intervietapeand let the first ts talked. we will talk about the challenge that general keane and joe lieberman laid out for him and how he gets his approval rating up with joe biden with a ten-point lead amongst national polls. >> sandra: fox news alert, the nation we can about an eighth straight night of protests from the country as demonstrators defy curfews and several major u.s. cities. those protests generally are more peaceful than what we had seen but there were still pockets of violence. good morning everyone, i'm sandra smith. >> ed: and i'm a ed henry. curfews going into effect at cities and states try to curb looting and riots following the george floyd death. some demonstrators throwing fireworks and water bottles and meanwhile in st. louis the tragedy. a retired police captain killed by a looter. 77-year-old david dorn was shot

while responding to an alarm at a pawnshop overnight monday. in new york city, protests were mostly peaceful. some reports of looting and vandalism and all this happening after new governor cuomo slammed mayor de blasio over the response to the looting. >> i believe the mayor underestimates the scope of the problem. >> we do not need nor do we think it's wise for the national guard to be in the ci city. nor any armed forces. we bring up outside armed forces into the equation that they are not trained for, that's a dangerous scenario. >> sandra: fox team coverage, kristin fisher is either the white house for us this morning with no reaction from the white house. would be would begin with aishah hasnie, live from the white house. >> good morning to you. the iconic saks fifth avenue store here in manhattan is

covered with plywood this morning and razor wire, even guard dogs here at night. this comes after looting at the macy's flagship store in midtown manhattan. fortunately much less looting last night compared to the last two nights. that could be due to the 8:00 curfew and then they are ordering checkpoints across manhattan, limiting who is allowed to come in. the protesters did try and some succeeded. thousands of protesters peacefully demonstrated in brooklyn and manhattan, some denying the curfew and defining that thousands were stuck because of this on the manhattan bridge when the curfew took effect, blocks on both sides for over an hour. then we feeling pressure from all sides and protesters calling for him to resign while president trump and governor cuomo put the pressure on to increase police presence and call in the national guard. the mayor have something of

course more protests are scheduled for later today. >> sandra: aisha hosking, thank you. >> ed: now we turn to the nation's capital, or protests were mostly peaceful into the night. the pentagon moved about 1600 active-duty troops to the d.c. area to aid in right response. that is as we learn to the clearing of demonstrators near the white house monday ahead of president trump's visit to st. john's church was ordered by the attorney general william barr. i kristin fisher live at the white house. >> last night was the most peaceful night outside of the white house. since friday the protesters and police and other law enforcement that were there for the most part seems to keep their cool and if there were thousands of protesters lined up outside of lafayette square.

and it was it was still that same square monday night when attorney general bill barr gave the order to push protesters back before president trump walked out of the white house into st. john's church. according to a senior official at the justice department, a decision to widen the perimeter around the white house was made early monday morning. that plan had not yet been executed in early afternoon, and that's one thing is rocked on erupted. they maintain that those protesters were peaceful, but the u.s. park police are painting a very different story. they put out a statement yesterday afternoon saying "as many of the protesters became more combative and continue to throw projectiles and attempt to grab officers weapons, so pepper balls were used but to be very

clear the park police are saying no teargas. >> it's very important to note that no teargas according to police, and we will go there live next hour. rod rosenstein has not testified into years. this would have been the biggest story of the day if not the entire week. former attorne about his handlie russia investigation and this is a big deal because it will give senate republicans are first hearing into the origins of that probe. normally this would get wall-to-wall coverage but today of course it has to compete with those nationwide protests and a pandemic. >> you are right about that. also wondering what he might say about the michael flynn case. >> for more on today's senate hearing let's bring in the

senator from louisiana, senator john kennedy who serves on the judiciary committee. ahead of all of this, what conclusions based on all of the information, data, interviews and documents that you have been able to see, about the origins of the investigation. >> if you know the difference between a law book and a j.crew catalog, you can see that there were illegalities. inspector general horowitz's report, and interviewed in secret, and most of whom were

from obama investigation. then the chairman went right out, and the press sucked it up like a hoover deluxe. i'm a pretty simple guy. and the former deputy and attorney general was there today. what do you know, why didn't he know, and all these knuckleheads that really hurt, i'm really

worried about it. >> sandra: when it comes to what we know and what we don't know, obviously this is going to come up. we don't recall knowing about the political nature of the steele dossier, what do you think actually comes from this and what questions do you have? >> he was the deputy attorney general. his people and the people under him, fbi, too, he didn't remember and he didn't look,

don't you think before you signed off on the third warrant that you want to take a look and somebody briefed me on the steele dossier. the fbi had a chance to figure out, is it accurate? is it accurate? he's a smart man, he's a very smart guy. but you can't plead ignorance, that when you are captain of the ship. that's my opinion. >> sdra: as we anticipate all of that, i will get to that in just a moment. but there's a continued bipartisan reaction to the president after he addressed the nation two years ago.

listen. >> as to why the president shows a church, i don't know. the military does not like getting in a position of having to police within the united states. >> so some people of washington don't like trump, and i get it. i'm a christian and i'm a methodist.

and i feel the same way about other homemade documents and other religions. we will have an election from but he was elected by the american people. i'm sure not going to criticize him for standing for religious negative, criticism. >> i will tell you what i saw on television.

and i know there were some folks there who were peacefully protesting. but i saw that, too. >> sandra: a final thoughts? >> i think governor cuomo was right. i don't know what planet mayor de blasio parachuted in from but i don't see him carrying himself down there to protect people, he needs help to protect everybody. and the cops and the business owner. he's not qualified to run a hot dog stand as far as i'm concerned.

>> sandra: are you suggesting that national guard is needed in new york? >> well, yes. all you have to do is look at fifth avenue for god's sakes. it was horrible. it says a american as baseball. men and women have died to protect that right. if you don't know the difference between peacefully protesting and felony rioting then you tested positive for stupid. burning down businesses and trying to hurt cops and lawful protesters who disagree with you is a crime. and these people ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

and i most people have the right. >> sandra: senator john kennedy never mincing words. senator kennedy, thank you. >> ed: a fox news alert, joe biden addressing the nationwide protests over the death of george floyd and slamming president trump's response. is he using unrest as a political weapon? karl rove wants to weigh in on that, and he is next. >> we can't plead this moment thinking that we must once again turned away and do nothing. we can't do that next time. the moment has come for from our nation to deal with systemic races.

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>> sandra: fox news alert. we are expecting a briefing from top defense department officials. you are looking at the briefing room at the pentagon. we are told to expect defense secretary mark esper and general milley to take to the podium there. obviously there is a range of

news issues that they could be hitting on there, and in a brand-new interview, mark esper talked about the fact that he did not know where the president was heading when he walked out of the white house the other day following the address to the nation and headed over to st. john's church. he said he was going to talk to the troops. we will have that for you when it begins. we will be watching it. >> ed: meanwhile joe biden sweeping every democratic primary yesterday. the former vp gave a fiery speech in philadelphia and we saw there live in the killing with george floyd and blessing president trump's response to the protest. let's bring in karl rove, carl, good morning. the one we will get to the protests in the riots and all the rest but first big picture, normally we would be talking a whole lot about what happened last night in the normal environments. your big picture on where we are

in this presidential race? >> here's the whiteboard. biden is still not at 1991. as of this morning it's 1993 and he's not going to get in bernie's states were he's got 15% of the vote. he's going to get a chunk of these three, that have yet to finish allocating. these are states that didn't hit the 15% trigger. he is going to be the nominee, no if's hands or buts about it but he will go through a couple more of these final contests in order to get there. >> ed: let's quickly get to a piece of what he had to say yesterday and now he's trying to frame, i guess, the aftermath of george floyd but also the road ahead to the white house. we will get you to react.

