side gets a cnn contract?" >> harris: we are going to scoot to a very short commercial break now before we anticipate learning of the sentence for roger stone, who is in court, described as not talking all that much but smiling with his team of attorneys, from the >> ed: the stone sentence color we are getting inside the about to come in. >> julie: w we will have reporting live but right now courtroom, the u.s. district "outnumbered" starts now. court in washington, d.c. stay close to "outnumbered." dows of frequent mood swings >> harris: a big hour on can plummet you to extreme lows. "outnumbered." fox news alert is where we will (crying) begin come expecting the judge to announce the sentence for lift you to intense highs. (muffled arguing) former trump associate or, make you feel both at once. roger stone. could happen any moment now. the case has been before the overwhelmed by bipolar i symptoms? judge for more than an hour yet. ask about vraylar. some medications only treat the lows or the highs. it's become a political firestorm come as you may know, vraylar effectively treats depression, after attorney general acute manic and mixed episodes of bipolar i. william barr intervene to push for a letter prison sentence than the 7-9 years prosecutors full-spectrum relief of all symptoms. with just one pill, once a day. had originally sought. elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis the judge today called the initial recommendation "well have an increased risk of death or stroke. within the guidelines." call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. let's first go to david spunt, live outside the courthouse with antidepressants can increase these what's going on inside that

courtroom where this is all in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, enfolding. i mentioned the length of time the sentencing hearing has been which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or unconble muscle movemen, going on, david. >> it's actually extraordinary, may be permanent. side effects may not appear harris, if you think about it. for several weeks. metabolic changes may occur. it began a little after 10:00 movement dysfunction, today, 10 minutes after 10:00 restlessness, sleepiness, this morning. stomach issues are common side effects. it's almost two hours later and we still don't have a sentence when bipolar i overwhelms, at this point. vraylar helps smooth the ups and downs. we did get video of roger stone's family members, friends, supporters, walking va mortgage rates have dropped fto near 50 year lows.. into the courtroom this morning. as you remember, this has become call newday usa. one call can save you $2000 a year. a major controversy with many different story lines and many different characters. but the one we are focused on with the newday va streamline refi there's no income here today is roger stone. verification, no appraisal and no out of pocket costs. last week, harris, prosecutors with the department of justice in the local u.s. attorney's office said that stone should go and my team can close your loan in as little as 30 days. to jail for 7-9 years, somewhere one call can save you $2000 every year. in that range. that was the sentencing recommendation for witness tampering and lying to congress. the next day, attorney general bill barr said, "listen, that sentence is too tough, we want a lesser sentence," without providing that sentence. president trump is also been the dome i complaining about that

sentence. there are many things going on. but we can tell you right now in the courtroom roger stone decided not to speak. normally defendants have a chance to say a few last words to the judge. he said he had nothing to say at this point. his attorneys are pleading saying roger stone is 67 years old, he's involved in charity work, he's a philanthropist, he's also about to be a great grandfather. asking the judge to plead. judge jackson, who ultimately can decide the sentence, three years, five years, ten years, 15 years, it's whatever she wants. she is saying roger stone inserted himself into this controversy. those were her words from the courtroom, saying roger stone essentially brought this on himself. harris, right now we are waiting to hear with the sentence could be at the end of the day. it's up to the judge. there's also that theory, that talk about a potential pardon from president trump. no indication at this point g0d0j ú á1tï.á;igqub it'll happen from the as parents of six, this network is white house, but president trump one less thing i have to worry about. issued those pardons and (vo) why the aceves family chose verizon. commutations yesterday. we all use our phones very differently. he is very close with these two are always gaming roger stone, he says he hasn't and this one is always on facetime. thought about a pardon for

roger stone when asked about it and my oldest is learning to be a pilot. we need a reliable network directly, harris, but at the because i need to know he's safe. same time he's been tweeting as soon as he lands, he knows he better call mama. about roger stone and how "unfair" the process has been to mama! him. so i suspect i will see you back (vo) the network more people rely on, gives you more. in just a few minutes here. as i'm seeing right now and our like plans your family can mix and match starting at just $35. notes coming from the courtroom, and apple music on us. we are just a few minutes away plus, up to $650 off the latest iphone when you switch. from finding out this sentence, harris. >> harris: you know, david, that's verizon. i'm looking at some of the nodes were talking about that you guys are sending from there. not just about what the judges indicated but what she said. she talks about "intimidating behavior" directed at the court from stone before the trial. a lot has come up today. >> yes, a lot has come up today, and specifically with that is roger stone is under a gag order now because prior, previously, several months back, he tweeted a photograph of the judge with cross hairs over her. almost like a target over her picture. he apologized for that. so this has been a difficult back and forth between judge amy berman jackson and roger stone. apparently it looks like she's

