>> ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." things move fast in the aoc generation. history is 2017. so for a little perspective, we are going to take you back 29 years. it was still the modern era, we still had air conditioning, was to let airl travel. 1990, america was different in some ways though, and here's one of them. in 1990, 2,245 people were murdered in the city of new york. that's the highest number ever recorded in any american city ever. it turned out to be the peak of the worst crime wave in our history. then rudy giuliani got elected mayor, policies changed in crime

began a very steep decline in new york. by 2001, the city of new york recorded just 649 murders, a remarkable change, really. michael bloomberg became mayor of new york the next year and made new york even safer. one of his main tools for doing that was a policy called stop and frisk. essentially it was this, the nypd stops suspicious looking people come up with a thought looked, ask them questions and sometimes search them for weapons and illegal drugs. not everyone liked it ever, but there's really no debate about how well it works. it worked well. by 2013, bloomberg's final year in office, new york city recorded just 333 murders total. all five boroughs for the year. it was officially america's safest city. it was all michael change. michael bloomberg was proud of that and he was proud of stop and frisk. >> today we have fewer guns, fewer shootings and fewer homicides. in fact, murders are 50% below

the level they were 12 years ago when we came into office. something no one thought possible back then. there is just no question that stop and frisk has saved countless lives and we know that most of those lives saved based on the statistics have been black and hispanic young men. just most, but the overwhelming majority have been in that category. again, that was just 2013. not that long ago. you may even remember 2013. but today, michael blumberg is trying to win the democratic nomination. you'd think thatnk a party that claims to care about poor people would reward anyone who makes low income neighborhoods safer, but no, they hate him for it. >> this is a policy that overwhelmingly put black boys, black men -- and latino men in prison which was seen as a civil rights violation. >> this is a mayor that provided over the administration that stopped and frisk every black latino and four-person ethical. >> the man who actually ran york

city kind of like oligarch and ultimately supported and defended stop and frisk policy that essentially mass incarcerated black and brown people. >> i have three words, stop and frisk. if that will be the thing that will be the problem for michael bloomberg. >> he still defends this policy of stop and frisk, which impacted families like mine. it was my cousins and my friends that were stopped on the new york city subway system and racially profiled and patted down. >> tucker: oh, yeah, . it affected alexandria ocasio-cortez's family. she grew up in westchester county, new york, in a town that is more than 90% white, but she's telling us it's racist. and amazingly, mike bloomberg seems to agree with her. last spring bloomberg blasted joe biden for his craven opening campaign. his apology to her where he begged forgiveness for every good idea he'd ever supported. now it's bloomberg's turn to do the very same. >> i got something important

really wrong. i didn't understand that back then. the full impact the stops were having on the black and latino communities. totally focused on saving lives, but as we know from a good intentions aren't good enough. back then, i was wrong. and i'mm sorry. >> tucker: sorry, he's saying in a hostage tape you just watched. i was focused on saving lives when i should have been affirming the self-esteem of teenagers who carry loaded blocks in public. that's what mike bloomberg just told you. that's what the democratic party is making him say. now the remarkable piece of this, almost stunning if you think about it, is that this very same michael bloomberg, the one who just watched apologize for stop and frisk is also the single most aggressive and freespending lobbyist for, wait for it, gun control in america. he would disarm suburbia tomorrow if you could come up less well america. and yet now he's telling her it was immoral for him to allow his own police department at the

nypd to take thousands of illegal firearms off the streets of new york. this iss confusing as hell. what's the reasoning here? there isn't any. policies like these, and many of them, popular now from allowing drug addicts to shoot up on the subway to coddling vagrants as the squad on the sidewalk outside her house. these policies only make sense when you understand and affect was the bigotry of the left. what the bigotry? well, they despise normal peopl people. law-abiding middle-class americans enrage them. if it makes your life better in some measurable way, they are opposed to it. sympathies are entirely entirely with the destroyers. bernie kerik was once the police commissioner of new york city. he seen the whole thing. from the 70s to present and he joins us time. mr. -caret thank you very much for coming on. did you ever think having a part presided over the single greatest drop in crime in american history that there would come a point where politicians would apologize for being part of that drop? >> what i think it is the

