tv The Ingraham Angle FOX News July 29, 2020 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
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atlanta in latin, "live free or america dies." we've got to take our country back. it lays out everything at stake. preserving liberty and freedom. we've got a lot of announcements on all of this tomorrow night on the show. let not your heart be troubled. laura ingraham, how are you? >> laura: good! we are talking to the acting homeland security secretary >> sean: chad wolfe? he's great. he's been phenomenal. >> laura: the mayor and the governor want to say it's a big victory because they are pushing out the feds but has trump said if it wasn't for the federal presence, the court house would've been burned to the crowd and thank goodness had that. >> sean: i'm going to be watching. >> laura: i'm laura ingraham and this is "the ingraham angle" from washington tonight for organ officials as i said claimed that federal agents are leaving portland after a deal was struck with the trump
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administration. but are they lying about that? acting dhs secretary chad wolf says, yeah. he's going to tell us about that. the war on hydroxychloroquine found the new battlefield today, a congressional hearing room. two doctors are telling us why big tech might be endangering lives. and biden emerges from the bunker but does he know he actually is? an actor gets an emmy nomination for 3 minutes of work. three. raymond arroyo explains it in seen and unseen. but first, do you know his name? that's the focus of tonight's angle. that question was posed by activists and protesters for weeks after the killing of george floyd picked it was meant to jar the nation to focus on police brutality and it worked. floyd's name and message became synonymous with the suffering that comes from racial injustice. of course, there were others that used the name for their own
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twisted political agenda as a burning down our cities would bring mr. floyd back or solve underlying problems. of course, it just merely made matters worse. in the intervening weeks since the people in late may, many more african-american families have lost loved ones to violence. at least 144 have been murdered since june 1st in chicago alone. including these children. 3-year-old mickie james, 1-year-old sincere gaston, 7-year-old natalia wallace. all shot dead. unlike george floyd, the general public won't remember them, because the activists don't find their stories useful. and the media also pushing a political agenda, they basically just beyond. last week in milwaukee, a well-known passionate figure in the community, someone who supported every issue from police reform and other liberal
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causes, but lately he had been holding homemade pro trump signs. that man was murdered. he also happened to be african-american. he was shot and killed outside his office in the afternoon when he was sitting in a lawn chair. it happened in broad daylight. do you know his name? i bet you don't. it's burnell tremel. >> we sat and watched. they gave cpr for 15-20 minutes. >> laura: security cameras capture this image of the suspect and police are continuing to investigate. at the milwaukee sentinel journal reported a few weeks ago that reggie moore, the director of milwaukee's office for violence production intervened in the dispute between him and a young man. thought the incident was related
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to a trump sign that tramell was carrying. a republican tweeted this on the news of mr. tramell's death. my condolences to their families and friends. i hope they get justice soon. probably won't be surprised to know that the major networks outside of fox didn't "the washington times," abc news, cbs news, or nbc. this led you to berger's to pick up the slack and asked some pretty basic questions. >> i can't for the life of me and tell him that it was justified just because somebody is a trump supporter that they get shot down in cold blood when they never, ever have done anything to anybody other than express their opinions.
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i even wonder if the mainstream media is going to give this the amount of coverage it has given criminals out there that have died in the streets. because they certainly don't give it the children. they don't get the coverage. >> laura: no, they don't. and nobody knows their names as we said. but those victims are people too. like mr. trammell was. >> full of love. >> very deep conversations. >> community figure. >> laura: tonight the income act will has exposed a video of interactions days before his murder that may shed light what was motivating the homicide. >> obama has done nothing for us. everybody says health care? we ain't afford health care for we and got no money. so trump at least whether the will of god or his inspiration
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to do some that no president has ever done and that's why he got my vote. if i'm sitting here with a sign with trump soldiers, i get a rock thrown at me at best. no fear. come what may. >> it's disgusting. >> it ain't right but at the same time we are in america, freedom of expression. >> laura: he seemed to truly believe that, didn't he? we will air more of that video later in the show. but the very least, it reveals that mr. trammell could be harmed for his pro trump use. if it's true, it's absolutely appalling as is the deafening silence from democrats. where is al sharpton? where is black lives matter, a group that mr. trammell even supported, by the way! they are nowhere to be found. apparently certain black lives do not matter. let's not forget the left's long
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history of ignoring, vilifying, or dehumanizing blacks who disagree. they are called uncle toms or race traitors. they are not authentic. as biden said, you aren't really black if you're not a democrat. at least twice in the last few days, msnbc hosts have proved my point. >> has donald trump ever promised you something in exchange of your blind support of this administration or helping his campaign? >> no, and i've known him since 2015. >> are you a paid campaign surrogate? >> i feel bad about this president. he only asked me that because i do not fit your narrative. >> laura: i'd like to turn the question on the anchor and ask if you are a campaign surrogate paid by the biden campaign. how insulting is this, how demeaning, you couldn't think of this way of your own from you couldn't come to this conclusion of your own using your own intellect. think about that.
