april 23rd, 2020 as we move our way through this covid-19 difficult time. "the story" continues. we will be right back here tomorrow night with you at 7:00. tucker carlson is coming up next. have a great night, everybody. stay safe. ♪ >> tucker: that evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." if you are under the age of a hundred you have never lived in a world where that united nations was not the most powerful country on earth. for centuries america's dominance has shaped the globe, many of our most basic assumptions that we think of america, about democracy, culture, art and the value of human life are now much of the world's assumptions, at least, officially. this has been an american century but there is no mandate that we could leave the world forever. in countless ways this pandemic has showed us that, it has

revealed how terrifyingl terrify vulnerable we are. we know longer make masks here, we need specific medicines and we know longer need those eith either. ct scans in an endless list of other critical devices, none of them are made here anymore. just like our phones and our routers and our machine tools in our airplane parts. china makes an awful lot of what we use and by the way, a lot of what our military uses. china has grown rich from selling all of this to us and that's why when we need to raise money in a crisis, this crisis for example, we sell our debt to china. if america goes bankrupt after all this, bankruptcy and the way that our leaders are responding to the pandemic that could happen. it will likely be the chinese who bail us out, they are the only ones who can afford it. all of this is real and horrifying and most of us are just waking up to it now. so the question is, how did it happen? how did the world's richest democracy become dependent upon a hostile foreign dictatorship?

there are a lot of reasons for that. our leadership class allowed this to happen. sometimes they did it in secret. and they got rich from doing it. last night we talked told you about a consulting firm called mckinsey and company. mckinsey is the recruiter of choice for many graduates. pete buttigieg did out of harvard. mckinsey makes money selling advice and that advise saudi arabia's crown prince for example how to silence all descent and his kingdom. in the 1980s, mckinsey urged banks to expand something called securitization, that's the practice of selling bundled loans. that practice led directly to the 2008 financial crisis. mckenzie promoted a concept called outsourcing. u.s. companies they argued could increase short-term profits by

sending many of their jobs overseas. kenzie defended this process by producing in-house research which, in the end they thought would be, it didn't happen. and early on, mckenzie even offered its services to the communist party of china at a discount. the managing director served at the advisory board of the china developing bank which is the main driver behind of the most aggressive and brutal kind of colonialism of the world has seen in more than 100 years. so china rose and america declined but mckenzie still found ways to make money here in the u.s. the company advised purdue pharma on how they could "supercharge sales" of their addictive painkiller oxycontin.

mckenzie urged purdue to use mail orders to bypass pharmacists that were trying to keep addicts from getting narcotics. mckenzie advised purdue on how to "counter the emotional messages from others with teenagers who overdosed on opioids. considering all the injuries this country has sustained over the past 40 years, the loss of manufacturing and unprecedented drug academic epidemic that has changed art demographics, leaders aligning with foreign dictatorships and a financial ice economy. mckinsey and company is directly implicated in every one of these disasters. the ties are especially shocking. we introduce you to a longtime partner in mckenzie called peter walker. management in mckenzie are eager to fawn over the government.

mckenzie's senior partner peter walker came off like smitten teenager. "what i discovered in china was, the people were happy. we were proud to come if they were energized. the government officials i met genuinely wanted to do the right thing for the people. well, as it turned out this was just a taste of walker's effusive praise for the chinese government. here's more. >> i think the chinese people have realized that anytime they are upset by what happens whether it's an earthquake or stars or what's going on with the price of pork, i think that people speak out loud and clear and i think the government is largely responsive. but to me that's just part of a system where they define democracy as a responsive to the people. and i think they tend to do that reasonably well.

>> tucker: walker says he's visited china 80 times over the course of his long career. it's called powerful, different, and equal. chinese sub state propaganda authorities have plate praise walker's book is helpful to their cause. after we aired last night's segment, peter walker contacted our office here and ask for the chance to come onto the show and respond to what we said and we are glad he did. peter walker joins us tonight. mr. walker, thank you so much for coming on. i want to start with the pandemic because that's what we were talking about in the first place. and i'm telling you -- i'm quoting you here. we were praising china's response and i said, when people look back at what was done with the magnitude of the quarantine in china, they are going to get high praise. credible reports suggest that chinese authorities locked people in their apartments and left them to die. we know they snatched people off the street and threw them into police vans and that's where

