the last couple days. i know your mom likes it. my grandma in new england asked me to. i will make sure one of them gets your mom. they say it's the best coffeecake in the world. one of the guys who runs it, we will try and give it to the team. any other bakers out there, we let coffeecake. >> sandra: now i need some coffee cake. ed, great to be with you this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: president trump is pushing states to reopen as his administration considers winding down the covid-19 task force that has been a staple of their response to the pandemic. the president today tweeted, "the task force will continue indefinitely," however, and people may be added or subtracted as necessary. here's the latest from the president weighing in. >> i think that, as far as the task force, mike pence and the task force have done a great job. but we are now looking at a little bit of a different form, and that form is safety in

opening. we are having a different group set up for that. >> harris: the president added this morning that the team will remain very focused on vaccines and therapeutics. vice president mike pence says he expects agencies like fema to eventually begin spearheading more of the administration's response to the pandemic. you're watching "outnumbered," i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. dr. nicole saphier, new york city physician and fox news contributor. carley shimkus is with us today, fox news headlands 24/7 reporter. in the center seat, the man with the biggest resume daily that you've ever seen. brian kilmeade, cohost of "fox & friends," radio host, and author of "sam houston in the alamo avengers," which comes out a paper book next week! he's "outnumbered." good to see you, everybody. happy wednesday. >> great to be here. >> harris: let's get started with where the task force is

going. what do you think we'll need going forth, this force that has been there to give us daily briefings briefings on testing. if there is a shift to reopening, what would you be looking for? what are you listening for? >> dr. saphier: well, harris, it's a really fine balance right now. the virus is still circulating. if you look at the nation as a whole, a 5-day trend, we see decreasing cases. if you exclude the new york city tri-state area from that, a lot of places throughout the country are still seeing a rise in cases. there's going to be the balance of opening up again while also keeping people safe. because we don't want to have an over rebound because of the state of unrest and the financial insecurity people are facing. we are seeing protesters, people opening up, maybe not necessarily having safety measures in place, because they are not frustrated about not opening. i employ the legislators, not

necessarily the federal ones, but the state level, to give some guidelines. allow businesses to make a decision if they want open, as long as they can adhere to certain hygiene and social distancing measures. >> harris: what i hear you saying, doctor, is he want to see those local and state level officials actually govern. i get it. brian, i come to you just on the notion of politics mixing in. and the criticism the administration sometimes gets on, "well, what are you putting first?" is of the politics, or the economy? you look at the dow down again today. we know the rough ride we've had on main street. what are your thoughts? >> brian: i had a chance to talk to dozens of colors today just on the radio show, and seeing that poll this morning, "the washington post" and the university of maryland poll, the american people by a wide margin, 74%, would go back to jim's. 72% will go back to restaurants. 56% feel comfortable going to a supermarket.

why? because we use to it. you hear all these negative news, but there is a huge push to get going in america. i think, believe it or not, the miami dolphins are the best example. they are waiting for the go-ahead from the president, the commissioner, the governor. instead of just waiting, they said, "if you let me play, i'm going to take my 50000-seat stadium and i'm going to sit dominic seat 16. i will have separate entrances for people to come in. when people leave, they believe like they do in church. island section of the time. people distance, our own plan when it comes to concessions." scientists are in control of stopping the virus. great doctors like dr. saphier are in control of our health. at the same time, businesses are in control of doing this responsively. they have to sell their political people and their customers that they are ready for this. you combine that effort, and we move forward. standing in place will destroy the country in the short term, and obviously the long term. >> harris: it's an interesting

point of view, just in terms of how you use the time gap we have right now between those states and areas that fully open up and what your business looks like. because you can use this time to game it out, as you're saying, brian. i really find some success. dr. saphier was touching on that, too. that's going to be the equivalency, i would imagine, to success. how prepared where you? what did you do with your time leading up? melissa, i think a hairdo in the background. your thoughts? >> melissa: yeah, i was saying "amen" to that. i can't tell you how many emails i received this week from businesses that i frequented here in new york city who have said, "this is our plan to reopen, this is what we're going to do. we're going to spaced people out, we are not going to allow people and at the same time here. we are giving temperature checks. we are going to be doing a thorough cleaning in between every person." whatever it is, they are businesses that are currently shuttered who are taking control of their own future and allaying out for their customers how

