any good news coming out o out f this, that is something we can take into the weekend. ed, great to be with you all week. >> ed: great to be with you. have a great weekend. >> sandra: you come too. we'll see you monday morning. thanks for joining us. "outnumbered" starts now. >> melissa: fox news alert, president trump vowing not to let "anarchists" occupy downtown seattle after protesters took over a six block area, setting up an autonomous zone around a now-shattered police briefing building. seattle's police chief telling officers and a video that she is "angry" about how the situation unfolded, and that it was not her call to abandon the precinct. >> we fought for days to protect it. i ask you to stand on that line, day in and day out, and you felt it was to be screened them i screamed out, yelled at, in some cases hurt.

nearly two weeks and it seems like an insult to you and our community. >> seattle's mayor denying she made the decision to abandon the precinct, but also defending the occupiers. >> demanding we do better as a society and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. it is patriotism. we do not need anyone, including the president, to try to sew further divide, for the distrust, and misinformation. >> gillian: down next to him meanwhile, president trump telling our own harris faulkner an exclusive interview airing in the next hour they want to miss -- i know i won't -- that seattle leaders must take back their city, or he will. >> if they don't straighten that situation out, we are going to straighten it out. it's very simple, we are not going to let seattle be occupied by anarchists. >> melissa: this is "outnumbered," and i'm

melissa francis. here today's fox news correspondent, gillian turner. attorney and fox news contributor, emily compagno. syndicated radio host and fox news contributor, leslie marshall. and joining us today, executive vice president of the kings college in new york city, and fox news contributor, brian brenberg. brian, i want to start with you, because the police chief -- who is a woman of color, by the way -- saying in that press conference on another point that response time to emergency calls for the police officers has now tripled. which, in my mind, implies any city where everyone hates the police, apparently people are still calling them in an emergency for help. >> they are calling them for an emergency, and even within the so-called "autonomous zone," apparently the police will respond to a 911 call. it seems like autonomy is qualified here. the police chief in this case is astounding to me. she's talking about the decision to lead the precinct like she

was a bystander to it. partly to being leadership made a call to leave that precinct. we are talking about an autonomous zone here, i think that's absolutely the wrong word for it. autonomy is being destroyed for people in that space who don't agree with the protesters. what about those businesses? what about folks in that six block radius for saying, "i have to go through armed checkpoints by self-appointed security to get to my home?" that's not economy. that's occupation, that is secession. we are calling it the wrong thing, because it isn't autonomy. it's a takeover. >> melissa: yeah. emily, seattle city council members say the capitol hill autonomous zone should remain in community control permanently. she said so in this tweet. "our movement needs to urgently ensure each precinct is not handed back to police but turned over permanently into commuter to control. my office is bringing legislation to convert each precinct into a community center

for restorative justice." what in the world does that mean? you are a lawyer, can you decode that? >> i will respond, actually, as a resident of seattle. there is a history here of successful occupation. for example, right near my house, when that lasted eight years of a certain building that was ultimately turned into the museum that the occupiers were requesting. to me, that doesn't show history of successful occupations. it shows the history of unresponsive and disorganized agencies. let me point out that specific counsel member, when she talks at that anarchy zone, she is booed by extremists who yell, "kill the cops." i had the honor of talking at great lake yesterday with a seattle veteran police officer who was there during the initial violent takeover of that precinct, and posted their every day through the final day of abandonment. he told me that the media has portrayed as these two different sides, some peaceful-loving,

handing out free masks, and others walking around with ak-47s. he said both are true, they are both there and everything between, and they are competing for power. he said he was praying for federal intervention, because the police department is not equipped at this point to manage the situation. and the state and local leaders, in their continuing inefficiency and worthlessness, are hoping that it will either go away or that someone else will come and fix the situation. i have to point out, what is most troubling to me is he has seen in the last weeks about 30%, he estimated, of seattle police officers exiting. that the number one conversation is who else is hiring and who has resigned. including his bosses boss. the losers here will always be the citizens were left behind, the true victims, like first nations, the vulnerable, domestic violence, sex trafficking, et cetera. you have no resources and who don't have people shouting on their behalf.

