tucker is up next, good night, everybody. ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." we spent months nowng assessing the coronavirus pandemic, mostly from a medical standpoint.on we now know a lot more about the virus than we did back in march and february and we are grateful for that, facts are always better than speculation. but it's possible that in doing that we spent maybe too little time considering the rest of the country, the many millions of americans who will never face serious health risks from this virus. so the question is, and we should be asking this a lot, how are they doing? well, more than 30 million a of them are now unemployed. 30 million. that is so many people that it's hard to digest what it means, or what it's going to mean fivest

years from now. for some context, that is double the job loss from the great recession of 2009. that took us ten years to recover from, many never did recover.y in fact the entire middle class never recovered, so how long will 30 million take? it's a terrifying. in fact, it's too scary for many of our leaders to consider. it implicates their judgments, their policies, so they're determined to ignore that question and they're even more determined that you ignore it too. you're absolutely not allowed to think about that, much less talk about it. how many times in the last week have you clicked on a video a friend sent only to discover it has been deleted by youtube, google, because it criticized eepeople in charge to would nevr seen anything like this in the history of our country. it used to be a free place, we brag about it, but it's happening, and not just online. the police commissioner of new york announced this week that political protests have been banned in america's biggest

city. how long have they been banned? well, for as long as his boss bill de blasio says their band. so it could be a while. it's nice when voters aren't allowed to criticize you. if the commissioner explained that's the law now. "these are laws that if and passed down through executive order." yeah, got that? passed through executive order. but wait, by definition, executive orders aren't passed. no legislature signs off on them. they are ordered. that's why their orders. whatever, details, shut up. you think some civil libertarian judge somewhere would do something about all of this. new're always inventing rights for illegal aliens. usually the right to free stuff at your expense, there are a lot of those. maybe we could get some of thosn rights too, but no, you're just an american, do what you're told. shelley luther just learned that lesson in the hardest way. luther owns a salon in the city of dallas. in march she closed her business, the government told

her to. she lost all of her income when she shut it down because that's what our leaders demanded. and then she waited and she waited and she waited. and a month later, her business was still closed, and she was out of money. finally she decided she had no choice, her back was against a wall on april 24th to reopen her salon. the government warned her not to do that. they sent her a citation. she did it anyway. >> now the salon owner shelley luther vowed to remain open in defiance of state orders. tearing up the citations she received. >> i could be used as an example or they'll go away, or i don't know. i'm not going to shut down. >> tucker: i can be used as an example, luther said. she was assuming that other business owners in dallas might follow her lead. but the government took notice, they wanted her to be an example too, but in a very different way. police arrested luther. they dragged her before a dallas county judge called eric

moye. that was her bad luck. he is a deeply irresponsible person. he is a political hack. he's a self-described democratic party activist. he once circulated a chain letter denouncing supreme court justice clarence thomas as a race traitor. he lectured shelley luther about how she was a bad person. watch. >> your actions were selfish. putting your own interests ahead of those of the community in which you live. that they disrespected the executive orders of the state, the orders of the county in this city. c >> tucker: what a pompous fool. but he's got a lot of power, he's a judge, and shelley luther was sitting before him. luther, to her enormous credit,g was not intimidated.. instead of groveling, apologizing and begging forgiveness, which is what he wanted, she told the judge what was so obviously true. for people who don't have salaries that are guaranteed by taxpayers, this lockdown as it

continues has been a catastrophe.i' because feeding my kids is not >> i have to disagree with you sir, when you say that i'm selfish. because feeding my kids is not selfish. that are going hungry because they would rather feed their kids so if you think the law is more important than kids getting fed, then please go ahead with their decision, but i'm not going to shut thee salon. >> tucker: feeding my kids is not selfish. he was unmoved by this. he's not worried about feeding his kids. he went to harvard law school. 2007 article inub "the washington post" describes this man as someone "with a weaknesswh for cuban cigars and the finest steaks." what a poser. as a judge, he has continued to collect the salary of about $150,000 draw the shutdown. hehe can take that forever. he can afford all the finest steaks he wants at least until meat supplies or not.en he sentenced luther to a week behind bars.

that's what's going on in dallas tonight. small business owners who are going under, these are people with employees who are struggling to buy food, are being punished for the crime of earninggs a living by authoritarian buffoons, goons were living off their tax dollars. how's that for an arrangement?t well, and this is the best part, actual criminals are going free. three weeks ago, the stated -- city of dallas began releasing more than a thousand inmates from the guy jail, somewhere in for serious felonies. authority said they had no choice, they had to save the inmates from the virus, the very same virus that shelley luther will likely be exposed to in jail where she is now. for trying to earn an honest living. it's hard to believe any of this is real. unfortunately it is real.el it's happening right now. luther's attorney, we're happy to have him on, thanks so much for coming on. so your client is in jail right now? >> that's correct. he remanded her to the sheriff's department while we were in the court yesterday.

