small businesses around the country who continue to struggle as the shutdown continues. that debate happening on the floor, though it's happening later on. nice to be with you all morning this morning, ed. we'll see you tomorrow morning. another day. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: georgia governor brian kemp is moving forward with plans to reopen some businesses tomorrow. not everybody is on board with that. atlanta's mayor, for a fact, is pushing back hard. and this, from the president who said last evening he disagree strongly with the decision, calling it "too soon," but think he would leave it up to the governor. in other states, a growing list of local leaders pushing to reopen their economies, like it las vegas mayor carolyn goodman saying that they should be the ones to decide how to handle the crisis and maintain social distancing. >> i would love everything open. i think we've had viruses for years that have been here. right now we are in a crisis,

healthwise. so, for a restaurant to be open, or a small boutique to be open, they've better figure it out. that's their job. that's not the mayor's job. >> harris: you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. katie pavlich, "downhole" editor and fox news contributor. marie harf, executive director of serve america pac and fox news contributor, as well. in the center block, dr. marty makary, physician and professor at johns hopkins university and fox news medical contributor. he, as we say, is "outnumbered." great to see all of you today. there is a lot of heated discussion going on across the country, and, katie, i'm going to sit with you about this whole process of "open, don't open?" >> katie: well, we all know that one-size-fits-all policies are not going to work for everybody. that is why the white house has deferred to the states with the three-phase program. they don't believe georgia is

meeting the mark. i found what the governor said about giving business owners the benefit of the doubt when it comes to managing this reopening interesting. i think businesses have an incentive to do this as safely as possible. they also know there's a liability to reopening, and if people get sick in their establishments. it's an interesting experiment and whether the government's right to allow them to open, and whether they can handle it. i would say based on the way the american people have responded overwhelmingly to the federal guidelines about social distancing over the past 30 plus days, that they are capable of making those decisions and making sure that their environment that they are responsible for is safe. now, president trump rebuking the governor yesterday was quite something, and there's always a debate of whether the president should assert more authority to control what the states are doing. whether he has the power to do

that, whether he should that. >> harris: let me step in for a second. when you say it was quite something, i'm curious to know exactly what that means. part of what we've been watching, the president of the united states put in some guidelines. that date has not come up yet, april 30th. he had extended that. when you say "quite something," what do you mean? >> katie: well, he's a republican governor, first of all. what the president has said, that he wants to leave it up to the states and to the governors about how they operate, given the guidelines of the federal government has given them, and here you have a governor making his own decisions about what his people and his state, what local business leaders are telling him, talking to him about, reassuring him that they can open on their own timeline in a safe and effective way, it shows, again, this tough decision the federal government versus the states that we've been saying. there's other things georgia can

do to work with states around them to stop the spread. for example, new jersey, new york, and connecticut have been working together in response to this and shutting down borders at all of that. texas at one point was not allowing people from louisiana to come into their state. georgia can work with other governors around them about their concerns of georgia opening. if it doesn't go as well as they wanted to, or it goes poorly, having that issue addressed. >> harris: marie harf, i'm going to ask you to step in on this. i'm curious, just from a political perspective. katie pointed out this is a republican president, republican governor. i don't know that all that matters is much, or am i wrong about this? we keep asking everybody, don't look at the politics. but katie has a point. you tend to see people sort of equally yoked politically, but this is a different type of an issue. >> marie: it is. brian kemp is also one of president trump's two greatest supporters it's not a republican governor like mike dewine or

charlie baker. those are republican governors who tussled a bit with the trump administration. i think this is an example, harris, of why president trump shouldn't weigh in on these decisions. he's not a medical expert, it's up to the states, as katie mentioned. he gave indications in the last week that he wanted states to reopen. he tweeted that certain states should be liberated. many people saw that as they should move to reopen. he has talked of the podium repeatedly about reopening. so you can't fault brian kemp thinking donald trump wanted him to reopen. yesterday it was just such a curveball. it was extraordinary to see donald trump go after or criticize one of his biggest supporters. that's why the president shouldn't be part of this conversation. we need to listen to the experts. a large majority of americans, by every poll that is done, still want to take this very slowly. people are going to vote with their feet. you've seen stories, for example, this morning about how movie theaters in some places may be allowed to reopen. but film companies are going to be releasing their new releases,

