tomorrow night hopefully with the whole show we will see you at 7:00. tucker is up next. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." amazingly enough, life is returning to normal in the city that started it all after twogh and a half months. the chinese government has ended the lockdown of wuhan. as we have throughout this crisis, we will begin by going to chief breaking news correspondent trace gallagher who has more on that development as well as the latest numbers from across the country.y. >> the lockdown in wuhan lasteds 76 days, and chinese authorities are allowing the 11 million residents there to travel in and out of the city as long as they are healthy, and their health is mainly determined by a mandatory smartphone application that allows the chinese government to surveil and track cell phone data. in other words, the government would know if you had contact with somebody who is contagious.

here in the united states, new york and new jersey remain the hot spots and both have their deadliest days yet, 731 people died in new york, 229 in new jersey. the rate of patients being admitted to hospitals and icus is slowing significantly in both states, that's a key signal that the curve is flattening. meanwhile, louisiana is also a hot spot and had its highest day of death but the state is seeing a number of hospitalizations move in the right directions. here is governor, watch. >> we cannot say with absolute confidence that the curve is flattening, but we are still seeing more evidence that we are moving in that direction. >> california is also seeing its curve flattened, has been very steady for almost a week now.s governor gavin newsom says the state won't peak until may, thoughso it remains unclear exactly what model he's relyingg

on. and wag we should note that with relatively few cases are seeing a jump in their daily average increase including idaho, oklahoma, and wyoming. tucker. >> tucker: trace gallagher, thank you so much for that. those are the numbers as of tonight. the question is what happens next, that's what appears to be a precinct full of questions. when will new york city reach the peak of its outbreak? new york of course being the place with the most cases in this country and youou think the epidemiologist could answer that question with some precision but as it turns out, it can't. predicted the peak would come this week ahead of april 15th, the state's health commissioner meanwhile thought late april or early may. the predictions differed by a full month at a time when new york has quarantined and people are still dying, that is a very big range of answers. summed up the current state of knowledge this way, "in reality, we don't know."

we don't know. people were hospitalized for on april 2nd, 1400 people in new york, the highest number recorded the next day, and a total drop to 1,095 and then on sunday, and fell to 358. new hospitalizations have picked up once again but still far below last thursday's peak, if this trend holds, but if it does, the worst may already be over for new york. all of this has come as a surprise to our public health authorities and a welcome surprise to those watching for us watching. the health institute for health metrics and evaluation is well-regarded research center run from the university of washington. has produced predictions for the course of this epidemic here in the united states as well as other countries. their model has done perhaps any other piece of academic research to shape our response to the

coronavirus crisis. so accurate has that model been? here are some numbers. initially, they predicted that on april 4th, the state of new york would require 65,000 hospital beds to handle infected patients. the low-end estimate was nearly 48,000 beds and they had fewerte than 16,000 hospitalizations fell below the model's bojections as well, over the weekend they updated its model, across the countries and yet they are still significantly overstated. for example, today which is april 7th, they predict that new york will need 25,000 hospital beds. as of this morning, it was just under 17,500. the new model also predicted that as of today, almost 6,600 people would be in intensive care and actual numbers just under 4600. in florida, it predicted 4,000 people would be hospitalized. the reality is that not even

2,000 are in it wasn't just florida and new york. they got it wrong in state after state after state. for america, this is great news and we should celebrate it. it's much better than we thought. so on the question of total deaths, the model has been more accurate, though it still tends to overshoot. yesterday, they predicted 784 deaths per new york. finish the day with about 600. critics about 200 deaths today and sadly, seems like we'll finish somewhere around that number. but that may not be the whole story. thereot is new wants within thoe numbers because there always is in social science. for many years, the cdc has lracked the total number of visits of americans who die every week for pneumonia and that number has come in far lower than at the same moment in previous years. how could that be? it is entirely possible that doctors are classifying conventional pneumonia deaths as covid-19 deaths which was mean it's being credited for thousands of deaths that would have occurred if the virus never