apology tour. when you run for president these days, that's what you do. and that's what he's doing. i think it's disturbing and especially for me, tucker. i wasn't only the police commissioner of new york city. when i started out as a cop in times square, i was in uniform and i'm with the plainclothes. i was in anti-crime unit under basic job in anti-crime, your inflamed stomach plainclothes, you run the city looking for guns, shot fired, burglaries in progress. any violent crime in progress, that's her job. and without stop for question and frisk we never be able to do that job. and i think bloomberg and others like him that now denounce the policy, i think they forget how it started under rudy giuliani and the crimest reductions, 65% reduction in violent crime between 1994 and 2002, a 70% reduction in homicide.

under rudy giuliani gunfire and i just think people forget how effective the policy was and look, i think one thing that people aren't -- they don't realize. bloomberg's apology may be because he over used the program. he over used the program. he had six times the amount of stop and frisk's that we did under the giuliani administration. so that may be a part of the problem. maybe that's it -- maybe it's his heartfelt, you know, apology is from abusing the program. >> tucker: it wouldn't surprise me but what does surprise me is the fact that michael bloomberg is the most aggressive gun-control promoter in the united states and still supports all kinds of authoritarian measures to keep themselves defending themselves. >> i honestly believe this is a guy that would take every gun.

>> tucker: so exactly. so here, new york city, the largest city in the country had the one gun-control program that aware of ever that has worked in america, and he's apologizing for it, but he still for grabbing guns from everybody else. how does this work back >> well, it doesn't work. it doesn't work. the policy was infected. it was the most effective tool in the new york city policee department. to take that will away -- listen, one more thing i want to focus on. it's not just stop and frisk. it's stop, question, and frisk. it gives you the ability -- talk to somebody and counter them, have a conversation with them. you don't frisk everybody stop, that's not necessary, but when a cop has an intuition or suspects somebody of being involved in a dangerous crime or violent crime or possession of a weapon, they have to have the ability to check that person out, because if they didn't, we have

thousands of more young black and brown kids in new york city dead over the last 25 years. >> tucker: you. this wouldn't affect alexandria ocasio-cortez, who grew up in an affluent suburb of westchester, but for the people who actually live in tough neighborhoods, i think that would have an effect. thanks so much for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you very >> tucker: the left of us to best offensive because law and order isn't just directed against past policies. last week i was pressley in massachusetts unveiled her version of a green new deal, but this is for crime. it is a big plan. we can spend an hour talking about some of its provisions l include band life sentences, all life sentences. then the prosecution of minors as adults, okay. legalize prostitution. the criminal is the theft of "necessary goods." it even includes a provision for reparations based on skin color for good measure, though it's not clear what that has to do with justice, because of course the opposite -- and samuel is a former supreme court clerk and joins us today. thanks much for coming on.

this is a big proposal. some of it probably is not crazy. a lot of it is crazy. hard to generalize about it but let's just take a couple issues because i think they're interesting. one is decriminalizing.ho so how can we be against human trafficking, which is really another word or abetting, and yet decriminalize. the idea that women are because they want to be, because they think it's like a great deal for women? what is the idea? >> you don't necessarily believe that. some people do think that i think is reasonable disagreement about the extent to which anybody is really free when they're selling their labor under capitalism. that's kind of a side issue, but what you can ask is the best way to do something about human trafficking to criminalize the people were being traffic in what they're doing, or do you want to go at it at a different level and to me it actually makes a great deal of sense to say if you're the person being traffic, we don't want to make your lifece worse, would like to help you, not threaten you with jail. we want to go after the people

like epstein and trump and the clintons and everybody else was actually doing the trafficking. >> or the. here's the bottom line principal, which is always's tr. you criminal at something you get less of it. if something should justst on principal but the truth is i'm a cirrhosis test went way down under prohibition. nobody wants to say that, but it's real. so if you legalize and you legalize key people camping on the sidewalk, you get a lot more of it. that affects the lives of any of else.n what about their rights i guess is my question. >> well, i'm not sure you get a lot more -- of course are going to have -- every policy is goin to have some theft but the question you have to ask is putting 70 and a prison, dungeon, that's a big, big idea. that's a big intervention and you have to ask -- say you've got something sleeping on the street or in public because they don't have anywhere else to go to ther bathroom. i agree if you try to put those people in jail, you may get a little less of it, but you have to ask, is that really the way you want to solve public and not having any place to go the bathroom? >> it all depends.