because they don't think people will feel comfortable coming, even if they're open. so, as katie mentioned and said, a very long process. one size does not fit all. i think this is a place where i would err on the side of caution. dr. fauci has been clear, in fall we might see another resurgence, another spike. >> harris: i'm going to pause you right there. we have a little bit from the white house task force member, dr. anthony fauci. let's watch that together. >> i plead with the american public, with the governors, with the mayors. although i know one has to leapfrog over things, don't do that. do it in a measured way. this is a successful formula. >> harris: dr. makary, i come to you on your response to this. we were hearing from the cdc director yesterday and the day before about the flu pandemic. influenza always comes back

seasonally, as well. if you have too much of a side by side in the fall, that puts us in that almost we just left, watching the curve unflattering, if you will, if you can even put that terminology on it. what do you think about what dr. fauci just said? >> dr. makary: i think, harris, there is broad consensus in the medical community right now about the national guidelines. we are all behind it. it's pretty rare to have that level consensus. it's not just the letter of the law, it's the spirit of the law. when you have a group saying, "we are going to be disobedient to these national guidelines," that's concerning. at the same time, harris, this is not a major violation. ththis is a parking ticket. what they're talking about is not our major issue right now. tattoo parlors are not our major issue. nail salons are not the major issue right now. the major issues are travel and mass gatherings. i haven't heard either of those leaders in vegas or in georgia

say they are going to open the doors for those things. >> harris: wow, that's really interesting, the way you put that in terms of a ticket rather than a greater infringement of these guidelines. i guess one of the things that has me curious is these were the things we all agreed upon got us to this better place right now. like, we were going down a really bad place, and we still have people perishing. we still have people becoming ill from coronavirus. but we are supposedly getting better along the way with those numbers of cases in both those lanes. i want to put this up. a new associated press poll shows 80% of respondents said they are either somewhat or strongly in favor of at-home orders. melissa, i come to you on this. why do you think this is, given the fact that when we look across the country new states come online each day with their protests? i want to point out, relatively small crowds of people in those areas thus far.

>> melissa: well, i don't know that i trust any polling, ever since the last election i've been very skeptical of any numbers that come out of any polling. i don't really know it to make of that, or how they choose who they were going to call. i think it's interesting that democrats can find a reason to criticize the president no matter what. he is being more cautious than a republican governor, and still democrats can find fault with that and say, "well, he should just stay out of it." when, here he's being more cautious, and you constantly criticized him for not being cautious enough. i think that's just amusing, and undermines their opinion on anything when you know they open their mouth and will say the president is wrong. i think these decisions should be made on the most local level possible. the same way i want to decide what is safe for my family and my children, based on the guidelines and the information i've been given and studied. i do want local officials, even

mayors, to be deciding if their town is ready to open up or not. the problem is the incentive is different. for governors, they are looking at paying on appointment claims. we will talk about the desperate unemployment situation coming up later in the show. but governors have an incentive to open things up, because they are looking at having to fill that enormous budget gap. for mayors, they are the ones more on the ground trying to deal with the hospitals. and police, what's going on in the street. they have a natural incentive to train key people in their house. so that's another problem, you look from an economic motivation point of view. even just an organizational point of view. everyone has a different incentive here, but i love the idea that businesses have the incentive to open up as safely as possible in order to get customers back in, but it's not safe -- >> harris: talking about that las vegas mayor. >> melissa: exactly. i think that's brilliant analysis that came at the beginning from katie, because

there incentive is very well balanced. so that makes sense to me. >> harris: yeah. boy, i tell you, we could go around and around about this. you do have different political parties between some mayors in some governors. that can come in to play. as we've all been saying, what has worked to get us thus far? for some people, it's just too unsettling to think of him doing it all too quickly. we will move on. we'll get back to it, as well. the house is gearing up to vote this afternoon on a phase 3.5 coronavirus bill. lawmakers are already butting heads over future stimulus measures, but we are on this one right now. stay focused! oh, boy. the federal pandemic spending already in the trillions of dollars. should congress hit the brakes at this point? the debate you don't want to miss, coming up. >> we are also in the greatest public and economic crisis of our lifetime. we have spent a record amount as a government in order to get through the second world war,

