so, draw the line. roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming your grass. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." on january 12th, 2017, "the washington post" ran a story by one of its opinion columnists revealing that the incoming national security visor general michael flynn had spoken repeatedly by phone to the russian ambassador of the united states, sergey kislyak. by itself, that wouldn't be much of a story. it is common for president-elecy and his staff to speak to their foreign counterparts before inauguration day. it's part of the transition to a new administration.re but "the washington post" suggested that what michael flynn had done could be criminal. those phone calls, the columnist posited, might be a violation of the logan act, that's a

revolutionary war era statute that is so obscure, not a single person has ever been convicted under it under the entire span of american history. so it's a safe bet that no one reading the paper that morning had ever heard of the logan act much less understood what it actually says, but it didn't matter. "the washington post" story spurred an instant scandal. within hours, reporters were yelling about flynn and kislyak in the white house briefing room and that was the beginning of it all. three full years of hysterics over russia followed from there. lost in the noise and the gesticulating for several vital questions. how exactly did "the washington post" know who mike flynn was talking to on the phone? where did the details of his conversation come from? and the logan act of 1799? who came up with that? these are not small questions. government agencies clearly had been spying on the incoming national security advisor. that is unethical and it's

scary, it's a terrible precedent. leaking details of those calls for political effect is a straightforward felony. during the obama administration, several government employees went to prison for leaking.fo we interviewed one of them on the show repeatedly. in the case of mike flynn, no one has ever been punished, and we still don't know who did it, but tonight we are getting warmer. earlier today, senators ron johnson and chuck grassley a released a list they received from ric grenell, the acting director of national intelligence. on his list is the name of every obama administration official who requested that mike flynn's name be "unmasked." there are an awful lot of names here, 39 names. former vice president joe biden is on the list. his name is last on the roster. this is clearly a big story, but what exactly does it add up to it's complex, so here are some context it. every day, american intelligence agencies, primarily nsa, but also others, collect massive amounts of data from around the

world, emails and phone calls from foreign nationals they are interested in monitoring. this goes on and always has. but often names of american citizens appear in these transcripts. by federal law, these names must be redacted from intel reports. they are american, they haven't done anything wrong. unless they receive special ngwarrants from a fisa court, te intel agencies are not allowed to spy on american citizens. it is illegal for the nsa or cia to spy on you if they don't have a fisa warrant. so if the administration officials really want to knowra the names of americans caught up in these reports, they have to fill out a form and officially request what's calledha and unmasking. as former national security advisor susan rice once explained, unmasking someone's name is something you only do one it's critical to our national security. i we can't be passive consumers of this information and not do

our job to protect american people. imagine if we saw something ofou great significance that involved russia or china or anybody else interfering in our political process and we needed to understand the significance of that. for us not to try to understand it would be dereliction of duty. >> tucker: so as rice just told you, it's their duty to unmask the names of american citizens caught up in the surveillance when it protects the american people. news reports today, needless to say, are suggesting the unmasking names of american citizens and intel reports is no big deal, it happens all the time. and in fact now it does happen quite frequently. it certainly did under obama. but it didn't always come and by deal,y, if it was no big they, names wouldn't be redacted in the first place by the law. we spoke today to a former intel officer who said that in his years working at cia headquarters, he never one time requested and unmasking. so the question is, why did 39

separate obama officials asked to unmask mike flynn's name? we can't know for certain until we see the forms they filled out. every unmasking request requires a reason for the unmasking. you can't just get it, you have to explain why you want it. when we see the forms they filled out, we will know the official pretext they gave, but for now we know this: every unmasking request is prompted by a separate intel report. that means there were an awful lot ofof intelligence reports being generated with mike flynn's name in them in the closing weeks of the obama administration. why? it's obvious what was going on. the obama administration wanted to monitor mike flynn's private communications. legallye they could not do tha, they didn't have a fisa warrant, so instead they used the nsa to do it for them. the nsa forwarded all surveillance reports that included mike flynn's name the white house where mike flynn's name was promptly unmasked.

