that is it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." ♪. ♪. mark: hello america, i'm mark levin. this is "life, liberty & levin." great guest, michael pillsbury, how are you sir? >> mark, good to see you. mark: expert in china? >> yes. mark: and you're the director of the center on chinese strategy, hudson institute. you have written widely about china including recently. let's get started on the coronavirus and work our way through how it is being dealt with. i want to get into who would be

a better presint for the united states in dealing with china? i want to work our way through this. >> okay. mark: let's begin with the coronavirus. i understand it began in wuhan, china. originate ad virus with bats they think. worked its way, skipped into live animals, these open live animal markets they have in china. one in particular they think they have tracked it down to, juan wholesale seafood market with live animals of all sorts. you will explain this in a second. from there it skipped into the human population. not sure if it is touching, if it is air, if it is eating. what do you know about this? >> the original information we got is all from china. we're totally dependent on chinese public health scientists, chinese officials. mark: they lie all the time. >> a phone call from president xi xinping to president trump. as you know part of the hallmark of president trump's approach to

china has been to talk to xi xinping on the phone at least once a month, very long calls. to meet with him in person four times now. so this phone call from xi xinping was very helpful but we're totally dependent for analysis of the virus in the beginning on chinese sources. later on when italy and south korea began to share samples of the virus statistics of who was dying and of what age and why, the president got a much better understanding of the virus. i think that's part of the reason he is closed down travel to europe. it is also part of the reason he closed down travel to china back at the end of january. so this is an evolving mystery where this virus came from and how the chinese do not want to take responsibility for what you just said. that it could have come from a bat jumping to another animal in turn to humans.

the chinese gave that as a theory but they also persecuted the first eight doctors in december who blew the whistle and said this is extremely unusual. we don't understand. this is not flu. it is something quite different. the first eight doctors were actually put in jail. their speech rights were taken away and the key guy was actually an ophthalmologist who saw this and blew the whistle. he is now died of the v. russ but he was, at first nameless in china. now he is more of a hero because in the west we have talked a lot about his contribution. so we can't be exactly certain ourselves because the chinese will not let american health scientists go to wuhan and make studies, despite the president's offer to do that as early as the first week in january.

mark: so maybe they have something to hide? >> that's my own fear is that they know more about the virus and how it was created and how it spread than they told us. these wildlife markets in major chinese cities, i've been to the one in south china guango. to a western visitor they're horrifying. you see live snakes or coa la bears. mark: coa la bears? they eat coa la bears? >> that is asked a if great delicacy if western says you need to close the markets that is considered insensitive trampling on chinese cultural superiority. they recently told us that their congress has banned consumption, eating of wildlife in china but when the, western reporters ask

to see the markets, are they still open, china has said no. this seems to be a very raw nerve for china. they don't want to take responsibility for the virus. they started spreading rumors, even their foreign ministry spokesman said a few days ago, people should not say the virus originated in china. it could have come from outside of china. some chinese with me and others they talk to calling the virus the italian virus. so this is a very sensitive matter in china. i think that the chairman xi did not go himself to wuhan to look into the situation that whole first month. he sent his prime minister instead. he only recently went down last week, went down himself. even then he wore a 95 mask and only talked by video to some of the patients inside at one of the temporary hospitals so this is a very delicate issue in china and president trump has been handling it very carefully.

mark: let's, let's step back first. we'll get to our president. let's deal with theirs so far. >> all right. [laughter] mark: first of all the china fees are now involved in a heavy-duty propaganda campaign. their foreign minister, their various ambassadors, their state-run propaganda media is pushing out the notion that america started this virus. you were talking about american troops. they're even putting out more sinister conspiracy theories we planted this in order to blame it on china to affect commerce, undermine the communist system. they also put out there, you're not to call it as i you pointed out the chinese virus or wuhan virus because that is racist. that is picked up by the american media. don't call it the chinese virus or wuhan virus that is insensitive that is racist. so there is a huge propaganda campaign going on, is there not? >> that's right. some of it done by chinese

embassies circulating letters and making requests that the virus not be called the chinese virus. some of it's worse. i fear they were trained in all this by the soviet union 30 or 40 years ago and the soviet union, we actually caught them distributing materials saying the u.s. government created the aids virus in a laboratory called fort detrick 50 miles north of washington, d.c. the soviets put out a whole narrative that aids was created by americans, disseminated by the cia. this was found credited by all over the world, there is social science theory you put the story out first, get first impression. that is what the chinese are doing, getting out the idea that this is racist to call the chinese virus. they have also gone a little bit further by telling stories that there were american soldiers here for this competition, or,

