she's doing her part, staying home, staying safe. we commend her for that. >> ed: healthy at 93. great to be with you as always, sandra. >> sandra: you, too, ed. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: we begin with this fox news alert, the coronavirus fight has reached historic levels as the united states has surpassed italy for the world's highest reported death toll. more than 22,000 people have died in america. while president trump is now the first president ever to declare major disasters for all 50 states at the same time, at once. we've got that. infectious disease expert dr. thomas ingalls b of johns hopkins university says we are now at a critical stage. >> we are near a plateau in the number of cases, which would be reaching a peak. in some places like new york, which has had terrible disease, new york city, which has had

terrible impact with this epidemic, we have had a few days of similar case count states today. that is what we might call a peak. it doesn't mean that the downslope of the peak is going to be fast. >> harris: you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. marie harf, executive director of the serve america pac and fox news contributor. dr. janette nesheiwat, family and emergency medicine physician and fox news contributor. a medical contributor. joining us now in the center box, guy benson, most of the guy benson radio show on fox news radio, and also a member of our fox news contributor family. you, as we say, guy, are a guy who is our number. were all in together, aren't we? >> guy: we are, it's weird to be here under the strange circumstances. more than ever i miss the couch, but will be back one day. >> harris: absolutely. we want to start off real

quickly with these new numbers that are out. i just want to get your overall impression of where we are. you travel up and down the eastern corridor and see the shelter in place, that 90% of americans across the country are feeling. >> guy: you look at the numbers, 22,000, highest overall death toll in the world. those are very sobering, of course. every single one is a tragedy, which is why when you try to put numbers in context it might sound like you are minimizing. which is not the intent. one death is too many, 22,000 is an absolute catastrophe for the country. i do want to just point out that when we hear this discussion of the highest death toll in the world, that is, taking china at its word -- which i don't think we should do, and there is significant evidence their numbers are way off and they've been suppressing the truth. when you adjust per capita, not just total raw numbers of deaths, as ghoulish as that is,

if you do it based on the population, the size of the country, around the world, all these various nations, we are actually in relatively good shape compared to spain, italy, france, the u.k., sweden, and others. i think we are getting our arms around it. it is extremely painful, and these milestones are really tough to watch and to pass from day-to-day, but i think taking a step back and getting some perspective is also important as we analyze the data. >> harris: you know, dr. nesheiwat, one of the things we have been watching together, you and i often will talk about the number of recovered. today, through our brain room research, i tried to find a harder number. here is the caveat atop the research that they handed me. "there is no consistent, accurate tracking of this metric. the take away is many states are not yet reporting that information, as they do actually with the pandemic." right now the number we are looking at is 440,922 around the

world, who have recovered. 41,871 people in the united states. i just want to get your first reaction to that number. again, we don't have the total picture. >> dr. nesheiwat: yeah, you are absolutely right, harris. i hate to say it, but those numbers, i think, are very, very underestimated. you know, if you look at it, i, for example, will swab maybe 5-6 patients were coronavirus out of about 50. when i know most of them have coronavirus. if i'm only able to get a positive result on a small fraction of my patients, where i know most of them are positive, that tells me these numbers are underestimated. the numbers, they are much higher. there's a lot more cases, in my opinion. and a lot more patients that are asymptomatic that we can't even account for because we can't test for asymptomatic patients right now because we don't have the resources. it's bittersweet. that could be a good thing on

one end, that we aren't having the numbers as high as they really are. actually knowing that those numbers are inaccurate. hopefully, with time, we will get more resources, more tools to be able to better test and to know exactly where we are moving in this country. >> harris: yeah, and you may not have understood exactly what i was saying. i was saying those are the people who have recovered. we actually want to be able to know how many there are, especially as we talk about doing antibody testing, so on and so forth. what you're saying is -- and i wrote it down -- these are woefully underestimated. >> dr. nesheiwat: right. >> harris: if more people are recovering, that can only be a good thing. >> dr. nesheiwat: right, but you also have patients who are asymptomatic carriers who will recover and then test negative. we'll never know. even if they were asymptomatic and they looted tested negative, that's the number that, still, whether they have recovered or that we know have recovered, i know it's confusing but it is still a number that is