they went. that's a quarantine that you think they deserve high praise for. why? >> i think tucker if you just look at the results, there will always be questions about what the numbers are but i think the harsh action that they took given the scale of china and a number of big cities was exactly what they needed to do to be able to prevent the outbreak from going any further. the reality is that outbreak hasn't gone much beyond wuhan. their lack of disclosure and lack of transparency, they should be faulted for that and accountable for that. >> tucker: okay. what would you say to the families of those who died, starve to death alone in their apartments are people wondering where their relatives went after they were bundled into chinese police vans. how would you square their grief with the praise that you just heaped on the quarantine? >> at the end of the day you

just have to look at the total picture. it's like when cuomo gets on every night and trump gets on every night. everyone's heart goes out to every individual that died and that's part of the suffering that comes with the disease. it's heartbreaking, every single one of them is. but they had to do it otherwise, if you can imagine the scale of china, if that blew out in large numbers to other cities the numbers will be off the charts. >> tucker: wuhan where it began is roughly the size of the new york metro area. given that you are praising their response, is there anything you are locking into new york? >> i think we got a late start.

in china got a late start, too. but the u.s. got a late start and was also more unprepared when it comes to having the kind of people, the staff, the health workers, the equipment that was required to, the ppe and all of that. >> tucker: for sure, i think that's right. but if we had started earlier do you think it would be wise to lock people in apartments until they die? >> look, there are a lot of things about it that i don't like and those specific actions were i think overly harsh, insensitive. and china bears the brunt of that, they are accountable for that and i totally agree. >> tucker: okay. so you said you don't like some of the things china has done. i want to go to something you said to come this is from your website, that you do like. you are asked about the uighurs, i'm sure you've been asked many times. you are contraste contrasting ur

example you mentioned the weakness, and dramatic improvements in the uighurs quality of life and that would include the last 50 years including a sharp reduction in islamic terrorist incidents. that's what china got out of putting in? it sounds like it was a fair trade-off. >> no i don't. i understand that for the government's point of view, clamping down on islamic terrorism was a high priority. they are fanatics about stability. do i agree that locking down a million people in an internment camp is a smart way to deal with

islamic terrorism? absolutely not. so -- >> tucker: may i ask, why would you know that their literacy had increased? i guess -- >> that's an important point. one of the things and researching my book which became very clear to me, the chinese people, i said you have a lot of things going, why are you doing the things the way you do? one of the things you discover about the chinese society, it's a collective society is so very different from the individualistic society of the u.s. so in china, literally the way they would look at it is there were probably 80 million people where they live. we locked up 1 million men so 79 million people are materially

better off in terms of the quality of life, standard of living and everything else. it was only about 1.5% that we locked up and that's how we think about it. do i agree with that? no. i don't agree with it. that difference between collectivism and common good is a huge disconnect with the u.s. we regard and always have been proud of every human life is sacred and therefore any unjustice or injustice is something we ought to be railing against and they are just not wired that way. >> tucker: sure. do you think it's a genetic question when you said they are not wired that way? >> know it really goes back to confucian values. i know there's been a lot of negative press on confucian institutes but if you just go back to confucian values, one of the things you will learn his

family first, society second. individual way down the totem pole and the individual's role is self improvement through education to better serve family and society. so whenever you talk to the chinese about, how is the country doing, they always go back to the broad base of maximum number of people out of poverty and education. >> tucker: i bet they do. that's a pretty handy way to excuse putting a million people in a concentration camp. i wonder though, and i know this is hard, this is a problem in my life, it's hard to hear myself sometimes when i speak. but listening to you it sounds like a pure apology for fascist behavior. >> well let me go back to what i said before. do i agree with putting a million people in an internment camps, absolutely not. in the u.s. went through this,

too. >> tucker: will actually -- well let me ask you the obvious question because i don't think anyone would do this for free. how much money have you made over the course of your long career with mckenzie in china, just a rough estimate out there, it might be helpful to understand. >> yeah, look. i'm not -- i probably spent a quarter of my time in china over the course of roughly a dozen years, something like that. and so you know -- >> tucker: i guess the point i'm making, this country in part at the urging of mackenzie is now economically tied to china. you have to wonder if the values you describe which are repulsive, i think most individuals would agree with that, i wonder if that's hurting our country. why would we want to be aligned with the government that

grotesque? is that a fair question? >> i'm a real pragmatist. so we as a country made a real mistake in not protecting our intellectual property. now the cow is out of the barn and the reality is, the chinese momentum behind their economy is very strong. and containment is too little, too late. so as a pragmatist i basically say if china and the u.s. got together on the next coronavirus or got together on the paris accord or whatever the issue is, the world would be a better place. >> tucker: perhaps you are right but to dismiss our present concerns as too far gone to fix is a little bit like setting a fire and then not calling the fire department because the building is a total loss. i mean mckenzie is one of the reasons that we don't make