not going to have much sympathy. more notes coming from the court saying that she is looking at a stronger sentence. again, the original guideline with 7-9 years. ♪ it looks like she may be going somewhere in that direction. at the end of the day, if he is pardoned, that vacates. ♪ one more thing, roger stone is requesting a new trial and judge jackson says she's not going to execute his sentence ♪ right away. essentially he will walk out of here today even if he has a sentence, and she will rule on the new trial in the coming weeks if he is going to get one or not get one. he is alleging bias from a majority. so he will walk out of here, he >> melissa: right now you are looking live at the scene. will be taken into custody. we are awaiting the sentencing of roger stone on seven counts >> melissa: david, there are a lot of details are on the story that market as unusual of lying to congress, witness you talk about that photo of the judge that brought it down like tampering, following a trial roger stone tweeted. that has seen a lot of twists the events of the predawn raid, and turns here. a lot of them outside of the why was cnn there when he came courtroom. we'll bring it back to the couch out? there've been a lot of twists here. and turns that make it different we were looking at 7-9 years. from others. what was the temperature like in we don't know what the range is

the courtroom itself? who is in their gmac was it going to be. that was thought to be the very high end of the spectrum here, the possibilities. silent, where their murmurs? set a little bit of that scene your thoughts? >> harris: you know, it's for us. >> i'm looking at notes from the interesting. when attorney general media room. william barr talked about that being too much, and other attorneys weighed in on this there are no electronics inside the courtroom, but there is an network. i've interviewed them, i'm sure you guys have, too. it seems to be on the outer edges of what was reasonable for immediate room where there is what he was convicted of. audio piped into that meeting room. he is setting notes. when i read this, melissa, when at this point it looks like i read some of the notes from stone is calm, looks confident, the judge coming out of the is surrounded by his attorneys. courtroom, "mr. stone the big thing is he didn't want to speak. he's normally -- defendants are "he misdirected the committee, allowed to speak to the judge. dealing with wikileaks founder, no apology, no words to the julian assange." judge. at this point we are just she is saying some specific waiting to hear from judge amy things. she is dealing with the obstruction charge in her berman jackson. remarks. >> melissa: that might be she's bringing up some things smart given everything that's today that makes you think she going on. may take a total look at that seems like probably a good call. >> harris: david spunt, we sentencing. that 7-9. will come back to you as the he mentioned this too, carley, news warrants. it may be in the next few previous to the break. i haven't seen any indication it minutes. thank you. would be more than that, but we brian kilmeade today. actually will kind of introduce had indication it could be a lot everybody as we go around. less than that. i don't know, when you read the you have been on the story all

notes from the judge in the morning long, and i'm curious to know your thoughts and the courtroom, brian, i get a feeling this could be strong. length of time this has taken. it's been more than two hours, some of the nuances that we by the way. >> brian: i was reading the didn't expect today, being brought up in the courtroom. crawl while doing the radio show. think to myself, "is that the >> brian: number one, the judge is not going to be ruling?" i was going through it as you were reading it. intimidated by the story line, a couple of things, the fact how the president came out and sparred openly with his attorney that he said nothing blows me general during the week. the ramifications are tremendous away. >> melissa: why? >> brian: he had a chance to show contrition. for the trump administration as well as the justice department. "there was a misunderstanding, he feels as though the there is extreme pressure at the intimidation factor is going to time." play a major role. it wasn't just how he did, it was how he acted after he got charged. i would say this, one was --dash happened. >> brian: the other thing is, could the judge feel somehow credico threatened to kill us that she has a loyalty those toe cap rate is never killed a cat before. it could be just hearsay. he doesn't have a history of doing that. four prosecutors that resign? they took that as a threat. >> harris: she said she wanted to know about the defense come judge jackson must also know that the president of the of the two government lawyers recently united states retreated joined the case after four tucker carlson's monologue last night where he called on the original prosecutors resigned. she wanted to know why, she president to commute the sentence and pardon him. needed notes on those two new guys. two new people. the present already retreated

