>> the lights on even on. >> it is great to be with you. i forgot about management for these three hours. i will see you in new york, okay? >> sandra: too much information, bill, great to have you this morning, "outnumbered" starts now. ♪ >> harris: and we come in with this alert, the stage now being set in salt lake city, utah, for the first and only vice presidential debate i in te 2020 race. vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris will be facing off in the debate taking on increased importance during this election cycle. as you might imagine, president trump remains quarantined in the white house with covid-19. the pandemic expected to be a big focus tonight along with the economy. the trump campaign says amy conepencewill seize on kamala hn support of far left policies. >> he is going to talk about and ask the tough questions on

kamala, regarding why she was an original and continues to be an original cosponsor of medicine, bernie sanders medicare for all to eliminate 180 million private plans as well as a cosponsor to the green new deal. >> harris: and on the other side of the political aisle, the biden campaign suggesting harris will go after pence on the administration's early response to coronavirus. >> she will be on stage with mike pence, but the debate will be about the trump administration failures over the last four years. you know, nothing that happens in the debate tonight will change the fact donald trump and mike pence light about the coronavirus. >> harris: you are watching outnumbered, i am harris faulkner and today melissa's frank or of "the story, martha maccallum from salt lake city ahead of tonight's debate, executive director serve america pectin fox news contributor marie for

an white house press secretary for jewel filmic george w. bush, great to see everybody today. i want to start in salt lake city so martha i'm coming straight to you some changes. we have just seen some video, the partition and i noticed the moderator doesn't have the partition but tell us what we will see that is kind of different? >> this is debate styled 2020 in the world of covid. there is constant changes. who would imagine a debate environment where one of the biggest stories of the morning that everyone is tested and both tested negative. the idea that perhaps this couldn't happen seems to have gone by the wayside. that is good news from salt lake. and you have the plexiglas partitions the subject of debate between the campaigns yesterday. there was a little bit of back and forth whether the trump campaign did not want the plexiglas around their area. and you get a look at this

stage, it is there. we don't know what the impact is going to be on the way they interact with the plexiglas but we hope it will feel sort of been visible on the stage because obviously you want to get these folks interactive, responding to each other. this is the moment we are living in politically and it changes our by our. >> harris: that is so true. some of the news flow today is changing when it comes to the coronavirus so when you talk about the physical cues that we are in 2020, this comes to mind as well. ari, before i come to you i want to hear from dr. anthony fauci because he is talking about daunting numbers and no doubt this will come up at the debate tonight. let's watch. >> the models tell us if we do not do the kind of things that we are talking about in the cold of the winter, we can have 300,000 to 400,000 deaths. that would be just so tragic if

that happens. >> harris: ari, your thoughts on what the vice president needs to do as he heads up the task force on covid-19. and with what dr. fauci said, it is jarring. >> ari: mike pence's job tonight is simple and clear, three words "smoke them out. he has got to make the case, harris how liberal the ticket is. >> harris: so skip the coronavirus? >> ari: no come i will get to that. he has to play offense first. you have to make the case about what is wrong with the other guy. this has been a referendum on donald trump and donald trump is losing the referendum. the trump/b19 has to make a choice between the biden/harris ticket and when it comes to the choice, he will smoke them out on how liberal they are in every position out there. this is where unpacking the court, unpacking the tenant with fake new states. he has to spell out why harris will not answer the questions

and a technique and she won't answer and won't answer in the moderator lets her get away, he has to step back and say america, the reason she won't answer that question is because she is going to be and biden will be with aoc, nancy pelosi, and they are too weak to tell you and stand up to the liberals. that is what this race is about. you have to play offense. because playing defense on the virus is vital, but it will not win the election. it is that bad for the administration when it comes to the corona. we have to open up the ideological front. >> harris: that is surprising. because you know they will hit it hard on coronavirus tonight. on the offense, i will say this, marie, what ari it might be easier to do with kamala harris when you look at her voting record and her recent track record in the state of california which is one of the most liberal in the nation in

