>> ed: pardon me, but i went to the bank every day and forgot i had my mask on and i was like, "this is kind of weird, i'm walking into a bank with a mask." but anyway... >> sandra: did you have your pants on? [laughs] >> ed: i did. you have to have watched the early part of the show to understand that. >> sandra: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert for you now, president trump set to announce his plans to reopen the economy later today, after he speaks with governors. this, amid more gut punching economic news. 5.2 million americans filing for unemployment. bring the number left jobless by the coronavirus pandemic to a jaw-dropping 22 million. the staggering numbers from the labor department showing some 13% of the american workforce is sidelined, a month after the virus hollowed out the economy. in the meantime, the present warning of death and serious

health problems if the shutdown keeps dragging on. >> there's also death involved in keeping it closed. i've gone over it with you, i believe this so strongly. when you look at mental health, when you look at suicides, suicide outlines, which are exploding. people losing their jobs. when you look at drugs and people that didn't take drugs and now they are becoming drug-addicted because they're going through a problem, they have no job, they have no money coming in. >> melissa: this is "outnumbered," and i'm melissa francis. here today, my partner, who i miss very much at this point, harris faulkner. also joining us on the virtual couch, we have kennedy from the fox business network. attorney and host of "crimes that changed america" on fox nation, emily compagno. joining us and what would be the center seat is dr. marty makary. he's a physician and professor at johns hopkins university and he is a fox medical contributor.

dr. makary, let me start with you. when the president talks about the health impact of these staggering economic numbers, he is talking about depression, drug addiction, alcoholism. how big of a threat do you think that is? >> dr. makary: well, there's no doubt, one of the greatest indicators of health is a strong socioeconomic status. we see that all over. you know, i think we are seeing a lot of encouraging numbers are now. specifically, i see you admissions and intubation's are down. we have to remember, last week was the deadliest week in modern american history. on behalf of health care workers, think you for taking precautions. because you helped us. some parts of the country are still getting hammered in the icus and emergency rooms. we have to keep all of that in mind, as we think about the path to getting back to work right now. >> melissa: absolutely. emily, one of the biggest concerns as we begin to reopen, a lot of workplaces are

concerned about the health of their workers and they are also concerned about the liability. i would lean on you or legal expertise here, as we weigh going back to work. you don't want to put your workers' health at risk, certainly, but when you look at way to mitigate that, if you test your workers and you bought the test, and it isn't 100%, you face also it's of liabilities. what are workplaces dealing with right now as they start to look toward a path forward, as the president looks toward it governors? >> emily: you are absolutely right, melissa. businesses have sent letters to the federal government and the cdc essentially crying about that. asking for protection and guidance. it also goes for those who are union members, the value of employees. if one has antibodies, are they valued higher than another? there are lots of questions they are facing do not only ensure the health and safety of their workers, but also as a secondary consideration the legal

protection of these businesses and the protection of their future revenue. i want to point out, if i may, that the opening of the economy, the stimulus bill really went hand-in-hand with that. i think that's partly why we saw a lot of failures on it for small businesses. take the hospitality industry, for example. that is over 2.5% of our gdp, in a $900 billion industry. the specifics of that, the fact that, for example, 75% of the forgivable costs have to go to the payroll, that saves businesses inheriting unemployment wages from the federal government. because their doors aren't open. so they are blasting through the limit from the federal government before they get to that point where their doors can actually open. it's been raising a lot of questions, and frankly angst among those small businesses that really will only be curtailed by the opening of the economy as slow as it will be. >> melissa: kennedy, when we look at those numbers and think

about 22 million people who no longer have a job, the anxiety and the depression that is associated with that. that doesn't even count the businesses that are gone, the families that have put their entire lives into their small business. they can now see it wiped away. i mean, i know that you stack that up against people's health, vis-a-vis the coronavirus, but this is also a very, very serious health problem. what are your thoughts? >> kennedy: well, most americans live paycheck to paycheck, and they can't afford a dental catastrophe or car maintenance, let alone being out of work for months and months at a time. most americans don't have a safety net. a lot of the people who are in charge of deciding when and how we open the economy, they don't have to worry about paying their phone bill or paying their mortgage. they're all taken care of. we do need to have that