what tucker carlson recommended. >> brian: "i'm going to be she must know what could be just as tough, i don't care about the appointed attorney coming. general who says it should be maybe she's making a stand that less, and since the president will speak for itself, that will had nothing to do with it." never be paid for. >> harris: carley shimkus with as this part of the pushback? us today. >> melissa: i just wonder >> carley: yeah, you know, if about the jury foreperson. she sentence is roger stone to more than 7-9 years, that would, to me, signal -- posting on social media. >> harris: i haven't heard anybody say that would be an during the trial. that is shocking to me. indication. david blunt and others have said did nobody notice during the that she approached those larger trial? did they not bring it up? numbers. remember, they were lowered are even instructed that you're not supposed to be talking about after attorney general barr got involved. >> carley: but that would signal to me that a retrial was it? >> harris: don't they check probably not necessarily in the everyone's social media? picture. >> marie: which is why i think because why would you go that far only to say, "let's do this it was a huge mistake on -- i guess it was the defense team's over again." job to do that. but if there is a retrial, even i could also really see the president going for the pardon. if there isn't, now this judge not only because of the retweet is tasked with trying to figure but because he would see this thing out. that jury foreperson, shame on something like andrew mccabe not getting charged with any crimes. >> harris: he mentions him in her. it was her job to say, "i am the tweet. >> carley: yeah, to roger stone who was arrested by biased. i know what's going on here, i an fbi s.w.a.t. team and facing years in prison. know who roger stone is, i have it's very much with in his very strong feelings against the

president. character to see that something i'm not the jury for this that is unfair, and act. trial." that was her job. it would be controversial, but because the new cycle is so fast so shame on her. >> harris: it would not be -- these days, even though it's an to use that number or list of election year, he can afford in people they can strike from the february to make a controversial jury. it's their job to do that. if they have the proper decision. information, that comes -- if >> harris: how it's in character for him to do she's doing it on social media,y something like that. a pardon, to act quickly. doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. unlike other presence she would never say "i'm too who may have waited into the end biased." of a term, to do that. >> carley: those of the questions he would ask. also what we are seeing is the >> harris: i would hope. but you have to get there. frequency of these in the last do you to ask questions. week. that the president is taking a look at things, marie. and not everybody is caught up >> carley: she tweeted about in white-collar crimes. roger stone before the trial. not everybody is caught up in >> harris: "is there anything in your social media that would lying and tempering. give away our politics, ma'am?" there are other people who have done prison time that fall into seems easy. that prison reform act the >> marie: they should make sure there was consequent this period that he got caught up in president put forward. the investigation, got scared. and he has given clemency to because he lied, he misdirected many since last week. the fbi and congress about his >> marie: the president loves this ability to pardon because contact with wikileaks, which he could do it so unilaterally. the cia director has said is a hostile foreign intelligence >> harris: all presidents can. service. she is saying it was just a >> marie: exactly.

you don't need congress come you don't really need anyone else. process crime, it has real and he clearly likes this. consequences. >> harris: i want to scoot out i agree with carley and brian. to judge andrew napolitano, or if i had to put money on it, i fox news senior judicial analyst, to break this down. think he will pardon first of all, it's great to see roger stone. you. it'll be controversial for a thank you for being with us. number of reasons. roger stone has played fast and one big question, this has gone loose for his entire career with on two hours. why? >> well, because the judge knows legal issues. the fact that he treated that whatever she says and does cross hairs over the judge's is going to be scrutinized not face during the trial, that is only by the public and those of us who scrutinize it for a insane. now it's coming home to roost. living, but by the people on the ninth floor of the building she >> melissa: he has a tattoo of is in, which is the nixon on his back. i mean, we are talking about -- united states court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit. so she wants to make it he's a unique person. bulletproof. she runs the risk of tipping her >> marie: but he's always place fast and loose. >> melissa: there are two interesting issues here. hand and a showing personal antipathy toward roger stone. it seems to me she has demonstrated some of that. there are people convicted with no underlying crime. they were under the microscope if she gives very, very sound, and they did something and try and get out from under the microscope. factually-based reasons, reasons as a result, some of them are based in the record of the trial going to jail. not everybody -- that hasn't always been the case. to justify her sentence, and if there people who lied and other the president does not interfere investigations, "oh, well." with that, with a pardon, then the sentence will be upheld. i understand, but i'm saying so she's probably being very,

