mets! what do you think? >> sandra: [laughs] a source tells "the new york post" it's real! we'll see where that goes. all right, ed. a great three hours with you. great to be with all of you. thanks for joining us. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert, the governors of georgia, south carolina, and tennessee announcing plans to begin reopening some businesses and wind down stay at orders amid signs the coronavirus outbreak may be slowing in certain areas. georgia allowing certain businesses like gyms and hair salons to begin reopening this friday, but governor brian kemp saying social distancing rules remain in place, and urging businesses to enhance sanitation and check workers' temperatures. >> i'm taking this measure to action. we will get georgians back to work safely without undermining the progress that we all have made in this battle against

covid-19. >> melissa: south carolina also letting some retail stores open today, and tennessee's governor confirming his stay at home order april 30th. in the meantime, more protests against stay-at-home orders across the country today including raleigh, north carolina. governor roy cooper says the demonstration is allowed, as long as protesters follow social distancing rules. this is "outnumbered." i'm melissa francis. here today, harris faulkner. marie harf, executive director of serve america pac. en fox news contributor, dr. nicole saphier, new york city physician and fox news contributor. she's the author of the new book, "make america healthy again," that is out today. joining us as well on the couch is a host of "the next revolution," steve hilton. he is "outnumbered." steve, let me start with you. what do you think of these protests? what do you make of them? are people getting fed up of being at home?

>> steve: i think it's more than fed up. the economic and social and public health cost of the shutdown is something i've been certainly talking about for weeks now. i think in the long term it's going to be greater than the cost of the coronavirus itself. that's why it's so important that we get the economy opened up as quickly as possible, and as safely as possible. as we do that and as we think about that, as the states think about it, i think we need to be led, as were always told, by the data and the science. the latest data just out yesterday, a new survey in los angeles, before last week we saw that data from santa clara county, tells a couple of really important things. first of all, that this virus is much more prevalent already in society than the official numbers are told despair that means is much less deadly than we been told what that means, i think, as we think about reopening, we've got to understand that it's already out there.

the virus is out there. people are going to get it. they've got already in los angeles, up to half a million have already got it. most of them didn't even know they've got it. the real point here is to protect the vulnerable. for a certain group of people, it's incredibly dangerous. it's really deadly. i think we need to do a much better job of really defining what that phrase "protect the vulnerable" means. if you look at new york, for example, if you look at what happened over the past few weeks, because there wasn't enough guidance given to people about what "protect the vulnerable" really means, who is the most vulnerable? howdy protect them? i think we might have seen the tragic consequent of the certain orders. people more affected than we knew, what the shutdown did was send many of thousands of infected people into homes where they then infected elderly and vulnerable people, because they didn't know how to protect him. that's got to be the priority. how do we protect the

vulnerable? specifically, what does that mean? >> melissa: some interesting things in there. dr. saphier, i want to ask you. i heard bill mccarron from "the wall street journal" say something really smart yesterday, that we need to transition from protecting the healthy to protecting the vulnerable. that has to be the focus. that's a lot of what steve hilton just said. with that be effective at this point in time? what does that mean, that you sort of quarantine off those who have comorbidities or whether they have immune to efficiency, if they are legally? with that work? >> dr. saphier: that's right, melissa. steve made some really good points. we are talking about the tests that came out of usc and santa clara, when they are looking at the prevalence to see who has recovered from this, where those antibodies are. there are a lot of swabs, selection bias and accuracy errors in this testing, but it goes against the bigger pressure

right now. people who contract this illness, many are ace and thematic we have over 700,000 confirmed cases, those are the symptom addict. those are those symptomatic enough to go and get tested. there is millions of people who have already had this viral infection and have recovered. those small studies are good snapshots, confirming that. we know this will be far less deadly, as steve mentioned, then we originally sought or where originally told by other countries' data. that being said, there is still a big vulnerable population that can have severe side effects from this viral infection. right now, we can't wait for this antibody tests to open up the economy. we are going to have far too many people dying for overdoses and suicide in the economic fallout waiting for it. the truth is this large-scale testing is likely not, in reality, going to be happening anytime soon. left open things up, but in a very smart way. that is stratifying risk. the people who are vulnerable, perhaps you list the at-home orders for for younger, healthir

