we are out of time. great for you to join us and to see these guys around the table. see you next sunday when next revolution will be televised. ♪ >> previously on scandalous, ruby ridge. >> i remember hearing gunshots. >> [inaudible] >> you have a hit marshall, dead boy and a family in this cabin. >> rules of engagement say they should not use force against armed person. >> they started this [inaudible] >> unfortunately the kid is

dead. >> it kept mushrooming and became more surreal. >> randy weaver walks down the mountain hand-in-hand with his daughters and into the handcuffs of a federal government. >> it occurred to me at that point ruby ridge would not be the icon in american history. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> from that point it was decided we would get pulled back to iowa and live with my grandparents. i was adamant the whole time i did not want to be separated from my dad, i did not want to leave idaho and lose another family member essentially which i felt leaving idaho would be losing another family member.

>> federal agents tried to arrest white supremacist randy weaver for illegal gun sales. the competition in northern idaho turned into a bloodied ten-day siege. >> the siege resulted in the death of randy weaver's wife vicki, 14 -year-old son sam and a u.s. marshal. >> by the fall of 1992 randy weaver was in custody facing a long list of charges, including selling sawed-off shotguns and accessory to the murder of deputy u.s. marshal william deacon friend kevin harris was charged with that murder. both men pleaded not guilty. >> it was about 5:00 o'clock and my receptionist at our law firm gets on and says you've got a phone call and i hear this big booming voice and says this is jerry spence,. >> jerry spence was a legendary

trial lawyer from riverton, wyoming who earned fame and fortune taking on such cases as the estate of nuclear industry whistleblower karen liquid and former philippines first lady - who was charged with racketeering in new york. spence had never lost a criminal trial. would he risk that record for a white separatist who thought his own case unwinnable had no money to pay? >> jerry come to town and wants to go see weaver. we go to the jail and you hear sort of these chains shuffling and incomes this little guy and he is like 5'6", 5'7" and look like he weighs about 100 pounds. he is haggard looking. he is pale. his eyes are red. his hair has been cut short. he looks like a prisoner of war. he looks at us and says, they killed my boy.

they killed my wife. they shot me in the back. i think jerry was so moved that he was already willing to give up all this stuff that had been in the newspapers that he was racist and dangerous and lived in a compound. >> spence along with idaho defense attorney chuck peterson discussed the case. >> i said are you in and he sa said, let me tell you something. you ain't never going to make a dime of this and i will never make a dime but i would pay money to represent this man. jerry's position was look, if we will defend this man and he does not have the right to hold these strange, extremist views then what about our views and the things that we believe in? >> this is told in a way the defendants have been charged and prosecuted. >> jerry spence was the most ideal person at that point in our history to represent randy

weaver but his most difficult task in this case was to humanize randy to remind the jury that this is one of them whose civil liberties were egregiously violated by the government and entitled to the same constitutional protections as they are, no matter what his political views may be. >> the federal government had as much to fear from a public trial as the men who were prosecuting britt as jury selection approached the prosecution ramped up the pressure on weaver and harris by adding federal conspiracy charges against the two. >> is there a basis to charges people with any crime? instead of permitting the court to determine them they went to a secret grand jury and came back with another indictment. >> the government likes conspiracy. the government labs conspiracy because it is the easiest to prove. you only need to prove an agreement between two or more people and they step by either or any of them in furtherance of the agreement and that is the government's attitude.

>> when the first accounts in the federal indictment after the shootings was that randy weaver was conspiring to have a violent conflict with the u.s. government. >> it was a risky strategy to try before 12 jurors from the american northwest. >> part of the evidence was he moved this isolated mountaintop in northern idaho and that is not a good argument to make to an idaho jury because of everyone in idaho is a violent confrontation with the feds but it was typical of the profoundly flawed, if not dishonest justice of the case. >> 1600 miles away from the u.s. district court in boise, idaho situation was much the same contours of ruby ridge was slowly escalating at the branch davidian compound in waco, texas where i stayed up with a group leader, david karesh, had reached nearly 50 days. by easter sunday april 11 and army federal agents was assembling around the complex.

