this in the history book, this will be a story of hope. >> join us on fox nation for our new show, crime stories, streaming now. i'm nancy gray. hello america i'm mark levin. we have a great guest attorney general bill barr. how are you. >> pretty good mark, good to be here. >> here's what i promise. we will have a discussion and i'll never reclaim my time. when i ask you a question you will have time to answer the question. >> okay. >> we have a lot to cover. i want to start with the house judiciary committee. i was a chief of staff to an attorney general and at least we had some very difficult

hearings from time to time. i've never seen anything like this before. obviously it was correlated, the call was to have you up there and treat you like a piñata, absolutely disrespectful. what were you thinking that was going on what you make of this? cuban attorney general twice now. >> i think they were afraid to have me speak and so they decided to burn up all the time and not give me any time to answer so i quickly caught on to the tactic. >> and, what do you make of the change of the whole nature of hearings now? i mean they accused you of being a murderer, a terrorist, i was getting nervous that someday might grab a molotov cocktail from behind the table and throw it at you. what you make of it. >> i have perspective of being attorney general 30 years ago and now. i thought things were partisan until 30 years ago, nothing compared to ted tay.

things have fundamentally changed and i think what has happened, i been thinking about this because in the old days you could have friends across the aisle, politics was part of your life but it wasn't all-consuming, it wasn't everything, you'd have communications and so forth with others, but it's now become all ca consuming for many people and i think what's happened is the left-wing has worked really withdrawn and pulled away from the umbrella of classical liberal values that have underscored our society since our founding and within the family, we've had to ways of resolving disputes. one was discussion, the dialectic, the marketplace of ideas trying to arrive at the truth, we had an idea that there was some truth to arrive at, and then if we can reach agreement. [inaudible] and that's how we operated.

nowadays you have, i think the left has essentially withdrawn from this model and really represents revolutionary party that believes in tearing down the system. what's wrong with america today all has to do with the institutions we have and we have to tear them down and there interested in complete political victory, not in compromise, not in dialectic exchange of views. they are interested in total victory and that's a secular religion, a substitute for religion, they view their political rivals as evil because we stand in the way of their progressive utopia they are trying to reach and that's what gives the intensity to the partisan feelings that people feel today because for

them this pilgrimage were all on his political pilgrimage. everything is reduced to politics. for people who don't have that perspective, politics is important but it's not the whole purpose of life. mark: do you think this sort of ideology, or echo is him, do you think it has devoured the democrat party in the last few years and does not explain why during this hearing and other opportunities they will not condemn the violence? they will not condemn groups there is a hearing the other day and the democrat would not come out and say it's not okay to burn down federal courthouses. they talk about the rule of law, they talk about the accordance of the federal legal system to protect civil

rights, but the heart of that is our court system and they're not willing, not one of them piped up to say it's not okay to be burning down federal courts. why? some of them are true believers. some of them are essentially revolutionary and there may not believe in tearing down the system but many of them are just cowards who are mostly interested in getting reelected and are afraid of a challenge from vote (sort of i like my gig and i'll do anything to stay here and i won't stand up for what's right and i won't stand up for the country or the institutions. mark: are you shocked at what's going on with police forces in this country, the brazen attack on police officers by anti- for and black lives matter and other revolutionary groups and local politicians to whom they

report, to protect them and defend them and protect and defend the citizens in these communities, is this not shocking. >> it is shocking, even before in minneapolis, i was speaking since i became attorney general again about how a fully employed economy which we did have and we will have again, that we have to be careful because policing is becoming very difficult and dangerous job and in order to attract the best people you have to be supportive of them and i was worried. [inaudible] it's hard to keep police and then we had this turn of events where they've been demonized. the fact is, generally speaking, we have superb police in this country, very professional forces and these events do happen. we have over 600,000 police in this country and there will be