terms of its policy. so what does she need to do on that stage is pence close on the offense as ari is suggesting, and call her out on policies. >> marie: donald trump has tried that with the biden campaign the last few months saying they are tools of the left but let me tell you the left wishes that was the case of my party. but what kamala harris will have to do tonight is state very clear that joe biden is the president. a presidential nominee, he would be the president. he does not support medicare for all, for example. so whatever kamala harris own feelings are, positions are, she is the number to cohere. she will face something i would imagine like joe biden doesn't support medicare for all. but he supports more americans having health care and independent experts have said under his proposed stick to obamacare, more americans would appear at mike pence, your administration is important today to strip those protectiony with no plans to replace it.

so i think she will be very clear that the trump administration has tried to make the biden/harris ticket look liberal, but they haven't had a lot of success yet because joe biden himself is actually quite moderate. and the policies he support don't stand up to that sort of liberal, aoc fearmongering that trump has tried to do. >> harris: as i go to melissa, i will push back a little bit on that, marie kimura lot. i think they are policies are on tonight. you know why, kamala harris is tending to a guy next to 78 years old next year. and potentially if he were to win, the oldest president in office. the current president has covid-19, and again, no events on his schedule today. he's trying to recover and get well. of course, we all wish him the best. mike pence and kamala harris have to focus the spotlight on them and their records do count or not, melissa? >> melissa: i think they very

much count. i think that joe biden has head every position on every issue. he has stood at the debate and in other forums. you know said he would support medicare for all even though he didn't mean that. kamala harris has stated very plainly that you want to talk about getting rid of people's insurance, that she would immediately tminate all private health care. she has said that. when politicians say something and then they go back on it and then they say something it again, you can't trust the words coming out of their mouth. so it is a very fair thing to think that joe biden doesn't necessarily stand for anything. maybe he's pretending to be a moderate today. maybe he will pretend to be super bowl mike super liberal tomorrow and maybe he doesn't ce about anything. he is just out there to be the president and you have no idea who will be pulling the strings behind him. so i think it is very much about these two candidates that are

out there tonight. as you said, as far as mike pence is concerned, i think ari's advice is fantastic. i do think he should go on offense. i think he is one of the most disciplined politicians that i have seen, mike pence. he is always able to stay on message and to not get pushed and to stay very calm. and we will see a lot of that tonight. i do expect kamala harris to put in a great performance as well. she is a prosecutor. she is very good in this forum and i think it will be great viewing. >> harris: martha, i will come back to you. go ahead, ari. >> ari: real quickly on dr. fauci and i'm a tremendous admirer of him. i worked with him in 2001 and have deep respect for him. but about a month ago when corona cases were searching to 60,000 a day he said at the time i would not be surprised if we have 100,000 a day. since then it has dropped down 30,000 a day. he is a wonderful man but is not always right. >> harris: all right.

you know, one thing just to finish up, ari, in the interview with dr. fauci. he said a lot of people won't listen to him because of the recent past and some opinions they may have of him. but he was hoping people might pay attention to him and i quote him, "for at least six weeks." martha, i promised i would come to you so let's do that quickly on the set up tonight. what do you think because we didn't get a list of topics, but what do you think it could look like in terms of what we see tonight? >> martha: the piece will be a little bit different and broken down ten nine segments or nine ten minute segments and a little bit more organized going topic to topic during the course of this evening. i think one of the goals for both of them is to appear rounded, confident. even though they are running as vice presidential candidates, those are the things that thought was missing in the attacks and some of the language

that joe biden use last time around as well that we hope will be missing tonight. i also want to look for possibility of humor. some of the great moments where you remember from debates in the past were moments that were humorous. we had support that last time around. and i think people respond to that. if one of them can nail that moment tonight, i think that will serve them well. >> harris: can't wait. glad you are there, by the way, salt lake city behind you. special coverage. our special coverage of the vice presidential debate kicks off tonight 6:00 p.m. eastern with "special report" with bret baier and "the story" 7:00 p.m. e eastern and then lie and analysis throughout the evening. make sure you watch vice president pence, senator kamala harris go one-on-one when the debate begins at 9:00 p.m. right here on fox news channel. bob york worn, the director of national intelligence john ratcliffe is the

