you want to reward companies for keeping employees and hiring more. that's what you want. >> martha: art laugher, good to see you. >> thank you. >> martha: >> martha: that is the story of wednesday april 22nd. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." a little overview, here's where we are as of 8:00 p.m. eastern, which is to say right now. in many places in this country, americans cannot go to the park with their children. they can't go to church, they can't have family dinners with our relatives. i can't go to the dentist, they can't get any replacement, they can't get married. tens of millions of them can't afford to do much of anything right now because they're unemployed. but they better not complain about it. if they voice their complaints online, they're liable to be censored by the tech companies. if they complain in public, they could be arrested. and a number of them have been. the windows of our political leaders are now unquestioned

law. dissent has been banned and that van is relentlessly enforced by the willing stooges intermediate will finally stop pretending they don't hate you, they definitely do. what country is this? well, it's a country in a lockdown. we are told we have no choice but to do this, to stop our lives completely. that's quarantines, they tell us again and again, are the way to save lives, but that's a lie. they don't know it's true, despite what they claim. if there is no scientific record to consult. it's never been done. we are currently living to the largest and most expensive experiment ever conducted in human history. we have spent trillions of dollars and crushed millions of people currently on the gas that is nationwide lockdown would save us from the coronavirus. has it worked? was the gas correct? let's look at the data. that's where we should always begin. that's what our leaders should be consulting daily. here it is. as of tonight, eight u.s. states

have not issued statewide shelter-in-place orders for the citizens. those states are arkansas, iowa, nebraska, north dakota, oklahoma, south dakota, utah and wyoming. the question is, have these states suffered for not locking down? and the answer is no. they haven't. at least not yet. currently all eight states are below the national average in coronavirus cases and deaths per capita. that's not to say they've been immune to the virus. they haven't been, but they definitely have not been hit harder than other states. now, as a matter of social science, those eight states are, it is true, on average, smaller and less dense, in some cases much less dense than the hardest hit states. but you can adjust the numbers. in a recent article, journalist and professor wilford riley did the math on this. he compared states that are locked down with states that are not locked down he then recorded statistical progressions for density, income levels, age and racial diversity. he put his formulas right up there and challenged people to

run the same numbers to those formulas or change them, come to a different conclusion if they could, no one has so far. here's what he found. he found that a state's lockdown strategy had virtually no effect on how severe its outbreak of the wuhan coronavirus was. are you surprised by this? maybe you shouldn't be. you can see the same trend at work in other countries. sweden most famously has never locked down. strong's there have never closed. if that country is still suffering from coronavirus, suffering more in fact than we are here in the u.s., but the country's epidemic appears to have peaked and without locking down, sweden -- and this is the key -- has fared far better than other european countries that did lockdown. that includes britain, italy, spain, belgium. how can this be true? it seems to contravene everything we hear all day long. lockdowns stop the virus. that's what they tell us almost always at high volume and with maximum outrage and self-righteousness. daring us to disagree.

but in fact there's not much evidence that it's true. consider the state of california, which is one of the first states to shut down. in a televised statement, los angeles mayor bragged that his city was under his absolute personal control and for that reason, the coronavirus would not spread there. anyone who disobeyed him would be hunted down. it's literally the phrase he used. watch this. >> this has really been marvelously embraced by 99.9% of people. we see it in the traffic data, we see it in the cell phone data. but we are going to hunt down that last .1% and stake got to get inside, you've got to cut it out and you've got to distance. >> tucker: we are going to hunt down people who are outside? they spent years calling donald trump a fascist. if only. you may have just heard, he brags that he was surveilling people's cars and tracking their cell phone use. but even that wasn't far enough for him.

garcetti also intentionally ruined city parks in los angeles just so that nobody could use them without his personal authorization. >> for instance that the skate park at venice beach and people were there, so we had to put sand into the skate park to make that unusable for now. when we come out of this we will clean that stand out. >> tucker: no potter dome of modern political leader in this country has ever talked like thd yet suddenly in cities across the nation so many of them are talking just like that. it's authoritarian. has this new authoritarianism produced results apart from a surge of power for the politicians exercising it? let's see. again to the numbers. under study by researchers at usc, the university of southern california, as do large people in los angeles county for large antibodies. they found that as of early april, up to 5.6% of the entir entire county had contracted the illness. that means after 320,000 adults in los angeles apparently had