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the democrats and their radical media collaborators have been pulling akon and african-americans for decades. the party of slavery and jim crow, the party of segregation and that the kkk has worked overtime to cover up its own sins in order to once again to divide us over racial and ethnic lines. doing so requires they demonized, disenfranchised, deep platform and dehumanize americans who disagree. but they know they think we are onto them and their sick game that more minorities are seeing through their sloganeering about black lives matter when in fact they act like only certain black lives matter. more decent people i believe are seeing the pathetic failure in leadership in democrat run cities where black and immigrant own businesses are destroyed with impunity. elected officials so possessed by anti-trump hatred that they
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actually do more to protect the rights of violent protesters than they do the rights of their own law-abiding residents. on occasion, a few honest democrats will speak out. i had a call with as happened in acall with lori . >> we have to come up with a better plan. my fear is once they are done looting and what happens tonight, what are we going to do and what do we tell our residents other than good faith people stand up? it's not going to be enough. >> thank you, alderman. next question? >> i want an answer! you commented on everybody. i want answers. >> i think you are full of [bleep], that's what i think i think. >> laura: to a democratic city alderman, your 100% full of, you know what.
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it doesn't have to be this way. african-americans, latino pluralists, immigrants who want what everyone else wants, they want a fair shot, they want decent schools, they want safe streets. they can walk away from the party that has taken them for granted and abused their trust and support for an agenda that actually will respect their freedom to make their own choices and to believe whatever they want, safe streets. bernell trammell wasn't killed by a corrupt police officer, he was cut down in the middle of the day after holding a trump 2020 sign. that was his crime. and that's the angle. joining me now is horace cooper, cochair of project 21 and author of "how trump is making black america great again." we don't yet know the motive, but this is a well known community figure in milwaukee who was assassinated in broad daylight. the media and the blm, al sharpton, the rest of the gam,
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care. >> this is just another example of how they jump to conclusions first and investigate later. the conclusion is mr. trammell's life didn't matter. the conclusion is there isn't ever any instance of any violins being attacked upon or brought upon people because of their political views. we come to you and i, we don't know what the story is. we are open. it is strange that where the circumstances different, where he an active supporter of bernie or biden, it would be shocking if this wasn't front page news. somebody was holding a sign supporting a progressive or left-wing candidate and now they are dead to come of this would be the sign and news that we
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would hear continuously. >> laura: justice >> laura: jussie smollett's story was believed immediately, that he was beaten up -- >> turned out to not be true! >> laura: beaten up by maga wearing white thugs beat him up and he was barely able to call him with bleach all over himself. that was take that to the bank and run all over with it. this man who adopted a lot of liberal causes as well carries around a trump sign unabashed about it and he ends up dead and that's not a story? >> it's a story but we've got the vaunted 1619 project where we are so interested and motivated by this idea that the race of america was its starting point. it's most quintessential important point. why is there a silence "the new york times."