they're going to make it safe. most importantly, they are not waiting for the government, the mayor, the governor, the police force, whoever it is, to tell them what the guidelines are going to be. because that what makes america great. this independence, this ingenuity. saying, "this is how i'm building my business back." it may not be for how we got here, it doesn't really matter. i know for me and my family i need to get back on my feet, and i love all the people out there who are taking the onus on themselves and trying to make the customers comfortable and trying to encourage us to come back. i'm sold. >> harris: i think warren buffett calls it "magic," that we do here in america. i love that word. carly, before i come to you, i wanted to watch this together. it's president trump acknowledging similar labs could be lost as a result of reopening the nation. watch. >> it's possible there will be some, because you won't be locked into an apartment or house or whatever it is.

at the same time, we are going to practice social distancing, we're going to be washing hands, we are going to be doing a lot of the things we've learned to do over the last period of time. >> harris: carley, your response to that? >> carley: yeah. well, the reason we shut down the economy to begin with is because we didn't want to overflow and overflowed the hospitals. reopening slowly, the purpose of that is to make sure hospitals have enough beds, and people who do get sick can be cared for. if we didn't do that, there would be a lot of people in hospitals and there would be a huge overflow. the only way that you can reopen is slowly. i think the president, this has become controversial with him, saying the coronavirus task force is going to potentially dissolve. i think a lot of members of the media see dr. fauci as a hero,

and sort of a foil to the president. so they see him as saying, "he's not a agreeing with science anymore." that really isn't the case. the president is trying to juggle both lives and livelihoods, so he's trying to take a 2-pronged approach to this thing. a lot of democrats are pretty uncomfortable with the idea of reopening the economy. i think it has really become sort of a fundamental conversation about political ideologies and political differences. a lot of people right now are desperate, they are on government money right now because of this. that is sort of what liberalism is all about. >> harris: you know, brian, i want to come to you a little bit on what carley was saying, and broaden this out. we can't stay the way we are. you've said that, brian. we can't stay this way forever. as carly pointed out, the goal was to give hospitals, medical professionals, a chance to catch up with the onslaught of people that were hits in the hospitals and the death rate climbing more and more every day. we've been able to flatten the curve in many places around the

country, different rates and levels, of course, depending what they were dealing with specifically. but the next steps have to be that, don't they? they have to be the next steps. see 60 yeah, and the next step is, i give the example of texas, may 8th, they open with salons. you have arkansas, montana says they will open up schools. we've all got to go to school on that. virginia, pretty laid back, california, who is content to keep people off the beach, they saw the unrest that was building and they said, "we will mend that a little bit." i think it's up to these governors to get with their mayors and take their walk down main street. take their drive in the escalade, whatever they need. talk to the shop owners, make sure they are doing these things they need to do to make their main street in their town workable. then you ask people, people gain confidence. if you don't make your business workable, they're not going to go. if you walk into your salon and they are blowing this off, there is no masks, no spacing on the ground, you will probably go to

a different salon. it's called the american choice. it's called the free market. at the same time, science. i will say this, all i'm saying is this is a lot like world war ii, only world war ii we were spurned into action. they were saying, "whatever you do, show me no action. don't do anything you want, do everything you don't want to do, which is stay inside and not be productive. we'll handle it." welcome after seven or eight weeks, we are impressed, but we like to take some control over our own lives back. and we will do it in a smart way. we went to school on it. i think it, for most part, everybody watching right now has upended their lifestyle to be responsible for the person next to them. i think we at least have to have a shot at getting back in the game. >> harris: i like the way you put it, i think that has been the doctors and the medical experts' concern all along, especially when they see people headed down my mike huddled together not doing the things we agreed upon to keep us safe. as we reopen into all the things, i wrote that down.