classifying a treasure trove of documents as they call it on the origins of the russian investigation. the bombshell details involving president obama and hillary clinton that are now sparking pushback from john brennan. >> john radcliffe and others are trying to portray this as potentially deserves a follow-up investigation by the fbi. no, that was a campaign activity. ♪ without having to verify your income, without getting your home appraised, and without spending one dollar out of pocket to get it done. it is the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered.

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john brennan revealing that john brennan briefed president obama on alleged plans by hillary clinton to type president trump to russia in an effort to distract from her email scam. john brennan is firing back accusing them of playing politics. >> whatever he tells us is professional. it is a pulling the information is a sign to advance the political interest of donald trump and republicans who are aligned with him. >> harris: meanwhile, the white house with the release and calling for the revelation not the least bit surprising. >> one of the things he puts and there is to vilify donald trump. i mean, when you look at a coordinated effort and now you see it in his own handwriting, why is this just now coming out to the american people? why after $45 million did mueller not put any of this in his report to say "there could

have been a different narrative." >> harris: so ari, let me start with you. very plain and simple, this is supposedly a note handwritten by john brennan saying that he briefed president obama on a plan that was allegedly approved by hillary clinton, a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisors to vilify donald trump by stirring up the scandal, claiming interference by russian security service. why would he write that down and say that he briefed president obama? what does that tell us? >> ari: one of the greatest unknown questions that i've been trying to get answers to for years is what role did barack obama and joe biden plate and setting in motion the investigation of an approved and its political campaign in 2016? remember in the investigation of hillary we have proof of fbi investigation saying president obama wants to know everything about our investigation of hillary.

and does it surprise anybody that he now wants to know about the investigation into the trump collusion allegations which turned out to be totally wrong? look, there is one simple thing when it comes to liberty, the government has a fantastic, tremendous powers to eavesdrop and monitor the actions of the american people. when the government turns those powers they can stay political campaign, they better have the goods. they didn't have the goods but they did anyway. it is appropriate for this information at the mouth. it is appropriate for people to know what the obama administration did and why. because if you monitor an opponent's campaign and you don't have the goods, you should pay a price. the trump campaign did nothing wrong. if they were subject to the powers of an investigative state thinking they were criminals colluding with russia, they should pay the price and we, the people, should know the facts. >> harris: marie, you have direct experience with this. why do you think john brennan would write in his own hand that

it was a foreign policy advisor that advised hillary clinton of this plan to make it look like president trump was in collusion with russia, the chief of the plan and that president obama was briefed on that? why would he write all of that if that weren't the case? >> marie: well, it is worth taking a little deeper to look into that information he wrote about. according to dni ratcliff himself, that information was told to john brennan by russian intelligence operatives. dni radcliffe has been clear about that in a letter to congress and publicly. what he was talking about was information that was given to him. he and ratcliff himself was clear in a letter to congress that he could not determine whether or not this was russian disinformation that had been given to brennan but putting it out there for people to see. and officials the past few days have said the same thing, this looks like russian disinformation so they dni 20

plus days from an election is releasing what he, himself had said could be russian disinformation in an effort to bolster president trump for his reelection. if that is not playing politics with intelligence, i'm not sure what is. i want all the information about this to be declassified and i've always said that, but i think we need to keep in contact with this information is specifically according to ratliffe himself, melissa. >> harris: actually, you are absolutely wrong about that and martha i will go to you. the opposite of what marie said, marie, if you listen i will read the quote "to be clear, this is not russian disinformation and has not been a set as much by the intelligent information. in his statement to fox news i will be briefing congress on the methods by which it was obtained in coming days. so martha, marie whole point is -- >> marie: he said something

