there. i just want to let you know, 3:00 this afternoon on the program, we will be live back here in cleveland. the president has moved his coronavirus press conference at 3:30, so we will have that for you when it begins. i'll see you tomorrow for another telethon. >> sandra: looking forward to it, bill. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: did bill hemmer just call the debate at telethon? he is so funny. the stage is being set, in fact, in cleveland, for the first presidential debate tomorrow night. president trump and joe biden's at the square off for the first time face-to-face in person, and we are learning more about the differing strategies to cope candidates are employing ahead of the big night. president trump says his personal attorney, rudy giuliani, and former new jersey governor, chris christie, are assisting him. he said he doesn't need the kind of debate prep that joe biden does. >> we had a little debate prep before we came here. i think this whole thing, though, is debate prep.

what i do is debate prep every day. i'm taking questions, i have taken a lot of questions from you over there, the last number of years. he doesn't. >> harris: meanwhile, joe biden took a more aggressive approach by holding mock debate sessions, and ripping into the president over the weekend. >> he doesn't know how to debate the facts. he's not that smart. he doesn't know that many facts. he doesn't know much about foreign policy. he doesn't know much about domestic policy. >> harris: this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. senior editor at "the federalist" and fox news contributor, mollie hemingway. executive director of serve america pac and fox news contributor, as well, marie harf. in the center virtual box, fox news chief political anchor bret baier. also anger and editor of "special report." today is the day before. bret, so good to see.

handicap it for us. what do you think is happening right now that is going to determine what we see tomorrow? >> bret: well, first, harris, good afternoon. i think the telethon format, like bill hemmer suggests, that could change everything. i do think that this is going to be a big moment in this campaign, and i think this is really going to set the table for the rest of the race. this is the moment in which both sides know that something could be shaken up. the race has been remarkably stable, even through a lot of turmoil and a lot of different issues throughout this period for the most part, joe biden, according to all the polls, is leading. maybe tighter in some key battleground states. this moment on the stage with two man is going to be the moment that potentially changes that dynamic. >> harris: we've had a lot of news in the last 72-96 hours. when i hear you, bret, saying something might change it, i'm wondering what would change it.

we have had so much happen. mollie, what are your thoughts? >> mollie: well, i'm glad we are finally getting to our first debate. i think joe biden really is preparing for it. he has let it be known that he's putting a lot of effort into this. he also has a lot of experience debating. he has been in public life for 47 years. he's got the gift of gab. i think people should remember that, traditionally speaking, first debates do not go well for the incumbent president. whether that was george w. bush, who did quite poorly in his debate, the first debate with john kerry, even by the standards of a george w. bush debate. and then barack obama famously got trounced in his first debate with mitt romney, which mitt romney seems to feel regret over doing so well against him. i would not be surprised people think this is going to go well for trump and poorly for biden. if biden holds his own and trump is, like you said, he's been very busy doing stuff for the country. not doing a lot of debate prep. it'll be interesting to see how

this goes tomorrow night. >> harris: you know, if the panel will allow me just a quick follow-up, why do you think that first debate wouldn't be successful historically, looking for incumbents? he says all he needs going in is the practice of what he does leading the country. >> mollie: well, debate is different than running the country. donald trump -- actually, he is a skilled debater, too. he does well in part because he says things nobody expects people to say. he says things are not supposed to say. even by the standards of media being helpful for democrats, they have really let joe biden have a pass on pretty much all of the interesting stories surrounding him. i wouldn't be surprised if donald trump brings it up. it is a different skill set than day-to-day running of the country. >> harris: so, marie, let's pick it up where mollie left off in terms of where we haven't seen joe biden. that sitting down for a lot of interviews. i know you can point to a couple here and there, and he may take a question like he did over the

