this fear comes in there all the time and they kind of sat there and watch it. when i was up there a couple of weeks ago, for several weeks kind of shaking a dumpster trying to get food out. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: a fox news alert, president trump heading to kenosha, wisconsin, this hour to meet with law enforcement after eight days of sometimes violent and delete protests. over last week's a police shooting of jacob blake. the president also surveys the damage of looting and fires during those demonstrations. president trump laid out his focus for the visit and took a shot at democratic leaders. speak to a lot of people are looking at what happened to these democrat run cities and discussing it and they see what's going on. i can't believe this is taking place in our country. but i can't believe it either.

today i am there for law enforcement and for the national guard because they have done a great job in kenosha. >> harris: 2020 rival joe biden at the same time trying to -- failing to stop unrest. he can't stop the violence because for years he has formatted it. he may have believed that mobbing the order makes him strong but his failure to call on his own supporters to stop acting as an armed militia in this country shows how weak he is. does anyone believe there will be less violence in america if donald trump is reelected to mark >> this is "outnumbered" and i melissa francis. here is dagen mcdowell, kennedy, executive director of

serve america pac and fox news contributor marie harf and join us today, political editor at townhall.com and post of the guide bench and show guy benson himself. do you think either of them are changing anyone's minds when they make these arguments about it's the others other guys fault, what's going on in the cities? >> i doubt it. it's a hard sell for president trump to say, he's going to paris, could bring healing to the country because that's how it's aimed at how it's crafted. but i think this whole lefty democratic talking point that president trump is at fault and this is president trump's america is a really disingenuous and misleading because almost all the violence is being carried out by leftists in left-wing places run by left-wing democrats. and of course, there were violent spasms of people, long ones and bad ones during the

obama administration and i don't remember joe biden saying, he can't stop it because he fomented it. to watch this clip of joe biden from the occasional box checking murmur about writing being bad, to all of a sudden trying to take it more head on, i think it's because he's seeing a shift in the polling and it's a political problem for him so he is they call on his own supporters to stop and that is as i said overwhelmingly leftist. in his speech yesterday, he did not specifically call out his own side. he called out the other side which is not exactly an example of strong, decisive leadership. >> melissa: marie, what about that specific point, because a lot of people notice that. while biden may be blaming trump for this are blaming the language of saying he's not calling out people on the right who are, without question,

participating in the violence, at the same time he didn't do exactly what he challenged trump to do which was, to say those on this side of the center towards me, you must stop this now. >> marie: while he condemned all violence including left-wing and writing. when you look at court cases for who has been arrested in these riots and are doing this looting, some of them are "left-wing." some of them are affiliated with right wing groups. it's a wide variety of people and it's not fair to say -- the guy said overwhelmingly it was -- it's both. let me finish. the point of whose minds this will change, obviously both bases are where they are. but if you look at independent voters and swing voters, what joe biden is trying to say to

them, that something that brings stability. he's not a chaos kind of politician and when you are looking at the swing voters they want stability and safety and the argument joe biden is making is, this chaos, this is donald trump's america. this is the chaos they get in charge and instead of trying to put forward a message that is unifying, he puts one forward of division, and that's why wisconsin leaders don't want him coming there today because they are scared that he will continue that divisive and really dangerous language. >> melissa: kennedy, i just want to bring up the exact quote here because when marie was bringing up the specific words that joe biden said yesterday, that i was listening during the whole thing and taking notes. he set up one point he was talking about the declining faith in the birth of our natural future. he talked about the virus which has taken, here, look.

there were a lot of times where he was saying sentences of words that don't belong together in the same sentence and, in that one i couldn't even tell what he was trying to say. he just repeatedly lost his place and we are all familiar with that because we all read a script and lost her place. it was kind of correct and it just went by, but this seems to be -- it was at times very tough to watch. >> marie: it is tough, and it's uncomfortable with the audience as well and that is what not worries me the most. at one point he is talking about defunding the police and he is giving so much of the democratic platform to bernie sanders which implicit in that is defunding the police, medicare for all,