different and i'll letter to congress. melissa, he said something different in a letter to congress. >> harris: martha, go ahead. >> martha: there is a lot a lot, obviously that we don't know about these writings of john brennan. i also think that you can tell a lot from john brennan's outrage that this has surfaced. you know, there is a lot of frustration that the john durham report has not come forward at this point. it was supposed to be out last summer. so i think what we are seeing here is an effort to fill in some of the blanks and to share more with the american people. the more we learn about what has been found, so many memos and letters related to peter strzok and related to this memo is that we didn't get it all in the mueller investigation, which was two years and millions and millions of dollars. so we didn't get it all. now we are getting more information. but it does strike me as so disingenuous that there is this sort of outcry that this is not

verified information, and yet, the dossier which was unverified, all the other information that was sort of thrown into the kitchen sink to continue the phis application against the trump campaign was not treated in the same way. that was treated as gospel and allow the operation to continue and entangle whoever they could in front of the trump campaign members in order to gather whatever they could appear there was a net around that campaign looking for in the low-hanging fruit to do whatever that memos had to try to vilify the trump campaign and to try to tie them with collusion which we all know never bore fruit. that -- you know this whole idea they are outrage that it would be shared at this point, i find honestly almost laughable in light of what they were willing to accept on the other side. and that entire investigation

>> harris: i know we are tight on time. the american people have the right to know exactly what happened here. they do because as ari pointed out, it could be any political campaign against any political campaign, both parties should care about whether or not there, political weapons used to target one or the other. we should just know exactly what happened. at the same time, whenever these investigations come around, i always think on behalf of the american people it would be helpful if they would work out the facts in the details and just tell us. when they come out in these measures of "this is going to be the biggest thing and oh, my gosh," i'm waiting for a candy bar to come with it. because i just get hungry. i want to know what is coming. in thin either it doesn't pan out or it's not quite as clear or whatever, so this is too important of an issue to become politically motivated in one way or the other about how

we are told. we need and deserve the answers. we do. president trump pushing for congress to pass targeted stimulus measures after calling up negotiations with house democrats on a broader bill. the candidates whose sides cannot come together even on that.

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of the headlines now. hurricane delta assure in mexico peninsula today. the category 2 storm to re-strengthen as it moves back into the gulf of mexico before striking the u.s. coast later this week. and court documents showed two british isis known as the beatles have been indicted for torturing and beheading american aid workers and journalist. one held hostage inside syria. they are expected to make their first appearance in federal court later today. and a confrontation between protesters and federal officers in front of portland, oregon,'s immigration and customs enforcement building last night. some of the protesters reportedly threw options over a chain-link fence and officers used tear gas to disperse the crowd. president trump is urging congress to pass targeted stimulus relief for airlines and small businesses and send out

$1200 direct payments to americans. it comes after the president called off negotiations on the broader bill until after the election. speaker pelosi bashing the president's handling of the situation. >> all he has ever wanted in the negotiation was to send out a check with his name printed on it. he is again rebounding from a terrible mistake that he made yesterday. and the republicans in congress are going down the drain with him on that. >> harris: the white house chief of staff mark meadows said he never had any intention of passing covert relief before election day. >> there comes a point where you understand the other side is just playing politics. but the real thing is speaker pelosi didn't want those checks to go out to the american people before november 3rd. we are still willing to be engaged, but i'm not up to mystic for a comprehensive deal. >> harris: ari, anyone who listened to all of this their

head is spinning. let me ask you on the messaging it is very clear both sides want to make it look like this other side doesn't care about your suffering america. who is winning the messaging war on this? >> ari: well, republicans almost always lose the messaging where when it comes to spending equals compassion. anytime republicans say spending too much money, they get beat up especially by the media and looking like you don't care because you won't spend more. my advice to republicans don't make this about the dollar amounts. the american people once one-sixth. it is obvious compromise in the middle, right? numbers don't work but they need to point out the flaws in the bill and take the poison pills out such as, this bill is currently crafted as a giant tax cut for the rich. if you deduct more than $10,000 with state or local income tax or home mortgage interest payments, you get a tax deduction. they got rid of that in the text code years ago.

