>> bill: there is alliance, ohio, the first stop on joe biden's train tour. >> sandra: he will go to on pennsylvania. the president in minnesota. we are be back here tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> ♪ >> melissa: a fox news alert. reaction after last night's first presidential debate and the tension was high in cleveland, ohio. president trump and joe biden sparring throughout the evening on a range of issues from the coronavirus pandemic to the u.s. supreme court vacancy and the integrity of our elections. the debate frequently got personal. >> i resent --know. >> i am talking about hunter. hunter got thrown out of the military. >> everybody knows he is a liar.

>> don't ever use the word smart with me. there is nothing smart about you. >> it's hard to get any word in with this clown. >> i have done in 47 months than you have done in 47 years, joe. >> would you shut up! that was real a productive segment. keep yapping. >> harris: both the trump and biden campaign declared victory today. this is "outnumbered overtime." i am harris faulkner. with melissa francis and sarah sanders. joining us today co-host of "the five" juan williams. good morning and good afternoon. happy wednesday sarah, i will begin with you. your response to watching this in real time last night was

what? >> certainly i think there were moments that were very hard to hear and follow them back and forth between the two candidates. it's less about the style of the debate and more about the substance of the two candidates. two places that the president did, it was the top two issues that voters care about. he continued to make a strong case for himself on what he has already done on the economy and what he will continue to do. and pointed out that joe biden and even got biden to say it again, he is willing to shut down the economy. he will raise taxes on americans. those are big areas of contrast between the two candidates that were very stark last night. also on law and order. a huge contrast between the two individuals on the substance. when could hear and break through that back and forth, donald trump continued to talk

about law and order. joe biden could not name a single law enforcement individual or operation that was supporting him. i think those are two big take aways from the night and two big things that voters will pay attention to when they go to the polls in november. >> harris: you talk about when you could hear it between the clutter and the back and forth and the chaos. the big question today, whose strategy represents the tone that voters want to hear? they were very different. sarah you layout where they were different on laired. -- law and order. they were different in how they approached this. president trump on the attack. joe biden the times -- it was interesting. calling the president a clown. what is your take? >> i don't think any minds were changed. i think if you loved president trump before this debate, maybe you love him more. i think if you hated president trump, maybe you hate him more.

that was my feedback when i spoke to individuals that were watching the debate. i don't think it swayed voters. i don't know how many people are undecided at this point. i think joe biden struck more of the right tone here. one thing he did i thought was impactful and something sarah palin used to do in debates, he spoke directly to the audience. on coronavirus he looked directly into the camera, if you had a loved one who suffered from this. he did that throughout the night and managedine though -- managed even though they both interrupted each other, he was trying to have a conversation and donald trump interrupted him. this is not a campaign rally. what works in a campaign rally is throwing out those lines, like he is not that smart or you

graduated at the bottom of your glass. that doesn't work in a debate. this is supposed to be about policy and getting the undecideds to feel like you are the better option. joe biden's job was to seem like he was coherent and handle the debate stage. i think he did that. i think president trump needs to be a little bit more measured and take and of that tone he uses in rallies and recognize it's a very different forum. >> harris: what is interesting about that, juan, there were just hardly any people in the room. they were only allowed a few guests per candidate. we are in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic. what she said is so true. you could hear a few collapse

-- claps right off the top. this was not a rally. does that make it more difficult to build-up steam and energy and explain the strategy? your thoughts? >> well, we are taking about tonality. who was that tone directed at. for both campaigns they are after female voters in the american suburbs. i could not help but think it's like a woman hearing some belligerant man saying i am talking over you. i am smarter than you are. i don't think that tone works for that target audience of american women if the way that anybody would have wanted if you were in the trump campaign. they need to change the dynamics of the race at this moment because they are trailing in the polls. the president needed some kind of boost.

i am not sure that he was on target. i specifically note when the whole topic of biden's sons came up and initially the vice-president was talking about beau biden who served in afghanistan. president trump's response was i don't know beau. he didn't say i honor his service. he shifted to the attack on hunter biden interrupting and went after hunter biden. the response from joe biden was my son has a drug problem and he has overcome it. many off understand what it is to have a family member with a drug problem. in terms of the tone, i thought biden was relatable in that moment. and what she said about speaking to the audience, it's not about him, it's about you. that tone struck me as more effective.