>> melissa: if i could just stick with you for one second, because that's right, you are there. i was the rest of the city reacting to this? are they cheering for them? are they terrified? what does everybody else think? >> emily: there is a certain alliance given the makeup politically that supports that peaceful demonstration and the notion of less money towards police and the like. that on the hole, the vast majority is absolutely horrified by this. horrified. there is a common sentiment, too, of "how did it get this far?" how did it get to the point where the people who live in that community, which is about 15 blocks from where i live, how did it get this far? how are they being able to be held hostage there? why is that continued in effectiveness such a pattern? i've had a ton of people reach out to her from here who have left, that it just breaks their heart that it's what's been it reduced to, that this level of violence i want to point out a point that cop made to me.

the reason it's not violent at this moment, that it stopped being violent after that initial takeover, is because there is one group in control. everyone agrees its antipolice in that zone right now, even though they have different varying ideologies. when it is reclaimed, which it will be, someone will be hurt. it's inevitable. that means it's presented below, because we all see it going down the packet. >> melissa: leslie, you are also out there in california. are you itching to move up to chaz? >> leslie: [laughs] i love the pacific northwest but there's not enough sunshine in seattle for me. i'm not just talking about because of the situation. i love peaceful protests. throwing rocks where imitating some kind of an explosive device is not peaceful, and emily lives they should. she sees better 15 blocks and i do. one thing we are not always seeing is what happened yesterday, for example, where the police actually came to talk to these individuals.

you saw many of these individuals protecting the police, and there were some that ask them to leave. but there is not violence against the police. i think the first thing you have to do is you have to let the state government and the city government tried to take their city back, and i think one of the ways you do that as you sit down and talk about some of these demands of these individuals have made. quite frankly, some of these demands are just not going to happen. i think that is the best way to move forward, and i think that is the best way to keep safety for everyone involved. >> melissa: well, luckily we have a national security expert, gillian turner, on the panel today who can tell us what you think is coming down the pike. emily was saying it looks like it will end badly. if there is violence at the end, we all saw it coming. what do you think is going to happen? >> gillian: well, first of all, the mayor of seattle says

these protesters are patriots, president trump says these people are domestic terrorists. what is very clear is that, politically saying don't make speaking, this autonomous zone is becoming somewhat of a rorschach test for test for the by which i mean folks are looking at this and seeing sort of what they want to see, what they believe falls in with their political beliefs. but the security element here, melissa, something we talked about yesterday, and you were right to point out is an undeniable, real element here. things could go bad and turned violent very quickly. this is the rule of life under folks, mob rule without law enforcement. that is something everybody is sort of praying doesn't happen, but i fear what emily says might end up being correct. once police try at some point in the future -- because this won't go on indefinitely -- to reclaim the territory, there will be some form of violence. the other point that is really

important to make about this politically is that, no matter which side of the i'll use it on, whether you are democrat or republican, these folks that are there now have become antigovernment. they started out with a very clear target, as protesters. they were antipolice violence protesting the death of the murder of george floyd by a police officer, but has quickly ballooned into something else. they are now antigovernment, anti-law enforcement, pro-anarchists, succession nest dumb mike dubke like secessionist, and it has become something very different entirely. >> melissa: brian, before we go, are we looking at a dress rehearsal for what "defund the police" or "antipolice," what it looks like to have an area where they've gotten rid of the police force? or is not an over dramatization? >> i absolutely think this is a dress rehearsal. the nation is watching. i would say this, i think other

related groups are watching what is happening in seattle. if seattle doesn't deal with this, where does it pop up next? where's the nest autonomous zone? what is that mayor going to do? what records are they going to have again seattle for not dealing with this? if you have to reclaim territory, you really have to question how peaceful this protest is. gillian used that word, i think that's right. there's a reclamation that has to happen here. these guys have guns, that's not going to be pretty and it might not be the last place that happens if we don't deal with it. >> melissa: president trump firing back at joe biden have to be present of democratic says the president should dumb i could try and steal the election. more of harris' exclusive interview with the commander in chief, next. ♪ at visionworks, we know there's lots of things you've been avoiding. like people... and pants. but don't avoid taking care of your eyes,