appeared here. we don't know that for certain but it is certainly worth considering. no one knows exactly why the model predicted so many more hospitalizations than we have actually had. you will hear people say that this is evidence that the shutdowns and social distancing must be working. but not so fast, they were built into the model they've already been taken into account we are still doing far better than what epidemiology experts believe is a best-case scenario so, so as we move forward, how did this happen? it is possible the virus is just less deadly than we feared it was are less likely to send people to the hospital. maybe it spreads less easily than we thought it data may be it spreads more easily and the number of asymptomatic carriers is higher than we knew. mar all of those reasonable theories, we don't know which one could be true. then there's this, mit economist said americans are following

jeffrey harri social distancing guidelines more effectively than authorities ever imagine they would and that's another potential explanation. whatever's happening, this evidemic appears to be doing less damage than anticipated and it is receding more quickly. not so long ago, some of our leaders seemed on the verge of panic. from march 24th, governor cuomo of new york descended into a state of frenzy might dismiss the federal assistance new york had received as grossly inefficient. tens of thousands of innocent new yorkers were going to die, he o said, they will choke to death while doctors do nothing to help them. watch.? fema said we are sending ventilators. really? what am i going to do with 400 ventilators when i need 30,000? you pick the 26,000 people who were going to die because he 6,only sent 400 ventilators. 400. >> tucker: you pick the people who are going to die? it was effective theater but it was awful, what a horrifying thought that was.

as recently as last friday, april 3rd, governor cuomo threatened to use the national guard to see his ventilators from facilities upstate. that's how badly new york needed them. except he didn't need them. as it turned out, new york has many more beds and ventilators than it needs. >> equipment, the protective equipment, ventilators where we are stretching and moving, but every hospital has what they need today. >> tucker: so miscalculations like the ones you just saw played out across the country and state after state. on march 14th, for example, the governor of oregon warned that her state's 688 ventilators wouldn't be nearly enough to handle the coming surge of coronavirus cases. turns out she got it backward. oregon had more ventilators than it needed someone april 4th, governor brown shipped 152 new york which based on current trends may not need them either. once again, we have to celebrate

all of this. fewer hospitalizations are a godsend for this country and as awful as this epidemic has been and will be at least so far it hasn't been the disaster that we feared. our health care system hasn't collapsed, that was the key concern except in a handful of places, has become very close. patients are not dying alone in the hallways of emergency rooms with physicians to overwhelm to treat them. happens in other countries, it is not happening here. thank god for that. all of this means that the short-term crisis, the ones that inworried about so fervently which pressure on hospitals grei so exponentially day by day, that short-term crisis may have passed. but it looks like it may have. now it's time to look ahead. the virus is doing less systemic damage to our system, then presumably we can begin tom, consider how to improve the lives of the rest, the countless americans who have been grievously hurt by this.

by a response to this. how do we get 17 million of our most vulnerable citizens back to work? that's our task. other countries are already hard at work doing it. adjusted for population, denmark's coronavirus outbreak has been almost as preciselyut s severe as ours has in u.s. in denmark, schools and day care centers are planned to open up next week. the government plans to roll back more restrictions tenth. they outbreak in austria has also been similar in scope to america per capita. they are, the government plans to let themm open april 14 followed by large doors on may 1st and potentiallyrg restaurants and schools in the middle of may. so that's what they're doing. we are not doing that here. we are not even talkingt about doing that because were not allowed to. any discussion of how we might transition out of the shut down back into normal life for some reason has become taboo in thiss country. go ahead and raise the question, you'll find it announced as a tool of wall street who doesn't care about human life up off and denounced by pro-choice activists who were happy cash and the layers of irony are

bottomless. we shouldn't be surprised by any of this. this is what happens when healthy public debate ispr replaced by memes and mindless partisans on social media defining the terms of allowable conversation and so we plowed forward as if the flawed models weren't flawed at all. because of the reality of what is actuallyy happening in our hospitals should play no role at all and the decisions we make going forward. dr. anthony fauci has announced that americans must brace for 18 months of shutdowns at the absolute minimum and if a vaccine isn't found, it could go on forever. >> if that means acting like there never was a coronavirus problem, i don't think that's going to happen until we do have a situation where you can completely protect the ntpopulation. you want to get to precoronavirus, that might not ever happen in the sense of the fact that the threat is they are. -- there.