this was a domestic spying operation. that's what it was.is it was hidden under the pretext of national security. once you see the details, that's very clear. plenty of the 39 people who saw flynn's name, who unmasked it, had no reason to know his name. they were not national security officials. they were political hacks, and that's not an exaggeration. on december 6th for example, the american ambassador to italy, a guy called john phillips asked to unmask mike flynn's name. phillips is not an intelligence officer. he is an obama campaign donor who is married to a former obama aid. why was phillips party to spying on an american citizen? what could possibly be the justification for that? we don't know. we can only guess. the ambassadors to russia and turkey, by the way, also saw mike flynn's name. some in the press tonight are defending this, but that

shouldn't be defended. it is totally wrong. samantha power was the one ambassador but in real life she was a political activist. she requested to see flynn's ctname. so to dennis mcdonough, and a seasoned political operative. mcdonough confirmed mike flynn's identity on the very same to his boss, barack obama, discussed mike flynn in the oval office with fbi director jim comey and deputy attorney general sally h. maybe that's why barack obama's name is not on the unmasking list. he had his assistant do it for him. imagine the donald trump did this to his political enemy. that would be a legitimate reason to impeach him, we were not offended on the show, it would be indefensible and so is this. and then there's joe biden. he asked to uncover mike flynn's name a january 12th, a week, eight days, before donald trump took office. what official justification could biden possibly have had for doing that? he must've given some reason he had to. again, the official form requires it. let's see that form. until we do, we can only

speculate about biden's motives. it's hard to see a legitimate reason for doing this, especially so close to the end of the administration. eight days. biden, for his part, is now claiming he knew nothing at allm about the mike flynn investigation. watch this interview from abc yesterday. keep in mind it took place before we received today's unmasking list. watch. >> i know nothing about those moves to investigate michael flynn, number one. number two, this is all about diversion. >> you say you didn't know any thing about it but you reportedi to being at january 15th 2017 meeting were you when the president were briefed on the fbi's plan to question michael flynn over those conversations he had with the russian ambassador kislyak. >> i thought you asked me whether or not i had anything to do with him being prosecuted. i'm sorry. i was aware that there was -- they had asked for an investigation. that's all that i know about it, i don't think there was anything else. >> tucker: that's all i know.t'

but you asked to unmask his name from classified surveillance document. if it was anyone besidesil joe biden, you have to conclude that's an obvious lie. on the face of it, we can prove it is. but because it is joe biden, it is possible he doesn't remember that or what he had for breakfast, but the rest of us should remember it. as the facts, and it was clear that michael flynn did not commit a crime. whatever you think of him, in this country you are punished for crimes. he clearly didn't commit one. obama administration officials, by contrast, did commit crimes. felonies. they spied on mike flynn. they passed his name or on the white house like a joint at a party. they leaked his private conversations to jeff bezos asked if he has newspaper in order to destroy his life, and theyes succeeded. these amoral creeps destroyed michael flynn's life and reputation and family.y. they should be punished for that and by the way, they may be punished. hoaccording to a knowledgeable source, a portion of the relevant information is missingg from this latest document

release. that could be a sign that some evidence is now in the hands of a grand jury impaneled to consider charges against whoever did this. we don't know that's true, we certainly hope it is. buck sexton hosts the "buck sexton show", we are happy to have him on tonight, former cia officer. buck, thanks so much for coming on. give some context of the story since you've been in the middle of things like this. >> as you mentioned, there is a high level of sensitivity arouni what they call incidental collection of u.s. persons. so that means that you're not supposed to be getting that information on the u.s. individual, but you have stuff onet them. and then there's this additional layer of, well, you can have an unmasking request for people about a certain level. this all relies on the degree of good faith operation and this reminds me a bit of the debate that we had over fisa, because fisa is really an end run on the fourthe amendment.