>> harris: you are talking about finesse. you can go on the attack biyou have to finesse in and out of those moments. that was missing with all of the shouting. melissa, a quick thought and then we will move to law and order? >> melissa: i agree with everything i heard before. all of the points that were made. i think that neither candidate gained anything last night which is different from saying no one won. neither picked up anything new. some are saying maybe that was the president's tragedy. -- strategy. to be so over the top that a lot of people tuned out because they could not take the screaming. the good points that were made got loss. some people were turned off and won't return to the race, won't return to the debates and may not vote. cynics say that was the president's strategy. >> harris: you have more than 1.2 million americans who

already voted and 28 states already voting. both men heading to swing states. the president going to minnesota where people started voting two fridays ago. that's a notable change. another hot topic was violent protesting in cities across america. president trump accused joe biden of failing to rebuke far left rioters and stand up for law enforcement in democrat led cities. >> you can't even say the word law enforcement because you would lose all of your radical left supporters. the people of this country demand law and order and you are afraid to even say it. >> harris: chris wallace asked joe biden if he called the mayor or governor of oregon to put an

end to the violence? >> i don't hold public office now. i made it clear that the violence should be prosecuted. >> harris: jedi, your reaction? >> he is making it clear now. he was very late to the party on this. on this issue, this is president trump's stretch. he's been calling this out from the beginning and talking about the violence in the streets. many people are terrified across the country. they watched their businesses be destroyed. they are afraid for there are families. joe biden and the democrats ignored that at the dnc. there were back lash so they came out to respond. i think his answer about not being an elected official. that's valid. it's not his position to call mayors and governors. but he should have been making

a public statement. he needs to distinguish himself from the defund the police movement. many people in the democrat party are extremist on this issue. he recognized. that i think the campaign tried to pivot him away from that. is it too little too late? do people trust a biden administration watching democratic led cities across the country go in a horrific direction and not supporting law enforcement? that's the question on the table. >> harris: sarah, i was talking with radio reporters this morning after the debate. one thing that came up were the missed opportunities that president trump had on this issue with joe biden. he declared he was not going to support the far left. he is the party! that sort of talk. the missed tints. -- opportunities.

with regard to law and order the president had openings but he missed. >> i think it's hard for joe biden in one sentence in the debate to say i am the democrat party and then only moments later say, i am not an elected official. i don't think i get to have it both ways. if he is the true leader of the democrat party which by definition as the nominee to be president for his party, i think he is right in that. he is showing an unwillingness to stand up to the radical left mob that is pulling the strings for his party. he hasn't shown a capability ever standing up to them. that was a problem for him last night on a number of fronts but specifically to law and order. they came late to the party.

earlier in this process at the beginning of the riots and the looting, they had many campaign staffers and the vice-presidential nominee herself encouraging people to give funds to bail out violent protestors. that's a big problem for them going forward. as this continues to be front and center for a lot of voters over the coming weeks. people want to know they can be safe in their communicates. they want to know they have a president who is fighting to make sure law and order is at the top of their agenda, whether they are in office or not in office. they want to know that's a person that is fighting for safety. i don't think joe biden demonstrated that at all last night. i think that will be a problem for him moving forward if he can't do that. >> harris: sarah, you have been talking to voters on social media. you are saying people are telling you this. this is what is important to

them. juan, when the president had a moment to go after joe biden, it was a moment where joe biden said no, i don't want to defend the police. these were important issues. but he is notting wanting it bo. >> going back to the debate the former vice-president was clear in saying he did not support to defund the police. it people are involved in violence they should be prosecuted and put in yale. -- jail. he was clear in saying he thinks peaceful protests are distinct from violence, rioting and

looting. i don't know there was any way he did not come across clearly on that point. i contrast that with what tru truck -- struck me painfully when the question was asked of president trump will condemn violence from white supremacy? with the proud boys his response was stand down but standby. he refused to say that, that kind of violence against peaceful protestors is not something that people should be embracing. it should be condemned especially in terms of the white supremacy without any equivocation. >> harris: juan, senator tim scott was another network and asked about this issue. he said i think he misspoke. i think he should correct it.

if he doesn't correct it, i guess he didn't misspeak. that's interesting. we may see more news on this today. let's move on. bye-bye bernie sanders. joe biden appears to throw senator sanders under the bus to deflect the president's allegation that biden is beholden to the left. how that could affect his performance on election day. >> you agreed with bernie sanders. >> there is no manifesto. >> let him speak, mr. president. >> you just lost the left! veterans: you know mortgage rates have fallen to 50-year lows. but did you know that your va benefit lets you easily refinance to a lower rate? one call to newday can save you $3000 a year. with newday's va streamline refi there's no income verification, no home appraisal, and no out of pocket costs.