that there is that and there's very meticulous for that reason. people like paul manafort who >> melissa: sorry, judge, this had committed crimes in the past and they weren't looked at is melissa francis. ca light on the closely. conversation we were just having until he got next to the about this jury fo foreperson? president. i think you've got to put those things in two different baskets. one, he got away with a crime are they instructed not to talk him? she was a partly on social media before, maybe he shouldn't have page of the attorneys not have volunteered to get close to a access or do they not think to go look at social media or even current president. monitor it, whether it's in the you know you have these things in your past, less something for past or during the trial, of people who are on the jury? that. for the people who were really chased down because they are does that strike you as a near the president, yes. as you say, they broke the law regular, and is that a to try and get away. but not -- we don't always prosecute that. that feels very uneven in my reversible error in and of itself can make >> a couple mind. things about the jury >> brian: i would think one thing, if he does get pardon, i foreperson. first, she's a lawyer. believe if one shoulder blade so she's familiar with these has nixon, the everyone will procedures. second, the social media she have -- used was not public >> melissa: i thought it was social media. it was just to her own friends bigger than that. >> harris: leave actually gone down a road where brian is describing the ink on the back f and followers. that would have required hacking for either the government or the roger stone potentially. >> brian: that's my role. defense to find out about it.

>> harris: i want to pick a third, she outed herself. different role for you! after the conviction, on the [laughter] >> marie: to carley's point, i am outraged when any president same day and within hours of the pardon is a personal friend who resignations of a four is accused of lying about things prosecutors. what she outed about herself, that, in part, involve them and their campaign. i do not like it, i think it's melissa, showed a tremendous inappropriate. >> melissa: he feels like it's antipathy to president trump, his fault. if these people hadn't come to work for him... >> marie: regardless, you shouldn't lie to the fbi. i was going to say, to carley's and it showed two mentions that one or two and one negative -- about stone himself. that's why think the trial judge is making a mistake by something for us in addressing later with a view should be a new trial. point -- >> harris: finished your point and i have a follow-up. the trial judge should be >> carley: i have no addressing first whether the confidence there will be case was fair. political -- the can >> harris: why should he be? it's a pardon. supreme court has said that thes you said moments ago any president can do this. who are indifferent as to the >> marie: because you shouldn't pardon your friends. outcome. >> harris: either you can do this juror was not indifferent it or you can't. as to the outcome. >> melissa: so that is a just because you don't like it reversal right is one thing. >> marie: the question is, there. >> yes. should you? and should you pay a political >> harris: judge, skipping price? back to the social media, you >> harris: because you don't like it. bring up such an edifying point in terms of that it wasn't look, when president obama

pardoned chelsea manning -- and i might be wrong, because i public, what she was posting. think there was a commutation that's what you and i were going on there too with the talking about. i can't imagine in 2020, 2019 -- prison sentence. when that happened with chelsea manning, it was huge. acal would check someone's i know they are not friends, so it's differently in terms of how they maybe know each other. social media whether they were a but there was so much criticism foreperson or a juror. in the past with how much of this is on the part of the people who put the jury president obama. >> brian: she did massive together? do you want to ask those damage to our country by letting go all of this intelligence and questions? >> i think it's on the point that on my part of this juror, these private communiques to begin leaks. harris. >> harris: that's what carley >> harris: did that offend said. you? that's my question for you. because you said you are >> carley is right. >> harris: i went to law school with kilmeade offended. >> marie: that's a better example. one presidents get involved in pardons with people they are >> brian: we watched "paper friends with, that our donors to them, i think that's very messy. chase" in the 1980s. >> harris: we are mixing [laughter] presidents now. >> the question to the potential >> marie: because you brought up chelsea manning. juror, do you have any bias in i think the marc rich pardon is a better example. favor of a government or that was a donor, they were prejudice against the defendant? she says now. better friends. i think carly is right. >> harris: but we don't know that she did, do we? >> "but wait a minute, i've tweeted about these people and i >> melissa: i was thinking will tell you what the tweets are and you decide if you have about, with the pardon, with any bias."