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>> melissa: president trump firing back at joe biden over his claim the president could try to steal the election. in his speculation of the president may somehow refuse to leave office if he fails to win reelection. here is what the president told harris faulkner in this never before seen clips from her exclusive interview, which is airing next hour. >> joe is not all there. everybody knows that. it's sad to, when you look at it and you see it. when you see it for yourself. he has created his own sanctuary city in the basement of wherever he is, and he doesn't come out. certainly, if i don't win it, don't win. we go on into other things. i think it was a i think it would be a very sad thing for a country. >> melissa: the pushback comes as joe biden has sharpened his attacks after month-long campaign freeze amid the current

virus outbreak, and the perceptive democratic nominee to him or blunt jabs of the president at a community roundtable in philadelphia. >> i think is a i think he has abdicated that role. his inability to focus on any federal responsibility. i am saying, "i take no responsibility, it's not my problem, i don't have this responsibility." >> melissa: gillian, i wonder if this notion that he may not leave the white house if he's not reelected, is this something people in washington think is real thing? >> gillian: at the talking point, democrats have used this historically quite a bit against republican candidates for the office. if you remember, hillary clinton used it in 2016. it's not really something we haven't seen before that's new. what i will say, say what you

want about whether joe biden is campaigning aggressively enough, he sawing to cdc guidelines. you have to put this in context. the campaign, and ryan people, the cdc guidelines are so that everybody nationwide avoid crowded spaces, avoid mass gatherings. three of the states where the trump campaign has announced this week they will hold rallies are still seeing increased case numbers every week. north carolina, florida, arizo arizona. if you take the politics out of it for second, which is a hard thing to do, you have to ask about how to be smart and protect americans' health. they don't have to jeopardize their well-being in order to support their candidates of choice. the first application of these candidates is to do no harm.

>> melissa: sometimes it's okay to protest, the throngs of humanity through the center of los angeles, new york, all kinds of places. you are supposed to follow the cdc guidelines. how do you decide when it's appropriate and when it's not? i ask that relatively sarcastically. i think we saw there were people sort of felt the purposes and the reasons why they were protesting absolutely trumped cdc guidelines, and stay at home, the threat of covid. what have we seen? the national guard members have been infected. there is a consequence to those decisions, and that sort of goes into your rhetorical question, which is that everyone makes that own choice. but there are consequent is to it, and the consequences are usually against other people. it is someone else who is infected, someone else who is rendered vulnerable. i think this was a flawed strategy, by the way, on biden's part for attacking the president in this way.

it's easily refutable and it plays into an open duck criticism that he always levies toward the president, which is a fearmongering sort of conspiracy theorist. i think the president's response was actually really reasonable and totally spot on, where he was like, "if i don't win, i don't win." because there is no precedence here, the average american doesn't really have anything to relate this to other than those sort of most ardent anti-trump or is that are like, "absolutely, it would be a total resistance." the average american, i think, doesn't have anything a set that up as a free market. >> melissa: nancy pelosi, for one, thinks joe biden is doing a fantastic job. let's listen to that. >> i think you'll find he's doing a great job and he's going to be a great president. obviously he is doing well, he is leading in every poll. leading in the battleground states, as well. we are very honored and proud to have him at the top of the

ticket. we would win the house even bigger than now, we would win the senate, but the election is in today. >> melissa: leslie, i hear that from democrats every day. people that maybe are not necessarily watching every day, even. just saying he's way ahead in the polls. "joe biden is clearly going to win." is there a danger in relying on these polls that do show that? >> leslie: yes. [laughs] we have relied on polls in 2016, and our candidate, hillary clinton, didn't win. not only is it a very different time, covid-19 and certainly the murder of mr. george floyd, but we have a candidate who even bernie sanders says he has a different and better relationship with than he did with hillary clinton, and i think the mood in the country is very different than it was in 2016. 2016 came off the heels of two terms of president obama. now we are on the heels of what