fisa says we will be able to surveil people, communications through this secret court, but it's really only going to be used against terrorist and spies. unmasking is supposed to be a for need to know purposes, for people really in the trenches on intelligence who have a valid reason for that information. not just curiosity. and the idea behind it is, well, we shouldn't be splashing his names around, but some people can be trusted to know who this is. clearly a lot of these people really wanted to know why general flynn -- general flynn was in these conversations. there's also something people should remember, reverse targeting, we ostensibly are looking to surveilled a foreign target, but you know they're probably talking to an american thatth you want to figure out. there's also the people that are saying now that unmasking shows they didn't know who this is. who did they think is having his conversations with the ambassadors of these different countries or with kislyak or

with other foreigners at this period of time? it's not that hard to fill in the blanks are, but why do they want to know badly why they have to confirm? that's where it starts to get even more suspicious. >> tucker: especially in literally the waning days, the last week of the administration. by the way, in the week before christmas and new year's, when there's not a soul in washington, everyone is in florida with a cocktail and they're up late at the white house unmasking mike flynn. let me ask you, these people get dozens, some of them, of intel reports across the desk everyday but they asked to redact -- they asked to unmask mike flynn's name again and again, repeatedly in some cases. they knew his name was in there. >> there's no question when you look at -- you lineup the timeline, the individuals that are making these requests, some of the meetings that were going on, including in the oval in january, the kislyak phone call on december 28th, 2016, the unmasking request before, the unmasking request after. you brought up how many intelligence reports? this is -- it's a firehose of information that's coming from the intelligence community all day long. these guys are getting constant

briefings. there was a clear focus on this from the very top of the law enforcement and intelligence communities. why?t he didn't do anything wrong. why are they all suddenly wanting to see his conversation. they don't have any good answers for this. >> tucker:rs they were starting a much larger plan to derail their sucessor with russia. michael neufeld is a name on this list, i wasn't familiar, who was michael neufeld and why is that significant? >> i think he still in the trump administration, from what i understand, which also raises -- how many of the people -- look there are some names that are on that list that i would note it's not surprising that they be engaged in unmasking. it's the political people that you're surprised by, but you'd also want to know, are any of them still in the administration? are any of them perhaps still that we should look at and wonder what their role was in this? which seems to be a conspiracy. we are not conspiracy theorists, we have unveiled a conspiracy, that's of the document -- god bless richard grenell, that's what it shows.

>> tucker: samantha power is a completely lightweight political figure and if you think she's a serious person, talk to her for 10 minutes. the fact that she would have access to this is -- by the way, i think he's in treasury now, maybe it's a different michael neufeld. i don't know, but it seems like maybe his, but we will find out. great to see you tonight, thank you. >> thanks. >> tucker: federal judge emmet sullivan has appointed a retired judge to argue against the justice department's motion to dismiss charges against mike flynn. and instead makes a case for sending them to prison, forrik real. jeanine pirro, also author of the book "radicals, resistance and revenge," we are happy to have her on tonight. judge, why would this judge -- and that was confusingly worded on my part, but this judge has asked another judge to make the case to send mike flynn to prison, what would be the purpose of that given what wege know? >> you know, tucker, from the time that i spent on the bench, and it was not a federal bench, but it was a trial bench as this

one is, it is absolutely foreign to any judge to even consider bringing in another judge toth copilot a case. understand this: this is a case that involves the government and a defendant. the united states, michael flynn.s the judge has an obligation to rule on the case before him. it is not complicated. it is a motion to dismiss with one of the most factual affidavit-laden support in terms of the evidence behind it to support the applications to dismiss. it's a miniserial move that this judge apparently doesn't want to make. so we have to bring in another judge, who by the way is a clinton-appointed retired federal judge. this is not something that needs to be done, because the motion makes it clear because there were missing fbi notes found of the law firm where eric holder was a partner, and because the

defendant, michael flynn, there was no predicate for him tose be investigated in the first place. he was told he didn't need an attorney and then was denied effective assistance of counsel. all these wrongdoings done by the federal government and the fbi and then now, what you have is the department of justice saying we want to dismiss this, we want to right a wrong. now they want to bring in the clowns. this morning it was all the retired watergate attorneys who want to come in and now we want to tell the judge chargeable. he has been a judge for 30 years. >> tucker: may i ask you a question? hold on. if you take three steps back, here's a guy who's going to prison for lying in a case in which we have handwritten notes from an fbi official saying should we get him to lie so we can send them to jail or get him fired? if he was an armed robber i would defend him.rwo are there actually people in washington with a straight face saying hehe should go to jail?d