"american choices," brian has coined a phrase now. as we do all of that, to remind each other. it doesn't take the government to remind us what to do, right? can't we say, "look, i notice you are coughing. cover up buttercup." [laughs] we can do that for each other, right? okay, we'll scoot. we are keeping an eye on the white house, where the president is set to honor america's nurses on the front line. that's right, national nurses day and week. you will see it right here. plus, he salon owner now behind bars for breaking stay at stay-at-home orders. why she told the judge she had no choice. ♪ >> i have to disagree with you, sir, when you say i'm selfish. because feeding my kids is not selfish. ♪ i've got some terrific news for veteran homeowners from newday usa. interest rates have dropped to record lows. newday usa makes it so easy to refinance

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>> melissa: fox news alert, president trump is gearing up to mark national nurses day with a proclamation honoring thousands of nurses who have served on the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic. we are going to bring that to you just as soon we get it. in the meantime, a dallas salon owner who gained national attention for defying stay-at-home orders now spending a week in jail after she refused to apologize for reopening her business before coronavirus restrictions were lifted. shelley luther, who publicly ripped up a cease and desist letter last week, was given a choice by a judge. she could offer an apology for "selfishness," pay fine, and shut down until friday, or she could serve time in jail. but luther defended her actions

to the end. listen. >> your actions were selfish, putting your own interests ahead of those of the community in which you live. >> i have to disagree with you, sir, when you say that i'm selfish, because feeding my kids is not selfish. i have stylists that are going hungry, because they'd rather feed their kids. so, sir, if you think the law is more important than kids getting fed, i am not going to shut the salon. >> melissa: luther also has to pay a $7,000 fine. brian, also with you. to the government go too far in this case? >> brian: absolutely, there's no question prethink about this, in a time in which everyone is letting up a bit out of prison, we are cracking down on the salon owner that wants to get open early while being socially distanced. there are liens on the floor,

lands outside, everyone wearing masks. she does want to go down swinging. like major companies like gold's gym, which is now filing for bankruptcy, she did not see an end in sight. so she opened up. she got a cease and desist order, she ripped it up. other salon started opening. but then you have this judge, who has to come out and give you a lesson and preach to you and tell you how low your being, when all you are actually doing, melissa, is fighting for your family. you're not fighting to be rich. you're not fighting to go on vacation. you're fighting to make a living. i give her credit for not saying, "i'm being selfish." what is she, in fifth grade, and she threw an eraser in class can make being selfish to make selfish for the opportunity to work 60 hours a week and barely get by while paying people's health care and letting hairdressers go out to their customers again? you've got to be kidding me. i feel bad for law enforcement having to enforce these laws.

>> melissa: dr. saphier, we are looking at the picture. we heard the explanation of how she was conducting her business trade from the details we know, obviously, we are not there. doesn't sound like she was putting people at risk? where she was taking the appropriate precautions? >> dr. saphier: melissa, just like when physicians and patience have conversations about risk versus benefit of certain treatments, it's the same thing. i don't believe government and legislaturelegislators to intert themselves, and consumerism. as we spoke in the earlier block, it is up to the business to put forth something, measures to have those consumers come in and actually feel safe. if this woman, with her salon, was doing what she could to keep people safe, whether it's increased ventilation, wearing a mask, limiting the amount of people in there, then if she decides to open, people have the choice to come in. that is a decision, the risk versus benefit. i have to agree with brian, i do not think this is selfish for

this woman to say, "i want to feed my kids." that's part of the problem with some of these authoritarian measures being taken right now. as long as she was not doing anything that was negligent, which it doesn't seem like she was, at that point that is when we need to start being more creative in allowing these businesses to open up. as long as they are doing it in a safe manner and not putting people at risk. it doesn't seem like she was. >> melissa: so, senator ted cruz from the great state of texas saying, "seven days in jail for cutting hair, this is nuts." government officials don't get to order citizens to apologize to them for daring to earn a living." carley, that is sort of where this story comes down for me, it's not like she was a hospital worker or an urgent care worker. when people came in, they didn't have a choice whether or not to be customers. you're kind of they are of necessity. this is something where she's following the guidelines, and people have a choice whether

they want to go in and risk getting their hair cut, or not. it's not a school, it's not someplace where -- everything about the situation is voluntary. that makes a difference paid what do you think? >> carley: just as she was getting sentence, governor greg abbott was announcing that salons could open this friday. which is the ultimate irony and totally proves her point. it sounds like this judge was on a power trip, because he asked her to apologize to him. when she didn't, he sentenced her to jail. i don't know what's going on with texas and hair salons, but also in laredo, texas, there were two undercover police officers who made fake appointments with hairstylists. when they showed up, the issue them a fine, which is just an embarrassing use of police time. whenever there is a pandemic or a crisis or any sort of situation like this, there is going to be abuses of power and government overreach paid boy, oh, boy, is this an example of that. >> melissa: yeah. in the meantime, starting today