some instances of excessive force, but by and large it's an excellent police force and if they're going to be demonized like this, there not going to work in the cities so maybe there will be self-correcting mechanism if communities don't support the police and we have a hard time getting police. >> and then they depopulate. they're going to leave. governor cuomo was begging millionaires and billionaires to stay in new york city. i don't think cooking dinner for them will replace safety. let me read something. gait stone institute international policy regarding antifa. i don't think people understand antifa. they say it's highly networked, well-funded, has a global presence, it's a flat organizational structure with dozens of possibly hundreds of

local groups and the oldest group is in portland. they say antifa stated long-term objective both in america and abroad and got its birth in europe, germany, england and the united states is to establish communist world order. this information is put out. it's not like conspiracy theorist and so forth. in the united states antifa immediate aim is to bring down the demise of the trump administration and attack on capitalism, they say they're attacking fascism when their marxist fascists, bring down the trump administration. it's interesting that one of the cofounders of black lives matter said that one of her focuses is to bring down the trump administration. what is it about the trump administration that stands in their way? >> why think they would be generally for bringing down any administration. they are a revolutionary group that is interested in some

form of socialism, communism, there tactics. [inaudible] a description of them is consistent from what i've seen. with the trump administration, a lot of them has been the demonization of the trump administration. from day one i went back and watched his victory speech after election night. people should go back and look at it. he's very measured, he was very statesmanlike speech, he offered the olive branch and praised hillary clinton and thanked her for her service and talked about working together to make things better for the american people, that was the day he want and from that point forward there has been no resistance. they been trying to impeach him from day one. they've done everything they can to shred the norms of our system, to do what they can to drive him from office and debilitate his administration and i think it's because the

desire for power that the left wants power because that is essentially their state of grace and their secular religion. they want to run people's lives so they can design utopia for all of us and that's what they are and it's the lust for power and they weren't expecting trump to win and that outrages them. >> they talk about the root of antifa and the gang in germany and other violent radical organizations in the united states similar to the black panthers, similar to the weather underground's except there more networked, better organized, they seem to have more ammunition of sorts to use against police officers and so forth and apparently they get a lot of their funding online. i have to believe that our

agencies and so forth are really trying to construct some kind of scenario about what were dealing with and how to undo this. am i close. >> it's a form of, a new form of urban guerrilla warfare. i used to speak about the guerrilla being like fish, swimming in the ocean the way the gorilla moves forward through the people. they go out among the people as a fish in the ocean and what they do is they are essentially shielding themselves or shrouding themselves in first amendment activity. they go into the demonstrations which are exercising first amendment activity and they insinuate themselves in their to shield themselves, that's where they swim, and what they do is they hijack these demonstrations and they provoke violence and

they have various peers of people from these top provocateurs down through people who are their minions and sort of run the violent missions, but it's difficult, they are highly organized at these demonstrations and these tactics that they use and the media response, of course the media doesn't take footage of what's happening. they don't take the footage of the rocks being thrown. mark: i want to ask about the media when we come back because it seems to me you're onto something here. these organizations know how to play the media based on what i'm reading and based on what i'm seeing, and that is their extraordinarily violent and they tried to provoke a police response and they are called by the speaker of the house, there called gestapo and secret police, they are aligned with the

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reporters who have these videos, these maps which are quite different than what we get from the media which seems to be sort of censoring. >> absolutely, the narrative that they are projecting, the when the word narrative came into the currency, i knew we were in trouble because ordinarily they suggest there is no objective truth, there is no real story of what happened, it's just everyone has their own narrative and you get to, then the press can justify, presenting a story that doesn't really correspond to the objective truth, but it's our narrative. we have a narrative, you have a narrative. mark: i've been appalled at this violence because it's happening right out in the street. anyone with eyes can see what's happening. they see the violence. they see these groups of agitators and their black outfits, their helmets and their shields which, incidentally, are rushing the

police, causing violence, throwing rocks, people throw show up with the rocks, that's happening in front of people. you don't see it on any of the national news or networks or cable stations and yet you hear about these peaceful demonstrators so it's a lie. the american people are being told alive by the media. mark: maybe you will see it, rarely, so they can cover themselves and say see that but if you don't look fast, you miss it. but you're exactly right. i find the best coverage right now are these brave citizen reporters who go in there with her iphone, some of them get there brains beaten out, they get horribly beaten and sometimes you will have situations where the mayor has told the police to stand down and they're getting beaten and nobody is there to defend them and it's amazing thing to watch the media.

