♪ >> tucker: good evening, and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." quarantines continue across much of the country, and in some places, citizense are pushing back against them. new jersey governor phil murphy runs the state that has been hit harder than any other, other thanan new york. he is been enforcing a very strict lockdown. in a moment he will join us on the program to tell us what he is doing and why. plus, for weeks on the show we have told you that the coronavirus may have escaped from a lab in wuhan, china. it sounds like science fiction, and it's been denounced as such by so many in the media, but it's not. tonight, sources in the u.s. government say they believe that is what actually happened. we've got brand-new developments

on that one just ahead. but first, a quick look at how things stand across the country from fox news correspondent trace gallagher. trace? >> for the united states as the whole, there seems to be a temporary pause on encouraging news and here's why. we've been told we are on the downside of the curve and yet yesterday, for the first time in four days, the number of new deaths in the u.s. increased. it was also the u.s.'s single deadliest day in the pandemic with 380 people losing their lives. we are very likely to surpass that number today. keep in mind, we were told by experts we would see daily fluctuations in the number of infections and deaths prior to a steady decline. in the meantime in new york, the number of people being admitted to hospitals is down for the second straight day and theor number of people being placed on ventilators is also decreasing. here is governor cuomo. >> just on a real-life level, when a person is intubated, they are on a ventilator, 80% of the

people will never come off the ventilator, there about. >> senator eric garcetti raised a few eyebrows when he told several high levels at a meeting that large gatherings like sporting events might not be approved for one year, and that opening the los angeles economy might take six to ten months. b and breaking tonight, several sources now telling fox news,, the belief is that covid-19 originated in a wuhan laboratory. not as a weapon, but as an experiment. and because of risky practices, the virus got out, infected a lab worker, who then infectedes his girlfriend. china tried to cover it up by condemning or jailing doctors who blew the whistle, and despite knowing for weeks about human-to-human transmission, china and the world health organization failed to inform the world. tucker? >> tucker: remarkable story.y. trace gallagher, we will have more on that in a little bit. after the state of new york, no state in the country has been

hit harder by this virus than the state of new jersey. as of today, new jersey has more than 71,000 cases of it. more than 31 people have died so far. since the 21st of march, all residents of the state have been under stay-at-home order and that has had a big, predictable economic effect. m in the past month, 577,000 new jerseyans have filed for unemployment.. phil murphy is the governor and he says the shutdown will continue. governor, we appreciate youil coming on tonight. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: i know you have a lot to deal with. i want to say at the outset, i mean this sincerely, i always presume good faith.uc i know it's complex, especially for you. the most dense state in the country, second highest death toll. but there's a couple things i find confusing and i would love to hear them explained. the first is the rationale for the lockdown. you said early on the point was, most governors said this, was to flatten the curve, to l spread out the infection so it wouldn't collapse. it t didn't collapse.

it came close, but it didn't. today in your press conference, you gave a different rationale for the lockdown. you said that you can't foresee normal gatherings continuing, i think it's a quote, until essentially there are no more cases. why the change? >> again, it's good to be on with you. we believe completely that we don't get an economic recovery unless we get a complete or near complete health care recovery.ov so flattening that curve reduces the amount of hospitalizations, reduces the amount of intensive care beds, ventilators, health care workers needed, et cetera. so you want the line to cross between that and your capacity. if we had let this go, we think 3 plus million new jerseyans would've been infected. and the number, thank god, is going to be a lot less than that, tucker, but we are still not out of the woods yet. my comments today were directed at things like high school graduations, religious gatherings that folks had asked

me about for june. i just -- i can't say with confidence. i think april, the next couple of weeks is going to be our toughest period.d. may, i hope, please god, assuming folk stay home, will be a little bit better. i can't predict with certainty into the summer. so, my rationale is the same,e i've just got to be sure i'm being straight with people about the timing and frankly, what we don't know yet. >> tucker: but the standard that we're not going to have these large gatherings, including, as you said, religious services and nfl games, which you have in your state, till we have zero infections. that is not a standard we apply to any other infectious diseases, including diseases that kill as many as this is projected to kill. so why the different standard in this case? >> yeah, i wouldn't say it's a different standard, and maybe it's the way i said it today,n but here's the reality. you get that economic recovery,n that responsible reopening after you have cracked the back of this. i don't think any of us cann expect that we can get this toyo