in massachusetts people over the age of 2 must wear a face mask while out in public when social distancing isn't possible, or risk of $300 fine. but some communities in the state are taking it a step further, threatening to issue fines of up to $1,000. harris, what do you think about this? at a time when money is so tight? to go out and fine people. or does it make a point? >> harris: if these are the agreed-upon guidelines in those areas, and that's with the officials are saying and they are willing to adjudicate that, you can put that in one lane. those of the facts. but here are some other facts for you. there are a lot of things that are really needed right now. community service would be amazing, wouldn't it? wouldn't it be amazing? that if you're going to fine somebody, let them keep what few pennies they might still have in their pocket, because they haven't worked for so long, some of them. and they are still waiting to get dollars from the government, some of them. that's reality.

why not, "you know what? we will ask you to collect some things for a food bank. socially distance while you do it and wear a mask." some people haven't been able to get their hands on masks. what do they do? they make them homemade. we've seen our u.s. surgeon general take a t-shirt, cut it apart, and teach you how to do that online. you can watch that on youtube from the surgeon general adams. so there's a lot of ways to comply. at the end of the day, gosh, where are people's hearts in this? they are not doing this as noncompliance, because it's fun. at some level, they feel a dire necessity to go out and do the things they need to do. again, may not have a mask, may not be creative enough to do it. let's teach. if they are then still defiant, you can put behind it all of those legal pinpoints to say to people, "you defied, you defied, you defied. three strikes, you're out." do have room in our hearts in society to give people another chance? i guess that's the question.

>> melissa: dr. saphier, my question would be, what if somebody had covid-19 two months ago and they are over it? at that point, can't they not infect other people or get infected themselves? can you find them for not wearing a mask? >> dr. saphier: actually, melissa, we don't know if the presence of antibodies in your system does confer immunity. we are suspecting it does come up with her at short-term or long-term or any immunity at all, we still don't know. one interesting thing about massachusetts is they are coming up with this law, they are fining people not wearing masks. similar to seat belt laws, we are to help people, "it'll save your life to wear a seat belt," but it wasn't until there was a financial penalty because of the ticket that people started doing it and lives were saved. >> harris: good point. he threw massachusetts is putting together one of the strongest contact tracing anywhere, and that's what we need moving forward. to be able to test, contact traits, and i sleep. he is my suggestion for massachusetts. don't give a financial penalty

come just like harris is saying. they are looking for thousands of contact tracing volunteers. how about if you see people out there, you find them with community service, helping the volunteer and contact trace. which will lower the risk of infection t to the entire community. >> melissa: brian, what do you think about that? >> harris: amen. >> brian: i think a couple things. number one, for a month we were told masks don't matter, whatever you do, don't get a mess. then we were told it'll be nice to have a mask, and then we are told, "you better have a mask." unless you go to ohio. governor dewine says, "i will make you or a mask, but the more i thought of it, you should wear a mask." people are sitting in shelter in place, watching the prisons fall apart, haven't seen my family members or senior server. it doesn't seem in many cases that politicians are giving the best advice possible. can i add, that really natural thing, wearing a mask. it is for dr. saphier, who we will look back and wonder why we are so hard for her to agree with me. she seemed very reluctant to agree with me two and half

minutes go. it's so hard for her to admit, like carley dead, i was actually right. >> carley: did i admit that? >> melissa: ouch! [laughter] >> harris: i'm uncomfortable! >> brian: i will say, guys, i wish people could have a conversation with people. i walked into an operation every day, i had a mask in my pocket, did not realize. "can i give you a mask in medical school go, "oh, that's right." i put it on. it doesn't have to be headbutting. telling people, "you better do this or i will find you a thousand dollars," i don't know if you've been to fenway park, those are pretty hard-nosed people. and you're telling them to alter their lifestyle to get along with this new proclamation. there's going to be some pushback in this country. there are other countries that are like sheep. not in america. >> dr. saphier: can i talk to brian real quick, what comes of this masks? one thing, the very beginning,

