democrats facing a make or break moment as we are awaiting a debate over witnesses in the senate trial ahead of a high-stakes vote on whether to call in any additional witnesses. a vote to reject witnesses can pave the way for the president's acquittal as soon as tonight. we are awaiting republican senator lisa murkowski's decision after g.o.p. senator alexander last night came out against calling witnesses. a major blow to democrats efforts. but g.o.p. senator susan collins and mitt romney say they will vote to allow witnesses. meanwhile, other republicans saying the time to end this is now. >> we are coming to a conclusion of this. this has been a completely partisan effort by the democrats, this has been a political effort against the president of the united states because the country is doing so well, the economy is doing so

well. they themselves have said it may be the only way they can beat it. >> melissa: sources telling fox news that if the vote fails, democrats may push to extend closing debates which could stretch the trial into next week. chuck schumer says and he vote to acquit president would be illegitimate without witnesses. >> if my republican colleagues refused to even consider witnesses and documents in this trial, this country is headed towards the greatest cover-up since watergate. if there are no witnesses, no documents in this trial, there will be a permanent asterisk next to the acquittal of president trump written in permanent ink. >> melissa: of course i met minority there. i melissa francis, here today is harris faulkner, kristin soltis anderson, jeanne zaino, and in the center seat today, former

white house press secretary under george w. bush and fox news contributor ari fleischer and he is "outnumbered." thank you so much for joining us. lamar alexander is really the one that turned that tide, the one who is going to take the hit for this or it's going to benefit him, what's your thought? >> ari: i don't think there's a hit or a benefit, you vote your conscience and this is one of these issues where republicans will be glad he did, democrats will be glad he didn't and it ends right there. the whole original sin of this is that there was no crime committed. if a crime had been committed, the senator's bipartisan would be demanding witnesses and the american people would've been there with them. that's the original sin, there is not a bipartisan assessment. >> harris: you know, they say you don't need a crime, impeachment is whatever they see it to be and that was his point, even if ambassador bolton, there's more evidence and there's witnesses, if you believe the allegations as stated it doesn't rise to the

level of impeachment. republicans should've started with that argument. let me ask you, maybe that's their position, they got democrats fighting over did he do this or did he not and in the end you can come in and say, well, even if he did, it's not impeachable. >> harris: i don't even know if it was their position as much as let's continue from the g.o.p. perspective, letting the democrats try to sell something we know the american public is right now, this total idea that if you let them go on forever and keep collecting evidence, at some point they will have enough. the house was a hurried situation, the senate was a hurry and a slow down situation for democrats, you just said, you know, maybe they will lengthen this debate process out if it doesn't pass for witnesses. so i don't know how much of the process game of the g.o.p. got wrong.

i was critical at first, why they concentrating on how the democrats earned it. i sort of understand the strategy now, jay sekulow yesterday got up there and said, want to call witnesses, let me show you who i'm going to call. and it was in a loop on twitter last night, you know what, that messaging works. now just because it was on twitter but because people can get it, it was a nugget. >> ari: a lot of senators want their senate back, they don't want to be dragged into impeachment for months. >> harris: you know somebody who can put that on a t-shirt. >> ari: "i want my senate back" >> jeanne: i think quite frankly that neither side wanted to call witnesses. strategically, the situation now if it unfolds and we know don't know yet that there are no witnesses called, we just heard chuck schumer saying what we are going to hear right through november from democrats which is that this has been an unfair trial, a trial has to have witnesses, the g.o.p. did not want to really explore this issue, we will hear this over and over again and the g.o.p. is

going to continue that this was a witch hunt. let's face it, if they called witnesses, nobody knew what they were going to get. >> harris: moore requested witnesses from the g.o.p. on the house side, i realize there were 17 witnesses but just a few weeks ago republicans are saying out enough of their side was called in the house. >> jeanne: i think the democrat should've taken longer in the house. they pushed it back, they didn't wrap it up. >> harris: why did she hang on, nancy pelosi? >> jeanne: let's hear from he her. >> the president's team is there to dismantle the constitution of the united states. some of them are even lawyers. i don't know how they can retain their lawyers status in the comments they are making, i don't think they make the case, they disgrace themselves in terms of their violation and what our constitution is about and what our president's behavior be.