let's say i live -- if people are camped out on my sidewalk, in front of my front door and i got little kids -- i have rights here too, so having the ability to say, you know what, go do it somewhere else, you can't do it here. i worked hard for this house, buzz off, lead, your freaking my kids out. a normal society recognizes the right of a person to say those things come up the left doesn't because they cite holy with the deviants. 100% of the time. the person who gives the finger to society that tries to tear down with the rest of us have built, they are on his side every time. >> i don't know about that. i do think it's not such deviant behavior -- >> tucker: -- >> i agree with one thing he said, which is that we can't have a society for which a street as normal -- hey, a lot of people just have to go to the bathroom on the sidewalk because they don't have any other place to do it. i just don't think the right answer is we are going to put you in jail and you can go to the bathroom there. that's a solution. it's just not a very good one, nor particularly kind. >> tucker: what i'm arguing is that when you put to criminalist -- when you decriminalize theft, as they have in california, what you're

basically saying is the chaos that the tech oligarchy has given us is like totally normal and okay and if you complain about it you're against civil rights when in fact you can find about your just a normal person who wants to live in an orderly clean society. >> what, you're going to criminalist the theft of bright? you don't like les miserables? what are you talking about? the tech guys are the one who hate the new san francisco d.a. the most. if the reason to love him if there ever was one. >> tucker: the tech guys created the feudal society that we are watching destroy thathe city. great to see her tonight, thanks so much. >> nice to see you,at thanks. >> tucker: the dramatic lurch to the left on pick an issue, crime, everything else, seems to have even barack obama, who started it, worried. on friday, obama warned a room full of liberal that most voters out there actually don't want a radical revolution in america. watch this. >> we are bold in our vision. we also have to be -- they like

saying things, but the average american doesn't think that we have to completely tired on the system and remake it. and i think it's a port for us not to lose sight of that. >> tucker: it now, you may have forgotten, but barack obama won to elections in a row, pretty comfortable both times. now he's too far right to get the democratic nomination. that's not speculation, it's literally true. the parties cadre of red guards would not happen. case in point, congressman ilhan omar tweeted this on saturday. "if being too far left -- hashtag, illiterate -- means believing health care as a human right, in future generations should live in a healthy plan. all student should be canceled. the minimum wage of a $50, lives depend on gun reform and families don't -- count me in! , arm flexing emoji. joins us tonight. are you for the exclamation space my point in arm flexing

emoji? does not describe your feelings on the subject? >> i think in this case ilhan omar is really not in the mainstream of the democratic party. it's true the democrats dobl wat health care, which the said administration is going to court to try to basically make sure tens of millions who got it thanks to the affordable care act won't have it. democrats do want to do something about gun violence, which is it administration absolutely would rather not. tak about. et cetera. but the way she sprang this issue is kind of crazy. it ignores the that she is in the majority because 40 democrats beat republicans in red districts as moderates. former military people, former intelligence people. >> tucker: no, i got it. you guys when all the -- >> that's why she -- >> tucker: all the cia analysts. >> she should thank your lucky stars that people like obama are saying the message that he has. >> tucker: let me ask you, being for health care and against gun violence is like being for puppies and child -- >> not today. >> tucker: gun violence, no one is for it.

>> for future. >> tucker: writes. what percentage f of americans s forgiving unrestricted free health care to illegal immigrants cannot speak i think that's small. my candidate, michael bennet, opposed it. >> tucker: i never even heard of michael bennet, with some respect. i'm just kidding. he's office with the congressman for new mexico. >> i will say this. what you're saying was true about caravans. it's what opponents to john bel edwards and andy bashir ran on. it's what donald trump has had every rally around and in 2018 and this year, that was a losing message. what you're trying to suggest. >> tucker: sold john bel edwards, who i'm just being totally honest -- >> i understand what he is on abortion. >> tucker: i would have voted for them, and i will tell you why. because on abortion on the right to self-defense, he's 100%. only democrats. pro-life and pro-gun and so am amen. he's the opposite of every person, including michael bennet, whoever the guy is from mexico, or colorado.