a term presidency looks like. now america has seen that. the polls are reflecting that, and i wrote a piece today for fox that is out this morning. i think people are mad as heck and they don't want to take it anymore, that's what we are seeing in the polls. joe biden, by the way, left his basement when he met with the floyd family. he left his basement when he spoke in philly, when he got on his knees with protesters to hear what their gripes away. i think that's the difference. we are seeing a difference between a president that is treating and talking about "law & order," and a presidential hopeful on the left with the former vice president, joe biden, somebody that is trying to empathize in talking about grief, somebody who has lost a son, a daughter, and a wife, and listen to the concerns of the people. very different messages, and joe biden's message is being very well received, the polls show. >> melissa: brian, let me ask you more about those polls. i wonder, do the people paying

for the polls, and ostensibly using them in their campaign, do they take them seriously? because it feels like they are very inaccurate. that we haven't seen a lot of things play out the way the polls would say, and i'm wondering if you can still invest in them, believe in them. what is your take? >> brian: it seems like the campaigns like to use the polls as marketing, in which case you don't really care if it is right, exactly. you this want to say what you wanted to say. i agree, most people look at these polls, especially right now, and they say, "okay, whatever. we've got a long way to go." by the way, 2016 was a mess in terms of the polls. there is so much room to go, so much develop into these candidates to either step up or to fall down. i mean, the fact that we are talking about biden coming out of his basement i think is an indication of how far he needs to go to really step up and be a leader. if he's going to talk about the president stealing the election,

he is on an old script and i don't think americans are going to find that inspiring at the end of the day. >> melissa: brian, you are brilliant. i finally understand why we still have these polls around. it's not for predicting, it's for marketing. that's genius, i love that. thank you. thanks, guys. local officials moving forward with police reform amid a growing push to defund the police. as president trump reveals how the white houses preparing to address the issue. >> we are working to finalize an executive order that will encourage police department's nationwide to meet the most current professional standards for the use of force, including tactics for de-escalation. ♪ right now is a time for action. that's why usaa is giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can pay for things like groceries before they worry about their insurance or credit card bills. discover all the ways we're helping members today.

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reform plan that will roll out next year. under the plan, unarmed train professionals rather than officers would respond to things like neighborhood disputes, school discipline interventions, for reports on the homeless. to try and limit confrontations between police and their communities. mean time, minnesota's governor is endorsing a sweeping reform package that would have the state attorney general investigate officer involved deaths, revamp some oversight procedures, and fund community groups that could act as police alternatives. let's take a listen. >> the world saw the worst of minnesota three weeks ago, and this group appear is committed to making sure that the world sees the best of minnesota. these folks will kick off what happens tomorrow with an expectation that minnesota will change the way we do policing. we will change what accountability looks like, and minnesota will start to lift up those voices that for too long have felt they haven't been heard. >> gillian: today, in

new york, governor andrew cuomo signed into law a package of police accountability measures that ban police choke holds and allow the release of officers' disciplinary records. president trump says this about what the federal government has in mind coming up next. take a listen. >> if anything, we are going the other route. we will make sure our police are well-trained, perfectly trained, they have the best equipment. they are actually talking about not having a police force. that's not going to happen with us. we will have stronger police forces, because that's what you need. >> let's talk first about what governor cuomo has signed, this reform package out of new york state. melissa, i want to ask you about this first. for all the talk in new york about defunding the police, what they are coming up with is bands on choke hold, making officer records more transparent. that is not so controversial, is that? >> melissa: no, i mean, i know