you know, creating doubt about our motives. president trump has offered to help china. he has praised president xi's handling of the virus that to me is a goodwill gesture in a minimum n return what we get back from china are rumors america is behind this. as you mentioned, mark, to slow china's growth down. mark: but as an expert on china, you've watched them for decades. you been there a zillion times, they're watching this, it is incredibly shocking to hear our media repeat aspects of the propaganda, the same media three weeks ago that called it the wuhan virus, the chinese virus are lecturing us, don't call it that. >> that's right. mark: china has victories in the propaganda campaign, and the point of the propaganda is what? to tear down america and sustain the communist regime in china? >> yes.

are their basic theory that america has been in decline, has been for 20 or 30 years. china is on the rise. the crossover point will be two or three years from now. they also have another theme that china is a better world leader than america. we first saw this in xi xinping's speech in davos. three years ago china tends to advocate on behalf of the rest of the world against the americans. that we are heavy-handed or immoral or we have racial inequality in america and our media, you know, they are very concerned about reporters being expelled from china. they just expelled several "wall street journal" reporters. we are taking counteractions to it. secretary pompeo done some very excellent things to declare chinese media outlets here part of the chinese government, that have to register before they go see anybody. that is how their media functions but our media has an

understandable intimidation by the chinese. we won't let people who speak ill of china come into china to work. we will expel journalists who write the wrong story. this has an effect on our media. mark: there are citizen journalists, really only kind ever journalists in china because there is no real free speech, newsroom bureaus over there. so you have these gentlemen like this lawyer and others who went right to the middle where this virus was. >> right. mark: they have disappeared. they have been removed by the chinese government. i don't hear our media talking very much about these people at all, do you? >> no. i think it's intimidation by the chinese government of our media to some degree our media thinks china is still our friend. they're kind of stuck in the old way of thinking about china. they also obviously have no love

lost about president trump. so when they see him successfully working with china on the trade deal and on other matters they sort of position themselves as we're more friendly with china than president trump is. it is a vicious game that is going to end up with our public becoming confused about the nature of china and beginning to accept the argument that we are in decline, our time is number one is finished and china is on the rise. the more this takes hold of people's imagination, the more they're going to adjust themselves to following orders basically from china. mark: do you think our media, even more than being intimidated by the chinese regime is excited and motivated to trash our president while china is pushing its propaganda? in other words, the purpose of the free press is to inform the

american people, particularly at a time like this, not to advance an ideology. not to ruin an administration or something like that. they seem to be exploiting this, am i right? >> no, you're right. one of the more sensitive examples is the chinese continuing to poor mouth themselves. they say we are weak. we have internal problems. we will never, you know, surpass america and be leader of the world. anyone who says this is just manufacturing false stories. president trump has said, i wrote this myself, if hillary had been elected president trump said many times china would surpassed america and be number one in the world today but it is not going to happen on his watch. so the chinese hate this. they don't want the idea played up that americans should be afraid of losing their global

primacy but i think that's what's happening. we have a number of messages and a lot of people in our government right now, in various departments of our government are taking a look how we can counter these chinese narratives. we're taking much more seriously chinese writings over the last decade that have said narrative power is the most important thing a country can do as it is trying to surpass the old world leader. mark: when we come back, i want to pursue this despite the fact that our media and the democrat party, i call it the democrat party press, despite that force, that entity, trying to tear down the president, trying to paint a picture of the president who is not stepping up, trying to paint a picture of the president who doesn't know what's going on, you're here to tell us quite the contrary. he knows exactly what is going on. he is addressing it an continuing to address it. we'll pursue that when we come