weekend, he took three questions and half took a fourth one after speaking after the news conference. that matters, too. he is going to be sitting down or standing -- with chris wallace, and chris has a lot of questions. >> marie: chris does. i'm confident of that, harris. joe biden has done some town halls with other networks. he also did a number of debates during the democratic primary. everyone else tried to land punches on him, and what was so interesting is they often backfired, and joe biden obviously ran away with the nomination. we know that donald trump is going to come in and play the game that he plays. right? he will tell a number of falsehoods, he will say a number of outrageous things, he will say a number of things. if i rea were advising joe bidei would say not to spend a lot of time fact-checking president trump. there will be a lot of people doing that. he should fact-check any really

egregious lies, of course, but he needs to tell the american people his story. he needs to dispense with trump's lies and exaggerations and tell the american people his positive message about what he would do on x, y, or z. not just what trump is doing wrong, but what biden would do differently. i'm confident that's what they are doing in their more traditional debate prep right now. i've been a part of one of those processes in 2012, and i can tell you it off and really works to your advantage when you do that debate prep, when you do the mock debates. it gets you ready for the big time tomorrow night, which will all be watching. >> harris: melissa, chris christie, we saw him at the news conference with the president yesterday afternoon into the evening. i mean, he is a talented litigator. if you got that guy plus rudy giuliani as part of your prep, that has got to help you. >> melissa: well, i think what mollie said is interesting, that general sitting presidents don't do well in the first debate. that is because, generally, sitting presidents have been

treated with respect for the past four years, and the respect that the office deserves. we all know, for many different reasons, the press has never treated president trump with respect. they have yelled in his face, they have called him a liar, done all these things, everything has changed. i think that, in a way, h he has been debating for the past four years. because that sense of deference has, in the past, lulled sitting presidents into a "they're going to respect whatever i have to and not ope openly challenge it" and it doesn't get them ready for the debate. i think that's what will be different this time around. when marie talks about not fact-checking the president's lies, i don't know. both sides say things that later, afterwards, when you look at it, you are like, "that's not exactly true." it would be a good idea for both of them to challenge the other one as they do say something that is not true, and joe biden

is so famous for so many falsehoods. there's going to be a lot to fact-check, most likely all around. >> harris: actually, i love a delicious debate between you and marie on all those points. let's talk about "the new york times" report that came out over the weekend. it alleges that president trump paid no federal income tax in ten of the 15 years leading up to his first year in office. the report also says the president paid just $750 in federal taxes in 2016 and 2017. however, the president last evening said the "times" story is made up. >> it's totally fake news. we went through the same -- you could have asked me the same question three years ago, i had to litigate this and talk about it. totally fake news. actually, i paid tax. you will see that as soon as my tax returns. >> harris: joe biden's campaign immediately released and add after "the new york times" report came out

♪ >> harris: bret, is that effective? >> bret: well, it's effective for the biden-harris campaign. but listen, this is a different response by the president saying the story is fake. his lawyer putting out details, wanting to see the actual records. "the new york times" not providing those. the answer that he gave to a similar story back in 2016 was, "i did everything by the law. if you want me to change how i deal with that, change the law." if you go down the rabbit hole of tax credits and how real estate tax works, it gets pretty sticky. on the big picture, for the ad,

yes, is it effective. but doesn't move the needle for anybody who doesn't -- hasn't been through this before? i'm not sure. >> harris: mollie? >> mollie: well, i think, if anything, whether it's illegal or immoral, "the new york times" would've put in the headlines. they are clearly working very hard to have something negative about president trump. but it seemed kind of land with a diode outside of the regular echo chambers. depreciation, itemizing deductions, all of these things he's doing are things that probably all of us do, that most people do when they are filing their taxes. i'm not quite sure what is supposed to be news. as bret noted, the story came out in 2016. at the time, donald trump said he absolutely did not pay more taxes than he owes. if you do have a problem with the way he is paying his taxes, and that it is legal, you need to change the law. i don't see this as being a particularly effective hits, even if it was quickly coordinated with the biden

campaign. >> harris: marie, almost out of time. want to hear from you. >> marie: yeah, i think many voters have baked in that donald trump is kind of a fraud, and what we've seen in the stories he's definitely not as good of a business man as he claims, but i think the number $750 is something voters can understand. when you see that donald trump, with those resources, pays less than probably all of us on the show and most people out there in the country, that may stick with some folks who say, "he said he sticking up for the little guy, why am i paying more than he is in texas?" the biggest most important thing in that story, harris, was "the new york times" saying there's more to come. we'll see. >> harris: i think the most important part was we don't know who the sources are and we haven't seen all of that. they haven't really released much. "the guardian" was writing about that and that was the first point bret was making. the president patently called it false. you haven't seen it. okay, we move on. fox news has you covered.