it only benefits the rich. nancy pelosi wants to put it back because the democrat contributors in the san francisco wealthy people. and also san francisco they deduct more. so that's what republicans need to go after. find those poison pills and make the case. democrat run states with pension programs are trying to get a bill out for the pension programs because they can't run their own states properly. so they are asking other people to bail them out. get those provisions out of there. then we can reach an agreement. that would be the republic case i would make to republicans. >> harris: martha, why aren't they doing that? that is very compelling. >> martha: in thinking the same thing when i listen to ari, great idea. i think you are so right, ari and they listen to the trillion dollar difference in the two proposals and wonder why they can't flip that. they we have seen it both times and times again that they can agree on. and because of the political

edge desire, they refused to come to the table and split the difference and do that. like pretty much anyone else in the country would do if they were in the same situation. i think it is enormously frustration to americans. the bottom line though is that americans want to know that there is more help on the way. i think we are still seeing the next level effects from this covid economy. businesses that thought they might be able to reopen that are now deciding they can't reopen. you look at the layoffs at airlines, disney laying off 28,000 people because people not coming to the park. there is a whole level after this virus is gone, the economic impact will remain. i think there needs to be a message that we will figure out a way to get help. i think it through everybody off a little bit when the president said yesterday the negotiations were off. i'm not sure how ready for that message some of the other players were. when that came out, and now, there is a little bit of an effort to play catch up and reframe that message in a way that looks like they can get

some of the carve outs of the bill perhaps pushed through peer that is what they are hoping for now, targeting help for the airlines, targeted help for the $1200 check. it feels a little bit herky-jerky but we will see what they can pull off. >> harris: he out, marie would nancy pelosi be willing to remove that tax cut for the rich for the bill? >> marie: i can't speak for speaker pelosi but i do know that the democrats in general really do want to compromise here. and i think martha is exactly right, the market was spooked by calling off negotiations. and i think in tough races, you saw him walk it back. and democrats have said, look, we passed something in may that the senate never took up. we passed something last week that the senate never took up. so with the senate is serious about this, they need to come to the table. president trump actually throughout this whole negotiation process had been one of the republicans most willing

to spend more money. it is mitch mcconnell senate that has limb challenges for how much they are willing to defend. but that is a key message for these particularly tight congressional races. senate republicans in tough races right now are saying to mitch mcconnell, we need something. and i think pelosi and the democrats will come to the table. they said they will and get something for airlines, for some other specific pieces of it. >> harris: okay. harris, marie is right that the spook and i think that was president trump's intention. he did the classic walk away from the table and let things see what happen if negotiations stop by coming back and saying, let's do the stand-alone thing. we know what we knew before that he much like marie said does want very much something to happen. he doesn't want a bill. and so we are kind of back where we were. to get think that those were resisting bringing this over the finish line feel any more pressure today than they did

yesterday? >> i think everybody feels pressure. i would not assume what the presidents intentions were unless you ask him and i'm happy to do that. what he did was a back-and-forth. and the tweet that went out 90 minutes or so that said "move fast to nancy pelosi," yeah, it actually may be as just the result of those senators speaking up. and marco rubio on twitter saying, look, you have to do something, paraphrasing arco rubio in case he's watching. i think there were twofold, as martha pointed out from people who didn't know it was coming and some were investors and also, senators who didn't know it was coming wanting to take something home to their people to say, look, to their constituents we will do something. the pressure is back on the president. the pressure is back on nancy pelosi. come up with a deal. >> harris: there you go with the first and only

vice presidential debate just hours away, all eyes on next week's second presidential debate between joe biden and president trump. how the democratic nominee is raising doubt about it actually going down.te ♪ veterans who refi now can save three thousand dollars a year. with newday's va streamline refi, there's no income verification, no appraisal and no out of pocket costs. one call can save you $3000 a year. $3000! that's a big deal. +mdjélt(o-:bd1!@é,úc @: #fc!a=s verizon knows how to build unlimited right. start with america's most awarded network, include the best in entertainment, and offer plans to mix and match starting at $35. plus, get two samsung galaxy s20 fe 5g phones for $200 when you switch. only at verizon.

