that does it for us. live from -- oh, yes? >> ed: i want to end with some good news. your mom and i share this love of coffee cake. i've been contacted by another bakery, this one in massachusetts, which says they have the best recipe. ahead of mother's day, may be on friday, i will reveal the recipe, mom. >> sandra: can't wait. thanks for joining us, everybody. "outnumbered" starts now. >> melissa: fox news alert for you now, president trump sanding off as congressional democrats ramp up demands for coronavirus task force to testify. the president himself explaining the decision to block dr. anthony fauci's appearance before the house subcommittee last week, but signaled the nation's top infectious disease doctor will take questions in the senate. watch. speak of the house is a set up. the house is a bunch of trump haters. they put every trumped hater and the committee. the same old stuff. dr. fauci will be testifying in

front of the senate, and he looks forward to doing that. >> melissa: the white house previously stated fauci's testimony would be counterproductive with the coronavirus outbreak, not yet under control, earlier today tops and a democrat chuck schumer saying it's imperative that fauci dominic dr. fauci and others appear before congress. >> facui has been muzzled at times and has times has spoken the truth. i would seem the i would say the same for dr. birx pray the president has been wrong so often, has belittled this crisis so often, and has been incompetent so others dominic often, like in producing the testing. we need to hear from a multiple variety of sources to get the truth. >> melissa: this is "outnumbered," and i'm from melissa francis. here today, my partner, harris faulkner. also joining us today, jessica tarlov, fox news contributor. i see dr. nicole saphier there, as well.

and we have ari fleischer, who is "outnumbered." ari, i'll start with you. what do you think about the president's decision on this friend? who doesn't make sense to hear from? is now the time? >> ari: i think in a nation where very few things are working anymore, it is delightful to see washington working as usual. and this is usual in washington. it always happens this way and divided government, that the white house puts their witnesses before a friendly committee's first. the senate is controlled by democrats in the bomb aero, they would put their witnesses before the democratic senate and send them to the house. as long as they end up at the house, that's proper. they need to still do that. the house does have legitimate reasons to hold hearings. what i have zero problem with starting them off in the senate. good for them. >> melissa: okay. here is what speaker pelosi had to say on that front. dr. saphier, i will ask you if it's fair.

>> well, i was hoping they would spend more time on the crisis instead of those daily shows the president put on. but the fact is that we need to allocate resources to this. in order to do that, the appropriations bill must begin in the house. and we have to have the information to act upon. we must insist on the truth. now, it's interesting, they said, "we're not going to the house. close group of the logo to the senate. >> melissa: what you think about that, dr. saphier? >> dr. saphier: i don't know how i feel about pelosi's criticism, calling the daily briefing "the daily show." polling shows that 50% of americans say they come out of those briefings more informed. up to dat 80% prefer to get ther information straight from dr. fauci. that level transparency in front of the camera is crucial right now and you have a lot of americans who are scared, who are suffering. i really like that face time for him.

the fact that americans trust them so much, he is the right person to go in front of congress and testify. but i really worry about the timing, because i think partisan animosity is very dangerous right now when we are still in the midst of a crisis. i think timing is everything. right now is not the time to take away from focusing on the crisis at hand. >> melissa: jessica, doesn't it make sense to send him before the senate, where things tend to be a little bit more orderly and civilized? although in this day and age, politics kind of invades every chamber. >> jessica: yeah, a pox on both their houses, i would say, with that. the real issue is the president makes the decision, that dr. fauci should be focusing on the epidemic. then this morning with the press he admitted he didn't want them going to the house because it's a set up. were getting back into that argument that he loves to make about how everyone is just out to get him, and it's a

witch hunt, blah, blah, blah. >> melissa: you don't think that's fair? >> jessica: no, i don't think it's fair to take the top doctor in the country right now, the most trusted person about a global pandemic, and not put him in front of duly elected members of congress who are serving oversight, which is important. on top of it, to nancy pelosi's point, the funding bills are going to come out of the house first. so, shouldn't we be hearing from the guy in charge of this? the guy americans trust the most? on the one, frankly, who is saving president trump's hide on regular basis. he is the one who should sit in front of congress people end. >> melissa: harris, the question i was asking was, isn't it fair to say that a lot of times in the house especially right now, controlled by the speaker, it does seem like it is a bit of a hit job on the president? with this be different? >> harris: well, i guess you could point to impeachment. right? there have been a lot of things that have gone on politically in