perspective in mind, because we have essential workers, but there are a lot of people with small businesses and their work is also incredibly essential. you know, i know the government has shortcomings in terms of providing testing, but we need some answers in terms of confidence, so people can start to make purchases and arrangements with one another again to keep those small businesses open. you're absolutely right, that is what is most critical right now. if you have the entire tax base that is crippled, states aren't bringing in money and the federal government isn't bringing in money, and certainly won't attack. it's deferred. what is the money come from? from the government, in order to continue to support all these people who are now on unemployment. >> melissa: that's true. he really point out a crushing line of dominoes. harris, it comes back to the test. i know that you dig deep on that

every day on "outnumbered overtime," where we stand on all of those various tests. that seems like the way forward. what do you think? >> harris: we ask the same question every day, and it has been five weeks now of asking, where are we on the tests that can tell us whether or not people have covid-19, can tell us quickly, can tell us with saliva versus other ways of knowing? the longer swabs, the shorter swabs, that sort of thing. that is one way, melissa. then there's the antibody testing too. reporting today that maybe it's not going to be as easily accessible to get that information on people with plasma that they can donate with antibodies, because you're not sure how long the antibodies last, who has that, that sort of thing. who do we target? do a sum to medic people -- how are they going to donate? they don't know they have it on this you test them. do we get them tested for us to verify that?

it is a dog chasing its tail right now. it is such an important part of the economy equation, getting people back to work. if you put the workforce back in the way you had a before and you don't have any more clue about who has it and who doesn't, it's just a cauldron for problems. here's the thing, melissa, that you and i talk about -- i'll be quick -- how people are feeling in the economy. forbes, "usa today," "washington post" hitting this pretty hard. how people are spending those first $1200 stimulus checks. the first thing on the list, melissa, his food. followed by gas and bills. what does that tell you about where people are? you talk about 13% of the workforce sidelined. they are not just not working, they are struggling. they are suffering. >> melissa: it's really true. you talk about cities like new york where they have said you can't evict people, for the time being. maybe you're not paying your rent, but that rent isn't forgiven. it still needs to be paid at

some point, and you have to go out and buy food. dr. makary, let me ask you -- we heard about amazon, for example, saying they will start testing their own employees. that they are going to sort of take the lead on that, and see who is safe to be at work, who has the antibodies. that sort of thing. do you think that's the way forward, that large corporations have to be the ones to sort of purchase their own tests and get started? and maybe that leaves small business, depending on the government -- i mean, how do you see the testing rolling out based on what we've seen so far, which is very little? >> dr. makary: well, you know, big corporations like to move fast and they like to have definite plans. in science we like to study things and observant sort of reevaluate. there is certainly a precedent for large companies doing this. we do this already with flu shots. i have to have a certificate, if you will, or documentation that i've had the flu shot just to show up at my employer, johns hopkins, to do my job. that may be the model. remember, this is not one of

those things where we can beat the virus into a business plan. it has a life of its own, the antibody testing, as harris said, is much messier than we thought. we are probably 2-4 weeks away from a mass scalable antibody test. in the meantime, we are learning a lot. we are learning it's hard for this virus to hurt someone who is young and healthy. maybe those people can march back for us with certain precautions, like distancing and wearing a mask. >> melissa: all right. i'm seeing some news right now that sort of makes me want to cry. new york governor andrew cuomo is extending the stay-at-home order, he just said, here in new york by two more weeks, until may 15th. there you go, new york, we are staying at home for another two weeks. meanwhile, fox news exclusively obtaining new details on how china may have covered up crucial information about the covid-19 outbreak. that's next. >> the chinese government needs to come clean, he needs to be

accountable, it needs to explain what happened. ♪ customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ you can't always stop for a fingerstick.betes with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you don't have to. with a painless, one-second scan you can check your glucose with a smart phone or reader so you can stay in the moment. no matter where you are or what you're doing. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestylelibre.us.

right now we're offering one week free of pureflix to new users. our hope is that our content can help fill these stressful hours, and provide a little comfort to you and your family, and ultimately nurture your spirit. thank you and god bless you. ♪ vby refinancing your va loan atl today's incredibly low rates thank you and god bless you. at newday usa. newday's va streamline refi is the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered. you can lower your payments by this time next month without having to verify your income, without getting your home appraised, and there's no money out of pocket. call newday right now.