>> melissa: when they go to such hyperbole all the time, they should be disbarred, yesterday i think it was chuck schumer saying or maybe it was adam schiff, the state of our republic hangs in the balance, when the sky is falling so often, people just start kind of tuning out. >> kristen: it seemed like every week there were a new bombshell revelations, bombshell testimony that never wound up moving the polls at all and i think there's become a little bit of a boy who cried wolf sort of phenomenon where everything is a big deal and nothing is a big deal. you also have the fact that only about 15% of americans think the senate democrats have gone into this process with an open mind, they knew what they were going to do from the beginning but they feel the same way about senate republicans, only 15% or so feel senate republicans were going in with an open mind either. if you know how the movie ends already there's less of an incentive to want to watch the

movie, isn't there? >> melissa: i will ask you, may be the incentive for democrats was to get to this point so you could say, they will never be fair about this, they will never do anything about it. >> ari: i think the incentive for democrats was earnest, they thought the president committed a crime but under our system you cannot have a one party push for impeachment and it's a reflection of the democratic base, the liberal base thanks donald trump -- >> melissa: do you think they thought -- >> ari: they had to acquiesce to the base. nancy pelosi did her best to try to hold back that river, the dam broke and she had to acquiesce because of the liberal pressure for impeachment. the fundamental thing abou thats wrong about that as is congresses most bravest and serious weapon and you don't achieve that unless it's by parted. she ceded to the liberal pressure. >> melissa: who do you think it would've hurt more to have witnesses? i almost wanted to see it, it was such a wild card.

>> harris: it's not over yet. >> melissa: great point. if you start going after the bidens, anything can happen. bring john bolton out, anything can happen. >> ari: i think every time somebody says we've got a blockbuster, were going to get that witness, there's going to be a smoking gun, it always turns into a dud. >> harris: it's always a water gun. [laughter] senator lindsey graham said something, we talked about this on the show yesterday, i thought this was interesting. he said you can still go after the bidens, it might be more effective in an investigation, if you do it after this whole situation is over. think about that. the president accused of wanting to start an investigation of joe biden, it may end up happening anyway because the back-and-forth over witnesses, would it have been smart at some point for democrats to say maybe we do want to hear -- just the kind of trial balloon did out

there, maybe we want to see both sides. what would it hurt? no? >> ari: you want to go after the bidens, there's a campaign coming up. that's how it should work. it would be a 50/50 vote if she says yes, 50/50 doesn't you witnesses. >> melissa: unless justice roberts intervenes and we nothing that's going to happen. >> harris: elizabeth warren ticked him off yesterday. >> melissa: we can talk about that later. with the president's acquittal looking a little more sure by the hour, democrats facing big questions about how they handled the case, the big misfires that likely turned off the g.o.p. members of the jury. ♪ i'm leah and that's me long before

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>> harris: all right, we are just minutes away from what could be the final hours of the senate impeachment trial and with the presidents acquittal looking more likely, there are big questions about how democrats handle that trial. chief justice john roberts forced to read a lot of question about his own legitimacy, watch. >> and a time when large majorities of americans have lost faith in government, does the fact that the chief justice is presiding over an impeachment trial in which republican senators have thus far refused to allow witnesses and evidence contribute to the loss of legitimacy of the chief justice, the supreme court, and the constitution? >> harris: that is hardly the only democrat move that some

say, warren's question came just days after jerry nadler and adam schiff angered republicans with their remarks, watch. >> will you bring ambassador bolton here? will you commit us to present you with the entire record of the presidents misconduct or will you instead choose to be complicit in the presidents cover-up? >> vote against the president and your head will be on a pike. i have to say, when i read that, i don't know if that's true but when i read that i was struck by the irony, by the irony. i hope it's not true. >> harris: that comment was in record to a cbs news report, vulnerable public and lisa murkowski told reporters "that's when he lost me." your thoughts? >> ari: i'm lawyer but i understand that you do not anger your jury and that's what it seems like they've done here. your point about hyperbole, this

should be somber, serious thing and when you constantly accuse your opponent of the worst motives, then i think you are hurting your cause. >> melissa: especially when you need a couple of them to vote with you, you should be showing up with candy and flowers trying to court a couple of them. >> harris: maybe they knew something behind th behind the n terms of vote count. >> ari: they are to use to talking to liberal bubbles. >> harris: if you let that sound bite play uc adam schiff walk up at his first words were "i wouldn't say that, i think the chief justice is honorable." yikes. >> kristena >> jeanne: there are variety of folks out there, one day the messages quid pro quo, they changed the word to bribery and the whole fight is over the white house not giving