the house. i don't even think -- this is different. i agree with ari in the sense that, if you are all going to be big boys & girls club and put on our big britches at the end of the day, and everybody gets their say, then start where you want to start. i guess, if that's how the rules allow it. i will say there are democrats in the senate, though -- and, ari, i would ask you -- when democrats are complaining, are the only important questions ever going to come when you're in the majority? can't you ask great questions even when you don't reign in house with the majority committed can you be part of the conversation, or will republicans exclude democrats to make i haven't read or seen that. >> ari: that's why most hearings are not slam-dunk to one side of the other. besides get to ask questions. face it, dr. fauci and dr. birx are big boys & girls club. they are going to do just fine on the hill. i think americans should hear from both of them. it's good to hear from both.

there's nothing magical about the house going first. it's smart, anytime you have a divided government, send your witnesses up to the body under which you have party control first. so long as you've covered both of you done your obligation. this is traditional. there is nothing new about this except for chuck schumer and nancy pelosi love to complain that nobody should do it the way they always used to do it. but donald trump has to change though he does it. that's all that's going on here. >> melissa: and we certainly have heard from the task force and the president, a lot along the way. here is the president talking about hearing some more. oh, forgive me, it's a full screen. we probably will do maybe one a week, sometimes two depending on the news. we'll do them." he's talking about the task force briefings. "we get a lot of people watching and that's the way you get around fake news. in other words, i have a much

bigger audience than anybody has ever had." ari, what do you think about that? >> ari: hurrah. i've been calling for this for weeks. even presidents get over exposed. >> harris: yes, you have. >> ari: so, cut these back to fewer of them. do not eliminate them. they are still good for the president, good for the country, good for the press corps. we still want to see dr. fauci and dr. birx to questions. i'm all for this. it's sensible, it's wise, it is still good government. i don't think that she was the number of people watching. i don't think that's the only measurement. the real measurement is the quality of the briefings. are the press asking serious questions? i would say 85% or 95% of reporters are asking serious questions. there's always going to be a few posteriors in that room who are doing it to show off. they are mostly the tv types. that comes with the territory. they sort of embarrassed themselves. cut it back, reduce the number, shorten the duration, that's good government. >> melissa: made a good point.

if that you don't want to stand up there and answer questions for really long period of time, but what you want to do is go through the first run of questions and maybe if you do get one of those questions that is posturing, as you said, can't you just skip it and move on and say, "i don't think it's a productive question," and move on? >> ari: if it were me, if i were standing at the podium, i like to have fun at that room. if jim acosta got up and give another speech, i would politely listen to him, and after he was done i would say, "good luck, had to hope you get your op-ed placed on cnn tonight." you make reporters and verse themselves, you don't smack them and that by the two by four. the president has different style, he does it this way. the countability is important. government officials go into that room, taking questions important. you can't false president trump on that score. he's been doing it throughout his presidency on a regular

basis, we more than his predecessors. i think he ought overexposed, so that's why i am glad to see they're cutting it back. i was standing at the podium for more than 30 minutes, it was like being in a bar after 2:00 a.m. nothing that's what i say nothing good happens after 2:00 a.m. in a bar. nothing much good happens after 30 minutes of questioning. >> harris: very funny. you know what, leave it to ari fleischer to make us all after a crisis and come up with some good, helpful answers, too. new projections from elites government document suggest we could see a dramatic rise in daily covid-19 deaths by june 1st. is there a new cause for concern, as more states move to reopen their economies? >> this apparently is a draft modeling report of the president's recommendations on reopening the american economy, based on the soundest scientific evidence and modeling and forecasting.