>> tucker: so life may never return to normal in this country. we may never regain what we've lost. you're hearing a lot of people say that all of a sudden and it's becoming a species of conventional wisdom. on msnbc last night, where often conventional wisdom is born, zeke emanuel explained that america wouldth be shuttered for 18 months at least. >> realistically, covid-19 will be here for the next 18 months or more. we will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine for effective medications. ine know that is dreadful news o hear. how are people supposed to find work if this goes on in some form for a year and a half? is all that economic pain worth trying to stop covid-19? the truth is, we have no choice. we prematurely end that physical distancing on the other measures, keeping it at bay, deaths could skyrocket into the hundreds of thousands if not the million. we cannot return to normal until

there is a vaccine. conferences, concerts, sporting events, religious services, dinner at a restaurant, none of that will resume until we find a vaccine, treatment, or cure. >> tucker: you can't go to church until we have a vaccine. the truth is, we have no choice. heard that before? that's a familiar phrase in washington and it ought to you nervous. although my orders without question or complaint or a million people will die. the oceans will rise, the polar bears will perish, the c human race itself will go extinct. okay, may be. maese are smart people, we should hear them out, but these are also big decisions. history changing decisions with consequences we can't even begin to anticipate this far out. before we go ahead and alter our lives and our country forever, it is fair to ask about the numbers, their numbers, the ones we acted on the first time that turned out to be completely twrong. how did they screw that up so thoroughly? that is a fair question. they can answer that question,

slowly, rationally in a way that makes sense and suggest a deeper humility going forward as they make more decisions, than that's adequate, that's enough. they are allowed to make moreec public policy decisions but if they can't answer that question, if they dodge or attack the people who ask it, then you know they are disqualified forever from influencing our lives. let's see if they can do it. they should. we are joined tonight by fox senior political analyst brit hume. thank you so much for coming on. i respect the public health authorities. i know models are often wrong, they are guidelines. i understand all of that but when the model is as wrong as this one has been, it means the rest of us are owed a clear explanation without finger-pointing and browbeating and we are not getting one. does that bother you? >> it does because as you pointed out, the models were the basis for these decisions that have been made, these drastic

restrictions that we have placed on ourselves as a country to combat the coronavirus. and we may or may not have flatten the curve but we've certainly flattened the economy and at least 10 million people based on their unemployment claims are out of work and millions more either are or will be soon and there are costs associated with that in terms of human suffering and anxiety and stress all of which are probably not the responsibility of the epidemiologist, but they are the ilsponsibility of the public policy makers who have been relying on these expert doctors who i think have done the best they can and because they want to test nationwide immediately, they relied on these models, these computer models particularly the one that you cited from the university of washington which as you pointed out has been way off on a number of counts up to and including as its most recent projections.

the question should be raised, was this the right call and is it really true that the reason that we are beginning to think we may have turned the corner on this because we all did with the doctor said we should do or is it because the disease turned out not to be quite as dangerous as we thought? and we are going to be debating that for a long time. >> tucker: i think that's true. less debates that are shut down, but isn't now the moment before we take the next step and talk about secondary n and third wavs of shutdowns to get an answer and why are we getting guidance on that? why aren't the people who crafted these policies standing before a microphone and explaining it away the rest of us can understand and are willing to understand why they were so totally wrong? should we know that? >> i think attempts have been made. the idea was in the early going when there is a virus first hit here, we didn't have a lot

of data for obvious reasons. there is a lot of data from overseas in places like italy and spain and the u.k. they had new data, they were further along and so a lot of our projections were based on data from overseas. at the current time, our death rate, the official death rate based on official statistics in this country is somewhere between three and a half and 4%. in europe, it's about 6% -- in europe, it's about 9% in itworldwide about 6%. so obviously, that data with those infirmities might not have been the right basis on which to project this model. and there's also this has we examine this. over the weekend, "the new york times" and "washington post" publish stories about it looks like we are obviously underestimating the fatalities from this because before we really knew more about it, a lot of people died and undoubtedly they had it so we

missed those and they should bef in the coronavirus death count uld so on. but there's another side to this, dr. birx said tonight during the briefing at the white house that all deaths from anyone who died with coronavirus is counted as if the person died from coronavirus. we all know that isn't true. i remember my own doctor telling me about prostate cancer. i didn't have it, but he said a lot more people die with it then die from it. that's a real possibility, that people have this disease and a lot of people are asymptomatic and they have other terrible diseases. everybody is being automatically classified has found to have covid-19 as a covid-19 death, it will get a very large number of deaths that way and probably not going to have an accurate count of what the real death total is. >> tucker: and there may be reasons that people seek an accurate death count a that we n address that. i'm not accusing anybody. >> i don't think that they're

doing that. >> tucker: i'm not accusing them of that at all. but when journalists work with numbers, there sometimes is an agenda unfortunately. great to see you tonight, thank you. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: michigan lawmaker democrat nearly died from the coronavirus. she says that hydroxychloroquine saved her life. an interesting story and it cuts against a lot of the propagandah you've been hearing about this topic. i hope you'll join us when she returns next. ♪ you doing okay?