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aetna medicare advantage plans. medicare annual enrollment ends december 7th. call today to learn more and we'll send you a $10 visa reward card with no obligation to enroll. ♪ >> harris: we are hours away from vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris taking the stage in salt lake city tonight. nl concerns are growing with her president trump and former vice president joe biden will get a chance to face all for a second time. that is supposed to happen next week. the president still testing positive for the virus, but his doctor said he is no longer experiencing symptoms, at least not today. the trump campaign said the president intends to participate in the debate and the president said he's looking forward to it. but the democratic nominee is saying this. >> i think if he still has

covid, we shouldn't have a debate. i think we will have to follow very strict guidelines. too many people have been infected. and it is a very serious problem. >> harris: gosh, i know i'm not a doctor, but i want to tell him to get a better mast so he doesn't keep touching it. there is one thing to add, ari, the president has said even if he has covid, look, maybe he's since taken that back but last report that he would still show up. science aside, i would imagine through the cleveland clinic what that would look like next week and the commission. you are shaking your head at me, why? >> ari: first we have eight days to get this right but it goes without saying if you have covid, you don't go. that is not more complicated than that. this is how we should all live our lives. if you test positive, you have to be respectable about all of those around you. if you are the president and i don't care who you are in life, president, principal at a school come anybody in any walk of life

you stay home and quarantines pier that is particularly the case when you are the president people look to you as an example. i hope he will be over it by then. i hope he doesn't test positive. i hope his doctor gives him the clearance for his sake and for the sake of those who will be at the event with him including vice president biden and the secret service and everybody. but it is a simple matter, in my mind, and i hope everybody's mind including th the president. if you test positive, you quarantine and stay home. >> harris: you an oath this is a debate condition and melissa looking at the options today. let science clinical watching over all of this they have about 65 employees and ari is right about this on the ground with each of these debates as far as i know from watching and reading. and so there are other people, not just the audience to take into context and to get that total perspective of, you know, who is at risk.

>> yes and i agree with ari 100%. no matter who you are come if you test positive, it is your responsibility to make responsibility to stay home and stay home and up over the threshold of your home but stay inside. and i just think -- i don't know, it's another debate. is that the worst thing in the world? the last one my don't think anyone gained anything. i don't know. if it were canceled, maybe people would have a big sigh of relief. >> harris: well, i'm thinking about the 5.1 million people, martha. fox news reporting today and i'm looking at festive statistics coming out of the united states, the project looking into this. and that is a big number across all of those states of people that are either standing in line or in person, male and absentee. >> martha: absolutely. i think voters do want another

opportunity, two more opportunities in a perfect world which we don't live in to see president trump and vice president biden. as >> ari: points out we are eight days away which we know is a lifetime in the current news cycle that we are in, republican national convention from the democratic national convention a few weeks ago. so much can happen in the course of the next eight days. obviously, the president still testing positive, they have to figure out another way to do this. and i think they will. they will be creative in how they get him out there. over the next few days as well, they have 12 people in the white house on the campaign who are at him with this virus right now, including the president. they have to figure out a way to get him in front of the american people on video, to do a virtual rally, to do something because days are ticking away and they need to come up with innovative answers and how to get him out of the campaign trail one way or the other. >> harris: that is really interesting too. all right, marie i will hit you in the next block. i will scoot to this.

i don't know if you seen this nbc news facing criticism after the network's recent town hall with the democratic nominee joe biden. why reporters are asking whether the so-called undecided voters who were there to ask biden questions were really all that undecided. ♪