population. the people who are older, elderly, immunocompromised, carmel since, maybe they need to consider staying home and try and keep them safe as possible, until we have proven treatments as well as a vaccine. >> harris: okay. along those lines, harris, we've got some great news today from the fda, saying there is now a convenient and reliable option for patient sample collection from the comfort and safety of their home. labcorp intends to make kits available to consumers in most states with a doctor's order in the coming weeks. that is certainly good news. >> harris: yeah. and, you know, we're getting some good feedback and information from a government now trying to get whatever testing does happen in a doctor's office. i don't know if they will be able to fold in those home tests, as well. i imagine you'd report that your doctor. all of that now is being funneled to the cdc. that's very important.

as dr. saphier just said, if we want to get your idea of not just how many people have had this and either perished or survived, unfortunately, in the first category, but also maybe a hint at how many people might have antibodies. since that seems to be slow coming online, testing for that. all of that gets us back to whatever the new normal is going to be, we hope. my big question, though, how do we quarantine people continuously who are at risk? how does that, in fact, affects the workforce? they are important parts of the workforce, too pay your average age, i've been reading, is between 68 and 73. of those who perish from this. and those who really have tough cases, dr. saphier. everybody, really, but i think probably you on this one -- a lot of people are retired, but you have people with comorbidities in their 40s and 50s. if you quarantine them out of the economy for so long, you

start to impact the economy overall, i would think. i don't know. what would you think? >> dr. saphier: absolutely, i agree with you, harris. we can't underestimate those in their 60s and 70s. they still make up a strong amount of our workforce out there. if they need to get back and there is not an option for them to be working from home, then we have to consider, what can we get to them? how can we keep them safe? i call upon their employees to figure out means for them to be safe. whether they potentially could consider wearing an n95 mask, whether they get their own office, their own cubicle, they're not testin touching neas much. perhaps too could digitally attend meetings. if they're in the customer service industry, it would really behoove them at that point to wear a mask and even ask customers to wear a mask, as well. to protect their employees. at this point, i can tell you, i think everybody is going to be a little more hygienic moving forward. everyone will be washing their hands more, everyone will be a little more conscious about touching their face. i just think that in itself is going to help decrease the

transmission of the virus. >> melissa: marie, your thoughts as we try to make this transition back and try to delicately balance the idea that it's going be very hard for our economy to recover? that is always hardest on the poorest among us. >> marie: leasing the inequalities in how covid has impacted americans. people who still have to ride public transportation to go to work. people who aren't able to work from home like many of us are. those are both economic and racial disparities that we really seen from this virus. but the question of testing is still the one at the front of many people's minds. why do we not have more tests? i remember the white house task force standing behind the podium and talking about how you'd be able to drive through walmart, cvs, all these places to get a test in your car. and there are very few of those. i guess the question many of these governors and, quite

frankly, many citizens have before they will feel comfortable going out is, "where are the tests, and where is the ppe?" we talked a lot about how health care professionals can't get masks. they certainly can't get the n95 masks, but just basic masks. how will average citizens, particularly vulnerable citizens, feel comfortable going out in public before we have widespread testing, widespread ppe, and widespread contact tracing? look, we're going to see what happens in these states that are starting to reopen a little bit. when you watch these protests, which are actually much smaller, i think, then many people realize, overwhelming polling shows people are still social distancing. when he wants these protests, they are not standing 6 feet apart. they are not social distancing. so, what happens when people go back out and don't pay attention to the rules and end up back in the health care system? we will see some data out of the states in the coming days and weeks. >> melissa: no doubt. when you ask about where the testing and where the ppe are, we have learned in recent days

that china is in fact awarding a lot of those materials and did so in advance of the spread in this country, as well. we are still trying to catch up. president trump announcing that he plans to temporarily suspend legal immigration as the nation battles the virus. what he says this is a necessary step. that's next. ♪