on april 13, 1993 back in idaho prosecutors delivered their opening arguments against weaver and harris. they insisted the two planned a confrontation with the u.s. government all along. >> this isolated mountaintop cabin was to be the final stand for the weaver family and that was the picture painted but they plan to produce a letter signed by the weavers including the children same whether we live or whether we die we will not obey your law. >> they decide they will keep a grand conspiracy case that is gigantic in scope and filled with opportunity and it played into our hands. >> the defense opening argument establish the thing that would be present at the trial. randy weaver just wanted to be left alone. >> what i heard is still listening for evidence that mr. weaver shot a gun at anybody. i am waiting for that testimony. >> by the sixth day of the trial, proceedings continued in the court went to recess. this was just in time for the jury to see another appalling fiasco involving federal law

enforcement. >> we come back and now all of a sudden on every tv screen all the news is about what's going on at waco. >> april 19, 1993 the fbi launched a teargas assault on the david karesh compound. >> waco was unfolding with the buildings at the compound now on fire so we had another situation or the government has got an individual whose holed up in his own compound who they are trying to arrest and so the parallels were pretty clear. >> for government agents and 76 branch davidians including 20 children and two pregnant women perished in the conflict. >> i was watching that on the tv and hearing the reports and bawling my eyes out. how can this happen again? how can this happen again? >> instantly waco joined ruby ridge as shorthand for federal lawn force meant overzealous and incompetent. it was impossible to believe the texas tragedy would not be felt inside the boise courthouse.

♪

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♪ >> the dark paradox of the ruby ridge saga is that randy weaver brought his family to this remote corner of idaho to be as far away from modern american society, culture and the government as possible. it is only by dropping off the grid that the weavers appeared on the government's radar.

the first prosecution witness told of how that happened. an informant for the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms named gus got weaver to make and sell him to illegal sawed-off shotguns. >> the gun charge is important because it set the tone, i figure, for how the jury views randy right from the very beginning. he can't just be seen some guy who is out selling firearms and guns because that plays into the governments conspiracy theory that these guys are all out arming themselves so they can go to battle against the government because if that is the case we will lose. >> on cross-examination the defense argued that goss entrapped weaver. >> this case is about how the government set up to destroy this guy. that was this theory and the theme we argued from the beginning so it's an important piece of evidence. >> that impact was to turn jurors around and to get them so they began to like randy weaver. >> prosecutors to do the initial shootout between u.s. marshals

service and kevin harris and 14 -year-old sam weaver. after a volley of bullets sam and deputy deegan were found dead spirit prosecutors say one of the weaver family dogs found three marshals. they say kevin harris and 14 -year-old sammy weaver )-right-parenthesis the dog. they claim all three marshals identified themselves and that harris turned and shot marshall in the chest. the marshals returned fire and sammy weaver and his dog were killed and 11 day standoff began. >> but david, another member of the defense team, revealed the deputy william deegan had fired seven rounds during the initial shootout. undercutting the government's claim that he had been shot first. >> he questions how william deegan got off seven shots after being critically wounded to the point that is our might tear away from his body. devon says the government botched things terribly but can't admit it. >> weaver lead attorney jerry spence followed with a classic flourish by asking u.s. marshals on the witness stand to don the

military style uniform they wore on the date of the gunfight. >> on the conflict august 21, 19926 u.s. marshals were dressed in into outfits and wearing masks and had machine guns. >> the jury was i'm sure terrified as almost anybody but if you've seen what these guys look like and add to that yelling, screaming and ordinary fear and the sounds of gunfire. you have a terrifying situation which might not have been perceived truly and adequately without this demonstration. >> the biggest bombshell came during the testimony of fbi sniper who should not randy weaver's wife vicki through their cabin door as she held her infant daughter. he told the jury he did not see vicki behind the cabin door when firing at the gun toting kevin harris. >> he claimed he opened fire to protect his fellow agents and killed vicki weaver and what the fbi called a tragic accident. >> the jury learned he was authorized to take a shot under