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>> melissa: the house gearing up to vote today on the newly $500 billion phase 3.5 stimulus package. it would provide more money to small businesses via the paycheck protection program, as well as additional funding for hospitals and coronavirus testing efforts. this, as new jobless numbers out today show some 4.4 million americans filed for an employment benefit last week. that raises the total over the past five weeks to a whopping 26.5 million people. it's just astounding. i mean, katie, that number is so

staggering. especially when you compare it to -- we have here, over the past ten years, 22.8 million jobs were created. 26.5 million have been lost. look at that comparative number. we have lost more than have been created in the past decade. you hope that a lot of that isn't permanent, that people who are applying for an employment, when their jobs reopen, that they will get hired back in their jobs. a lot of them won't be. what are your thoughts on this, katie? >> katie: looking at that number in red, it certainly shows there's going to be a large hole for businesses to climb out of. that people can get their job back, that is of small businesses and businesses that employ them are still around. the fact is that this legislation could have been done three weeks ago on the paycheck protection program, on helping businesses to continue to pay employees, to keep them around. nancy pelosi in the senate

blocked it at the beginning of april. they play right along to her game of trying to get some kind of leverage. a week later she was in front of her $25,000 refrigerators talking about her ice cream and chocolate she's enjoying. if you look at the video coming out of houston, people in their cars going through food lines because they been laid off. it's a really stark contract. this is something they didn't have to wait for weeks. here we are now, it seems like they're going to pass it. but democrats try to insert all kinds of agenda items into a relief package, as the numbers continue to bleed. this isn't going to stop. we will probably hit 30 million by the next two weeks. >> melissa: marie, she brings up the point about slow-walking this. even if you look at the things that were added that make sense, like adding more money for hospitals, it still meant that a lot of businesses in the meantime went out of business. because they didn't get the funding they needed.

why not do that in the next bill? why not say, "yes, we will pass more money the same way we did with the first amount," and immediately talk about the next thing we need to do? hospitals, and whatever else. i mean, how do you explain that hold up to the people who miss the money and went out of business? >> marie: we need money right now for hospitals, many of which are in danger of going out of business for a number of different reasons. also for testing. that money can't wait, either. those are things democrats wanted in the bill, they've gotten in the bill, and they need to be in the bill. republicans didn't want them in the bill. that's part of the reason we are where we are. also, republicans in the house forcing a nonunanimous consent vote. in other words, forcing everybody to come back to washington, all the members of the house to travel back to washington to vote in person. that also adds on sometime. both sides here were negotiating, trying to get things they wanted in the bill, and congress is moving, quite

frankly, more than they normally move, which isn't a high bar. that's fair. they are moving quickly to get relief to the places that need it right away. i know republicans are making fun of nancy pelosi and her refrigerator and freezer, and everything she did in that video. i just want to point out is my point of pride here. that ice cream in her freezer started out as a small business in my hometown of columbus, ohio. for all these conservatives who say they love small business and american entrepreneurship, stop making fun of the companies that nancy pelosi buys things from. it just personally really bothers me that that is what we focus on right now. it's just small ball. >> melissa: well, and it's a little bit of a disingenuous argument to compare the hospital going out of business, because i don't think there were many hospitals filled with patients who are going to close their doors this weekend say, "we ran out of money, everyone get out, we've close the hospital," the way businesses went out of business when they didn't get the money. in the meantime, as ho house lawmakers prepare for the vote

this afternoon, they are already teeing off another coronavirus release package with a focus on aid to state and local governments. several states have pleaded for congress to provide hundreds of billions of dollars in aid to make sure for lost revenue, but some states like new york have budget deficits before this pandemic started. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says those states should file for bankruptcy rather than seek an emergency federal bailout. >> we are not interested in revenue replacement for state governments. we are interested in trying to help them with anything related to the coronavirus. we are not interested in solving their pension problems or all these other things that they would like for us to finance. >> melissa: so, harris, when governor cuomo made the argument, that's exactly what he said. "we've lost so much revenue, because of the coronavirus." of course, our state was already $600 billion in the hole because taxes have gone up so much in new york that people have left