of course we do! we are gearing up for the first presidential debate, moderated by our own chris wallace. bret baier will be joining martha maccallum for special coverage, live from cleveland, ohio, kicking off its o'clock p.m. eastern tomorrow night. leading up to the big event, which begins at 9:00 p.m. eastern for 90 minutes of excitement and thrill, followed by in-depth analysis like no place else. you know where to find it. fox news channel, fnc for the cool kids. meanwhile, amy coney barrett, the judge, facing increased attacks from the left over her religious faith and family, after being announces the u.s. supreme court choice. whether the criticism crosses the line and could backfire. >> we have noticed some comments made in the media about my incredibly qualified nominee, amy. ♪ attention veteran homeowners: record low mortgage rates have dropped even lower.

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>> her catholic faith, a core value, and questions on how she rule on issues like abortion. >> also under the microscope, barrett's link to a small charismatic christian community called "people of praise." >> we have seen no outreach with this potential nominee, amy coney barrett, talking about her catholic beliefs. i wonder why that might be. >> melissa: supreme court nominee amy coney barrett facing a ton of scrutiny in the media and from the left over how much her catholic faith informs her judicial approach. president trump calling the criticism anti-catholic bias. >> "the new york times" said a religion is not consistent with american values. she's catholic. that covers a lot of people.

it's a very disgraceful thing to say. the religious situation with amy, i thought we settled this six years ago with the election of john f. kennedy. seriously, they're going after her catholicism. >> melissa: in the meantime, at least four democratic senators including majority miny leader chuck schumer said they wouldn't even meet with her. they said they will oppose barrett's nomination, which they see as a threat to health care and abortion rights. but they also say that it is too close to the election for trump to nominate a justice. the senate judiciary committee sitting october 12th is the target date for the start of the confirmation hearings for barrett, with a committee vote to approve her on october 22nd. majority leader mitch mcconnell would then schedule a confirmation vote on barrett. that vote likely to be held just before election day, or days just before that. mollie, let me start with you.

these attacks on the judge have focused on her faith and even gone to the point where over the weekend you had joy reid and others from msnbc tweeting this false story that the group she is a part of is what "the handmaid's tale," the series, was based on. which is a falsehood. even the woman who wrote the book, that the show is based on, has said that it was not barrett's group. for whatever reason, that has continued out there. i wonder why, if you were showing video into eating the way they were, and attacking someone else's religion, i feelh woman that would be anti-semitic. if it was a muslim woman, it would be xenophobic. it's for some reason, these bigoted attacks on catholics are okay. why is that? >> mollie: well, the media really struggled to responsibly

cover religion and the role it plays in people's lives. that's actually true not just for catholics but for all sorts of people. i read a story that said judge ruth bader ginsburg was secular and judaism wasn't important to her. the complete contradicts what she herself has said about the role that judaism played in her life, and her judicial reasoni reasoning, so it's not just amy coney barrett. i think the left is struggling with how to attack her. they know they want to do it, and i think a lot of people are expecting it'll turn into some kind of circus like what we endured with the brett kavanaugh, unsubstantiated allegations against brett kavanaugh. they are flailing about. when she was nominated in 2017, that was a primary line of attack taken by dick durbin and al franken and dianne feinstein, mazie hirono did it again this weekend. maybe something they try, but it would be nice when you were dealing with such an accomplished woman like amy coney barrett, yes, she's a lovely mother, and yes, she's catholic, but it would be good to focus on her actual judicial reasoning.

