♪ hello america i'm mark levin mark liberty and levin and tonight important program socialism versus capitalism liberty versus tyranny and two great professors here to help me southern methodist university and profess of economic texas tech. how are you sir in >> doing great. pleasure thanks for being here. i read your book. socialism sucks. two economist through the unfree world an youo went to these places but came close to them.

venezuela and north korea and so forth, china -- this is a fascinating book one of the thing i like about your book is that it's readable. to the people who need to read it like millennialses. like leftists -- like democrats running for president of the united states that's just me speaking. so let's get started. let's start with your professor professor -- what is democratic social pism? we hear bernie sanders and others use that but what does that mean? mpleslet start with socialism is. socialism means that the state will control meanses of production land, labor and capitol run byth the government central plan of some kind and attach democrat in some kind of that and i suppose you're going to have a democratic system voting politicians who will elect central planners. now that's actually where problem comes in because once you centralize economic control and the hands of a few people and that's what socialism by

definition -- then how do you have millions andio millions of people influences doesn't actually work. and so it has been tried. the greatest example in the modern era a of democratic socialism is probably venezuela. just chavez was elected in a -- by all accounts trees and fair election. he a instituted newton new constitution and started in socialist revolution. they nationalized industries price control all of the things that go with socialism. and what happened? as inevitably happened every time socialism has been tried that concentration of power that concentration of economic control, enhance of a few -- they couldn't keep the democracy side and they end up using the power of the state to hammer down on their political opponents it is their media, the independent media journalist independent professors, and all sorts of people in the -- of the political parties. so that's the probe is that you can try it for a minute and it

has been tried. but there's an internal conviction centralizing control over entire economy usually not usually inevitably means that you're not going to be able to maintain a democratic free and open political system. socialism l isn't a democratic isn't a magic praise to put in front of socialism that make it is not socialism as a result of how pingt on road to serve years ago but you can't have freedom without your economic freedoms too, and when people point to places like -- and say this is successful democratic socialism like sweden well they have a problem, in fact, it is socialism sucks our chapter on souid withen is called not socialism. just sweden isn't socialist government doesn't own major mean or production of sweden, instead, the government is too big it has a big welfare state and high taxes. and we think there's problems with that but shouldn't be with socialism. the type of big welfare state and high taxes that sweden have will slow down rate of growth

and didn't get ridn of way that nationalize the majoror means of production does. >> m so in the true socialist projects, there's no pure socialism it is impossible isn't it? >> in fact actually when you look around world pure capitalism or socialism doesn't exist in purest form anywhere. everything is on the scale. even in our very is capitalist country there's government regulations that impede private the property and markets. there's some national heist industries and state provision of things and same on to socialist. >> let me ask you thises professor. at the aggressive pursuit of socialism is aggressive pursuit with a police state. the aggressive pursuit of capitalism is thing progressive pursuit ultimately of increase liberty. isn'tre this a big difference? >> yeah absolutely don't get my wrong we're both in favor of pushing far down that capitalist go. as we can but when we look around the world. >> for audience i want them to understand that, you know,

capitalism is a good thing. socialism is a bad thing. and so aggressive pursuit of social schism is aggressive rejection of liberty in aggressive pursuit of capitalism aggressive embrace. capitalism is just embracing people's liberty for con senting to that between adultses any market exchange is okay as long as people agree to it. this is freedom this is liberty. socialism takes that away and ultimately you are part of the means of production that government is going to control and they're going to tell you how to use your labor that's the opposite of freedom. >> let me ask you this,, though, inequality imperfection the the rich, the poor, capitalism versus socialism. what's your taken on that? >> well socialist that's been their selling point their selling point from marks if from the very, very beginning the selling point for socialist has been -- give us the power we will centralize control of the economy.