>> we want to be part of the solution and not the problem. every american, look at where we are now and think anew. is this who we are and is this who we want to be? i promise you that. i want traffic in fear and division. >> ed: he doesn't want to fan the flames but spent a lot of time going after the president. >> he opened by saying i can't breathe, the words of george floyd are a wake up to the country. he said we need leadership that recognizes the pain and grief in our country and even balance that saying there is no place for violence in response to the death of george floyd. too much of this was an attack on donald trump. the american people didn't want to hear a political speech, they

wanted to hear the president, not a presidential candidate. and so to say the president is serving the passions of the space. he has a duty to care for everyone, not just donors. he's not doing the work of america and he has turned the country into a battlefield. i thought that was over-the-top. candidates among them feed off of that audience. rather than having the teleprompter on the camera, he spent the entire time looking from one teleprompter and back again. the technique aside, it was fundamentally flawed. but americans wanted to hear and what he missed the opportunity to do was to sound like a president, not as somebody who was there to whack his opponent in the election but to unify the country and set a big goal for us to come together and achieve, and he didn't do that. i think it was a missed

opportunity for the democratic nominee. >> ed: is speaking of trying to unify the country, you are former boss and former president george w. bush have a statement put out. he said in part and with good reason, black people is the repeated violation of their rights without an urgent and adequate response from american institutions. we know that and destruction is not progress. and the former president, you want to push back on that? >> it's an outside apologist, is largely outside of politics and he has kept his tradition of respecting his successors, and what he did feel was important is to be heard about this

important issue in america, how do we come together as a people. you'll notice he had both of those notes. we had the note of, we have a society in which if you are black, you face a much higher likelihood of being mistreated and even in the case, as we saw in the case of george floyd, die at the hands of our police and we as a society need to do something about it. we also had the strong words of the condemnation of violence. so i would say to those trying to make a political one way or the other but the politics aside and let the man be seen for what he is, a senior statesman, commenting on what he thinks is important for our country and urging americans to come together and recognize the challenges we face as a people. >> ed: and to your point, there are so many events happening so quickly, george floyd's brother said he wouldn't

have been in favor of these riots and that it's not on his memory. her final thought? >> i think that's an important point. we are a country based on our bill of rights and it gives people the right to free speech. we fought as a people to establish from the country and yet the violence that we see on the edge of these protests is an attempt to undermine that fundamental right. a man whose life is based around protests in which he was brutally beaten and jailed and yet he believed in nonviolent protests. god bless him for doing so but

they need to post the people within the ranks who are engaging in violence because that strikes at the heart of our country and this is a moment where doesn't need and can't sustain those kinds of injuries. >> sandra? >> as protests go on in the twin cities the minneapolis police department is facing a civil rights protest. >> we are not leaving with demanding justice. i'm tired of seeing things like this ♪

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>> fiona does not have a father. he will never see her grow up and graduate. he will never walk her down the aisle. if there is a problem she's having and she needs a dad, she doesn't have that anymore. >> it's very emotional, the mother of george floyd solder speaking out for the first time as minnesota wants a civil rights investigation into the minneapolis police department following his death on may 25th. the investigation will look at the last ten years to determine if the officers engaged in discriminatory practices as mostly peaceful protests go on

in the twin cities. matt finn is live with more details. >> attic, there are currently national guard soldiers but they are also helping out neighbors like the situation right here. they are protecting this locally owned corner grocery store and the national guard says is one of the few remaining stores in this area remaining open for people to get food. with an on the ground for a week now and we've seen many stores that sell food across town that are boarded up or have been burned down. the owner of this particular store says the national guard has been protecting his store for five days. >> if it were up to me i would ask if they could stay here every day but i know they have

other places to watch and take care of. >> also here in minnesota, more fallout. the government says the department of human rights is filing a charge to launch a civil rights investigation into the minneapolis police department. >> the investigation will review mpd's policies and procedures over the last ten years, and george floyd's funeral and public memorial are scheduled for next week in houston, texas. >> sandra: wall street has been reacting to a brand-new jobs report. that was well below the estimate of 9 million jobs losses as the stock market does open higher on

that news. at 235-point again for the dow. let's bring i in a neil cavuto. good morning to you and happy to say that there is a rally as we begin this wednesday morning and that jobs report. it was highly feared as it was expected to be 9 million approximately. it was not as bad as feared. >> and furthermore way down from april when we lost millions of these private-sector jobs. it's what you are really brace for, it's they are old going on in states across the country.

whatever numbers we are looking out will be short-lived and even when restaurants and stores reopen all be had at limited capacity, it's better than zero capacity and that seems to be the thinking. the markets are forward-looking beasts as you know and sometimes that can lead to beastly behavior but for now they are focusing on the good and also hoping after a relatively calm night last night at protests, certainly the calmest we've seen since all this began in the last week or so and maybe cooler heads will prevail as well. we will see >> sandra: meal, you look at the situation in new york, want to get your thoughts on that as we see all of these protesters filling the streets of new york. look at the actions in the part of the mirror, bill de blasio

they are so many businesses that cannot open their doors yet. that is the new york city metropolitan area next week. you have to think about people who are already returning to the office buildings and whether they will be more reticent in elk in the protests in the lingering fears of this could last a while. it's anyone's guess as to how long this lasts for the crowds are substantial. there is concern that new york will have enough trouble getting people back. the fact that protests could continue or parties are not on the same page, i wanted to get a sense of that.

he, too, a little bit concerned about the impression this leaves in folks minds here but it doesn't help. it certainly doesn't help. >> sandra: i'm looking at the intraday high of the dow, and as we were speaking it has come off of the high several minutes ago. it tapped off just below 26,000. isn't it amazing that as far down as this market went in the darkest days of the coronavirus pandemic that here it is, points away now from topping 26,000 again? some of these averages, the nasdaq 100 is at present away from a record high. >> right. the nasdaq itself what was within two percentage points of an all-time high. the dow and the s&p have both recovered about 40% of the ground lost back in those softies that we were experiencing in march. it's an amazing comeback. i think about it as well.

we were in and out of 18,000 at the dow with those lows and if you think about the record highs just shy of 30,000, we are much closer to the record then where those bear market lows. so that is an encouraging development. i also find constructed fact that mortgage applications had another strong week, up close to 20% so that means the pent-up demand to buy homes is still there. also other publishing's are ready for war here. that is all the wind at this markets back. >> sandra: we will see you later on the fox business network. neil cavuto, thank you. >> ed: meanwhile, rod rosenstein about to appear before a senate panel to testify in the rush of probe.

senator chris coons will be a key democrat at that hearing and he will join us first to talk about what he's expecting, coming up.

>> ed: rod rosenstein set to testify about the origins of the russia probe and alleged fisa abuses but a democrat slamming the hearing as an extension of the reelection campaign. democrat chris coons serves on the election campaign. good to have you. up to be clear that democrat is chuck schumer, and i quickly want to say he says they have failed the american people by turning the institutions of the senate into an extension of the president's reelection campaign. at the republican chair will hold yet another hearing not on a pandemic but on baseless conspiracy theories related to the 2016 election. quickly on that, they were spying and said, given the

michael flynn issue, isn't it worth exploring what really happened and that everyone can move on once we get those answers? >> we were looking at one narrow issue perhaps but i will remind you that we are in the middle of a pandemic and an economic crisis and nationwide protests about policing in the aftermath of the tragic killing of george floyd in minneapolis. i'm grateful that we are going to have a hearing on policing practices and police community relations and i think that's appropriate, but between here and there there's a lot of things that we could be and should be doing on a bipartisan basis to provide more support to small businesses and communities, the 40 million americans who are unemployed to demonstrate that we both hear the protesters around our country and we are working in a bipartisan way to put some

strength and supporting our economy. >> ed: we talk about bipartisanship, and we wrap up the conversation both from delaware. it began with, "i can't breathe, i can't breathe." george floyd's last words that didn't die with him. it did concluded with a giant red button and the words of "donate to elect joe biden. i thought we were trying to keep politics out of this crisis? >> ed, what has inspired me about joe's actions in the last three years, excuse me, last three days, and in our home commandmencommunity, joe came tt street and he went to, was invited to an historic ame church to hear from pastors and

civil rights leaders, local youth and activists and yesterday he gave a speech in philadelphia that focused on bringing our country together and charting a path forward. we got millions of people unemployed and anxious and not unemployment falls heavily on communities of color. we got millions of people out in the street protesting not just the killing of george floyd but a list of names to long for me to repeat. froand that i think ought to ber principal focus. we need leaders to bring us together. these are all points that you just made. but with all due respect, i get the crisis in america but is it appropriate to be raising money by saying "i can't breathe" when this man was just killed?

i know that he has expressed his condolences, i know i have seen his humble heart evidenced in the way that he has been listening to protesters and we can go back and forth about how the campaigns are fund-raising and go back and forth about this here that hearing and we certainly appreciate you coming on today. >> sandra: violence and destruction taking its toll on small businesses hit hard by the pandemic. our next guest describing a frightening moment that looters broke into his business as he

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>> sandra: violent protests across the country taking a toll on small businesses already struggling amid the coronavirus pandemic. a st. paul business owner had just reopened when looters broken last thursday. he stole thousands of dollars in merchandise and left the store a mess. the owner, jim siegel of ask and answer plus joins us now. good morning and thank you for being here. how are you doing this morning? >> i'm doing good, thanks for asking. >> what happened. you were in the store at the time, correct? >> i was.