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>> ♪ >> the fact of the matter is i

beat bernie sanders. >> not by much. >> i bet him a hell of a lot. >> they are dominating you. >> i am the democrat party. >> not according to harris. >> the platform is what i approved of. what i approved of. >> harris: he did approve of it. bernie sanders i hardly know you. joe biden appeared to push sanders aside and distancing himself from the left wingand rejecting the green deal championed by sanders and aoc. >> i don't support the green deal. i support the biden plan which is different. >> melissa: this joe biden trying to make himself seem more mainstream. if you drill down on the details where he said he doesn't support the green deal, what he is talking about is the bind plan for clean energy revolution and

environmental justice. it's a 1.7-trillion dollars plan that talks about things like environmental justice where when you look at the writings and work of sanders and warren, they talk about this new era of shareholder capitalism and an economic awakening followed by an enlightenment transferring the means of production to government. they say they redistribute it to people. if you look at how this social worked in the past, it has meant power for those few to dole out where you see fit. he said he is to the right of biden, but if you read the -- i mean to sanders, it seems like he is to the left of sanders. >> yes. it's another version of the green deal. it's just less expensive. if you look at the numbers.

the green deal was outrageously priced. he figured out let me come out and do something else. renaming it that's a tactic. i am not for that. i am for something else. you rely on people to not read the fine print and find the end result is identical or worse. this is all strategy on the part of the biden camp. they decided to zero if on undecided voters. saying i am not medicare for all, i am obamacare. with the hope that bernie sanders's supporters will support him because they are voting against donald trump. that's terrificy. a lot of people that supported bernie sanders in the aoc wingthat will stay home am i don't know how many. this is alon language game.

this relies on people digging in on policy which we will need in the future. you need people taking the initiative, journalists saying what is this all about? do i support this? would be this good for the country? what would this do for the average energy costs for people across the country who struggle to pay electric bills and put food on the table for their families. these are questions that need to be asked. >> melissa: juan, what do you think about what joe biden calls environmental justice? have you read the details of this? it's socialism? >> i don't think that. what joe biden said last night, you have a different approach to a crisis in terms of climate change and its effect on our country. everything from the wildfires to the terrible storms we have experienced. he said to the contrary, what

you can do you can look at renewable energy that would generate jobs and lower prices. it requires that you put time, money and ideas on the table to look at this differently. we are not going to reliance on coal or fossil fuels. we have to look to a new day. i think this was an important juncture. you have to say to the american people, here's what i would accomplish for you. not just arguments about going backwards and not arguments about you are a socialist. no you are not. it's tiresome. if you have real ideas and a vision for the future put it on the table and biden at least had one. >> melissa: sarah, juan described about going back to

what we had under president obama. they picked winners and losers in the environmental game and wasted taxpayer dollars on things that didn't pan out. you either believe what joe biden wrote on his website or what juan is saying and that's what joe biden was saying last night, this we would go back to what we had? >> i think one thing joe biden has tried to do is have it both ways. trying to appeal to the far radical left of his party and pretend to be a moderate. you can't do both. look at the website and the details of the plan he put out. it says that the new green deal is the framework for his plan. he can't have that on his website and then try to distance himself from it and say that's not what he is doing. at the end of the day, he will

put energy in this country. we have fought to be energy independent. it will be job killing. job destroying for many of the places that joe biden needs voters: pennsylvania, ohio, some of those key states will be really, really impacted by the policies that joe biden and his administration would put forward. i think the president needs to push hard or that and make that contrast more clear moving forward. >> melissa: harris, quick reaction before we go? >> harris: aoc put it this way. she said our differences are why i joe biden community task force to address the planetary crisis. trump doesn't believe climate change is real. if the discussion whether or not this party will be divided, aoc responds but the only people who really count go to the polls. did biden win any of them over

last night talking about these issues? >> melissa: james comey testing before lawmakers over his role in the trump russia trial implicating hillary clinton next.