and we will deliver not only good economic performance which is aco lie. but we'll also deliver equality that's been the selling point inequality i have to say isn't on its surface. and horrible founding concept. i more or less all things being equal say equality is a nice thing. the problemr is they don't actually deliver it but empirical lie if it gives you anything at all it gives you sameness this is in cuba today you get two types of beer. mealses that every restaurant or basically the same. just a day the day -- drudgery of things now there's a certain equality in it in the sense that we're eating all the same meal anding having the same product available in the stores. but there's going e to be no variety available. so it's a type of equality that i like -- it gets called sameness that is not the kind of equality that most of us qowld really want to have. and so --f

one of the thing we quality is separate what socialist claim they can give us but equality and what they're going to give ugh and has been when it has been tried is a dreary sameness of life. everybody get whatever the government says. you're going to get what i get i'll get what you get, and that's not really what equality means. >> as you point out in your book how many cars arean in cuba? >> any cars? >> essentially zero. basically 1967 chevy. or if you're lucky you might sfind one from france now that market is like terrible car. it was a terrible car the day it was made. but it'suc a terrible car. and in cuba these cars will sell for $30,000. because the government won't let anybody import cars if you don't let supply and demand limit supply priceses go up. >> what about human spirit in creative ties and productivity, and i mean mention thingses that help with technology, medicine

and inio a society that promotes uniformity. >> it kills human creativity and they're ultimate resources but that creativity needs the liberty to flourish, you can see it side by side we're talking about about cuba insaneness and bland cuba food and bernie says why do you need 17 types i don't know about that. but the same meal again and again and drinking the same beer. that's -- constrain human creativity but 90 miles away make delicious food in miami a cuban sandwich is great. a cuba sandwich is old and kind of cruddy when they're given their liberty they do wonderful things with it. instead it is stifled on that island. >> i wanting to go through a few policy finishes. let's see a lot of talk about a green new deal. you know, i can remember i'm old enough to remember that you tack on free market capitalism was that ithe didn't create enough

wealth for enough people. now the attack on free market capitalism has creates too much wealth too much materialism. so we apparently need to regress and we need to limit the access to economic wealth, financial wealth, that this economy creates and they've created this green new deal now this green new deal as i see it interested in your take is sort of a degrowth movement or a deindustrialize movement wrapped up in climate change art how do you see this? inch see green as a red new deal and have demanding and control and not fall out socialism seen the the cuban north korean variety but one more step down that road to surf come to as question lose more and more of our economic liberty and those who know best in d.c. try to plan our lives for us. the environmental part is -- the w side show like when you cl environmentalist watermelon green but red on inside that's the green new deal.

>> and you know problems on the left all of the problems they see racism sexism whatever of the day and real problems i'm not going to say they're not all of a the problems are better if you're rich. if you want to deal with poverty in america if you want to deal withth malnutrition and inpant mortality and a every problem it is better for rich and we're not going to get rich by turning over our economy and drives our economy to wind mills which are orders of magnitude left efficient than fossil fuels. so one of the challenges is how are you going to achieve your if i'm a leftist how are you going achieve your social goals of equality and justice and so on and so forth -- while your economy is falling apart because a green new deal will absolutely cripple the american economy, i mean, you schismly can't place because you can't replace fossil fuels. i mean c driving energy source thatt keeps us -- keeps our, you know, our houses cool and the summer and warm in the winter and food from

spoiling are mri machines working hospitals all of the stuff is extremely highing energy requirements and we're not going to -- we're going to replace that in any life stand.ts >> under green new deal in zoning, car manufacturing now they get into everything they do in this country, with and who is they? who are they going to make all of these decisionses, politician and bureaucrats? >> that's exactly right and thay it is a a type of socialism and socialism of the soviet union but when you've got government bureaucrats deciding what energy you can use to fuel your business -- or fuel your hospital or your -- household, you are replacing central plan. you're replacing a, you know, your decision aboutep how to do thingses with a essential plan that's what socialism at a fundamental level and in a few new plan. >> this green new deal is attack on more than our economic system. it is an attack on our liberty and individuals to make