you would think the media would be defending citizen reporters with their iphones and so forth but they're not. you think the media, and i've written about this myself, but do you think the media has become so ideological that it's just guardedly unreliable , particularly some of these cable show. >> it's reliable for being partisan nowadays, i think and you and i know, the first amendment applied to every citizen. this is the day of the pamphlet and everyone speech is the same but were talking here about corporations that are in the media business and there are a few of them and they're all pretty much toeing the party line. the difference in content in terms of the news reporting is the same. i like it when fox goes through some of the reporting of each channel, how they use exactly the same phrase and talking points and that's what you see.

it's become extremely monolithic, and its largely a partisan press. mark: this recent serious research study, a couple professors put out this week, maybe last week, the university of illinois and they say there are these bubbles, the microbubbles, so tiny are the circle that some of these media folks live in that they have no conception about what's going on out there. for instance, i don't see most of the hosts knowing what's going on in portland. if your news person i would think you're in portland. >> what we have a news person in portland. >> no but your commenting on it all the time and then you say it's mostly peaceful. what does that mean. that means in some cases it's not so you can have a minority number of situations where

it's not mostly peaceful and that makes it extremely dangerous so even though language is kind of out as far as i'm concerned. >> take that recent example of us and the upsurge in violent crime has come along with the demonization of police forces. we have seen throughout the city, the major cities a surging crime and many, many black deaths as a result. those black deaths don't seem to matter as much to the people claiming black lives matter. i believe black lives matter and i also believe all lives matter and i also believe it's not just protecting your safety from physical harm but providing economic opportunity, which this administration has done. it's also giving meaningful education to receive that opportunity. i think there is systemic

racism in this country but i think the best example that i'm talking about is the educational system which is relegated these inner-city children to schools that are failing and fail them and the president, as you know, is for school choice to put the buying power into the parents, the hands of every inner-city kids so they can pick their education. safety on the street, you can't have a community life and economic progress without safety. these are the things that we should be providing to the inner-city holistically, but the media recently has looked at our efforts to bring some justice to the streets of this community. there suffering the violence and then they equate that with what they call jackbooted federal agents coming into crush protesters. it's either an amazing lack of understanding of what's happening around them or its

deliberate. mark: and they don't live there, they don't send their kids there, they don't shop there. >> they buy their way out. mark: when we return, i want to ask about some of the other matters that have been percolating. i'm curious about the michael flynn case and how you went flynn case and how you went about having that looked at a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. cascade platinum. we know you're always at univethere for them.x, that's why our advisors are always here for you. learn more at phoenix.edu.

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live from america's news headquarters phoenix police firing tear gas at a crowd outside the police station a few hours ago. the protesters gathered in memory of michael brown. the black man that was killed by police in ferguson missouri exactly six years ago. at 7:00 p.m. local time protesters push pass the fence in front of the headquarters at which point police in riot gear used force to push them back to the street. china is flexing its muscles under the new national security law that prompted international protests. they report media kit tycoon jim eli and his two sons were arrested in hong kong. he has been a long-term critic and they published a fiercely pro- [inaudible] he was accused of collusion with a foreign country. now back to life, liberty and ln i

think they used to call your general bar, mike flynn case, you decided to have the united states attorney independent from washington, independent from everything to take a look at this case, correct so tell us a little bit about that process. >> that case had been going on and i came in as attorney general while it was still going on, and after he had pled i believe, but in any event, it was being challenged by his lawyer and she filed a lot of motions and made a lot of allegations about the government's conduct and so forth. sidney powell raised some points about whether he had affected the system's counsel because of a conflict of interest and so forth and i think everyone who knew anything about that case taught it was not adding up