pharmaceuticals or masts or a lot of machine tools or a million other things in this country, because you all advised american companies to offshore production. so do you regret that advice that you gave to american companies? >> look. i think we are in a different world now in terms of being much clearer about what really essential goods are or not. i think in the spirit of what mckenzie is advising, i think everybody was in favor of free trade in the sense of, let every country do what they do well. if you can take advantage of cheap, talented labor in china which is not so cheap anymore, it was kind of something that improved the overall economic well-being globally. and the economist say that. i think now that we are realizing the dependency is, how many americans would have imagined that most of the ingredients for pharmaceuticals came from china and you're

vulnerable. >> tucker: did you think about it at the time because you had -- for sure, and that's why we are grateful you are on because a lot of us have been awakened to that's. most of us had a front row seat but were blissfully unaware. did it ever occur to you that maybe we should make some antibiotics in the united states? is it unwise as an american to abet the off shoring of pharmaceuticals? >> we can always look back and say, i know that at that point in time the economic model which was both democratic and republican was maximum economic good for everybody and i don't think people really paid attention to, what are the risks, what are the second-order consequences. and frankly one of the wake-up calls coming out of this virus are going to be, people are going to sit down and say what are we willing to give up in

terms of economic efficiency, in exchange for security? and that will be important decisions. >> tucker: i think that's actually true. so let me end on this. you spent 46 years at mckenzie, you've written about it and officially had a chance to think deeply about it. do you regret participating in any of these trends, the ones that you say we should rethink? >> you know the vast majority of my work-related to china was for chinese companies. and frankly, they were doing the same thing. my world was a world of insurance so i helped chinese insurance companies just do the basic things. so it was get policies that provide better protection for consumers. communicate more clearly so people understand what the products are. be smart about how you price it. cut your costs when you can. so i really wasn't involved in

the u.s.-china link directly. but if my mckenzie buddies were here today i think they would say, as i have, that free trade was so the dominant mantra of the time that anything that could be done to foster that and make anything anywhere was pretty much unquestioned. and like i said with this virus, we will revisit that. you know, i don't agree that there is going to be a huge increase of manufacturing jobs back here because what's going to happen is a lot of the supply chains will go to the philippines, thailand, vietnam. so the country is going to have to say, we are going to be willing to pay an extra percent for pharmaceuticals to have maximum safety and i think that's a very fair question and fair trade-off. >> tucker: so no regrets. peter walker, thanks for coming on tonight, i appreciate you doing now.

>> thank you tucker, i've enjoyed it. >> tucker: there's no information tonight about how many new yorkers have coronavirus antibodies and that could tell us a lot about how the disease spreads from person to person. trace gallagher has been tracking this and he joins us now. >> along with two california studies new york is now the third major antibody study conducted in the u.s. all three suggest a virus is a lot more widespread than we thought. in new york they tested 3,000 people from 19 counties. these were people at shopping centers and big-box chains. they found that 13.9% of those tested had signs of the virus in their blood. if accurate that means 2.7 million people in new york have already had coronavirus and intern that would significantly lower their fatality rate 2.05%. still about four times higher than seasonal flu but 30 times lower than numerous studies have suggested. scientists still do not know if having antibodies means you are

immune for a year, two years or life. it's notable that the number of new york deaths in the past four days is down 40%. integrations are down 11 days running. tucker? >> tucker: thanks so much for that. that news out of new york which you just heard raises more questions about the actual death rate. look at the numbers. you will find that some places are being hit very, very hard and others are almost untouched. why is that and what are the implications for us in the locked down? we will investigate after the break. musica♪

>> tucker: as of right now almost 49,000 people have died of the coronavirus in the united states so far, that's approaching the total of american servicemen killed during vietnam. but unlike vietnam the death toll from this pandemic has not spread evenly across the country. collateracoronavirus deaths arel clustered in a struggling small number of places. only nine seats out of 50 as of right now i have recorded more than a thousand deaths from the virus. close to half of all deaths nationwide have occurred in just two states, new york, new york, and new jersey. new york has recorded 15,200 deaths in new jersey about a third of that. after new york and new jersey the death total declined dramatically. you wouldn't necessarily expect that to happen. new york and new jersey have dense urban areas but are not the biggest states. our three biggest states have been relatively lightly touched.