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♪ >> harris: we are seeing a big week for this. dozens of states moving to ease restrictions on the public, and there is now growing concern that a second wave of coronavirus infections could be in our future. an internal fema document projecting daily covid-19 deaths will rise 70% to about 3,000 by june 1st. and new coronavirus cases will jump from 25,000 per day to 200,000 per day. the white house is pushing back saying the documents have not yet been thoroughly vetted or

presented to the covid-19 task force, and that the data are not based on any modeling done by task force officials. president trump today was also asked about those projections. watch the president. >> we are doing mitigation. we have a lot of mitigation. the fact that they are out, they are mitigating, they are social distancing. they all know that. they are washing their hands a lot. but we have to get our country open. we have to open our country. you have all reports -- models have been very inaccurate. i've seen models that are very inaccurate. spew when i come to you because you've done so much messaging on behalf of presidents in the past. what do you think of the president's message on this? in just a few hours, that is a state that's reopening. >> ari: if that's the accurate answer, that's the right thing to say. based on no mitigation, that's a good answer. i think he can go deeper, as well.

from my experience, there is a report on the shelf of pretty much every agency and every element of government that projects and predicts something. it's huge variance. sometimes they are right, more often they are not, and is the job of people to work these things through agencies. it doesn't mean any of its ready for prime time until the government announces it. that's part of the thought process. there is something healthy about different people coming up with different analyses. but it is amazing, about media coverage and human nature, how people glom onto the worst-case scenario. people just love, especially in the media, to slap on the screen, "could be as many as." and they take the worst-case scenario. i think there's a lot of that going on here in terms of why this report has gotten so much attention and so much coverage. who knows if it's right or wrong? but whatever the number is, harris, we are losing a lot of people, aren't we? >> harris: right. >> ari: that's the tragedy of any pandemic, isn't it? >> harris: well, it's also

tragic that we are so far off. you say, "could we have seen the future?" this is the future models did actually see, to some degree. and we are closing in on 70,000 dead. so it does serve us all to be as close to write about it as possible, because that is, as he said, ari, a lot of people to miss and lose. dr. saphier, to that regard, when you see the projection on june 1st, and that actually is inside the parameters of the federal guidelines for some of the states to remain on restriction, on a stay at home june 8th was som one for some southern states, just as an example. how wise or unwise is it to feather this out ahead of those dates? or as ari said, you have so many models, who can you follow? >> dr. saphier: it's really difficult to look at some of these models, because the information that is input varies. one, they don't take account into how many people have been infected with the virus. how many people have possible

immunity to it. that would really only come from the randomized testing looking for antibodies to see how many people have already recovered. so, these models are based on those positive cases we have already seen, and the current trajectory. they don't really take a broader picture of possible immunity. the bottom line is we have about 31 states that are already slowly starting to open up. they are doing that because they feel it is the right time for their states. unfortunately, that may be a little premature. it definitely is premature from the white house blueprint. some states are opening up -- >> harris: if you just follow their guidelines. >> dr. saphier: i've said this many times, state legislatures and governors have to keep the finger on the pulse of the state. they have to look at the hospital bed availability. their availability to test and contact trace. employers are going to have to start opening and they will have to have some restrictive safety measures. models don't take into account that. although they are scary, these

increased numbers, it's possible we may get to them. but they do not take into account that people are going to potentially be more responsible as they open up and try to reopen their economy. >> harris: you touched on something, they are. end of the fda this week is moving on approving some of those antibody tests, the procedural details of them, to make sure the efficacy and accuracy are there. i want to get to this, a group of mit economists have found targeted lockdowns are actually more effective than stricter ones. let's pops up on the screen. for example, a semitargeted policy that involves the lockdown of those above 65 until a vaccine arrives can release the young and middle-aged groups back into the workforce and do so more quickly and still achieve a much lower fatality rate in a population. this policy also reduces economic damage. jessica, what do you think about that? >> jessica: i think that's