>> tucker: so she was such a threat to the city of dallas that there couldn't be a periode between conviction and sentencing, she just had to go right to jail? >> that's correct, because she committed the actual crime of heresy against the city of dallas and the oligarchy that decided that real criminals could go to jail, but people who were heretics -- people who are real criminals could be let out, but the heretics could go to jail. he demanded that she admit she was being selfish and being offensive and apologized everybody. he actually said, i want you to apologize for being selfish and so, of course she wasn't being selfish, she was just trying to earnngrn a dollar. like all of these people that are hurting. so all these salons come all these people, they only get paid when they do haircuts. their contractors, there's no government funds for those guys. even shelley, who's the salon owner, could have access to some funds, which she received recently, but her business family have no funds and she only received that recently.

>> tucker: so this buffoon hack judge, really the most entitled person in dallas -- let me just ask your question since you are an attorney. she violated the law, but my understanding is laws are passed by legislatures, by elected officials. this so-called law is just a decree? i don't understand about the law and how you can go to jail because he violated it. >> well, we have a law that says that you can be enjoined from breaking an ordinance. so then we have a mayor that says i'm going to announce the fourth amendment emergency regulations and have the force and effect of laws. they're not laws, but that's what they are. so what we've seen, tucker, is that this emergency has exposed all the tiny tyrants for who they are. they got this glimpse of power and man they're going to show everybody exactly what to do. and so if you don't follow exactly what they do, here's a man that says -- and we can take -- we can say that we understand the virus is serious

without saying look, we're all going to be walking dead zombies next month, right? we can do what is reasonable. and so this man believes, well, it's an epidemic and we have to do something, but he's effective -- if he believesel that, than what he's doing is he's saying you get a potential death sentence because i'm sending you to the jail that we are kicking our criminals out of. serious business. >> tucker: i have a feeling if she was here illegally from another country, there would be zero that she would be in jail right now. we're just getting word that lieutenant governor of texas dan patrick has offered to take her place in jail to pay or $7,000 fine, we do think that would be a sufficient offering for moses over there on your bench or not? >> no, no. she has to bend the knee. that's what he wants. and in the order, even in the order for contempt that he says, ift you will but expressed contrition and apologize, then we could look at doing this, then we can fix this. the idea that dan patrick or

anybody could take her place is not going to be sufficient. they want her to bend the knee, nothing else will suffice. >> tucker: is that allowed? i don't know -- i am not that familiar with the texas legal code, but is there a law in texas that says you have to grovel before morons were wearingg robes? is that part of the law there or something he made up from the bench? >> i can't say that too much, but i can tell you that i've never seen that. i've never seen it and i for judges that are mad at me, but i'veve never had a judge say you must admit how selfish are being in order to grant -- for me to grant you mercy. he didn't have to do that. he could've said look, i know you're just try to earn a living but i've got to enforce the law. some going to hit you with $500 a day and let you go. he could have done that. but that wasn't what he wanted. he wanted -- he wants the contrition, he wants that apology. >> tucker: he is like a powerd- drunk third-grade teacher, can't chew the gum unless you have

enough for everybody, was that part of his order too can don't answer that, pure speculation. thank you for coming on-site and good, good luck to your client. more than good luck, we are rooting for her. this is an awful thing that's happened and i hope that it awakens people to what's happening a lot of places. >> we filed an application for writ of habeas corpus a few minutes ago, we are hoping that the supreme court of texas will take action. >> tucker: i hope so too, great to see you tonight, thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> tucker: well, the reason 30 million people are out of work, the reason we are sending small business owners to jail, is that supposedly it is essential to saving an enormous number of lives, millions will die without it. in the state of new york though, governor andrew cuomo was unambiguous about why we're doing it, watch this. >> stay-at-home! when i issued the stay-at-home order, it wasn't "it would be nice if you did." it is a mandate. -astay-at-home. if you're a nonessential worker, stay-at-home. if you leave the house, you're