she's an originalist, her speech when she was introduced at the white house explained how she views things. she does not think the supreme court should be a legislature that picks policy outcomes. she thinks judges, regardless of the personal views, should look at the law and apply the law as litton. that is something president trump promised he would do when he was running for office in 2016. easily one of the biggest successes of his fairly successful first term as a president, and this would be the third such justice who believes in that original list as opposed to activist or legislative role for the court. >> melissa: so, bret, we have seen so far those that are putting the judge forward, in large part, have followed mollie's advice. the pushback has been a very calm, logical explanation that she is going to follow the law and, in fact, that is what her type, her approach to the law is. there are ads running right now where it says she follows the

law and ignores politics. there was a surrogate that was out on our air earlier who said that he clerked with her, and i want to get this right. he said she is a good judge and explained that good judge doesn't always like the decision she is making. if she is following the law. that you do what's right there in front of you, even if personally you don't agree with it. because that's not the rule of a judge. do you think that kind of response gets heard in all of the commotion that's going on, bret? >> bret: this is very accomplished nominee. i think she effectively dealt with the speech in the rose garden is you're looking the video on saturday. this is a very dangerous prospect for democrats. you mentioned the four senators who are choosing not to meet with her. i wonder whether kamala harris, who is also on the senate judiciary committee, now the vice presidential nominee for the democrats, will choose to

meet with her. this is precarious, because this nominee is a mother of seven, extremely accomplished, yes, has ties to religious faith and is part of it, but it is also something that could be turned around in a negative sense just this close to any election if democrats aren't careful. >> melissa: marie, the knock on it is that she's not going to stand up for women's rights, that she has subjugated herself in some way. that has been the hit on her group. here's the woman who has accomplished so much professionally. does that get traction when you attack her for her religion and attack what she said in the rose garden? is that a smart way to go about it or should they meet with her and actually talk to her? >> marie: first of all, polling done since ruth bader ginsburg died shows overwhelmingly that the american people think the next president,

the person who wins in november, should appoint the next justice. public opinion is more of democrats on this. democrats are not attacking her because she's catholic. joe biden's catholic. he's the head of our party. there is no issue the democrats have with catholicism. there are a lot of debates within the catholic faith about issues like roe v. wade, lgbtq protections. democrats are going to focus on the fact that she has spoken out against the affordable care act, she could would it take away your health care, she voted to either limit abortion or of course overturn it, both are certainly possibilities. and she is far to the right of the mainstream in judicial rulings. not because her own faith but what she has said professionally in her job, melissa. that's what democrats will say. >> melissa: okay. harris, marie didn't answer my question. do you think it's a mistake they choose not to meet with her and they attack her -- >> marie: i did answer your

question. [laughs] >> melissa: no, you didn't. he said nothing about -- >> marie: i said the polling is with democrats. >> melissa: nobody cares about -- that was my question. go ahead, harris. >> harris: if this isn't going to be about revenge, and democrats i've talked to her like, "we are not upset about anything," blah, blah, blah. if this isn't about merrick garland, if it's not about the past, make it about the future. we know that we are in a moment for women. the president chose a woman. my question is why are some of the democrats willing to call this woman a liar when she says she promises to do the job that has garnered her the title of good judge by some up until now? she's a good judge, she's going to continue to promise to do her job. that sort of thing, irrespective of politics. why did they not believe her? where are the women in the media who are not going to settle for this kind of attack on another woman, just because, politically, she may not agree with them? where is the spine of those women? again, i have a lot of

questions, too pay but it's easy to say it's risky politically not to talk with this woman. no matter which party herein. and who is up for the nomination. >> melissa: absolutely. amen to that. harris, good answer to the question. thank you. ahead of tomorrow's debate between president trump and joe biden, form a second lady jill biden is shoving down in a conversation about her husband's campaign gaffes. why she says they are not relevant musical ♪ woman: my reputation was trashed online. i felt completely helpless.