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...simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] mark: welcome back, michael pillsbury. the impression, that the democrat party media wants to create, whether it is cnn or msnbc or the sophisticates at "the new york times" and "washington post," that we have a president who is not focused,

he is not engaged. he really doesn't know what's going on and so forth. that is not it at all, is it? >> no, it's not. in the case of china he wrote a book in the year 2000 laying out his strategy towards china. he repeated some of these points again in another book, just before he was inaugurated. the basic theme is that the chinese are smart and they're strong and we need to recognize how clever they are, especially in negotiations. so you see in the president's speeches, his comments, and his tweets about china, you see a kind of respect for the quality of their strategy. he has got a very funny line he likes to repeat. i don't blame china, he says of course china wants to be number one in the world. of course they're trying to surpass us. of course they're smart. i blame our previous presidents who put up with this and did not see what the chinese are up to. so in a way he is being

flattering to the quality of chinese strategy. they have reciprocated. they sometimes express in official media respect for president trump. they should be attacking him, how dare you say we're so smart and we're so strong. but actually the chinese sort of quietly acknowledge, yes, we are strong and smart and so are you, president trump. the negotiations have been just fraught back and forth reneging, walking out, leaking of each other's positions, very, very tough negotiating. mark: that's brutal. >> brutal negotiations. mark: hand-to-hand combat. >> very, very tough negotiations but president trump has said to me and others, i'm a deal-maker. i want a deal with china and they understand that. if you go into any main chinese bookstore on the mainland, you will find "art of the deal" in chinese. mark: but what you seem to be saying he wants a deal but not on their terms? >> sergeantly. mark: he understands their

terms. >> when they reneging one time at one point, within 24 hours he upped the tariffs. he went public and chastised them this is not acceptable. that sent a message to the hard-line group in beijing, our reneging didn't work t was a test to the president when they took back a large portion of what they agreed to, they and he immediately knocked that down. the stock market started going down. a lot of panic in the media and sure enough the chinese came back and restored a lot of the key concessions that they tried to renege on. mark: you worked for other presidents, right? >> uh-huh. mark: what other presidents have you worked for, who else? >> i worked for president nixon when i was at the rand corporation writing mem mess on china strategy. mark: president reagan. >> i was reagan's policy planning chief in the pentagon.

mark: bush? mark: any republican president prior to this president as quickly as this president said, travel ban china? i don't think so. i don't think they would have had the guts to do it, foresight to do do it. i like those other presidents. quarantine, we haven't had quarantine necessary over half a century. this is before the information came and before our scientists had a real handle or grip on what this virus actually is. instinctively, instinctively, relying on scientists. but he is relying on scientists and his own common sense, the president. that is why we have a president. he says, whoa, this isn't something that was created here. this is something that took place in china and we need to protect ourselves. >> right. well, it is important the chinese asked him not to do this. they publicly said please do not cut off travel from america to

china. this would be a huge economic blow against china. the president did it anyway in a very forthright way, and i think the reason is the quality of his bond, his relationship with xi xinping. they're sort of man to man. i got to protect my country. this virus is getting out of control in china and i'm cutting off airline flights, you know, that's it. and the chinese continued cooperation, the limited cooperation they have had with us. i think you know our cdc set up the chinese public health service back in the '80s under reagan. mark: i didn't know that. >> when dr. fauci talks about what china thinks he has actually been on the phone with his chinese counterparts. there is some level of cooperation. now i think that data helped the president decide, i have got to stop these airline flights to and from. mark: when he made that having, it is having, i like to think i pay attention to the news, know

what is going on, i don't remember any congressman saying cut off china, travel from china, i don't remember the media pushing for it. he is way ahead of the game. >> yes. mark: he is in position to be way ahead of the situation. these are tough decisions. people say, why doesn't he step up? why didn't he see this earlier? from a congress that was so busy with an impeachment trial, wanting more witnesses, you don't even hear about john bolton by the way, do we? >> no. mark: they shut down congress paralyzed at a time maybe they should have been holding hearings, maybe they should have been passing supplementals to help deal with this rising virus do you think? >> i do think so. the president doesn't get enough credit for that particular decision but it's also true that he doesn't get enough credit for his deals with china. in a way, our, our left can't stand his success with china. now there is one exception. bernie sanders, not joe biden, but bernie sanders is really

tough on china. comes out of his labor union base because. mark: more of a stalinist than a maoist. that is the way i would put it. >> other than bernie, there is kind of a grudging acceptance that chum succeeded with china but you don't hear about it in the media. the fact that the chinese continue cooperating with us, i think they will implement the phase one trade deal. a lot of things come due april 1st this is miracle when president says, no i'm cutting off airline flights, take it like a man. by the way, the president of south korea should have done that. he now realizes by not cutting off flights to china, he has got a lot of dead south koreans on his hands. italy did not cut off travelers, massive tourism to, by the chinese, to venice, florence, rome. they love italy. it wasn't cut back at all. mark: european union, which is exactly why the president said,