"the new york post" has reported that his wife is behind a lot of the ideas that have to do with defunding or shifting funding to other areas from the police. we'll see what happens. the magic of mayor de blasio has always been that he manages to infuriate absolutely everyone on both sides of the issue, whatever policy he comes up with, literally no one likes it. it's like magic, because i've never seen someone who couldn't make anyone happy at all. we all know that, in new york city, crime is through the roof. we have seen our streets destroyed, window front smash, people have left the city. we are already about $600 billion in state and the hole. because of the people who have left new york, the high taxes. frankly because the quality of life has gone way down. there are many people who have left for the summer and left for covid, that i would be surprised if they are coming back. there is a day of reckoning coming for new york city for sure. i am a little bit sad and scared

that i'm here to see it, but we will see what happens. >> gillian: well, you will have to be our touchstone on that. emily, the president is working on this executive order. he is going to provide, with the white house is really saying our recommended guidelines for police forces nationwide. a lot of democrats pushing back, saying it won't have the force of law, so any executive orders going to be meaningless. but the president's supporters are saying it doesn't matter. what happens is that president trump steps forward here and offers some kind of nationwide guidance to the police force during this moment of reckoning, when so many different local police forces are looking to reform. do you agree with that? is a lawyer, do you think it is still important issue an executive order whether it has the force of law or not? >> emily: i think it is important for the federal government to take a position and a stand in encouraging

police reform. we have been seeing that on an individual department level for years. that's why the doj works in concert with departments that it has essentially, in its civil departments, conducted an investigation love. that's how they've come to policies, procedures, guidelines, and adaptations. that has been sort of a concert we've seen for a long time. i like that, in this national conversation and what seems to be a heightened awareness of the need for police reform and accountability, that there is that position being taken. i liked, also, the acknowledgment that it really doesn't have, however, an impact. that city and local and state policies and procedures are not impacted by federal legislation, especially, remember, in sanctuary places where there is a refusal to even communicate with or corroborat cooperate wil law enforcement. i also think it's important to acknowledge all of the contributing factors that go into police reform. not just at that micro department level, but how it is

an investment in the community. all of the factors that go into place, of building trust and fostering relationships, and the investment of time and effort, and capital, that it requires. it's not just about taking money from one and dumping into another. ally ship requires, in my opinion, an investment of a lot of things. if i could make a quick final point about that classification -- for example, san francisco pd are not responding to certain things. they are classified off the bat is nonviolent. there is a thin line between what can be escalated into violence. that's the same analogy as we have seen in, for example, the bail reform laws in new york. it's because there was a classification off the bat of what is deemed a nonviolent crime, and removing the judicial independence to make that choice in that moment individually is what hamstrings these guys. i support that, but i think it's important to maintain that distinction. these all movement toward

removing warrants at all. and looks to do that with impact. child sex trafficking, domestic violence, et cetera, et cetera. >> gillian: brian, i want to get you in here before we have to cut to break. so, folks say we've got the local police precincts, we've got police operating at a local level, and then we've got, on the federal level, and the national guard. but we don't have in america something that a lot of europeans now have, which is an interim force. what people call or write police force. that's a measure that could be introduced with maybe some success here in the united states to help with, for example, in seattle, the autonomous zone. what do you think about that? >> brian: gillian, i think the best approach is for policing to be really handled in the local level. we are seeing right now what happens --

look, police officers want to come to the table. i'm in minnesota right now. i fled new york city to come to minneapolis. surprise is on me. i've got a number of friends and family who are police officers here, they want to come to the table. they are actually in favor of reform. the problem is they are feeling pushed away by the defund movement. we've got to stop that so that police officers feel like they are invited to the table to be part of the reform, that they actually want to be a part of it. >> gillian: okay, well, sounds like what we want to do is get as many people who are in uniform involved in the conversation as possible. whether it's local, federal, or some interim level. coming in next would take a look at how stocks are higher today after the dow's worst day in three months. this, as concerns continue to flow about a surge in coronavirus cases. it could mean never shut down, it could not. what top administration officials are saying about that, coming up next. stick with us. ♪ they are compelled to step forward.