>> of the united states government now has high confidence that, while the coronavirus is a naturally occurring virus, it emanated frm a virology lab in wuhan. >> i don't want to say that, john, but i will tell you more and more we are hearing the story. when you say multiple sources, there's a case where you can use the word "sources." >> harris: you see their chie white house correspondent john roberts question president trump. that was yesterday. on a new fox report that the coronavirus outbreak likely emerged from a laboratory in wuhan, china, due to safety per

koto lacks safety protocols of the facility. they believe the virus was initially transmitted from a bat to a lab worker who then entered the general population in wuhan. arkansas senator tom cotton says china may have blood on its hands. >> it's possible that this very contagious virus originated a few hundred yards or miles from a laboratory where the communist chinese party is responsible for every death, job loss, every retirement nest egg lost from this coronavirus. xi jinping and his chinese communist apparat's will need to pay the price if it turns out to be true. >> harris: china pushing back on those claims, saying the world health organization found no evidence the virus originated in that lab. top administration officials say the investigation is ongoing. melissa, i'm going to come to

you. this is something you and i have been talking about since the beginning, watching what was going on on the ground in china. finally we are hearing some of what there was talk about early on, that the proximity of that laboratory to the market and so on and so forth. >> melissa: i talked to virus center and lincoln's been on our network a lot, immediately after he returned from that region. he said very early on not that this was a bio weapon, which that is not true. that is what a lot of people have been conflating this into. this is a natural occurrence that was possibly being studied in that lab. it likely got out into the rest of the population. not an intentional thing and not a weapon. but this still comes back to

china being responsible, and also not sort of owning that mistake we are investigating it or being transparent about it out of the gate, when we could have had so many lives saved by more transparency earlier on. i just don't know, in the long run, even if somebody comes up with the evidence to say that definitively, with that theory, what do you do with that? to say china has to pay, i don't know what that looks like. what does that mean? >> harris: welcome one thing -- and i want to get the doctor's opinion on that. dr. makary, one thing we might have benefited from in terms of knowing about the lab, potentially if there was a mistake, we have a ground zero patient at some point inside that lab, if all of the fax line up on this in the end. that would have been helpful, because knowing that that person went where, tracing that person steps, too, might have taught us a lot about the contagion

factor. i would imagine, and maybe other things. what do you think? >> dr. makary: i agree, harris. i have worked in labs. mistakes happen and labs. one of the greatest concerns here is that there were early whistle-blowers. the wuhan central hospital is 5 miles from the virology institute. presumably, whoever were some of the early patients involved here, it could have been patient zero, presented to a doctor. let's look at the data points. we know that dr. was called in by the police. it's hard to hurt somebody who's young and healthy. one of his colleagues are offended. the third colleague of his who blew the whistle has been missing since april 1st, and her facebook post have been very bizarre. there are a lot of data points here that suggest the story is

very plausible. >> harris: kennedy, you know, as we watch this from around the world, knowing what the early days and how long it took china to finally say, "yes, it's human to human transmission," what are you observing? what are you paying close attention to? >> kennedy: its propaganda, and its deadly propaganda. for anyone who has been sickened by this who has lost family members, this is something that you just can't stomach. that's what happens. this is one of the main problems with system's like communism. it is top-downstate is in. the idea is to always protect the top, and to always maintain the collective. the problem is, when there are real facts and real data that need to get out in order to save lives, you have people that go missing, people who are silenced, and now doctors who are dead. where has the world health organization been, in terms of bringing accountability and

making sure that whatever else and that lab doesn't get out? that is a terrifying thought. >> harris: wow, that is interesting. a whole nother chapter to this. emily? >> emily: i would like to focus on those cables that u.s. officials sent from the u.s. embassy in beijing to the federal government in 2018. this lab in wuhan, it's the wuhan institute of virology, it was the first lab in china -- it happened in 2015 -- to achieve the highest level of bioresearch safety internationally. in 2018, these u.s. officials from our embassy there paid several visits. afterward, they cabled to the u.s., two different cables, sensitive but unclassified, kind of raising the alarm in both management and safety. that first cable specifically addressed the fact that they

have the risk and carried the risk of a human transmission to create another sars-like pandemic. to melissa's point about the continued history of deception and lack of transparency, the lab itself issued news releases about these visits and, since then, have wiped them and however it's archived on the internet. how do you compel china, to kennedy's point, moving forward, to play by the same rules as everyone else? i think that's the issue facing our president and certainly other global leaders. how do we compel them to actually comply with that same standard of, at a minimum, just transparency so that we can prevent deaths moving forward? >> harris: well, and it may be for money. melissa, we've been reporting since yesterday that the president took that $500 million of money off the table from the united states, at least moving forward for a while. we don't know the term of that. it's ten times the amount that china paid. china is upset over that. the world health organization is