where this conversation is going. i don't know if you guys caught tom friedman's piece in "the new york times" at the end of last week, he was extolling the virtues of the sweden model. which is becoming much more of a hot topic, with a doctor up at yale talking about it. people are getting more interested in the idea of these targeted lockdowns and working toward herd immunity, where 60-70% of us would have been exposed to the disease and hopefully have the antibodies. governor cuomo, earlier in his press conference, talked about the trade-offs. people die if you go out, but people also die if we are staying inside forever. we can't be locked in their homes until the end of time. society will not survive. so i think the point that you raise is incredibly important, and it foreshadows where this conversation is going to have to go, led by doctors. i think the sweden model will be used as the example for where we can potentially end up in all of this. >> harris: all right. the treasury department is borrowing at five times the record pace, as the government

tries to keep up with pandemic relief. america's growing debt burden. by the numbers. and, is this sustainable? ♪

♪ >> melissa: the treasury department says it plans to

borrow a record $3 trillion this quarter, to soften the economic impact of the coronavirus. that's more than five times the previous record on top of that, the treasury says it plans to buy a $677 billion in the next quarte. all of this pushing the debt tab to nearly $25 trillion with the deficit for the current fiscal year on pace to easily set a new record. ari, all that borrowing just kind of shows you that the government can't make up for everything that has been lost, along the way. because they can only just print money to kind of keep up for it. i would bring up the point from that mit study that harris mentioned last block. the salient feature of that was this idea that, if you only quarantine the 65-year-olds -- it looks like ari can't hear me. we will help ari with that. jessica, i will ask you. if you only quarantine the older

folks, the damage to gdp would go from 24% of gdp to 12% of gdp. that we kind of have to grow our way out of this, possibly? you can't have -- government money doesn't come from thin air. it comes from taxpayers or goes into debt. they print the money. there are all bad things. >> jessica: they are all bad things. targeting to keep inside people who are most likely to be retired is going to have a better outcome on the economy, as the younger workforce can be out there again money on pumping that back into the economy, paying their taxes and doing everything on time to keep that sufficient. i do, just as an aside, want to say that it's hilarious to me when we have these moments were people throw their hands up in the air and politicians pretend they are so concerned about the debt and the deficit. these are things that happen around elections, or if there's a crisis. the truth of matter is both republicans and democrats love to spend. they are going to continue to do this.

so we will have to figure out the state and local government, how to deal with it on their municipality level. because the federal government is going to continue this trend. the states are the ones that are going to have to be more responsible about this. >> harris: very wise. >> melissa: you're right. along those lines, california -- >> jessica: i was right! >> melissa: to borrow money from the federal government to help pay out the soaring number of unemployment claims tied to the pandemic. the most populous state borrowing nearly $350 million to dominic after getting approval to use up the $10 billion in federal funds. illinois and connecticut have also been approved to tap into the federal funds to aid with jobless claims, but neither state had borrowed any money as of april. harris, you know, this is sort of the back-and-forth. the states and municipalities keep saying, "we are desperate might for money, we need all this help." but they failed to mention, as

what i just read did, that it's available to them if they want to borrow it. but then you have to pay it back. what they are asking for is they want a gift. they could have the money today, but they would be on the hook to pay it back over time. >> harris: you know, gosh. how do you even begin with this? you know how we watch the mayors and the governors here on the east coast, and they give their news conferences? mayor de blasio of new york, about two hours ago, started his by holding up a copy of the newspaper here locally and saying, "can they believe they didn't give new york any money can back out of the president not see the suffering here?" so on and so forth. but what you are laying out, melissa, as there is money with accountability. as a nation we are to figure out -- and, by nation, i mean the people on the hill who represent all of us -- have to figure out what the rules are going to be. are the rules going to be that you have to pay it back? it can they meet someplace in the middle? but if those states are really strapped right now, melissa, you're absolutely right. they are going to have to take