underestimated. because there are so many that have it that we don't know have it, that have also recovered. still a good number, though. >> harris: that's an excellent point. >> dr. nesheiwat: we just want to see continuous -- >> harris: well, we'll move to this. the new questions about president trump's relationship now with the top disease expert, dr. anthony fauci. that member of the task force who we see with the president most days. this is coming after the president retweeted a post that was critical of dr. fauci, and called for his firing. that coming shortly after the doctor said this about whether the united states could have acted sooner in response to the spread of covid-19. watch. >> i mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. obviously, no one is going to deny that. but what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated. if we had it right from the very beginning, shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different.

but there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then. >> harris: dr. fauci has run the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases for more than three decades, and threw six administrations, just to give you a little perspective on his background. marie, what is the significance of what we watched play out this weekend on this matter? >> marie: dr. fauci has, throughout this entire crisis, been a voice of scientific reason, of scientific facts. i think that's what you see him get so much widespread acclaim from both democrats and republicans, across the partisan spectrum. people are looking to dr. fauci to tell the truth. that's what he did this weekend. i think that's why he's in this position, that's why i'm glad he still in his position, because that's what scientists and doctors need to do. i have long ago given up trying to read the tea leaves of donald trump's twitter, and try and parse out from that what might come policy wise. but i hate the fact that he

retweeted someone calling for dr. fauci's firing. if he did, if president trump did anything to sideline dr. fauci, to try and move him out of such a prominent role, i hope he would hear pushback from democrats and republicans. because dr. fauci has played such an important role in helping the american people understand this crisis, harris. >> harris: you know, there seems to be, melissa, bipartisan agreement on what marie harf just said. i will take it a step further, though. the palace intrigue and the fighting, i just -- i don't know if we have time for that. [laughs] like, as a nation, melissa. >> melissa: yes. we absolutely don't. although, when you say that he went out this weekend and told the truth, the implication is that the president is not telling the truth. i don't think that's accurate. i think with the president is reacting to is this idea that he takes his responsibility for the

health and welfare of the american people very personally, very seriously. so i would imagine that, when he feels like someone is attacking him, potentially, for not doing his very best to safeguard america's health and welfare, he gets very angry. that's where those tweets come from. he just takes it incredibly personally. i agree with marie, i think dr. fauci is somebody who both sides really trust, and it's essential that he is part of the conversation, and that he continues in his post. i think that all of us, we take comfort in the fact that these two do disagree, and move on. dr. fauci has said repeatedly, "the president listens to me even when we disagree. he listens to me and we have a conversation. i hear him, he hears me." she is right, that is essential going forward. >> harris: you know, guy, i look at this -- and i wrote down

a note to myself about when i watch public people fight, and how usually, as most of his pointing out, the debate sometimes can be edifying. because one person has your point of view on the other doesn't, so on and so forth, and how they work it out. i think melissa is right about that. it's pretty healing to see that go forth. at least you think it's not about who is right but what is right. which is always my goal. i do have to say, though, at times, the public fight is not helpful. when it's just about the sniping. ready but this? >> guy: with dr. fauci in this little flap involving the weekend, when you watch the full interview he did on another network they got some attention, he was in some ways defending the president. because there were people out there, a cnn doctor saying, "oh, they should have acted sooner, they were far too late to do what was necessary." dr. fauci came back and said, "actually, it's not that simple for these various reasons."

he ended the president on the same page here. there is a fringe of people, it's deeply responsible, want to see dr. fauci fired. i think that is really a terrible idea for the country. even if you disagree with what he's done, if you think we've gone too far, to fire this man who is an eminent expert i think would be a disastrous mistake. the thing that is also bothersome to me, harris, is the degree to which some in the media seemed very invested in this palace intrigue plot line, where they sort of stoke every member. almost like they are trying to goad the president into doing something that would be very bad for the country but could be bad for him politically. they love expressing concerns about how this might happen. it almost feels like a perverse routine, and i wish they would knock that off. >> harris: i almost put in another lane, too. you can have that point of view that it's political, or this might even be worse. is it personal? are they looking for those