secret rules of engagement hastily drafted by fbi officials on the plane to idaho. >> federal government was under the assumption that they are were pinned down and teams on the ground were given specific rules of engagement. shoot if you see anyone armed. >> people saw on the tv every morning the coverage of this army attacking this family on a ridge and the more they heard about it the less they liked it. then the child comes around and you find out that the government gave them order to go up and kill any armed person. >> and other devastating revelation the judge to recall the man weeks later. >> the assistant u.s. attorney who is handling the case walk over to me and takes a manila envelope down and puts it in front of me and says we should have had this. >> inside the envelope, notes from an fbi interview plus a cyprus sketch of two heads crouching below the cabin door. >> he says i never would've taken that shot if i known she was there and yet when he draws

that that's what he draws. >> fbi sent a package via mail. >> this claim is crazy or even then it possibly could of thought. knowing they have this and they sent it by fourth class mail so we would never get it in time to cross-examine him. >> pressed on the drawing he claimed he had said the plea sketched where he thought sarah and randy weaver must have been when firing at kevin harris and did not see vicki behind the cabin door when he unwittingly shot her but to weaver's defense team he was only one in the string of dozen witnesses who made the prosecution's case grow weaker. >> we used to say please, please, put on another witness. every time you put date witness on it gives us a chance to tell our story. >> after eight weeks the prosecution rested and was now up to the defefefefef i wanted my hepatitis c gone. i put off treating mine. epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. whatever your type, epclusa could be your kind of cure. i just found out about mine.

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michael jordan says i loved kobe, he was like a little brother to me. he was a fierce competitor. kobe bryant was 41 years old. >> june 15, 1993 after the prosecution had called over 50 witnesses for their case against randy weaver and kevin harris defense attorney jerry spence made a high-stakes gamble. the defense would not call a single witness. >> it is the riskiest thing you could do but an experienced criminal defense trial lawyer like jerry spence knows in his gut whether or not the government has proved their case but quite frankly, he demolished the government so aggressively on cross-examination he put the government on trial and diverted their concentration from the

behavior of his defendant to the behavior of the government. >> the stunning announcement meant the case would move immediately to closing arguments. chris spence gable and leslie to the jury is. >> he showed the monstrosity of the governments behavior on one hand and the incompetence of the government's behavior on the other. he projected to the jury the bad people here were not in this courtroom and the innocent one is sitting right there in front of you. >> june 16, 1993 the case was handed to the jury. inside the jury room the tension was palpable as jurors poured over weeks of testimony, documents and evidence and by july the deliberations had reached a record length. >> this is the longest wait for a jury verdict in idaho history, 20 days. there's nothing like sitting around for 20 days one will happen. >> it was all of tension for 20 days of the jury deliberations. >> july 8, 1993 the jury acquitted randy weaver and kevin

harris a murder and conspiracy. the jury also determined that weaver had been entrapped by the atf on the initial gun case. clearing him on federal weapons charges. weaver was found guilty of only one charge, failure to appear in court. >> beds lose big was a banner headline in the local paper after the jury verdict came back and it was a decisive defeat for the government. >> for the defense team the verdict brought vindication. >> randy weaver could count on those 12 idaho citizens who follow the law, not rules of engagement and drafted at 30000 feet applying from washington dc. >> was a triumph for the jury system. these are people use to living on their own and you federal agents coming in and acting like they are above the law well, they were not above the jury. >> the feds were wrong but that's why the verdict came out the way they did. >> the government and the united states marshals service the

verdict was devastating. >> deputy marshal was killed in a line of duty and the person that did it walk out the door. our system is put together with the jury and we totally disagree with it but we respect it. that is the rule of law. >> december 1993 randy weaver was released from federal custody. >> i go see randy right away at the jail and it is the most joyous occasion i think i will probably ever have had. >> you lose your son and your wife and i don't know how anything can be more dramatic. >> now weaver is free to go into build a future for what is left of his family. >> i will go back to iowa and hug my babies and hopefully someday i'd like to get in the country and maybe get a ranch with chickens and dogs. >> after living idaho randy returned to iowa, the state he left for ruby ridge ten years before. >> we met him in the airport and

i remember being so relieved and crying and it was so good to have him home. it was closer on the time i graduated. he got home and i moved on and started my own life so it was a big thing grade i was happy to have him back. >> randy weaver had not spoken a word during his trial but soon he would have a chance to tell the world his side of the story.