decisions foror ourselves to lie how we want to live and where we want to live to do what we want to do is that correct? this is about controlling people getting rid of your liberty absolutely and what people in had this typebo of planning dont appreciate is that we are planning and coordinating in a market society this is the role of prices and profit in los when energy prices go up, that tells us that question should work on getting substitute ises and minimize energy use but coordinate that. >>i remember it wasn't that long ago again we p were talking wouldn't it great if we were energy independent thousand we're energy independent in the same people who are saying wouldn't it be great if we wering energy independent trying to destroy the sort of made using energy independent. ladies and gentlemen, don't weeknights you can watch mein on levin is tv levin tv, with join us by giving us a call at 844-levin tv, 844-levin tv or go to blaze tv.com/mark

blaze tv.com/mark to sign up and don't forget. the hot pest book in america. on freedom of the press. by the way, this second hottest book in america. socialism -- i'll be right back. we made usaa insurance for members like kate. a former army medic, made of the flexibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said... i got this. usaa insurance is made the way kate needs it - easy. she can even pick her payment plan so it's easy on her budget and her life. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa and my side super soft? yes. with the sleep number 360 smart bed, on sale now, you can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting. can it help me fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but can it help keep me asleep?

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>> professor lawson professor powell, professor powell i want to ask you about this medicare for all including illegal aliens. how would that possibly work? >> yeah and what is it? >> it's a horrible idea. so the government is too big in health care industry right now people complain about high cost of health care and don't like how it'sat working but that's nt markets we have a severely regulated health care industry. whether it's the the ama controlling access to the profession and not letting nurse practitioners do more thing and fda that makes it dos a billion dollars this is ten years to bring a new drug to market. this isn't freedom this isn't capitalism. our problems in medicine come from too much government already. doubleing down and doing more government in medicine and promising it for free would be even worse. in fact, lots of a socialist countries haveic given free heah care for everybody. the venezuelan constitution puts fa right to health care and having a right on paper doesn't deliver it. there's still scarcity average

person venezuela last year was lost 22 pounds this isn't a healthy country the putting on piece of paper doesn't deliver and still scarcity and you have to ration and hear had about death panel who is decide who gets health care and whatnot when you have socialized medicine. >> how many people run from the united states to canada for health care? howw many people fly to britain for dent care? in other words, you're right these utopian ideas don't cut it so you don't get cutting edge drug and technology and who do you go t to if you need help. how does this help? >> find out how thing can be about expensive you're going to create waiting line there's no country including rich in united states. to say basically write a blank check to everybody say have as much as you want because we will run out of resources pep and so when you -- we'll have enough resources so then what?

you have to ration you have toking ration. someone has to decide and if there's no prices due to rationing, then it is going to be a government agency. it is going even medicare for all and those guyses are ones that decide well mark you're sick. we don't have enoughs doctors nurses and methods to go around to give everybody free medicine so -- we're going to have to decide whether you're one of the lucky ones that get it or not that rationing is required in the system and you make that rationing so much worse when you don't charge prices. because who is to say if your illness is worse or more deserving of care than say ben illness well it is a bureaucratic decision and that's inevitable and done in canada and eve where else. >> this is life and death this is not a joke. what office a do you call that can actually deliver what you need you know we talk about insurance companies. which are also basically of the federal and state government at this point. but who do you call there's nobody -- there's no relief. >> no this is the, in fact, we

whns we were traveling for socialism to cuba, people will talk about about socialize medicine in cuba being a success. this is all a myth people have to bring their seats to hospitals to places that are poor but what they have is good care for the ruling e elite because some conrad are more equal than otherses and about for paying foreigner in who is pay cuban government for health care they can get high quality care and it is a myth they have this great life expectancy because of socialize health they don't havee car accidents and they have forcehe abortions of high risk pregnancies basically cooking books when is it comes to life expectancy and socialized medicine a disaster everywhereld be else. obamacare that was supposed to be nirvana and now they basically don't talk about obamacare. obamacare was like -- aup foundational point and now e have basically a centralized control health care. the v.a. without choice. now if i'm a vet, and i'm told