he is the opposite of every democrat running for president. every single one and you couldn't run for president with his -- >> louisiana is the opposite -- >> tucker: it is. but you invoked his name. bashir two in kentucky. >> the bashir is anywhere close to -- kentucky is a different state and the fact of the matter is again, the biggest caucus in the house democratic caucus is of no democrats, 103. dwarfing the progressive caucus. >> tucker: last question, and i don't mean to be mean to youat because i know actually we probably agree on some of the stuff, but why -- if what you're saying is true, is there no leading presidential -- top three president candidate who's espousing those beliefs, there isn't? >> if you add up what biden and buttigieg and other moderates -- look -- >> tucker: they are for -- >> patrick are getting into this race because they think there needs to be greater voice to the moderate point of view. great. and there will be thanks to them. we will see how far they go, but the fact is, i cannot put as much weight as you do on the sanders-warren wing carrying the

day. i think frankly bernie sanders brought hillary clinton down with him because he badmouth her to the end and his supporters didn't vote. >> tucker: ! >> but i tend to think with the democratic voters in swing states want is more moderate. and somebody who's going to work with republicans. >> tucker: to think it's weird that the moderate -- i mean, i was at bodies moderately temperament appeared kind of a friendly guy, but he's forgiven unlimited free health care for illegal aliens. >> he was a liberal democrat when he was a senator from delaware. i agree witheg that and it shows how far things have moved. by today's standards -- >> tucker: revolution is coming, richard, you're in trouble! welcome a figure anytime. nbc news helps protect jeffrey epstein's friends from scrutiny. why is the press so eager to ignore one of the biggest scandals of the past century? it's a really interesting question. we are going to raise it again. then, has kanye west become and probably one of top christian evangelists? didn't ever think you'd say that, did you, could be true. that's all ahead. ♪ - do you have a box of video tapes, film reels, or photos,

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♪ >> tucker: we are about 20 years jeffrey epstein avoided any serious punishment for abusing young girls, a lot of them apparently. many, many, many. even though his behavior was an open secret. he got away with it because he was affluent and he had many powerful friends like bill clinton. even after his suicide we are still uncovering what went on. we still only know a fraction but here's part of what we know. prince andrew, member of course of the british royal family was very close to epstein during the period were he was abusing underage girls. over the weekend the prince give a thoroughly bizarre interview, something you really have to see

to believe to the bbc and which, among other things, he summarized epstein decades of abuse, reporting now is unbecoming. for the regret the fact that he has quite obviously conducted himself in a manner unbecoming? yes. >> unbecoming. it was a sex offender varied >> i'm sorry. i'm being polite. >> tucker: as soon as we are off -- as soon as sean is done, all things on believable. the prince also said he did not regret being close to epstein. watch. >> do you regret that new mexico yes. >> do regret the whole friendship with epstein? >> now, still not. the reason being is that the people that i met and the opportunities that i was given to learn either by him or because of him.

>> tucker: there's a lot of learning, a lot of teaching going on jeffrey epstein's l ho house. even the photographs show the prince with his arm around the waist of an epstein accuser, the prince says it wasn't him. it was probably fake. >> nobody can prove whether or not that photograph has been doctored, but i don't recollect that photograph ever being taken. >> and you don't recollect havingei your hand around her waist? >> tucker: welcome one of the reasons thatr: prince andrew has avoided answering the most basic questions for so long, of course, is because of the behavior of the newson media. very much including abc news in his country. the suppressed reporting into the epstein's candle apparently under pressure from the royal family. just yesterday, houseer majority leader kevin mccarthy said a letter to abc news demanding answers in the story. webmaster has been followed since the beginning, seen a variety correspondent at variety and she joins us tonight.

elizabeth, thanks for coming on. what is this letter from the house minority leader say? >> he is demanding -- he's demanding answers from abc. so he said why do you not err this interview, which any robot, she of course was caught on a hot mic. we spoke about that a few weeks ago,ob tucker, where she said tt she had an accuser of jeffrey epstein. she said she had all the goods, it was ready for o air. of course at the time abc said it was not ready for air, so in this letter he's asking why was this hidden and will you send this interview to congress so that we can see it? he's asking for all of the answers to those many, many questions and he even goes as far to say that over the years since this interview, conducted, if the interview data air it could have possibly prevented more underage women from being sexually traffic. >> tucker: this is a major development. i think. has abc responded? >> i have not.