before i start i want to say i was impacted by this, i'm not a victim. and i was at my place of business last thursday and we said there was some unrest in the area and i stayed back to do some work in my office. at some point i heard a loud noise in the store and i actually thought it was a car coming through the window but turned out it was people. there was a lot of noise and mayhem and luckily i was locked in the office. they weren't able to breach the door and i locked myself into a bathroom and got on the 91 it sort of felt like a movie. it was not an enjoyable experience but that's what

happened. >> sandra: jim, why you have been telling your story, we've been showing pictures on the screen and it's obviously quite clearly been a ransacked mess. it looks like the register that we are showing here, eventually you were able to leave and you came back to more looters. >> so the police escorted me out. the police basically said it's a 50/50 chance that my building won't be standing. there wasn't a chance to get a crew out there, by that time it was too much chaos. i left and went home, i heard from an employee who lives not far from the business that several more businesses were damaged. i came back to the scene and

tried to shoo some people away. at one point i was assaulted in doing so so, these are just belongings. for the next four hours i watched as my business was picked apart. >> sandra: if you ten employees, are you going to survive this? >> i hope so. i will take one day at a time. i mentioned dealing with covid was a challenge. we were closed for six or seven weeks and businesses cannot survive without revenue. we are going to do our best, we have a great crew and great customers and we have a very long-term track record of doing

what we do. we make every effort to return and create vibrancy in our neighborhood. >> sandra: asked mentzer plus, we see the sign on the picture you sent in, we will return with a smiley face. it's a been a tough time for you, our best to you and for your business to reopen and thrive. >> i thought that was an important message to put out there when we finished boarding up. thank you. >> sandra: thanks jim. >> ed: a big news conference at the pentagon coming up, and we are also watching a big senate here. stay with us. our confidence is shaken; our hearts cracked.

the kind of a crack that comes from the loss of a job; from life plans falling apart. we didn't ask for it... but we are rising to meet it. and how far we've come isn't even close to how far we can go. we just have to remember how patient we were... how strong we can be. (how strong you can be.) and remember this; there's a crack in everything for a reason. how else can the light get in? ♪ tomorrow starts today. theand we want to thank times, the extraordinary people tomorrow in the healthcare community, working to care for all of us. at novartis, we promise to do our part. as always, we're doing everything we can to help keep cosentyx accessible and affordable. if you have any questions at all, call us, email us, visit us online. we're here to help support you when you need us.

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>> sandra: fox news alert. on a very busy day in washington, on one side of your screen you will see that we are awaiting a news conference from the pentagon with defense secretary mark esper. that very thing coming as the national guard is deployed in more than two dozen states to help deal with riots and looting. on the other side of capitol hill where attorney general deputy rod rosenstein is set to testify on the origins of the russia probe. it's his first appearance before congress in two years. welcome to a brand-new hour of "america's newsroom." >> ed: is great to be with you as always.

the republican led panel, related to his oversight of the russia probe called crossfire hurricane. let's bring in special report anchor bret baier, martha maccallum and ken star starr, former. he hasn't testify into years and a lot has happened since then including the michael flynn case of course. good morning. >> good morning. i think, that's about the abuses when it comes to isaiah, the foreign intelligence surveillance act. there is essentially the sense that he's dumping it on the fbi and mistakes are made there but it will be interesting to see the q&a here. remember this is all about the

beginning of the russia probe and all we have learned since then. the context will say that this is just the way to waste time, senator graham has pledged to get to the bottom of it since the beginning. >> to you now, concerning the fisa warrant applications and other matters. we spoke to senator kennedy at the top of the last hour. what do you expect in that hearing room. >> obviously we touched on the fisa application, we push it off on to others and it raises a lot of questions about the way it works in and of itself. one of the things that i think is important to remember is the

information that we have now, we have bill barr staying in front of a different hearing on the hill, he believes that spine on a presidential campaign did occur. that's acting dni in the past several months. and that we have the scope memo that rod rosenstein wrote and we have the own classifications of the unmaskings and then you have the flint transcript call. each one of these pieces has served to dismantle in the white house's view all of the predication for the beginning of the investigation. this is an open forum where he's going to be asking a lot of these questions. that's happening live in these moments. >> i wonder also whether we might finally get an answer to that story that's been out there for some time, about whether or not rod rosenstein actually

offered to wear a wire to potentially gather information on the president and try to invoke the 25th amendment. >> would probably well. full disclosure added and friends, rod and i were colleagues factoring the whitewater investigation. >> ed: secretary esper is at the podium so let's go there live. >> racism is real in america and we must all do our very best and i've always been proud to be a member of the institution in the united states military, and that's hate and discrimination in all forms. more often than not we have lead on these issues and while we still have much to do on this front, leaders across dod and the services take the responsibility seriously and we

are determined to take a difference. every member of this department has sworn an oath to uphold and defend all the constitutions of the united states of america. i've taken this oath many times beginning at the age of 18 when i entered west. the rights that are embedded in this great document begin with first amendment which guarantees the five freedoms of speech, religion, press, assembly and the right to petition the government. united states military is sworn to defend these and all other rights and we encouraged americans at all times to exercise them peacefully. it is these rights and freedoms that make our country so special and it is these rights and freedoms that american service members are willing to fight and die for. at times however the united states military has asked in support of governors and law enforcement to help maintain

law and order so that other americans can exercise their rights to free from violence against themselves or their property. that is what thousands of guardsmen are doing today and cities across america. it is not something we seek to do, but it is our duty and he did it with the utmost skill and professionalism. i was reminded of that monday as i visited our national guardsmen who were on duty monday night protecting our most hollowed grounds and monuments. i'm very proud of the men and women of the national guard who are out on the streets today performing this important task and in many ways at the risk of their own welfare. i've always believed and continue to believe that the national guard is best suited for performing domestic support to civil authorities in these situations. in support of local law enforcement. i say this not only as secretary of defense but also as a former

soldier and a former member of the national guard. the option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire situations. we are not in one of the situations now. i do not support invoking the insurrection act. last night a story came out based on a background interview i did early in the day and it focused on the events last monday evening in lafayette park. i found that to be inaccurate in part so i want to stay very clearly for all to hear, my account of what happened that monday afternoon. i did know that following the president's remarks that many of us were going to join president trump and reviewed the damage at lafayette park and st. what i was not aware of, with

the plans were once they got there. and , that's what they were posted. they do not fire river bullets or tear gas into the crowded. fourth, it wasn't until

yesterday afternoon and thus hovered over a city block in in d.c. which is an hour or so of you learning this. i directed the secretary of the army to an inquiry which determines what happened and why" back to me. you all have been very generous with your time to let me wrap up by stating again how very proud i am of men and women in unifo uniform. all the while many of the fellow guardsmen are deployed abroad defending against america's real adversaries. most importantly i want to ensure all of you and all americans that the department of defense and armed services are uniform leaders, our civilian leaders and i take seriously our oath to support and defend the

constitution of the united states and to safeguard those very rights contained in that document that we cherish so dearly. this is a tough time for our great country these days, but we will get through it. my hope is that instead of the violence in the streets we will see peaceful demonstrations that honor george floyd. at that press for accountability for his murder, that move us to reflect about racism in america and serves as a call to action for us to come together and address the problem once and for all. this is the america your military represents. this is the america we aspire to be and this is the america that we are committed to defending their lives. thank you. >> we will go to the phones. >> ed: if you've been watching a rather extraordinary news conference there and, tear god

gas and bullets, that's where they are aware of heading every night. they are clearly stating he does not support invoking the resurrection. so let's quickly listen to those questions. they continue to try to do that as well as the leaders here the department.