by keeping the information to blago's pardon. herself she committed a grave whether that was right or not, that a cloud of the message. error as a lawyer and as a jur juror. i think president trump is so >> harris: it sounds like she clever that he doesn't think the maybe dm'd. story will get covered at all if you just pardon those three women who were in jail for a long time for drug offenses. >> melissa: we are talking there has to be a headline that different social media. makes him -- that his enemies judge andrew napolitano, thank you. stand by, we are going to bring latch onto, in order for it to you back to us as soon as we get get coverage. because if he just does a good the verdict, and we will squeeze thing, it doesn't make the news. in a quick break here. but don't worry, we will be >> marie: i don't think the right back as we continue to president or anybody could really think this far in follow the sentencing here. advance, but my personal pardon me, the sentencing in the crystal ball tells me that to, roger stone trial. we'll be right back. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ reactionary, call for impeachment. a second round of impeachment. who does that work in the favor of? president trump. >> brian: that would be so extreme come in the next eight months. i would be stunned. >> marie: i don't think that would lead to an impeachment call but i do think -- do we think the president should pardon a personal friend?

>> harris: let's go back to you or marc rich example if we can purchase a second pair there are a couple commonalities there. obviously bill clinton had just been impeached by the house, and acquitted by the senate, as well. so i get the similarities. but if you just wash all of friendships and that away, a president can pardon. if you want to change the rite for presidential pardon, i guess we could start there. >> brian: didn't eric holder do that, by the way, too? speaker it's not that they can come it's whether they should. having a power doesn't mean you should always use it. you should have an ethical and moral -- >> harris: what kind of political price do you think the president should pay? did bill clinton have to pay that price for pardoning his friend? >> brian: i would say this, to answer your question, if the president feels this person served their time and has been prosecuted unjustly, friendship should matter either way. >> marie: can you ever make an unbiased decision about a friend in a pardon? >> melissa: i think it works

the other way. that if you didn't know the person and it was brought to you for whatever reason, because they were wealthy or they have an advocate or a crime, you wouldn't think twice about the pardon if they were in your friend. if they are your friend, you do know how it's going to look so you do think twice about it. you stand less of a chance if you are a friend. >> marie: do you think the marc rich -- >> melissa: i don't know enough about the underlying -- >> brian: unit with the big star is? roger stone and manafort will push the limits. because they thought if they break them, the dam will open about the president's links to russia. they put all kinds of pressure and there wasn't a link there. >> harris: look how they showed up at roger stone's house. remember that morning raid, for lack of a better term? >> carley: and we haven't even talked about the jury foreman, which goes to your point, melissa. if the president thinks he's innocent or not, if roger stone didn't get a fair shake, he could easily pardon him and say it's because he didn't get a fair trial if he doesn't get a

retrial. >> harris: right. because the judge right now is considering that very same anti-trump bias among a jury (announcer) once-weekly ozempic® is member, the foreman, as you are helping many people with type 2 diabetes like james saying. bringing that to our attention. lower their blood sugar. i want to go back to what you a majority of adults who took ozempic® said about political penalty in reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. all of this. i understand he is in an here's your a1c. oh! election year. i reelection here. my a1c is under 7! are you saying the president (announcer) and you may lose weight. should be disqualified in some adults who took ozempic® lost on average up to 12 pounds. way? for a pardon, that just seems i lost almost 12 pounds! so -- >> marie: i think -- >> harris: by the lines of oh! (announcer) ozempic® does not increase what you take exception to, what the risk of major cardiovascular events has happened -- >> marie: he has made it clear like heart attack, stroke, or death. he wants to int this there's no increased risk. oh! country. >> harris: do you read has 200 and i only have to take it once a week. quebec i don't think -- oh! >> marie: he has said that ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ publicly. he's made it clear. (announcer) ozempic® should not be the first medicine i think that's incredible for treating diabetes, or for people inappropriate, unethical. i think it's not something a with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. present of either party should do not share needles or pens. don't reuse needles. do. >> harris: but democrats wanted to be two men get office. do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or family history it only -- is that with what this is? of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, >> marie: i think when voters go to the polls they should or if you are allergic to ozempic®. consider the fact that stop taking ozempic® and get medical help right away