upset over that, too. a last quick word, melissa? >> melissa: well, it's interesting in the roughly 48 hours since the president said that, how a lot of people who initially blanched and said, "how can you take money away from health organization at a time or having a health crisis?" they taken a closer look at what's gone on and said, "maybe that is a good way to get their attention." we're talking about a future budget, at the current budget. we need somebody to be in charge of the world's health and to monitor it. if this organization isn't going to do it, i'm not sure who is. so we have to get their attention, because this is just too serious. too many lives have been lost already. >> harris: has kindly pointed out -- and at such a great point, kennedy -- what do we know about what they're doing at that lab or any others inside china, if, as emily pointed out, it already got a great, great internationally? and then, through some kind of protocol this or some kind of accident, we are in the but we are in now. looking forward, you are right,

putting the pressure on them. all right, we're going to scoot. a nationwide budget crisis on the horizon, as the coronavirus lockdown puts a massive financial strain on local and state governments. a live report, next. ♪

for many of our members, being prepared... won't be a new thing. and it won't be their first experience with social distancing. overcoming challenges is what defines the military community. usaa has been standing with them, for nearly a hundred years. and we'll be here to serve for a hundred more. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis... little things, can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable.

don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression... or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. while most of the world is being asked to stay inside, there are people out there giving it their all. so, to everyone who is helping to keep us safe against covid-19 day in and day out, all of us at amgen say, ... thank you. i totally get how important it is to stay connected. customers can do what they need to do, whenever they need to do it online. we care about keeping you safe. (vo) we are open 24/7 online, so you can keep managing all you need from home and through the verizon apps and verizon.com.

♪ >> melissa: a new budget crisis looming for state and

local governments, as coronavirus shutdowns push the biggest source of revenue for most states, sales taxes, off a cliff. william la jeunesse is live in los angeles with the story. >> melissa, it's everything. sales, income, corporate, tourist access, capital gains. essentially you have zero money coming into the cities and states for two months now, which means, of course, pay cuts and layoffs. police, fire, parks, roads, schools. that's what we see coming. let's start with some of the hardest hit cities, columbus and cincinnati, cleveland, they get more than 67% of their presence from income taxes. tulsa, denver, lincoln, nebraska, they get half the revenues from sale taxes. others also deemed vulnerable are birmingham, lexington, kansas city, because of their tax structure. very similar. 600 cities tell the u.s. conference on mayors that they will lay off workers. 1100 say they will cut pay and public services. >> we are going to pick up your trash, your lights, your water,

will be there. we will make sure you are 911 calls are answered, et cetera. but make no mistake, there will be big cuts. ecotourism taxes, gone. florida, arizona, very hard hit. san diego, $100 million in losses. new york city, today projected a $7 billion shortfall, requiring pay cuts and a hiring freeze. >> i think most people will agree that there needs to be some cuts. how deep those will be, how much you offset them, where you draw from other sources, those are all going to be controversial and difficult questions. >> states equally vulnerable, as an employment claims pile up. less money coming in, worse, i'm told, then the 2008 recession. half of california's income taxes come from the 1%. well, without this capital gains, the state, again, face layoffs. yesterday california became the first date, melissa, to give $500,000 to $1,000 to illegal immigrants.

we look at the rainy day funds across the 50 states, melissa, that's gone. the recession, if you will, totally eclipsed those. it comes at a time, of course, people will want services because of the economy. back to you. >> melissa: right, exactly. william la jeunesse, great report. emily, let me start with you. when there is this legal conversation that goes on about who has the right to reopen the economy, the struggle between president trump and governor cuomo, for example, i sort of sit back and laugh to myself. because the governor may think that he has the right to call things opened and closed, but he is going to, very soon, be asking the president for money for the reasons that william la jeunesse just laid out. for our state and local governments, they can't print money. they can't make it appear from nowhere. really, it's only the feds who can fill in that gap. what are your thoughts on that from a legal perspective?