exposing yourself to danger. >> tucker: yeah, his brother cnn anchor was out checking on his second property but the governor said this very confident -- we don't want to pick on enter, future president cuomo, every public official pretty much said the same thing. why were they saying this? what science was it based on? not very much it turns out. coronavirus was a new disease that nobody really understood the course nobody in history has ever tried a mass quarantine before, so we really didn't know, but we went forward anyway, the lockdown happen, the lights are at stake, shut up and obey! irbut today, and you may have missed this, but it's worth knowing about, governor cuomo revealed something new and something pretty shocking. new york's coronavirus cases are not coming from those still going to work amid the pandemic, those brave people. they're mostly coming from those stwho are stuck at home. >> this is a surprise. overwhelmingly the people were at home, 18% of the people came from nursing homes. less than 1% came from jail or

prison, 2% came from the homeless population, 2% from other facilities, but 66% of the people were at home, which is shocking to us. >> tucker: first of all, and you got to be honest about it, good for governor cuomo for admitting that. that's always the first step. so what do we make of this at home? for all questions like this invariably returned to the man who knows, fox medical expert dr. marc siegel. hey, doctor. >> tucker, this is a huge event for public health in new york. they looked at -- new york state looked at 113 hospitals over a three-day period and as you just said, they found that 56% of the people who were admitted to hospital were already sheltering at home, were elderly, were unemployed, or retired. 90% -- get this, 90% weren't even walking around, they weren't using public transportation, t they were usig limos, they weren't using taxes, they were going out at all.. so i want to tell you from a

public health point of view how they spread this. it's the way we've always felt,u what doctors feel, by sneezing, by coughing. by being too close and having symptoms and spreading. not by touching the subway pole. by the way, new york city subway system is being shut down overnight to completely clean w and disinfect the subway cars. what's the message here? governor cuomo, you originally said may 15th. i have a message for you. let our people go. let some of our people get back to work. transit workers are not spreading this, people at work are not spreading this. i'm not saying open the restaurants, i'm not saying opey the bars, i'm not saying open sporting events, but i'm saying working -- working is what our economy needs and for public health we can do it. social distancing. tucker, areas of new york city downstate, areas where they are not necessarily following social distancing,no that's where it's spreading and that's what

hospitalizations are coming from, but we flatten to the curve here, we'll have 600 hospitalizations over the past day. it's going way down, i can tell you from my own hospital, going way down. that's flattening the curve, it's time to loosen up, governor. >> tucker: i've never understood and i wish we had more time, but hope you'll come back and we can explore -- why we didn't at the outset focus more of our money and attention on the most vulnerable populations, the elderly, the compromised. maybe there's a reason for that but it seems like maybe we should have done that. >> we should have. yes we should have done that and that starts with nursing homes, which we didn't payt anyny attention to and it's a disgraci and yes, people that were at home i'm retired and more vulnerable needed our attention first, absolutely. >> tucker: that's exactly right. doctor siegel, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: we've learned a lot of lessons about how our government works and doesn't work over the past couple of months. what we learned about how the private sector works?

tlethe ceo of a pharmaceutical company joins us with an interesting perspective on it. next. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> tucker: the coronavirus pandemic appears to be, at least because right now, weaning. it has killed many, many of our fellow americans. and our leaders reaction to it have also learned a lot. but causing incalculable damage to our economy. we can offset the damage if we can learn from all of this and translate those lessons into a new way of running the country. vivek ramaswamy is the founder and ceo of a pharmaceutical

company, also serves on ohio's coronavirus response team. happy to have him on tonight. vivek, thanks so much for coming on. so you're in -- you run a pharma company, what if you learn from all of this? >>at one thing i'd like to start with, i'd actually like to salute my wife and her colleagues who have been treating patients on the front. line. we were chatting earlier, we had a baby in february, my wife of course was a doctor and face from of most difficult choices of her life, whether to take maternity leave with our son or to go back to the hospital at a peak this pandemic. and she decided to go back out of a sense of duty and was infected with covid and has now been separated from our baby son. the first thing i got to say -- our health care providers on the frontline are true national heroes. but i'm happy to talk to more about the other lessons we learned as well in the therapeutic landscape. >> tucker: i certainly am amazed by the decision that she

