out. >> harris: joe biden insisting he never spoke with his son about the dealings and calls the recent reports a smear campaign. "you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. with us kennedy. host of fox business "kennedy." fox news contributor jessica tarloff and in the center seat with us today former prosecutor, former south carolina congressman and fox news contributor as well trey gowdy is here, author of the new book "doesn't hurt to ask." a great read. i say that every time because i'm still highlighting and pinpointing those things. here is what i know from you, trey gowdy. there are things it would not hurt to ask in the hunter biden case. what are they? >> if the underlying material is authentic, it's definitely relevant, it's relevant whether

joe biden knew what he was doing, it's relevant if he didn't know what his son was doing. i have heard no one contest the authenticity of the underlying material. the media is supposed to provide oversight over politics and when twitter and facebook and these other platforms won't even let you propagate the information, yeah, the senate need to look into it. >> harris: kennedy? >> i'm going to sit back and document what's happening and what we're learning day-by-day and i'm still very curious why more news organizations aren't jumping on this and trying to verify some of these documents and some of these claims. if someone had dropped off my laptop and forged my signature and i had a picture of the signature and new it was fake, the first thing i would do is announce to the world it was fake and something had been stolen from me and that is a

very critical issue, and i know we're going to talk about that a little bit more in the show but i think as more of these details come out it's going to be more and more damning for hunter biden, and he's already said that he's not going to have any sort of foreign-borne entanglements if his dad is elected president but i think we need to hear more about his past before we discuss what might be happening in the future because some of those issues could be criminal. >> harris: jessica, you have many contacts and sources in the democratic party. you and i have talked for years. and i'm curious to get your take on what should be happening right now with the biden campaign and the story. i would like to just add this to the mix. that hunter biden interview that he did on "60 minutes" a few months ago. the one thing that seemed to be missing for me as somebody who is a lay person, certainly, when

it comes to politics but a journalist and have done it a quarter century, where was that line about "i love him, he's my dad, i know he said he did some things wrong," be specific, take responsibility at that time? how much would that have helped? why hasn't joe biden demanded that that happen? maybe he has. >> yeah, we talked extensively about that interview which i think everyone was affected by hunter biden, was extremely emotional, talking about his addiction and the support of his family and how meaningful that has been on his past and sobriety and moving past that phase of his life. i would have no problem with the biden campaign talking about this more explicitly. i think there is a very good reason even if the emails are authentic to say as a concerned father and parent, yes, i would meet with this guy, but i if he ever did meet with him. that's what we have heard from

those in joe biden's orbit during the administration that that meeting never took place. the accusation of if getting $3.5 million from the chinese, it's clear he did not get an infusion of cash from that level from the chinese. would love to hear on donald trump's side what his tax returns say. i'm more on transparency. it's not an election swing issue but if you come out and talk about a smear and don't talk about the emails, it's not going to change their vote but it would feel better if you said, listen, come on, my son was really struggling, i was kind to him and then i went and investigated the company he worked for with the backing of the i.m.f. and the entire western community. >> harris: it is interesting, katie, maybe a missed opportunity here by the biden camp, and i don't know if you can play catch-up this many months later but to have embraced the addiction going on

in the family. it's something so many millions of americans and their families are dealing with too, right? it might have been an illuminating or teaching moment. now, it's a scandal. >> now hunter biden's decisions are tied to potentially joe biden's decisions: it's not true that people have said that he did not meet with this member of the burris maboard, the ukrainian company. they said it was not on his official schedule then they changed the story to say that he may haveave met with him in passing. we're not clear about joe biden's role but we know that he does reference him, discussed with the media outlet that the only reason he was on the board in the first place was because his last name was biden and that begs the question were these really business dealings? hunter biden wasn't an expert in any of these fields that he was getting paid. he said i wouldn't have gotten in these positions if i wasn't a

biden. he's admitted to selling influence because his dad was vice president. in terms of how this affects the political atmosphere and politics, i think it does matter to people because when you have the populist outsider-insider, establishment versus nonestablishment feelings now in american culture, it's not just republican versus democrat any more, you have joe biden clearly an insider with his son selling access because his last name was biden getting paid exorbitant amounts of money from the ukrainian government and now we know there was contact with his father, the vice president about these deals and no transparency from the campaign about clarifying that these emails were authentic. people do care about corruption and the establishment and the elites in d.c. benefiting in ways that the american people do not. >> harris: all right. trey, i want to come back to you and ask you to prosecute the case for us. are we looking at a situation