california, which is by far the largest has seen just 1,268 deaths out of a population of 40 million. texas, number two has had only 517 deaths. florida 867. for perspective about 4,000 americans die every year from choking on their meals. so why is this happening? or more precisely in so many places why is it not happening? why are the numbers so skewed toward the urban north east? the answer is nobody is really sure but we should try to find out. if half of all americans killed in vietnam came from new york to new jersey we could probably get a close look at how they were conducting the draft. we ought to figure out what it is and let's hope we do. but for now what's clear, this virus is concentrated not simply in a handful of states but in a small number of places, especially southern new york in and around new york city and northern new jersey, particularly in which the council's commute into

new jersey. possibly because also these are the places where national media figures live. the pandemic often seems like a nationwide disaster. it definitely is a disaster, many people have died and will continue to die sadly. but as a factual matter, the virus itself hasn't yet been a nationwide killer. in some states it has barely happened. in nebraska, 38 people have died so far. in arkansas, 43. idaho 51. vermont, 40. in oregon, a state of more than 40 million people with a couple of dense urban areas, the total death toll to an age nine. this is very good news. washington state, but the first confirmed carrier of the disease returned from china and has seen fewer than 700 people die, we did not anticipate that. the bad news as many of these barely affected states are still

suffering under strict lockdowns. consider main. the state of maine. the more than a fifth of the states over 65. based on what officials have repeatedly told us he would expect that maine would be devastated by the virus. as of tonight only a total of 44 people there have died. far more people have been killed hitting those in the past five years. last month governor janet mills panicked and ordered residents to stay in their homes. >> this virus will continue to sicken people across our state and our country. and if you love your neighbor, your family come if you love the state as i do, please don't travel. stay healthy, stay home.

>> tucker: nearly a month after she ordered the state to stay home, fewer than 50 people have died. at some point governor mills will ask about this and i will certainly take credit for the low death toll. she will claim her lockdown saved countless lives. the problem is, she doesn't know that that's true and there's evidence it didn't. south dakota didn't lockdown at all and only nine people have died there. in the meantime, families have been destroyed by the decision. more than 100,000 people have filed for unemployment which is more than 10% of the entire population. it's been a complete disaster. maine's economy has long been fragile. it will not recover from this for years if it ever does recover. so did janet mills make a wise decision when she shut down her state? if shif you think she did pleasl

us what other communicable diseases she should respond to. 31 people have died there so far. montana's death toll tonight is 14. so maybe the lesson of all of this is not every place in america is the same. not everywhere as new york or new jersey. the threat to rural america from this virus is minuscule so why are we punishing the people who live outside of the cities? it seems mindless and cruel which is to say it's perfectly consistent with this political moment. at this pandemic was disproportionately hurting rural america, what we respond the same way? if towns in maine like rumford and andover and brookfield were highly infected with the coronavirus, would bill de blasio shut down midtown manhattan in response? with a media respond that he do that? with with the professional class in our cities change their lives at all? would they even notice it was happening? we don't have to guess about this, we know the answer to it because something similar has

already happened, it is happening. companies based in america cities as well as mainland, china, have flooded rural america with new caught ohmic narcotics. over a five-year period to come one company shipped almost a million doses of opioid painkillers to america. mckesson sent more than a million of those pills to a single county in west virginia with a total population of fewer than 25,000 people. by the end predictably west virginia had the highest drug overdose rate in america. this was a man-made epidemic and it still raging. that epidemic has killed far more americans than the wuhan coronavirus has, or will. but how many times exiting that story on "the today show"? how many questions about it were democratic candidates for us to answer during last fall's debates? not so many. what's been happening to rural america and people who live there for the past 30 years, have been a unprecedented disaster. unfortunately as far as the

leaders are concerned these are the wrong people. they don't really count. that's one thing we've definitely learned in the last month. ♪ prudential is proud to provide over one million health care workers with benefits that help bring peace of mind in times like these.