already had it. at the time, the official number of infected people was about 8,000. city officials had no clue. they weren't even close. the virus had spread throughout a huge population right in the middle of the most restrictive quarantine in american history. what does that tell you? it tells you the lockdown didn't work. the question is why exactly did it fail, and we don't know, we can only guess. maybe people ignore the requirements of it. or maybe full enforcement of it was impossible despite the fact they were tracking people's cars and cell phones. or maybe forcing people to stay inside all day isn't actually a good way to contain a virus. whatever the reason that it failed, our leaders guessed wrong. they claimed that a lockdown would halt the spread of the virus. it did not do that. not even close. and they need to admit that. and then we need to change our approach based on the science. not on their whims, on the numbers. on what was learned. but we are not doing that.

public officials are instead by and large ignoring any evidence that indicts their policies or critically that might threaten their new and much loved power. they don't want to know what the facts are. indeed, some of them are even now, right now, promising even longer lockdowns. ones that extend baby to the end of the summer and even tougher punishments for those who disobey them. they are deploying drones to catch people who dare to go outside. americans. this is insanity. it is definitely -- and this cannot be stated emphatically enough -- it is definitely not science. this is not science. it has nothing to do with the public health. much less the broader public interest. this is instead what happens when mediocre people suddenly find themselves with godlike power. deciding who can go outside, one people can get married, which medical procedures are allowed to have. that's a feeling of omnipotence, and they like that feeling. it fills an empty place inside. i don't want to give it up. if they to last forever.

even as the country dies. but it can't last forever because it's not their country, it's ours. dr. john is a stanford medical professor and epidemiologist, nonpolitical person. he is here for the science, we are happy to have them now. thanks so much for coming on. >> thank you heavenly. >> tucker: what you think, looking at the data sets we now have, which are honestly not complete, but they are getting bigger, what conclusions can we draw about the effectiveness of these lockdowns? >> i think that we have to wait until the epidemic waves are mature because obviously we can have some late surprises. as we all know, there are many places that use varied oconee and measures and fewer places that have policies like sweden and some states in our country. it is very premature to make any conclusions. i think that we need to stick on gathering data, on gathering

objective data about the spread of the infection. about how lethal the infection is, about who are the people who are affected mostly, how we can protect the most vulnerable and how we can save lives. i think that it's not the time really to blame each other because you got it wrong, i got it wrong, he got it wrong. we should stay united and focus on the science. the science is telling us that this is a common infection. most people probably don't recognize that they're infected, they are asymptomatic. at the same time, it can be devastating infection. it can kill lots of people. >> tucker: let me -- i'm sorry to interrupt you now, but the me just back up a second. if it's too early to draw conclusions, then why are our leaders drawing hard conclusions and basing policies on them? they are saying these lockdowns have contained the virus. if that's true, why did it spread to potentially over 300,000 people in l.a. county in the middle of the lockdown?

that doesn't sound like containment to me. >> it's very likely that indeed the virus has spread very widely. you cannot exclude the possibility that some measures within the shelter-in-place order or lockdown may have had a benefit. i don't want us to be extreme in that regard. but as you realize these measures are not one thing, they are composite of multiple actions, multiple decisions, multiple things and some of these effects may be beneficial. other effects may be just know some of these measures may also have more harm in terms of the spread of the epidemic. i think that if we start collecting the right -- >> tucker: so what you're saying is we don't know. is that correct, are you saying -- what i hear you saying is we are not exactly sure what's going on, which i think is a good place to start. why aren't we hearing not more? >> i think that different opinions are being heard,

probably some are more dominant and i think that science needs to have different viewpoints and to have a contribution of opinions. science is not so much about opinion is about gathering reliable data and trying to see which of the theories and which of the hypotheses are more correct and which are less correct. i think that there's really a lot of exciting work happening at the moment that will give us some answers very soon and is already giving us answers. >> tucker: it certainly seems to be knocking down some claims. i don't think there's any mistaking that trend. doctor, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you for the kind invitation. >> tucker: of course. as of right now, new york mayor bill de blasio is ordering new yorkers to tattle on their neighbors to inform on them. just like countries during the cold war, but don't worry, the mayor says just like in the soviet union, at least to get parade later. >> we will have a ticker tape