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♪ >> in the summer of 1995 an internal fbi report accused five high ranking bureau officials of trying to cover-up the extent of the ruby ridge debacle. >> those charges involve destruction of documents about controversial rules of engagement that instructed fbi sniper teams in ruby ridge the

deadly force can and should be used. >> the justice department has acknowledged ruby ridge was handled incorrectly. by federal agents have been suspended in a federal criminal investigation is underway. >> that same summer the department of justice announced a settlement with the weaver family. >> they settled a civil suit for $3.1 million, essentially one lane dollars for each of the children for the loss of their mother and for the loss of their brother and then $100,000 to randy and that money then ultimately provides for the family something going forward. >> but while the feds denied wrongdoing or liability in the case members of congress, senate judiciary committee were not willing to let them off the hook. >> senators wanted to look at what was the mistakes were made and who should be held culpable and what you should learn from it. >> there is a cloud hanging over the fbi and a cloud hanging over the garment of justice and.

>> revolve again from the delano took the lead. >> it is our response will be of the congress of the united states to have hearings and we are the proper institution to undertake those hearings. >> in the fall of 95 i went back to washington to cover the two week long hearing in front of the senate judiciary committee that looked into what led up to ruby ridge. >> on september 6, 1995 the senate subcommittee took the floor. >> the subcommittee this morning opened hearings on what happened at ruby ridge idaho. >> charlie before 9:00 a.m. the subcommittee called its first witnesses, randy and sarah weaver. >> if i hadn't to do over again knowing what i know now i would make different choices. i would come down from the mountain for the court appearance and i would not have allowed the deceitful, lying conmen working for atf to push me from three months to make up the shod off shotgun but i would not allow myself to be kept in a weak moment when my family knew money and i would not let my

fears and the fears of my family keep me from coming down. i wrongs did not cause federal agents to commit crimes. nothing i did cause federal agents to violate the constitution of the united states. >> it was intimating to be on the senate floor and be questioned about the door and the bullet hole and where my mom was standing and how the curtains were. that was very hard. if i had taken one more stop he would have gotten all three of us but i was also thankful that they were wanting to know and that they were willing to listen. that was huge. >> the governments witnesses pushed back. >> it was weaver's responsibility to resolve this matter and he did not. for 18 months at the marshall service attempted to negotiate with weaver in good faith. >> there is one person to blame. randy weaver. he needed to show up in court good wife to the marshall service go to such efforts to apprehend randy weaver?

we didn't want to get involved in any situation where his kids were involved and it still happened. >> you had horrible mistakes made by weaver and mistakes in judgment made by law enforcement and trying to capture him. i think there was saving a face by federal law enforcement because of their inability to capture him brought embarrassment to the marshall service and government in general. >> there were no saving face when the fbi was confronted with its scandalous rules of engagement that led to the death of vicki weaver. >> we want to know what law enforcement but they knew to justify that kind of course. there are major questions. >> senator specter from pencil vania was trying to determine the issue with the rules of engagement and the people he called were dancing around how it happened and who did it, said what to whom. >> and no time did i ever prove that language that appears in the proposed operations plan. >> a number of the senators felt

their witnesses were using misleading or testifying falsely. >> i believe it's embarrassing that we cannot even determine who approved rules of engagement that were drafted in fbi headquarters. >> senator, i think it is embarrassing but it's embarrassing that we have to come and testify here about that failure. i believe there was a failure to properly communicate. >> the director was the final witness justify in october 1995. >> ruby ridge has become synonymous with tragedy, given the depth of the united states marshal, a young boy and a boy's mother. it is also become synonymous with the exaggerated application federal law enforcement. both conclusions seem justified. >> following the testimony the fbi announced a new policy on the use of deadly force. >> under the new policy agents may use deadly force only when they have a reasonable belief that they or others are in imminent danger of serious injury or death.