information to the house, doesn't seem to me that there has been a clear and consistent message and explanation of what they're standing for and when you add into it, elizabeth warren asking for convoluted question on we are doing impeachment but not doing it the way i wanted it done makes a different branch of government less legitimate. and that is why the polls have stayed so flat during this process. >> harris: we are in an abbreviated half hour today as we have been through this process of the senate impeachment trial, you see on the left side of your screen, that's a live look. staff show up for that senate trial on impeachment. i want to take a little bit, something that is playing in the background of all of this, michael steele said there is one person who could've helped democrats sway their g.o.p. colleagues, watch this. >> do you buy if justin amash

would've been a difference maker as house manager? >> for sure. that would've made a difference, i think. >> jeanne: i'm not sure i agree that that would've made a difference. you know, he may have made the tone different and i think they have had some missteps but i think you see elizabeth warren, she is trying to appeal to voters in the caucus and primary states. >> harris: she sounded edgy, do you think they like that? i mean harsh. >> jeanne: she sounded very harsh, i don't think it was stated well, but these are very politically motivated questions. >> melissa: one of the things i wonder, you look at now john bolton wants to get out or

whatever, what if nancy pelosi had just waited a little bit longer? what if they hadn't voted and sent it over and they hadn't rush? >> ari: that's the whole case people have been making come of the democrats handle it right, to finish their impeachment when they wanted to buy greatness christmas, the right thing to do is litigate it. what's right or wrong, impeaching the president or not, let the courts decide and then you bring the witnesses end. >> harris: obviously we have capital hill to watch today, the white house summit on batting human trafficking and we are within a minute warning to go to the president of the united states there. he scheduled to make remarks and sign an executive order at the white house. combating human trafficking. this event coincides with the 20th anniversary of the trafficking victims protection act of 2000. the vice president mike pence is they are, attorney general william barr is there and

several u.s. ambassadors. there is a long list of people who are participating, ambassador gingrich will make remarks, congressional leaders are listed on a panel as well of this hour. so just before we go, the president able to use the power of the pulpit to put out counter messaging to whatever is going on with that impeachment thing, getting stuff done. >> ari: this is one of the few times i've seen the white house working together as a team, the staff is able to engineer all these events are on policy coinciding with impeachment. you really haven't seen much of that. it's so into idiosyncratic by the president. this is a very smart thing. >> harris: this is the music by which he rolls. you hear that, you know the president of -- >> melissa: that's very true that this is the most disciplined they've been at the white house.

>> harris: quick word from you? 's before being able to have these sort of policy things, it does set that message to an independent voter who might not think what the president did was right, shouldn't we be solving america's problems rather than watching tv that we already know how it turns out? >> harris: we are going to take this live the moment that he starts speaking. your thoughts? >> jeanne: he took bill clinton's advice and the white house has and that's a smart move on his part. >> harris: the president of the united states today combating human trafficking. he will sign an executive order. his comments, let's watch together. ♪ [applause] >> president trump: thank you very much. please. and i want to thank you all for being here as we mark the 20th anniversary of trafficking victims protection act, very important. 20 years ago, this nation took a

historic step to protect the victims of this form of modern-day slavery here in the united states and all around the world. my administration is 100% committed to eradicating human trafficking from the earth. i am pleased to be joined this afternoon by vice president mike pence and the members of my cabinet, attorney general william barr, secretary gene scalia, hello, jean. secretary alex azar who is very busy and was even a little while. unfortunately for -- in this case. acting secretary chad wolf, great job with those numbers, great job, chad. deputy secretary stephen biegun, hi, stephen. and also representatives chris smith, and wegner, michael mccaul and chip roy for being with us, thank you very much. [applause]

we have a lot of great senators that wanted to be here so desperately but i said just stay where you are and do your job. we also have with us ambassadors calista gingrich, hi, callisto. sam brownback and john richman. thank you all very much, thank you. and director of the fbi christopher wray, thank you, chris. we have georgia attorney general chris carr, very active, thank you very much, chris. thank you very much. florida attorney general ashley booty, thank you, ashley. thank you. florida lutenant governor jeanette nunez. and first lady of texas,