parade down the canyon of heroes for health care workers and our first responders. >> tucker: that promise isn't doing a ton to reduce the sagging popularity. trace gallagher has the latest. on the parade. hey, trace. >> the mayor who encouraged new yorkers to go to restaurants in early march, as you say now counting the days to what he calls the "greatest of operates." a ticker tape tribute to health care workers but critics are skeptical about putting tens of thousands of people shoulder to shoulder in the very heart of the nation's coronavirus hot spot. quoting, in november 1918, san francisco celebrated the end of the spanish flu. the flu came back in january nearly doubling the death toll. if bill de blasio stages a parade in 2020, he will kill people. it also has not gone unnoticed, the same mayor who offered sanctuary to noncitizens who commit crimes has set up a 311 snitch hotline for citizens who failed to keep their distance. except the hotline is now a

hotbed of obscene pictures and texts, though there are some milder examples like this one, directed at de blasio. "i'll be sure to take a pick of you going into the gym. but the mayor will not be deterred. is not talking about teaming up with macy's, the company that furloughed most of its workforce, to put on a fireworks show. watch. >> we will celebrate the fourth of july in new york city this year. we will find a way to put on a show that will show people how much we love our country. >> to which one twitter response read "someone wrote a parody of a tone-deaf political dons, this would be two on the nose." tucker. >> tucker: trace gallagher with the very latest in new york city, great to see you tonight, thank you. >> thank you. >> tucker: well, two nights ago we were promised a temporary moratorium on immigration to protect american workers.

that's not what we got. how exactly did that happen? we look closely into this and got some answers, we will give them to you next. ♪

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even that that pet-camera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that? xfinity xfi can because it's... ...simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] ♪ >> tucker: at least 22 million americans have lost their jobs since our political leaders started instituting mass quarantines. on monday night, the president announced he would help them with a temporary moratorium on immigration in the united states. that was his plan. it turned out it was sincere. we know that because the show has learned about the president 's original draft executive order. the original one would have suspended several guest worker

programs, the ones that prevent qualified americans from getting jobs. that would have been a big help for a hurting country, here's why. every year, 180,000 new h1b visas are awarded and more than 200,000 of those are extended for a longer period. these are not for people picking grapes or lettuce. these are people making good wages and white-collar jobs. currently there are about 470,000 active beneficiaries of this program. almost half a million. all foreigners in good paying jobs that americans are qualified for and could have. suspending that program for a year would open up a massive number of jobs at a time when we desperately need them because we have so many unemployed more than ever. so was suspending tens of thousands of h2b visas for nonagricultural guest workers. they always tell you this is about was going to pick their crops. it has nothing to do with picking the crops. it was going to work -- unfortunately, something happened to that executor border

on the way to being signed by the president. the final version, signed just hours ago does not restrict any foreign workers at all. all of them are free to keep coming here and taking american jobs, including high-paying american jobs. so what executives the order do? well, according to the federation for american immigration reform, which provided us with an analysis of it, only 5-80,000 current green card applications may be affected by this. that's less than 10% of the 1 million people who get lawful permanent residents can in this country every year. so for most of you, this will be merely a temporary delay in handing of their applications. so how did this happen? it's a grave disappointment. who did this? how do we get from a sincere effort -- the president announced it, and he meant it, judging from his first order, an effort to help suffering american workers to what we have now, which is a hollow come almost entirely symbolic gesture? we talked to a lot of people about this in washington, a lot. here's the story.

apparently key white house aides were afraid of angering corporate leaders. for example, apple ceo tim cook. someone actually said that. what will tim cook say? officials from the department of labor and the council of economic advisors pushed for the vast guest worker exemption. they argued that the on employment benefits in the coronavirus stimulus bill were so generous that american citizens would refuse to go back to work because it was easier to just get a government check. and so we have to bring in more foreigners. in other words, welfare for you, real jobs for foreign nationals. chinese researchers just released up her luminary study that suggests the coronavirus may be mutating. it is that true, if it is true and it is mutating, what exactly does that mean? dr. marc siegel is approximate total contributor and he joins us tonight. doctor, this sounds ominous. >> i don't think it's ominous.