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why isn't the party and segregation in the 19th century, 20th century and even the 21st century has continually exploited people for political power and his own ambitions. why aren't they being called out, why haven't the media just raised some basic questions? >> earlier this month on the sea the sea and then, after terry crews hit the nail on the head about why blm just doesn't care about cases like mr. trammell. >> when you have leaders all of the black lives matter movement say they don't get the demands they'll burn it down, other black people talking about working with other whites and other races that they are being viewed as sellouts or called uncle toms, you start to understand you are now being controlled. >> laura: horace, they said
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upon terry for having the temerity to raise that point. he became a persona non grata. that's where you are in the country tonight. >> silence those who dissent. this is the pattern that we have seen from the 1800s, 1900s, and now the 2000s and heading into the 21st century. where is the understanding that free people have the right to express themselves to think what they want to think, and where is the outrage that someone could be killed over this only if they don't support the leftist candidate? where is the outrage? >> thanks so much. great to see you tonight. as we noted, trammell was ruthlessly gunned down on thursday. this is amid growing outrage over the signs he was holding supporting president trump's reelection. the police are currently asking the public to help identify the
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suspected shooter. we still don't know why trammell was killed, but tonight i want to show you more of that video "the ingraham angle" extensively exclusivelyobtained days befores murder. >> trump today... people on the sidewalk unlike the corner over there. >> see what i'm saying? they can't do that at the same time. respect the sign. >> this one? >> yet. i'd grab them across the street, swing them around. over there, they are just about ready to kill me. >> laura: joining me now is and you hit his office is the one that got its hands on that video. andrew, he says they are just about ready to kill me.
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what were your thoughts when you saw that? her that for the first time. >> laura, it's just so chilling to sit there and hear it and watch all of those videos. it is scary. it's terrifying when you think about it. we are a little under 100 days out from the presidential election. there is a real possibility that trammell was killed as a result of his political beliefs for supporting president trump. >> laura: we are seeing on screen now of a suspect the milwaukee police has put out. some local media have described him as about 6 feet tall, apparently african-american, 300 years or so, that's the estimate, weighs over 200 pounds. apparently rides a black bike that anybody has information, please contact the milwaukee
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police department. right now we have federal courthouses being threatened to mow have another case where a democrat in wisconsin was assaulted by two again, that's a democrat assaulted at one of these protests! these are the two women who were arrested in that assault of tim carpenter, i believe i'm getting the name rector this is beyond dangerous. now lives or perhaps being lost and dashed an individual shot in austin, texas, over the last couple of days. where does this and make up where does this end up? >> this is a low point that i don't recall this ever happening certainly in milwaukee or wisconsin before. where we go from here is we have
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to as people who support the president, we've got to stand up, we've got to honor trammell and his passion for the president, and we need to get this president reelected and that's what we are going to do in the fall of 2020. >> laura: he was pretty well known in the community, mr. trammell. i i'm surprised that there is not more coverage of this by the national media when he is on camera saying, i think they are going to kill me, holding a political sign. what happened that the people believing in political speech not being punished in the united states? >> not only do we not see coverage in national news, but we aren't seeing anything or hearing any reactions from democrat leaders in milwaukee. we haven't heard anything from mayor barrett, we haven't heard anything from congresswoman glenmore print nothing from governor evers. nothing from attorney general
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josh all. we have somebody who stood up every day, got up on the street corner supporting the president, talking about his political views and he is dead now. less than 100 days out of an election, this is worth talking about, worth thinking about, and concerned about. we have to bring attention to this, that's why i called for an investigation by the united states attorney. >> laura: you rattled off all the democrat officials in the state, none of them have addressed this, none of them have talked about it. that speaks volumeses and will stay on the story. andrew, thank you for helping us understand this better tonight. and still to come, raymond arroyo on biden's latest string of memory lapses. plus did oregon leaders just lie about the drawdown of federal troops in portland. dhs secretary chad wolf is here and he'll set that record straight. don't miss it.
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realize how't big it is, they wt no fracking, no nothing. this extreme agenda would mean the death of american prosperity and the death of the american middle class. >> laura: he's right absolutely. for ohio and elsewhere. that's why we are kicking off a new series tonight. it's called states of discontent where we are going to examine how america, especially the swing states would fare under a biden presidency because we know that joe was largely being controlled by a hard left obama alum alliance, it's imperative the voters understand his policies would radically alter the lives of most of you. let's start with the and energy sector.bo >> i'm talking about stopping fracking as soon as we can print talking about telling the fossil fuel industry that they are going to stop destroying this planet.