you have a right to health care, what bernie sanders says. okay i'm going to go on v.a. say i want this, i have a right to that health care and that doctor and that meld. but you know they don't. put them to is isn't social i. one big damn lie? >> well it's a -- a great -- ite? is a promise. it's a promise of utopia it is a heaven on earth kind of promise the promise is we live in a world withh scarce resources and doctors and nurses are other human beings and people that make the drugs and design drugs scientists they're human beings. and we don't own them. you know? and when you say health care is free and it's your right what you're essentially saying those doctors and nurses are obligated to work for you. or the taxpayers have to pay them for you. and i think we really ought to ask ourselves moral question with is that really what this is all about or maybe we should have aia system a medical system that is more based on mutual

gain like look i need something. i really would like something fixed doctor. levin would you help me? that is a more humane system for getting our needs and wants satisfied. turning over to the sort of yew utopia heaven on earth kind of thing it is childish almost to frengt this. >> wouldn't it be better if we embrace our strength? the system and competition, left government, all kinds of policies. all kinds of coverages all kinds of costs all kinds of competition all kinds of available we do it when we're selling toasters and department within the department of justice with any trust division that says you know, you can't combine this tv company and this tv company. when it comes to the private sector but yet when it comeses to government it's the the opposite more centralizedless competition the better aren't we

doing this backwards? >> absolutely backwards we should be leaving people in freedom to choose and competition in private markets like that could be moved to where we don't have competition markets nows and it would function heck of a lot better. so a lot of same people running for president in i see talk a about -- the need for competition in the private sector while we're talking about need from monopoly when it comes to government monopolizing that in private sector controlled by government. when we with come back i have a question for both of you why is it assumed that people who work in the government are smarter, more noble, more earnest than people who work in the private sector? we'll be right back.

this is a fox news alert i'm jon scott in new york fox news confirms multiple american casualties in afghanistan. as u.s. and a afghan a forces were with attacked in eastern patient of that country today. details from the region are scarce but a u.s. military spokesman says in a statement, american troops were engaged in direct fire. the incident occurred in a region where both the taliban and islamic state operate. and it comes as washington is looking to end the 18-year long war in afghanistan. and in thailand a mass shooting leaves at least 20 dead authority say it began as a money dispute between two people when a soldier killed his demanding officer and jumped

into vehicle and shot up people as he drove ending bloody ram page at a popular shopping mall i'm jon scott now back to life, liberty, and levin. professor lawson what is it assumed that government does what had its personnel handles that that's more noble, more humane and if it is done in a private sector kind of the opposite. >> well i'm not sure it is opposite people are more or less people wake new the morning and most of us want to just make our lives a little bit better off at the end of the day than it was when we started day. feed our kids take care of ourselves in old age and so forth i don't think government bureaucrats are much different than people work in private sector. you don't think they're different in the pursuit somebody with a 30-year civil job versus somebody takes risk. >> i'm not saying they're dna or human beings but different motivations.

>> but there's perhaps but difference is that n they're in different systems you put me in a market system where i need to create value in order to provide for those thingses that i want in my life if i need to provide our product that people want to buy the the a profitable level an price level or if you put me in a civil service job where i government can't go out of job we lie on tax as which are taken with taxpayers we're, you know, dmv literally cannot go out of business. if you put me in a dmv is office a i'll put in a different way. a better way. >> people in government offices? can produce better make better decisions than people in the private office? >> well they can't and this cut to being the whole systemic problem it is not just about wrong people. i think bad people are just attracted tohe politics. ratherer than private markets, t even peopling being people. even entrepreneur and private market has prices and profit lost to guide his decision making to create value for others. planners "don't ask, don't don't have access to same information because they're not getting

people voluntarity purchase their services from them so informational component of it suspect the same. this is the fundamental problem almost 100 years ago on article on socialism and he asked for a socialist economy. how do you calculate even if we have angel and planning bureau and w advance the production he says without markets it's impossible. >> and isn't part of the problem professors, thatuc politicians bureaucrats with good intentions can be a big problem that had is they may have a million good intentions but not imposed on us that is their elections those are their desires those are what they want.. no? >> that is absolutely correct when we talk about the economy. the economy is e me and you and ben and all ofco the people that are watching this show. it is individuals who have their own goal and octave and things they want to do and governor bureaucrats has what they called the fatal conceit they have a conceit that they can devine