that big socialist utopia. but then on the other hand he's trying to take credit for the 1994 crime bill which created the environment that led to mass incarceration and what marie points to a systemic racism. he is the author of much of that. he and kamala harris when it comes to criminal justice reform, i don't know what their vision of the future looks like. so what joe biden is saying is, this is the president's fault and he's in charge of the federal government and he's chaotic. so what's the opposite of chaos? its order. so when you have the head of the executive branch of the federal government who should impose order, that means that joe biden is saying he should send in federal troops because that's how you achieve a reporter in a chaotic place. i don't understand what he is looking for. >> melissa: so adding to the confusion because yesterday he was in pennsylvania trying to shore up that statement he made

a very vague, emphatic point. probably the most emphatic one that he made, was that he was not for eliminating fracking. immediately we saw all the clips today where he had very recently set exactly the opposite whether it was he was debating bernie sanders and there were so many clubs that went by where he said the opposite thing. which one do you think people believe, that he is going to get rid of fracking as he said a bunch or he's not going to as he said yesterday? >> melissa: nobody knows. i actually watched it yesterday. he was all over the map. and he was struggling. i will point out a few things. if joe biden cannot call out by

name who these rioters and looters and anarchists and criminals are, and let's hear it, joe biden, antifa, talk about some of the members of the black lives matter movement who are responsible for the violence. if he struggles to get tough in word, and in fact he has not sent in federal troops, and that he pulled those troops and as federal officers back and guess what, the violence continued.

he saw the stores destroyed can you muster a teaspoon of empathy for that? >> melissa: guy, real quick before we go. you talk about being intellectually disingenuous here during this argument on both sides without question. this is about local law enforcement. that's about the local mayor and when he or she decides to send in police forces, and those who called back and they watched it cycle out of control, they responded to late and they can't get control of that again. does that help or hurt either candidate? because in both cases to be fair, it's not about joe biden and it's not about president trump. it's about the local law enforcement and the local

politics. >> we basically went from these riots are more or less a myth overblown, and they are the fault of donald trump. that's not going to fly and it shouldn't. marie brought up the governor of wisconsin, i'm not terribly in interested in what he has to say and what his preferences are about peacekeeping and rhetoric after he did virtually nothing for three consecutive link nights of rioting in his state leading to two people getting murdered and other people getting assaulted. he has failed and now he is preening again about president trump, i think distraction from his own failures and not let him get away with that. >> melissa: can i just add a comment this is the constitutional right and duty of the state leaders to protect the people in the states and they have failed at every turn. >> melissa: yes, it is their

most basic turn. they are failing at that much plus everything else. the violence in portland taking another terrifying turn days after the deadly shooting. protesters reportedly try to set fire at the mayor's apartment building. the warning from acting homeland chief chad wolf if the mayor fails to take action. >> the cause of all this is local officials, state officials not taking this seriously enough from day one.

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a >> dagen: acting homeland security secretary chad wolf sending a strongly worded letter to the mayor of portland,

oregon, last night telling him to ask for help federal help for the present will send in the feds. portland police declared a riot last night after hundreds of protesters marched on the mayor's apartment building. they set fire to it. at the president denouncing the latest violence months ago. >> president trump: lots of bad things were happening to this poor, foolish, stupid mayor. all he has to do is call and in 10 minutes their problem will be over. as you know they have to call us, they have to call and request help. all he has to do is call and the problem will end. >> dagen: in the meantime, sheriffs and to neighboring counties are refusing to comply with the government's plan to use their deputies up with the unrest in portland which is now stretched to more than 90 straight nights. when sheriff says adding law enforcement is not the answer, saying in a statement

that the same offenders are arrested night after night only to be released by the court and not charged with the crime by the d.a.'s office. the next night they are back at it and endangering the lives of law enforcement in the community all over again. the criminal justice system will need to do its par and hold offenders accountable. kennedy, to you first. if you grew up there and you always have some words to describe the mayor there and also the dea. when does it get better, does it warrant the feds being sent in? >> kennedy: is a civil war happening in portland between cops and prosecutors. the d.a. there, mike schmidt, he doesn't want to charge these people and he's woke and emotional energies on their side. regardless of what's happening i watch some of that footage yesterday, and it was ted