>> yes, because it has become the politicization of the criminal justice system. we saw it in the kavanaugh the denial of the presumption of innocence. we are seeing further pillars udbeing destroyed in this particular case. >> tucker: that's right. >> this defendant was someone that was targeted by the judge. this judge needs to recuse himself, he should be embarrassed to put a robe on. he tells the defendant who is facing five years the prosecutor consider trying you just charging for treason, which is death penalty. he says you're an an embarrassment to the country. this judge doesn't belong in that case. and now what he's doing is he's poisoning the 2020 election by trying to make it look like bill barr, was one of the most honorable, effective attorney generals we've ever had, not an wing man like eric holder, he's trying to destroy the whole thing so that barr looks like the villain here. by the way, what happened to

joe biden this morning was aa body blow with the revealing of his being one of the individuals. he's in deep trouble right now. ng>> tucker: but he can plausibly say i don't member. he has that going for him. judge jeanine, great to see you, thank you. a small state not getting a lot of attention, but the governoror now janet mills s out of control. she is marshaling the whole power of the state to destroy a single restaurant owner. why? because he didn't treated with appropriate respect. she's going to crush them. we will bring you an update in just a minute. but first, the health director from pennsylvania told the public that nursing homes were entirely safe. she knew they weren't, so she pulled her mother out of a nursing home. others stayed and s died. almost unbelievable story, we've got details after the break. ♪

♪ ♪ >> tucker: close to 4,000 people have died in pennsylvania because of the coronavirus. almost 70% of those deaths, more than 2600, took place in nursinn homes or similar lawn care facilities. those deaths occur for the t very same reason they did in new york, because the state, officialscc there, ordered nursg homes to accept patients who had tested positive for coronavirus. the person who gave that order was the state's health secretary,t dr. rachel levine. levine knows nothing about this virus. she has no idea what she's doing, like so many of our leaders. here she is promising that

admitting t coronavirus cases io ntnursing homes, no problem at all, totally safe. >> by testing every resident and every staff member and every nursing home, we will be able to pinpoint exactly who has covid-19, who has been exposed, but no symptoms, and positive cases to prevent further spread. d>> tucker: she sounds so sure, they always do. we know what we're doing, they have no clue. that was untrue, completely untrue and it looks like she knew that it was untrue. which would make her really worse than most. outbreaks devastated pennsylvania's nursing homes. thousands of pennsylvanians lost their loved ones, their parents, their grandparents. levine's own 95-year-old mother transfered out of the facility she was in to keep her safe. what do you think that? the boat won't sink as she escapes in a lifeboat. don't expect any sympathy from

levine's boss, tom wolfe, he has had a very busy weekend not protecting the state, but denouncing opponents of his decisions as the moral equivalent of wartime deserters. watch this. >> over this past weekend, some have decided to surrender to this enemy. these are politicians who were elected to serve their fellow citizens. others are business owners who have chosen to serve their customers by putting them in harm's way. these folks are choosing to desert in the face of the enemy. this is called in every single pennsylvania to fight and we have heroically. to those politicians who decide to cave into this coronavirus, they need to understand the consequences of their cowardly act. >>rd tucker: what is he, winston churchill now? he's's some dopey governor who s no clue what he's doing. but on that score he's not joking. wolfe made it plain that if any business owner in a state things every opening and trying to salvage their livelihoods, he will crush them.m. >> to the politicians urging businesses to risk their lives

and risk the lives of their customers or their employees by opening prematurely, they need to understand that they are engaging in behavior that is both selfish and unsafe. you business owners, these politicians put you at risk of losing your health department certificate. they put you business owners at risk of losing your liquor license by opening before the evidence suggests you should, you're taking undue risks with the safety of your customers. that's not only morally wrong, it's also really bad business. >> tucker: for a slope h shouldered mediocrity like wolfe to have this much power, imagine what a rush that must be. he never wants it to end. the state meanwhile is desperate for relief. a congressional candidate in pennsylvania joins us tonight. jim, thanks so much for coming on tonight. so the governor has, judging by those clips and what we've read about him, believes he has total power of the commonwealth of pennsylvania, he could do iewhatever he wants, his word is