zero, particularly in the absence of a vaccine, and it sounds like that's a year, year and a half away.we but i do think, and ii said this today and we believe this strongly, that we need a much broader testing regime.wa and that will give us confidence, if we can quickly test folks. rutgers university, our state university, by the way, started this week with a saliva test, which they think can be scaled up dramatically. that would give us an enormous amount of confidence, to be ablt to say, you know what, we can get back on our feet again and we can highlight where there might be a burgeoning hot spot, have contact tracing in place, and keep a lid on this. >> tucker: right. >> at the same time, let us get back on our feet. >> tucker: that will be hugely important, i think, for every state. once you get large, randomized tests in the state of t new jersey, what do you expect the death rate will turn out to be from this disease? >> i don't know, tucker. based on everything we've seen, it is meaningfully higher than

the year-in and year-out influenza. of course, influenza, there are vaccines for that. i get a shot for that every yeae and please god, we will havefo a shot for this soon as well. i don't have a specific answer other than it appears to be higher. part of the reason is we know the folks who have passed, and there have been far too many in our state, over 3,000 blessed souls, as you say. the denominator is the tough thing to get our arms around right now and that is in the absence of the universal testing that we desperately need. >> tucker: that's right. so you just compared it to the annual influenza. so, there is a vaccine typically forus that. the model -- the new university of washington model that i think most of our leaders have beenew referring to suggests about 60,000 deaths by august 4th. that would be fewer than what the annual influenza caused a couple years ago with a vaccine. so, did that shake your faith at

all in the utility of a vaccine for this disease? maybe it's not the answer? >> yeah, it doesn't shake my faith in either the vaccine, which all experts think is at least a year, year and a half away. it does tell me that if the itdeath tolls are around the numbers that you just referred to, tucker, that all of the actions we're taking are making a difference. i really believe that with all my heart. the fact that we are staying ate home, staying away from each other is flattening the curve, is leading, eventually -- we've got too many lost souls. believe me, every one of them is a precious life. but the fact it may be lower than what we expected means that it's working. >> tucker: let me ask you about the specific measures you just referred to. now, large gatherings are banned. but, liquor stores are deemed an essential service. why -- on the basis of what scientific evidence did you decide that?

>> a couple of things. one is there are liquor stores in our state that actually have a little bit too many backroom gatherings. we had a little bit of a challenge. we had to remind folks that liquor stores may be open, but to your point, gatherings are not allowed. we relied on a whole lot of input, reasonable input from recovery coaches, addiction coaches, and they cautioned us, if we were to shudder those stores down, we would have unintended mental health and addiction prices to pay, unintended consequences. and so far, that is the route we've taken and my guess is we will continue to take that route. >> tucker: so -- but you have s closed church services and synagogue services and arrested people for attempting to attend them. did anyone say that maybe practicing your faith might be important to someone's mental health?di >> listen, i think we've had a very good -- good, common ground with faith leaders of literally

every faith who understand thisc and by the way, whether it's a liquor store, a pharmacy, a supermarket, we expect folks to distance themselves from each other, wear face coverings, et cetera.ks >> tucker: right. >> there is enormous amount of faith going on virtually right now, a lot of practice going on, and we care deeply about the physical health and the mental health. >> tucker: of course, and i don't want to be too persistent on this but i think it's important, on what scientific basis did you decide that sitting in a church was much more dangerous than buying liquor in a liquor store? and why -- >> yeah, i don't -- >> tucker: why is buying liquor more important -- you are not the only governor who has done this and i don't want to pick on you, but i don't understand the reasoning. i don't want to think it has anything to do with tax revenues. >> it does not have anything to do with tax revenues. our tax numbers are so blown up, it would be a rounding error, trust me.