>> emily: interestingly, i think that's been a tension that has hallmarked this presidency from the beginning. essentially states sort of being beholden to the federal government by money. that's not only to the federal government has, but it has continued to ask the states keep making. in terms of the constitutional questions, state governments and the police have a broad latitude when it comes to public health. obviously there are exceptions, and it's the infringement on one's constitutional rights. the test is whether there is a less restrictive measure to achieve that legitimate goal. the other thing is, the reality is, how do you put that in check? how do you argue that? there is the purse string questions, and it also plays out in the courts. we do really have time for that. if i may, i would like to just touch on a few points that william just made. i'm sitting here in washington state, which is 1 of 7 states in the u.s. that doesn't have an income tax. the state gets over 60% of its revenue from sales and consumption tax.

that is what's being annihilated right now. in terms of california, which she touched on, where i'm from, governor newsom allocated taxpayer funds to those 125 million adult illegal immigrants that were accepted from the stimulus bill, that each would get a $500 check. he argues, he says, "well, they paid $2.5 billion in state and local taxes last year." but that's also something the taxpayers should come under consideration when they are voting, and when they are lobbying their senators and the like. where their money is going when they, too, are having their job and income decimated. >> melissa: ad, kennedy, this conversation, it really brings back to the fort that we are all connected economically. there are some lucky people who would say, "thank goodness, i'm still receiving a paycheck every day because i work for the government." or because they do these other things. you feel like maybe are not affected by the restaurant closing on the corner, or by

retail sales going away. but then you realize, no, there is income tax that is not being collected from most people. there is sales tax not being collected pair that will impact the government. in other words, yours may not be the thing to disappear first. but it will disappear, as this goes on. right? >> kennedy: and that's why it -- yes, absolutely. it is this irresponsible spending that gets the states into a real bind, when you talk about places like california that are beholden to these public-sector unions, and essentially owned by them. they don't have rainy day funds, when the money dries up. william is right, we've seen this in places like detroit and san bernardino, california. when there is an economic crisis, it is these first responders that are the first ones to be cut. a lot of those public-sector pensions and giveaways aren't maintained, with no way to pay for them. it creates this cycle of,

really, irresponsible spending that hurts people tremendously in the end. the spigot is going to dry up, and we are headed toward austerity. if we don't come up with a plan, very, very soon, for businesses and workers to do something together. i know a lot of people have talked about it, there are people who are willing to work in a place where there is social distancing, or they can wear masks or have their temperature taken, some sort of mutual agreement between employers and people who really want to get back at work, having systems like that in place so they can go out and make money. because that's the name of the game. >> melissa: harris? >> harris: you know, you guys may not like this. i've been making a laundry list the whole time i've been sitting here. i have so many questions. we talk about the depression, we talk about the rise in domestic violence in homes already vulnerable. those vulnerable families. the children there. this is collateral damage that

touches all of us. we are in a world, collectively, with all those people. and then, i scratch my head, emily, as i can you talking about the west coast. california's homelessness problem. if you are putting money in people's pockets, i wonder what that is going to look like in a configuration if that state that has to go to the federal government for help -- i just have so many questions. but here's one for you, melissa. two more weeks in new york. that means new jersey will likely see month, because we are about two weeks behind you. extended lockdown. you look in my little town of edgewater new jersey, in the county with the most cases and deaths in the state, there are fewer and fewer things that are open. just fewer things -- because the grocery store, you can't have more than several people in them now. things are feeling the squeeze of supply lines, two more weeks in new york, though? that is going to feel like a long time, i would imagine.

he lived there. no, honestly, reading that, i want to cry. i can't imagine two more weeks. you look at things like large chunks of the u.s. economy, frozen. march retail sales fell by 8.7%. this is review. the most ever in government data. sales a clothing store is down 50%, spending, motor vehicles, furniture, electronics, sporting goods, also by delta double digits. these are things that have already happened. imagine that there's going be two more weeks of that. i just don't know what's going to be left when we do finally go outside at this point. meanwhile, suspending -- yeah. after they said they would not treat coronavirus patients without proper protection, as nurses in another state threatened to sue over what they call it a lack of personal protective equipment. ♪ i've got some terrific news for veteran homeowners from newday usa. interest rates have dropped to record lows.

newday usa makes it so easy to refinance that one call can save you $2000 a year. newday's va streamline refi lets you refinance without having to verify your income, without getting your home appraised and without spending one dollar out of pocket to get it done. it is the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered. one call can save you $2000 a year, every year. i do motivational speakingld. fhr@ttkf ñ&7erma6pndf in addition to the substitute teaching.