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is good musical >> harris: president trump has announced he will sign an executive order to temporarily halt all immigration to the united states due to the coronavirus pandemic. the president tweeted last night, "in light of the attack from the invisible enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our great american citizens, i will be signing an executive order to temporarily suspend immigration into the united states!" steve, "the wall street journal" among others has been reporting that pretty much things have come to a halt anyway. very few people can apply for a visa to visit, to move to the united states. visa interviews and citizenship ceremonies have been postponed. the refugee program has been paused. if you cut it our southern

border, you immediately sent back. so the process is not what it had been. why is this executive order needed at this time? >> steve: i think the first thing i want to say about this is i'm in favor of legal immigration, it wouldn't be here without it. i want to make sure everyone understands that. >> harris: good point. >> steve: i was very much of a fan of the president's earlier plan to reform immigration, to reduce the amount of people coming here for family connections and to increase the proportion coming here through real skills the country needed rather than a lot of the bogus stuff we see in the system today. since then, times have changed. the big number that we all need to focus on is the minimum of 22 million. it's probably a lot more than that. americans who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, in the last few weeks. it's just an unbelievable economic and social catastrophe,

that's going to tear apart our social fabric. for years to come, unless we do everything we can to get those americans in to work as soon as possible. that's the thinking behind this, we need to understand the details a bit more. we will see more as the day goes by. the other point i want to make is a political point. the outreach we've seen this since the president street, particularly from the left on the others in the media, i think is completely hypocritical. for weeks now, they've been saying, "let's use this crisis, let's use these events to try and advance our agenda." you for that on the left all across the board. this is a chance to make the case for medicare for all. this is the chance to make the case for a welfare state. they've been doing it with their agenda, the bend of the president tries to do with his agenda that is well known, suddenly it's an outrage. it's just so hypercritical. i think we need to be clear about that, too.

>> harris: so, melissa, from what steve said, i have a follow-up question for you. it has to do with what jobs people coming across the border can expect to get or want. and how many of those 22, perhaps -- and i think steve makes an excellent point, the number is probably bigger than that, because it continues to grow -- what part of the 22 million we know about at this point have lost their jobs would be in direct competition with those crossing the border or coming into the country as potentially new citizens, depending on their path? >> melissa: i think the point is probably not as much around jobs as it is about our social welfare state. that right now every single city and state is going to go deeply into debt to try and support the people that are there, as folks are out of work and you have unemployment and every single governor or mayor is screaming that they need money from the feds in order to take care of their citizens. so, perhaps one point of this is that, while economies all around

the world are going to be demonstratedevastated by what h, in theory they will be a lot more people coming to america to try and take advantage of our social welfare program that is a safety net for people, as they find themselves on hard economic times. i'm not totally sure that would be the motivation for what is here. i think this reminds me of when the president's tweets about something that seems like it's out of left field, if you've been watching them for a while. it usually means he has seen data the rest of us haven't seen. it's a reaction to the infection rate. reminds him of when he said trump tower was wiretapped and everybody went, "what, that's insane." and then we learned what that was about. when he said he would shut down travel from europe and people look up in the morning outraged and hysterical. and we found out what that was about, that there was this surge in italy and all across europe. i think there is more to the story that we just don't know

yet. >> harris: that's interesting. i haven't seen exactly which areas of the world this might target the most, if you will. and whether the pandemic is worse. marie, what is your take on it? >> marie: the u.s. is pretty much the epidemic for this pandemic now. this is not targeted like a previous travel restrictions were on china or certain places in europe. but i'm looking at this through a very political lens, harris. immigration is the issue president trump goes back to always whenever he feels politically challenged, whenever he feels like he needs to reassure his base. it's the signature issue, as steve mentioned, that donald trump ran out in 2016. even before the crisis, he has wanted to limit legal immigration. he's been very clear about that. this is really, i think, in the context of president trump's poll numbers dipping a little bit. he's getting a lot of heat from governors, certainly from democrats but from others as well, including some republicans

and independents. immigration is the issue. when he feels like he's in a corner, he goes back. because it was a winning one for him, with his supporters in 2016. the details are still very murky, as often happens when he announced policies on twitter. we will see if there are a carve-i would point us are people who work in the food chain, harvesting food in placee california. that's really important right now. even more important than maybe normal times. >> harris: sit by, everybody. the standoff over new coronavirus release funding could end soon, as the white house and congress appear closer to an agreement. of course, i feel like i say that every day. next, the latest on where things actually stand, and whether the package will be enough for small businesses who are desperate for help. >> staff was up all night, writing. are still a few more is to dot and ts to cross, but we have a