you have to remember, we were going not only on wrong but fraudulent data that came out of china pray the world health organization told us this was not human transmission. we finally come with our own research, realized the virus could be aerosolized, which is why with a asymptomatic spring we found with our own data, that's why we decided to increase recommendations of wearing masks, until he could get a treatment in the vaccine. >> brian: gotcha. >> melissa: all we are saying is that the rules change a lot, and because we get new information, we understand pay but it can be hard to keep up. a newly obtained letter from the office of former president obama ripping into senate republicans over their investigation into former vice president joe biden and his son, hunter, regarding ukraine. we'll tell you exactly what that letter says, next. ♪ i had a heart problem.

i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously. >> harris: fox news has

learned to the office former president barack obama privately criticized efforts by senate republicans to investigate former vice president joe biden and his son, hunter. remember, they were accused of the business dealings in ukraine that got a lot of heat. in response to a november 2019 request by senators chuck grassley and ron johnson for any records relating to the issue, obama's office sent this letter in march. "the current request is not a proper use. it arises out of efforts by some, actively supported by russia, to shift the blame for russian interference in the 2016 election to ukraine in the interest of countering the misinformation campaign underlying this request, we are prepared on this occasion to provide the committee acces access." brian kilmeade, this seems like it's way in the weeds, but it's not. it's being talked about quite a bit today. why is that? what is that? >> brian: a couple things. i did not know that, but in the

past barack obama has given 12,880 pages to people who want to go back in the records for whatever reason. but ron johnson and senator grassley, i wouldn't say they are very polarizing politicians. they are, to me, they might be conservative, but they are as upstanding as the day is long. they say, "we just want to find out what happened and what was going on between biden and hunter come if anything." keep in mind, we found out there was communication in the biden camp in this obama administration about the concern they have with joe biden running ukrainian operations and representing the president's ukrainian policy while his son was on that board. so some of that communication can be valuable if we want to get to the bottom of things. but he decided, the former president, that this was part of a russian disinformation campaign? i did not know that was a judgment. you have to examine the reason for the request and decide whether it's worthy of your time. that's very interesting.

>> harris: yeah, you know, carley, it does kind of come down to -- brian is saying it, i will say in this way, very bluntly -- you can ask a question. it was the former president obama trying to push back on simply asking the question for the senators johnson and grassley? you know, wanting to look at the records. what really happened with the biden's per ukraine, particularly hunter? is there something wrong with the question? >> carley: well, i think it comes down to obama defending the obama administration, which really should come as no surprise. keep in mind, he did agree to release these records. so the senate can continue their investigation into hunter and joe biden. although he did so in a begrudging fashion. i don't really think he would have done that if he knew there was going to be anything in these records that would hurt biden's presidential campaign. harris, just talking about this reminds me of the prepandemic

days. it almost shows how quick the new cycle is, we all thought the presidential race was going to be about ukraine and russia and now it's going to be about china and the pandemic, and quite possibly something a little bit darker for joe biden, as well. >> harris: melissa? >> melissa: well, i think that we should call nancy pelosi, because when you go back and you look at what impeachment was all about, it was for soliciting foreign interference in the 2020 election from ukraine. i want to make sure i said it exactly right. that was the charge. but if you listen to president obama, he says the call to ukraine, as it's explained in this memo, was about the 2016 election and trying to change the conversation around where the interference came from. so, i don't know whose theory of the impeachment crime you're going with. it sounds like president obama

disagrees with all of the democrats that voted for impeachment. >> harris: wow. brian, last thought? >> brian: my last thought is, between nancy pelosi and barack obama, it's very interesting. it donald trump decided, "i'm no longer going to answer any questions on impeachment of a pandemic," like nancy pelosi said she wouldn't answer any more questions on the sexual assault charge against joe biden, and barack obama says, "i've decided i'm not playing the game of what really happened during the 2016 election," there be all types of blowback. but both these leading democratic politicians can shut it down, and there's almost no blowback. we're just having a discussion about it. every other channel would be leading with this in another circumstance. it just makes you wonder back to carley's point. what are you hiding? if there's nothing to hide, put it to rest. let them see it. you are to give up 12,000 pages. what's a few more? >> harris: all right. u.s. leaders are ramping up pressure on china over the

nation's handling of the covid-19 pandemic, amid new findings that china has launched a punishment campaign against its own citizens suffering from the virus, and their family members. wait until you hear what they are doing to their own people. it's a communist nation. ♪ veterans, how can one phone call save you $2000 a year?