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gaffe? >> no, done. it's gone. >> the cafe she was over? >> so over. >> harris: what does that mean, bret? >> bret: i have no clue. there was no follow-up to that. >> harris: amazing. >> bret: it's only a few days after joe biden said that 200 million people died from coronavirus. listen, it is a factor. it is something that he deals with. you can say it's not a big deal and it's baked in the cake and his supporters are fine with it, but it is an issue. it is something that the trump campaign has pointed out. it is something that likely is going to be a focus of this debate whether 90 minutes joe biden can effectively say what he wants to say to the american people without a major gaffe that gets picked up and jumped on by president trump. >> harris: gosh, i want a magic wand, marie harf. i want to just make things go away like that. i've got to tell you, the

president's promise and could tell mike to go after joe biden on hunter biden. he may think, as bret has pointed out on other issues, it's nothing. but you still have to say something. you can't just wave your "i just got back from disney" wand and make it all go away. >> marie: i think the point of what joe biden said was the kind of gaffes that in the past would have sunk in political campaigns, presidential campaigns have ended over a lot less than many of the things donald trump has said. those kinds of gaffes don't seem to have the same political outcome that they would have had, even one or two elections ago. again, donald trump has said the record number of misleading or falsehoods things since he has been president. i am not worried about whether joe biden is going to say a number wrong. i just want him to be able to get out his proactive message and not spend the whole time fact-checking all the crazy things donald trump says.

>> harris: all right. i do have a final thought on that and then we'll move on. the bar might be different. maybe i'm wrong about this. this was not originally a politician who got into office. now four years later, yes. joe biden, for 47 years. maybe that's where they are looked at differently in people's minds. i don't know. it's going there for a little thought process. meanwhile, president trump again calling on joe biden to take a drug test before tomorrow's debate. >> i willing to take a drug test. i think he should, too. people say he was on performance-enhancing drugs. he wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. he was okay. a far cry from the way -- you know what i'm saying. if you look at some of those debates, i said there's no way he can continue. >> harris: the biden campaign responded, "vice president biden intends to deliver his debate answers and words. if the president thinks his best case is made in urine, he can

have at it." mollie? [laughter] >> mollie: such great perspiring before the debate. it might seem silly for president trump to be talking about this. it is all true that we watched, that joe biden never had a particular great debate. but the last was better than the earlier ones. the question isn't -- he might be able to get the focus issues down for a limited period of time. the issue is more about why he's not on the campaign trail, why he is taking so many days off. is he really up for the rigors not just of a campaign, but of a presidency itself? that is something where i don't think american voters have gotten answers they deserve to have about whether he is up for this. the whole reason why jill biden was talking with jake tapper's because joe biden wasn't out there on the campaign trail. he does have a very helpful why who is doing this. at some point, he needs to present himself to the voters,

as well. >> harris: as bret pointed out, apparently neither one of them wants to take a follow-up question. melissa? >> melissa: well, right, and they are not being forced to. i think that's another point that bret was making. i will say this, as far as the drug test question, i think that the president is the king of messaging. what he is trying to say is he's trying to reset the bar on what may happen in the debate. expectations are so low they splinting the seed because he knows there's going to be no drug test. he's planting the seed that, if joe biden does a good job, maybe he had performance-enhancing drugs. i don't think it's a particularly good idea, but that's what it seems like he is doing. to what both jill biden and marie said about joe biden saying he has been in the senate for 180 years, or he has been arrested a million times, and he was the first want to go to college, and he wasn't, 200 million people are dead, or how many grandchildren, i could

go on and on, the responses, "i know argo is bad, but yours is worse. i know a guy makes gaffes, but yours is worse." that's not a very strong position to be fighting from for your candidate. every time you see someone trying to explain away their candidates behavior by saying it's true, but boy, donald trump is even worse, it's just really sad. it's not a good comeback. >> bret: harris, can i say one more thing? >> harris: bret, i will come to you, for the parents on this panel, that's an interesting refrain. sometimes could say that. >> bret: i was going to end this by saying "urine" for a good debate on tuesday. [laughter] >> harris: okay. gosh, i didn't see that coming. bret baier dropped a big surprise on us! >> bret: i'm sorry! >> harris: don't be! we are moving on. tomorrow, voters will get to see