they must also give a verbal warning of intent to fire. >> the bureau also created the critical incident response group to better respond to potentially dangerous standoffs. >> our government and the people we empower and federal agencies is an evolving process. they like us are human and make mistakes and clearly made mistakes at ruby ridge and they learn from those mistakes. >> the torment of justice called the new policy change the true legacy of ruby ridge meanwhile, federal criminal investigation continues to determine if any of the agents acted illegally during the deadly standoff that has scarred the reputation of federal law enforcement. >> after 14 days of testimony from 62 witnesses the subcommittee released its final report on ruby ridge. among the findings while fbi sniper killing of vicki weaver was a tragic mistake the orders he were given were unconstitutional. the shooting of vicki weaver as she held her baby daughter the

report grimly stated, will haunt federal law-enforcement for years to come back to report is highly critical of the federal bureau of investigation for rules of engagement which were essentially stated shoot on sight of the use of deadly force in violation of the united states constitution. >> to their frustration lawmakers in the end cannot find out who actually approved those rules of engagement and a mystery unsolved to this day but one thing was perfectly clear according to the subcommittee. while both randy and law enforcement shooters once ability for the events quote, this country can tolerate mistakes made by people like randy weaver but we cannot accept serious errors made by federal law-enforcement agencies that needlessly result in human tragedy. that conclusion seemed obvious in retrospect and was the truth more completed, less than three

years after ruby ridge americans learned that fear of antigovernment violence were not overblown.

>> in 1988 a year before an undercover informant got randy weaver to make and saw sought up shotguns a 20 -year-old army

enlistee named timothy mcveigh was voraciously consuming antigovernment literature that urged a violent overthrow of the federal government. after serving in the gulf war he left the army into because heightening disgust with the federal government back home to upstate new york where he penned angry letters to the newspapers and public officials. in the summer of 1992 he traveled to michigan for long state with a like-minded army friend, terry nichols. their well-formed hatred of the federal government cap them glued to television coverage of ruby ridge paid one year later he traveled to waco to hand out literature among the throng of antigovernment activists protesting the siege of the branch davidian compound. >> this had become a little microcosm of a fracture in our society and in our civics. many of us in the united states were surprised by the level of antigovernment feeling under - >> a new study on white supremacist [inaudible] across

the country 800 so-called patriot organizations and 441 unauthorized militia. >> on the morning april 19, 1995 to 2 years to the day after the fatal siege in waco, texas timothy mcveigh drove his rented truck stock to the dangerous mix of fertilizer and diesel fuel to the basement garage of the alfred p federal building in downtown oklahoma city. at 9:02 a.m. the truck exploded killing 168 people including 19 children and remains, to this day, the worst domestic terror attack in american history. >> this was in the pre- terrorism days, certainly before 911 and no one knew lon foresman had had a great concept about real threats endangered posed by domestic terrorists. he mentioned that timothy mcveigh was inspired by the same vote, turner diaries back in 1985; is who albert is reading

the turner down diaries now and what evil, deadly acts are they plotting to carry out. >> 1997 timothy mcveigh would stand trial and ultimately be convicted of the attack. it wasn't until four years later in 2001 mcveigh would admit a motive of for the terrorist attack but prior to his execution by lethal injection mcveigh said quote, but the u.s. government did at waco and ruby ridge was a dirty. i gave dirty back to them at oklahoma city. >> one of the worst worst aftermath was that people like timothy mcveigh seized upon that government corruption cover-up and use that as an excuse to tear up their own terrorist acts. >> oklahoma city happen and that was crushing to me and then they tied waco and ruby ridge to oklahoma city and i was crushed again that life would be taken in our name in retaliation. for me the last thing i ever