the study only looks at 11 impatiens dominic patients what they're looking at is that there is some changes to the virus that concerned them in terms of making it more verlyn, where he could make you sicker and they're trying to figure out whether that caused differences in different parts of the world. the thing is though, i want everyone out there to know that this type of virus, called an rna, single-stranded rna virus is changing all the time. it's always mutating and according to dr. fauci, who i spoke to last week, this one hasn't yet changed in a direction where it impacts how it makes people sick -- just as importantly, by the way, as we go to make a vaccine for the virus, we don't want to see it spin off different subtypes because that makes it harder to make a vaccine that will work on all subtypes in the same with the treatments. with been talking about treatments on this show. it's better and easier and more

effective if the virus itself remains stable. i think that the evidence is -- and again, i want to make everyone out there understand, slight changes, slight genetic variations are inevitable with the virus. it's not repairing itself. but what we're looking for is it spinning off different types and as far as we know, and as far as american scientists have been able to verify, tucker, that has not happened yet. but the study brings to mind the right thing. we need to be on the lookout for this. we need to be looking at the structure of the virus over the next few months to make sure it doesn't change significantly. will it affect how sick people get? will it affect how effective treatments are and most importantly, will it change the target for the vaccine? that's why we have different flu vaccines every year. here we haven't so far seen enough to make us concerned. want to see what happens with this study after its peer-reviewed and published. right now it's too early to say but it brings to mind a very good -- a very important issue. tucker. >> tucker: it certainly does.

dr. siegel, thank you for explaining that so well. good to see you tonight. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: some of the richest schools in america, some of which have larger endowments then gdp is of entire countries, some of these places, which look like palaces, getting millions of dollars in taxpayer bailouts because of the coronavirus lockdown. we will tell you who's getting the money and why next. ♪

>> tucker: well, when washington bailed out the finance world more than a decade ago after the most recent financial collapse, the government sent limits on ceo compensation and they did it for a reason. taxpayer bailouts should be used saving jobs, not making corporate executives richer than they already are. so it's striking by contrast to see the department of education, which began dishing out $14 billion in bailout funds for american universities this month is not setting similar limits on how much university presidents get to pay themselves. and they pay themselves more than you might think. a lot. columbia university, for example is getting $12.8 million in bailout money despite having an $11 billion endowment. the president of that school, person called lee bullinger makes more than $2 million a year. in other words, lee bullinger et cetera collect about one-sixth of the entire federal bailout. rensselaer polytechnic institute, schooley probably haven't heard of and probably for good reason is getting

$4.8 million bailout money. and amazingly, that's less then university president shirley ann jackson pays herself every. so perhaps secretary devos can deposit that money into her personal checking account, might as well. university of michigan, which is a public school with more than $12 billion in the bank still got a $25 million bailout. they plan to spend $8 million on the football coach this year. they're still going to lose to ohio state, which got $45 million in bailout money. that school pays its coaching staff $11 million. meanwhile, the university of pennsylvania, school for kids on the harvard wait-list received $9.9 million. the president of u penn makes nearly 3 million. it's about a third of the entire bailout. if paying amy at such a priority, maybe the school could find that money in their $14.7 billion endowment. we could go on and on and on, we

could cite a dozen examples, in fact, 100 examples. young people in this country are the poorest group in this country. but the schools that pretend to educate them are the richest institutions we have. they're getting a bailout the young people could only dream of. why? because universities are one of the most powerful political interest groups in the nation. and young people are not. and you're not. that's why the government is blowing billions giving them cash they don't need at the same time they are wondering how to pay your mortgage. harvard has announced it will be taking bailout funds. why? because they spent a week being shamed in public over it because they have a $40 billion endowment. but it shouldn't take shame for harvard to do the right thing. they should be decent enough to do it. that's a pipe dream, they are not even close to decent. but in the absence of their decency, we need better laws. not a single sent ever should be spent making rich universities

even richer. they do enough harm to this country. while congress spends billions of dollars sending it over to rich universities that are a net negative for america, millions of restaurants, which are definitely net positive, are about to collapse. owns nearly a dozen restaurants and, in florida, the tampa bay area, also -- frank joins us tonight. thanks so much for coming on. you run a much more comp look at that operation than most restaurant owners because you also provide the food for your restaurants. what's happened to your business since the lockdowns began? >> what's happened? well first off, i want to thank you for letting me be on your show tonight. >> tucker: of course. >> we went from going 100 miles an hour down to, you know, zero. and we had probably 10,000-pound

of boxed beef ready, aging it for our customers for the busiest time of the year. we had fishing boats and brought in all the fish. so we had to do something with all that product. and what we did was we own fresh markets in four of our restaurants and it's been incredible, the response we've gotten from our community. >> tucker: how many employees do you have and what happened to them? speak of the, again, we furloughed them and now we have them working back and some of them are still -- some of them took unemployment, because as you very well know, the unemployment, i've got dishwashers, i've got servers that are making $300, there getting 600 hours from the federal government. undergoing for the unemployment. >> tucker: so what does that mean for you?