what people really want. and that they're going to sit in their office in washington or state capitols and they're going to make the decisions to give you mark a thing that you really want because you're maybe not smart enough to know what you really want w but it is not conceit that's king the with the free people. >> what are this universal basic union i remember this comes up in 1960s and everybody blow it off and laughed at it. but it's back cory booker brought it up. elizabeth warren everybody is bringing it up. why does a universal base -- >> so it is a horrible ideas but what had it is is guaranteeing everybody a minimum of income that goes to everybody in society whether you heed it or or not and socialist economy some of them we visited have essentially a universal basic income for everybody and that is poor. poor and equal except for the ruling. in the united states context doing something like this would be just tremendously costly. and thinking about like if

there's deserving poor poor that you want to help -- why would you do your program that you spend money on everybody else who doesn't need your help too that has to be inefficient way of helping poor people. >> is that a way to motivate people to be self-sufficient? >> i grew up on other side of the track and pretty poor and if you offer lawson liking thousand dollars. like a thousand dollars month was not just is insane amount of moneyy 13-year-old me i was poor and what i have worked as hard what i have studied this hard and and a ph.d. and been a professor if you told me at 13 you can coast out the rest of your life with a thousand dollars a month. i would have probably taken that deal because to me a thousand a month meant i was rich. >> i'm looking at all of this. all of the subsidies welfare relatedt thingses why would you work at all there are people who would work regardless. but you would have a great and great or percentage of the public who are induced by the

government. not to work -- >> our preenterprise system capitalism is incentive and information so profit loss and salaries these give incentived to do things for others and prices give you the information to tell you whether you're doing a good job for others in socialist economies this doesn't work the way because they don't and by the way that new socialist man to work for good of everybody else he never showed the the punch time clock and not doing it for common good so both of those reasons more you socialize economy less productive you get more pless good you are at satisfying desires everybody else. >> every weeknight watch levin tv give us a call to join up i hope you will 84-levin tv. 844-levin tv or go online blaze tv.com/mark blaze tv.com/mark don't forget to get your copy on freedom of the press we'll be right back. it only takes a second for

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now professor lawson going down the long list of utopia ideases here free college and eliminate college and this, obviously, aimed at the millennials -- two-thirds people inn this country never graduate from college so you actually have people who were poor than those people subsidizing them and paying offha their loans too. while we're at it so much for the the guy. but what do you make of that? >> well we went to chicago for these socialism conference and talked to a lot of young millennials if you want to call them that. >> you were having a hell had of a time reading this book. north korea. chicago. we got to drink all over the place. >> great. great, and certainly the student loan and free student loans are -- forgiving student loanses with a big part of the agenda to socialism conference. this confuse ben and me a little bit because -- free student loans aren't, obviously, socialist plan it is justnf a big state welfare state

plan so calling it socialism was a little bit of a problem. but we certainly had a lot of people who thought that was a good idea but we go back to same conversation we have about free health care. a you can't make something free but you can and if you do you canut ration it because everyboy wants to go and everything with the freeu university systems in europe is they don't take have many college student so try aring to spend a 30% of our high school students we're trying to sending a huge number to college in the united states, and only reason this is financially viable is if we charge them. you make it e free we're not going to be able to afford to send that many students we have to again central planner some bureaucrats some testing aged or somebody has to decide which luck abouty high school students get to go to college because if it is free we can't afford to spend to everybody when it is free. >> it is not based on merit and you havew all kinds of politica, ethnic, genitalia all kinds of decisions that are built into

these thingses that have absolutelying nothing to do with brain power. what do you make ofia this? >> yeah absolutely, and you know, we went to chicago to if it is in chicago big socialist conference we call it back in uff a we talk to a lot of millennial and young people there because overwhelmingly young people and while they talk about precollege but what you got is a host of issues with far left of the democratic party but when you ask if you're in favor of abolishing replace it with state control. the majority of them aren't. they don't equate socialism with the characterize but instead environment, jengdzer issues -- pick your issue they're just far to the left and someone told them socialism is the answer when really what we need to be saying capitalism freedom, free enterprise and cooperation type of word that socialist and lefties like. weom capitalism is cooperation buying and selling exchange this is cooperating on a voluntarity basis soco what we have tried to dodo in this project is reach ot