>> could you address, there's been a lot of criticism of the use of the work battle states, where people are protesting. when you talk about, keeping the military political, how do you see the department navigating this when the response to protests becomes part of the issue. >> i will take your second question first. that is the challenge. there is a political tone to this, election approaches and it's always a challenge for every department of defense and every election year.

this will be the ongoing challenge. i was quoted as saying, that was by dominating the battle space. probably all of you use this phrase often. that's something you understand that most people don't understand. it's part of our military lexicon that i grew up with, and it's not a phrase to focus on people and certainly not on our fellow americans. it's a phrase i use over the weekend when speaking with minnesota governor walls, we spoke a couple of these and, that was only a few short days ago where minneapolis was the epicenter and all eyes were focused on minnesota.

i was complementing him, the looters and others are breaking the law so i was giving them credit for that. that's something that, peaceful demonstrators share their frustration and of their anger. that's what i was encouraging others to consider. in retrospect i would use different wording, and some are suggesting that we militarize the issue. >> thank you very much. some of the people that criticize you for the term of the battle states are some of america's most former respected generals, if i could move on to

the situation at lafayette square, there are such strong measures and pushing back the protesters, did you express any concern that that is what needs to happen to make that photo op possible? >> thanks for the question. i was not aware of law enforcement's plans for the park and was not briefed on them nor should i expect to be about they had taken what action i assumed they felt was necessary given what they faced, i was not briefed on the plans and was not aware of what they were doing. >> all right. mr. secretary, thanks for their time. i realize you are trying to keep the department out of politics but it's weak to say anything along the lines, and your strong comments this morning about george floyd.

in light of the more than 200 black service members in uniform, why did it take so lo long? >> you have may have written about this and as you said, it's very hard these days as we move closer and closer to an election. that means there are times to speak up and times not to and as i assert in my early remarks what happened to george floyd happens way too often in these countries and many times we don't speak about it as a department. but as events have unfolded over the last few days, it has become very clear that this has become a very combustible national issue. what i want to do, the moment had reached a point where it warranted a clear message to the department about our approach. and so given the names i wanted

to leader, you all should have seen it and it went out, this piece of paper. my message to the forest which i thought was the proper tone for our service members and giving my leaders the space to also craft similar messages expressing our outrage at what happened and our commitment to the constitution, expressing our commitment as an institution to end racism and hatred in all its forms and it just a general expression with regard to what the department is about. so that is the timeline, at the end, if you well. i do that with great counsel for my advisors. >> several of the chiefs were interested in speaking up sooner. sometimes when you say nothing

that something to itself. >> general milley, we talked to the chiefs. most of the chiefs wanted to take the lead for me and, i was going to take -- send the initial message out to set the tone and express my views and give them the space to share their reviews as well to do so. again, we are a week into this and when we look at what's escalated it's been a a matter of 72 hours or maybe 96 or so. we've been consumed with a lot of things between now and then but i do think it's important to speak up and speak out and to share what we do again as an institution. the racism that exists in america and how we do it as an institution, i think we have lead on these issues over the history of the united states military and will continue to do so certainly while i am at the helm. >> all right.

one more. if not tom, then nick shivered. >> thank you very much for doing this. if i could take you back to the other night i know you'd said you didn't know exactly what the plans were but with all due respect those plans were designed by the commander-in-chief and also by bill barr. and the cabinet secretary and someone who is in the command center with you. how could you not know about those plans and what does it say about those plans tuples clear the park and do with the president data. number two, i know you are conducting an inquiry on the use of the helicopter and you may not want to say this but you agree it was appropriate to use the medevac helicopter?

>> with regard to what you stated, i encourage you to speak to the department of justice. i have not yet arrived at the command post, i was in route to the command post when i was asked to return to the white house to update the president. i got back to the white house and within a short period of time, the president went out to give his remarks. there was no space in between there, no opportunity to get a briefing. know what i expect to get a briefing on what the law enforcement community was plenty to do with regard to the clearing of the park. it was not a military decision or military action in the national guard was there in support of the law enforcement. i would ask that an inquiry be made and i want to make sure why, what happened, what orders where they given or not given. was there a safety issue involved, and i spoke to

secretary mccarthy about it, and he's digging into it and look at the facts. and we will go back there. >> thanks mr. secretary. so you served in the d.c. national guard, and to follow on the question, secondly, as this goes on, we've asked the secretary of the army to look into this, was a helicopter under the authority of justice, that's this kind of murkiness. >> these are some of the details we have to tease out, and that of the request of law enforcement, and you made a statement, and i think we need

to let that. >> i think it looks unsafe to me. and then we come back. that was my understanding -- i'm sorry, but i need to actually had to the white house so i wanted to wrap up by saying something directly to the men and women of the department of the defense. and that's today's trying times from repatriating and sheltering americans are back from the

foreign land to deliver food and medical supplies to those in need of. and every challenge and across every mission, and as i remember in february, i ask that you remember as a department and as public servants to stay apolitical in these turbulent days. the united states military has earned the respect of the american people by being there to protect and serve all americans. we will safeguard the hard-earned trust and confidence of our nation's most respected institution. thank you. >> ed: so even more news from the from the defense secretary. they are now investigating why a medical helicopter was used a couple of nights ago, to deal with protesters.

that's battle space in terms of using the military, and also he was saying he was not aware there would be a photo op outside of st. john's church. he said the president and other officials might be thinking that national guard personnel that were in lafayette park to secure things. let's bring in our panel, the biggest headline of all as we have seen is that the defense secretary is laying down a marker that he does not support invoking the insurrection act. and that sending active-duty u.s. forces into u.s. cities. as a secretary says are now headed to the white house and he has a lot to discuss with the president. >> you are right, to pinpoint god, that comes from military aid and leaders who are talking to the defense secretary and felt very uncomfortable about the road this was heading as far

as the u.s. military overall. and, that lays the marker for the defense secretary. the rest of this news conference is as far as the characterizations he's made it, and also about what he said was a background interview about his discussions and thoughts about going over to lafayette park. some defense secretary is like to be in the spotlight or don't want my debt. don rumsfeld, leon panetta, five gates. others like to be under the radar. this was clearly an uncomfortable press briefing that he had to do. >> sandra: a very interesting. we go back to just the other day in the rose garden on the president talked about and

called upon them, he made big news saying they would not support the insurrection act >> there's been a lot of discussion about the president. in this case, sort of delineating and this is where we stand as the department of defense. we do not think this is the most efficient use of the military. and i agree, he's stepping out here in a way that was seen in these news conference this morning. also, he pointed out that

general millie and i this is part of the suggestion that he makes. they are going out to think the national guard and i sort of wonder if that wouldn't have been a good thing to do in the middle of that photo op. that would have been the nice moment to have seen the head of the department of defense and the chairman's joint chief of staff and president thanking them and supporting them in the love that. it seems that a lot of the details were not that i clearly thought through and that's what we are hearing from the secretary of defense here today. >> we originally heard that general milley would be at this news conference with secretary esper and he was not in the end of the news conference. so the secretary invoking the general and, that might also -- in the meantime let's get to judge ken starr. let's quickly -- we want to get to this hearing with rod rosenstein, but we want to

let you tee up what you are expecting. >> above all, the phis application process, and they did sign off in june of 2017, the third extension, and we know that the here is what i expect i have to rely on the professionalism of the fbi. and it was let down terribly by the fbi leadership and the specific agents who were involved in doctoring the record, unfairly to carter page and unleashing what i think bill barr has rightly called spying on the campaign, and

that's not my view but that's what michael horowitz and the inspector general concluded in his magnificent and devastating report. >> certainly a lot to discuss this morning. >> as you have now seen, he is on capitol hill this morning for the senate judiciary committee of which lindsey graham is the chairman. >> published by the inspector general. those investigative reviews are revealed that the fbi was not following the protocols and at significant errors appeared in classifications >> senators,

whenever agents or prosecutors make serious mistakes, the department of justice needs to take remedial action. those policies need to be changed. ensuring the integrity of government processes is essential to promoting public confidence. and our law enforcement agencies are filled with men and women who act with integrity.

we watch them deal with extraordinarily difficult circumstances throughout the country this week and we should take this opportunity to let them know that they have our appreciation and our support. in conclusion, i know that the members of this committee share a commitment to the principles and the department of justice, and i look forward to addressing their questions. >> i want to echo what you said, most fbi agents in most law enforcement officers risk their lives to do a job to protect the country and we appreciate them. but every now and then, things get off script and that's what brings us here today. you signed a warrant application in june of i think 2017 to get the carter page should warrant renewed, is that correct? have you looked at the horowitz report? >> yes i have, i have it with me. >> if you knew then what you

know now, what you have signed the warrant application? >> know i would not. >> and the reason is because exculpatory information was halted from his report, someone actually altered in? >> correct. >> so there were 17 violation, i can't stress enough to the country that he found the most egregious of all. the dossier was the only carter page warrant did you know that, you didn't know that, did you? >> i hope not, i do not

personally know. >> did he lie to you? >> mr. mccabe, i don't believe there are any situations in which i indicated he lied to him. >> okay, wit was or anything log back that are flexing to you? >> i believed senator that mr. mccabe was not fully candid with me. certainly wasn't forthcoming. in particular senator with regard to mr. cummings memoranda and interviews with the president and with regard to the fbi, suspicions about the president, for at least a week after he became acting director, despite the fact that he had repeated conversations focusing on this investigation and for whatever reason mr. mccabe was not forthcoming with me about

that. his team had been leading up to certain important decisions for some time and from my perspective they have been conducting this investigation for i believe approximately nine months. >> how much did that factor into the warrant application which was accurate? >> i wouldn't say that i relied on mr. mccabe's statements, i certainly have an understanding of what mr. mccabe had told me. the document stands for itself, it's 100 pages and i relied on what to be understood in the application. >> you did a scope letter i think august 17 after you appointed mueller, you know what i'm talking about, a memorandum i suppose. we prepared that? >> senator, i don't know exactly who prepared it but i know how it came about. let me mention how quickly i can do it.

i asked him to look at the hole, to look at the relevant matters. >> did it come from the mueller team? >> the team that you sent that interface with the mueller tea team, -- >> i think it's important to recognize, one of the reasons that i was reluctant to release these documents publicly, we investigate people who are not necessarily guilty. i didn't have any presumption that these folks were guilty of anything. >> did you believe they committed a crime? >> i believe there was predication. >> gave you that predication? >> it was information that came to me from the fbi.