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>> melissa: stocks looking to make a comeback after the dow's worst trading day yesterday since march. this comes amid concerns over a potential second wave of the coronavirus, as cases increase in some states that reopened a few weeks ago. treasury secretary steve mnuchin says the u.s. should not shut down the economy again, in case there's a surge. white house economic advisor, larry kudlow, says there is no cause for alarm at this point. >> i spoke to all health experts at some links. they are saying there is no second spike. let me repeat that, there is no second spike. and secretary minute and said yesterday in testimony, and i totally agree, we are not going to shut down the economy. what you have is certain spots seeing a little bit of a jump up. some small metropolitan areas are seeing it. the cdc and the health people are all over it. they have sent some task forces

out deal with it. >> melissa: leslie, you're in the middle of a city that has a shut down it's going to go, in places, all the way through the end of the summer, as people are talking about, "is there a second wave, are they going to shut down again? close to aren't even out of the first one yet. what is that like you? go well, it's frustrating. i'm not a very patient person, but i also know it's necessary. if you look at two different examples, if you look at new york and governor cuomo saying, "look at our numbers," and people saying, "wow, a city that one had the highest has a lewis." we are seeing in arizona, where you have 83% capacity in the hospitals, that is a concern. i understand we are worried about bankrupting our nation, but if we bankrupt our health care system and continue to overburden health care personnel, that is going to be a far bigger danger than money, because we are talking about lives. with all due respect to larry kudlow, who i know and i

like and i've known for years personally, i disagree with him in the medical professionals are spoken to don't agree with them either. quite frankly, we really don't know what's going to happen in the fall or winter with this virus. versus a very seasonal. because we are seeing spikes in certain areas. maricopa county, where phoenix is in arizona, is not a small little area. there are millions of people there, and right now there are hospitals and doctors and health care professionals that are very concerned about what they are seeing in their capacity or lack of capacity for the numbers they see coming in right now. >> melissa: so, brian, speaking of bankrupt, as leslie mentioned, weekly jobless claims are another 1.5 million people joining the unemployment ranks. she also talked about hospital capacity in florida, where cases are on the rise, which is something i think it was relatively expected. they do still have 26% capacity

open and hospitals across the country. do you think -- how do you balance what i showed you first, sort of the economics of the situation, versus the health part of the situation and some of the states that are seeing an increase? >> well, you've got to put the numbers in context. one of the things that worries me about the conversation, when we see the headlines that say cases are surging, but we are not getting the context of how that relates to testing, testing rates, how that relates to hospital utilization. i'm glad he raise that number for florida, i'm glad leslie rees of arizona. we got to talk about these numbers in context, because the last thing we can afford to do is go back to these blanket locked on measures. we took 1.5 million new and employment claims as good news, because it is trending down, but it's still 1.5 million. who got a long way to go here. if we go back to something that we had a month ago, that is the kind of thing that can break the back of this economy. i think it is poised to grow.

i think it's poised to recover. we cannot go back to what we had, and the headlines are causing us, i think, to misinterpret some of these numbers. >> melissa: jillian, one of the smart things i heard from someone was this idea that now we have so much more information. before, one of the reasons we had to go into lockdown as we didn't know anything about the virus. it didn't know how to protect ourselves, protect each other, so we kind of sequestered everyone off. but now we know who it impacts more. we know who we have to cocoon up in their own home and keep safe, and who is less likely to have a lot of damage on. what are your thoughts on that? >> gillian: is an important contextual point, here. ordinary americans, you and i come who aren't health experts, who aren't medical professionals, even we know a lot more about how to keep ourselves safe, how to keep our families safe. that goes a long way. we have now done this before, we have hunkered down and started

wearing masks, we learn how to wash her hands properly. all the things the experts tell us are small but make such a huge difference in terms of population spread. i also think, if you are going to talk about whether we want to shut down again or not, and make arguments on either side, we have to address why we shut down in the first place. the federal government decided to shut the economy down because they failed to deliver adequate testing for americans nationwide for several months. they botched their earliest opportunities to get ahead, in terms of figuring out who and where this virus was in the population. we are now ramping up testing to a much greater exponential degree than we were the first go round. so, that will be a really decisive factor. when people have to figure out whether to shut down or not. >> melissa: emily, real quick, your thoughts before we go? >> emily: just that in the

spiritual weeks to sell 44 million filing for unemployment, and you can't evaluate this in a vacuum. we have to take into account the added punch of the riots and protests that impacted businesses, especially minority owned. i hope there is no second shutdown, because i can't imagine anything worse than a repeat of what we've already seen amplified. >> melissa: next hour, harris has more for exclusive sitdown interview with president trump on "outnumbered overtime." you won't want to miss that. coming up on "outnumbered," the creative of life pd "life pd"speaking out in the waw being canceled. his election come next. >> i'm the guy who tweeted out a couple days ago, "don't worry, the show is not going away." because i was convinced it wasn't going away. ♪ to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. woohoo!