law. how did he get so powerful? >> thanks for having me. it's really a fiasco. it's an embarrassment. for governor wolf to go out and attack business owners, if he wants to investigate anyone, he should be investigating rachel esvine and his own administration, which a sentence 2700 people to death in our nursing homes. it really is an embarrassment. the moral culpability is in his hands. he's the one whose lead us down this path. >> tucker: that is such a great point. so we find out that the state health director, his health director, forced coronavirus-positive patients into nursing homes but pulled her own mother out of a nursing home. ras he addressed this or has he spent all his time yelling at people trying to make a living? >> he spent his time hectoring and lecturing us, the people of pennsylvania. my district is very blue-collar my grandfather was a coal miner, we want to work, we don't want government funds.y we want to work, we want to open our state back up. we think that's very reasonable, we can do it in a safe way. for god sakes, we landed on the

moon,ab we can open businesses.r what we do want to do is protect our nursing home residents. our elderly population is at risk. there should be national guard their testing people, there should be public health officials there. instead we have our public health official, rachel levine,, who's been an embarrassment to the state, spiriting her mother. i understand wanting to protect her 95 euro mother, that makes sense, but who is protecting us? she's protecting her own mother, who is protecting our grandparents? we would like equal treatment. >> tucker: but you don't get that, do you? >> it doesn't seem like we do. instead we get hectoring and lectured and told that we're doing the wrong thing and the democrats in washington seem to do the same thing. they tell us that we should have a $3 trillion debt field, a bonanza of spending instead of just doing what we want, and going back to work in the state way, let's open economy back up in a safe way and stop having lectures every day from governor wolf, spent a horrible leader. we have a huge outbreak of

coronavirus there. he hasn't been up there, why hasn't he been walking the streets? why hasn't he been talking to business owners that are auctioning off equipment because they need to feed their family? instead he stuck in his office in harrisburg, it's disgusting. >> tucker: really quick. it does seem like people want to work, they want to make their own living. that's where self-respect comes from. but there are many who would like the entire population to be tdependent on government debt checks for life. am iov imagining this? >> i think you're not imagining it but those people tend to be liberal democrats in the house of representatives led by nancy pelosi, supported by her lapdogs like matt cartwright and aoc. even democrats, independent it doesn't matter. where i represent, scranton, we want to work, we want to protect our elderly, do it in a safe way. we don't want government handouts, tucker. >> tucker: it so sad they're using this moment, they really are.

jim, thank you so much for coming on tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: is not just happening in pennsylvania, the state of maine, restaurant owner rick savage defied governor janet mills, who has no clue what she's doing, by reopening his restaurant outside bethel, maine. esnow she wants them destroyed r that. we will update you on his case after the break. plus we will talk to new jersey gym owner who says he's t reopening next monday no matter what his government thinks. we will be right back. ♪ at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. because our way works great for us! but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? nope. we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? we don't have those. so, what's in it for you? our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different.

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>> tucker: oxford county maine is about double the size of the state of rhode island. it goes from the southern part of the state all the way to the canadian border. but in all of oxford county there have been just 17 cases of the coronavirus. nobody there has died. the hospitals in the county are empty and we know healthy people are almost at zero risk, even if the virus does spread. in almost all businesses in the county have been ordered to stay closed. just like the rest of maine, the governor says so. rick savage had had enough of this, it was killing him and his family, so he came on the show and explain that he was going to exercise his right to earn a livingas and serve customers who were willing to take the risk. h >> we had enough of it. we are encouraging all businesses in maine to open up. we should have never been shut down in the first place. we need to open back up, get the businesses going or we're going to lose a third of our restaurants. who knows how many motels and businesses. we are advocating for everybody, not just for my restaurant, it's