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was about and this whole election was about. does your president understand what you are going through and does he care about it? has he been able to walk a mile in your shoes? or does he just ignore you, look down on you. lie to you? like this president did when he told ohio workers that don't sell your house. because no more factories will close. what i saw last night was all about him. he didn't speak to you or your concerns or the american people even once. donald trump broke his promise. he said he was running to help the forgotten american. as soon as he got elected he forgot them. i will never forget. i understand what you do. wall street did not build this country. ceo's didn't build this country. hard working american people built this country. the middle-class built the

country and unions built the middle-class. i tell you what, i never forget that where i came from. a measure of our success as a nation is not how well the stock market is doing. it's what families are able to deal with at their kitchen table. many of the people will hear this today woke up this morning at a kitchen table with an empty chair or one less chair. they lost someone. 205,000 dead from covid. over 7 million infected. what happened last night? did you hear a word from the president about any of that? look, what we saw last night was set by trump. for 36 years i took a 250 round

trip every day to commute. i got to know engineers and the folks in the food service cart. as night as i rode home between washington and baltimore, i would see those lights on in the homes along the tracks. middle-class homes. 3 bottom split level times i grew up in. i would wonder, what are they talking about? no, honey, you have to ride on those tires for another 6,000 miles. we can't afford new ones right now. who will tell him or her they can't go back to that school because we don't have the money? i can remember my father, we lived in a 3 bedroom house is 4 kids and a grand pop. i can remember the walls are thin. i remember my dad rolling around at night.

i remember asking my mom what is the matter with dad? she said we just lost insurance. we have no health insurance. these are the things that people are worried approximate. my guess is that the same thing is happening everywhere in america. the question people are asking is: is it going to be okay? folks, this election in my view is between scranton and park avenue. between alliance and park avenue. it's about whether or not the parents will look their kids in the eye and say it's going to be okay. that's what we talked about on the way down here on the train. we talked about it all along this whistle stop tour. i am coming in to places where people are hurting. where people lost their jobs where there used to be real opportunity. this is all about my view. how we are going to support working families. to give people an equal shot so they can be able to have a chance to just make a decent

living. to protect your pensions and healthcare and make wealthy corporations pay their fair share, that's what this is about. it's a grade off. -- tradeoff: do we allow corporate americans to pay not tax while you have your healthcare taken away in the name of we can't afford it? do we allow billion airs to get a $30 million tax rate so they pay a lower rate than you do as a school teacher. what should we be doing right now and for the last 5 months? the president instead of on the golf course should be in the oval office to invite democrats and republicans to be there and settle we make sure how we bail out small businesses that are going under.

making sure people can keep their insurance and making sure we have the ability to open our stores and schools safely. it costs money to do that. he is doing nothing. i find it fascinating. at the end of the election, holding a hearing on the supreme court justice but the senate doesn't have time to deal with making sure schools and businesses have the ppe they need and the sanitary conditions and the money to pay to open up. doesn't have the capacity and so on. it's amazing. they have time to rush through a nominee but no time to deal with the every day concerns of the american people. not withstanding where we are right now, i am extremely optimistic. i am optimistic that because of the american people know this is not who we are. they are ready to get up again. they are ready to come back.

we just have to give them a shot. so, we for a better position than any nation in the world that take back this 21 st century. but we can only do it together. if i get elected president, i won't the democrat president. i will be an american president. i will represent you whether you vote for me or against me. this is about the united states of america. our place in the world and the security and well being of people just given an equal chance to have a shot at the american dream that is denied them right now. thank you very much for listening. i am happy to take questions. i don't know where to start. yes? >> what did you learn last night about going face-to-face to president trump? would you do anything different the next time? there is talk two more debates

are not worth having. >> [laughing]. it's not an inconsequential assertion. he did what i expected him to do last night. he announced what he was going to do. he announced -- think the phrase was now he can become really vicious. last night, reenforced me for me why i got in the race in the first place. i said when i got in the race we are in a battle for the soul of this country. you can see me? should i turn this, this way a little bit? you know, trump's constant disregard and unwillingness to speak to covid and the fact two 205,000 people have already died and over 7 million are infected and it's likely to get worse. he didn't want to talk about it at all. in terms of election legitimacy,