made, good for her and for all of those people.e. i wonder if -- this is going to change the country, i mean, we are all agreed on that. the question is how. what kind of country we wind up when the smoke clears do you think? >> i'm speaking as a citizen here and not as just a company leader developing a drug. i think that this crisis gives us a rare opportunity to rediscover our shared american identity. as a country, we spent the lasti decade celebrating our diversity and our differences. in the next decade, i think o we ought to use this as a book end to celebrate this once again, our commonality as a people. in some ways -- the aren't micro aggressions that one group

commits against other but rather the macro aggressions that we faced together as one people and as best we know, covid-19 can infect you whether you're male or female, whether you're black or white, whether gay or straight, democrat or republican for that matter. and i think in any moment of national crisis it's important to ground ourselves in what we actually share in common. we do hear the siren song of itauthoritarianism. i heard you talking about earlier on the show. we are starting to hear it now. during the great depression i think history teaches us a lot. some people complemented the efficiency of nazi germany. during the cold war when the t ussr beat us to space, some americans preached h about the dash we're starting to hear whispers that america could succeed but be more like china. in my view, nothing could be further from t the truth and i think that america is definedthy our ability to resist that siren song. i hope we come out out of this crisis with a renewed sense of that shared american identity. not around our shared genetics, but instead around our shared values and that's what i'd like to see post-covid america. >> tucker: amen.

i think it's a beautiful sentiment. not overstating it, i really think that's the most important thing we can learn from all of this, people of all kinds are dying and they wonder what -- people of all kinds are also uniting and i wonder where we are not hearing that more often. >> we have to see the stage -- right now people are in a place where they're still not sure about what the path to normalcy looks like and speaking from the seat that i'm in, maybe i can just offer a little bit of a perspective there, where, look, i think that is great, i think people are holding out hope for that. i don't think our national strategy can depend on it but i do think that small hits along the way i can give a better sense of hope so that we arehe able to be strengthened by this. we saw in the last couple of weeksau and emergency use authorization for a new drug by the fda. keep in mind this is something a for people to keep in mind, the fact that for over 80% of the people infected with this coronavirus, it's actually no worse than the flu. the thing that distinguishes this virus is that up to 20% of infectedat patients require hospitalization and the thing

that kills people going to the hospital is often the immune response and not the presence of the virus itself, so if we can get some just base hits along the way, if you could just address that for the severe patients in the hospital, then our whole response to this pandemic could actually become much more measured, similar to that of the flu, even though that's a moderate proposal, it's also potentially more achievable in the near term and waiting for a vaccine in the long run, so to answer your question, i'm an optimist. i think if you -- if you base hits along the little get us on track to the right attitude. >> tucker: so really quickly, 30 seconds, you're saying that if we had a effective treatment that helped some significant percentage of the 20% who wind up hospitalized, that our whole outlook would change and you think that would happen? >> i think from a societal standpoint, i can't tell you which drug is going to be right now, that's why we do clinical trials, but i think that there are enough shots on goal that yes, i think that the likely nearer term achievable goal of the vaccine is the holy grail, but there's never been a vaccine

developed that i'm aware of in lessve than two years so treatmt that addressed the people are hospitalized and really change the game here even if they're not a cure for all people who are infected, that could reallyi change the cost-benefit analysis. at>> tucker: coming from someone who runs a drug company, that's really hopeful news. vivek, thanks so much for joining us tonight, good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: so when he was vice president, joe biden fought hard to rollback rights for students who were accused of sexual misconduct and he did roll those rights back, more than anybody else in the last century. but now, because everything is irony, biden's presidential campaign hinges on making sure that those rights apply to him. we will tell you how that works after the break. ♪ how

>> tucker: we've been bringing you regular updates on the joe biden sex abuse allegations and looking into it as deeply as we can, the truth is as of right now we still have no real idea what happened between biden and his former staffer tara reade. the alleged assault took place more than 25 years ago, there were no other witnesses. her account may be entirely accurate. but as we told you last night and baffled some viewers, there are real and troubling inconsistencies both in her story itself and in her behavior.ly as recently three years ago, she enthusiastically praised joe biden on social media for his concern about the abuse and

mistreatment of women. think about that. at the least it is very strange behavior for tara reade given what she now claims occurred. over the years, she has also accused others of abuse. at one point she wrote that her ex-husband was being investigated by the fbi in the exdisappearances of two women. we checked and we found no record that her former husband was ever charged for murder. so that's where we are. but why are we telling all of this? well, first, because it's true. the facts, and facts are hard to keep track of during election fear, especially this year, there's a bewildering amount of lying and all of us ought to do everything we can to fight against it and to remain rooted in reality. that's always the key. but there's another reason that this story is significant, the nodetails matter. joe biden has been accused of a sex crime by a person who at least now cannot establish that it happened. that's what biden is still in the race. in our system is not enough to claim that someone is guilty, youin got to prove it.