this is not and/or. it can be both. i've spoken to leaders of the jewish community, the muslim community, people are at peace where we have come out there. no one is happy. everyone wants to get back to what they think of as the norm, and who could blame them? but i don't think this is one versus the other. i think you can have both of these realities at the same time, and that is what we have in new jersey right now. >> tucker: so, why -- back a couple of weeks ago, you closed state parks and people have been arrested -- a man was arrested for sitting alone on the beach. tell me why that poses a dangerc again, on what scientific basis did you make that decision? >> yeah, tucker, we were coming into both warm weather and big religious seasons. it was passover first, then easter, ramadan coming up shortly.

and certain of the counties were beginning to close their parks and the concern was the folks who couldn't go to their normal park would go to another park, another county or state park. and it wasn't just a gut feel. we then surveilled the state, ui and down the state, and that first weekend of april when we had some good weather in new jersey, and in fact that was just what we saw. we had lots of people congregating, lots of out-of-state license plates. so, it was a step -- trust me, i took no joy in taking that step. but it's one that we felt we had to take, and as i mentioned, a bunch of legislators -- >> tucker: but -- but, on what basis? on what scientific -- i'm just trying to get to the science here because i assume all of us are following the lead of epidemiologists. arresting someone for sitting alone on the beach. tell me how that arrests the spread of the coronavirus from an epidemiological point of view? >> yeah, i wasn't referring to that.

i don't have the specifics as to why that happened. c i meant congregation at state and county parks, of which there was an enormous amount when the weather got warm. and the fact that folks weren't -- it's not that they couldn't be in the park and jogging by themselves or walking on their own and keeping distance. they weren't, and there were a lot of out-of-state license plates in the parking lot.t. we have some of the nicest parks in the northeast, if not the country. again, it brings me no joy, but we felt that was the right decision to make. >> tucker: so, you made that decision, and as i noted beforee 15 congregants at a synagogue in new jersey were arrested and charged for being in a synagogue together. a now, the bill of rights, as you well know, protects americans', enshrines their right to practice their religion as they see fit, and congregate together to assemble peacefully. by what authority did you nullify the bill of rights in issuing this order? how do you have the power to do that?

>> that's above my pay grade, tucker. i wasn't thinking of the bill of rights when we did this. we went to all -- first of all, we went to -- >> tucker: i can tell. >> [laughs] people have to stay away from each other. that is the best thing we can do to flatten the curve that leads to lower hospitalizations and ultimately save lives. >> tucker: i do think there is a debate. this is a rolling conversation because we are learning new things every day, nothing isba understood. but since you are an elected official, aa leader in the government, an executive, how do you have the authority to order something that so clearly contravenes the bill of rights of the united states? the u.s. constitution? where do you get the authority to do that? >> well, here is the thing.he we know we need to stay away from each other, number one. number two, we do have broad authority within the state. number three, we would never do

that without coordinating,ta discussing, and hashing it out with the leaders, a variety of the leaders of the faith of new jersey. we are among, if not the most -- >> tucker: no, i'm sure you, talked to every rabbi and priest, but there is a deeper question here. i'm just going to ask you one last time because i think it's important. i'm sure you've thought about this. you can't just, as the governor of a state, tell people who they can talk to when and where, because the constitution of the united states, upon which all of this is based, prohibits you from doing that. so, you clearly decided that you could do it. did you consult an attorney about this? because this is a legal question as well as a medical one, isn't it? >> i don't go to the men's room without consulting an attorney, so i guarantee you we did that. i will give you an example not related to the synagogue. i called up cardinal joe tobin in new jersey, coming up for easter, holy week in particular, and i said, listen, i'm really