>> is it from peter strzok and lisa page, were they in charge or where they stilled investigators for mueller early on? >> my understanding is that mr. pag they were working with . >> what information if they had any, were detained in the memo? >> i don't know that. >> i'm sorry, which memo are we talking about? >> the one where they lay out the scope of the investigation. >> that came with the discussions -- >> dated anyone on your team recommend -- where did the idea that george papadopoulos working with the russians came from? >> these matters senator i believe were already open. >> the point is they were open, these were the same people doing crossfire hurricane and they give you a document to sign and here's my beliefs, they prepare the document that they defined

the scope of the their own investigation. is that fair to say? you were just a conduit for it? >> i'm relying on information is coming up, and it, just like you did with the warrant we also gave the scope investigation for mueller, so that's why we are here to find out how much we can trust these people. what was the crime that you were looking at that's required. >> this particular case, yes. of the original crime, the

underlying crime was the russian influence and operation. >> can you tell us what evidence existed that general flynn was colluding with the russians in may of 2017? >> the evidence against genera general flynn -- >> what evidence existed that general flynn was colluding the with the russians in may of 2017. did you know that january 4th 2017, the fbi field office said we recommend that general flynn be removed from crossfire hurricane? >> no i did not. >> okay. what that have mattered if you had known that? >> yes. >> i never worked with the russians, and if the campaign did it, that would be treason. did you know that carter page -- how many times did carter page

meet with donald trump? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> i can tell you, zero. in any meaningful way. the dossier claims that carter page, and, there is zero evidence that they were working with the russians and this went on for two years. people had their lives turned upside down, general flynn on january 4th 2017, the fbi agents who had been looking at him said they recommended to be dropped and the seventh floor wants to

look for him. if you had known that, would you have asked more questions? >> yes. >> okay. anyway, thank you for your service. and given the fact that all of the people named in this scope letter, there are like zero evidence by januar january the remaining 2017, and the first two are whether the investigation is appropriate. the decision that i made -- that any of the people they were actively working with the russians in august of 2017.

what was it the investigation >> why did we have the mueller investigation at all that we concluded they weren't working with the russians? >> i don't believe we have concluded it at the time. >> the fbi had investigated, the russian dossier was a bunch of garbage. george papadopoulos was all over the place not knowing he was being recorded denying working with the russians and no one has ever been prosecuted for working with the russians. the point is, the whole concept that the campaign was colluding with the russians, there was no they are, they are, and august

of 2017. do you agree with that general statement, or not? >> i agree with that general statement >> thank you. >> thank you and welcome. i would like to begin with the impact of the steele dossier if i might. inspector general horowitz confirmed that the crossfire hurricane investigation was opened because the fbi was told the trump campaign advisor george papadopoulos had advanced knowledge that russia was planning to release stolen emails to harm clinton. that was cited in the

carter page phis applications, the president and his allies falsely claimed that the entire russia investigation was started because the steele dossier would have never have happened if it hasn't been for his reporting. you appointed special council mueller, and please can you identify for us any findings in his 440 page report that rely on information from the steele dossier? >> i don't believe there is such information. >> thank you. can you identify which of the 199 criminal counts rely on information from the steele dossier? >> i don't believe that it was relied upon. >> thank you.

can you identify investigative steps that rely on information and the steele dossier? >> i wouldn't know the answer to that in regard to individual steps. >> thank you. did special counsel mueller ever art -- >> i never had that discussion. >> did he ever indicates that there was not a legitimate reason to investigate ties between the trump campaign and russia? >> never indicated that, senator, there is not a legitimate reason to complete the investigation. >> did you ever have any concerns, the president or his campaign? >> i talked about it ensuring that there was no bias in the investigation. as we know, we did have an issue

with one of the agents and another fbi employee, and their political views, they set that aside and make sure that it was not affected by any bias. >> do you believe that was carried out? >> i do because i have confidence in his integrity. >> do you believe it was a hoax or a witch hunt or deep state conspiracy? >> i do not believe the investigation was a hoax, but with regard to the allegations, keep in mind to those allegations are coming from other sources and i can't vouch for those other allegations. >> you signed off on, that was believed to be legitimate.

>> everything i approved, everything came to my attention that i thought was legitimate. >> thank you, senator grassley. the fbi notes that show they deliberately set flynn up to prosecute him. and three the fbi had no derogatory information on flynn.

that's the records from congress and flames legal team. in my other oversight requests. that would be the facts contained in the plea agreement. in light of all the brady material, that has finally been released, it was clear that you were misleading mean, congress and the american people when you suggested that you should be satisfied with flynn's plea agreement. the whole point of the mueller investigation was to uncover interference in the 2016 election.

and remember, that's the same dossier that was paid for to investigate the origin and if not, why not. >> if i could just address that briefly, my view was, the case was pending in court and when the case is pending in court, we let the judicial process work through. and that's why i was reluctant to disclose information, not that i was concealing anything. i honestly didn't know that there was an exculpatory evidence, and with regard to the evidence that is in the record now, i'm not going to express my

opinion about that. and much of that was news to me. with regard to the other question that you asked, keep in mind that my goal with regard to the special counsel is to keep that investigation focused and get it resolved as expeditiously as possible. i knew that an investigation of the steele dossier and the origin of the russian investigation would be far more complicated and take far more time. and, we believe, and that's a reasonable decision. so i did not ask director mueller to do that. i'm grateful that we wrapped up the phase in 22 months and if there's other information to be uncovered i'm confident it will be uncovered. >> when you approved the fourth

and final fisa against carter page were you aware that intelligence reports, we warned that the steele dossier was a product of russian disinformation? were you also aware that the steel's report were fully verified and that some of the sources supported clinton? if so, why did you approve it? i reviewed a lot of applications during my tenure. my understanding is what's in the affidavits is verified. that was the nonsense, and that's not in the phis

application. that was verified information, and that's not just information >> the day before, and, sometimes the moment chooses us. what were you referring to and did you discuss appointing mueller with any obama

administration officials, and if so, who. we found emails were very useful evidence and sometimes they can be misleading and out of context. if you find a time to explain, i had talked to director mueller about the possibility. and it was really determining whether i have the option or had made a decision. jeff sessions as many of you know it's one of the most principled people i ever met in washington. he recused from that investigation and his decision was -- so what happened that there was general sessions had reached out independently to director moeller and asked him to come in to give advice about a new fbi director. there's a lot of things going on at the department of that time at one of them was the

appointment of a new selection of candidates from the new fbi director. so then, the email which some of the media misconstrued, i was simply alerting director mueller. when you talk to the boss, attorney general sessions, keep in mind he doesn't know anything about the russian investigation. it's actually a very innocent email. that's a little bit longer of a story but it also related to the search for an fbi director. i believe when i sent that email i was in white house counsel's office and i was meeting with the deputy white house counsel who are talking about potential candidates for an fbi director and i have been speaking with the former deputy attorney general that you have in mind to try to encourage him. i was lobbying to get him to apply for the job and i asked

greg katz and encouraged him to apply. i said, i needed to step up and i was encouraging him. i certainly understand out of context how it looks it looks nefarious but i can assure you senator, i've been in the department for 30 years. those emails are all reserved. i wouldn't be putting anything nefarious in the emails, but i certainly would be putting it into the imo. >> thank you for being here. i have not been shy about the fact, i even noted it and i joined to the op-ed in "the washington post" last month that the fbi has made serious mistakes during the surveillance

of the former trump campaign advisor carter page. the fisa renewal application presented for approval in june 2,017th, which is one of those. the committee is hearing after inspector general released his 478 page report and said that you had that with you. crossfire hurricane became the broader russia investigation. counterintelligence investigation to paul manafort, all were convicted of felonies. the only time as i understand that the fbi applied for a fisa surveillance order, the only time they did was with respect to carter page. it is that correct? >> that's my understanding. >> in the 17 errors the

inspector general found with respect to the carter page fives application all came after. so it would not impact the broader russia investigation. that correct? >> i believe that is correct. >> now, the mueller report is 440 pages. do you know how many pages of the 448 referred to carter page? >> i do not. i will let you know, 87. and, that's the fives application itself is flawed. the inspector general found at the 29 fbi applications they

reviewed 25 or 86% of them they had an average of 20 issues each. that's what i mean about this green tea. now the intelligence community made in an animus assessment that was shared by bipartisan income of republicans and democrats alike,and russia inter elections. do you believe that the fbi's errors in the carter page and yes, i do agree. so we do have the unanimous assessment within the intelligence community and the republicans and democrats on the senate intelligence community.