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>> emily: welcome back. the former host of the hit reality show "live pd" sounding off after it was canceled in the wake of police reality. here's what they told bill hemmer on fox news yesterday >> part of the show was seeing officers, at times, do you think people didn't approve of.

that's part of transparency. police officers make mistakes. sometimes worse. i would think that's an important part of continuing this effort, to say, "we need body cams on police officers." i would have thought we need more things like "live pd." >> emily: the cancellation follows paramount tv canceling the long-running show "cops." critics are even taking aim at the kids show, "paw patrol," pursuing police in a positive light. our own howie kurtz weighing in on what he calls a crazy canceled culture, writing, "surely this backlash is out of control when lego has a stop marketing the police sets. it's a few hundred journalists to entertainers to cartoon characters can be jettisoned because simply one person is offended, anything will be gone with the wind." i would like to start with you on that. taking dan abrams point a little bit further, is it more transparency and exposure bette? should the public see more

footage from courtrooms and bail hearings, to jails and prisons? what mother's day looks like in female jails, what mealtime looks like and federal prisons, let alone what's printed on the way to these cafeterias? wouldn't additional exposure and footage lead to actual reform? >> melissa: what troubles me about this is that all these things are swept into the same category, and they are all sort of washed away in the same wave. and they are complete the different things. "gone with the wind" may make you uncomfortable watching it now, but it tells you about what our society was like in a different period of time, even if you are just looking at when a movie like this was acceptable. it teaches you something about the culture of that time. when you look at something like "cops," okay, that has a tongue-in-cheek aspect to it that makes people uncomfortable. maybe don't watch it. "live pd," as you said, that's totally different.

it's a view inside, and plenty of people were interested in seeing what that's like. that's the other thing. you can choose not to watch it if you find it offensive, and it was the highest rated show in cabell, i believe. so just canceling something that so many people watch and are getting something out of because it offends a group, i don't understand the rush to cancel all of these different things in the same wave. >> emily: gillian, taking the step further, as well, of the push to cancel the children things, legos and "paw patrol," i've got a lot of little pearl s coming up to me, because of a big doberman dog, asking if it is chase. doesn't that advance the relationship between law important in these, especially kids that this young and impersonal age? >> gillian: it is, and i think that's what makes the cancellation of certain lego

police playsets and "paw patrol," to a certain degree, more worrisome than the cancel of "live pd." you can make a case that a&e canceled "live pd" based on the fact they don't think they will have as many viewers, blah, blah, blah. a business decision. what "paw patrol" is doing is telling young children that they shouldn't emulate police officers. that they shouldn't seek to become law enforcement officers in the future, because it's not something that is worthwhile. that is more problematic to me, because that is the entertainment industry now dictating to americans what they should prioritize and value. to me, that is a bigger concern. i've never even seen "paw patrol," but unpacking why that she was canceled is more important than unpacking why "live pd" was canceled. >> melissa: they are trying to help the community, and the police dog is one of them. i think they don't like that positive image. but i'm really glad i already own a lego set.

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one call can lower your mortgage payment by this time next month. ♪ >> harris: president trump sitting down for an exclusive interview amid the growing firestorm over police protests and race relations, and more. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. i had the chance to meet with the president in dallas, texas, for a wide-ranging conversation on a host of issues, including his plans were police reform, and what he thinks the protesters want. i also asked him about one of his most controversial tweets, and got his reaction to some fiery remarks recently from joe biden. we'll get to that a little bit later. first, the president weighing in on the rising tensions in the nation and where we