so i specked abc, tucker. they are declining comment, but what i will tell you, because of course at the time when any robust video leaked, abc said it was not ready for air and they also pointed out we have not shied away from covering the jeffrey epstein saga. i have to tell you, this morning of course i tuned into "good morning america." they did cover the prince andrew interview at length. they spent about 10 minutes on it, so they weren't shying away from covering that now. which i think was a very clear obvious step to say, we are covered. >> tucker: once aided jeffrey epstein's house. have addressed that on the air? have not addressed that on the air. this morning a robot, she was not the one to present the story. i guess the codefendant a little awkward, you know, but i want to get back to prince andrews interview. you were just going for some of the most bizarre moments. it was one after the other. it's perplexing how this even happened. the interview actually occurred

and buckingham palace. which signalsn that the cleaned he wenteems that through absolutely no coaching, he didn't even mention any of the victims. one of the most bizarre parts though is when he said that he has a medical condition where he cannot sweat because the victim had mentioned -- in many of her accusations she said that at ona nightclub with him in london and that he was sweating, so he's going as far to come up with these bizarre, bizarre excuses. another thing that you brought up, he said that he doesn't even know this woman and of course there's that infamous photo with his arm around her. he says it's photoshopped. i mean, it's like he's hanging out with laurie locklin or something, it's bizarre what he's been saying. >> tucker: [laughs] can't sweat. a medical condition. that's what was learned. and for yourself, bbc. on our facebook page. thanks much for that. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: there is an investigation into how exactly jeffrey epstein died while in custody of a manhattan prison.

according to reports, federal charges are imminent against the guards who are supposed to be guarding jeffrey epstein. reportedly the guards have already declined up radial offer. gavin is a former nypd officer enjoys a center. thanks so much for coming on. >> thanks for having me, tucker. speeone's of these guards, even the mayor of new york, why think is usually kind of out of it, bill de blasio waiting and seemed to kind of attack these guards. tell us what charges they may be facing and what it means that they declined a plea deal. >> well,le if they are facing charges it would be for failing to officially performg their duties as correction officers. they are required to make tours at frequent intervals, i believe in in the special housing area every half hour. but it could be a fishing expedition on the part of the feds too because i think if they haded enough evidence to make te arrest they probably would have color these officers already and if their attorneys are telling them not to take the plea deal, that's got to be something more it. if the cameras weren't working, that's to their advantage. they can say look, we made our tours every half hour. the t cameras aren't working. unless they're going to

interview inmates and they're going to take the words of inmates and if the inmates can say what the officers were sleeping with the officers were making their required tours of inspection, it all depends. on what the investigation shows. >> tucker:ed so you have a very high-profile prisoner whose life has apparently been threatened before the purported suicide. he was quoted as saying hed feared for his life. how strange is it in your view that there were no cameras trained on his seller in the hallway outside? >> is patently outrageous. you have a special housing area and he is arguably the most high-profile pretrial detainee in federal bop history. the feds messed this up from the onset. initially this individual, mr. epstein, was placed in a cell with nicholas or ted lyons, who is a former briarcliff manor was officer who was charging a cargo dome i quadruple myrtle. he was in protective custody as a police officer. he was taken out of protective custody he immediately received a wanton gratuitous beating to the point where they had to put

a metal plate in his orbital. so why would you put jeffrey epstein in a cell with this guy? jeffrey epstein, for all intents and purposes, a sex offender. he's a second time offender under going to put him in a cell with this guy? that didn't make any sense. and then to take them off of suicide watch. that doesn't make any sense at all. what he should have done -- what should have happened if he should've been taken to them in a civil hospital like bellevue where he could have been evaluated by a psychiatrist.tr and that didn't happen. so what do they do? they put him in a cell by himself, okay, and they put him on the floor with a correction officer who's not even a certified correction officer. and then you have michael baden, a world-renowned pathologist. he comes along, looks at jeffrey epstein, does his own independent autopsy and he's done -- she's been doing thisnd for 50 years. he's done over 20,000 autopsies and michael baden determines that the injuries that jeffrey epstein sustained are not consistent with suicide by hanging. but rather suicide by stranglin strangling.