wheeler's birthday. and they were singing happy tear gas to go. but imagine living in his building. he lives in the condo in the pearl district which is a lovely part of the city. imagine having like a newborn in that building and being terrified that the building was being set on fire. so ted wheeler like bill de blasio's sandwich on both sides of the ideological spectrum of people who absolutely despise him. >> melissa: guy, what do you make about what the department of homeland security secretary acting chad wolf is talking about though, should it come to that customer ultimately it is president trump's decision, is it not? and so far other than sending -- again, it's legal if you are prosecuting or you are fighting federal crimes in an area for protecting federal property but what now? >> guy: what now is such a

difficult problem and question but the problem is that the exact issue that's been plaguing the city for almost 100 consecutive nights. i think it's so important that you pointed that out, three consecutive months of this rioting. i think this can really l illustrate some of the gas lighting and both sides is that we heard from a lot of people on the left. we had weeks and weeks of violent of people and the antifa style blm rioters tried to burn down the federal courthouse. so the feds got involved. the local democrats and state democrats in oregon said it's now the fed's fault. it's now a backlash against the feds and we need them out, that's a real problem. so okay, we struck a deal on the feds basically withdrew. they started burning down or trying to, and now we have people murdered in the streets because there was a chump caravan that went through, one of whom was killed in cold blood. the governor blamed the trump caravan. there's a little scapegoat that comes along that fits the

narrative and they jump on that while they avert their eyes from the obvious overwhelming problem which is the violent left which they are unable or unwilling to deal with. they are more interested in preening president trump in protecting this businesses and citizens of their states and communities, it's disgraceful. >> melissa: mitchell lowery has written that they've spent years. this is a midsize city in the pacific northwest and it's not warez, caracas or be rude. the five the black labs movement is very different than people who align themselves with antifa. they try to talk to these rioters and looters and say if you actually care about our movement which is questionable,

then please stop. those two things are different. and there's a bunch of different things at play here. it's not all donald trump's fault and it's not all the caravans fault and it's not all the federal troops fault but clearly they were not playing a productive role. law how can local law enforcement do it ideally and how can you use other resources to do it where you are not putting more fuel on the fire? it is very, very difficult to do. >> melissa: you have to let other people talk. >> i am trying here, girl.

>> melissa: it is violent. they just wanted to end, and the irony that ted wheeler has gotten himself into, he sits there and he says, stay away president, stay away anyone that's going to help, i got this under control. then they are torching his building and trying to kill him. other people from around the state, he would like them to come help and they are saying no, whether it's the sheriff, craig robert saying they will at the same offenders out night after night ending don't want to send sheriff's from other territories and because i don't want for liability. he can't get any help from people nearby and of the person who is offering to help, he doesn't want there.

every night he just sits there and takes his life in his hands. to see how idiotic that is, i don't care what any politician is saying or denouncing or whatever, no words meant matter at this point. it's out of control violence. >> kennedy: if they set one of those buildings on fire and there's a cleaning crew inside, and you've got immigrant parents who lose their lives because of this. for what? what if they succeed in blowing up ted wheeler's condo with families inside, and for what? what are they demanding? if they go night after night after night, what do they want? what could you possibly give them? let's say appeasement were an option. what could you possibly give them that would make them stop, i want to know. >> marie: i'm not talking appeasement.

you have to figure out a way to try to de-escalate here. and it's really hard. i'm not saying it's easy but, they all want different things. those are all black lives matter and all antifa. i really want to know. there are law enforcement professionals who have written books and a talk on tv and are experts on how to de-escalate situations and then there are other people who join in. it's called getting those models that have worked other places. >> melissa: it's called law enforcement, arresting people, charging them and keeping them in jail and bringing in the national guard. maybe the governor will wake up. president trump suggesting some of the protesters outside the white house on the final night of the rnc, they were outside

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look limu! someone out there needs help customizing their car insurance with liberty mutual, so they only pay for what they need. false alarm. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> melissa: top headlines now on the bottom of the hour, u.s. forest service officials say one firefighter died and another with her yesterday battling the august complex fire in northern california. it has torched more than 245,00% contained. dr. anthony fauci says labor day weekend will be key in determining if the u.s. can contain the coronavirus this fall and avoid a surge of like those after memorial day and fourth of july.

they are postponing the start of classes. there's a push for more coronavirus. so president trump says he believes some very rich and stupid people paid for protesters to head to d.c. and gather outside of the white house on the last night of the republican national convention. the president last night said an investigation is underway and he added this. speak to the entire plane, and that's a plane going from washington to wherever.