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>> after randy weaver's arrest the weaver family left ruby ridge far behind. the cabin they once called home began to deteriorate in the north idaho mountains. back in washington dc the impact of ruby ridge was still being felt by the fbi. employees were undergoing an investigation in 1986. this was over allegations of covering up documents related to the standoff. >> it was obvious early on documents had been destroyed and there was an internal justice department investigation that raised a lot of questions about missing evidence. >> suspicions of an fbi cover-up behind closed doors were soon confirmed and the chief of the bureau's violent crime unit admitted to destroying an

internal report that criticized the fbi's actions during ruby ridge. he was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison. one year later fbi sniper was charged in idaho with involuntary months later in the death of vicki weaver. however, after the case made its way through appeals court a new prosecutor dropped the charge. >> county prosecutor decided so much time has gone by the state will probably not be able to prove its case. >> 1998 randy and sarah decided to release their own narrative of the events. >> i began to travel with my dad for book signings and people who ran gun chosen people who ran preparedness expos and they would call us and say we will give you a free table but we just want you at our show. america went through ruby ridge with us. >> i want them to remember sam and vicki and the fact that they were shot down, murdered, wrongfully by government agents. >> clearly, ruby ridge made

randy weaver a folk hero. >> the number one goal is to disarm the citizens of this country. the number one order of government is that we work to disarm the citizens. >> the name randy weaver is commonly known as ruby ridge. >> now 71 years old randy weaver remains a celebrated and largely unrepentant figure among the antigovernment crowd. sarah weaver was still struggling to make sense of the event that took away her mother, her brother and her childhood. >> i was still surviving my own emotion and i cannot figure out why am i miserable. >> to her surprise she turned to religion and she concluded it was a source of her family's woes. >> one day my best friend maria was visiting me and she had become a christian later on in life and look me in the eye and said as clear as day without hesitation she said sarah i know jesus christ as my lord and savior and she said it was such

peace that i was like religion took my family down and i don't want any part of it but her praise in the back my mind constantly that i would get out my bible and i read for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. dad would not perish part hit me because i had been dealing with that, struggling with that for so long. then i read the second verse for god did not send his world into the world to condemn the world but that through him the world might be saved. when i read that i was the weight of the world came off my shoulders sarah's religious rediscovery led her to write her own from ruby red to freedom, a book that teaches forgiveness. >> i had to walk-through that

lesson of not being a victim. people will enable you to be and pat you on the back and say you have every right to feel angry. people had done that to me for ten years but it's crippling in a way because that's not where the healing is. it looked weird for people and i would didn't understand why things were happening but i just knew i had to keep walking schematics there is messages one she hopes to spread by all those affected by the events of ruby red including william deacon. >> it wasn't just my family that lost someone. there was another family that lost someone on that mountain. they lost a brother and a son and a dad and i feel their pain. at the end of the day we probably have more in common than not and i grieve for them as i grieve for my own.

it blows my mind to think of the u.s. government being afraid of us, and if they were afraid or they were concerned, why not try and understand a little bit more how to resolve this instead of coming with such force. it'll probably take my whole life working on me and working through it to try to sort it out but i don't feel so much that i have to reconcile that now as much as i need to help educate what went wrong so that it doesn't happen again to someone else. when you're in a life and death situation, take all the time in the world and sorted out because one's life is gone, it's gone. you don't get it back.

>> the weaver family has since returned to a life in the mountains with randy and his three daughters sarah, rachel all living in montana. in the summer of 2019 sarah weaver returned to ruby ridge to honor her mother and brother and reflect on the events that changed her family forever. >> for this area here would've been our front porch and the door to the cabin would've been right in here and that would've been the door and mom held open for us to run inside in that spot there is where she passed and where she crumpled with my baby sister and died. jan this would be the white area where my little brother and marshall passed away. these are two of them to

remember the life that was lost. nearly 30 years after the events of ruby ridge the base of the weaving catherine is all that remains on the bluffs. the shadows for the event on that rocky terrain still linger in the halls of the justice department in washington d.c. and across united states. the episode remains a haunting reminder to public service who were asked to absolve dangerous in uncertain situations. it's a cautionary tale for the studen citizens that must waive the desire for freedom and the need for security. the story of ruby ridge

remains scandalous. chris: he entered the race an unknown. but things have changed. i went to the top tier of 2020 candidates. the democratic field got a lot smaller. >> we set this up in a way to solve the problem without running up $40 trillion. >> the