concerned about drive-through holy communions, because we had heard some stories about priests who unwittingly had the virus and unwittingly passed it on to parishioners. and he said, we are not doing that, i promise you, and i will confirm that with my fellow bishops. that is not denying someone their right to worship in any way. we have to find a different way to worship. i think that's the point. god bless america, willingly -- >> tucker: we're not allowed to tell people how to worship. just as a sort of factual -- last question, your orders, these orders, which, again, i'm presuming and i believe were taken in good faith under the trying circumstances, have nevertheless, and you just said it, have resulted in an awful lot of suffering. 577,000 new jerseyans on unemployment, doubtless the suicide rate will increase, addiction will increase, liquor stores are open, which you noted. how much does it weigh on you? that the suffering that thisis lockdown has caused might equal or perhaps outweigh what the

virus does? do you think about that? >> it weighs heavily, and you ask yourself every day, are you making the right decision? the answer is this, two-fold, w tucker. one is we continue to make every call based on the facts, the data, the science, as best we can. and secondly, i look at what we are doing versus the alternative. and i know that the alternative, if we step back and let this virus run amok, 3 plus million people in our state would've been infected, and the health care system would've had no chance to have kept up with that, and the fatalities would've been multiple.e. so, each life lost is a precious life lost, let there be no doubt about it. but the alternative would've been multiples of this. economic suffering -- if it would've been millions, it would've been a lot worse down thebe road. we chose to rip the band-aid off and deal with this upfront, and god willing, we made the right set of decisions. >> tucker: best of luck.

governor, thanks for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you for having me, tucker.ke >> tucker: as you just heard, the chief executive of the state hit hardest of any other other than new york explain why he's done what he's done. u.s. senator will respond and give us his take on that next. ♪

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i will protect you no matter what, pinky promise. just say xfinity movie premiere into your voice remote to bring the theater to you. >> tucker: 15 congregants at a synagogue in new jersey were arrested and charged for being in a synagogue together. now, the bill of rights, as you well know, protects americans' right, enshrines their right to practice their religion as you

see fit and a congregate together to assemble peacefully. by what authority did you nullify the bill of rights in issuing this order? how do you have the power to do that? >> yeah, we weren't -- and that's above my pay grade, tucker. i wasn't thinking of the bill of rights when we did this. >> tucker: that was governor phil murphy of new jersey on this program justt a moment ago. senator john kennedy is a republican, represents the state of louisiana, another state hit hard by this epidemic. senator, thanks so much for coming on tonight. i just want to say what i said to the governor of new jersey, which is i think these are really hard decisions. nobody is really sure what this disease does because we don't have adequate testing, so i give everyone the benefit of the doubt.t. i still, though, am concerned that a governor of the state would say, i didn't consider the bill of rights when i issued this order. are you concerned about that? >> well, i think everybody's

concerned, and we should be concerned about that. and tucker, i have enormous respect for the governor, and i'm not trying to be a smart aleck. but i listened to the whole interview -- >> tucker: well, i'm not either. >> yeah, he's -- i know you're not. but i don't understand the governor's points. i mean, here's the way i see it. the american people are not morons. they understand what i'm about to say, and at some point, we're going to have to trust them. but number one, very, very sooni the can is going to run out of road. we've got to open this economy. if we don't, it's going to collapse. and if the u.s. economy collapses, the world economy collapses. and trying to burn down the village to save it is foolish. that is a cold, hard truth. number two, yes, we shut down,

but the shutdown did not stop the spread of the virus. i wish it had. but it's too late for that. the shut the shut down the slowed the spread of the virus at enormous cost, but it still spread. number three, when we end the shutdown, the virus is going to spread faster. that's just a fact. and the american people understand that. so when we open up, and were going to have to -- and somebody's got to make the call -- we've got to be smart about how we do it. don't open up in the middle of a hot spot. encourage your elderly and those with pre-existing conditions to stay quarantined and provide them financial support. wear masks, try to socially distant -- distance. use technology without violating privacy to try to track the hot spots and track people who

have been exposed. test as much as we can. make sure that we've got health care capacity. our governors and our president have been building up our health care capacity. but, you know, this is like choosing between cancer and a heart attack. >> tucker: yeah. >> it's a miserable choice.an but this much i do know, and i understand, before we started today, i did some reading on ths governor. i'm not being critical, but he'd talking about leaving the economy closed until july. do you really believe the american people are going to stand for that? they're not. they're not. they're going to go back to work. and i sat on the bankingng committee, i have conference calls twice a week with our senioral federal officials. this economy is going to collapse.