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karen is a state representative in michigan. she began experiencing coronavirus symptoms in mid-march and then went way downhill. for two weeks, she said she felt no better and then on march 31st, she was prescribed hydroxychloroquine. within hours, she says she began improving. she credits the president was saving her life by bringing attention to that antimalarial drug. representative joins us tonight along with her physician. thank you both, representative and doctor for joining us tonight. first, just describe quickly if you could hear experience, you are very sick, critically sick erwith this virus. you took this drug, what happened? >> first, thank you for having me on. i really appreciate the opportunity to share. >> tucker: of course. >> just a real brief synopsis of it is i had sweats really bad, a headache that i just could notot

get rid of. i didn't have body aches, but my neck was really bad, and i just did not feel right, my eyes were getting smaller and i just did not feel right. so i did contact my doctor and he did listen to me. >> tucker: so you're a politician, obviously you know politics, it's what you do. are you surprised that this drug, this medicine which helpsy save your life you say has become a political issue? >> actually, not surprised that it's become a political issue. there are so many politicspr and policies surrounding medicine, medication, medical equipment, this is actually the norm, this is why we do have health policy and have people on these committees. i have lyme disease so i've been fighting for lyme disease policies within my district

within my state for since i started, so i'm not surprised at all. >> tucker: you make a fair point. he were apparently prescribed tn the representative, why did you do that, do you credit this drug for helping her, and eat do you prescribe it to others? >> thank you. we have had so far in our i practice about 56 cases of covid-19 and of the 56, we are prescribing this to the patients who have moderate to severe illness and those conditions where this is kind of a spectrum of patients that we are prescribing that are not really very sick to be admitted in the icu, and so we are trying to prevent this small group of 12 of them got this medicine and karen was one of them that raise the patients who are going to get that

symptoms and congestion and fever and trying to prevent the medical problems, has lyme disease that makes it worse in these conditions we are treating it with two and one, antibiotic and antimalarial medicines. which is hydroxychloroquine. in these medicines right now so far we don't have really good treatment strategies for covid-19. all the medicines that we are using are mostly experimental or anecdotal. so we are ending up with very limited spectrum, and we don't have much in that, but it seems to work. k.ithromycin which is an antibiotic seems to work and i also think hydroxychloroquine is also not only just used for the malaria medicine, we are forgetting that this medicine actually it is a disease modifying agent that is used in treatment of chronic rheumatoid

arthritis and individuals who have chronic arthritic diseases. this helps a great deal. so i think what it is doing is it is reducing the inflammation, so i think this is very important clinically right now to look into it. i think a lot of other institutional organizations have started searching for it. >> tucker: apparently they have. doctor, thank you for joining us. i just want to congratulate you on being okay and surviving, and i think it takes some political courage to come on the show so we are grateful that you did, thank you very much. >> thank you, and just so i can add, i didn't have the typicalus symptoms, so he did save my life and i do credit the president for doing so in putting this out there because it was inaccessible to me if it was before that fact. i had very little time to be able to get to this and be able

to make that because my breathing did become very labored. >> tucker: i just find it amazing that you're saying that out loud, and i appreciate that you are because this isn't about politics. it's about saving people and you know that, thank you very much. >> people over politics. >> tucker: amen. and it feels weird to say this and it's hard to believe, but they recover you just heard about may be sadness for a lot in the media. they have been fanatically wedded to the idea that hydroxychloroquine is useless, even dangerous. why do they think this? the president hopes otherwise. notth exaggerating. >> despite only having a background as a businessman, president trump is offering free medical advice or urging americans to load up on an unproven drug used for malaria patients. >> experts say there isn't enough clinical data to show it's effective for coronavirus and there are some serious side effects. >> there is not the kind of