because the call on its face was a perfectly legitimate call for the incoming national scaredy advisor to make, and so i asked the u.s. attorney at that point because there were all these attacks by the defense counsel on the department's handling of it, to take a look at it and this was a man who is ten years in the defense agency and a top lawyer in st. louis missouri and i asked him to take a look at it and he did, and he found a lot of things that had not come to light before, had not been provided to flynn or flynn's lawyer that showed, for example, that the fbi agents who interviewed, it showed clearly that the fbi agents who interviewed him did not think he was lying but this was later minimized in

testimony and suggest that while they meant he didn't break out into a sweat, his eye pupils didn't contract, that's all they were saying. no, that's not what they were saying. they didn't believe he was lying at the time and various other facts like that about what the real purpose of the interview was, which looked to jensen as if it was, it was untethered to any purpose other than to get him to live. based on those factors and the fact that i didn't think it met the standards of prosecution under the department of justice i decided to drop the case. mark: it's interesting to me, how many civil liberties groups supported your decision? aclu. >> none of the defense groups that would normally be jumping

up and down here because one of the arguments being made is he shouldn't be able to withdraw his plea. while most defense lawyers on the contrary would say that's outrageous, but here of course they are silent. this has to do with the rule of law and people, many of my critics are constantly spouting the rule of law. they don't know what it means, i don't think they've ever really thought about it, but the rule of law means at its core, that any rule you apply to one person, you have to be willing and a fact do apply to the next and the next similarly situated. that's an important discipline that protects all of us. it means anything the government can do to me they can do to anyone else in my position and that means that rules generally, if you really believe that when you think about it means that rules will be reasonable, reasonably applied and that didn't happen

and whenever i've intervened in the case, i don't consider it intervening, i'm the attorney general and people are exercising the power of the attorney general but whenever i'm supervising a case that i don't think is being handled fairly to the individual because the individual is being singled out and treated differently, i will stop that because that's what the rule of law's all about and that's what people are essentially complaining about. mark: doesn't this get back to your broader point early on that given the times and given what's happened politics that even a reason decision, one based on an independent united states attorney who is a seasoned civil servant prosecutor, seasoned fbi agent , you take that, you apply it, you make a decision, i mean what if you get all that information and you decided otherwise. wouldn't that be peculiar. >> yes, and so you stand up for the rule of law. one of the areas i also want to get into briefly is russia

collusion. so we have this investigation going on and you had another independent u.s. attorney who served in the democrat administration and he is conducting investigation. i think would be helpful for sylvia, my mother-in-law, and for the whole nation to understand when they say why aren't we indicting someone, why aren't we indicting them today, do you have the power to indict someone today or some kind of clock or how does that work? >> well part of the rule of law, as far as i'm concerned and one thing i want to get back to is not using the criminal justice system as a political tool. i think it has been in the past and the whole. [inaudible] was an instance of that and it was used as a weapon and what i want to do is make it clear

that we will indict people only when we are satisfied that the standards of the department have been met which means we believe a crime has been committed by this person and we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to prove it, to convict them, and we have to go to a grand jury and the grand jury has to agree to get the indictment. proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard and i think we've gotten in the habit of saying their political opponents have done something terrible, they think it's terrible, it's enough to me to it conclude it's terrible so why isn't he in prison. mark: you have a grand jury, what's their job. >> their job is to make the decision to return a bill of indictment. mark: you have a u.s. attorney, what's his job. >> to present the evidence to the grand jury. mark: so they basically decide if someone should or shouldn't be indicted and you are more