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pressure on the international community to hold the communist country accountable. this, as fox news is learning the chinese government is targeting its own citizens who report contracting new cases. speaking about being infected, or even trying to mourn the death of coronavirus victims. the crackdown includes online censorship, police interrogations, and threats to lawyers against initiating lawsuits. this is just staggering to me, brian. what is your reaction? >> brian: not surprising. staggering, not surprising. remember, when this first happened, they were physically dragging people into their homes and locking them in. remember, these are the people that basically killed the doctors that sounded the alarm. this is really because, for the first time, i understand, before they kicked out most of the western media. people in china starting to get so busy on social media with freedom of speech phrases that they really couldn't be controlled by their own country.

we don't have a window into what's happening, here, but this has really shed a light onto the potential unrest against that government. which is their number one fear. now we find out there's more of a crackdown. yesterday, just to give some perspective, the u.s. ambassad ambassador, the chinese ambassador to the u.s., came out and lectured us on why we should not blame them for launching this poison on the 180 countries, especially our own. imagine that audacity. so, not surprising. >> melissa: meanwhile, a chinese spokesperson pushing back on this, saying, "mr. "mr. pompeo spoke repeatedly on the virus' origin, but has never presented evidence, because there was no such thing." so i think this question should be left to scientists and medical control experts to answer, and the politicians should not keep lying on this issue for the needs of domestic

politics." dr. saphier, what do you think of that logic? >> dr. saphier: you know, melissa, it's interesting. because any time we hear something from mike pompeo or even president trump that seems kind of out of left field for us, there's usually something behind it. maybe they've seen a report or there is some sort of investigation that has led them to have that belief. we do know they have concluded this was not a genetically modified virus, i did it come fm a leak within that laboratory can make as possible. did it occur within nature? it's possible. it could be either one of those. the air seems to have been some mishandling of this virus early on with china, which is why we had such a large global pandemic. we are in a state of international travel during the chinese lunar new year. it's a highly contagious virus. it's not so surprising that it did get out of china. the bottom line is that they kept information great it was because of all this censoring that we were not informed and we were not able to make choices to lock down our borders even harder. as brian alluded to, dr. li was

one of the first whistle-blowers, a physician who died, and was trying to sound the alarm. he was censored and penalized because of it. >> melissa: harris, can you imagine cracking down on victims and people who have lost loved ones, censoring their speech and how they can mourn? >> harris: i think if you look up the definition of "communist country," so the things with be right there. there's not a lot of shocked this is going on, melissa. the shock comes when you look at the facts. they are startling, and they are very hurtful. we know that they have lied about the numbers of dead in china. you can clean up and say, "well, they misinformed the world." i don't know the difference, but okay, let's just go there. first it was four times the number is wrong. and this was only about a week ago, that's how fast these new cycles are going. then it was ten times, then it was 20 times the amount of the

initial numbers of dead. now we learn that $420, the equivalency of that in china, is what the communist party will pay somebody not to mourn at a funeral. let us oft cut the cost of burying the dead, if you just keep it down. just keep it low. what are they trying to hide? >> melissa: the ab. carley? >> carley: this could have been a regional crisis. to add to harris' list of facts, they cut off domestic travel, they allowed international travel, they also lied about the fact that this is human to human transmittable disease. i truly hope the united states or europe comes up with a vaccine before china. if this lab theory is to be believed, they were studying sars because they wanted to prove to the world they had more information on this disease than us. so they created this problem. if they corner the market on a virus, they will have gotten what they wanted all along. so we are in a space race of

sorts with china right now. that is a critical element. being able to find a vaccine before china does. >> melissa: yet. speaker nancy pelosi is shutting down questions over the sexual assault allegations against joe biden, saying she believes the former vice president's denial and is done talking about it. it's over. is this more proof of a double standard when it comes to believing women? >> do you view this as a closed issue? what is your response? >> well, it is for me. i have said i am proud to support joe biden our president. he's a good musical ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete,