so the only thing that i can think that might have happened is maybe the officers weren't doing their jobs. there were sleeping. maybe unknown individuals, esmates, officers, civilians, i don't know, went into jeffrey epstein's cell, strangle them and then put a ligature around his neck to make it seem like he was hung, like there was a hanging. what else could possibly have gone wrong there? >> tucker: under normal circumstances i would say ad, that's crazy, but under the circumstances are not going to say that because it's clearly not crazy. thanks so much for coming on tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank for having me. >> tucker: roger stone was convicted in federal court last week on seven felony charges stemming from a sense-closed russia collusion investigation. his main crime was lying to congress about who he had or had not spoken to about russia. by the time stone's trial began in washington, the larger scandal that ensnared him had long been debunked. nobody was talking about wikileaks anymore. nobody cared. and yet prosecutors continue zealously as if it were still 2017.

for lying about something that is now officially irrelevant, they argue that roger stone should spend up to 50 years in prison, effectively the rest of his natural life. at the very moment prosecutors are making that case that stone's misstatement ought to be a death penalty c offense, congressman adam schiff was busy lying to the rest of us about new things, some of which actually matter. schiff didn't seem worried about his line. he knew he would never be prosecuted for it. in washington, dishonesty is strictly a one-wayas offense. yet despite the obvious irony of all of this, roger stone was convicted anyway, and official washington shared. rod and hell they screamed on twitter, oblivious to karma, which by the way is real. what's interesting to the response to stone's case, both from the prosecutor's unconventional opinion makers on television, is how much harsher and outraged it was in anything that greeted convicted child molester jeffrey epstein. do you think george stephanopoulos would even consider having dinner at roger stone's house? of course not. if that would be immoral.

fbi officials apparently agree with that. remember what happened when roger stone was arrested earlier this year. dozens of federal agents with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, and a helicopter descended on his home in a middle-class part of fort lauderdale and ross to the 66-year-old and his wife from bed at rifle point. just to make sure the event inflicted maximum humiliation, the feds tipped off cnn, which was there to capture the whole thing live, which they did. that's how our government treated a man facing perjury charges. now, jeffrey epstein, by contrast, was accused of molesting at least 34 separate underage girls. how was he arrested? actually, that's a trick question. he wasn't arrested. according to "the new york times" account, prosecutors called jeffrey epstein's lawyer and politely asked him to turn himself in an amount politely did. nobody tipped off cnn. in fact, just the opposite happened. authorities try to keep the whole thing secret in order to preserve jeffrey epstein's

dignity. one prosecutor wrote to epstein's attorney, jay lefkowitz, assuring him that in order to "avoid the press, she could "file the charge in district court in miami which should hopefully cut the press coverage significantly." that's pretty thoughtful treatment for a child molester. ultimately, epstein got a plea deal in which all federal charges against him were dropped, all of them. the arrangement was kept secret from epstein's victims, so they wouldn't be able to complain about it or contest that agreement in court. epstein received just 18 months. but instead of being sent to state prison like most sex offenders in florida, hein served as term in a private wing of the palm beach county stockade. it was a massive improvement over ordinary lockup. but even that wasn't lenient enough for jeffrey epstein. after just three and a half months in custody, epstein was freed on work release. that means he was able to leave the grounds for 12 hours a day, six days a week. sex offenders are not, by role,

allowed to get work release. they are ineligible for it. but authorities gave it to epstein anyway. apparently they liked him. le authorities don't like roger stone. he did something worse than molesting children. he mocks the people in charge and then helps get donald trump elected president. for that, roger stone is likely to die in prison. just so you know the rules in this country. mayor pete buttigieg of a small city in the midwest is having a ton of success with affluent donors onto wall street. african-american voters don't like him though, at least according to the numbers. he's trying to win them over. how's that going so far? the hilarious results after the break. ♪