the federal reserve cannot buy the economy. and the final point i make, i don't want to hear anymore from the sophomoric accusations -- and i'm not seeing the governor made it -- but the sophomoric accusations that if -- your morally tainted if you don't want to see the american economy crash. i value life. we all value life in america.. so this isn't a question of not valuing life. this is a question of making a hard decision with the cold, hard facts. and anybody who thinks that we can just leave this economy shut down indefinitely until we have no more cases -- well, they probably still believe in bigfoot because that is just not shippedva and anybody who thinks that we can just leave this economy shut down indefinitely until we have no more cases -- well, they probably still believe in bigfoot because that is just not realistic and every politician, myself included sometimes, it is

just dancing around the issue. the american people get it. we've got to reopen, and when we do, the coronavirus is going to spread faster, and we've got to be ready. >> tucker: yep. you know what kills more people every year than coronavirus? a lot more. poverty. poverty kills people in massivee numbers, we should remember that. senator, thank you for those wise words. that was really interesting and thoughtful. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: well, for weeks, we have told you that there is a lot of evidence that the coronavirus did not, in fact, begin in a wet market. instead it may have escaped from a chinese laboratory in wuhan. we were denounced as crazy for saying that. tonight, u.s. government sources, highly informed sources say they believe that's actually what happened. breaking developments and that story next. ♪ what happened.

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to new users. our hope is that our content can help fill these stressful hours, and provide a little comfort to you and your family, and ultimately nurture your spirit. thank you and god bless you. ♪ ♪ >> live from america's news headquarters. president trump says the u.s. has passed the peak of the covid-19 pandemic. he calls the numbers encouraging. he is expected to reveal guidelines on thursday with how states can reopen their economies. governors will have the final safe. nearly 640,000 americans have tested positive for covid-19 and

more than 30,000 have died. they will be honored thursday. amtrak trains and regional trends will blast their horns twice at 3:00 p.m. it is meant to salute all workers providing essential services during the coronavirus pandemic. new york transportation workers have been hit very hard with nearly 60 deaths. i'm ashley strohm i'll come back to "tucker carlson tonight." ♪ >> tucker: the wuhan institute of virology also conducted research on intermediate horseshoe bats, oneses that were not sold at the wet market. university scientists concluded that the coronavirus, the one people are dying of here, likely came from one of these two government labs in wuhan. they notice that the scientists at the centers for disease control and prevention were exposed to the blood and urineab of bats. they suggested tissue samples from research animals may want

to put the wuhan wet market. that was 16 days ago. we have taken an awful lot of abuse for airing that segment. from the a very beginning there were theories that the wuhan coronavirus originated in a laboratory. we cover those repeatedly on the show including what you just saw, but from the beginning most of the press treated that as it conspiracy theory. china denies it! it must be true!e turns out, though, there is real evidence, and it's accumulating really quickly that this pandemic came from a lab in wuhan. fox's special report spoke with multiple sources in the u.s. government, highly informed sources, who were briefed on china's actions. those sources say that from the beginning, chinese authorities knew that this virus escaped from a laboratory. those authorities silenced physicians and journalists in china and ordered viral samples to be destroyed. the wet market theory was made up as a distraction to muddy the

waters and deny the claim. as we reported on the show, 59 different people who use the wuhan wet market said horseshoe bats were not for sale there. they were hundreds of miles away. colonies of those bats. it was a lie, apparently, and it was a lie that cost this world trillions of dollars and many thousands of lives. gordon chang is author of "the coming collapse of china."s he joins us tonight. gordon, thanks so much for coming on. as we just noted, high level u.s. government sources confirmed that they believe this virus escaped from either the wuhan institute of virology or the other lab in wuhan. do you think that is possible? >> it's not only plausible, it's probable. there was an article in the authoritative british medical journal which said that a third of the initial cases hadn no connection with the wuhan wet