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♪ >> i think we will be able to pass this today. last night, well past midnight, speaker pelosi, myself, chief of staff meadows, and secretary of state mnuchin were on the phone we came to an agreement on just about every issue. >> melissa: top democrat chuck schumer express and optimism a better deal between the white house and congress on additional small business funding. the senate is expected to try and pass the bill later today by unanimous consent. the house could also take it up on thursday. they could then take it up on thursday, pardon me. still, many lawmakers are frustrated over the length of these negotiations. republican senator john cornyn sounding off. >> that's why it's so important to replenish this fund. we knew this is very popular

program. it seemed to be working believe he intended, by keeping people connected to their employer. there was more demand than we were prepared for, and that's why it's important react quick quickly. unfortunately senator schumer and speaker pelosi did not have the same sense of urgency. >> melissa: they have reportedly told politico -- even as the legislation is finalized, they reportedly told politico the $310 billion reserved for the paycheck protection program may only last a few days before more funding is needed. marie, what comes with this is their good intentions, often times, behind holding these things up. they were talking about having read the articles, about companies that were huge publicly-traded companies, who qualified to get the program. they said, "this is only for mom-and-pop." that every time you come back to tinker with it, to make it better, it takes longer. and the small businesses have

maybe 14 days' cash on hand. it's really worrisome. what are your thoughts? >> marie: both sides wanted things in this piece of legislation that looks like they're going to get. and it looks like they will vote on it this week, which is very good thing. it's also good it includes money for hospitals. it looks like it's going to include a chunk of money for hospitals, which is one of the things democrats were holding up in part to get more money for those businesses, as well. we've seen reports that many of them are very close to going under financially, too. this is a good program, in theory. i think, to your point, we need to go back and look at how it's been up lamented. these huge corporations we seen these arcti articles about, ruts chris, for example, should they benefit from huge payouts when these small businesses were shut out? hopefully there will be a little bit of oversight going forward and hopefully we will get more money past this week and get it to the small businesses. lord knows, they need it.

>> melissa: steve, this is exactly why you can't count on the government. there's always going to be a blunder. you can't write it perfectly. in the language it said, "less than 500 workers at a location." that's how various restaurant chains ended up qualifying. they didn't do anything wrong, they qualified. they went ahead and got the money. obviously it was not intended for a business like that. it was intended for these businesses that we are showing on the screen, here. in order to get things right, it takes forever. a lot of places -- at least in my neighborhood, it's too little, too late. they're gone. >> steve: of course. there is so much wrong with this whole story. of course it is encouraging that they might finally be getting to a deal, but it shouldn't even be a negotiation. weeks ago, now, mitch mcconnell, all he wanted to do was change the number and the legislation. no negotiation, just get the money out there to get these businesses and keep these businesses alive. since that happened, since

pelosi and schumer have been holding it off, you've had tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of businesses close as their direct result of their hold up. millions of people lost their jobs, as a direct result of their hold up. these are the people that go on and on about working families. they put families out of work as a result of this. so, shame on them for holding it up. the central point is exactly what you just made, melissa. the idea that the government, whether you get a good deal on this or not, can float the economy for as long as we want. because somehow the technocrats in washington are going to figure it all out and get the money to the right people. it's totally ridiculous. it reemphasizes why we need to reopen the economy safely but soon. we can't go on like this. >> melissa: yeah. harris, your thoughts? >> harris: i was looking at this report by cnbc, several of the companies have market values within an excess of $100 million. there's a long list. he said restaurant groups. they did with the legislation

said, melissa. you are right about that. they followed the wording. what can we do on the back end of this connect something has to be done. steve is right, we can't go on in perpetuity these way. some of these businesses will give the money they want, though, because they've competed already in the marketplace for billions of dollars that have gone out. has it been rewritten so that doesn't happen again? i think we better look for that. in the meantime, for the first $350 billion, can we look at maybe taxing of these companies that should not really have gotten it? they didn't break the rule. the rule was written less than creatively. but can we pat them on the back to get some of that money back into the flow of the system? can they make a generous donation of it back, the way she expected? what does making it right look like for a legitimate small business that is, as steve said, closing by the moment? >> melissa: in the meantime, oil prices --