i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

♪ >> harris: one california hospital reportedly is suspending ten nurses after those nurses refused to care for covid-19 patients unless they were provided with n95 face masks. those masks are designed to filter out 95% of airborne particles, including some which can pass through regular surgical masks. the hospital says they are providing a 95 masks to all of the nurses caring for covid-19 patients. meanwhile, the new york state nurses association is preparing to file three lawsuits monday over a lack of personal protective equipment, or ppe, as you've been hearing. over what it considers dangerous guidance from the state department of health. it would be the first such lawsuit since the pandemic began. then unions has nurses have been asked to reuse their masks,

gowns, face shields, and other vital equipment meant to keep them safe. dr. makary, this is not a fresh chapter in this story. it is perhaps one of the worst chapters in this story, however. how did we get beyond this point? i feel like we are back at the beginning. to get people what they need and make sure it is sanitary for them. >> dr. makary: look, i got my glove nurses. they got me through residency and take care of my patients. they need to ppe in the hospital should've provided it. honest to god, what does a lawsuit accomplished at this point? it helps feed the lawyers' business, it helps the union's posture as if they are pro-nursing. look, i'm in favor of nurses organizing, but not unionizing. they end up skimming money right out of paychecks and doing things like this. most of those union offices are converted to campaign offices. medicine is different. being a doctor, being a nurse, it's different from any other job.

when there is someone in a fire, we run into that fire. we don't run away. level three masks have been used for years for droplet precautions, and they could have been used here. i am mixed on this story. >> harris: wow. emily, that's interesting. dr. makary kind of waded into your legal lane. pick it up. >> emily: [laughs] okay, for viewers, i will explain a little bit more about what's going on. the new york state nurses association, as he eloquently outlined in the beginning, harris, they are making two arguments. they are saying we don't have enough ppe, and there also was a dangerous guidance issued by the state health department. just to give you some numbers, they are arguing that 3 out of 4 of those 43,000 member nurses were exposed to the virus. they say 11% or higher were contracting the disease, and up to 60% had inadequate ppe. the hospitals, in defense, or saying, "we were just following

guidance." as the nurses say, "we were in a group repaired." we will see that tension play out in the court. if the cdc, or the state felt the permit come issues guidance, is it enough to essentially cover the liability from the hospital's? in southern california, the nurses there are arguing that they were suspended or disciplined for failing to work because they say they weren't given proper ppe. one of the nurses was quoted as saying, "look, these infection control protocols happening right now, if they happen before the pandemic, it would have been grounds for discipline. it's as if all of this has been thrown out the window. now we are not given these and 95 masks, we are not going to expose ourselves." >> harris: emily, what you are saying is they would have been targeted or challenged before a pandemic for not being enough, some of these protocols. so, certainly during the pandemic it would make certain they are not. but i have a question, emily, just in terms of how the nurses are getting the word out.

dr. makary was talking about it, the lawsuit, the best way to handle this. should they go to the press? that sort of thing. would that be precontract with some of these unions, or how would that work? >> emily: many of the seams are made through the union spokespeople. also the lawsuit statement of facts. it is interesting, because the union there is a very sensitive aspect to union membership and employment, which says that you should never discipline or infringe upon an employee's right to air grievances about their employer. there is no way that, if a nurse and complain, they would get in trouble, essentially, for doing so against the employer. that's to protect those whistle-blowers. >> harris: all right. kennedy? >> kennedy: harris, i want to add something. first of all, both my daughters were born at providence st. john's in santa monica. it's a great hospital. the nurses are incredible. the nurses are the people the patients interact with, 80% of the time. they need to be protected. we are hearing from nurses from new york to california and all

points in between that they have been threatened into silence by their employers. not very different from what the communist chinese government was doing with some of the whistle-blower doctors. they have to be protected. they have to be safe. because they go back, they have children and family members of their own, there nurses that sto did test positive for covid-19. there is another hospital across town, cedars-sinai, where the nurses there were given n95 masks, and they shouldn't be suspended. they shouldn't be disciplined. they have to be able to, first of all, keep people safe. second of all, speak about it. it's their safety is not care of by hospital in administration. >> harris: all right, we are going to scoot to a commercial break. a lot of passion in that discussion right there, because we know that they are on the front lines for all of us. you've seen the signs. stay home, so they can stay working and stay safe. a top member of the white house

coronavirus task force says professional sports could return this summer. however, with at least one big difference that one league is said to be considering. speak of people say, "well, you can't play without spectators." well, i think you probably get enough buy-in from people dying to see a baseball game. ♪ ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo-hoo! great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health.

and nutrients to veteran50-year lows.ortgage rates have fallen to but did you know that your va benefit lets you easily refinance to a lower rate? one call to newday can save you $2000 a year. with newday's va streamline refi there's no income verification, no home appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. it's the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered. call newday now.

tb=g daddy, i found you! good job. now i'm gonna stay here and you go hide. watch your favorites from anywhere in the house with the xfinity stream app. free with your xfinity service. now any room can be a tv room. stream live tv, on demand shows and movies, even your dvr recordings. download the xfinity stream app today to stream the entertainment you love.