or less informed about it and have the final say. >> right. mark: so you're not the first tier of the so when people say to you when is so-and-so going to be indicted, you don't really have a clue until that is really teed up, do you. >> that's right. john durham, a 35 year veteran of the department worked for both republican and democratic attorneys general on special projects because people have a great deal of confidence in his ability and he's meticulous and he is about gathering all the evidence but people lose track, i think people have to realize that in this process, the witnesses have lawyers, sometimes they won't talk to. >> it slows down. >> they slow it down, sometimes will take the fifth amendment and less you give them immunity and so forth. also, there is a sprawling number of issues to be looked at here and a lot of different

conspiracy theories and part of our responsibility is to look at all of these things so we can assure people that these various theories have been looked at and this takes some time. mark: do you think the public has a reason to be angry about the whole russia collusion stuff that took place now that we have more and more information coming out on the public record. forget about probable cause. we now have testimony that was given by senior officials in the obama administration, the committee came out and not a single one of them believed there was collusion and all these other things with the fisa court, they were conducting activity without telling the attorney general, this is a really horrible thing, what's in it. >> yes, to me it is sort of the, it is the doomsday scenario of abuse of government power which is the

party in power uses the police and intelligence services to tilt the field against their political opponents, and that's terrible from a governmental and civil rights standpoint, but the media was part of this and that's to me probably the worst aspect of it. the so-called watchdogs of the system became the attack dogs. they're not watchdogs. they didn't use any critical faculty, facts or things that work clearly preposterous state took hook line and sinker and they fanned the flames of this worse than anybody else. they all got out on the limb, the limbs been sawn off but you wouldn't know it because they say whoops, we got that wrong in their on to the next hey, can i... hold on one second... sure. okay... okay!

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welcome back. mr. attorney general, there's been a lot of controversy on the state lockdowns, particularly people of faith who want to go to church and they see there's some decisions for casinos and abortion clinics, but people of faith, gun owners, and so forth, how do you balance us. what you make of this. >> i was sort of amused because i'm frequently attacked for being an advocate of executive power when it comes to the presidency and when the president exercises a power the left will say where did you get that authority from but it seems governors who are in each state, they seem to be content with having unfettered authority. they should have authority in an emergency when dealing with disease and many of the measures are critical to undertake but the constitution doesn't take a holiday and neither does civil rights or

civil liberties and they have to be balanced against these measures and the measures have to be reasonable and tailored to address the government's interest putting the least burden on right spread that's the correct balance to strike and guess what some governors have gotten things wrong over the past six months and sometimes it's completion is an arbitrary and most the times they've corrected it voluntarily so they put stricter limits on church and lots of violation of constitutional rights. the church should not be treated worse than some commercial operation. so for example, i was disappointed in the supreme court's decision where they knock down a stay recently because i felt --

>> that involves the church saying how can we have a bigger number of people in casinos than in church. >> they were allowing commercial operations having certain number of people and so forth and churches no matter what the size, you could have a basilica that could accommodate 1200 people and you would still have this one-size-fits-all, just ten people and we were telling states and a lot of states went along with both on this, just have a percentage of your fire marshal limitation. if your church can take 200, maybe 20% of that. don't go with an absolute number because it makes, it doesn't adjust for the size of the church so we were supporting social distancing, but we also opposed the arbitrary rule and sometimes these rules treated businesses differently. we were calling those to the

governor's attention. >> they had no interest in people who talk about mostly peaceful protest. many of them are taking the opposite side when it comes from early peaceful church gatherings, they're very silent and that would include the media, would it not. >> absolutely. this goes back, there's a lot of hypocrisy today and this again goes back to the rule of law, if you're like us, relatively conservative, you try to be disciplined and say if i apply that here i will have to apply it to the next. a lot of people don't think that way anymore. they do what impulsively they think they might hear and the worry about the next case later. i won't try to reconcile it because when it comes to that next case i'll do impulsively what i think is right there.

we see that more and more in the courts. i think there is less of a feeling that gu have to reconcile these different positions because they don't seem to be able to compete with that goes back to intellectual consistency as part of the rule of law. mark: we'e'e'e'e' up at 2:00am again? tonight, try pure zzzs all night. unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. and longer. zzzquil pure zzzs all night. fall asleep. stay asleep. or psoriatic arthritis, little things can become your big moment.