>> marie: sorry about that marie mentioned that hospital systems are close to closing, she's obsolete right. they were holding out on the passage, trying to get more many possible systems. the wire hospital systems on the brink of closing right now. the government stepped in and said they have to stop all elective procedures, which is the majority of hospitals make money. why couldn't they have left it to the hospital system? what is necessary, what is unnecessary schematic doctors themselves can actually keep the pulse on the availability of beds and ventilators and they should be the ones who are allowed to make those decisions. they should be the ones able to say when it's okay to start doing some of these elective procedures again. perhaps they would need such a bailout. i could tell you, in the new york tri-state area right now, we have a lot more patients being discharged with covid then we have coming in right now. that means we actually have empty beds. we are able to be given more procedures here. but because the governors on not allowing it, they're not letting them do any of these elective surgeries. which is why hospitals are being

starved for cash. >> melissa: luckily that's our topic in the next block. we will get to that in just a moment. in the meantime, oil prices plunging into negative territory yesterday for the first time ever as a pandemic pushes demand off a cliff. the dow losing almost 600 points yesterday, and still falling today. president trump at yesterday's coronavirus task force briefing, calling oil's historic price drop a "short term problem," and suggesting we take this opportunity to fill the u.s. strategic petroleum reserve. >> this is a great time to buy oil. we'd like to have congress approved it, so we can, instead of just storing it for usually the big companies. i think we have 75 million gallons right now capacity. that's a lot. we've been building it up over a period of time. that's a lot, 75 million barrels. so we are going to get -- we will either ask for permission to buy it, or will store it one

way or the other, it will be full. >> melissa: this is just amazing. i have covered oil for a very long time, and my financial reporting career, traveling around the world to opec meetings, on the floor of the mercantile exchange. steve hilton, i never thought i'd see something i could spray the press oil going negative means nobody wants to take it. didn't want to get delivery of it because they don't have any place to store it. i wish i could store it in my backyard. what is this emblematic of? the entire world has literally ground to a halt. we don't need any fuel right now to go anywhere. this really was pretty terrifying to me yesterday. steve, what are your thoughts? >> steve: that's exactly right. this is the shut down on a global scale. that is why, again, just as we were discussing before, of course we try and handle the situation in the moment. but the real solution is to open up the world economy as soon as safely possible. to that end, i think we really need to take on this emerging

groupthink i'm seeing all the around the world. which is that the only way you can safely be open is through widespread testing. testing, testing, testing. isolating. it's impossible, what you now know, to do that on the scale -- >> melissa: okay. steve, i'm so sorry, there are gremlins in your audio there. we are going to try and fix that so we can have you back in full force in the next block. and we will have more "outnumbered" in just a moment. for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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that one call can save you $2000 a year. newday's va streamline refi lets you refinance without having to verify your income, without getting your home appraised and without spending one dollar out of pocket to get it done. it is the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered. one call can save you $2000 a year, every year. >> harris: democratic donors are showing joe biden some love, apparently. his campaign says he raised nearly $47 million in march. his best fund-raising month of the campaign. actually, more than president trump, as he took control of the democratic party. the presumptive democratic nominee tweeted this, in part.

"this virus has changed our campaign, but it has not change the unwavering support we've gotten from all of you. together, we are going to defeat trump." however, joe biden and his political party are nearly, in total, $187 million behind the rnc and the president. who you may know has spent the last three years stockpiling his huge war chest. as "the new york times" points out, joe biden and the democrats could raise a million dollars a day between now and election day and still barely catch up. steve hilton, you've seen a campaign or two across the pond. how do you catch up when you can't even get the bully pulpit anymore? every day between 5:00 and 7:00 or so p.m. eastern, you can't get a word in edge wise, joe biden. >> steve: yeah. when he does try to get a word in edge wise, it's been something jumbled and incoherent and not exactly what you want to hear in the middle of such a serious situation. even the performances he does