>> tucker: at wall street liberals love mayor pete buttigieg, so do our tech titans. he is leading the polls in iowa and he surging in new hampshire, butew if he wants to become the presidential nominee of the democratic party, buttigieg is have to expand the

base, as they say. he is going to have to win over african-american voters, among others. so he's trying. it's not goings well. >> i doubt you're going to get it. do your job just so you can have a moral compass when you leave this place. >> thank you so much. >> thank you, but to end up -- give the people that are racist off the streets. >> [inaudible] >> i'm not asking for your vote. >> you ain't gonna get it eithe either. >> tucker: so they are screaming at people -- pete buttigieg, thank you, thank you for your question, which isn't really a question, it's more like a series of explants, but it's a problem is the bottom line, obviously a problem, so to fix this problem buttigieg has released something called a douglas plan is in frederick douglass, for achieving racial harmony of sorts. the plan was illustrated with the photograph of a black woman and her child. the problem is the picture was of people in kenya, not the

united states. and then last week, buttigieg released a list of 400 black south carolinians he claims have endorsed him in his douglas plan. problem? a lot of the people in the list appeared to be surprised that thereer there and in the most hilarious detail of the year so far, most half of them are actually white. mark steyn is an author and columnist, he [laughs] i just couldn't resist. i don't really know what to say about it. what do you make of it, mark steyn? >> while the whole democrat theory of elections in the modern era is that if you put together the rainbow coalition and you bring them all together, they'll outvote all the racists on the republican side. and also their interests don't coincide in the whole point about the rainbow coalition's are actually trying to find a candidate who appeals to w white liberals, and i think democrats want somebody -- somebody with identity politics points, but of

a moderate character. if that's how obama ran in 2008. >> tucker: so what this is -- candidates like this aren't actually trying to appeal to black churchgoers and suck on. >> no. >> tucker: bill of the group they're trying to appeal to his new yorker subscribers. guilty white liberals like themselves. >> right. and that's why he's surging. he says whatever it is, 25% in iowa, and he's at 0% in south carolina. you can't actually detect where 60% of the democrat electorate is black. you can't find a vote -- he's got less support than marianne williamson. i didn't even know she was still in the race until they took this fall. >> tucker: [laughs] >> and what's fascinating -- you look, what's the difference between 25% in iowa and 0% in south carolina and is "new york times" columnist the other day wrote this long column saying that it's totally racist ofn white liberals to suggest that the lack of support for

mayor pete in south carolina is because of blackla homophobia. i'm not a democrat voter. so i don't have a dog in this fight, but it does suggest that actually aligning all the identity politics' points is quite tricky. love someone -- they're not interested in elizabeth warren,r because every other country has had a female prime minister, female president, been there, doneem that, but they really wod like the first president does get white liberal juices going. unfortunately, if they were to win iowa and new hampshire, he would then depress black turnout in the way that hillary clinton did in 2016 and cost democrats the election. >> tucker: i continue to believe the really controversial thing about pete buttigieg is that he was a mckinsey consultant. and i would argue that's more morally offensive than anything else is done, by far. >> well, i quite like the fact that -- the only other guy with

this name that i've ever run across was from malta, so i quite like the idea of a maltese american president. the maltese american parade down fifth avenue on maltese american day is actually one of the smallest -- >> tucker: [laughs] i know! >> and i do believe -- yeah. hillary is blaming her defeat on maltese content farmers when she's had a couple of drinks and can't remember macedonia. >> tucker: [laughs] so good. mark steyn, great to see you as always, thank you. >> thanks a lot, tucker. >> tucker: for years, kanye west has gone by many names. he is one of america's most popular entertainers no matter what your calling him. all of a sudden it looks like one of this country's top question evangelist. is this real? is kanye the christian authentic and if it is, what does it mean for this country? that's next. ♪