the cash eventually. otherwise, where is it going to come from? will it rain from the sky? the need is real. by the way, whatever california has done, the west coast was hit first as far as we know with this beast of a virus. and they are now to the point where they are trying to be open and do things. those economies are starting to look to come back, as well. so, it's not like they didn't spend money. it's not like they didn't try and turn this whole thing around. they probably do really need it, to the tune of what they are asking. we have to talk about accountability and how that fits in. to do that, you have to have a conversation on the hill. gosh, i feel like i repeat myself every time i speak about this people on the hill! >> melissa: i know, absolutely. ari, let me ask you the question, because we are looking at states and municipalities that are begging for money. it's disingenuous for governor cuomo to stand there and say the feds aren't giving them any money, when the federal reserve has a line of

credit they could go ahead and tap right now. it just means they're on the hook to pay it back. in california, they borrowed, for example, $11 billion during the 2007-2009 recession. it took them until 2018 to pay that money back, and they point to paying back the money from the last disaster, as the reason why they didn't have a rainy day fund to pay for this disaster. so they don't want to borrow again, they want it to be a gift. what's the solution? >> ari: is never easy in the good times, let alone in pandemic times. but here's the fundamental point everybody's got to remember. every time a town, a city, or a county say, "we don't have money, we need the state to help us," every time, it's all coming from the same place. it's coming from american taxpayers. we are all one. when i hear governor cuomo say, "it's not about me, it's about

we," he should remember that himself. his law but we, the taxpayers paid all the money still has to be generated, which is another reason getting back to work is so important. that's where the money comes from. it comes from working people. that's the only place it comes from. and borrowing, which has to get paid back. the day of reckoning is coming. there's going be some serious repercussions financially, and structurally, to the united states if we don't get this under control. >> melissa: that's a great way to end, that's precisely where it started with jessica. we have to get people back to work, that the only real way to generate money for these problems. all right, two senate democrats reportedly coming out in favor of an independent investigation of a former staffer's sexual assault allegations against joe biden. despite the dnc chair saying biden has already been vetted. details, next. ♪

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>> harris: new fallout over a former joe biden staffer's claim that he sexually assaulted her in 1993 when he was a senator. just one day after dnc chair tom perez shot down calls to investigate it all, two senate democrats are reportedly saying the allegation merits an independent probe. massachusetts senator ed markey told the hill, "we needed investigation that has independence that will then ensure that the facts are established." oregon senator jeff merkley said this. "i think it's appropriate to have appropriate done i can amend its greeting brought to bear to help inform all of us ae situation." meanwhile, the senate office said it cannot officially release any possible complaint by tara reade after a records request by joe biden denied her allegations. this is a divide in your party, at least among some. why is that? are we not still in a #metoo,

believe-11 women moment for democrats? >> jessica: we are in a believe moment, not unnecessarily believe all women moment. people do want an inquiry in this. for the facts be examined, including joe biden. i set on friday's show that i hope he makes the university of delaware papers available for at least a keyword search for tara reade's name. but what we have seen over the past few days, inconsistencies in tara reade story. and the of decision amongst democrats that they are going to be on joe biden sighed, here. once the obama team got involved, the people who were responsible of the venting of biden, you heard from stephanie, eric holder, david axelrod, et cetera. i believe you are seeing the beginnings of a full hold around joe biden. the american democratic public -- >> harris: i want to step in for just a second before we move on. we are going to run out of time to hear from everybody. what's the difference between believe women and believe all women, per the #metoo movemen

movement? >> jessica: believe limit is to take their word for that something may have occurred, and to investigate it. to believe all women would include someone like julie swetnick, democrats turned against and said the story about brett kavanaugh doesn't hold water. the point is to take a woman's word for it and then investigate a claim and see where the chips may fall. >> harris: ari? >> ari: [laughs] you know what the differences. believe all women who accuse republicans, believe no women who accused democrats. >> jessica: what about al franken, ari? where is al franken? >> ari: these women's groups and democratic politicians who started this whole trend, started the hashtag, have used it as a political lever, as a political weapon. that's all it is. otherwise, why wouldn't they have asked bill clinton to resign? why didn't they turn on bill clinton the entire time he was in office? everybody knew he did what he was denying that he did.