president trump is acting in many ways like he wants to if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. interfere in the judicial process inappropriately, and serious side effects may include pancreatitis. independent voters don't like that. tell your doctor if you have diabetic retinopathy i think there should be a political cost. or vision changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin >> brian: what gets under may increase low blood sugar risk. their skin is that one michael horowitz does he report, at which time it details how andy mccabe was less than candid or many >> harris: breaking news now, we know the sentence for different occasions, of lying to roger stone in this u.s. the fbi just because he's a district court in member of the fbi even a washington, d.c. it is 40 months. higher standard. 40 months. a little bit more than three years there. so, david spunt is outside the courthouse now. there was a lot of deliberation today with this judge. they went on for upwards of two hours and now a decision has come. >> exactly. three years, four months. that's what roger stone has been sentenced to. let me tell you something. roger stone walked in today confident, with his team. this went on for about two and a half hours today, slightly

unusual. the original recommendation from prosecutors was 7-9 years. the judge ultimately went much less. looking at some of the notes that come from the courtroom, basically judge amy berman jackson told roger stone and his team that the truth is important and that roger stone injected and inserted himself into this issue. this was not something that he was just attacked for randomly. what makes this interesting, if i may add, roger stone is asking for a new trial. the reason he is asking for a new trial is the jury foreperson, a female that was on the jury, has come up with political bias, admitting she has political bias against stone, against president trump. so stones team is asking for that -- judge berman jackson has not ruled yet on that. meaning that will happen the next few weeks. so she is delaying the execution of his sentence, meaning he's not going to walk away in handcuffs today. he will probably be leaving at some point at the next 15 or

20 minutes. >> melissa: free on bond, i see that as part of the notes prove that he will be free on bond. >> harris: talk to me if you can about -- go ahead. >> no, go ahead. >> harris: i was just wondering, he kind of sat very calmly, you are describing him smiling. i know he was taking some notes and talking with his attorneys today. what was the actual reaction when we found out it was three years and four months and not anywhere near the seven to nine years that originally had been the prosecutors' recommendation? >> his defense team breathed a sigh of relief. stone did not make much emotion, from what i'm reading here. it was also customary for the defendant to speak before the judge just before their sentence. he was given that opportunity today but he declined. he said he had nothing further to add. roger stone is not someone that shies away from comments where the camera, as we know. so it remains to be seen if you will say something when he leaves here. i suspect he will probably still be under that a gag order because this is still an ongoing

case. the judge still has jurisdiction on this case because she has yet to rule on a new trial. so it remains to be seen if he will say something, but right now we know that it's three years and four months, 40 months behind bars, incarceration. the question is, when all that begin? and will president trump offer not only a partner, but potentially commutation? he's been talking about a lot lately. >> harris: david spunt, you are in just the right position to give us what happens next outside that courtroom when we finally see roger stone. perhaps, as you say, he will speak. he will do the one thing he didn't do with the judge today before the sentencing. maybe we will, in fact, seem speak. hear from roger stone. we will come back to you, david spunt. stay where you are, as i know you will. i want to scoot now to judge andrew napolitano, senior fox news judicial analyst. judge, your reaction, first of all, to three years and four months? >> it's the exact number the attorney general asked the new prosecutors to request. so the original request was 7-9

years, the president criticized it. the prosecutors quit. the attorney general appointed two new prosecutors. the new prosecutors requested 36-40 months. when you do the calculation, the algorithm that produces these numbers, it depends on how you answer subjective questions. i'll give you an example. was the defendant remorseful? well, he claims he didn't commit a crime, so how can he be remorseful for a crime he didn't commit? one judge would say that the negative and another would say it's a positive. when the prosecutors, the original four, did this algorithm, they came up with 7-9 years. i did the algorithm, i came up with 36-40 months. my friend sol wisenberg, who sometimes is on fox with us, who was one of bill clinton's prosecutors, did the same algorithm. he came up with nine months. so it just depends on how you answer these factually-based questions. this is nowhere near the number that outraged the president, and

well within the request that the attorney general himself made. >> harris: yeah, the 7-9 years. i want to talk about the convicted -- the seven charges he was convicted of. one obstruction of proceedings, five false statement charges, one witness tampering. is this reflective of those charges, and how? >> you know, there are two types of lying under oath. one is a lie -- i'm not diminishing what he's been convicted of. one is a lie that everybody who years that know it's a lie at the time they hear it. another is a lie that causes the government to expend resources to find out if it's true. that latter one is the one that usually indicates a lot of jail time. because the government wasted its time and resources going down a rabbit hole. speak six except when andy mccabe did it, because he waits at the fbi agents' time, a bunch of them, for over two years two years. >> harris: brian, the decision