let let's start with that last piece. why does it matter if the majority of protesters who were arrested in kenosha came from somewhere else, that what's wrong with coming into town for someone else in order to protest and what does it say about that protest in your mind question mike >> guy: and i know some people want to pretend that doesn't exist but it does. it's possible that people came

into the sea and that is in response to a question about joe biden and who is pulling the strings for joe biden. i don't know if there is one scintilla of evidence connecting joe biden or his campaign to paid anarchists. so that felt like president trump was actually indulging his flair for the conspiratorial even if there is some kernel of truth to it setting aside the biting components. >> melissa: kennedy, it's hard to believe it would be connected to joe biden but the point that i think a lot of people are making separate from that was, i know my producer for example who was in brooklyn when people came and were torching cars and were causing quite a bit of violence and attacking each other in brooklyn, the group had a flare recruiting people and someone said where is the bus, where are we meeting so we can go back afterwards? it's clear that people are coming into areas may be to

protest and in a lot of cases to cause violence and other cities. is that worthy of an investigation? and now evidence for a federal investigation into this, because a friend of his was on a plane, that's a little anecdotal and a little vague at best. but at best, that's people organizing all this. people don't have anything to do, they don't have jobs or hope, they don't think they're going to die, there's a pandemic and a race war and a presidential election. we have no: fix this year, sports has completely turned upside down and there's no school. my children are celebrating because new york city public schools aren't going to open for another two weeks. oh, what am i going to do? but having said that there are no institutions. some people are bored, frustrated and hopeless and it's

fun to take a baseball bat to cars. >> melissa: marie? >> marie: i think the social media companies have a big role to play here as well. we have seen online organizing for some of these protests and we also saw the trump caravan that someone mentioned earlier that came with the big pickup trucks and assigns and started shooting paintballs, that came from out of state organized online so i actually think that the social media companies have a responsibility, as private companies certainly but to try to be better citizens in our democracy for a whole host of reasons, whether it's tackling fake news or tackling hate sites that proliferate on them. there is so much of this happening in the online space, and that turns into real-world activity. that's were so much of this nexus is, and facebook has been

particularly bad here but they should be of part of this conversation as well. that should clamp down on freedom expression because that's essentially what they are saying. people like to call them pay protesters, so maybe they are not getting a paycheck for being there. certainly their travel is paid for. my favorite image and black police officers are screeching at them about racial justice and telling them they are part of the problem wearing a pair of

lululemon yoga pants. maybe it's the rich daddies or mums that are paying for this. >> melissa: treasury secretary steven mnuchin set to testify on capitol hill this morning. that's a major sticking point and whether the two sides can reach a deal. >> i don't see a benchmark happening, and that's based on reality. to severe psoriasis, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.

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faith. they have refused to me, they put another trillion dollars into the economy quickly. if that's not enough and the speaker links they want to do more they can come back and do more. >> and that's how it can go quickly for most in need. that's pushing for exactly that. because democrats have come down from their initial offering, and republicans want an even lower figure.

that's where the trend was heading. at that was both out of session for at least a couple more weeks. congress needs to come back to washington to do its job. both chambers do. that's a great point. >> she's absolutely right. we like our kids to be in school and all of these things, i actually don't think either side wants to solve this problem right now. it must think it's working for them, both sides. republicans are holding up money and republicans can say we offered this in their heart of hearts. republicans, many of them, i think we spent enough money and to be fair and honest, there's a big old line of credit waiting at the treasury with some

municipalities that are out of money and say they are desperate for it, there is money that hasn't been spent. i don't know that more money was necessarily needed. on the democrat side, and they are hanging you out to dry when you're desperate. how can either side claim victory when so many americans have lost jobs? >> we have lots of losers in this fight, we have no winners. it's very frustrating and keeping it real and segment which i really appreciate because there's a lot of blame to go around on this one. is a lot of money, billions and billions of dollars still left from the last tranche of money that hasn't been spent so the democrats were all in to say give 3.4 actually in the new