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but health experts say it will take a year to 18 months to fully validate any potential vaccine. now this comes as cities nationwide shut down schools, restaurants, and public events. the panic is most evident at the supermarkets. shelves stripped bare by shoppers stocking up on essentials. politics taking a hit too. democratic presidential candidates bernie sanders and joe biden are debating right now at this hour in washington without a audience. 577 delegates are up for grabs. i'm aishah hasnie. now back to "life, liberty & levin". ♪. mark: welcome back. the sars virus 2003, that also started in china, didn't isn't. >> yes. mark: tell us about that. >> well the chinese were much more secretive in those days. we didn't have the relationship. we didn't have president trump and president xi having these monthly phone calls. so the chinese attempted to

conceal, first the existence of the virus. then its lethality. ultimately it killed far more than the coronavirus has as of today. mark: did it kill thousands? >> yes, it killed thousands t was acknowledged by chinese scientists later it was another one of these examples of wildlife in a market where the virus jumped as the scientists put it into human consumption, and then spread. china claims, it's partially true, the chinese are doing a much better job this time than the 02-03 sars virus. so friends of china are encouraged now to make this point that they're not as secretive. mark: in the american media? >> yes. [laughter]. give them credit for improving from 18 years ago. mark: i don't remember all the panic during the sars virus. is it a memory issue or am i

wrong? >> there was some panic but it was not -- mark: not like this. >> considered to be economic. remember in those days the chinese gdp in 2001, 2002 was only 10% of our gdp. their massive growth that president trump talks about, that they're about to surpass us, that began over the last 20 years. so china was not a big factor in our economy the way china is today. in my view, and i think others share this, that the effect on our stock market and our economy is because of this massive chinese economy. they're at least 3/4 our size by one world bank metric, they're considered to have surpassed us already four years ago. if their big factories are shut down which is what president xi xinping did, that shuts down exports to us. it shuts down components to cell phones. it affects the apparel industry. it leaves walmart and target

shelves -- pharmaceutical industry. >> absolutely affects pharmaceuticals. mark: in a big way. >> the chinese are telling us this could be propaganda as well, in the past week since xi xinping went down to wuhan, their new propaganda theme china is going back to work. we have curbed the virus. our big factories, they say, 90% of our big factories open again going back to work. whether that is true or not time will tell but this was not the case in 2002, 2003. mark: at anytime in the last several months has xi's reign been imperiled at all? >> there is speculation about that. in chinese communist party, a ruler gets killed, pulls out, there are power struggles we know b. this is extremely secret in china. whether or not there is a challenge to xi xinping is hard to know from the outside. he didn't come out in public for

two weeks. he seemed to be putting all of the responsibility on his vice president, if you will, his prime minister. mark: potential fall guy? >> yes. then it shifted more recently. now xi xinping is wearing a mask. he is saying he was personally involved in all the decisions. mark: a hero. building up a hero. >> he is now a hero who curbed or basically defeated they say, the virus. mark: the sars virus ended over a period of time of do you recall? >> it ended about a year. mark: were thousands and thousands of people affected but a relative small percentage passed away. >> uh-huh. mark: do you remember how the media treated that? media didn't treat it anything like media is treating this. i shouldn't say we don't downplaying it. you can't turn on the television without it being hammered

hammered. they have the numbers up there like a basketball game. how many people have it, how many people passed away. do they have heart disease, is something else going on, that sort of thing. i don't remember that in 2003. >> sars was under president george w. bush and he had a more bipartisan spirit. he didn't have the kind of basic nastiness that comes out of the democrats these days. so i sense that the effort to turn against president trump for the re-election campaign, that the democrats now think they have got the issue. it is not going to "spygate." it will not be russia, russia, russia. they think this is a dream come true. if they can show president trump is some ho incompetent or mishandling the chinese virus this, is their path to put joe biden back in the white house. mark: when we come back, are the chinese rooting for trump or joe biden in this election? we'll be right back.