wealth of evidence that experts and doctors need to see. >> he is pushing things that are absolutely not proven. it's not just a role, it is veering into the dangerous. >> we continue today to push hydroxychloroquine in a way that is baffling to medical professionals. >> tucker: watching people in the media talk down a potentially life-saving medicine because a politician they don't like has endorsed it is probably the most shameful thing i have ever seen. it's making a lot of us ashamed to work in the same profession, so reckless and wrong in the middle a pandemic. it really is for real. dr. marc siegel joins us tonight. why is it so hard to assess the medicine and medical terms? doesn't matter who is for or against it, doesn't matter what politician says what or doesn't about the medicine, the only thing that matters is whether il

works or am i missing something? >> you're totally right, and that's where we are right now. we are in a situation where we have a virus that is spreading and killing people and making people sick and we need to figure out whether there's something that makes sense in this particular drug has been used a lot. now, what does it do? here are some effects that are interesting. there's a study out of france right now that shows in combination with an antibiotic that was mentioned, it decreases the amount of circulating virus. also, it's been shown to decrease uptake into the cell. also, it's been shown to decrease the kinds of inflammation that leads to the kind of, inflammatory pneumonias that were actually seen. that's all in the background of this. now, this clinical trial is emerging in records at nyu. there is one coming out in china right now. preliminary and 62 patients and

then a decrease in severity early in the game before we end up hospitalized before we end up on the ventilator. so if you've taken to an account the side effects and there are some, you may decide that it's well worth it for particular patients. i want to tell you about a 96-year-old man in florida who said one night i don't think i'm going to make it. i feel very weak. the end is coming, i'm short of breath, can't get up from the couch. the next day, he was on hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics for his cardiologist. he got up the next day and was fine. this man my father. tucker. >> tucker: while, that couldn't be a clearer and heavier example. thank you for that tonight. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: this really is one of the most shameful moments in the history of american media on that drug specifically. they have no idea that works or not and they're telling you it doesn't because they are political partisans. coronavirus has caused manyme a police departments to step back from enforcing the law, not

surprisingly criminals are taking advantage of that. in the city of new york, crime is surging and we will tell you about it after the break. ♪ these folks, they don't have time to go to the post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer

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♪ >> light from america's news headquarters i'm in i'm anita vogel. president trump said the u.s. might be getting to the top of the curve of the coronavirus

outbreak reiterating he wants to reopen the economy soon. speaking during tuesday's briefing, mr. trump said the federal government has more than 8500 ventilators for states that need them with 110,000 to be delivered in the coming weeks. in the meantime the u.s. death toll nearing 13,000. new york state reporting 731 new deaths tuesday. that is the biggest one-day jump since the operation began. and the ballots, a special primary despite stay-at-home voters. it is the first state to host a primary contest in three weeks but due to a court ruling, results might not be made available before april 13th. i'm anita vogel and we will take you back to "tucker carlson tonight." >> tucker: whether you're healthy or you're sick, pretty much everyone in this country is suffering he thinks that is pandemic but there is big exception, and one group is thriving. it is criminals. in the mass closure of stores has resulted in predictably a massive surge in break-ins according to the new york city

police department, burglariesre are wrapped 75% compared to last year. robberies are up 400%. you are a criminal, why not try? if they catch you, new york's bail law means you will be released without cash bail. tammy bruce on fox nation joins us tonight, thank you so much for coming on. some ofhi all the things to wory about, i'm sure people will sayf why should i care if a bodega gets robbed? i guess the much bigger concern is we are starting to see the society fray andge from there, things can move really quickly in the wrong direction. are you concerned about that?on >> yes, so i stayed in manhattan through this process and is very eerie because one of the things that makes you feel safe in manhattan especially as a woman is that they were so many people on the street. that of course is over now so there's a general sense of foreboding when you do go out at any point because there is no one around, may be jogging or getting some fresh air walking

their dog but very few people. also several hundred nypd officers have been stricken it as an equal opportunity dynamic so you have fewer police, the national guard coming in but it's going to be mostly for medical. so in the midst of these neighborhoods, we already have shop sporting themselves up anticipating this dynamic and then you have the release of not just the no bail law which has been awful releasing criminals with no real repercussions for certain kinds of crime, but now they've got a list of individuals they've already released about 900 from people from rikers island and othereo jails who they feel are particularly at risk for the virus. if you are nonviolent, nonviolent people will be released others fewer people being sick but abce news receivd a list. and that actually included violent offenders awaiting trial. "the new york post" reports on a 63-year-old man awaiting trial for attempted murder was