dollars and republicans come back and say that they are crazy and they are right. let's start it much more carefully for those reasons and i think on the basics i agree with what the republicans are saying. i republicans i think i have no vote in the chamber that i control to pass anything. so if they did, they would have and they haven't been able to muster that so far. so both sides say, let's avoid a further embarrassment for ourselves, let's all go home and point to finger at ourselves. it sort of pathetic to watch and i think the democrats are being more unreasonable than the republicans. but what about normal people. business owners and families who need the help. at the finger pointing who doesn't do diddly squat for me, we've been hurting and hurting for months and that's got to be deeply frustrating i think to voters across the spectrum because the finger-pointing and the blame game only gets us so

far. >> and these people are still paying mortgages and still paying rent, still trying to send their kids to college, what do you tell them? >> kennedy: tell them they can think president trump. and i'm not trying to be a trump cheerleader here but here is what he has done. he came out with the executive order as an extra $300 which has started going out to people who are still unemployed because the democrats walked away from the table after that $600 engine per week annual unemployment benefits disappeared. so the $300 extra has been improved in the vast majority of states and it started going out roughly last week about half a dozen states initially. there is the payroll tax deferral that the irs finally came out with rules late last week. that's expected t to go into effect. now, if that deferral and payroll taxes doesn't get paid back, but you know who gets it,

the woe is them blue states or phone on hard times because and it looks like because of the boom in stark in stock markets so those are the facts. lock it up, newsom. new jersey will let restaurants dine indoors this friday but new york city appears nowhere near doing the same despite a low cobit inspection rate. why andrew cuomo and mayor bill de blasio says it's

still not time. that's next.

>> i do pray for and expect a vaccine in the spring that will allow us all to get more back to normal i will tell you todd, we

will keep looking for that situation where we can push down the virus enough where we could have more ability to address indoor dining. >> melissa: what in gods name is he waiting for? mayor bill de blasio leaving no hope for indoor dining anytime soon. and governor bill murphy says restaurants can resume indoor dining on friday at a quarter capacity. i'm worked up about this. the decision to hold off on indoor dining in the city comes despite a new infection rate below 1% and winning new infection rates, not that it's new, that the infection rate is below 1%. we been there for 25 straight days. icu patients remain at 109, that's the lowest level since march 15th. guy benson, what in the world is he waiting for her to open those restaurants, as a restaurant

tour is in the city just die on the vine? >> guy: bill de blasio is too bad to be true. i was back in new york this past weekend for the first time since march and all the dining was outside, which was fine when the weather was good. but we talk to people whose livelihoods relied on that restaurant and when the weather isn't good, there is no option. there's not a single seat available indoors for people to be paying customers and help keep those businesses afloat. that's not just a bunch of rich people who say, okay, oh, well, i can't dine in, it's not really a problem. it's busboys and dishwashers and short order cooks and restaurant workers. it's a small margins, and every other state basically has an opportunity now to at least reintroduce some level of indoor dining at safe levels. it would seem across the country

there are models to look like. and that's repeatedly that it's not a priority, there is no plan for it but i don't know how you can plan for it. i don't know how i would feel if there was a restaurant owner or server in new york city especially if i had voted for that guy. >> melissa: it we were eating outside in the skies opened up twice on us, and the look on the face of the restaurant owner and manager and they looked devastator's. this happened and we have lost an entire night's receipt. if we lost all the groceries and this has happened so many times. and it's not about us, not about us being able to eat inside of restaurants but it's about those four people who on the restaurants and work there. their wages and their tips, they

desperately needed. you had a judge just down in battery park who has coldcocked in the face by somebody on a city bike. here's what the mayor's flack, bill knight hart said in response to a "new york times" story recently mid-august. the working people of new york city have a champion. kick rocks, billionaires. it's all rich versus everybody else and that they are overseeing the destruction of a great city. it's a hole. you don't want to come here to eat or do anything and told idiot is gone. >> not to mention that all the

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nooo! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> melissa: fox news alert, president trump arriving in kenosha, wisconsin, any moment. he will meet with law enforcement and survey the damage done after the protest turned violent last week. this is "outnumbered overtime" and i'm melissa francis in for harris faulkner. he makes the visit to kenosha despite the democratic governor tony evers urging him to stay away while the community kills after the police shooting of jacob blake. here's a president this morning. >> president trump: and therefore law enforcement and for the national guard because they've done a great job in kenosha. they put out the flames immediately, as soon