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i'm not sure your proposal does that. >> no new fracking. >> laura: biden's handlers tried to walk back his remarks claiming he'dri only been frackg on federal lands, but he bends to bernie there. that would still do a huge amount of damage and moreover do you really think that the squad would stand for only on federal land, banding it? remember, biden appointed aoc to his climate policy panel. remember with her stunning scientific acumen, who can blame him. she will definitely s be one of the loudest voices in the room. so pennsylvania, ohio, texas, ao we said, are fracking powerhouses. voters in those states must realize that joe's green new jobs fantasy will reward democrat friends and destroy industry that has provided good paying jobs to american families for over a decade now. let's look at numbers. 2019 chamber of commerce study found that a fracking ban would
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lose 19 million jobs nationwide, including 700,000 jobs in ohio, 609,000 in pennsylvania, 468,000 inn colorado, and another 816,00 in wisconsin and michigan. states and localities of course would see the revenues shrink by $600 billion. and children will suffer in states like new mexico where a huge chunk of public educationen is funded through taxes on oil and gas. coloradans, you would be on average 6,50 $6,500 poorer. it would be a climate stick up with joe bidenen wearing the ma. but you can have faith in a green new deal, right? if higher taxes and endless funding for climate cronies, if that's your idea of fair, sure, it'll be swell.
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speaking of live shattered under democrat rule, we turn now to portland, despite months of violent anti-for chaos local leaders have refused to address. could be coming to a close? oregon governor kate brown the gleefully announcing the federal government is agreeing to withdraw federal officersth from portland. they've acted as an occupying force and brought violence but starting tomorrow, all customs border protection and i.c.e. officers will leave downtown portland. o sounds like she's declaring victory. that would be a shocking development, right? but is that true? joining me now is acting dhs secretary chad wolf. mr. secretary, she says agents are an occupying force and basically good riddance, she won. what do you say? >> i think that language is very irresponsible. she is describing law enforcement officers, civil law enforcement officersin who wake up every day and put that bad john come up with the uniform on, and protect the
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community and federal properties as an occupying force and responsible for the violence we see in portland and it's exactly the opposite. it's the violent rioters and criminals we've seen for over 60 days that are the occupying force in downtown portland, and have caused this violence we have seen. i take exception to that language. i would say that all of our men and women, law-enforcement officers in the dhs and those inside the court house who risk their lives every day also ticket section to that language. >> laura: how many people will be left, federal officers left in the courthouse given i guess the agreements you two came to? >> absolutely. well, dhs law enforcement presence will remain in portland until a we can be ensured that e plan put in place by the governor and oregon state police is working, is effective, they can continue to do it night after night and keep the criminal and violent activity
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away from the courthouse. >> laura: secretary, hold on. do you have faith? she just called your people an occupying force. do you have faith that given their language, their attitude, playing politics with this, that that's going to happen? and this is going to be secure, mr. secretary? >> we are going to have to wait and see. i think the key there is none of the dhs law enforcement that are there today, that have been there the last month or over a month at this point are leaving portland. we will remain, protect the courthouse, that is our responsibility and that is our duty. the oregon state police, a robust presence across the street frome the port down the courthouse and we'll see if they can execute the plan they put in e.place. if that doesn't happen overnight, we have to stay there and understand if their plan is effective. heif it's not we'll continue to secure that courthouse. >> laura: what's incredible is a goodho friend of mine in
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new orleans has an office basically right across the street from the courthouse there, a business trip he said to me over the weekend, he saysr location because we always assumed that area was going to be safe. isn't it ironic that now areas near federal buildings are going to give businesses pause when they decide where to locate if this kind of nonsense continues? it never struck me before as when he said that to me over the weekend and apparently they aren't going anywhere near that new orleans federal courthouse because they are concerned. >> what i will say in cities like new orleans and other cities across s the country, we have a good relationship withco state and local law enforcementw if there are threats and targets against those federal facilities in those locations, we work as a team together to address those. unfortunately that has not occurred in portland over theas last 60 days. i am glad the governor stepped up at this time and deploying
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the oregon state police. that should've been done earlier to address the situation so thee can police city streets and city parks in the area that these violent criminals are organizing in each and every night. i'm glad they did it and i'm glad they are going to join other responsible cities around the country. the one they clearly decided this is just not working out politically. >> laura: i know you're not going to say it but i'll say it. they are looking at the public opinion on it and it's starting to turn against the democrats. that's why they decided to start working with you. the governor of michigan said this about having federal officers in her state, mr. secretary. watch. >> what wecr are worried about f course is the federal government is going to come in and do what they did in portland. that is not acceptable. that is not necessary. >> laura: issue saying she doesn't want you guys to protect courthouses from being burnt down as this ag is saying?