or the person cannot be punished. that rule is not a feature of our justice system. it is the whole point of our justice system. the presumption of innocence prevents america from becoming a police state. the tone of the main reasons so many people move here from around the world. they want to live in a country where you can't be denounced and imprisoned without evidence. so you have to think that right now, joe biden has never been more grateful to live in america. without our long tradition of fairness and protections like due process, joe biden would have been forcibly retired the day that tara reade gave her first media interview. and yet here's the irony bomb. no politician in america has done more to undermine those same protections than joe biden has. as vice president, biden led president obama's task force on. campus sexual assault. under his direction, did administration ordered thousands of american colleges to implement new standards for ewhandling claims of sexual harassment and assault. those standards dramatically

reduced the burden of proof. they made it far harder for the accused to defend themselves. it wasn't by accident, that was their intent. many schools adopted standards that did not consider students innocent until proven guilty.s in other words, under pressure from joe biden, they inverted the u.s. constitution. their new standard was in fact the medieval standard. prove you're innocent we will crush you. and many were crushed. here's just one example. in 2014 at the university of family in ohio, two students had separate encounters with a woman athe a party. multiple witnesses later said the encounters were consensual. later, bothnd half students were accusedon of sexual assault. within 48 hours, the school found them guilty and expelled them. the school then issued a campuswide announcement proclaiming the students had been expelled. their names and their picturesna ran the local newspaper. they never had a chance to defend themselves. elso they sued. after five full years, the college finally settled, in effect admitting that the

students have been railroaded but by that time their lives had beenen derailed and the reputations remained in tatters. the same thing has happened to a lot of students on campus. you may know some of them.f this is all a dark chapter in american history and yet, amazingly, joe biden remains proud of it. not long ago he dismissed any who criticized his attacks on constitutional norms as "neanderthals." as if you have to be a rapist to believe in due process. keep in mind, that's the guy now insisting he's innocent until proven guilty. the amazing thing is something high-profile biden supporters assume he is guilty under supporting him anyway. last week, professional bottom feeder lisaa bloom tweeted her support for biden. "i believe you, tara reade. i still have to fight trump, so i will still support joe, but i

believe you and i'm sorry." she tweeted that. in other words, hey, tara, sorry you got raped, i'm supporting your rapist. lisa bloom worked as a toady for harvey weinstein and that makes sense now. it's not just lisa bloom. marty worked for lohe new york times" for decades, a big figure on washington journalism. later he helped found politico, which sort of still exists. in a recent letter to his old paper, laid out his reasoning with remarkable candor. "i don't want to the investigation. i want a coronation of joe biden. i don't want justice, whatever that may be, i want to win. the removal of donald trump from office and mr. biden is our best chance. supposed an investigation reveals damaging information to mr. biden looses the nomination to bernie sanders or someone else with a minimal chance of defeating mr. trump, should we really risk the possibility?" again, we are not making that up, here wrote that. bringing the rapist to justice might affect the democratic party's chances in the election, therefore let's just ignore it. that's what marty is arguing and

he's arguing it explicitly. these are the people lecturing you relentlessly about your moral failings. who are these people? they're exactly the kind of people the bill of rights exists to disempower. without our constitutional protections, crazed immense group scribblers power worshipers like lisa bloom and marty would decide who goes to prison and who doesn't. you do not want to live in a country like that, but with the facism he released on college campuses, joe biden brought america much closer to being thatse country. so this point, now that he's been awakened since he's been accused himself, joe biden should get on hises knees and offer a groveling apology. not an apology to tara reade, an apology to the rest of us. breaking news, just in to the show, literally as i read the script, my producers notice a news release to blasting out an email from joe biden. joe biden on the trump