released because he may be at higher risk. two men involved in an armed robbery where a new york police detective was killed were also on the list to be released, so they tell you there's nonviolent offenders being released, but that is not true. finally, prosecutors had to intervene. r so new yorkers are the first victims here. has nothing to do with politics. i'm sure they voted for many of these politicians who are making these choices, and we all in our neighborhoods have to worry about the nature of whether or not we are going to be safe because of a previous decision, the bad policy decision that both albany, new york, and cuomo has made as well as as well as de blasio. and we see our lives kind of crumbling within a social structure and safety framework and that's the last thing we need right now, obviously. >> tucker: it takes hundreds of years to build a society dysfunctional, this complex,

this clean and orderly and happy and it can go south really fast and i just hope that we appreciate that. can make them you are brave for staying there and we appreciate the update. >> this is a great city and its worth saving. >> tucker: amen. this sunday coming up as eased her for at least a few churches in america will likely try to celebrate. will we see the police lock mechristians from practicing thr religion? whether it be illegal if they even try to go to church? we will tell you after the break but first, no footage out of lockdown california. >> tucker: increasingly in i always dreamed of

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>> tucker: increasingly in this country, the political response seems more moral than practical. so leader like virginia's governor clans road blackface signals is a virtue imposing lengthy lockdowns and enforcing them beyond the reason makes a leader seems strong and virtuous. there were many examples of overzealous enforcement piling up in colorado, man was arrested for playing t-ball in the park with his wife and daughter. in pennsylvania, a woman was pulled over for driving her karl malone.in in california, a man was arrested for paddle boarding

also alone. he was on the ocean and so on. more stories like that coming soon. easter is sunday. christians around the world will celebrate and in this country, churches have many cases shut down voluntarily and others have been ordered to close by state governments. it's possible we will see something we never imagined in this country, easter celebrations broken up by the police.e you can still go to the grocery store and the pharmacy and still have communion in the produce aisle at safeway, but churches? we will find out if that's allowed. someone who has thought deeply about this question and recently wrote about in "the federalist" is a constitutional lawyer and one of the president's attorneys who joins us now. thank you so much for coming on tonight. >> tucker: and you think it is possible, but i hate even to say this out loudvi because it doesn't seem like america, but that you could have church services broken up on easter sunday? >> it's definitely possible and we're seeing all of these principles of constitutional law and liberty really being challenged today in america and fi think it's great that is

causing americans to turn back toward what our fundamental rights and liberties mean in this country and also what is the limited power of government in order to police these types of measures. as of the question we have to first ask ourselves is what about our rights and liberties is not absolute and where can the limited power of government come in and step in and where are the lines they are? to the constitution and the constitutional analysis has always required a compelling state interest that is narrowly tailored by the least restrictive means. so what does that actually mean? imagine you are in a car headed down the road going fine and you have some state enforcements in check, wearing your seat belt, airbags, licenses and insurance but then out of nowhere, there is a curve and the state has to make sure you are protected. so they slam on the brakes. that's what happened here is that we have slammed on the brakes completely. but how do we then go about saying we can just stop entirely

and completely, weel still haveo move forward. we have to navigate that curve appropriately, that means that we can't just come to a complete standstill forever, but we can't go 65 miles an hour right away. so that's what it means to be narrowly tailored to the principle here is that where the state enforcement authorities are coming in and saying churches, you aree not essentia, but we're saying that the samend exact restrictions that we could allow for places like grocery stores can't apply to churches just because they are considered nonessential, i don't think that's the proper constitutional question and that's why president trump is being so wise to say states, you need to look at this because if the enforcement infringes on the constitution, itou will be up to those state and local leaders to defendant in court.. -- defend it in court. >> tucker: the other concern is there is no group the news media and leaders hate more than