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♪. mark: welcome back. michael pillsbury, the chinese, are they rooting in this election for joe biden or donald trump? >> well they like joe biden from his time as vice president. he made a number of trips to china. used to brag, he bragged in a famous speech as vice president in australia that he accumulated the most hours of anybody in the world with xi xinping. he hosted xi xinping to visit washington, d.c., when xi was vice president. so there is a bond there. biden is also taking credit for a lot of what i would call pro-china initiatives. so they see him as somebody who would be a dream come true, that he would probably undo the phase one trade agreement. he would undo the world trade organization efforts that president trump has taken to get reciprocity for america in trade deals. so they have to be rooting for biden. whether they would openly

interfere is another story, because it might get caught or might backfire and make president trump angry. mark: didn't biden famously or infamously say that we're eating their lunch? are we eating their hundred? >> the context of candidate biden's remarks were his belief, which was true 20 years ago, that china is relatively small and its gdp comparison to our gdp. but now, with them closing in on oust or passing us in some indicators, it is simply wrong for vice president biden to say that. i think he wanted to sound patriotic. we're america. we don't have to fear anybody but it is just factually wrong, and i have spoken with a number of mr. biden's advisors and they acknowledge that it's wrong. they're trying to get him to come around and acknowledge the massive chinese growth, especially over the last 10 years. mark: you say over the last 10 years.

well, many of those years is the obama-biden administration. >> yes. mark: they were building those fake islands. >> yes. mark: administration did nothing about it back then, obama-biden. that is when they really peaked economically. they really did nothing to counter that. this president comes in with the tariffs, punishing negotiation. >> right. mark: building up the military that degraded under obama-biden. why would we expect anything different from biden that we got from obama when it comes to china? >> i disagree with you a little bit about the obama-biden administration. i think theres with a little bit after split. so i hate to, i you think less of me, but i was advisor to them on china matters. mark: apparently they didn't listen to you? >> i detect ad split that, obama himself was angry at the chinese over climate change. ash carter, secretary of defense was actually quite tough on china. flew out to aircraft carrier in

the south china sea with the press there and made a speech criticizing what you just mentioned about china and the south china sea. at the same time, hillary clinton, john kerry, when he was secretary of state, and joe biden they were known as the softer side of the obama administration. the chinese themselves would say this to me, that they preferred to deal with biden or kerry or hillary and avoid ash carter and obama. so, just an interesting chinese view of the split of the administration. mark: the fact is, the results are, what they are. >> yes. mark: and nothing definitive was done, nothing effective was done. >> not exactly. obama extract ad pledge from xi xinping he would not militarize the south china sea. mark: how did that work out? >> they violated it within 60 days. mark: isn't it remarkable though, that we had one of our big ships in a vietnamese port.

they invited us. they wanted us there because the chinese are grabbing, under water territorial rights that belong to the vietnamese. we have these sorts of things going on with former enemies. on other hand, philippines selling out to the chinese. maybe closing clark air force base, one of our major air force bases, there is turmoil taking place in that part of the world, no? >> chinese are more and more insistent all the neighbors of china need to respect china more and not openly -- mark: in other words surrender territory and so forth? >> chinese are far more tactful. they want their new power acknowledge and to some degree president trump has been able to counter that with a new initiative called the free and open indopacific strategy, that he mentioned a lot. there is a lot of substance to it. it is countering chinese financial offers, for example. it is taking seriously chinese

coercion in the area. president trump likes to call his new strategy, a place where nobody gets coerced by any major power. i think his new strategy is working. mark: all right. we'll be right back. $20 a month, no contract. don't keep that case though... this is your wake-up call, people. the new tracfone wireless. now you're in control.

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♪. mark: welcome back. michael pillsbury. in the last segment you were saying the administration is taking a number of countermeasures really across the board trying to contain china. >> yes. mark: for instance? >> the president has succeeded in getting every single government department to take a new initiative toward china. the department of justice, for example, has, what they call the china initiative. they're prosecuting economic espionage far more frequently than in the past. they have been looking at the rule of law in china, seriously deficient. the fbi has expanded its number of cases, the fbi director testified, more than 1000 cases now involve china. and the department of agriculture, there has been an effort to rebalance, to reduce our dependence on china. there has been a real push. the chinese would not let us sell beef or chicken to china. supposedly because of health