that is entirely what has become of this so-called women's movement. it's a political movement. it's a weapon to bash republicans. >> jessica: can i just quickly ask ari about al franken connect senator al franken has a podcast, not a senate seat now. >> harris: i just want to follow up -- >> ari: i defended him. that should have been up to the people of minnesota to decide whether he should have resigned or not. that was totally a case of the democrats recognizing that they were going to be hypocritical trappetrap, said he had to resid that seem hypocritical trap has got them embracing biden. >> harris: melissa, you and i have talked about, "just tell us the rules." how does it go for everybody? >> melissa: i'm surprised by the democrats who have fallen into the trap of saying, "i've known him forever, he's not capable of this, i've never heard a whiff of this."

one thing we all learned through #metoo 's people can wear a public face and a private face. that it's very hard -- >> harris: amen, sistah. >> melissa: i think the people who have been the best on this are reporters like ronan farrow. i don't know who i would trust to conduct an investigation, because there is sort of political bias everywhere. even a result that is brought by one party won't be believed by the other. because that's the time we live in. even if that report is done fairly. no one really trusts it. what i trust are some of the reporters who have really broken ground on this front and have reported stories that flew in the face of their own personal self interest. i think ronan farrow is one of those people. there's a bunch of others out there. i would wait and see what those kind of thoughtful investigations turn up. >> harris: ari, i do want to come back to you on --

speaker i just wanted to add one piece, harris. when we deal with sexual assault victims and crimes, a lot of times, one thing that really needs to be focused on in this particular case is that tara reade says she filed a complaint. the first thing for due process is to follow that paper trail. we need access to everything possible, to see if he complaint was filed. if that is there, that gives some light as to if something did occur. she u.s. that. there is possible factual evidence out there. >> harris: i'm going to step in. ari, you and i talked about this yesterday on "overtime" about what the secretary kan and cannot turn over. i think it was jessica who said she wanted the delaware papers released so we can see part of his past. what can happen, such that what dr. saphier is talking about, following the paper trail, what can happen to make that occur?

>> ari: i don't know legally what could happen. you would think that if tara reade and joe biden both say to release it, it should be released. we don't know if it even exists. it's a 30-year-old piece of paper that may or may not exist. if it doesn't, it certainly doesn't disprove the allegation. we need to hear from tara reade come the stone wall of silence, the media not interviewing here is amazing. let me go back to senator franken for a minute. the reason democrats could also turn on senator franken as they knew the democratic governor of minnesota would appoint a person to replace him. so that was an easy one for them, just as in virginia they stopped going after the virginia governor when they realize a replacement could be a republican. that is why the politics of this movement is so troubling to me. >> harris: you know what? i'm going to add this. if you have a moment, and all the viewers, too, is a columnist for the cedar rapids gazette who wrote an article saying, "biden should step aside, we can't sacrifice and other women for political gain." jessica, it's an interesting look at what's going on in any

political arena but particularly right now for democrats. i'll get a last word from you, just on what the options are. if biden doesn't get past this, or whatever the case, there's a little bit of damage no matter what. perhaps this case moves right on. but then, how do you pick a woman? you not do that now? what does the future look like? >> jessica: i think the future looks like one where people are a lot more conscious of not jumping to conclusions, the second someone comes forward with an accusation. i will give that, that did happen with some people during the brett kavanaugh hearings. or in the lead up to it when we heard from dr. ford. joe biden has no reason to step aside. as dr. saphier brought up, tara reade says a claim was filed. she said she didn't keep a copy of it. she has told conflicting stories to people. so you have one accuser who said something very serious about what joe biden said, then nothing else. you even had a woman who came out of the end of last weekend said joe biden made inappropriate comments about her

these things will happen. the democratic parties happy with joe biden. they are supportive of him, and there is no reason to push him aside because of that. >> harris: wow, it is just so different from how you guys talked about kavanaugh. you know what? we have to go, laughter visited on another day. the nypd is going after city leaders over enforcement of social distancing. the incident that set it off, and the warning of what will happen if police officers are not able to focus on their core mission. next. ♪ ...little things... ...can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. otezla is associated