administration rule to undermine title ix in campus safety. just what we were talking about! in at the statement reads this, "survivors deserve to be treated with dignity and respect and when they step forward they should be heard, not silenced." it alsote includes this bid. "trump's education apartments trying to shame and silence survivors." there was no reference to the survivor who is accusing him ofu sexual assault, of course. what a pig. heather mcdonald is a manhattan institute fellow, she joins us tonight. so heather, thanks so much for coming on, as always. you covered this as it happened and i think it more compelling detail than anybody. assess, if you would, what joe biden did to our constitutional norms, our perception of innocence on campuses. >> well, here's the key point about the great anglo-american tradition of jurisprudence. your sex doesn't determine guilt or innocence, your race doesn't determine guilt or innocence, g the facts do and those facts

should be adjudicated in a neutral tribunal in the accuser should have to approve the accused guilt -- the accused should not have to prove his innocence. joe biden was willing to completely shred that tradition in order to curry favor with the radical feminists. the campus rape tribunals that he was absolutely instrumental setting up declared that neutral fact-finding was traumatizing and oppressive in that female survivors shouldha be believed becauses we all live in a rape culture and women deserve automatic belief from everybody else. now, the fact that biden is willing to suddenly now discard thatha prior stance and rediscor the value of due process and the perception of innocence would be amusing because hypocrisy in

politicians is always amusing, especially when it's as flagrant and shameless as this, but it's also a serious matter, because when politicians are so willing to discard their previous positions in the favor of self-interest or political advance, that erodes faith in our institutions. so it's a broad question of what this does to our politics, and it's also -- >> tucker: yes. >> an extraordinary danger for a ytradition of due process. a >> tucker: so i have concluded after looking at a lot of evidence i that these allegatios against joe biden are suspect, deeply suspect. i don't care for joe biden's politics, i'm not going to vote for him but i want to be honest enough to say that out loud

because i think it's true and what's true is what matters. i'm getting the impression that biden and the people around him could not care less what is actually true. it's only about what's expedient and brings the power, or am i not being charitable? >> right. you're a doing something that both sides of the political divide find it increasingly difficult to do, which is to apply neutral principles disinterestedly. regardless of partisan interest, which i don't assume you have in one way or another, but what biden is doing is saying he'ssa going to take at one pointrs a lowsy principle, which is believed survivors, but it's a principal. at least he's applying it!ap >> tucker: right. >> and then he disregards that principle when it's in his self-interest to adopt what i would argue is a far more profound t and important principle, which is due process and the presumption of innocence. so to see a politician be that hypocritical, that shameless, again, means that we live close to a tyranny, because the only thing protects us from sheer power is neutral principle from the rule of law. >> tucker: that's exactly

right, that is such a deep point. heather macdonald, thank you so much. great to see you tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: well, virtually alone and no one saw this coming among countries in the west, sweden refuses to copy china in the way that it responded to coronavirus. now its ambassador says sweden is approaching immunity, group immunity against the virus. she joins us next to explain what's happening there. ♪ ey're our neighbors. and they're our friends. they're our parents... our brothers and sisters. and our children. but now, they are more than that. they are forever our heroes, too. at prudential, we're fortunate to know and serve them. and we're grateful to the heroic men and women working on the front line to move our nation forward. to all the heroes, we thank you.

♪ ♪ >> tucker: as the coronavirus swept the planet in early march, virtually every western nation raced to adopt the chinese model, aggressive lockdown, targeting the whole population, severe punishment for anyone who didn't obey. one nation though refused to go along. it stood alone, it was sweden. sweden neverer closed restauran,

never close primary schools, it encouraged people to look up for their own health and the health of their neighbors. according to the country's leaders,ei that strategy worked. the swedish ambassador to the united states, we are happy to have her on tonight. thanks so much for joining us.ig i know you've been following this as closely as anyone, a lot of debate in the american media over how well your responses actually worked. can you bottom-line it for us, how has it worked? >> first of all, i would really like to stress my deepep condolences to anyone out there who has a loved one in the virus spreading across the united states, just as everywhere else. our strategy is based on, you know, our way of life, how we function in sweden. so the aim is of course to save as many lives as possible and keep the health care system running, because as we all know,

the flat curve in the spiked curve andcu so on, so it's a strategy to keep the curve as low as possible in getting our health care system to function. it's built on the recommendation, my country is a bit different there, people have big trust in the government and public agencies and the government trusts the population. that's a fundamental of how we advocate social distancing, people should stay at home, which they mostly adhere to. we have regulations, people in the elderly care home and that's where we unfortunately have seen the biggest loss of life, among elderly people, so 90% of the