so you've got employees who are making more not working then they would making working for you, what does that mean for your business going forward? >> well, when we are ready to get opened up, when they say, hey, it's time to open up, will be able to call them and they'll be off that unemployment and the be for us. >> tucker: do you think you're going to lose any of the restaurants? do think the business is going to make it? >> i think we might -- i definitely think the business is going to make it. we might have to, you know, repurpose a couple of them, change things up. right now we are in the midst of remodeling six of them, making them a lot more functional for what we think is in the future. we are taking booths out, taking carpet out, putting in, you know, new flooring, new booths, making -- limiting our -- number of people per square footage. i mean, you know, this whole

restaurant -- we have big restaurants and, you know, they're saying we are going to fail, but we are not going to fail. we are not going to give up. we are going to fight. we are going to listen to the professionals in the business and we are going to do whatever it takes and our community is very supportive of us. and by the way, we live in probably one of the best tourist areas in america right now. we are a little bit west of tampa, which tampa has a great airport, with the airlines lowering their prices the way they are, i think people are going to be tired of being stuck in their homes and they're going to do a lot of stay-cations in florida. i think our business is going to come back good. it's not going to be as strong as it was but it will take time. >> tucker: i worked in a restaurant once and i know that it's a volume business. you try to turn the tables over, it's going to be tougher with

the mandates to have fewer people in the restaurant. >> yes. it definitely will, but we already realized that we were never in the to go, curbside or dockside -- we have water for a restaurant so we have dockside. and we weren't in of the delivery business. we've gone out and bought five vehicles as of recent, okay? and we are getting it in the delivery business. basically we're going to use our own delivery, in-house, based our delivery. and then that's one thing, but right now we are running -- some of our restaurants, we are running at 25% on the curbside. so realistically, this curbside take-out, online ordering, we would have never even looked at that before and now we are all over it. >> tucker: well, good. we are certainly rooting for you. thanks for joining us tonight. >> well, thank you.

>> tucker: china is set to equip the united states in economic power. how exactly did that happen? with they didn't do it by themselves, as barack obama might have said. they had a lot of help, from american companies. among them is mckinsey. how did they do it? we will discuss it next with senator marco rubio. ♪ at papa john's, we want you to know that from our 450-degree oven, to box, to you,

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♪ >> tucker: governor andrew cuomo has decided he does not trust the trump administration to come up with a safe or sensible plan to reopen the economy of new york and that's of course his call, he's the governor. but cuomo isn't turning to his own health officials or his own economic advisors for counsel. instead he's hired a firm called mckinsey and company to devise the plan forward. what is mckinsey -- what is

mckinsey and company? if you don't know the answer you're probably not in private -- chelsea clinton once worked at mckinsey, sorted -- pete buttigieg joined mckinsey after graduating harvard and spending a year as a rhodes scholar. he could have worked anywhere with that resume but he chose mckinsey. no doubt many of his harvard classmates and beat him. why? is more than any other company in america, mckinsey and company serves as a training ground for the leaders of our professional class, like the alumni it produces, mckinsey makes nothing. the only thing it sells is advice, talking. usually at a very high place. the people who work there are called consultants. now why is all of this relevant now in the middle of a pandemic that came from china? well because if you're wondering why so many of our institutions in american life have been so utterly corrupted and undermined by the government of china, something that's been revealed in stark relief recently, kinsey and company is a big part of the reason. for close to 30 years,

mckinsey has played a leading role in encouraging american companies to ship their factories, their jobs, their expertise all overseas to china. it seems like a normal practice now, but for most of the 20th century it was not. localism was not considered a business model. general motors for example designed its cars in america. it assembled them at american factories using american parts and in the end mostly sold those cars in america. this was pretty much the rule across american industry. american companies got rich doing it and america got a lot stronger in the process. the middle class, which worked in those factories, was vibrant and self-sufficient. the nation gained technological and industrial expertise as well as security. no foreign country could threaten to cut off our ply to supply of medicine or machine tools, we made them ourselves. mckinsey took a look at this arrangement and decided it was irrational. producing everything at home reduced short-term profits and short-term profits were mckinsey's goal. so mckinsey began working to change the system. they called it unbundling.