they interfered our election the trump campaign welcomed and attempted to exploit, any argument suggesting that the russian investigation should have never occurred and the american people should be in the dark about russians interference, i find that deeply troubling. i believe that serves plan republicans interest more than ours. that would include them interfering with free and fair. for a while the supervisor, the special counsel reported to you. before you saw any indictments, the special counsel provided you

with an explanation of his decisions, as well as paul manafort, michael flynn and george papadopoulos. is that correct? >> that's true that i didn't object but i don't sign the indictments. i was not aware of any rejection. >> and while supervising the russian investigation, to take an investigative stop or pursue indictment. i want the chairman to notice. like my colleagues on the other side, i kept it at exactly 5 minutes. >> use of the standard for the rest of us. he did mention a very important

point and i can't remember what it was. >> i know you have dedicated almost your entire adult life to serving at the department of justice and i know you love and revere that institution and i can only imagine how disappointing it must be to you following the revelations of the inspector general's report and other investigations and that is leading up to the trump campaign. first of all let me take you back to director comey. you wrote a memo in 2017 recommending to president trump

that he fire directors comey, correct? >> exactly. and your principal concern as i recall it in that memo was director comey usurped the role of the department of justice when he held a press conference on july 2016 where he said that hillary clinton was extremely reckless in the way she handled her email server. but he said no reasonable prosecutor to prosecute her and thus in the process of same, she's probably not going to get charged with the crime, but nevertheless let me tell you about all the derogatory information. that was in violation of the norms and the rules and regulations of the department of justice, correct? and you concluded in your memo

to attorney general sessions that he would probably do that again since he saw nothing wrong with the way he handled that. correct? >> i don't recall my exact words but i do have it in front of me. i think it's a lessons or so. it's important that we have an fbi director that recognizes that that was wrong, yes, sir. >> so that was an example of the fbi getting involved in the midst of presidential political campaign and holding a press conference talking about derogatory information but then same no reasonable prosecutor with prosecute. could you explain to us why it's important that the department of justice including the fbi doesn't get involved in the middle of political campaigns? >> one obviously is the sensitivity about campaigns and the other is the principle that the department of justice

doesn't disparage people. if they determine that they believe the evidence warrants prosecution, and if we don't indict people, senator, it's not our job to disparage people. we conduct investigations, and we don't. >> given the department of policy of justice, to attempt and influence those, it strikes me as unprecedented. in the 2016 time frame we have open investigations of both candidates running for preside

president. we talked about the steele dossier, but as you know, at the time christopher steele wasn't on the opposition research, and he was also retained as a confidential source for the fbi. is that correct? >> i don't know all the details but, what was the basis for reit and that was incredible. the inspector general suggests that they misstated that or overstated their basis for believing he was credible.

>> they noted that, they may pass some information useful to the fbi, do you remember that? >> so at the same time it was a confidential human source, on the payroll, and he was ultimately terminated by the fbi for violating, and that was bruce ohr. >> that is my understanding. generally i believe that's correct. if we could put footnote 350 on the vaccine, i asked attorney general barr back in may of 2019, can we state with any confidence that this was not

part of the russian misinformation campaign? >> that's one of the areas that i am reviewing, and i don't think it's entirely speculative. well, we know who is in charge of the counterintelligence commission, that they were a part of a russian disinformation campaign and come up with and thanks to the diligence of senator grassley and senator johnson and the director of national intelligence we now have a copy of the less redacted. at that point out if you can see it, that not only did steele have regular interaction with russian oligarchs, that there was potential information, potential for russian disinformation influencing steels reporting. they did not have high

confidence that the that that was part of a russian disinformation campaign to denigrate u.s. and foreign relations. so mr. rosen sign, it strikes me that mr. putin must be extraordinarily pleased with how all this plays out. not only was hillary clinton and her campaign disparaged, not only was president trump can disparaged and put through what can only describe be described as when in fact the source of some of the information that was used but to conduct a counterintelligence investigation may in fact have been part of a russian disinformation campaign. does that concern you? >> i met a bit of a disadvanta

disadvantage, and as you know i have been gone for about 15 months. and and whether they were the point i was trying to make it as a crossfire hurricane investigation based almost entirely on the allegations of christopher steele and the sources he provided which may have been part of the russian

disinformation campaign which had successfully divided the country and created a lot of chaos in the ensuing three and a half years. thank you, mr. chairman. >> whether it's a russian disinformation or other disinformation, where did it come from and why it wasn't submitted to, i think that's an appropriate area of investigation and i just don't know what the evidence reflects. >> thank you mr. rosenstein. i miss baseball. broadcasting old baseball games now and i'm watching, but people that are tuned into the securing over a c-span of the senate judiciary committee must think they are watching a rerun. a classic hearing several years

ago on the mueller report, this is the priority of the senate judiciary committee today, today and june the 2020. those who tuned in might have expected that they would have a hearing concerning the public health crisis facing america. at the pandemic which we are fighting every day which is claimed over hundred thousand american lives. and, they we are not. we might even wonder if we would take up the issue of the administration of justice in america.

and we would have a a federal military, certainly it's a significant constitutional issue. the investigation was completed more than a year. we are taking it up because it has become a plenty shirt on the right. but the quote and the department of justice press conference about the investigation, mr. rosenstein, which you were in charge of. it was a grave injustice and, the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus of this country were involved in advancing the false and utterly baseless russian collusion narrative against president. the proper investigative and prosecution standards of the department of justice were abused in my view, in order to

reach a particular result. mr. rosenstein, the attorney general of the united states carded a false and utterly baseless russian collusion narrative against the president. and there have been other things said, to come up to the chairman of the committee. on december the 9th, describe the russian intelligence investigation as an endeavor that "became a criminal conspiracy to defraud the court to trample on the rights of the american citizen. they talked about whether the initiative as an unlawful predicate to appoint him to begin with. they called up the hurricane cross fire one of the most corrupt, biased investigations in the history of the fbi. is that the investigation that you were in charge of? he was conducted by an individual he personally selected. do you consider it to be an

utterly baseless, corrupt criminal investigation as you reflect on it today? >> i do not consider the investigation to be corrupt, but i would certainly understand -- i understand the president's frustration given the outcome which was in fact that there was no evidence of conspiracy between trump campaign advisors and russia. >> we are about to embark on investigation which may be the largest investigation i've ever witnessed here. the chairman issued 53 subpoenas for witnesses. that began with an impeachment trial for the republican refused to produce one document or one witness, not one witness, when it came to questions of the impeachment for the president. they will not be cleared with the minority, as i understand

the proposal of the chairman, he alone will have the authority on which ones to call. we will attempt to amend his subpoena on the democratic side to make sure that if we are clearly trying to find the truth in this matter about whether this was an utterly baseless investigation, we believe we should also be calling a few other witnesses. how about michael cohen, who negotiated the trump tower in moscow deal, and perhaps paul manafort repeatedly passing, and that is russian intelligence ties. and they have russian intelligence ties. rick gates and deputy chairman who instructed paul manafort to feed camping information, and george papadopoulos whose comments prompted the opening investigation. echo flynn and roger stone,

there are more on the list. if we truly want to get to the bottom of this and bring all the witnesses in as to whether this was a baseless claim of russian collusion, certainly we want the record to be complete, don't we? don't we want witnesses to give us complete testimony? let me ask you the bottom line question. if they reach some very different conclusions. in light of any wrongdoing in the fisa court involving carter page and others and all the information you know today, mr. rosenstein, you disagree with the key finding of mr. and mueller -- >> i agree with that finding. >> and worked to secure that

outcome. i have no reason to dispute that. that was involved in his report. >> what are you referring to? >> it's page one, volume one, pages one and two. >> i'm not sure what you are reporting from the report, but i have it in front of me end. >> within the report, volume one, pages one and two. trump campaign welcomed and expected from russian

interference. you disagree with that finding? >> i apologize third, i'm not seeing those words in the repo report. >> i don't have it at the moment in front of me but i will produce it. do you disagree with the mueller report conclusion for the trump campaign press strategy, communications based on the possible release of clinton emails by wikileaks? volume one, page 54. >> that says according to mr. gates, that is attributed to mr. gates and i don't think that's a finding of mueller. >> do you have any reason to believe it's not true? >> no information other than the fact that the witness sent it.