moments to light up themselves, a moment that isn't really even focus on? i don't know, it's just a question. dr. nesheiwat, i want to go to you before we go to a quick break just to get your take on this. dr. fauci, i spit out a couple lines about his resume. when you look at this, what do you make of the going back and back-and-forth? >> dr. nesheiwat: ? >> dr. nesheiwat: i have so much was pork respect for dr. fauci.i watchedw yesterday. that network, they twisted his words. he didn't say, "yes, we should have done this." he said, "coulda, shoulda, woulda." of course it could have been a better outcome. he was generalizing in his statement. they twisted his words. he was doing anything in his power to protect americans. that's what we need. >> harris: interesting. you know, for a while, about this time we had been hearing

regularly from governor cuomo. one thing that he said, guy -- i heard you say "mm-hmm as dr. nesheiwat was talking -- that the time to look back is not this time. he said it in many different ways. he said no blue states, no red states, just red, white, and blue. a quick last thought and will move on. >> guy: there will be lots of time for finger-pointing, and it's already here in some ways. i think ultimately -- and we'll talk about this later in the program -- the results are going to be what matters most. a lot of the partisan food fighting currently happening, i think it's probably a big turnoff to most people who just want their families to get back to work, but they want to be healthy first and foremost. >> harris: all right. well, together on a monday. a part but together, all of us. we will scoot to the commercial. top health officials are debating when and how to restart the u.s. economy, as guy was just talking about. whether america is ready for a

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♪ >> melissa: president trump announcing a decision to reopen the economy will be made shortly, saying it would be "the biggest decision i've ever had to make." this, as public health officials are debating whether the u.s.

was prepared for a return to normalcy. dr. anthony fauci over the weekend suggesting parts of the economy could possibly reopen starting in may, but the fda commissioner says much of that will depend on the availability of testing. >> it is a target. obviously we are hopeful about that target. it's too early to be able to tell that. we see light at the end of the tunnel. i think it's just too early for us to say whether may 1st is that date. >> harris: dr. nesheiwat, let me ask you. they are talking about the availability of testing. where to be stand on that? we were here in new york, we heard our governor say, "we need to have these antibody tests in place and that's how we will decide who goes back to work." we have yet to hear any information about how anyone can even get any of those tests. >> dr. nesheiwat: we still have a shortage. i'm still only able to test a fraction of my patients. the antibody test will hopefully come out in the next couple weeks. we are still continuing to do nasal swabs. only with people fo to meet

criteria. chest pain, shortness of breath, fever, low oxygen levels. those who are really sick. we have a shortage of test applies, but having antibody test will help. we won't stop using the nasal swabs of the oral swabs with the antibody tests come in. this is definitely still huge problem, in my opinion. we cannot open up on may 1st come in my opinion, unless we have enough diagnostic and testing capability tools in addition to making sure hospitals have preparedness as far as ppe and making sure, obviously, that the number of cases are on a sharp decline before we even considered reopening. may 1st, that's like two or three weeks. it's a little bit too soon in my opinion, but we can't predict the future. we need to take it week by week. >> melissa: guy, it's not an exaggeration to say that people's lives are being ruined by this. by the financial side of it. i talked to people every day,

there are hooks if you like they don't have enough money to buy food to eat, to pay the rent. there are that desperate. there are people who have already lost their entire life savings as far as starting a business, trying to hold onto a business. even in the market, whose entire net worth has been totally wiped out at this point. it's trying to balance the health side of this with the damage that's being done financially. it is as serious as the outside, when you wipe someone out entirely. that has very, very bad outcomes. what are your thoughts on that, guy? >> guy: i think vice presiden vice president pence made it important point, saying that they key is to do this -- "this" being reopening the country -- slowly but surely, but responsibly to the point where we can actually stay open. rushing it open, to then have to close it back down because the virus continues to spread, it would be cataclysmic for so many