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our social fabric, police officers should be allowed to focus on our core public safety mission. if we don't, the city will fall apart before our eyes." melissa, you live in new york city. your thoughts? >> melissa: well, i think the thing that has been frustrating to me from the beginning was that our brave men and women in uniform are sent out to i guess break at people who are standing too close together, and only recently where they allowed to go onto the subway and try to make things safer there. i know that they are very frustrated by having their hands tied in situations where criminals are released quickly back out into the population, that it has been a real struggle. my concern has been it appears they are being sent after people who, when given a ticket, can pay the city a thousand dollars for standing too close to someone else. but they aren't being told to go after the homeless population

who has endangered themselves and are a danger to the community from a public health perspective, but don't have the means to pay a ticket. so i hate it when it at least looks like money into mayor de blasio's coffers is the motivating force. >> harris: that's an interesting way -- i hadn't thought of it that way at all. dr. saphier, i want to talk to about the health, though. melissa talking about what her concerns are. i'm immediately thinking about those cases police aren't answering, that somewhat are being made -- not created, but made more difficult. like domestic violence. i have talked with local police officers here in new jersey, the state you and i both live in, doctor, and they say, "people cooped up as they have been, not being able to move freely, it has created a level of angst, stress, anxiety, and sometimes violence." if they are free to go to those calls and spend that kind of time, it is complicated. what are your thoughts? >> dr. saphier: harris, you're

absolutely right. we have seen an appointment to come upwards, we are seeing increased depression, anxiety, suicide, drug overdose, domestic violence, as well as child abuse. i don't think they should be out patrolling the streets, keeping people off corners. it's a free country, but with freedom comes responsibility, as my dad loves to tell me. people need to be responsible. if we see the uptick in cases, we will have stay-at-home orders again. >> harris: all right, we will be right back with more "outnumbered" in a moment. ♪ it's a new day for veterans all across america.

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last week. if they want governor gretchen whitmer to lift her stay-at-home order, they may be hurting their own cause. ari, i will start with you. you're always the voice of reason in troubled times. do you agree with him? >> ari: good for sean. he's an important voice on an issue like this. he's absolutely right. everybody's for the second amendment, many people are for the first amendment. but you don't need to exercise your second amendment rights with long guns demonstrate first amendment rights. it is too provocative. sean is right, people saw your weapon, they didn't hear your message. it was counterproductive. >> melissa: yeah. jessica? >> jessica: full agreement with ari fleischer and sean hannity, which is something i rarely say. i think it was counterproductive and i understand the people in michigan feel strongly that gretchen whitmer, the governor, has gone too far. certainly the story line ended up being that armed protesters with long guns stormed lansing and the capitol building, and i

would they are concerned about in terms of reopening the economy. >> melissa: yeah. >> ari: , real quick, we understand the concern. people want to get out and get back to work, they don't want to be overpowered by the government. but there's a better way to say it. what is that? >> ari: a better way to say it is to protest, socially distance, to the right things, exercise your first moment rights. the carrying along good with you, we are showing is, "i have the freedom to do whatever i want, so i'm bringing my long gun with me." it's a different message. that's on the message of, "let me get back to my job." just a sheer communications presentation point of view, it's terribly counterproductive. yes, you have that right. you don't always need to exercise it. especially as a show force when you move into a capital to protest. >> jessica: i think it's important -- oh, sorry. just two seconds. it's been highlighted in number of think pieces about what happened that the protesters actually got really lucky that

the police kind of stood there and took it, as it were. on the contrast, if and said did a bunch of armed african-americans, for instance, who had showed up with guns at the capitol building. the police response would have been a lot different. >> melissa: thanks to the couch. here's harris. "outnumbered overtime." ♪ >> harris: the senate is back for its first major session since march, and already a partisan battle is underway over more coronavirus aid and task force testimony. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. democrats right now are pushing for a bill to help cash-strapped states in cities to avoid layoffs. republicans want business liability protection and are leaning on a reopened economy to reduce the need for more spending. all of this, as the white house is limiting testimony and blocking dr. anthony fauci from appearing first before a house panel.