>> it has been parsed and analyzed and the bottom line, and conclusions have not been disputed. although there may have been some wrongdoing involving any one person in, it is still -- it boggles the mind of that the attorney general of the united states would say this is baseless. ideal. >> thank you. and i will turn to -- >> ed: dick durbin basically calling this a rerun, and that there may have been wrongdoing by someone in the fbi. and not noted here, there is an important revelation that the very top of the hearing. chairman lindsey graham press rod rosenstein about whether or not he would still sign off on

that warrant, and that was a very clear rosenstein under oa oath. that's a first time we've heard that from rosenstein other under oath.

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>> sandra: senator mike lee now asking questions of rod rosenstein as the senate judiciary committee hearing continues on capitol hill. let's listen. >> the process isn't fair, simply to provide cover to do something awful come process is there ideally one would hope to make sure the rule of law is collected. >> before he became the acting attorney general in this context, didn't you at some point get cents for the politicization within the fbi at the top level of the fbi, even beyond jim comey? there was a targeting of the presidential candidate between the president of the united states? >> i did not have that impression. >> what was a legal basis for appointing robert mueller, and

didn't become concerned at some point, let's take for example mr. wiseman. mr. wiseman is now fund-raising for joe biden, and, did that bother you that their political ideology would matter. >> if they follow the rules and political ideology would matter? >> senator i had a bob mueller in charge of this. i'm fairly confident that the political bias wouldn't have mattered. give me back to the fis

application process. why didn't you urge the court given the obvious sensitivities of this investigation? >> senator i have to tell you in context, you asked me about reading the fisa. there are a lot of phis applications that come through, some more than others. i already knew about it because of the investigation, but most of the applications that have been presented to me on the last eyes on them before presented to the board and i don't know much about them. this one they gave to me in advance so i be familiar with it, not sure i read every page but i was only with what was in. and, already had been approved three times and this was the reauthorization.

what's the difference? >> lying is when you asked someone a direct question and you get a false answer. i believe that, i need to know about his memos. he didn't understand that and he did not tell that to me until a couple of hours before they showed up in "the new york times." >> so what and when did he tell you, and he waited for at least a week before telling you about some of the related insurgents. were you his boss? so we had a he had an obligation to tell you. >> i don't know if he had a legal obligation about my philosophy as a manager was that you had the responsibility to tell the boss things that you know they need to know and that's a pretty important thing that would have needed to know.

>> so that would have been regarded as material, the omission of that had you been aware for of it would have been grounds for termination. >> if i had asked him and he had been misrepresented, yes. >> thank you mr. chairman, i see my time has expired. >> thank you mr. chairman, welcome back to the incredible shrinking judiciary committee. we used to have a say in circuit court nominees and now, nothing protects them even having to come from states, we gave that away. we use to oversee executive privilege, and we used to screen out extremists and unqualified judges and i was hard to see any bottom to whom we will confirm that we gave that away. we face the danger now in this historic committee will begin to

run political investigatory errands. i think facing that risk it is worth having some assurances about how this is going to be conducted. and i say this based on the experience of looking at the house intelligence committee and of the republican side of the document, and its efforts to disparage and interfere with the mueller campaign. that has not yet been fully investigated. i don't believe that mueller investigated any linkage between the house intelligence committee republicans efforts and the white house, or their efforts and of trump's lawyers, but i strongly suspect that the house intelligence committee republicans were advised, controlled, or directed by trump lawyers either in the white house or on the trump

legal team. end of that sorry experience, if that is in fact the case, again investigation would reveal it. it should not be replicated in the senate judiciary committee. i hope that we can receive appropriate assurances here that whatever investigation we undertake will not be controlled by the trump white house and will not be controlled by the campaign. as we pursue this oversight, one other aspect of the incredible shrinking judiciary committee as we use to require the fbi and of the department of justice to answer our questions and now we just get ignored. there is a been some place that the fbi and department of justice into which our questions thrown. mr. rosenstein, you were sworn

in on february 1st of 2017, he resigned from the department on may 11th, 2019. in between those dates we had hearings on may 2nd to come up 2017, may 24th 2017, june 27th 2017, october 182017, december 62017, fairbury 62018, march 132018, june 12th 2018, june 182018, june 26th 2018, july 18, 2018, july 31, 2019. december 122018 and may 1st 2019 with the department of justice witnesses, and none of the committee questions for the record were answered. ever. none. can you explain why that took place under your watch?

where was the policy not to answer these committee's questions. did it come from you or the attorney general, and where was that policy founded. >> senator, i recall answering some correspondence. >> letters were a whole separate issue, i have whole separate case on those but i'm focusing now on can be questions for the record. where's the policy from. >> these are the ones that i listed it, and all in all of them are no questions were

answered. >> i think there is a policy, and that's the only explanation unless you think it's a coincidence that in all those hearings know if you files got answered. something is up and it makes me really frustrating. that's february 11th of this year because it has gotten so frustrating that there is a policy somewhere in this administration not to answer committee qfr's. and now, we can't even get a qs are. that's the exact thing that the trump campaign wants us to investigate. the only time we ask for anything from this department is when it is a political errand. every other time we cannot get a decent queue of our answered, ever. and i can go through the letters

that i haven't gotten any answer to either. there is a stone wall and we should not be selective about whose information gets through the stonewall at and this, mr. rosenstein, happened on the watch. my time is up >> senator cruz. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> oh, may i ask jake ufr as to what the heck is going on with our nonresponse to ufr's? that may go through the department of justice as well? >> the end of a policy and yet

it is someone's policy and, that's the questions about the court case. so that's a point well made. senator cruz? >> prior to 2016 and 2017, the worst known absence of abuse of power, that targets his political enemies. by any measure what the obama-biden administration did in 2016 and 2017 makes everything richard nixon even contemplated pale in comparison.

the obama administration was targeted, they targeted president trump in his campaign. the department of justice, the fbi and the intelligence community and the decision-making ability to do so went right up to the very top. we know that on january 4th 2017, the fbi concluded in the document that has just been released that general michael flynn was "no longer a viable candidate to be part of this larger case. their investigation did not yield any information on which to predicate further investigative efforts. the fbi is closing this investigation. that was january 4th, 2017. the next day james comey and the director of the fbi is sitting in the oval office with

barack obama with joe biden and with james comey. and a memo from susan rice, one of the most remarkable cia memo was written in washington, in her last day in office and emailed herself, saying by the way this investigation into the national security advisor coming into the new office, the president has said do it "by the book." he said that three times. unless the book and there is james comey telling barack obama we are going after general flynn, a decorated three-star general. with joe biden sitting right there nodding along, joe biden himself personally unmasks

michael flynn's name that's the world that you came into, that's a department of justice that you came into. >> i have read most of it. >> you have read the 17 repeated material misstatements documented within the inspector general reports. >> i have read those, yes. >> one of those is a lawyer fraudulently altering an email that became the predicate for a sworn statement in the fisa court. >> that is in the inspector general's report. >> >> every instance that i'm aware of would be appropriately investigated and hopefully appropriate action will be taken

>> mr. rosenstein? on may 17th you appointed bob mueller the special counsel. on june 29 you signed the third phis application. on august 2nd 2 signed second scope application. you came into a profoundly politicized world and yet all of this was allowed to go forward under your leadership that unfortunately leads to only two possible conclusions. either that you were complicit in the wrongdoing, which i don't believe is the case, or that your performance of your duties was grossly negligent. was there any more important case that a department of justice had that an investigation into whether the department of the united states is a russian asset colluding against the states? >> well that's the way you are characterizing the investigation, senator. lots of important investigations but i have viewed this as one of

the most important. >> you just told senator lee that you read the phis application. did you know the primary source behind of the steele dossier had disavowed it and said it's not true? >> at the time i reviewed it, not sure i read every word but i reviewed it and no, i did not know that. >> at the time reviewed it did you know there was significant scope exculpatory material? at the time. it did you know that a lawyer on your staff have fraudulently offered material as a basis for a fisa application? >> that lawyer was on my staff but i was not aware of it. >> that was paid for by the dnc did you ask any of those questions >> that was the

information represented to me and verified and i would anticipate senator that if somebody knew that it wasn't for that there was some issue about the credibility, informant or the accuracy of the evidence. >> mr. rosenstein when you are going into the department that has been politicized i understand it's easier not to rock the vote or not to question people there. you were the acting attorney general of the united states and had a responsibility not to allow political targeting. let me ask you, did it strike you as strange? did it strike you as strange that the fbi and the department of justice was going after a three-star general, the incoming national security advisor to president who already said they were going to dismiss the case against, and the predicate for all of this is the logan act which as you know perfectly well is an unconstitutional law that no one has ever been prosecuted under ministry of justice.