manage to put on her not exactly reassuring. it seems to me there's a lot of complacency building on the democrat side that joe biden is just going to -- she's going to make a mess of this crisis, he will obviously be defeated. that's complete wrong. i think, actually, elections tend to be more about the future than the past. the arguments in november all line up in favor of president trump. everything he's been saying for so long on trade, bringing manufacturing home, as we saw earlier on immigration, all these things -- china, lets arrive at that big one -- she's on the right side. president trump is on the right side of those big arguments. joe biden, mr. establishment, mr. swamp, is on the wrong side of those arguments. that's going to be decisive in the general election. >> harris: you know, marie harf, in recent days we been reading more and more about the reporting that former president barack obama had a heavier hand, if you will, behind-the-scenes when bernie sanders was still in the race and kind of smoothing that

whole thing out. now he's getting ready to help he and the former first lady, michelle obama, reportedly help joe biden on the campaign trail. how much is that going to make a difference? >> marie: i can guarantee you democrats are not complacent. i promise, it may seem that way to him, but the democrats i talk to, it's anything but complacency. for joe biden, he had a trifecta of really important endorsements in the last week. barack obama, as you mention, harris, brady sanders, who endorsed biden much earlier than he endorsed hillary in 2016, and elizabeth warren. who still has a lot of support in many parts of the party. democrats are behind overall in money, but if money won elections, hillary clinton would be president. we know it's not determinative. the other important money numbers to look at, harris, or in the house and senate races. they are out raising their republican opponents by leaps and bounds. senate candidates like mark kelly, doing the same thing.

susan collins, getting outraised right now. up in maine, by sarah gideon. democrats are putting their money to the presidency, but also to the house and senate races, to keep the house and help with the senate. democrats are fired up and they are unified earlier than they were in 2016. >> harris: marie, i would point this out. the playing field isn't exactly the same when you talk about, "well, if money had been the answer, hillary clinton could have won." hillary clinton was not going up against a pandemic and a juggernaut of news conferences every day between 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. by a number whose apresident whose numbers are pretty steady. there's a pretty tight grasp when you look at them pictorially. the president is holding steady through this, throughout this. you're going to need some cash, cold hard cash, to get on the airwaves. as steve pointed out, even getting a word in edge wise is hard. it's hard to do online. it doesn't quite compare. >> marie: harris, it's

interesting. i think you and i have this conversation, maybe last week on "outnumbered." you're right, the president has a bully pulpit like no one else's, standing behind that white house podium. at the same time, he's also sang a number of things that are immediately ending up in joe biden's attack ad. because the president likes to talk a lot. sometimes it's not precise, it's not entirely truthful, like, "i don't take any responsibility," or, "i don't take responsibility." is a double-edged sword, that bully pulpit. for joe biden, the case has always been a return to normal normalcy. right now he may be the establishment but he seems stable. voters are looking for stability right now. >> harris: i've got to tell you, when steve says, "gosh, all things able to do at this point," i want to give you a quick last word. the future is now every day, late in the afternoon, the get more. he's got more ink, right now, as

we see in journalism, than the former vice president. >> steve: yes. although the media and the democrats love to portray the worst aspects of what comes out on a daily basis, i think what more neutral minded and independent and reason people see there is a president who has really taken charge of this. he's on top of the details. whether that's ventilators or ppe or whatever else, he's really taking charge. every day they are seeing that. that's what you want to see in a crisis. as we see, potentially the light at the end of the tunnel, through question turns to, "who's going to help rebuild this country after the economic and social disaster of the shutdowns?" i think there is no contest in terms of who has more credibility with those crucial independent-minded voters. about who is best to do that. i think president trump has all the arguments in his sight. >> harris: well, you too will

have to agree to disagree it's interesting to talk about. america is about to learn together, a special virtual town hall that i will be hosting just a few minutes from now. we are going to explore how parents and teachers are banding together to educate our children in these tough times. not all, but many, digitally. among my guests, two former education secretary's bill bennett and arne duncan, answering your questions. and, of course, parents and teachers. a lot has changed in the last few weeks. but one thing hasn't: breakfast. and, if that feels like a little bit of comfort, it's thanks to... the farmers, the line workers and truckers, the grocery stockers and cashiers, and the food bank workers, because right now breakfast as usual is more essential than ever. to everyone around the world working so hard to bring breakfast to the table, thank you.