people. but you are right, i watch a lot of tv these days. news more than usual. i think many americans are. you look at the ratings, people are concerned. they see a lot of people in studios like this who are still getting their paychecks, who are still doing our jobs every day, who can still pay their rent on their mortgages saying, "we should stay shut down for more weeks on end because x, y, and z." and they are sitting there thinking, "i'm not getting paid. my small business may never reopen if this goes on much longer." it's really, really challenging to balance, melissa, as you said. i'm of the idea that we heard, dr. fauci talked about not being a one-size-fits-all timeline or solution. we heard a few weeks ago about going county by county and assessing low risk, medium risk, high risk. in adjusting our strategy accordingly, at the federal level but also the state and local level, in terms of making these decisions. to the doctor's point that she made a moment ago, i'm not sure it's responsible or practical to do that unless and until we

really do have widespread, very available testing. whether it's antibodies or just straight up testing, so we can track things properly. it seems like we aren't there yet. again, it's an awful, awful calculus. >> melissa: yeah. meantime, the irs is announcing the first wave of coronavirus with these checks prayed that they are starting to land in americans' bank accounts, as congressional lawmakers struggle to pass additional stimulus legislation. republican leaders are proposing an additional $250 billion in funding for the paycheck protection program, while democrats are pushing for a larger package. here is g.o.p. senator tim sco senator tim scott. >> the democrats, unfortunately, blocked with a $250 billion. that, we know, needs to be done immediately. we have time to factor in the impact of phase three over the next few days. if we do it right, we can see this economy have a recovery.

if not we are only adding trillions of dollars of debt that we are going to have to figure out. >> melissa: marie, i want to start with you. no matter which side of the isle you look at this, everything that is coming from the government is a temporary band-aid. nobody is going to really be able to open their businesses and get better until there are customers out there. even the paycheck protection, if you put money in people's accounts, that is one-time, a two-time type thing. they have to get back to work. there is only so much the government can do. what are your thoughts? >> marie: there is only so much the government can do, but the government can do quite a bit. we've seen in other countries programs that are much more generous than ours here at home. they are helping the economy stabilizes in a way ours hasn't yet. congress needs to appropriate more money, much more money, to help these small businesses pay their paychecks. and, yes, you are right, it's

only a temporary solution. we've also seen at the state level unemployment funding is starting to run out. once people lose their paychecks, they go into the next government bucket of unemployment funding. so we need to keep these people getting paid as long as possible. to the question of when the economy can reopen, when people can start going back out again, we should keep in mind who makes the decision. it's actually not president trump. it is governors of states who have stayed home orders. here in washington, d.c., our mayor has a stay at home order until june in place right now. president trump and his team could set a tone. the doctors who are part of it can make a recommendation, melissa. but it's actually the state and local officials, as they should, who are going to be the ones making decisions on a case-by-case basis about when we can reopen things. >> harris: yeah, that's a good point. >> melissa: harris, one of the factors that she's talking about there, she says the state unemployment, those funds are going to run really short. that motivates those local governors to want to get people

back to work. there's only so much government money to go around. i mean, i know they are printing it as fast as they possibly can on the federal level. until people actually go back to work, one of these problems get solved. >> harris: you made two points. i'm going to make a little bit of news of what's going on here. first of all, i just want to hit what you said, melissa, because it was so critical. you can make things safe enough for people to feel they can go back to work. i don't know how the calculus happens they make people feel safe enough to crowd the malls and go back to what they were doing before, so on and so forth, to boost the economy via retail and buying come of the way that we had. are we going to see a new normal in that sense? i want to get this in, though. because marie harf just made a good point. moments ago i had mentioned governor cuomo, about this time you will make remarks. well, now he's planning for later today. marie, here's what he says. as a governor, he wants to work with the nearby over governors about how we can come up with a reopening plan and get everybody back on the same plan.