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speak of the debates have played

a bigger role than in past elections, at least going in. last time around i think it was 34% of the american people said they could change their mind. this one, it's now 29% in "the wall street journal" latest poll. smaller number of people affected, but that could be enough in a close election one way or the other. >> melissa: karl rove said tomorrow night's debate between president trump and joe biden could very well be a game changer for either candidate, but not everyone agrees with that. a "new york times" op-ed arguing, "debates have come to be about sport and sparring rather than a true comparison of the readiness of the candidates. they are too much theater, too little substance. maybe there are a true undecided voters who will use debate performance to make up their mind, but i simply do not believe this is a significant constituency p this is already underway. people are already voting. minds are already made up." bret, that's one point of view.

i wonder, if this comes down to who can handle chris wallace's follow-up. i am very jealous that he is the guy they're doing it, but we all know how this goes. he asked the question, and then you hear the answer from the candidates, that they had rehearsed and you were expecting. then chris says, "but, with respect, sir," and he comes in with what's wrong about your answer, what's not truthful, or how you didn't answer it. and there's very little room to get away. that is why i think this is going to be maybe more consequential than a lot of people think. what are your thoughts on that? >> bret: i agree. and chris is one of the best in the business doing this. the best part about her debate, a general election debate, is not the q&a or even the follow-up. i appreciate what you're saying, but it's really to set the table for the two candidates to go at it and to go at it ideally over substance. elections are decided by people deciding what the policies would be for their life.

it is really not decided about the outskirts, but if somebody looks, or how they sound. it's really about the substance of what they are saying they will do, and look to the future. i think that, when it comes to debates, that they are instructive. this is a big one. i'm not sure the others will be as big, but 84 million people watched in all of the other networks on the first debate in 2016. i would say the over under is 90 million, and i would take the over. that's a big chunk of people. >> melissa: mollie, what do you think? in real time on the debate or immediately afterward, and a lot of the responses more about the style than the substance. how did this one seemed to perform, what were they like? it's in retrospect that we go back, it seems like, and look at the substance. for example, it took a while before people really picked up

president obama saying the '80s called, to mitt romney, and they want their foreign policy back, when he was making a substance point about russia, which, lo and behold, became very true. at the time, our reaction to that wasn't the same as it was over time. do you think that, in the debate, the aftermath, the substance or the style makes a bigger impression? >> mollie: it's a great question. i remember, in the 2016 debates, i personally thought chris wallace did the best job of any of the moderators. you remember that third and final debate, he asked donald trump whether he would accept the results of the election. he gave is no standard response of "will have to wait and see." he didn't ask hillary clinton the same question. i'm sure he wishes he had, because it was hillary clinton and left in general have refused to accept the election results. in the aftermath is all about how donald trump had responded to it. likewise, what was significant for that debate for a lot of

people was that hillary clinton signaled she would be willing to accept a proxy war with russia and syria. foreign policy really motivated voters to select against hillary clinton and for donald trump on this idea that we didn't need yet more lengthy wars that we had difficulty getting out of. it was also the debate where donald trump points out that she supported abortion through all nine months of pregnancy. she was unable to respond to that. that was very significant, but not significant in the minds of the media, who all tend to have the same ideas about what's important. it tends to be complete the out of touch with what the average merrie converter thinks, and so the debates are important because people can see for themselves what they think is important rather than being told by the media what they think is good or bad. >> melissa: marie, what advice would you give to the candidates in style versus substance? you saw joe biden over the weekend saying things like "the president isn't very smart, he doesn't know a lot of things," seemingly going to the

president's level where you do sort of the name-calling and the personal attacks versus the substance. would you tell him to get back to substance on the debate? >> marie: i think debates are actually mostly about style, with a little bit of substance thrown in. i think it matters most in the first 20-30 minutes. people have short attention spans. they will tune and write at the beginning. unless there are some earth shattering moments, 75 minutes and come of the most important time for these candidates is right off the top. i think so much of it is style. people vote yes based on substance, but also on how politicians make them feel. feel about their lives, about the future. whether they trust them. those are intangibles that come in on these kinds of debate stages in the style they take, the tone that they take, and the way they interact with each other. substance matters. hillary clinton had a lot more than donald trump in 2016, but his style was so powerful that joe biden has to match that tomorrow night. i think he can.