>> melissa: we are looking live at the white house, where the governor of new york is going to be arriving later this afternoon in order to meet with the president. they have traded barbs from a distance. in fairness, they've traded some compliments from a distance, as well. this meeting will no doubt be focused a lot on money, and the money that the state of new york thinks it needs in order to reopen for business. which is something the president wants very much. steve, let me start with you. this is what governor cuomo said. if you don't help the state government and local government, how are we supposed to have the finances to reopen? it makes me feel like he's holding us hostage here in new york, that he's not going to

lead us out of our houses and he's not going to let businesses reopen unless the president gives him money. i would just remind them that he was already $6 billion in the hole before the current of virus showed up. what are your thoughts? >> steve: we need to know what the money is for. of course, we need money in the emergency situation. the money has been provided and the equipment has been provided. remember, he want all those ventilators. the white house provided more than that what they needed. and through that many times. in terms of reopening, what i'm worried about is this group think that's emerging. i touched on earlier. i don't know if the audio problems got on the way of it. the group think we are seeing. that the only way you can reopen is through widespread, massive testing. testing everybody for the virus and then going through this program of isolating everyone who's got the virus, tracing their contacts, all the rest of it. that is really expensive. the latest data tells us that it's not actually necessary. because so many more people have

got it than we thought. the fatality rate is so much lower than we thought. instead of all that, bureaucra bureaucracy, we need to protect the vulnerable. it would be useful conversation. >> melissa: let's let dr. stuff i respond to that. his widespread testing needed to reopen the economy back that has been what so many people have said. what is your medical opinion? >> dr. saphier: well, i think that is one option. but i don't think the concept of widespread testing in a population such as ours is realistic. what i would love to see the two of them discuss is how they're going to incentivize employers to implement their own internal housing systems, and that way they can decide who can come back to work, who cannot. what about, also, incentivizing the public to actually use the contact tracing apps that have been developed by google and elsewhere? they worry it's an infringement on privacy, but if you have more accessibility to testing and you do have more contact tracing, people can actually go back to work. as long as we keep a pulse on the hospital beds availability, like i mentioned, we know our

hospital system can carry out and help people who do get infected with the virus. we have to do that before we can open our doors and let people back. >> melissa: all right. well, our own dr. nicole saphier, out with a brand-new book today, "make america healthy." she's going to tell us all about it when we come back. that's next. ♪

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>> melissa: dr. nicole saphier has a new book out, "make america healthy again." it looks of the problems with their health care system and how each of us can help fix them. dr. saphier, this is the perfect time for something like this. >> dr. saphier: let me tell you, melissa, it's exciting. it's on the most opportune time, but i'm excited. information is very important. when major things with the pandemic. one, the integrity of the american people is like no other. because of our swift action and people's commitment to staying healthy, we have flatten the curve and a majority of places across our country.

we also highlighted the chronic illness problem we've had in our country. one, because chronic illness decreases your immune system, and the ability to fight off infection. but also because our hospital systems are overwhelmed by the amount of chronic illness may have. a lot of that, anywhere from 50-80%, potentially could have been prevented through lifestyle choices changes. i talk about it in my book, how government intrusion has actually made some of these problems worse. but i also talk about some easy to follow ways on how you can actually individually get yourself healthier but also get that country healthier so we all live our best lives. also decrease the cost on our country while doing it. >> melissa: it so true. one thing we have learned from this crisis is that there are a lot of people out there who have underlying health conditions that they didn't know about. when they go in and become very sick as a result of this virus, and they find out, "wow, this person has diabetes, they have this." that made it so much harder for those folks along this road. hopefully people can focus on

their health and getting better, and your book is part of that. our thanks to the virtual couch. steve hilton come everyone else. we are back here at noon eastern tomorrow. harris faulkner's coming up next with "america wins together." >> harris: the effects of the coronavirus pandemic could change her generation, including the 55 million children across america whose schools are closed. nearly half of them already told they will likely not be returning this school year, and grim headlines warn an historic number of students could fall behind as they try to adapt to remote learning. >> there's a lot of time where you're just on your own, and it really feels like that. >> harris: many parents also struggling to meet those challenges. suddenly transformed into default teachers, while juggling full-time jobs. >> i usually work from home, so now everybody is in my personal office