and gone to florida. so we already knew new york was headed towards bankruptcy and in big trouble before this even started. but it is true, we haven't heard a lot of costs as a lot of the coronavirus, and they're looking for legitimate help. how do you parse that? >> harris: you know, i put this back in your lane, melissa, from the fox business side of the point of view. because what i'm trying to understand is, if places were already on the brink, if their books were already in the red and they were in trouble, would our taxpayer dollars then be covering that backlog of debt? or are we going forward to help them during a pandemic? if it's the latter, i don't think anybody would ever even flinch. we are in a pandemic, you got to do what you've got to do. if it's the former, maybe that is worth discussion. i'm just wondering, do you talk about it now? do you just pay for what we need right this second and deal with

the backlog later? what do you think? >> melissa: well, i mean, i don't know. i guess that would determine if you say to governor cuomo, "well, you're asking for 15," that's the number of floating around. he was 6 in the hole before this. do you give him 9 and say that is pandemic and the 6 you made ahead of time? i don't know how you possibly parse that. i would ask dr. makary, as well, a lot of this is for medical expenses. they do need to cover things, costs that have been incurred. part of it, though, the governor says medicaid costs have gone through the roof here in new york. that's part of what caused the buzz it might budget deficit before coronavirus came along. how do you separate that out, do you think? how does that point the pandemic? >> dr. makary: there's not

enough money in the treasury to bailout every local government, every hospital, and every business in america. i do agree with you that we've got to help hospitals but, you know what? lets make sure it goes the hospitals that need it most, not the hospital sitting on 25 billion-dollar endowments, massive cash reserves. our price gouging patients and even sue them and they can't afford to pay. we can put conditions on some of this funding. some rural hospitals are on the brink of closure, and others have cash reserves. whatever happened to savings? have we forgotten in america that it's good for local governments, state governments, to have some savings for businesses to have cash reserves? unfortunately we can't look under the hood and decide who deserves and does not deserve the money based on past behavior. but we can say what services are most urgent right now. i do think that's going to be certain hospitals, certain workers, and certain local governments. >> melissa: yeah, you are so

right. we call it the rainy day fund, families are supposed to have it, try to have it, have some savings. governments, local and state, are supposed to have day funds. "we ran out, we are through our rainy day fund." interesting. anyway, it looks like something straight out of the russian disinformation playbook. how china may have sown panic in the u.s. in the early stages of the pandemic. would it still may be doing and whether the u.s. should respond. ♪ look, this isn't my first rodeo...

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country. now, with many americans out of work amid stay-at-home orders, chinese agents are reportedly still using social media to stir public dissent against the trump administration handling of the crisis. marie harf, this is not helpful. could be dangerous, even. that's what some critics of it are saying. where do you put this in terms of what we are dealing where with right now in the pandemic? >> marie: it's very dangerous, harris. we need to pay more attention. that "new york times" story outline significant chinese government activity to cause divisions, political divisions, in our country by doing the things you just mentioned. it also talked about russia, and possibly other countries trying to do the same thing. i'm glad our intelligence community is very focused on this. i think it will only increase, this activity will only increase leading up to our presidential election. we should remind people out there, be skeptical of what you see on facebook, on twitter.

fact-check things, go to the experts, go to the cdc. listen to the medical professionals. unfortunately, i think it's going to keep ramping up because we are also in the middle of an election cycle, not just a pandemic. it's this terrible sort of nasty online stew that has the potential to be very dangerous. >> harris: let me slide in the politics along behind you, since you've been at that door. joe biden is one who's been criticized for maybe not exactly estimating but china is and what china could do. how does he come out looking after we have found out some pretty awful things about china? having just to do with the pandemic. they are communists, i'm sure we could find other things. but right now, with the coronavirus pandemic, we know they weren't transparent, openly honest with us from the beginning of what was going on. the deaths in their country, so on and so forth. now we see that some in their country would really like to harm us via communication. what do you say about some of