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welcome back america, mr. attorney general let's talk about mailing votes. we talked about what goes on in some of these states and it's a little scary. i don't see how more money is going to fix it in a period of 30 days and more states. you have some mail in votes in states with absentee ballots but were talking tens of millions now, that never took place before. what you make of all that. >> i'm very worried about it as i said at the beginning, the two ways is to keep this piece with discussion and voting and right now we are a very divided country politically, our elections have been very close, they can turn on one state, they turn on just a few districts and people have to have confidence in the outcome or were going

to have real problems in this country. i think people who want to experiment with different ways of voting right now, which are predictably, can predictably create problems of integrity are playing with fire and grossly irresponsible. mail in voting has been used for people in individual cases can't go and vote. you go and apply for a ballot and get the ballot and you vote. there's no problem with that especially for states that have been doing that for a while, but the idea that you have the voter being sent out all these thousand and thousands of ballots is scary because a lot of those go to addresses where people no longer live or their misdirected when i think it

will create a situation where it could easily create a situation where there will be a contested election. >> what concerns me, any attempt to clean the voter rolls or take out people who have moved and gone to other states, people who have a maiden name in a married name, this attack has suppress the vote as a systemically racist effort to affect the election, we've heard this all along so we know the rules are not perfect. the post office is going to be mailing to those rules. the post office isn't perfect. we saw what happened in that district in new york. we saw what happened in new yor york, it was a disaster. we saw thousands of ballots showing up out of nowhere in new jersey. if you want test cases these are test cases and to now have potentially 50 or 60 million people vote this way, so why

is one party pushing it and not another. you don't have to answer that question. i will tell you why i think unless you want to. it's because chaos supports the narrative that the president of the united states doesn't want to leave office when in fact the president of the united states never said i don't want to leave office. he said i will look at the results of the election and then i'll decide. biden is not hiring them just because he wants lawyers, he wants to go into state court and fight every ballot. >> right. it's funny. we want to look back at press coverage of this issue, it wasn't until trump was elected that the media changed its tune. before that the media used to refer to mail in ballots as fought with fraud or raising questions of fraud or integrity of the vote. it's only recently that they now made it that there's no

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welcome back mr. attorney general, it's your second tour of attorney general. i don't know if we've had many attorneys general who have done it twice. are you glad you've done it a second time. >> i don't know that i would say glad, or ecstatic but i'm content with the decision. i hesitated a long time. i wasn't anxious to go back into government, i was very content with my life and i was heading toward retirement, but i felt there was a time where given what was going on in the country i had to step up when i was asked and i'm glad i did that. i knew there would be a lot of ugliness which is one of the reasons i hesitated and in some ways it's uglier than i thought, but that is the

people attacking the administration and the idea of the resistance to the administration but there's some parts that have been surprising, the president i think is an excellent executive and president. he has robust conversation, he calls on people for their ideas and so forth, i feel the decisions we make our well vetted within the white house and my colleagues are very high caliber individuals so that part of it has been good. mark: the president is nothing like he is portrayed in the media is he. >> not at all. mark: same with my experience. smart, engaging, charismatic, a lot of fun and he works tirelessly. >> i've never seen such energy. he is always working. he cares about people, i think he enjoys the process of

making the country better and work for everybody. mark: it's been a pleasure having you. thank you for taking all this time with us. god bless you and godspeed. see you next time on life, liberty and levin. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening and welcome to "the next revolution" i'm steve hilton and this is the home of positive populism. pro-work, pro-family, pro-community, and especially pro-america joining us tonight for the hour, sarah carter and matt gates. big policy moves from president trump this weekend. it's great to see him. we'll be getting into the details later. also tonight back by popular demand that joe biden comedy segment. but first, the establishment republican psychodrama. in the last week or so, the sneaky and snooty anti- trump republican have come to light in a debat