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is this behavior down the acceptable behavior as a political tactic? >> it's very confusing. i received a number of letters from mayors and governors and it doesn't make sense to me because what they don't understand is they don't understand the facts on the ground in their state and in their cities. in michigan and elsewhere we have a good relationship with local and state law enforcement and they come to our assistance when we need them too. we don't see that in portland which has caused what we had over the last 60 days but in other states and other cities, local and state law enforcement understand that partnership is critical to securing federal facilities and working together as a team. >> laura: biden finally emerges from the basement so shirley had a good event today. raymond arroyo will show you the latest. seen and unseen next.
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seen and unseen segment where we expose the stories behind the headlines. biden escapes the basement for at least one event. for more details, we are joined by raymond arroyo, fox news and jupiter. biden held a huge presser and he got rave reviews. >> not shying away from attacking donald trump. >> comfortable in who he is in his own skin. >> he was buying in hand that press conference and answered coherently. >> laura: is that the standard now? how coherent and intelligent was it, raymond? >> i am not going to characterize it. i'm going to let the audience be the judge. this is how joe biden started the press. >> good afternoon, everyone. welcome to kinsman community center. actually, that's the one down i used to work. that's a joke. didn't know where we were.
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anyway... >>i it's a joke, okay. itok was unclear whether biden knew or he actually was and it was in his own hometown where he does everything.he then came the challenging questions from the press corps. note, all the reporters were preapproved. biden consults his lists, and some reporters acted like they were campaign aides. >> i would be happen to take her questions but let me get my list here. >> i'm curious why delaware? >> are you running against president trump or for resident? >> do you think the president all of a sudden decided not to go to tallahassee because he no longer thought it was in the interest of the public? >> jacksonville? >> i mean jacksonville. i'm not prepared to tell my story. >> laura, are you trying to win your time slot or trying to get higher ratings in the competition? what kind of questions are these? and these performances of biden
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don't exactly give voters confidence that he's ready to lead or can lead any longer. politics aside, i always say the more vigorous vibrant candidate always wins. trump is more vigorous than hillary, and my sense is this race is tending toward the same direction which is why you see the tightening polls. the more. you see this, the more his lead is eroding. >> laura: i have a question for you tonight. why new orleans? why? what kind of question is that? >> that's all i'm going to say, lllaura. i'm going to say no more. >> laura: the best is biden said, the best i can come pain from here and nobody knows the difference. he will make the press doesn't really hold him accountable for not campaigning! he's going to stay in delaware for the most part. >> that's why you see the zogby poll, swing voters going for trump 3-1. a marist poll has biden at 59%
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support of hispanics pretty held held an event with a latino group today and was less than intelligent and coherent, of course, and there were technical pyrotechnics. >> the people of puerto rico have the support to rebuild their country. think of the damage under the psyche of so many young latinos. the 2020 census, which is now, two censuses ago, i used to believe you could be defeated, but it hides behind a rock, and hides under rocks. >> tucker: this is like grandpa trying to operate the zoom call. things are coming in and out. but this comes at an urgent moment for biden. that new rasmussen poll has trump up 41% of the hispanic vote and biden at 46. he can't win with those numberse maybe that psychic -- maybe that
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was spanish? i don't recognize that particular accent. >> laura: and all these immigrant families in just the d.c. area, northern virginia, maryland, they are not able to send their kids to school because their teachers union are blocking a return in person education despite the real medicine. this is now an easysp call for minority owned businesses. burned to the ground and nowrn this. >> before we go, some entertainment news, the emmy nominations came out today and as my cameraman here said, he didn't know, no one else didhe either. brad pitt was e nominated for playing dr. anthony vouching for exactly 3 minutes and lousy invitations the path to victory, surely kate mckinnon will win and imitation for her lousy invitation for you, my dear. she is nominated as well. >> laura: as she nominated?
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>> for that intoxicating, "high matt, i'm laura ingraham." >> laura: here is how she did my impersonation. she talked like this, i'm laura ingraham on "the ingraham angle." that's how she talks. i don't think i talk like that. >> and brad pitt did the worst of dr. anthony fallacy i've ever heard! terrible. 3 minutes, pour eddie murphy does an hour and gets nominated inin the same category. i hope eddie and baby yoda gets nominated. >> laura: if you thought "meet joe black" was a flat performance... because he'll be joe biden next season! >> laura: nxt, the war on hydroxy hit silicon valley and dr. fauci shares at all. or was that brad pitt? my medicine cabinet next. hike!