the things that your candidate has said and should do going forward? >> marie: it's going to be a fascinating debate as part of his election. he saw joe biden released and i ad hitting president trump exactly on this issue, on china. he said "trump said the chinese are doing every thing perfectly, they have it under control, they're doing a good job." up until march. joe biden is trying to take that issue and say, "president trump may be tough on china now. for months he wasn't, and it slowed a response here in the united states." that's the argument he's already making. >> harris: that doesn't answer my question about joe biden. let me ask katie pavlich my question about joe biden. katie, you were listening to marie just then. what's on the flip side of that? >> katie: well, the flip side is that joe biden is going to have a very hard time defending his family's longtime ties to china. he's going to have a hard time defending why he wanted to keep the border with china open as they were lying on spreading

this disease all around the world. the bottom line is that china isn't sorry. this new propaganda campaign they continue to push out, not just through back channels were twitter trolls, but from their top spokespeople both in china and at postings around the world, they don't care that they are the ones who did this to the world. they have no intention of apologizing for it. i think we should be very skeptical of the same people who are repeating the things that china is saying, and proliferating to the country. whether it's democratic senator chris murphy, whether it's members of the media, or the world health organization. the bottom line here, moving forward, is going to be, yes, president trump was talking about china in january, february, and march. you have to keep in mind that this is at the same time he knew china was making our pharmaceuticals and had all the ppe and was hoarding it. diplomatically you could argue that publicly he was saying these things about tended to try and get as many supplies as

possible out of that country, knowing they could use that power and hold all of that, because they knew they were hoarding it. on the surface, that's what he was saying. behind-the-scenes, there's a lot more going on to what china had the ability to do. and the leverage they had over the united states at that point. >> harris: i read the term that we used, katie, that they were "vacuuming up" the personal protective equipment, all around the world, china was. i want to get in the medical perspective, here. let's look at the current numbers of covid cases and deaths reported by china. we should point out that the communist country reported no additional deaths for an eighth straight day yesterday, and just ten new cases. dr. makary, in every sense we hope the world is having a flattening curve. when i asked this question, it isn't because we wouldn't be joyful that things are better. we feel blessed that they are. but do you trust what we see, and what china is reporting, to

show us how best to handle this pandemic? do you trust the numbers? >> dr. makary: harris, earlier in this pandemic i called doctors in the wuhan province of china to ask them what they were seeing. they said, "we are not even counting the body bags, there are so many." we knew the numbers were not adding up. yet, today, we see media reporting that the u.s. has now surpassed china. we have more deaths than any country in the world. we know those numbers are not accurate. if you look at what's happening in the northern area, around the border with russia, they are going into more stricter lockdowns because they have an outbreak there. i don't believe any of the numbers, but i do believe the doctors in china that i've talked to. >> harris: oh, interesting. the doctors that you are talking to, what are they saying that is working for them right now? we did see some of the economy go back to work. from reports from them, it looked like things were popping again.

are they doing the types of things to keep that quelled? what are you watching for, what are they telling you? >> dr. makary: the good news is, in the wuhan area, they are relatively active now. they are using a lot of precautions, a lot of the citizens are very scared, but they are getting there. there wearing masks, as they have the regular flu seasons for years. they are using a lot of hygiene. >> harris: that's a good point. >> dr. makary: we are seeing a lot of good stuff. that's how grocery stores have been functioning, using smart hygiene and masks and basic precautions. that might be the road up to getting businesses back on tra track. >> harris: you sidestepped, just like some poo on the road, and you talk directly about medical visuals. we are grateful for you doing that so we can get some good facts. thank you, dr. makary. contact tracing. health experts say it can help control the spread of the virus, and now more and more hard-hit states are ramping up their efforts where that's happening.

how exactly would work, next. >> we believe we have the capacity to build an army of tracers, beginning with a goal of 10,000. ♪ here's big news for veteran homeowners. with mortgage rates at record lows, one call to newday can save you $2000 a year. it's that simple. with their va streamline refi, there's no income verification or home appraisal. and this refi costs you absolutely nothing out of pocket. it's the quickest and easiest refi newday has ever offered. one call can save you $2000.