market that everyone talked about. that means that there had to be another source for this and when you look at wuhan, obviously, that wuhan institute of virology is at the top of the list of subjects. and by the way, tucker, china reopened wet markets about a week ago and that is a real indication that beijing thought -- or beijing knew that the wet markets were not the source of the coronavirus epidemic. >> tucker: so, let me ask you, since this was always plausible, in my view, likely explanation for what happened, and again, just want to restate, apparently it was accidental, not intentional. we don't know, but that seems likely. given that it was always a real possibility, why did our medical establishment in this country deny that this could ever happen. the head of nih sent a special memo saying, we looked into it, there's no chance, it's disgusting anyone would claim this about the government of china. why would our officials, including the head of the nih,

covering for china? >> i think there are a couple factors at work. one of them is released from the lab is just unthinkable and that will call into question all of these bio labs around the world. remember, this is a key facility. it had the highest level of security. if you had an accident there, just imagine what people would be saying about labs around the world. but also, i think there was also a sense that they were working with china, they didn't want to get china upset. we've seen many americanan officials used this general approach, and it hasn't worked in the past, and obviously it hasn't worked now, tucker. >> tucker: it's just shocking. i mean, do you think our own health authority -- first of all, do you think it would be worthwhile for everyone who dismissed this out of hand as crazy and attacked the people who raised the possibility,, maybe it would be time for them

to apologize for their behavior, account for it and start some real reporting on this question because it is a significant question, it actually matters. >> it is very consequential, ane what i think this really says is all of our policymakers, all of our analysts and academics really need to go back and question their assumptions about what happened, and in general, the way they do china, because clearly, we have been getting it wrong for a long time and now this has had consequences which are just disasters. we are going to bury many americans because of this. >> tucker: that's exactly right. they should be questioning their assumptions. that is something we should all do every single day after our morning cup of coffee and calisthenics, question your assumptions, because reality changes fast. gordon chang, thank you for that. appreciate it.e >> thank, tucker.. >> tucker: do you get the feeling that our media are, covering for china? maybe they care about that country more than our own?

it's no coincidence you may feel that way. years ago, michael bloomberg admitted that his operation censored itself to placate the chinese communist party. now we have details on just how far bloomberg was willing to go. in 2013, "bloomberg news" reporters were working on a piece about massive wealth accumulated by leading party officials. the story never ran and thepi reporters who wrote it were silenced. now national public radio has evobtained internal bloomberg audio recordings from 2013. in this recording, then editor-in-chief kills the story, he admits, purely to keep china happy. listen to this. >> it is for sure going to,hi yu know, invite the communist party to -- completely shut it down, kick us out of theit country. so i just don't see that as a story that is justified. >> tucker: yeah. business imperatives came before

telling the truth. not surprising. meanwhile, cnn just this monday posted what is literally chinese propaganda as a news story and we say "literally." we a mean that literally. the headline was "chinese navy is controlling coronavirus and aircrafts prove it, report says." what was that report? it was a press release from one of china's many propaganda publications. what is going on here? dana perino may know the answer. she hosts "the daily briefing with dana perino." great to see you. >> you too. >> tucker: i'm not sure i do, either, other than the obvious one, and i'm at fault here too, why didn't we notice this earlier? n we knew that these organizations were in bed with a country that hates us, but nobody said anything about it until recently. why? >> i think that is painting it with too broad a brush.