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>> harris: well, it is a political hot potato. democrats continuing to grapple with the sexual assault allegations against joe biden from former staffer tar tara re. now nancy pelosi is doubling down and are supportive biden. >> i believe him when he says he doesn't happen, but i also believe when he says to let them look into the records. i think that's what they should do. but i'm not going to answer this question again.

i will just say i have every confidence that joe biden will be a great president of the united states. >> harris: you know, before we talk about this, i like to put history with facts in the present. can we roll what we have from what nancy pelosi said during the brett kavanaugh fight? about all women, in 2018. watch. >> we are here to show our respect for all women who have a case, to have it respected, with due process. to investigate, to find the truth, not fear it. >> harris: brian kilmeade? >> brian: i'm going to use the back of my hand, as a salute to nancy pelosi. it's unbelievable that hypocrisy. this is two years ago, not 20 years ago. talking about bill clinton. it's unbelievable, that she thinks -- and she was allowed to get away with it on msnbc. "i will not answer that question

anymore." i just heard from donald trump, he doesn't want to talk about the pandemic anymore. he also doesn't want to talk about the impeachment. i would he tell mike i wonder ifyou have ae topics. i don't know in the history of the country come if you can decide not to entertain topics. and you know enough to know that you are 100% right? i don't know anything about tara reade. i know this, ronan farrow was working on the story. the last time he wrote a story, not only did it sell a lot of books, it told a lot of truth and a lot of people walked the plank for that. some went to prison. >> harris: well, and is in fact, carley, what we are looking for? we are looking for the truth and all that. it doesn't matter what your political stripes are, right? we are in the middle of that #metoo moment, still, i would say. as these cases pop. it's happening over at another network, too. look, that's what we should all be after. the truth. that deserves an investigation. i know someone had floated out,

"have the dnc do it." i don't think that would be politically neutral enough. ronan farrow, maybe some others will look into it. >> carley: just that hypocrisy here, harris, it is so stunning. i think a lot of politicians who said believe all women two years ago are having serious buyers remorse now. for elizabeth o were to say his answers are credible and interesting is one of the most stunning i've ever experienced. i'm not saying he's innocent or guilty, but i'm saying that's a far cry from "believe all women," especially considering how supreme court justice brett kavanaugh was treated. where are they not only went after him, they tried to ruin the lives of people associated with them, as well. >> harris: melissa? >> melissa: well, i just think it's amazing, because i thought we had moved past a place where you say, "okay, i know this person better than that. i just don't think they are capable of doing this thing." one thing we learned through the whole #metoo thing is some people are good at having one

public face and doing something else in private. that's what we learned. why would you then sit there and say, "because i know him, i believe him?" no, the whole point is you are supposed to investigate it. if somebody has the courage to come forward, you investigate their claims. we don't presume that either side is telling the truth, or either side is lying, ever. now, if somebody has the courage to come forward and say it, you investigate it. then you can decide who you believe. then you decide, based on looking at the people, hearing what they have to say, what evidence comes forward, it's just ignorant and backward to say, "i'm going to come at face value, take this person's word for it." we don't do that anymore. >> harris: will be back with more "outnumbered" moment. if you're the spouse of a military veteran, here's money saving news from newday usa. your spouse's va streamline refi benefit lets you easily refinance when mortgage rates drop. and they just dropped to the lowest in newday's history.

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and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can take care of things like groceries before they worry about their insurance or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at usaa.com/coronavirus >> melissa: thanks to brian kilmeade, "sam houston in the alamo avengers" out in paperback next week.

get it while it's hot. thanks to the rest of the virtual couch, as well. here's harris. ♪ >> harris: the 2020 presidential presidential race is looming large as the president is touting progress against the coronavirus during a recent trip to a key state. you're watching "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. president trump's official trip to an arizona factory had the feel of a campaign style event, complete with music and talk of his 2016 victory there. this, as joe biden remained stuck at his home, forced to campaign remotely. here is president. >> i'm thrilled to be here. in the event has exceeded arizona. i love arizona. [cheers and applause] had some good moments here, especially on election day. it was a good moment, right? my