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may 31st. and we'll continue making real time decisions to best serve you - our customers. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. >> we expect roughly 1,500 workers focused solely on contact tracing by the second week of may. this workforce will be a rapid response team. somewhat like a fire brigade. >> melissa: washington's governor saying the state will be deploying workers to reach out to coronavirus patients and find out who they may have been in contact with, and to warn them to self-quarantine. california is also planning to train and deploy thousands of so-called contact tracers, up to 10,000, according to governor gavin newsom. and connecticut's governor says his state is looking into joining new york and new jersey

and a tri-state's contact tracing program. now, katie, i want to read exactly what these people are doing. it gave me a little pause. they said these tracers will interview people, identify those with him they've come into contact, and convince those people to self-quarantine. what are they doing to convince them to self-quarantine, and what happens if you don't? i don't know, obviously want to tracer everyone's going to be. i understand the health importance of some of this. something makes me feel a little big brother about this. what are your thoughts? >> katie: right, a lot of these workers, some of them are going to be new and there will be new programs and lamented. i'm wondering if these semi tournament semipermanent programs will be turned into longer programs, and i think we've proven as a country, no matter what state they are in, if you believe

you've been exposed to coronavirus, and you voluntary self isolated, i think the trace and can be. but i think not allowing people to opt in voluntarily to these tracing programs presents a whole set of issues when it comes to laws about your health record, and whether the government has the right to enforce you to stay home for two weeks. there's a lot of questions about the civil liberties aspect of this, and whether semipermanent government programs will eventually be permanent and cost lots of money. >> melissa: right. speaking of the money it costs, the national association of state and territorial health organizations estimates our public health workforce, if it were 100,000 contrac 100,000 co, that price would be $3.6 billion. so it's a lot of money, but, dr. makary, we have a lot of people out of work who could be hired, i guess, to be contact

tracers. so there's aspects of it. folks -- i believe it was bill gates, writing an op-ed, talking about how we can do this with anonymous phone technology that might protect your privacy more than having humans do it. how important is it? do you think it should be an opt in system, as you try and weigh the idea of privacy versus public health? you being sick impacts someone else and their health. >> dr. makary: well, information is powerful. people want information. i'm actually in a minority group that does not think testing is going to be our panacea that will have a significant impact on the current wave. but we do get a major do over. come this summer, late summer, early fall, we may have a chance to use contact tracing with testing in the way that it's designed. epidemic management 101. that is an opportunity. so we get a major redo, and we get a chance to do this right with the proper testing.

that's getting set up now. infrastructure, and the data that tells us the high risk people are really the ones that we've got to focus on. it's hard for this virus to hurt somebody young and healthy. that's powerful information as we go into the fall, because this may be a seasonal coronavirus. there are four seasonal coronaviruses. this might become a fifth one, and it might have its biggest impact in those at higher risk. the other four account for about 25% of the common cold. >> melissa: wow. okay. we have to scoot, as harris says. the nypd's top cop highlighting another challenge officers are facing as a patrol the streets during the pandemic. we will tell you what it is, next. ♪ ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo-hoo! great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health.

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...no matter what they're up to. it protects your info... ...and gives you 24/7 peace of mind... ...that if it's connected, it's protected. even that that pet-camera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that? xfinity xfi can because it's... ...simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] >> harris: the nypd is warning burglaries are up in the big apple amid the coronavirus lockdown, and that there's not much police officers can do about that. police commissioner dermot shea says the cities to be a reform law is not helping. he said in the end it's got to be fixed. "it's frustrating. the cops to mak make a rest for these burglaries, with the existing law. what's happening is the individuals are being released immediately, and that is something that ultimately in the

end will have to be fixed." you know, marie, i come to you on this. the policies that got us to a point where we were already seeing recidivism among those people who are being released, now it's chronic. because the flip of the door is so quick, and we don't have as many right now because of covid-19, as many people on the streets to walk the beat. early on they were hundreds of police officers testing positive, some of them sick. >> marie: yeah, and the flip side of that coin are these horrible outbreaks of covid-19 that we've seen in prisons around the country. once it gets into a prison population, because of the close quarters, because it maybe not as good hygiene, it just explodes. these are heartbreaking stories. we seen prisoners holding signs up to the window asking for help. it's a really tough public policy question. how do you prevent outbreaks among this prison population? because of the situation they're in. are there people you can release

early? we talked a lot for the last year and a half about reforms to our prison system, sentencing reforms, the cash bail reforms. this is a broader socioeconomic issue in our country. yet another one of them that is really coming to a head in an interesting and complicated way in this crisis. >> harris: i want to point out, though, this recent bail reform was just since january. so this is something that commissioner shays saying, "they knew this was coming down the pike, they could see it." it's only april, and look what's happening. i want to get this out. the total burglaries were reported citywide come april 13th-19th. that is a 36.3% rise compared with the same period last year. those are the latest nypd stats. katie? >> katie: okay, is anybody surprised that when you release criminals into a city where nobody has the right to defend themselves that burglaries would go up?