first of all, it was npr that is reporting on the bloomberg story -- >> tucker: yes, and good for them. >> one thing -- yeah. and so, okay, those are americans.em we have a system that looks different and is so much better than china and so many ways. our founding fathers were brilliant. their first amendment was first for a reason. freedom of speech, assembly, and freedom of the press. i think what is interesting, too, is bloomberg as a news organization -- remember, even in our own country, they were ridiculed because they were told that the reporters could not cover the presidential campaign of mike bloomberg. which felt very un-american and unprincipled. and many news organizations have had these fights with china. in fact our sister company, because an company, whatever we want to call it, "the wall street journal" recently had people kicked out a of that country because the chinese communist party was very upset about a headline of anan opinion piece because they can't take any sort of dissent. they worry every night, what keeps president xi up at nightec

is any sort of dissent. any sort of people actually expressing their individual thought and desires. and if that goes into contrary to what they want they have the economic -- to show it. remember the houston rockets had to walk back the support of hong kong protesters. it was like, a mild support of hong kong protesters being allowed to express themselves. so there's a lot of compromising that has been going on with american companies and news organizations, et cetera, in order to do business in china and to report in china. >> tucker: it's just interesting because we spent three years watching americans denounce the tools of the kremlin, and we were told russia is bad, and i've said this one hundred times, because they crack down on the press. but here you have a country, china, which is so much more progressive and sophisticated in its squelching of the press, and

i never hear anybody say that. why the difference, i wonder? >> that -- well, partly i think it's because putin wants to be considered someone who is meddling. he wants to be considered someone who is more powerful than he actually is. he uses the propaganda for himself. china are much more patient people and they try to controlol everything more tightly. what i would love to see is more americans, not just american journalists, but americans overall support in the human rights of the chinese people, and especially their journalists. they have done some pretty important work, and under some pretty terrible circumstances. many of them have to go to jail. >> tucker: oh, yeah. >> some of them are never seen from again.ty i really think a concentration should be made for them. some of these young, enterprising journalists, in order to get around the censors to report on the coronavirus, they were using emojis inor morse code so they could actually get information to people to protect them, and we

should support that. >> tucker: amen. such a good point and i'm glad you said that. the religious minorities there. the muslims, the christians, the many christians who are persecuted. amen. >> the uighurs. >> tucker: uighurs, exactly. thank you. many thousands of michiganders protested today against the governor gretchen whitmer's restrictions on daily life. many restrictions. one of them who engaged in the protest joins us next. ♪ l right now, it feels like the world standing still. but if you look to the land, it's a whole different story. from farms to backyards, wheels are turning. seeds are being planted. animals are getting fed. and grass is growing. and families are giving their all to the soil because no matter how uncertain things get, the land never stops. so to all those linked to the land, we say thank you. we're here for you because we all run together.

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♪ >> tucker: michigan governor gretchen whitmer, not impressive, has imposed what might be the most authoritarian restrictions on daily life in the history of this country. under whitmer's decree, stores

are banned from selling what she believes are "nonessential" items, gatherings of more than two people are illegal, and residents aren't allowed to travel to their own homes. today, thousands of michigandere drove to the capital to protest this. meshawn maddock is with the michigan conservative coalition and participated in today's protest. she joins us tonight. thank you so much for joining us tonight. tell us specifically what you were protesting today. >> this is really born out of weeks of oppression in michigan. we feel right now that businesses are bankrupt by bureaucrats, that is what we are suffering under in michigan. but she really doubled down a few days w ago. i think it was on april 10th. when she came out, we were really looking for a message off hope. we were looking for message of encouragement because our numbers are nowhere near the dire numbers that she had predicted just a few weeks ago.

and instead of patting everybody on the backs and loosening are very strict rules, she doubled down. she made things even worse, and honestly, this event had to happen because these people were frustrated and fired up and we were hearing about it nonstop. enwe knew we needed to contain this and give a voice. >> tucker: let me ask you, you are living under the whitmer regime under these actions. she has said in public many u times, i'm letting the science to guide my decision. she says it is illegal in the state of michigan to sell or buy paint. has she explained the science of that decision to you? do you understand the science there? >> i have my own reasons why i think she is behaving the way she is but there is no science behind it. b explain how you can go on a kayak or canoe, which is the perfect leftist hobby, by the way, but hunters can't hunt,