not to prosecute andy mccabe is utterly explicable. but in stone's case, as soon as he said it, adam schiff and company accused him of lying. if there is no expenditure of government resources, if there is no fbi agents going down a rabbit hole because the light sent them there, that is an indication of a lower punishment rather than a higher one. >> melissa: judge, can i ask you, what does it signal to you that the judge went with basically exactly what barr's recommendation one? that 40 months? what does that signal? >> she's trying to make this bullet proof from a pardon, because she went along exactly with what the attorney general requested. how can the government possibly object to this? she gave them exactly what they wanted, and it's half of the number that had outraged the president. >> melissa: as you said, you think because of this jury or person there is a chance that the trial was not fair in the eyes of the law. so what does it mean to you that

she chose to administer the sentence before considering that? >> i think she wants -- that's a great question, melissa -- i think she wants to keep jurisdiction over the case. because if there was no longer proceedings before her, she could not silence stone. i have to say word about silencing him. i can understand a judge silencing a defendant during the trial. you don't want the defendant outside the courtroom speaking to the jury through the media. but stone was convicted in november. at that point, his first amendment privileges and rights returned to him. there is no sound legal or moral basis to silence a defendant after conviction. i understand in the courtroom, as we speak, his lawyers are now asking her to lift the gag order. we will find out from bill mears and company if they succeeded. we will also find out if stone comes to the microphones when he comes out. >> harris: absolutely. we have our david spunt there watching for that. just a step back for a moment

and what happens next in all of this, what happens, a, if the judge says, "nope, not going to give you new trial?" >> en route to make that determination, harris, she has to have a testimonial hearing in which the foreperson is on the way the sampans that will take a bit of time. the new prosecutors for the government can interrogate her. the old prosecutors from the government should be ordered into the courtroom, and -- >> harris: the ones who quit? >> pardon me? >> harris: the four who left the case? >> absolutely. the judge and say no if they knew that the foreperson had this prejudice. if they failed to tell the court and defense counsel. >> brian: they could be in the caribbean, they would have to face time her. [laughter] >> brian, one of them actually quit the doj. three quit the case and went back to their former doj jobs. but they are all still under her jurisdiction. they can't leave this case on

their own, they have to ask for permission to leave. she has two lawyers before he or he didn't cry the case but our reps into the government. four lawyers are presenting stone, who were there for the entire trial and know every inch of it. >> harris: a new trial, or not a new trial? we've got the look if she says no, in the hearing that happens before then. she says yes, you get a new trial, what does that look like? >> that it's up to the attorney general of the united states. as to whether or not they want to retry roger stone ortho and the tile. that will be a highly politicized and hotly into the prize hotly anticipated decision.to tl conviction. >> harris: and the one thing we haven't been talking about much in the last two seconds is the president could pardon roger stone pay more to come in

all of this, judge nap, thank you for being with us. because we may in fact hear from roger stone when we see roger stone. you are looking at the live picture outside this u.s. district court, on the left side of your screen. when we see the man, that you see pictured on the right bottom half, live and in person, we will take you there live here on "outnumbered." stay tuned. as a struggling actor,

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at now on the left side of your screen. that he had been previously under a gag order. we know his lawyers are asking for that to be lifted, since he has already received a verdict and now is sentenced. if that gag order is lifted we think maybe he might come out and talk to reporters. otherwise he will not. thus we are waiting for right now, setting the table. you look like you have a few more details over there. >> harris: well, i'm watching the president's twitter. i do know that two hours ago they say roger stone lied to congress, at cnn. oh, i see. so did comey." and he also leaked classified information." this is the president's twitter. "goes to jail for a long time, and so did andy mccabe, who lies to the fbi. fairness? fairness. "maybe there will be response on a social media. his confidant and friend, roger stone, has been sentenced, as you said, to 40 months.