he made it clear if he lost it's not a legitimate election and already planting seeds of doubt. i don't know any president who has ever done that before. with asked would he condemn white supremacy? he didn't say a word. i said what about the proud boys? he said i told them to stand down and stand ready? stand down and stand ready? based on the outcome of the election. last night was a wake up call for all americans. what i tried to do last night, i tried to speak directly into the camera to the american people, to talk about their concerns. to talk about what is on their minds and talk about what i would do were i president. trump has no plan. no ideas. didn't express a single plan on how to move forward.

it made me realize that just how much is at stake. you know for 90 minutes, he tried everything to drastic. it just did not work. i hope the next debate will be in front of real live people. it's a town hall. i hope we are able to -- i look forward to it and i hope we are able to actually answer the questions that are asked by the persons in the room. but god only knows what he will do. yes? >> is there any scenario where you would not debate the president in the next two debates? are there any changes you want to see made by the commission before you debate? >> well, he not only attacked me constantly and my family, but he

attacked the moderator. [laughing]. again on his tweets this morning or last night. i just hope there is a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruptions. i am not going to speculate on what happens in the second or third debates. my hope is they are able to literally say, the question gets asked of trump. he has a microphone and has. twos to answer. -- two minutes to answer. and no one else has a microphone. i am looking forward to it. >> what do you have to say to those undecided voters who were watching last night and were turned off by politics? >> i can understand it. i kind of thought at one point, maybe i should not say this, but

the president of the united states conducted himself the way he did -- hmmm, i think it was a national embarrassment. but look, hmmm, i just hope that the american people and those undecided voters try to determine what each of us has as an answer for their concerns and allows us to speak. yes, sir? >> thank you, mr. vice-president. you mentioned the president's comments about the proud boys. stand back and standby. today they made that a rallying cry around that slogan. what are your fears about the implications of the president's rhetoric and do you have a message for the proud boys today? >> cease and desist.

the american people will decide who the next president of the united states will be, period. i am urging the american people go out and vote. show up. you can vote early, vote early. vote whatever way is most convenient for you, but vote. if you show up in large enough numbers, nothing is going to change. i promise you, if we win this election, this president will step down. a lot of bravado. he has no alternative. the american people won't stand for it. no agency will stand for that happening. my message to the proud boys and every white supremacy group, cease and desist. this is not who we are as americans. >> last question. >> i will let you pick somebody because we have everybody out here. >> mr. vice-president, thanks for giving me a question.

>> yes. >> okay. it's about last night. you said a few things that put distance between yourself and the liberal wing of the party on the green deal and medicare for call. can you talk about whether or not you could be going too far to the center and alienating some people on the left? have you spoken to aoc today? >> noi have not. i appreciated her endorsement. look, we had a debate with 22 to 25 people in the democratic party. i said at the time i would tell you exactly what i believed. i would say why i believed it and why i was running. that's exactly what i did. i did not support medicare for

all and don't support now. i support the biden plan i laid out. i laid out the details of how i will get us to net zero emissions in the energy sector by 2035. putting thousands ever people to work. i laid out how i will get us to net zero emissions in the united states of america by 2050 across the board. how i rejoined the paris court i helped put together. the green deal that the president keeps talking about it's not a bad deal, but it's not the plan i have. it's the biden green deal. what the president keeps trying to do, he is trying to run against somebody other than me. i have said to the left and the right and the center, exactly where i am. on each of these issues. i did have time and i have worked very hard with all segmentes of the party. we put together a platform that is a platform i fully support.

the president keeps talking about -- what does he call it? he as some name for our platform. i can't remember what it is. the manifesto. thank you. well, the democratic platform is the one i signed on to. the one that the vast majority of democrats signed on to. the democratic party is big. we have all kinds of folks in it with different views. they are all welcome. we negotiated and debated and have a primary and i won. i am not worried about losing the left, right or center of the party. this is a big party. i have one of the most progressive record of any democrat. it's my record and what i want to do. >> [inaudible].