>> melissa: when could we see a return for sports? dr. anthony fauci offering up a couple ideas to make sure fans and athletes are safe. >> there's a way of doing that. nobody comes to the stadium. put them in big hotels, wherever you want to play. keep them very well surveilled, but have them tested, like, every week. make sure they don't wind up infecting each other or their family, and just let them play the season out. >> melissa: and the national football league is reportedly discussing some of those ideas in private. a source telling "the washington post," "the nfl is planning for everything from playing without fans to playing and full stadiums. we know there will be a push from the federal government to open things up." dr. makary, let me ask you -- we want life to get back to normal.

sports is part of that. what is the safe way to do it, do you think, when you hear them talking about these ideas of basically quarantining the teams and having them play in one spot to empty stadiums? does not sound realistic? >> dr. makary: first of all, i live in washington, d.c. our stadium is normally empty during the football season anyway here. i think it is certainly feasible that the tv rights continue and that people get to watch football. and i'm more concerned about the staff and the athletic department, and those who work in the stadiums, to be honest, more so than the players. the players are generally in their 20s, they are very healthy. it should be optional, if they want to opt out of playing during the covid time. they can. those helmets are high technology devices, and certainly a simple polyester covering over the mouth guard of the steel portion of the mask is very feasible. remember, sweat does not spread the virus. so i think we are going to see an nfl season this year.

i just don't like the idea of big crowds gathering to watch, sitting close together. >> melissa: what an interesting idea, that you can put something on the helmets in order to keep people safe. kennedy, what do you think about our yearning to get back to normal and to see sports? >> kennedy: i miss sports so much. it is such an important -- not only a release, it's an important release valve, but it's also a way that we come together. we don't have that to share right now. i think we have to think outside the box. if we are going to have social distancing, allow people to make a decision. maybe you sell a third or half the seats in the stadium. space them out so no one is sitting next to each other. maybe you bring your own snacks and booze! who would do that at a baseball game? know when i can think of. [laughter] >> melissa: this is a very creative solution. i love that idea. emily, what do you think? >> emily: there have been a ton of creative ideas that have

been thrown around, especially around nfl, nba, and mlb. sports like golf might be easier to be introduced sooner, although some may argue it's not as exciting as the other sports. i want to point out something about the athletes themselves, that for those who are arguing their health or in younger and whatnot, there's also the flip side. which is that any type of diminished lung capacity, should they contract the disease and actually suffer from it, could be career-ending. in addition to their health, it's also their future economic employment. and value to the team. >> melissa: that's very true. more "outnumbered" a moment. we'll be right back.

what does it mean to be a good neighbor? it means being there for each other. that's why state farm is announcing the good neighbor relief program we know our customers are driving less, which means fewer accidents. so state farm is returning $2 billion dollars to auto policyholders for the period ending may 31st. and we'll continue making real time decisions

to best serve you - our customers. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there.

with mortgage rates at record beinhomlows, s. ghbor means everything. one call to newday can save you $2000 a year. it's that simple. with their va streamline refi, there's no income verification or home appraisal. and this refi costs you absolutely nothing out of pocket. it's the quickest and easiest refi newday has ever offered. one call can save you $2000. >> melissa: and our thanks to dr. marty makary for joining us today, and to the rest of the virtual couch, as we are spread out all over the place.

but we will be back here together, at least in theory, at noon tomorrow. "outnumbered overtime" with harris faulkner starts right n now. ♪ >> harris: this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. fewer than two hours from now, president trump is scheduled to unveil new federal guidelines for reopening the economy, and the stakes, as you know, could not be higher as the plane is rolled out to the next steps in the coronavirus response. the president yesterday suggested some of the areas of the nation could be back in business before may 1st. here is the president. >> the battle continues, but the data suggests that, nationwide, we have passed the peak on new cases. we will be opening up some states much sooner than others. we think some of the states can actually open up before the deadline of may 1st. governors are looking