.ime to go back to work. >> tucker: governor mills was watching that night. the state economy is collapsing. that doesn't seem to bother her. being disobeyed bothers her a lot, more than anything so she yanked the liquor license. now she wants to do more than that.in maine civil courts are currently shut down but mills has asks them to reopen temporarily solely to order rick savage's restaurant shut down completely. that shouldn't be allowed in this country. it has nothing to do with health. in fact, restaurants across rural maine are being opening next monday. she knowst it's not a threat in the world parts of the state. but she's doing it anyway. why? because power is what janet mills cares about. rick savage defied her, now she will crush him. but savage does not plan to submitva to this. he spoke to our producer today and said this. >> they are taking us to court, trying to expedite attended oxford county court to get a judge to stop us and shut us down and then if we defy his order that would give us a criminal record and that's what they're trying to do, trying tos

give us a criminal record to the court o systems. >> the judge orders you to shut down, will you comply? >> no. >> and if the police show up to arrestor, what will you do? >> i guess i'll sleep in a prison cell for a while for it for basically trying to make in the eggs example because i defied order. if they want to make me an example, they can come after mei >> tucker: this case, the case of rick savage, a citizen versus governor janet mills, a tyrant, is a metaphor for a lot of what's happening in this country right now. in aet thousand little towns tht we're not reporting on, so we are going to follow this case very carefully. in new jersey, governor phil murphy is still keeping the state under lockdown indefinitely. as long as he says so. but one business owner says he's sick of it. he's fed up with the governor's power grab. ian smith owns a gym in belmar, new jersey, he says he plans to reopen his gym on monday no matter what the governor says and he has a plan for keeping hiser patrons safe.

ian smith joins us tonight, happy to have him, thanks a lot for coming on. so you know that your governor, murphy, who has all power, he can do whatever he wants to you, has said that you can do this, twhy are you doing it anyway? ou>> first of all, thank you for having me tonight. >> tucker: it's our pleasure. >> thank you for sharing stories like rick's story, shelley's story, it is extremely important and i don't think enough coverage is getting there, so i appreciate you. governor murphy has presented zero plans and i think my business partner and i have plans to keep people safe. we think so far this has been just a gross violation of constitutional rights. the 14th amendment states that no state shall pass any law that infringes upon our rights as citizens, and we've been forced into our homes. which we know is not healthy for our immune systems and enough is enough. we've gotten to the point where

i've watched many businesses around me collapse, i've watched people lose their jobs and there's no progress moving forward. so we are ready to take action ourselves and we have thought long and we have thought hard about it and all of our actions come from the heart was not our best interest in mind, but what we feel is the greater good for ourselves, our community, and the state and nation as a whole. >> tucker: so murphy clearly doesn't know what to do to keep people safe. so many in new jersey have died. he's arrested people for attending i weddings. you are openly defying him on television. what do you think is going to happen to you when you do this? >> we are prepared for any and all consequences. our actions on monday are going to be grounded in the ideals of civil disobedience. what we intend to showcase is that we reject the premise of essential versus nonessential businesses. anything thatia walmart can do with hundreds if not thousands of people passing through the stores every day, touching everything in sight, a small business, whether it be a restaurant, a gym, a hair salon,

or anything else, can replicate those things and we can go above and beyond and we plan to do that. when we open, we are going to be taking measures that are no different than if you were to go to a doctor right now, taking temperatures at the door. we are not open for the public, if you actually look at murphy's executive order, he says that gyms are closed to the public. we have a membership base that is not a public entity, so we will know who comes in our doors, who doesn't, and that is something that you don't see in his big box stores, they are letting a anybody in. >> tucker: exactly. >> above and beyond. >>cu tucker: it looks like you have. here are the before/after. that's your gym before the pandemic alive, here's the picture of the way it looks now. and you can see -- our viewers can see it's very different. >> we have -- we've been out of work, we are coming up on month three now and my business partner frank and i are not the type of people to sit home and not the type to feelom bad for