traditional christians. blame the whole pandemic on evangelicals. as if they have something to do with it. i'm just concerned, and it's a fair concern that this will be leveraged to crush a group they already hate. are you c worried about that? >> i'm very worried about that and as an evangelical christian myself, a very outspoken christian, i share president trump's concern. he wanted to reopen churches and i think that some of these pastors that are simply a exercising civil disobedience and saying we are just going to flout the state enforcement orders are not helping religious liberty whatsoever but at the same time, we have an obligation and a duty as individuals and as someone who values the free exercise of religion to make sure that the states aren't going too far and not saying you have to shut down, you can't broadcast even online. so the question i think that is the wrong analysis is trying to get an exemption saying consider us essential, why should the state governors be able to

determine what is and is not essential to society? churches absolutely are essential and that's not the question. it's whether or not churches can implement the same exact regulation as some other service regardless of what service it is that they're providing. >> tucker: okay, i'm not an evangelical but i know what the truth is which is they are really hated above all groups by a lot of people in washington and new york and they deserve to be protected for real i think. great to see you tonight, thankk you. so even if this pandemic who receives this summer, many experts think it could come back in the fall with a change of weather. how can we prepare for that?co we probably should be thinking about it now. one of the smartest people in the business of thinking about it joins us after the break. ♪ and spray. well, we used to.

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like no contact delivery, to ensure it. ♪ >> tucker: so you are hearing a lot of speculation that this virus could be seasonal like other respiratory illnesses and it could receive in the summer with the warmer weather and we're back in the fall and winter. because of this, you're hearing experts say that this country may reopen for the summer and then return to lock down next fall. think that through for a second. a lot of damage has been committed after only a month of shutdowns. avoiding a second wave might be a very good idea. can we do that and if so what should we do? dr. michael oster

university of minnesota and joins us tonight. doctor, thanks so much for coming on. could this come back in fall and winter. second, is there anything we can do to prevent that? >> first of all, i don't know if we can say there'll be any seasonality to this. if this acts like an influenza panic did which it seems to be doing right now, those are situations where for about two years after the original introduction, waves would come and go. depending on what month of the year the pandemic started, six months later, it would just continue. the bottom line message you have here is a really important one is we are all obviously occupied and terribly concerned with what's happening right now but we could be in the first inning in a nine inning game where we get 18 or more months left until we get a vaccine. we understand that's the kind of planning we have to deal with, playing for a long term future

situation. >> tucker: this may be a pointless question but is there any way to know at this point? >> we've been predicting the situation for late december or early on thinking it was going to be a mers or sars infection, and we knew by january 20th that this would be a worldwide pandemic, that this is very much like influenza transmission. and everything that's happened since then to support that, even these early big outbreaks you see in large much of alternaria's. so i'm going to continue to make the assumption that it's going to be like influenza and in fact this is only infected 10%-20% of the population. that may be very high in many areas, that means we have a lot many other people still vulnerable to this that this virus will come back. take a look at asia. i heard over and over again in the past several weeks, we just got to do it like the asians did it, we can shut it down. right now, singapore has just declared a state of emergency,

japan, seeing cases come back in china. the bottom line message is that it's going to come around, going to come back, and roughly like 1918 or like 1957-'58 because waves of illness that will occur in the same cities in some cases for several more years potentially. >> tucker: the 30 seconds we have left, do you think will get larger and my tests soon so we know the scope of this? >> yes, we are. when you say randomized tests, i a good antibody or virus culture antigen test. as we talked before on the show, it's about supply chain. it's not about money. we have all the money in the world. you can't build something overnight and we are just really needing to rush these kind of factories that can make reagents, the way we can test for things, we need that very badly. then we can get a better handle on it. but for right now, we are grab sampling what's out there what we can fully contest. in our own state of minnesota,

we know we don't nearly have enough testing. >> tucker: that's really the last thing. i hope you'll come back. happy, thank you. we are out of time for tonight, unfortunately. we'll be back tomorrow. in the meantime, sean hannity takes over from new york. hey, sean. >> sean: welcome to "hannity." the president of the united states donald trump will join us live in an exclusive interview. first we have major progress reports in the fight against the coronavirus. we call it fact without fear, hysteria, fearmongering. we have a ton of good news tonight in tough times to cover including significant facts that should give all of us hope. and let's start o on the outbrek epicenter which is new york and long island, new jersey, connecticut. here are now in york showing major signs of improvement, despite really scary projections only days ago, new hospitalizations, and now approximately half of what they were last week. a