a coordinated regional plan. he says he'll be making an announcement later today to talk about those neighboring states and how they can do that together. 2:00 p.m. eastern. melissa, i want to go straight to you with this. what would that entail? you bring up a great point, state and employment. i mean, what do they have to do kind of in a coordinated way, to reopen? >> melissa: well, i mean, the problem is that at this point it is really weighing on everyone's balance sheet. local governments, state governments, who are trying to support people. you have this paycheck protection program going outcome of the loans going to small businesses. when i talk to them, they say, "okay, they're going to give me money to continue pay my employees who have sent home. i don't have anything for those people to do. they're at home. maybe i can pay them, that doesn't help me stay in business." the only way this works is if the customers come back. and they feel like this loan program hasn't actually done

anything to help them, because all it does it say, "okay, i can continue paying my work is." that doesn't solve the problem that went to open up. they are getting antsy, they want this to happen. has to happen in a controlled way, as you said. it identifies maybe industries or maybe workers can come back at first in waves. i think that's probably what the governor is going to be looking at saints around us saying the same thing. what kinds of businesses can come back and open up? and what kind should be on hold? how do we do that safely? the states that are near each other have to be in unison. the government has made that point all along. if you just open up one area, people are going to flood to that area. anyway, a warning for one country that some patients who have recovered from covid-19 have since tested positive for a second time. what researchers think may be

causing this. that's next. ♪

♪ >> harris: the world health organization is now investigating, it says, reports that some coronavirus patients are testing positive for a second time after initially testing negative for the disease. this comes as south korean

officials have identified 91 patients thought to be cleared of covid-19 who then tested positive again. south korea's cdc director says the virus may have been "reactivated" rather than the patients being reinfected. dr. nesheiwat, i want to catch the fine detail that this isn't someone who tested negative and then tested positive because they were taking multiple tests. these are people who actually had covid-19 and were told they were cleared, because they first tested negative after having it, and then testing positive. those are two different situations. >> dr. nesheiwat: sure. this could be several different things going on. i've actually had a couple patients that say they got better and then they got worse again, but it was all within the same time period of about a month. it could be that it was a false negative. maybe when whoever was conducting the nasal swabs, for example, they didn't get enough specimen. so you get a false negative. this way and so important, when i saw the patient's nose, i tell

them, "relax, i have to get a good amount of specimen on the swab or we get a false negative." that's one thing. the other thing is, sadly -- and i hope this isn't the case, we still need me research -- it might not have ever exited the body in the first place. shingles, which is like a herpes type of virus, technically are only supposed to get it one time in your body develops antibodies. finally, and lastly, i hope this isn't the case, but could it be another strain that is emerging? there are variables. i'm not seeing this and a lot of my patients. the tests out of south korea on the count about 91 patients. different reasons to account for this, but it's not a major, major issue with a lot of the patients i'm seeing right now. if a patient seems to have symptoms again, we could start them back from day one, 14-day quarantine again because of the fear of spreading it. >> harris: i hope this is the

case from you, on two different things there. we just need more testing. it's something we are being told is happening, yet here on the east coast, doctor after doctor like you don't have the swabs, different materials to the testing. >> dr. nesheiwat: be to have them, but we are limited. we can only test the people who are ill and show the signs and symptoms. those who have chronic comorbidities at high risk of death. hypertension, heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease, asthma. we reserve the test for those who really need and are most vulnerable. we are getting them in as we are using them as quickly as they are coming in. antibody tests will be a huge help, and i believe more accurate than the swabs. that is something we look forward to with specificity, sensitivity of a test, to know how accurate it is. we are coming along. we just need it faster. >> harris: all right, let's go

around the horn here. melissa, we are just going to hit the doctor. >> melissa: that's where my question would come in on the antibodies. if you were tested and you have the antibodies, dr. nesheiwat, would that mean, number one, you can't contaminate other people any longer? i mean, can you infect other people if you are tested and have the antibodies, and can you get it again if you have the antibodies in your system? or as a threshold they have to hit, a certain level? how does that work? >> marie: it's a great question. we're still learning more about the answers to these questions. i hope this will be a one-off premeaning, for example, if you had mono, i if you had measles,f you had chicken pox, you have it once in your life and that's it. your body develops lifelong immunity. we don't know for sure yet. it's too early to tell. all of us, as medical providers and scientists, we hope and pray this is a one-time illness. that your body develops antibodies and you're done. usually, yes, if you develop antibodies in you are a sum to