>> melissa: harris, real quick, what do you think of what marie just said? that sounded pretty accurate to me. >> harris: i think you're hitting the nail on the head. i think it's an important debate particularly because we are in a covid-19 pandemic, and people aren't seeing these candidates out on the campaign trail, knocking on their doors, so on and so forth. maybe to a certain degree with donald trump as president and his team, but overall not the way they normally would. voters are telling me that they are looking for what a leader does in that very moment, more so, as marie is pointing out, than anything else. they want to see him think on his feet tomorrow night, whichever hymn they are backing. >> melissa: very true investigating the investigators. testifying on capitol hill over the origins of the russia probe, as senator lindsey graham warns more bombshells will drop. ♪

>> harris: the senate investigation into the origins of the fbi russia probe is ramping up again. judiciary committee chair lindsey graham says the bureau's former number two, andrew mccabe, will testify on october 6th, and ex-fbi director

james comey will testify this wednesday. the chairman's warning more bombshells are about to drop. >> every time there was exculpatory evidence regarding the carter page warrant, they hid it or they altered it. they never told the court that the dossier wasn't reliable. they knew it wasn't reliable. they weren't searching for the truth, they were trying to get an outcome. there is a day of reckoning coming. just stay tuned. and there's more coming. there is something else coming. more damning than this. >> harris: we are almost to the end of the show, so quick answers this lightning round. mollie, you've been riding a lot about this. i will come to you first. >> mollie: it's absolutely wonderful that, if information comes out, everything about what happened here should be declassified and given to the american people. but it's also true that this isn't enough. people need to be indicted for what they did. pretty much everything the media has claimed about the story in the last two years has turned out to be wrong. the malfeasance is throughout

many different agencies, and it was real wrongdoing. we get all these blockbuster pieces of information now, and i think people are tired of hearing about it. but people need to go to jail for the criminal leaking, for the criminal spying, the criminal undermining of an incoming administration. for people who claim to care about peaceful transference of power, that didn't happen in 2016. it is still ongoing. people need to be held accountable so americans can trust their government. >> harris: bret, i want to get you in. >> bret: just quickly, this is the longest deep teas have ever seen from senator graham saying something is coming. he's in a tight race in south carolina. hopefully there is more information, because what we are learning just in recent weeks has been troubling and not picked up a lot of other places besides here. >> harris: all right. quick thoughts. marie? >> marie: declassified at all. i am sure that there is nothing inappropriate or criminal. this is a legitimate investigation and this is about one thing, as bret mentioned.

lindsey graham is in a tough reelection fight that he very well could lose, and he's trying to get the vote out for him. that's it. >> harris: melissa? >> melissa: we look at employees, fbi employees, people part of the investigation talking to each other on an internal website, saying that this is rabbit holes and nonsense and other quotes. if really this is true, that they felt they were being driven to investigate something that wasn't real for political reasons, and they are talking about it in print, this is something that, as molly said, need to be investigated and people need to be punished because the government isn't supposed to work this way. >> harris: i felt the lightning. it was fabulous. thank you, everybody. we are going to scoot to the commercial. more "outnumbered" in a moment. rates have now fallen even lower. by refinancing at newday you can save $3000 a year every year. with their va streamline refi, there is no income verification no appraisal, no out of pocket costs and no va paperwork for you.

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>> melissa: thank you to everyone for watching what is

going to be a very consequential week here on fox. join us all week. that does it for us. now, my good friend harris. ♪ >> harris: let's get right to the news. president trump now set to hold an event in the rose garden this afternoon as the 2020 campaign reaches a critical moment. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. the countdown is on to the first presidential debate, now tomorrow night. when president trump and joe biden will face off in cleveland, ohio. the big event moderated by our own chris wallace. amid a growing battle now over the president's repeated calls for biden to be drug tested ahead of the debate, claiming he could be on performance-enhancing drugs. the biden campaign firing back, "if the president thinks his best case is made in urine, he can have at it. we'd expect nothing less from donald trump." president trump