to millennials to engage and understand some of the benefits of capitalism and socialism is opposite of the what they aspouse. >> part of thehe great difficuly from my perspective you're both professors you're in a small minority. around the country, and it is relatively easy particularly if you're a marksist to get tenure in colleges and universities. and in some of the so-called leading colleges and universities faculty pick incoming faculty it is a relationship -- and so you speak out, i speak out. most republican or conservative missions have marbles in their mouths they don't know how to explain these things. so evenle when it comes to informing our fellow citizens particularly young people, it becomes difficult. so the emotional or passionate plea i'm going to give you this and i'll give you this and we're

going to look like this and world will look like this there's not a lot of counterbalance and this is extremely concerning to me extremely troubling to me. there's no answer so i'm not going to say how do we fix this. but i'm going to say -- maybe the government should do a little less subsidizing with university and colleges and a little bit more promotion of again, competition. which would promote more ideas more opportunity for different kinds of faculty, for different types of professions and so forth what do you think of that? >> higher education business needs to be the word today disrupted. i would like to see much more competition, higher education accreditingbu agencies, have created the sort of across the landscape. and that is not good for a vibrant education. so i'm in favor of this. you know, you won't get in trouble. one of thehe things that ben ani teach in texas is a reason for that is because we -- we found some difficulties in

other states -- teaching espousing ideas that we do so we went -- gave up and went to texas. we're supposed to have what's called economic freedom. ideas this is place that's supposed to take place a. really vibrant debate different idea, libertarians, conservative constitutionalist whatever we call ourselves, we love that. >> dude, mark we're too academics drink through the unfree world that's the free world right there. [laughter] >> exactly. but you have to go elsewhere to do it. and what i'm saying is -- more and more of these universities -- a conservative wants to speak if you bring in the police. the commencement speakers are always seem to be a one ideology and so -- so my concern is and i don't mean to put you gentlemen on spot is -- our universities look more and more like socialist regimes that we talk about in terms of

liberty and freedom of speech and so forth po not exclusively but more and many more from outside i don't work many them. and when i was going to school i went to couplewh of university s radical left wing school in north philadelphia i was jot spoken conservative for ronald reagan and people wanted to hear what i had to say. today i think i would have been may perhaps beat ton a pulp. >> there's a aspect to that. but disproportionate at least how i've personally experienced it. >> but you're in texas. >> but i speak all over the country but topics on socialism sweat shops or immigrations and controversial topics ed i've had student protest me when i'm speaking but i've always been able to deliver my lecture to have a civil conversation with vast majority of the students and faculty that attend. >> i will say if you're a conservative or lib tash professor you have to be a little bit more guarded what about you say and how you write and how you talk to student. maybe you need to publish one or

two more articleses in your left wing colleague down the hallway but it's at least in economics and we're not in humanity i don't to speak to what it's like in humanity it is not good from afar but at least in economics our chosen profession if you're goods and publish you can be any political thing you want to be. we'll be right back. severe with. whoa! and vaporize it with an intense rush of vicks vapors. ahhhhhhhhhh! dayquil severe with vicks vapocool. the daytime, coughing, stuffy head, vaporize your cold, medicine.

♪ now professor powell let me bring up this issue ofs cost. i know it doesn't excite people. but everything has a cost. and i don't hear brought up during any of the debates by any of the journalist who are asking any of the questions. there's more than even this. that's being proposed plus current e circumstances of masse debt. how do we pay for all of this is this >> we're not going to government cut matily going to have to default on some of its promises that it's made forget the? free college free health care everything else they're talking about. what we have on the books right now is not the sustainable. social security, will not be able to pay for itself going forward. we're not going to be able to make payments that are promise sod that means some sort of default whether that default on actual obligations in terms of defaulting on debt or whether it is changing the ages and requirement andti payments under social security the government promised more than can be delivered you can't squeeze