medic, you should be able to pass it other people paid for coughing and sneezing and running a fever, its possibility. we are learning more about this virus and the antibody immune system response. >> harris: marie harf, a question for the doctor? >> marie: doctor, he mentioned how time will tell. we will only learn some of these facts as we get more testing, as more people develop antibodies. this of course is directly related to the question of when we can reopen the economy. until we have some of these answers, that decision is much harder. what is the time frame here that you would have people look to, for some of these -- for more clarity on some of these tests? >> dr. nesheiwat: realistically, i think looking at it, in the next few weeks i'm hoping the influx of more supplies of antibody testing to know if you've had it in the past, or if you have it now, in addition to the nasal swabs. i think maybe we can look at may, but a couple weeks is too

soon. we really just have to take precautions and continue to galvanize americans to be here to the guidelines until we have more data, until we see the numbers trending downward. the last thing we want to do is open up too early and then have a resurgence and spikes and peaks in cases. we don't want that to happen. that's one of my biggest fears, actually, mary. >> harris: wow. guy, jump in there. >> guy: doctor, back to this question about so-called activations, some of those concerns out of south korea. a top scientist at colombia university tweeted this earlier. "there is no data supporting that these "activations" are much more than unreliable test results and/or fluctuating viral rna." that goes to a set a mood to go. do you agree with that assessment? >> dr. nesheiwat: i do. again, a lot of it has to do with human error. if we are not getting enough specimen on the swabs, that's why you tested negative. and later, week or two later,

they swab do, a different person did that swab, and you tested positive. it's not surprising to me. we still have to make sure we treat the patient and not the test. if the patient is symptomatic, take precautions. 14 day quarantine to prevent the spread. >> harris: wow. those are wise words. treat the patient, not the test. dr. nesheiwat, always great to have you and your perspective on. okay, everybody, sit tight. republicans with a million-dollar ad blitz touting president trump's response to the pandemic, as democrats are launching their own ads attacking him on the same issue. how the covid-19 is shaping the 2020 campaign, next. ♪ a lot has changed in the last few weeks.

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>> melissa: the coronavirus now front and center in the 2020 campaign, the republican national committee launching a million dollar plus ad campaign praising president trump's

response to the pandemic. in the meantime, 2020 democrat joe biden in "the new york times" releasing what he calls a plan to safely reopen america. that includes cutting new cases significantly, increasing testing availability, and ensuring hospitals are ready for a second round of flareups. guy, obviously this is going to have a huge impact on the 2020 election. i think one of the biggest impacts could be on the funding. before this, everybody was saying both sides would have more money than they would know what to do with. i would put out there that i think a lot of wealth has evaporated. unless these candidates -- the contributions that are banked are banked trade in terms of making good on promises that others have made, if you don't have money in your hand for the campaigns, i have a feeling you're not going to get it. what are your thoughts? >> guy: yeah, the fund-raising question is, i think, in the back of many people's minds. it sort of on the back burner right now. i imagine a lot of donors would be that thrilled to get a phone

call begging for political money right now, given what's going on the country. as to the broader question of these attacks in the ad campaigns, look, to some extent i think it is just spinning wheels politically on both sides. i understand if you are a political operation or a campaign or the rnc or the dnc. you are going to want to get out there and respond to attacks and go on the offensive, so on and so forth. i just think the biggest question is a known unknown. which is, what will the country look like? how will he be feeling economically? and of course healthwise. bye, let's say come august or september. if it looks like we got through this okay, and are able to hold down depths compared to some of the projections, able to reopen the economy and a smart way and that recovery is underway, that will speak for itself. i think that will help president trump immensely. if things aren't looking good in august or september, all bets are off and the challenger could very much be favored.

out of frustration among the electorate. but we have absolutely no idea what that picture is going to look like months from now. i think the day-to-day skirmishes are interesting. we follow it because we are political nerds but are not sure what they really matter right now. >> melissa: marie, do you agree with that? >> marie: i think they matter increasingly, the further into this crisis we get. you have president trump who, a few months ago, said that it's not going to come here, we only have one person, it's contained. and now the goalpost has moved so far in terms of what is acceptable or what he will claim as a success at the end of this. there is a double-edged sword here. because president trump is doing these daily press briefings he goes on for hours, he says a lot of things that are going to end up in democratic attack ads. things like, "i take no responsibility." a lot of things are also watching him and seeing him behind presidential, that has the power of its own, as well.