celia avenue it. i just saw your husband, by the way. i just sigh your great husband, great gentleman. north carolina lieutenant governor dan forest, thank you very much. thank you, dan. and i'm especially grateful to ivanka for her unwavering efforts, she has taken this under her wing. thank you very much. thank you. ivanka has been a champion for administrative and legislative actions to combat human trafficking, this issue has been so important to her. this and making sure people are ready to work and she's now created over 50 million jobs for the people in our country, one of the reasons are unemployment numbers are the best ever. 15 million and i would say this issue may be closest to her

heart because of the level of evil that you would never believe it is even possible in modern age, the level of evil is incredible, thank you, ivanka, for both of the things you are really focused on. thank you very much. 15 million jobs, it was going to be 500,000. i think we can do 500,000, within about a week she broke out and now she's up to 15 million jobs, fantastic. i'm not surprised, mike. not surprised. we are also honored to have with us several extraordinary survivors of human trafficking and i want to thank you all for being here. it's going to be my great honor to say hello and shake your hand. and your courage really inspires us all, i want to just let you know that. as the men and women in this room know, human trafficking is a problem everywhere, a worldwide problem, worse than

ever before. and that's because of the internet, i have heard from bill barr and others. the internet has caused lots of good things to happen and lots of really bad things and this is probably the worst of the bad things. an estimated 25 million people around the world today are being held captive, manipulated, and abused by human traffickers. in 2018 alone, the national human trafficking hotline identified over 23,000 human trafficking victims in the united states. 65% of these victims were women. more than one in five were children. human traffickers pray on their most vulnerable citizens and people, they are vicious, they are violent, my administration is fighting these monsters, persecuting and prosecuting them and locking them away for a very long time. we've had a tremendous track record, the best track record in

a long time. we are dismantling the criminal organizations that make large-scale human trafficking possible. in my first month in office i instructed federal agencies to go out and just to do what you have to do, all the federal department's are doing what they do to identify and destroy these groups and we are destroying a lot of them. unfortunately they come back very quickly in a different form. in 2018, the department of justice shut down the leading site for online sex trafficking, the doj prosecuted a number of violent crimes, now a record number. in the last three years, ice has arrested over a 5,000 human traffickers. they are great people, great people, they are tough, they are brave, and they love our country. overseas, we are also seeing historic progress, incredible

progress working with us and using our intelligence with them. when i took office, isis controlled over 23,000 miles of territory, we've defeated them in syria and iraq and its 100%, we have thousands and thousands of prisoners, isis prisoners and it's really been something that's been rather incredible and we did that rather quickly. when we came in as an administration it was all over and we have 100% -- they are bloodthirsty, they are horrible, the founder and leader was trying to rebuild isis, is now dead, we got him and that was a big thing. >> harris: the president of the united states at the white house on sex trafficking,

he's getting ready to sign an executive order on that. we are going to pull away for a moment. he takes down some of those i promise, that's a check where i delivered. >> ari: one of his greatest strengths are the policies on which he has delivered. trade, china, tax reform, he's got a long list and i love to see a policy guy, love to see him focusing his presidency on that. it's also bigger than his personality. >> melissa: wouldn't it be ironic if it took this crisis to see him be disciplined on messaging? >> jeanne: the question is will it last beyond the crisis? >> harris: what's interesting about what melissa is saying, we were talking about this, he does seem to be in concert now with his team of communicators. >> kristen: he understands that all these things that have been thrown at him have not moved his numbers, his job approval is the highest it's been, he gets that he's doing something right. >> harris: we want to spend more time with you but we've got

to scoot. ari fleischer, good to see you everybody, thank you. we turn it over to martha maccallum and bret baier live in washington and new york for a special coverage of the senate impeachment trial. thanks for watching "outnumbered." ♪ >> bret: oh, hi again. this is special coverage of the senate impeachment trial of president donald trump live in washington, i'm bret baier. >> martha: i martha maccallum, good to see you everybody, good to be back in d.c. today. house impeachment managers and president trump's legal team heading back to the senate chamber for debate today as republicans say they think they have enough votes to block witnesses. >> bret: g.o.p. senator john barrasso says he thinks it's just a matter of time before they acquit the president. >> i think the democrats may try to throw a couple hail hail mary passes, i can't tell you on