>> what three actions will you take as president to get us back to being one country versus several little, you know, storms trying to yell about who's running it right? >> american in venezuela voters in florida targeted by messages of the trump campaign claiming the vote for joe biden is a vote for the radical left and socialism and even communism. what can you tell people in my family, my friends, who are understandably concerned with that issue that would make them feel comfortable voting for joe biden and kamala harris? >> harris: nbc news taking heat for billing those two questioners from a town hall they did with joe biden earlier this week as "undecided voters." when in fact, it's sister network had them both on previously. and identified them then as

individuals who are planning to vote for >> harris: 18. >> ari: you are fired up about this. how can they be a party to this and more on your twitter account, what are your thoughts? ari: i can't stand this and i have respect who i have known and for many years. what drives me crazy, we have always known the press is liberal but until this cycle, i would have never thought it could tank like this. this is tank is him. you cannot represent for the people that these folks are undecided when they have taken partisan positions like that. what has happened to the mainstream media? this cycle has broke them, melissa. they take sides, hide it and act like political operatives and they are running journalism. >> harris: marie, what do you think of nbc's actions here? >> marie: well, first we don't know if these voters are now undecided. we have to trust that voters are undecided and accurately saying

who they are voting for. but the second question particularly was actually quite a tough question and members of his family's concern about socialism and some of the things from the far left. look, i thought they asked pretty tough questions. i think they are are actually very few undecided voters out there. but i will not give nbc too much flack if people say they are undecided and want to be a part of the forums, that is probably fine. one other point i want to make, melissa, people should remember this is about the previous segment in this one. in 1960 the third debate between nixon and kennedy was virtual. one on the east coast and one on the west coast. we may see more virtual town halls like this. we may seem virtual debates. there is enough time in the election where it may go virtually which makes this a little more complicated. but i wanted to make sure to mention that before the show ended. >> harris: that is a great thought. martha, if you were hosting a town hall and someone identified themselves or to people as

voters, joe biden voters in a previous town hall and then they wanted to come on your town hall and say they are undecided, would you accept them on the panel and call them on undecided or no, let's just pick somebody else. >> martha: look how easy it was to snuff this out. it is not that hard to find the video from several months ago where they are standing they were essentially saying they are voting for joe biden. now, what marie brings up the case if incumbent when the question to say, you know, you previously said you were supporting joe biden. are you truly undecided now? at least to vet it live if you absolutely have to use that person for another question. i mean, i think it is really, really sloppy. and i would also point out, it is very tough to find undecided voters right now. i think there are a lot of people dug in on both sides at this point. we did a really interesting

panel discussion with college students in utah yesterday. we'd have two for president trump and two the former vice president joe biden and one who said she was on the fence. but in the middle of it, i said, where you leaning? and she said i'm leaning joe biden at this point, but i'm undecided. it is not that hard to make sure that you have people representing all sides. i mean, there is video on all of this, so it's not a good look for nbc for sure. >> harris: know, and it reminds me of during the dnc when they have those boxes of excited people who were watching joe biden and there were a number of boxes where they have the same person in it, that same kind of mistake where you are like, you know, you probably should have been a little bit more thorough. but anyway, more "outnumbered" in just a moment. we will be right back. ♪

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melissa melissa well, i know you are going to watch the debate tonight but before that you must

watch brt and martha right here on fnc. they will give you everything you need to know to watch intelligently and glean everything you can. thank you to everyone for watching us, and thanks for being here. we will see you back here tomorrow. here is harris. >> harris: we begin with being just a few hours away from the one and only vice presidential debate of the 2020 election season. i'm harris faulkner. we are focused on salt lake city utah the site of tonight's faceoff between vice president mike pence and kamala harris. this coming less than a week after president trump tested positive for covid-19. kamala harris reportedly planning to take aim at vice president pence over his role as head of the coronavirus task force. as the biden team is looking to make the case against the second trump-pence term. watch. >> the debate is going to