ourselves, so we've been waiting and planning because the state should reopen, but it just doesn't seem like it is, and the measures that we took are well above and beyond. we spread out the entire gym. we understand that we're probably not going to be able to have max capacity, so we spread things out. everything in the gym is more than 6 feet apart, including cardio equipment. everything a person is walking r the gym, going to have to follow instructions or they will be asked to leave. people that walk and walk involuntarily. so we are ready to go. we are ready to show that anything that walmart for these big corporations who have been given leeway to operate freely, small businesses in america all around america can do, we can get back to work but we can get to work safely with public interest -- excuse me, with public health in mind. ubt a single one of us, not rick savage, not shelley luther, none of us are doubting the danger of the coronavirus. what we are saying is l that we can be prosperous and we can be cautious at the same time,

because if we choose one of the other, either situation is going to lead us down a dark road. there's a common ground in the middle to be found and we think that we are going to show chris out on monday regardless of whatever consequences come our way. >> tucker: you are the most thoughtful gym owner i've ever spoken to. really quickly, i think i may wahave mispronounced the name of your gym and i just want to get it on the record, how do you pronounce it? >> it is atilis. >> tucker: belmar, new jersey. ian, thanks so much for coming on. >> thank you so much, have a good night. >> tucker: dr. tony fauci, a stone cold genius who you not allowed to question told us that masks do not work, now he's telling us they are completely essential, told us that handshaking should never be allowed but having sex with random people you meet online is totally cool. fauci has been wrong quite a bit. sometimes he's absurd. now he's praising china for its transparency, and we have the tape of that.

we are not attacking him, okay? we are just, as citizens, asking questions. what the hell is going on? dr. siegel weighs in next. ♪ every financial plan needs a cfp® professional --

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♪ >> tucker: it's possible that no doctor in american history has ever had as much power as anthony fauci has right now. but fauci is not god, despite his apparent omniscience. he told us that masks didn't work and could hurt us, he said americans shouldn't worry about the virus even as it bore down on the country. then earlier this year, here's a tape we just found, here's what he said about china. >> china has been known to

fiddle with their stats before. do you trust what they're telling us about this illness? >> from what i can see right now, they really are being much, much more transparent than what happened with sars, where they really keptpa that information r a while. it was embarrassing to them. they are really transparent now. they put the sequence of the virus up on the public database right away, so in that respect, they've been transparent.. >> tucker: fox medical contributor dr. marc siegel joins us tonight. doctor, that clip was on fox. david did that interview, it was a good interview. i hadn't seen until today. i'm kind of surprised that dr. fauci would say that china was so transparent. >> he has also said that to me. i want to start by saying that i have a lot of respect for dr. fauci for many years, butt there are three major areas i disagree with him on strongly in the going to talk about them now. one is the chinese scientist issue. the second is lockdowns, and the third is schools. regarding the chinese scientist,

i think we were badly deceived. we were never allowed to have boots on the ground. that should have told you something. dr. redfield could never get the cdc in there. we were told all these types of things about this virus by chinese scientists. meanwhile, it's way more contagious than we thought. it's way more deadly than we thought and has way more side effects than we thought. now we have seen it affecting children. meanwhile, the chinese were locking down internally. they are in china, but were letting people go to europe and then on to the united states. it spread through highly asymptomatic people and dr. fauci and dr. redfield, nobodydr knew about that, so he has to admit now thatne we were badly deceived by chinese people working for the chinese government. second point is regarding lockdowns. there was a scientist back in 1918, he was the health commissioner of st. louis. do you know what he did? he looked at the spanish flu, and he said it's coming here from boston.

second wave. you know what he did? he locked down the city and he saved thousands of lives. way in advance of a much less contagious virus than this one. why in advance, that's the key. because our member, i just told you this thing, this covid-19 has been spreading wildlyr, throughout society. it's too late for lockdowns. all of these door county and lockdowns are destroying our economy, leading to thousands u d d thousands of deaths from despair, from drug abuse, from alcoholism, from unemployment. we have to consider that. we should focus only on the hot spots and just do social distancing and start to take all of these cables off. that's where dr. fauci is wrong. late for lockdowns. third point, schools. schools are not on the table here. are you kidding me? already kids were sent home to spread covid-19 to grandmothers and regarding this fall, the 1918 2nd wave, i've been monitoring australia and so has dr. fauci. you know many cases are in australia today? 11. only 11 new cases. that's the southern hemisphere.