i mean, in new york city people aren't allowed to own firearms. at least it's very difficult. so, of course burglaries take advantage of the fact that everyone is defenseless. i feel sorry for the people who are in their homes, not knowing if someone's going to break in and be violent or steal their stuff at a time when everybody's desperate. >> harris: you know what's interesting, too, melissa, is we look at the types of crime. out in los angeles, major cities in california, but particularly l.a., seeing crime go down pay but there's an uptick in car thefts. you know why? people in their houses, and their cars are parked out front. they become the targets. melissa? >> melissa: yeah, this story didn't surprise me in the least. i remember mayor de blasio and governor cuomo saying that crime was way down because people were at home and they weren't out. and i thought to myself, "yeah, right.

this is not going to last." they know the police are otherwise occupied. sure enough, it's been a massive amount of car break-ins. i go check on my car every day to see what's going on. this is just one of those things, as he let people out for nonviolent offenses, that unfortunately criminals then adjust their behavior to something that they are more likely to get away with. and this is why we always hear about broken windows, policing, and why that tactic works. >> harris: there's also something called, in law, the slippery slope of crime. one thing can lead to another. we just hope that it stays nonviolent, as we are saying. there won't be any hugs from that commissioner. we are just hours away from a very different kind of commissioner. the nfl draft is virtual our new normal? ♪ refinance than ever. the newday va streamline refi is the reason why.

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>> melissa: tonight's nfl draft was supposed to be one of

the most elaborate productions in league history, with tens of thousands of fans on the las vegas strip watching the nfl theory players via boat on the stage in the bellagio fountain. one of th them is better to seie the spotlight remotely, with commissioner roger gooddell announcing selections from the basement of his home. dr. makary, i want your professional opinion here, because you need to settle a little dispute in my house. we are going to be staying up to watch the niners and the giants and the tampa bay buccaneers and their picks. what is your professional opinion on how late i can let my football fans stay up, here? in the name of joy and celebration, when we have had so little recently and so little to look forward to? it's going to go late into the night. how important is it to seize fun and celebrate where we can? >> dr. makary: for the 49ers i would say 8:00 p.m. for tampa bay, you can stay up all night. that could be an exciting

season. [laughter] the draft has been overhyped for a long time. the nfl stretches this thing out from one day to multiple days to a week. if it were up to them, for tv rights and the hype, they would probably announce the players name in the morning using their first name and then announce their last name in the afternoon and fill it with commercials. the whole thing has been overhyped. just give me the roster and i'm cool with that. >> melissa: but i need something. i'm looking forward to this more than i think i've ever looked forward to a draft, without question. who's with me? marie, are you excited about that? >> marie: i am. all they want is for the washington redskins to select chase young, the ohio state buckeyes standout defensive player, so i can watch them play in person when we get football back. that's the only thing i'll be watching for today. >> melissa: katie, what are you watching for? >> katie: think good for the internet. i'm not a big nfl fan but i'm grateful we can continue what we're doing through the internet.

congratulations to the draft running away to get this done. i'm happy for the players, too. this is their dream to play in the nfl. good for them. >> melissa: i love it. we are going to be watching very late, i'm afraid. thank you to dr. marty makary and the rest of the virtual couch. we are back here at noon eastern tomorrow. "outnumbered overtime" with harris starts right now. ♪ >> harris: well, there are new details on a propaganda battle going on amid the coronavirus pandemic. you're watching "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. u.s. officials telling fox news that three nations -- china, russia, and iran -- are pushing a similar disinformation narrative about covid-19 and the united states. they are focused on lying and saying the u.s. is negligent and they are pushing conspiracy theories about the virus and how it originated, claiming it is severely damaging the u.s.