3,000 people who have died in sweden have been older than 70 years old, and that's of course the big thing here that we have. something we are working on. we have also instituted sick days, if you have the slightest problem of sickness, stay at home. yes, restaurants are open, but of course it seen an economic downturn like a lot of them are doing extremely badly. but they are open. travel has gone down, 90% less travel in the country and people are basically following these recommendations. so yes, it is more open -- an open approach, but the same aim as everyone else. >> tucker: let me ask you, ambassador, one of the aims i think all epidemiologists agree is the goal is to get enough people who are immune in a society to the virus, who have been affected and recovered,

that it no longer spreads as quickly, group immunity.en how close to that is sweden right now? >> well, right now, we know that stockholm has about 25% of herd immunity. we are now doing a study, ready in one or two weeks where we are in the whole country, but three weeks ago, it was about 10%. we see an increase in this is of course something -- it's not a strategy to get herd immunity. it's something you want to get as long as we don't have the virus.te >> tucker: interesting. thank you for joining us, ambassador, and congratulations on seeing some progress. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> tucker: so we're trying to

take this in a big picture sense and if you do that, you know, it's the world trade organization, wto, played a key role in crating this country's dependence on china. it really did. at the numbers amazing. is it time to get rid of the wto? one u.s. senator says we should. we will explain after the break. ♪ turkey for jj. tuna for tj. this is why we named your brother derek. get a free footlong yup, free. when you buy one on the subway app. order now. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter

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confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org. >> tucker: almost 19 years ago in december of 2001, china joined the world's trade organization. it wasn't a huge story at the

time, but the leaders reassured it would be great. promised it would be a win-win for everybody involved. they were all completely wrong. it was a disaster. after 2001, the trade deficit exploded. thousands of american factories closed. millions of jobs disappeared. meanwhile, china completely ignored and he promises it made. for example, protect international property. thanks to the world trade organization, it's almostro impossible for the united states to retaliate. we have both arms tied behind our backs.za so why are we still in it?le yesterday, he wrote a piece in "the new york times" saying america could take a lead and abolishing the world trade organization. senator, thanks so much for coming on and for having an original unauthorized thought you are not allowed to have. why should we do this? >> well, it's because what is best for america.

let's get back to basics. they are good for our workers and our families. we lost over 2 million jobs to china since china became a part of it. china has really weaponized theh international trade system and the wpo to their own benefit against us. so it's time we did what we have done in the past. we take the lead and redesign these institutions. new rules, new partnerships that work for american workers and put america first. >> tucker: wait a second.ca you know for a fact you are not allowed to question the sacred postwar international framework, how do suggest this? >> it's amazing to see people's heads explode when you question the wto. let's remember, the wto was founded in 1995. it's hardly a sanctioned

organization. it hasn't worked for this country. that's the bottom line. we pursue things that are good or should be, good for america and american workers and american families. and the wto failed. let's not tether ourselves to it any longer. let's replace it was of the better. >> tucker: i'm just so fascinated by why things happen. why do you think, speculate just for a second if you would, why are people so invested in it? why did they demand this? >> well, the same people who who created the wto and were all for america's involvement and for having a seat in economic sovereignty, these are the same people who wanted to create a liberal universal empire. and have america be the world's policeman. they are the same people who sent our sons and daughters to die in these forever wars. the truth is the new model global economy was supposed to

be all part of this liberal universal empire. well, it didn't work. it was never going to work. it was never good for america. and now we have to reform it did actually protect american workers and keeper security. >> tucker: once you start reframing things, is it good for the country that you represent? i think you come to different conclusions. like the one you've come to. a ton of for saying this. good for you, i applaud you.o. great to see you tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: 60 minutes, gone. we are out of time. 59:28. we will be back tomorrow, thursday. we hope you enjoy your night with the ones you love. and now, taking over for us, 9:00 p.m. eastern from new york. being handed the show 15 seconds

early, the great sean hannity. >> sean: nobody's technically counting here. great show as always. yes, be with the ones you love. thanks, tucker. you have to buckle up for this "hannity." in the last hour we have gotten in so much information, the deep states, everything we told you unawares. a lot of ground to cover. breaking just moments ago, the doj finally released the witch hunt. of it, on the dirty unverifiable russian dossier. they knew it was russian disinformation. they knew months before they did the discharge letter. in other words, they gave the marching orders based on this knowing ahead of time that it was all a ball. they knew it was a lie. it's that bad. in just moments, we will list the allegation including many false ai t