that's essentially our november right now. it predicts that we're not going to have a big second wife when our children go back to school there's going to be plenty of testing. we are going to test teachers, we're going to test students. we have very mild mild cases among our young, or asymptomatic, but we are going to keep an eye on them. finally a nonmedical point i want to end on here. politically if you think the democrats are going to let the liberal colleges stay closed, think again. those are their future voters. >> tucker: that is such a smart point. somear of them are going to go t of business and we are going to have a little party on the show. not a little party, big party. dr. siegel, wait to see you, thank you. >> thank you. >> tucker: joe biden they are telling you is a safe and moderate democrat. is he? may bede joe biden doesn't belie anything, completely under the spell of the most radical people in this party. dana perino will talk about that next. ♪

>> tucker: how terrified >> tucker: how terrified is joe biden on the radicals in his party? here is one measure, so terrified he just made alexandria ocasio-cortez the head of his global warming task force. she's the woman who blames hurricane deaths on racism. >> do we see largely is the global south and communities of color that may be bearing the brunt of the initial havoc of

climate change? speaker without a doubt. >> in terms of that, the people who are producing climate change, the folks that are responsible for the largest amount of emissions, communities, corporations, they tend to be predominantly white, correct? >> yes, and every study backs that up. >> tucker: 's are not really a science person, that ocasio-cortez. she's running global warming for joe biden. dana dana perino, always delighted to have her. knock it down if you'd like. biden is not indebted in the leafs. do you think that's right? >> it certainly gives that appearance. if you show me a science down the candidate worried about their base in the generalho election, i'll show you somebods very unsteady as a candidate. i can't tell you how happy republicans were yesterday,

tucker, when they found out aoc is going to be in charge of energy policy and p climate poly for the biden campaign because biden is actually courting voters that already were going to vote for him, right? he's turning off the voters who may have voted for him. for example, aoc turns out people in the suburbs, like the districts that the republicans flip last night in california. how about the people in pennsylvania who rely on fracking jobs, they say they want to kill that through the green new deal. and the justice dems lost in wisconsin. ellie and omar has a tough race ilhan omar has a tough race. nobody is listening to the aocs and omars in the race because they have no power but biden is giving them your life.in it's kind of baffling. >> tucker: it's not baffling once you understand that's what we candidate does, they pander to the fringes.

>> when you have something liket in pennsylvania that'll be a battleground, you have people in a tough spot when it comes to an employment because of the pandemic. but the energy jobs, they are in particular danger of not even coming back. if they can't come back quickly. if they think joe biden is going to bring on aoc as the climate advisor, game over. p i think president trump will be able to win b those voters overa quite handily.hi >> tucker: he doesn't need to do this but he's doing it anyway which tells you something pretty weird. >> i mean he was able to win this nomination by knockingo thm down and now he's embracing them. it doesn't make sense. >> tucker: it's very strange! i think he's a vessel for othe others. that's maybe the worst thing. thank you so much for that. >> goodou to see you. odhave a good night. >> tucker: you too. we wish we had more time.

we could do five more hours. there's enough going on. but we don't so we are turning it over to the great sean hannity who was standing by tonight in new york. >> sean: can i tell you, though? what dana laid out there was a brilliant analysis. >> tucker: it was. >> sean: if they get rid of biden has many are speculating, i think it's difficult to do, that's the whole groupthink known as the democratic socialist party.th there are no moderates left in the party. they are all extreme radical socialists, they all buy into this ocasio-cortez nonsense. great show host, great analysis by both of you. >> tucker: good to see you. >> sean: have a great night. welcome to "hannity." buckle up. two massive developments in the biggest abuse of power corruption scandal in american history. dozens of top obama officials have unmasked, surveilled lieutenant general michael flynn in the weeks after