u.s. companies were supposed to focus on their "core competencies." remember that phrase? the rest of what they did could be contracted out to other countries which offer lower prices. to justify doing all of this, mckinsey produced what it called research to show that america could move jobs and factories overseas without any downside at all. everybody would get richer and happier in the deal. turned out to be one of the biggest lies ever told. today china is overtaking us economically and soon perhaps militarily. we know longer make a huge list of critical goods we need to survive including antibiotics. companies we think of as american no longer are american. if they're chinese. all the factories and workers who build the iphone, for example, are in asia. apple supplied the brand logo. for america this has been a disaster but for mckinsey, just the opposite. it mckinsey is thriving.

as the american economy faded, they mckinsey simply attached itself to the next superpower. how close to the company is the chinese government and vice versa? consider this:from 2009 to 2018r was a man called dominic barton. at the same time, he was managing mckinsey, barton also served on the advisory board of the china development bank. the china development bank is a massive communist party-controlled enterprise that finance is the one belt one road initiative. you may have heard of that, it's china's bid to dominate international commerce by massive infrastructure projects. barton is now canada's ambassador to china. mckinsey is not embarrassed about any of this. just the opposite. in fact in its current marketing materials the company breaks the 30% of its chinese clients are state owned enterprises. another words, these companies are directly operated and controlled by the communist party of china. not surprisingly, given that, management and mckinsey are

eager to fawn over the chinese government. one of the most repressive regimes in the world. in an interview with chinese new service, peter wofford came off like a smitten teenager all aflutter. "what i discovered in china was that people were happy. they were proud. they were energized. the government officials i met genuinely wanted to do the right thing for the people. " that is how one of america's foremost business leaders described the government that bans christianity, puts ethnic minorities in concentration camps, up to a million, crushes dissent worldwide, including your right to speak, harvest organs from dissidents it murders and lies about pandemics that have caused a worldwide depression and hundreds of thousands of deaths. that's the government peter walker is talking about, but according to peter walker of mckinsey, this is the government that just genuinely wants to do the right thing for

the people. feel nauseous yet? you want to take a much closer look at mckinsey and company. all the harvard kids want to go there. senator marco rubio represents the state of florida, we are happy to have them on tonight. senator, thanks for coming on. you really get the sense the deeper you go in this that american business leaders -- not all of them of course, there are many exceptions, but some critical business leaders, key business leaders, really kind of sympathize with the chinese way to a greater extent than they sympathize with america. >> would make the mistake of making some of these are american companies because their headquarters are here in the name of the company is an english name. these are not american companies, they're located in the united states will benefit from the freedom this country provides and all other sorts of things that help them but ultimately from that standpoint, companies like this have no allegiance to the united states of america and a view china as an opportunity to make money. there are two religions out there when it comes to this. one is a group of people that think anybody -- everybody is

right except america, everybody is better than we are. we have an element of that in our politics and the other is a group that is in love with the amount of money that can be made in profit that can be made and they convince themselves that they are dealing with a noble group of people over there or they can lie about it because of the profitability of being involved in the chinese government. >> tucker: this has had horrible effects on the american economy and you wonder if going forward now that i think most people understand what the chinese are really about, this can continue. can it continue, do you think? >> it's can't continue. i'm not glad that it took a virus to make us aware of it but i'm glad that more people are becoming aware of the reality that we have given up our nations industrial [inaudible] on the notion that somehow we can just be a country that invents things and does have technology in high-tech things and now we are learning what you can't make some things that are really important to you. thank god that we still have the capacity in this country to make cars and make other things so

that they could repurpose it to make ventilators, but in five years are not even sure that we would have been able to do that with the direction we were going. >> tucker: do you think -- and this is a broad question, we just have 30 seconds -- but you do you think your colleagues in the u.s. congress are concerned enough about this question to buckle down and try and come up with some answers to it, to stop this from happening? >> it's hope so. i hope this will help reframe the entire debate moving forwa forward. i can imagine something like this would not open our eyes once and for all. >> tucker: yeah, i sure hope you're right. senator, thank you very much. >> thank you. speeone's of whole country is hurting, badly, from this pandemic and the lockdown it inspired, so what are they talking about on tv? themselves. their favorite topic. more of that next. plus, some experts predict the second wave of infections from this virus next fall.

well that happen, can we prepare for it to avoid unnecessary deaths? we will tell you after the break. ♪