bloodci out of a rock. you're not going to squeeze more moneyor out of our economy to py the type of debts that this government is racking up. >> don't we have a massive debt right now. >> one way to default, though, is to precinct money. make one of the greatest risk 69 national debt is o politicians won't actually have the won't be brave enough to tell our social security recipients sorry not able to get that 40 check but a 300 check because we're out of money they'rera instead going to precinct 100 dollars and at the scale we're talking about that is inevitably inflationary. so i think that the default might be a different type of default and inflationary default as recipient of medicare woapght be what -- what you were promised. what does that do to everybody in the country? >> hyperinflation of that type of magnitude wrecks an economy, it destroys your price system your able to calculate profits and who ises between thing it all gets this is hyperinflation.

crimes economic activity to a halt this is what we saw with venezuela. we sawct people lugging suitcass across the venn venezuelan border and suitcase was heavy both ways because it was stuffed with worthless cash they have because of the hyperinflation there. they needed that suitcase in order to buy basic supplies. >> we see these preworld war ii plaque and white films. from germany and the republic, and people pushing barrels to all of their paper currencied a at the a time so what it does ultimately is destroy the society completely destroys his society starvation, poverty, why do we with need example after example after example of this? we've got one south of the border and venezuela which is rich in oil. it actually has more oil reserves than any of the country on face of the earth. with a vibrant rich country 50 years ago probably richest

country south of the border. look at it. it is fourth country of one of the poorest countries on face of the earth people starving to death. people being killed because they've object to what's a taking place how many more examples do question need -- that libertyea related economics works?ak and tyranny related economics is a disaster? >> hopefully no more examples mark but unfortunately we keep getting them and venezuela the average was richer than average spaniard this was a relatively wealthy country and it was democratic as we discussed earlier. e is what democratic socialism will give you. political tyranny and poverty. >> i know this bernie sanders has a point to venezuela anymore. >> he likes to point to sweden and denmark as iconic -- >> but also he'sing wrongen -- he's wrong about that. and he's lying to us -- he went to the soviet union in the 70s and he liked it.

not saying socialism like soviet union butn denmark is a massive bait and switch on his part and shouldn't let him get away with it. >> appears elizabeth warren is running to his left go figure. i'll be right back and try -- we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

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todays. so we are much freer more economically free much more capitalist today than we were in jimmy carter 1970s. and i think that trend is is still going on, still going on around world and u.s. is part of the world. i think we'rere on a trajectory this is a hiccup but i'm actually an optimist. >> professor powell i'm an optimist but because i believe in the power of free and enterprise and anti-cavity capitalist more generally so if our ideas are better and do a better job of communicating them, world should move in that direction now i think -- exist did a fairly bad job of communicating to general public and a wrote a boring article that nobody reads and some that probably nobody reads. he's your friend and this is our attempt in writing socialism sucks you have a travel and funning having beer trying to relate to particularly millennial but normal people out there who wouldn't read adam

smith but might read around world but still get deadly serious ideas of the economics and history between capitalism and socialism. >> why i'm concerned -- the center keeps moving left -- the government keepses growing. i don't reallyco know of any political or governmental way to start to contain it other than maybe article 5 convention of state. i see progressive movement of 100 years has been extremely successful and desiring numerous institutions including yours in my opinion. i see some pushback. so i think it's a coin toss at best it's a coin toss at best. the republics don't survive forever. i'm not saying this one is over but fight like hell with ideas with books like this tv show and so forth. but it's a tough american people must get engaged professors been a great pleasure. thank you. >> thank you.

>> thank you, mark. appreciate it.t. >> don't forget next time watch life, liberty, and levin. >> welcome to waters world i'm jesse watters iowa "state of the union" acquittal and democratic debate we don't have enough show. it is a month of news packed into a week. so we stack hour for you tonight, we have steve bannon rudy giuliani kellyanne conway and jerry jr. and democratic president rnl candidate toll gabor but first a week of "watters world" this is how, you know, trump just had his best week ever. listen to the left. >> everybody wants to get out of town today. i think this has been quite