fishers can't fish, and if you own a motorboat in michigan and you live on the lake, you can't even take your boat on your own lake by yourself. her rules are oppressive, that is what we feel like. and then after the protest today, which was peaceful, we had thousands and thousands of people, they showed up today in lansing, and instead of listening, she blames them. she did it again, she blames the people who showed up. there were over 10,000 cars according to the michigan state police and she is ignoring those people. >> tucker: i really, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart hope she is reported from this as she is trying to become joe biden's vp pick. i hope she loses her job because she certainly deserves it. this is mindless and authoritarian. meshawn, thank you. thank you for coming on tonight and thank you for exercising your constitutionally protected rights as an american, bless you. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: hospitals in new york appear to be on the

brink of collapse. two weeks ago, we brought that to you live. we were concerned about it, everybody was. now those hospitals are escorting ventilators to other states.. so what happened? dr. siegel joins us next. .. .. and spray... and spray. well, we used to. with new ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier, one simple application kills and prevents bugs in your home for up to a year without odors, stains or fuss. it's the modern way to keep bugs away. new ortho, home defense max. get everything you need for spring at ortho.com order today!

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♪music) ♪ >> tucker: in late march of this year, hospitals inal new york city's appeared to be the brink of total collapse.

the governor of new york begged for tens of thousands of ventilators and instead people would choke to death in the hallways if you didn't get it immediately. the tide in york seems to have peaked so how are things looking now. dr. siegel, thanks a lot. tell me you something we spend a lot of time discussing on the show. >> tucker, we have a lot of ventilators at nyu gum health and we have another protective equipment, personal protective equipment. i spoke with dr. mark th he said we also have enough of what he calls the unsung heroes. the cleaners, the transporters, the chefs, the technicians all on the front lines all needing protective equipment, all risking their health for this very contagious virus. then he spoke to me about the most important people who are really isolated, the patients.

take a listen. >> i just finished two weeks of being the medical director of one of the covid-19 floors. ???to are really sick and isolated. so tragic because we don't have the medicine yet. i do believe it's going to come soon. >> tucker, we have the equipment, we have the ventilators. patient high risk unfortunately are emotionally isolated but you can catch this virus so easily. health carere workers such great risk, bonding together, showing courage, commuting together, 12-hour shifts at nyu right now and they are getting control of this. they are the heroes, tucker >> sean: speed to me just say this, he helped >> tucker: an amazing, amazing position. quickly confirm or not the report that we saw today that ventilators are being shipped out of new york tonight? >> they are not being shipped

out of new york tonight but they will be because we are starting to reach a plateau. the idea that the president has now, that we can actually take ventilators and transfer them to a new hot spot is correct. we have not used the 6500 ventilators that have come here. it's good that we have them just ind case. there is a lot of attention being paid to ventilators, but we have i in a ventilators and we need them in areas where there are a greater risk, the most need. what are we going to do? when can they go home? wherean can we send them? that's the key. the ventilators, we have enough of. they are going to be transported, yes, to other places, tucker. >> tucker: what are the long-term effects of it. we are out of time but i hope you join us later to discuss that because a lot are wondering are the residual effects? dr. siegel, great to see you as always. >> thanks, tucker.

>> tucker: that's it for us tonight to completely out of time. we'll be back tomorrow. have a happy night with the ones you love. sean hannity is standing by in new york city tow take over abt nine seconds early, but we are happy. >> sean: i'll take it because you are late the last two nights. i'm not talking about hosts anymore. national emergency, pandemic. great show as always, tucker. and welcome to "hannity" and we begin tonight with a fox news alert fox news alert. bombshell reporting from our own bret baier, the coronavirusur pandemic now we know likely originated from the wuhan institute of virology which is a biological testing lab in wuhan, china. the virus was transmitted from a bat to a lab worker, ground zero. that lab worker, according to bret's sources tonight, patient zero was that worker in the wuhan lab who excellently became