♪ >> tucker: kanye west keeps evolving or appearing to anyway. for years west has been one of the most popular musicians o in this country. then lester you remember he went to the white house and became an unlikely political pundit, kind of pro-trump actually. now he appears to have become a christian evangelist. this fall kanye west released a christian album called as lord. then sunday yesterday he appeared before 14,000 people at joel o'steen liquid church. >> i brought this muhammad ali type of i, i, me me me which nebuchadnezzar also had when he said look at all of this and god said, over real and had him out there in the fields for several years. he went crazy. and when he gave it back to god,

god gave him his mind back and i feel very akin that. now the greatest artist that god has ever created is now working fore him. [applause] >> tucker: so what to make of all of this? while bob woodson's founder of the woodson center and a frequent guest on the show. always happy to have them, particularly semi, thanks for coming on. >> please to be here. >> tucker: subquestion, what you make of this? because i think someone said that god doesn't always use the capable. he uses those who are called and make them capable. >> tucker: yes. >> and i think that's the case with kanye west. kanye is a broken person. he acknowledges the mistakes in his life. the missteps, but as a consequence, he's come to christ and christ -- if you look at the bible, it's just replete with people who are broken. but he uses them as witnesses to others, the transformation and redemption are possible and that's why young blacks are flocking to him in droves.

several young blacks at that service said they had never been in a a a church before until thy heard kanye west, and so i think he has a very important role to play in challenging the race grievance industry that is wreaking havoc in the black community, and he's calling blacks to be self responsible, as dr. king said, to reach down into your soul and sign your own emancipation proclamation and not wait for white people to liberate you, and so his message is really resonating well in the community and like i said, it's a brash stomach breath of fresh air for those of us who have been preaching for decades that the salvation of black america has to come internally and not externally. >> tucker: so you said we made a mistake in calling his album is lord, "jesus is king" of course. but this christian evangelism you think is sincere, bottom line, in his case?

>> i think it sincere but who questions anyone's t motivation? i'm more concerned about the actions that someone takes, not what their motivation is. there's a lot of people who profess to be christian. and they are horrible. >> tucker: [laughs] it's a very smart point! what you care about it think is the new testament says the fruits. >> also i believe if you look in the bible, saul was one time an assassin of his own people. >> tucker: yes. >> and that he had a damascus experience and he became paul. suppose every time he was speaking they said i knew you used to be solved. we have to accept kanye as he is, the fact that the young people in the inner-city who know a phony when they see it are flockinghe to him, because there is such a thirst for a redemptive spirit and a redemptive witness and kanye, he admits to being in institutions

for mental problems. he acknowledged all of his brokenness. >> tucker: he doesn't hide anything. that is compelling. bob woodson for joining us tonight. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: six years where getting new and kind of shocking information about another murdr that one of the boston marathon bombers may have participated i in. details ahead. ♪ - 10 years ago, we started legacybox.

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♪ >> tucker: there are new andhe honestly kind of shocking developments in the past of one of the boston marathon bombers. trace gallagher is on the story for us tonight. >> hey, tucker. this information coming out tonight because he is challenging his conviction and sentencing for his part in the boston marathon bombing. he claims his violent or domineering over older brother is the one who pushed him into taking part in the attack. he died during a shoot-out with police a few days after the bostond bombing. we are the new he and his friend were suspects in a triple murder two years before the marathon

bombing. but newly unsealed documents show that a month after the boston bombings, his friend, who was also killed by law enforcement, gives specific details about the triple homicide, saying they bound, beat, and slit the throats of three young men in massachusetts. went on to say they spent more than an hour trying to clean up the scene, but experts point out, they were clearly -- clear links between tsarnaev and the murders of the police are further look to make games i'm on gang activity, even though ts already a bright light on the fbi's radar. in fact, in 2011, russia or in the fbi that tsarnaev appeared to be radicalizing and former fbi robert mueller also agreed that prior to the boston bombing, tsarnaev came to the attention of the fbi on at least two occasions. but no action was taken. the new information about the triple murder begs the question again, could the boston bombings have been prevented?

tucker. >> tucker: if we had only, and irony of ironies, listened to russia. trace gallagher, thank you. we were back, tomorrow night, 8:00. the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink. good night from washington. prepare yourself. sean hannity is next. >> sean: tucker, great show as always. tonight, look at this number, it will go fast. 350 mondays until the presidential election. we have a brand-new speech from the attorney general of the united states, bill barr. it is sending shock waves through the washington swamp for good reason. this is a preview of coming attractions. this is a powerful statement. take a look. >> immediately after president trump won the election, opponents inaugurated what they called the resistance. and they rallied around and asked listed strategy of using every tool and maneuver to saboe