>> will get in trouble with the conductor. i would like to say and answer these questions. do i think he created a crisis in confidence? all you have to do is looking at the polls your networks run. a significant number of the american people are worried about what he recommends having anything to do -- to deal with the covid crisis. they have lost confidence in him. so that's why i think it's really important that the scientists continue to speak out. say exactly what constitutes an appropriate approach to deal with covid whether it's a vaccine or any other proposal. god willing, we will have a vaccine sooner than later. god willing we will be able to distribute it as rapidly as possible. it gets down to the american people have to have trust in

what the president says. it's clear many, many people don't trust him. as it relates as well to businesses. they say open up. even businesses that open up are having trouble getting people to come in because the president says things that are just not accurate. i am confident that we are going to get on this train or y'all will have to run behind it. we have to get going. thank you, all, very much. >> thank you. >> there he is post-debate first time taking questions. former vice president biden gave a speech this morning in cleveland. but today on this whistle stop at alliance, ohio, on his train tour swinging through swing states, he took questions from reporters. normally that would not be the

news. the news would be the answers, but this is kind of a big deal that he took as many because there were quite a few members of the press there. the headline that he said he is looking forward to the next debate. some have said there are some democrats who are looking to tell biden don't do any debates after the one last night. i want to go to sarah sanders now. the obvious person who is missing in the mix is the man with the biggest pulley pulpit in the world. why not go first today? we had joe biden schedule? >> i think president trump will make his mark known. where did that press corp come from? how come i didn't get softball questions like. that i am jealous of joe biden and the press conference he just

had. i don't understand why there were no tough questions. it was all about how he felt about donald trump and the debates. nothing about his own answers. i would have liked to see them hold his feet to the fire like they do the president every day when he takes questions. certainly since he does it often. i wonder where that group of reporters came from and why they never showed up in the briefing room. i would have liked questions like those he just got. >> harris: i will brag on you because i have seen you in the mix. one thing you were was organized and knew who you wanted to tell the president to call on. you wanted tougher questions. i have seen it up close. my question would be why was joe biden looking for help doing that? where is his team? i don't think any of us can answer that. juan williams, a question for you. last night the former vice president biden made it clear that he has stepped away from

the left wing, this is my party. not the green deal. the biden. where are we now with that? is that a morph of the two? saying aoc i hear you? >> i think he was clear. he said it's a very big party. there are lots of opinions in it. he made it clear to everybody from the right, the left, the center, who he is. he came up with his own plan. i thought that was a tough question by the way am i think lots of people not even inside the democratic party but beyond the democratic party have questions about how biden is going to relate to the far left wing of the party to aoc and others. to bernie sanders who says he is a socialist. and whether or not in the president's words biden will be a puppet for him. here was biden answering a tough

question quite well. didn't look like he was looking for his marbles. that's for sure. when you think about not only that question, but the question with regard to future debates , that's the question of the moment and he answered it. >> harris: just a little time, your thoughts? >> yes, the most important thing we just saw was the tone. he is coming from a place that is his strategy of empathy. he is saying to people i get you. i understand. i have lived it. that's important right now. because yes, it's triggering an emotional space. let's focus on the fact but the country is in an emotional place. when you talk about covid-19 people have lost loved ones and cities are burning down and parentses making decisions about

whether to send kids to school. these are emotional. emotion will be part of the decision making with voters. that's a priority with him. i think the trump campaign needs to pay attention to. that one thing they were criticized on is the issue of ament pathy. -- empathy. this would be a key component. >> harris: next up for president trump is minnesota. he was just there a couple of fridays ago when they started their in person voting. we will eventually get to see the president in rally mode. it's a make america great again rally. we are going to step away and take a commercial break.

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>> melissa: it looked like joe biden was reading his answers in the last segment. here's harris. >> harris: president trump and joe biden campaigning in key swing states. we just saw joe biden in one and the president going to the next one later today. after last night's verbal brawl at the first debate. this is "outnumbered overtime" and i am harris faulkner. former vice president biden spoke and we watched it live on fox news channel. kicking off his campaign's train tour in ohio before heading to pennsylvania. president trump will travel to a make america again rally this evening. all of the talk today is about last night's first presidential debate that veered off topic from the coronavirus pandemic to name