and it should have been left out of the room in any responsible department of justice. that's the incoming national security advisor for violating the logan act which says an american citizen can't talked to a foreign leader and i guarantee you today, john kerry is violating the logan act. it's an unconstitutional law so who cares? but why did you not laugh this out of the room and why did you let this pile of partisan lies consume the country for two years? >> first of all, i think it's accurate to say that we didn't rock the vote. and it wasn't just about the russian investigation, and would

not have been reluctant in any way if i believe something improper was going on. in regard to general flynn, my understanding at the time that i arrived was general flynn had lied to the vice president and the fbi agents i don't know that all the background that appears in the pleading that was filed by the u.s. attorney in d.c. >> but you didn't bother to ask. if you didn't bother to drill in and say, show me the background. this might be the most important case we've got in the whole country, but we do more than just rubber-stamp the doc you put in front of me? >> you always wished you could have done more i still didn't

know everything. >> i have made very clear that i think it's absurd to be having this hearing. i have a hearing in which i participated in a criminal justice reform in a few weeks after the murder of george floyd and my state, i think we could be doing so many other things on the pandemic, on the effect that the pandemic has had on the immigration policy, but we are here today. i thought that was absurd but then i heard senator cruz and i have to say, to compare richard nixon to barack obama, richard nixon who left the white house and disgrace to compare him with president obama who left the white house with the grace and dignity, something we have missed very much especially this week when we saw the president of the united states using the bible as a prop in front of the church in

washington, d.c., after the justice department tear gas to peaceful protesters in order to set the stage for that press conference, no. i would like to let the record reflects that this comparison is not only wrong today between richard nixon and barack obama that it will never stand of the you will appointed special counsel robert mueller to oversee the counterintelligence investigation to ensure it was conducted independently in may of 2017. the special counsel found that russian interference in our election was sweeping and systematic and that the investigation as you know ultimately resulted in 34 indictments of individuals and the convictions of six of president trump's associates and advisors on federal charges. there was a "overwhelming evidence" that russian operatives hacked american

computers and defrauded american citizens" as part of the "comprehensive russian strategy to influence elections, promote social discord and undermine america." he was still agree with that statement mr. mark >> yes i do. >> are you aware of any facts i call into question the finding in special counsel's report that the russian government interfered in the 201 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion, or that the russian government worked to coordinate that outcome? >> i accurately believe that, we can only evaluate the evidence that we have and that's what the intelligence suggests. >> are you aware of any facts that call into question the assessment of fbi director ray, which is by the way backed up by many, many top intelligence officials, that russia's

interference in our elections is ongoing and its interference in the 2018 midterms in christopher wray's, are you aware of anything that russian interference has got stopped? >> i'm not aware of anything has stopped. when i was in office i spent a fair amount of time working with director wray and others trying to combat foreign interference. >> while we by the way have the threat of voter suppression due to this pandemic and other laws, it is critical that we remain focused on the facts. the inspector general's reports found on page 17, the investigation of the crossfire hurricane investigation was opened to determine whether people instead associated with the trump campaign were coordinating with the russian government, do you disagree with

that? >> especially a foreign adversary like russia which would pose a threat to national security. you see this ongoing threat to our democracy. which is why i have advocated so strongly along with senator lankford, that's part of the reason why i think the mail-in ballots in addition to protecting the health and safety of voters would protect us from foreign interference and that's why you have a republican dominated states like utah which has used these mailing ballots and it would be helpful in that way. one other call is the idea here

that we need to continue to see ongoing attempts by foreign governments to influence our elections on social media. senator graham and i and senator warren have put forward the honest ads act, are you familiar with that? >> know i am not. that is the bill that has the same disclosure bills that we have four ads on tv and it would simply require that when someone gets an ad for political campaign or an issue ad that is paid for and meets the federal standards that we would in other forms, we have to have a disclosure for them. and we make a public record of this act. i just want to again remind my colleagues at this bill, it still sitting dormant. i think that when we look at

what the senate intelligence committee just recommended we should bring our laws into the 21st century to ensure that voters that is paying our political system at the very least, and we think it would be helpful to know who is paying for our political system. >> i'm happy to take a look at it. >> really appreciate that, thank >> i want to start by noting -- >> okay, you are listening to the senate judiciary committee hearing that continues on capitol hill. martha maccallum and former independent counsel, we will continue with this hearing in just a few moments he has not

signed off on that pfizer request, if he knows what he knows now. that's the most significant moment. pressing back and forth about, did he actually read that request for carter page, and he said numerous times that he reviewed it. it's kind of chaotic and put a lot of onus on the fbi about their running of this investigation in the early tim times. democrats as we predicted, saying that this is misplaced, and this is the choice of senator lindsey graham and it's just the beginning of these hearings. >> that is the fact that under oath, rod rosenstein is also acknowledged early in the hearing, there is no evidence in early 2017 that there was collusion between trump campaign and russians. we heard lindsey graham and

others saying why in the world will be investigating this for a couple years? >> that the overall tone from republicans just pressing him, and, that was attempting to show that there was spying potentially on presidential campaign. why didn't you poke more, why didn't you know more, and why they were on that team in the early stages of the investigation. it does appear from his answers here this morning, republicans are doing a decent job of playing it out, and at one point we are saying that he was asking that the information was verified. basically he said, i don't know

why we are here, we should be doing that with more important things. >> sandra: we took a quick break a short time ago, and we are going to get to the bottom of it, here's lindsey graham. >> it wasn't the russians who withheld information from the court about general flynn that they were setting him up and out to get him. it was the department of justice, the fbi and it was people who hated trump. people who hated political bias and an agenda to destroy him before he was elected and after he was elected. we are going to get to the bottom of it. >> what have we been able to take away from this hearing so far? >> thus far rod rosenstein is

vigorously defending the mueller report. his appointment of bob mueller, but serious questions have been raised very emphatically. especially the so-called logan act. and that's part of the group, and i was frankly a little disappointed that he did that, but he clearly was very partial to the fbi. the loser today is the fbi under james comey. a lot of very unflattering information was highlighted again and it was essentially andrew mccabe. he may not have lied to me but he certainly was not candid. rod rosenstein made a very important point, not the prosecutor's job to disparage individuals. it will either prosecute bring charges or you don't.

my friends, the entire mueller report is an extravagant exercise and disparagement. the report has been analyzed from the perspective of, all he needed to do was say here is why i brought charges and here's why i did not. instead, the 400 pages go on and on to frankly embarrassed the president of the united states, and i haven't heard that question asked about the mueller report itself and i think it needs to be asked and answered. >> ed: we have just over a minute before we have to get a break, and at one point there was russian propaganda. it was interesting to me that he deferred to john durham and said frankly i've been out of office for a while and i really don't know what john durham is up to >> i think we've all come to that conclusion and there is a lot that we are likely going to

learn from the u.s. attorney john durham. it could be fairly soon, this may track about the timing is this investigation continues and john durham's report will come out. and the attorney general is coming out as well. >> i thought it was interesting when rod rosenstein was asked about the scope memo which was under so much attention, where did you draw the lines of the person who oversaw it. and it lindsey graham sort of put him in a position where he admitted that he sort of left that up to them. and he left that in their corner which i think cuts into the notion of how strong he was in terms of his oversight here. >> well we certainly appreciate all of your oversight. he was the first witness to appear before the panel and talking about all of this, we

appreciate your insights. we will take a quick break and be back on the other side. our confidence is shaken; our hearts cracked. the kind of a crack that comes from the loss of a job; from life plans falling apart. we didn't ask for it... but we are rising to meet it. and how far we've come isn't even close to how far we can go. we just have to remember how patient we were... how strong we can be. (how strong you can be.) and remember this; there's a crack in everything for a reason. how else can the light get in? ♪ tomorrow

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>> another big news day. looking forward to tomorrow. >> the hearing will continue on capitol hill with the senate judiciary committee. to think it was the top of the 10 o'clock hour, we heard from the defense secretary mark asper that doesn't support using the insurrectoin act. >> and meeting with the president as we speak. he was headed over to the white house. what comes out of that?

we will be on top of it all day long. >> absolutely. join us again tomorrow morning. "outnumbered" will begin right now on the fox news channel. >> fox news alert. more protests over the death of george floyd. it was calmer in some cities but in the boston area violent protests carried on. riots and looting. the saks fifth avenue flagship shore boarded up and wrapped in razor wire. stores raceed to protect themselves what has played out across the country this week. president trump issued a warning to local