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♪ >> right now today, the human to live scientific data that has beenod put together and done ovr a number of different studies have shown no efficacy. so when there is a video out there of a bunch of people spotting something that isn't true, the only recourse you have is to be very, very clear in presenting the scientific data that essentially contradicts that. putin a bunch of doctors who >> laura: a bunch of
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doctors who actually treat de before being censored by the social media giants. what are they afraid of? featured medical doctors touting the benefits that they personally witness from treating patients with hydroxychloroquine and they are not alone. joining me now is dr. harvey risch, professor of epidemiology at the yale school of public health, and dr. stephen smith. dr. risch, in your illustriousus career have you ever seen a commonly used drug this set upon? >> good evening, laura. no, this is totally unusual and it's never been seen before that i know of. >> laura: big tech ceos appeared before a congressional committee today and the topicod quickly turned to their band of ban of that bedrock see a video. >> if somebody's going to go out and say hydroxychloroquine is
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the cure tuesday 26 when it's not been proven to cure covid that could lead to -- in some cases, some of the data suggest it might be harmful to . we think we should take that down, it could cause imminent risk of harm. >> laura: he should stick to comparing the pictures of hot girls at harvard. how dangerous is it to have big tech judging what the medical opinions are some of the science? >> it's enormous and bad development for u.s. medicine, horrible to have tech companies weighing in on what's good or what's bad on you from a medical point of view regardless of what the issue is. >> laura: ohio is taking its cues from the leftist media on hydroxy.st the columbus dispatch reporting that pharmacies, clinics, and other medical institutions in ohio will be prohibited from dispensing the sale of hydroxychloroquine to treat covid-19 according to new rags
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issued by the state, ohio board of pharmacy. i've heard from several doctors in ohio from this. they said they never witnessed anything like this on a drug that's been around for six decades at the end of this new t regulation, they admit that doctors do say that it can be efficacious. >> that's right. ohio is no different except they made this public. 44 states in total have restrictions and limitations on both prescribing hydroxychloroquine and selling it and doctors are intimidated from doing this. ohio is just more out in public about it. >> laura: dr. smith, lives, in my view, are in danger, in jeopardy because of this. but i'm not a doctor. you are the one treating theth covid patients. do you agree with that? >> 100%. i have seen this. large percentage of our patients
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dying or end up being intubated with covid come to the e.r. and are sent home with nothing. we know from the french data, the group that is mildly ill do very well with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. the combination is really safe and it's really disturbing what's going on in ohio and what's going on period with this drug. i don't understand it at all. and yet people have died because they did not get hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin upon coming to thed e.r. they come back 3-4 days later, they are put on them until later and die. that's an awful thing to happen, it's happened to several patients i've taken care of. >> laura: sorry to interrupt, dr. risch, what they are hearing, dr. smith is one of the preeminent doctors in new jersey treating patients but he's a real doctor, a practicing physicianl right now in infectious diseases. why is this happening, dr. risch?
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is this political because trump said it could work and so if it works, then trump is responsible for saving lives? what is going on here? >> i think the main reason is the fda has said that this drug has potential harms. they said this on their website, after t the posting on july 1st, that it says in the title of the website that hydroxychloroquine should not be used in patients managed and outpatient circumstances with this drughi because of risks of cardiac arrhythmia. but underneath that box, underneath the title is a box that says -- >> laura: hold that, dr. risch. we'll have you back to continue this. we have to take a quick break. stay right here. are you sick and tired of looking and feeling heavy? probioslim promotes healthy digestion
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a >> doctor anthony fauci changing his mind on mexican, they don't cover enough of your face. >> i protection is recommended. >> if you have goggles or andnd shield you should use it. it is not universally recommended that if you really want to be complete you should probably use it if you can. shannon: was next, scuba year, spacesuits? i shouldn't give him any ideas. that is all the time we have tonight. shannon bream, take it from here. >> you can sneak up on us like that, we would have had our goggles ready. thank you. tonight, 11:00 pm on east coast, 8:00 pm on the west coast, we are monitoring the federal courthouse for signs of trouble is the oregon governor says teams of federal officers begin moving out to be replaced by state police. is that you and would it end
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