standards. mark: i know it is not koala bear. but still. >> they love our chicken feet. they go into a very fray grant soup. mark: there you go? they are trying to find ways to implement the president's decision that china is not going to surpass america while he is president. mark: what about this effort that the chinese have where, like a mortgage company or bank, they go into the third world, africa, they go into our hemisphere, lend countries in enormous amount of money, they have collateral like a port, public utility. they can pay them back and then the chinese acquire these assets. are they countering that? >> under president obama that was not countered. this began in 2013 or 2014 by

xi xinping himself. this is the belt and road initiative. this is linked to their export markets. they want to use chinese standards for the digital part of the belt and road. president trump's strategy has been to counter these chinese offers. he has the ex-im bank with a new mandate to counter these chinese offers. he has got a new entity entirely, called the development finance corporation, that again counters chinese offers. he has a series of activities by the treasury department and commerce department to not leave these countries certainly naked to the chinese, attempting to pull them into chinese export trade standards and a kind of monopoly on their trade with these countries. it is especially effective in africa. where some of the fighting back is now taking place. so this whole of government approach the president has mandated is really something quite new and the chinese, i've

noticed that they respect this as something other presidents could have, and should have done but never did. only president trump is doing it. mark: even though military, the military said the greatest threat we have is china. we have a space force. >> that is because of china i think. mark: one of the primary reasons because china is in space, with killer satellites. they're trying to develop laser weapons to put in space to knock out our gps capabilities which could knock out our cutting-edge, military strategic abilities on the ground. and in the air, correct? >> that's correct. they did a series of studies over the last 15, 20 years, that they did not ban to match the american military attending for tank, plane for plane. they wanted to focus on our weaknesses. they found out space was other weakness. we have very few satellites, intelligence gathering, if they

knock those out the first few hours of a war, they would blind the united states military. they focused a lot on that. the space force is part of president's idea to counter it. in terms of the navy, just counting number of ships, the chinese have already surpassed us in total number of navy surface ships, saab -- submarines. we claim to be ahead in quality. that is hard to measure. if you look at trends for the next 10 years, it looks bad for the size of the chinese navy. they have gone into cyber warfare very serious way. secretary rumsfeld told me in '06, how bad the cyber attacks were. it has only gotten more intense the last 14 years. we have across the board chinese focus on our military weaknesses. a lot of our military, for good reason, they want to fight in the middle east. though want to be in syria. they want to attack shiite militia and iraq. they want to keep law and order going in afghanistan.

secretary mattis used to give harsh lectures saying the war is no longer in the middle east it is china. but he wasn't able to turn the pentagon around. mark: yes or no, is this administration refocused military, national security in a big way on china? >> it certainly tried to but the power of inertia in our bureaucracy to stick with the old threat of the middle east, it is still there. mark: what about congress? >> congress is out ahead. they have gotten quite excited about the china threat. there is a requirement now to explain what china is up to, to the congress. mark: all right. good. we'll be right back. motor? nope. not motor? it's pronounced "motaur."

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disappear, their leading doctors gone, our media -- what other media are saying there is not a lot of first han reporting on how it began what took place. >> no, the chinese were afraid 10 years ago that internet would be source of information and freedom. they had a serious effort that has been successful to censor the internets and put all stories up that are more pro -- communist, you see this with party, beginning in end of december, certain key words, including virus were banned from the chinese internet. that is how they blocked the doctor's early warning in end of december, the computer system is effective in glkin blocking our

knowledge. >> a lot of their pro propagands comes out of mouths of critics of the president the united states, they must be loving the attacks on the president, who is doing everything they president can do to address this, our media are not really focused on how this came to be, what is going on in china. they are not revealing propaganda effort, the president is in a tough pickle, but he doing a hell of a job. >> i have a lot of praise for the president myself, i hear it from the chinese, they wonder why no previous president ever took them on this way, his whole of government strategy is part of it toughness with xi jinping is part of it, but something else that president trump has a faith that america will not yield world supremacy on china.

he will do pretty much anything to stop that. mark: all right, thank you, sir. >> it wil -- mark: see you next time on life, liberty and levin. >> breaking tonight, president trump urges an end to coronavirus panic buying, imploring americans to be smart but do not horde all of the food. >> you don't have to buy so much, take it easy just relax, there is no shortage, their are no shortage other than people buy from 3 to 5 times what they would normally by. steve: this is california gov for gavin newsom announces a huge step. >> we're calling for home isolation of all of those 65 years and older. and those with