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>> tucker: at there's presidential election coming up, but if you had forgotten that, joe biden has been invisible in living by, in his basement by design. you shouldn't have him out there talking and more people to see

him, the fewer voters he may have. already getting more attention than he's already promised to pick a woman. >> if i have an opportunity to appoint someone to the courts i will appoint the first black woman to the courts. my cabinet in my administration will look like the country and out commit that i will in fact pick a woman to be vice president. >> tucker: one thing we know about joe biden, if he's elected he probably isn't going to serve too long and probably won't make to many key decisions. this will be the most significant vice presidency in the history of this republic, that's for sure. so it's a huge opportunity for someone with basically no resume but a big reserve of aggression. lots of people are vying for it. on the view recently stacy abrams said it would in fact be

racist if she didn't get it. watch this. >> biden has committed to a woman as vice president but has stopped short of committing to a woman of color. how important is it do you think for a biden to make that commitment, and do you think that not choosing a woman of color, a black woman actually is a slap in the face to black female voters? >> i would share your concern about not picking a woman of color because women of color, particularly black women are the strongest part of the democratic party. we need a ticket that it reflects the of america. >> tucker: dana perino hosts "the daily briefing with dana perino" and is obvious like a frequent guest of the show. always happy when she's here. stacy abrams is basically saying if you don't pick me, you're a racist. i think i kind of agree with that. what do you think? i think joe biden kind of has to pick her. >> i'm sure that the biden team is scrabbling tonight to figure out how to respond by 6:00 a.m.

so he already knew that he had a teetering hold over the party. he's a 78-year-old white guy and this is a party that is increasingly focused on gender and racial politics. even though he -- if he won the nomination he would be running against a fellow white guy, he knew the pellet, politics of the party so well, enough to say, i will pick a woman. i think it strange to me from where i grew up to openly campaign to get the job as the vice president, to me, it's distasteful. i don't think she has the rigor to handle a national campaign. i also think on their vice presidential pick the first thing you do is, do no harm. she has a lot of political baggage. in the biden team doesn't have enough strength to carry all that baggage. i think when the betting is complete she's not going to be on the ticket. >> tucker: that would be even more reckless than running

joe biden. i have to think though, and this is not just my view as an emphatic nondemocrat but i think the vice presidential pick is kind of the key to who's going to govern the country if joe biden is elected. when do you think you will announce that? >> i think they have a lot of work to do before then. we've been talking about many democrats are sounding the alarm that the biden campaign has a terrible digital deficit against the trump campaign. they have a campaign deficit, a money deficit and a lot of problems. i don't think his vice presidential pick -- i think it's important but i don't think they will do it until way, way closer. probably near august when they have their convention because right now all we are talking about as the pandemic as we should. the president is driving the narrative and will always be able to do that with the bully pulpit so i would wait, if i were them. >> tucker: and i don't fully

understand, quickly, i'm interested in your view on this. why is it with all these democrats and all this money, why is biden down so far in the money race? >> i think partly it was because he was terrible at fund-raising to begin with. he doesn't have a grassroots fund-raising mechanism like bernie sanders dead, the democrats are trying to do that. their act blue organization is pretty good. that money is starting to come in and he had a pretty good month in march. i think the money will be there but president trump has shown it doesn't necessarily matter how much money you have, do you have a message? if you don't have a message and they can't leave the basement, i don't know how they campaign. >> tucker: they are in a fix for sure. dana perino, great to see you tonight, thank you for that. >> okay, take care. >> tucker: the blood plasma of coronavirus patients who have

been recovered is not being used to treat those who are still dangerously ill. how does this work, and does it work? dr. mark steagall has more on this treatment. hello doctor. >> hi, tucker. if you take away the blood cells you have the plasma which is called the body's liquid gold because of all the nutrients it has. and if you are talking about convalescent plasma you're talking about plasma with antibodies to it. the mayo clinic is leading an initiative around the country to see if these antibodies are helpful for covid-19. if there's a long history going back to diphtheria in the 1890s. fighting the spanish flu and fighting measles with convalescent plasma, fighting polio and now fighting cobit 19. covid-19. i spoke to marty searle who is running the initiative here in new york. >> so far to date under the mayo clinic extended access program which is what our hospitals are under come in about hundred patients have been

transfused with convalescent plasma. the initial results, tentative, are very promising. >> tucker, this is not a cure but it's a way to treat extremely sick patients who are on ventilators who may not have any other hope and it seems to be working. what will help even more of these antibody tests that we've been talking about because then you will know that you will have a strong immune response that can then be useful and you are the one that we are going to want the plasma from. that will get a larger donor pool going but a lot of people who really care have been coming forward for the study and it looks good so far. >> tucker: and it's just a blood donation, not a spinal tap, it's pretty easy to do, correct? >> you go to the blood bank and this is what you do if you are getting over this. it's very encouraging and very useful. >> tucker: dr. siegel, thank you for that, good to see you.

>> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: while gretchen whitmer is the governor of michigan and she's had may be the most disastrous response to this pandemic in the country. case in point she tried to hire a democratic activist group to collect public health data. that was dumb, but was it illegal? one expert thinks she broke the law and doing that. he joins us, next. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> tucker: earlier this week as we told you at the time the governor of michigan gretchen whitmer may be the least competent out of 50, tried to give a $200,000 no-bid contract to a group called great lakes community engagement to track the spread of coronavirus. great lakes community engagement isn't a neutral company fluent

in health statistics, as a political operation founded by a democratic clinical consultant and a plan to use technology from mgp van, a company that boasts providing tech for almost every democratic campaign in a america. imagine gathering information from the people of michigan under the pretext of public health and sending it to a democratic campaign outfit. that's what gretchen whitmer tried to do with tax dollars. the contract was canceled after people noticed it, but one expert says the mere attempt to do it probably broke the law. adam might know about the law, the former attorney general of the state of nevada and outside counsel with americans for public trust. he joins us tonight. thanks so much for coming on. i don't think there's any question that what she did was wrong, a betrayal of the public trust and that's when she pulled back the contract. but tell us about the legality of it, if you would.

>> well tucker, i think she could be in big trouble. so this contract gets awarded to this democratic group and politics in your official office are never supposed to overlap. michigan is onl one of the only states in america where the government and legislature are exempted from freedom of information act request. so she doesn't have to turn over these records, she's already rejected them. she put an order on top of that that her entire government will not do freedom of information requests all the way through june. so she has basically said, look. it's a pandemic and i'm just not going to be accountable to the people during a pandemic which obviously i think is outrageous, but i think if the public understood what this means they would be an incredibly outraged. it's now the time where she's huge decisions on liberties and people's lives and spending money that the people should have more of an insight into how

she's making these decisions, not less. but that's the system they are under right now and she already found time to reject our initial foia request. so we will foia every state and entity that should have had a request. that's where they will find the real trouble. did they go through the hurdles they should have to pass the state contact? i would add one interesting thing, any contract over $250,000 goes to a public board that the governor sits on the come of the attorney general sits on. the public could have seen it, they could've asked questions. magically this thing ends up under that threshold so, lo and behold it doesn't go to a public board. there's a lot of questions to be answered and of course the governor could clear this up by simply releasing these records and letting the public know exactly how this contract came about. >> tucker: i don't understand -- pardon my naivete or ignorance but how can

politicians exempt herself from freedom of information law, how does that work? >> i don't know why the people would accept it but the governor and legislature has exempted themselves by statute. that's the people. they have allowed that somehow. the part that is new is her adding this order that all of the government will not do foia requests during the pandemic. again, this is the time they should absolutely be working. that i would add that someone found the time to read our request and deny it so someone is working. and you know, we would request and hopefully people like you would requests and make these people respond to this. the governor can absolutely respond to this foia request and she must because you have already public health records, the most sacrosanct in government. hip, all these things that we have to comply with, they are already at this data firm. what is this data from doing with them?

what is the contract that was limiting how they were supposed to use this firm? and by the way, how did the firm get the contract? interestingly she hired someone a month ago who was from the pete buttigieg campaign to be her comms person. he works for her as well as hhs. and so she pulled back the contract but who in the governor's office participated in this and did they do it the right way? by the way, you can't just pull the contract necessarily the right way, either. i would just finish that no-bid contracts are very hard and they are very rare. so why was this a no-bid contract? >> tucker: while of course, it's absurd. a public health information, we can't get your own kids health records because of hipaa, unbelievable. they shall begin tonight with what turned out to be a

remarkable interview with a long time partner from mckinsey and company. we will have more to say about what happened, after the break. musica♪ at papa john's, we want you to know that from our 450-degree oven, to box, to you, it's our policy that your pizza is never touched once it comes out of the oven. and we're taking extra steps, like no contact delivery, to ensure it.

>> tucker: pretty remarkable interview at the top of the hour, if you miss that we're putting a link up on foxnews.com, it will re-air during the repeat three hours from now. our guest a former mckinsey senior partner made some remarkable claims, he said china

putting a million ethnic minorities in a concentration camp was the same as what fdr did to the japanese in the second world war, as if the united states and the communist chinese government are morally the same -- they are not. that went on from there, if you missed it, check it out. it's 9:00 p.m. eastern, time for the great sean hannity. >> sean: listen, you know what? i love the upbeat message and i love when you stay with your family and friends and stay close, great job. good message. welcome to "hannity," we have never before, ever seen this level of mass madness, rage, insanity, hysteria, psychosis, and it's the same predictable people, top democrats, their willing allies, their state run tv, the media mob -- they will t give your president credit for absolutely