two things or voters. there is nothing more important than the health and safety and security of the american people. you've seen poll move away from president trump's response, from president trump. they are increasingly negative. stories coming out, like "the new york times" showing at many junctures where he did not take decisive action. you will see that in democratic attack ads, as well. the other important logistical thing, melissa, as how we're going to vote in november. we have things like what happened in wisconsin, where there is a protracted legal fight. only five polling places, hundreds of people coming into them. we need to start thinking right now logistically. not about who wins and loses, but how americans get to the polls and get to vote through the mail in november, because that is so critical to our democracy. >> melissa: you are absolutely right. we will end on that point. that's very, very true. current social distancing guidelines say you should stay s

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>> harris: a new cdc report has found the coronavirus can actually travel through the air for at least 13 feet.

that's more than twice as far as current social distancing guidelines. however, cdc director robert redfield remains confident the guidelines in place are still appropriate. watch. >> i think the bulk of evidence that we have right now is still consistent with our guidance. that the 6 feet distancing. obviously, there are circumstances. somebody does a great sneeze across the room. but i think we are comfortable with the bulk of the scientific evidence right now. maintaining that 6 feet guidance that we put out. >> harris: you know, dr. nesheiwat, i wonder how much of this is confusing for people. if you're wearing a mask, and you are supposed to be protected from that person wearing a mask, if they sneeze or cough, how far away do you have to be? >> dr. nesheiwat: that's exactly the key. i think if you're wearing a cloth mask, if you go outdoors it tremendously helps. with the mask will do is help

against large water droplet particles. the world health organization says 3 feet, the cdc says 6 feet, this report out of beijing says 13 feet. but these are all guidelines. technically were all supposed to be staying at home. if you do leave your house, where that cloth mask. it can help significantly for the large water droplet particles. really, unless someone is having a very strong cough were very strong sneeze and they don't cover up, that's technically possible. but they say those particles that do travel the 13, 14, 15 feet are not as contagious, because they would have to stay in the air for several hours, and after several hours they are not infectious. >> harris: forgive me for stepping in there, the delay is a little fierce. i don't know if you guys in real time can see those pictures, guidance and pray did you see the woman take her mast down to rub her nose and then put the mask back up? [laughs] i see the doctor kind of cringing. that is one thing, as time goes on, i do find looking around

with my kind of side-i that people are getting a little bit more lax. >> guy: that is one of the concerns, no doubt. some of it is ignorance, or people, it's second nature to want to rub your face if it itches or something. and people don't necessarily actively think about it, and they do it anyway. this report about 13 feet and the particles, there was a report a few weeks ago about how the virus survived on a cruise ship for weeks. this is one tough slb of the disease. >> harris: oh, boy. >> guy: it is so important for us to look at therapeutics and ultimately vaccines. >> harris: we are going to scoot to a commercial. more "outnumbered" next. just because someone grows older

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staying engaged - in life. oh, thank you, thank you. you're welcome. are you ready to go? oh, i sure am. we can provide the right care, right at home. dropping to near record lows, my team at newday usa is helping more veterans refinance than ever. the newday va streamline refi is the reason why. it lets you shortcut the loan process and refinance with no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. one call can save you $2000 every year. call my team at newday usa right now. >> melissa: our thanks to guy benson and marie harf, and dr. nesheiwat, for being here on the virtual couch. what i wouldn't give to see all of you in person! i can't even tell you, as we kick off another one of these

bizarre weeks. we will be back here on the virtual couch, at least, tomorrow at noon eastern. in the meantime, "outnumbered overtime" with harris faulkner starts right n now. >> harris: and this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. a sobering milestone in the battle against the coronavirus now. the united states has the most reported deaths in the world, more than 22,000 people have died. we have reached more than half a million confirmed cases in america. for the first time, as well, in our nation's history, all 50 states are now under major disaster declarations. meanwhile, this is happening. president trump having a reaction to dr. anthony fauci. the president retweeted a message with the hashtag #firefauci after he said more lives could have been saved from