a lot less than what prosecutors originally wanted. and it matches, as i believe you just said previously, would william barr, the ag, had want wanted. it is coming fast and furious now. after two hours inside that courtroom. >> melissa: right, and the point -- when i asked our judge, andrew napolitano, what signal is she sending with that sentence? and he said, making it more difficult for the president to pardon roger stone, because his issue is sentences that are too long. in this case she went directly along with what is attorney general suggested, so it makes it -- marie, you are talking about the issue before. he pardon, is it okay when they been treated unfairly or when the sentence is too long? taking away that second one. we go back to the unfair treatment, though. he wants to jump in? >> brian: if you believe "the washington post" story is correct and there is legitimate friction between bill barr to the point where he almost walked

out and thought about resigning, if you want to get under his skin again you take the judge's ruling, which is exactly with the attorney general suggested, and takesow it up. this judge's ruling to task, that could be interpreted through bill barr and is attorney general of the shot across the bow, and the worst thing i would contend with this administration is for there to be tension between outside -- mike pence, his most loyal cabinet member and the most effective, and the president of the united states. >> melissa: you mean mike pompeo? >> brian: mike pompeo it's up there, but i would put bill barr right behind mike pence as the most oil ineffective member. >> carley: has a really smart point. i think judge napolitano's right. the judge in this case was trying to make this pardon-proof and make it seem like if he did, that the president pardoned it, that it was political. if the president then does, i think brian is absolutely right. that will explode, again, the narrative of the president and a barr at odds. >> melissa: i disagree with

that. i think if the judge doesn't reverse the case, andrew napolitano said that he thought that was reversible error. the fact of the jury foreperson was so completely biased by her own admission. and that she lied about it. because certainly she was asked -- >> harris: maybe she didn't, maybe the prosecutors who left -- >> melissa: if she doesn't say that he needs a new trial, that this was reversible error, then you could still pardon. because come in my mind -- >> marie: because the judge went straight down the middle, it almost seems like it would have weirdly worked, potentially in roger stone's favorite even more if he's looking for a pardon, for the judges to have just thrown the book at him. >> melissa: that's what we are saying come absolutely. >> harris: on the president could have said it wasn't fair, and the sentencing. that's what melissa was pointing out. >> carley: i still think there will be backlash against the president and ag barr. the ultimate sentence was

lesser. >> brian: but carley, the only thing significant is between barr and the president, consternation toward barr. >> harris: how real do you think that is? we see the reports, we see these latest reports that he might have, you know, even talked about resignation. i don't know how we would know without talking to both of them. >> brian: my gut would be that it's real, because you don't call 1-800-abc-news and go and talk to the president. >> carley: the president has never made a statement like that before. "i agree, i was wrong." that was a big admission. >> marie: i think barr leaked this to quell some uncomfortableness at that department of justice. i don't think it's actually true. i don't think barr is unhappy with the president. i think he's trying to keep his workforce happy and he leaked it. >> melissa: i would feel better about that. that's my initial instinct, that's how i read that interview. that that's what was going on.

there's been so much follow-up after that and i'm not sure, but i would be happy if that was true because i think he needs ag barr, like you said. >> brian: that means we are being played pair that means this is a script. i would be highly insulted if these two were working it out. "you talk, now you talk." >> harris: we are talking about what could be, let's talk about the facts. on the left side of the screen, washington, d.c. we are waiting for roger stone to come out now after being sentenced to 40 months for those seven charges that we've gone into this hour, including witness tampering. then we will see what happened next. will the judge say, "yes, you get a new trial because there could have been some sort of bias on the part of the foreperson on the jury," or, "no, you don't get it at new trial," and around and around we go? will the president pardon roger stone? those new things you're talking about. >> melissa: we will keep an eye on that. in the meantime we will take a quick break. we'll be right back. do. however, since 2000, the buying power of the dollar

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>> melissa: boy, oh, boy, we had a jam-packed hour and they will carry it right into the next. thinking to brian kilmeade and our old couch here. we are back here tomorrow at noon eastern, but we are going to continue that live coverage as roger stone has been sentenced to 40 months, waiting for him to come out of the courtroom right now and i will handed over to "overtime" with harris faulkner, starting right now. >> harris: thank you, melissa. fox news alert, we are awaiting possible reaction from former trump associate roger stone after he was sentenced to more than three years in prison. this is "outnumbered overtime," and harris faulkner. the judge also ordered stone to pay a $20,000 fine today, and rebuked him for violating previous court orders not to talk about the case, and for a threatening instagram post. the judge also agreed with attorney general bill barr and president trump that the original sentencing recommendation of 7-9 years in prison was excessive. how do we know? she gave him 40 months.

stone was convicted last november of lying to congress and witness tampering. president trump, prior to the sentencing, she did this. "they say roger stone lied to