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♪ >> tucker: it seems like eternity, but in fact, and we are keeping track, it's been barely two days since governor andrew cuomo cnn anchor brother faked his resurrection from coronavirus containment in a now legendary video. >> already hit -- all here the

official surrendering from the basement. cleared by cdc. a little sweaty, just worked out. this is what i've been dreaming of. >> tucker: a little sweaty, just worked out. it happens. immediately after the starter news on cnn, the younger one on television talked about how crucial it is for everyone to stay inside, everyone. it's a moral question, he said. a matter of our "collective conscience." >> the only thing that has checked this contagion is our collective conscience to stay home. together as ever as one. we know that is our true power. the question is, when will it really be put to this problem? >> tucker: it's a matter of conscience. that's chris cuomo's position. everyone at cnn agrees. together as ever as one. that's why we should keep her resting parents were playing with their children outside. that's why it's okay to hope

that people protesting against lockdowns get sick and die. because it's a matter of conscience. on the other hand, that doesn't mean that tv people want to follow those rules or have to follow those rules. chris cuomo, for example, left his house during the fake quarantine. at one point he traveled to a different town when he wasn't working out. a little sweaty, it just worked out, it happens. but chris worked out and got sweaty because that's what chris likes to do. he'd like to show you. >> sorry, i've been really busy but i have been working out. i'm kidding. >> getting a little preshow pum. >> what is it's a? >> cuomo rhyme time. let's work it out, little bit. news time. >> you've also met fred flintstone dumbbell.

>> for a real man. >> tucker: so yeah, chris cuomo ignored the same quarantine he's forcing other people. yeah, he went outside. that he works out in sweats a lot. got something to say about that? what are you going do about it? come on, tough guy, what are you going to do? look at these guns. well, coronavirus appears to have peaked in the united states for now. we hope in any case, that's what the numbers suggest but some experts think it could come roaring back next fall, especially in combination with the annual flu season, so what steps, if any, can you take now to prepare and avoid a rerun of the past month? our own dr. nicole is author of the new book, "make america healthy again," and she joins us tonight. thanks so much for joining on. we are all living under the assumption that this could happen. what can we do to prepare for it? >> i think some of dr. redford, the head of the cdc's comments

were misconstrued when he did say we wanted to be cautious about this upcoming flu season. some people like to turn it into a panic, but what he was actually talking about is we deal with cold and flu season every year and i've been saying for the last couple of months that i do believe that next season is actually just going to be cold, flu, and corona season. and it's not because the coronavirus is continuing to mutate or it's going to get much worse, but the truth is it's because we are going back into cold and flu season and right now if at about 400-700,000 people being hospitalized with the flu just this season alone and we've had over 100,000 people hospitalized with covid-19. so as we enter the next flu season, we want to make sure that we have enough hospital beds and we have enough hair that were able to care for the covid-19 patients again, because the virus is likely not going to be stamped out. the truth is it's probably going to be circulating again during the next flu season, so what can we do to prepare for it? there are actually some really easy steps and they are really -- we can all just think

about it for a second, but one is for people who are open for vaccinations, getting your flu vaccination, getting your pneumonia vaccine, that will actually reduce not only your risk of contracting flu and pneumonia, but those around you. you're protecting those around you. so not only doing that, we want to increase our ppe and a ventilator stockpile. consider having smaller gatherings around the holiday season. my biggest concern is, holiday season when everyone starts to get together. again, we are going to see viruses, cold virus, flu viruses and potentially that causing covid-19 again. we don't want to get to the place we are at right now, we don't want to get to where we have to shut everything down but i truly think that americans are actually taking notice and all of a sudden the concept of hand hygiene and not touching her face has actually become a reality and people are a lot more aware of how they can reduce their risk of transmitting viruses. the problem with this novel coronavirus is that it's just so contagious, it's much more contagious than the flu and the common cold, so we just have to be a bit more careful going into

this next cold and flu season. >> tucker: sounds like good advice. dr. thank you so much for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> thanks. >> tucker: it is a lot going on, wish we could go on forever but it's been an hour. we are happy to have you with us. sean hannity takes over right >> sean: a great show, i've been reading dr. safire's new book, it's great and you can learn a lot. welcome to "hannity," many americans are desperately looking for ways to rebuild their lives. they want to get back to their jobs and reopen businesses of course in a state of academic and safe and responsible way. we can't forget, nonstop around the clock, they have been keeping this country going. there has been no shutdown of american farmers or those packers or our great truckers or the manufacturers of medical equipment or those that have been stalking grocery stores here at