where people are casing a crime? bottom line is from a legal standpoint. >> speaking of legal, voluntary intoxication is not a defense to any crime i have ever heard of. if he's an addict, i'm sorry about that but we still need to know who is the big guy and if a certain amount of money was set aside for the big guy and the fact that joe biden didn't include something on his tax returns doesn't mean he didn't accept it. i don't want to be cynical but lots of people who take bribes and other money don't include it on their tax returns. number one, lobbying registration, i think that would be what the bury is looking at. tax implications. i don't ever -- what the bureau is looking at. tax implications. sometimes silence is an admission. harris, if i were to accuse you of doing something and you didn't do it, in a courtroom you have a right to remain silent,

in the real world you better deny it. i don't hear joe biden denying the authenticity. i need to know who is the big guy. >> harris: the last word to you, jessica. >> i don't know who the big guy is but i would say to your earlier point, harris, about why more people aren't looking into this, we did have that. we had "the new york times" blow apart "the new york post" story, joe erickson of cbs saying he talked for a number of hours to the gentleman who worked in the repair shop who kept contradicting himself and stepping all over his story, we had "the washington post" looking into it and we have to be suspicious about any piece of phillip sims that could be damaging to an election coming out weeks before from rudy giuliani who we know that our own government has worried about has been targets by the russians for being a source of spreading information and rudy giuliani admitted he was going to go wherever he could to get this information out there, so i have questions too. i would love to know who the big guy is and all of that but i

don't think we're at the point where we should be making accusations of this level about joe biden, someone who has had a very clean 47-year record as a public servant. >> don't ignore it. let's find out who the big guy is. >> exactly. >> harris: following the facts is what we should be doing. i point to -- and you guys often hear me say this -- to missed opportunities. i do it equally with pretty much everybody around me and the missed opportunity of george stephanopoulos, which has been criticized as more a hug than a question, this hard topic didn't get broached and the only way you play well is when you practice well. biden is going into a fight now this next debate and he will not have practiced any of this and it might be really easy to trip him up especially if there is a

mute button because he can't pretend like he got interrupted. a new wrinkle from the presidential debate commission ahead of thursday's final face-off between president trump and joe biden. how will it work? what could it mean? the reaction from the biden campaign. i just talked about it. the president weighing in. >> the whole thing is crazy. this commission, i had problems with them four years ago where they stifled my mic during my conversation with crooked hillary. veterans, if you could lower your

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>> harris: the commission on presidential debates is announcing a new rule for the final showdown between president trump and joe biden, and it's happening just days ahead of

thursday night's debate. each of six debate segments will now begin with one candidate's microphone muted while the other gets two minutes of uninterrupted speaking time. open debate with no muting will follow each candidate's initial. the trump campaign criticized the change and the president this morning took the issue with the debate not focusing on foreign policy. >> this was supposed to be a foreign policy debate, and now all of a sudden we're talking about things that are not foreign policy, and frankly, it was a change that they made that was far bigger than the mute button, frankly, but they made a change and it shouldn't have happened. now we're talking about other things. not appropriate. >> harris: in fact, the commission has not publicly said the last debate would focus on foreign policy, only that

moderators would decide topics for each debate. the biden campaign press secretary said this, quote. >> harris: i bring this out to the panel now. katie. >> katie: i think the trump campaign should be pressuring that the rules continue to be changed without any consultation with their campaign or the biden campaign and there is a mute button for both of the candidates but i wonder if there is a mute button for the moderators as well considering that the moderators tend to get a little tangled with the candidates, but when it comes to the future of this and the republicans being frustrated with the way that the moderators and the debate commission has handled these debates, i think that the republicans have to demand that they have a moderator who is not just a

quote mainstream media journalist which 93% of them are democrats, by the way, according to the surveys, only 7% identify as republicans, they should demand that one debate be moderated by one from msnbc and one who has conservative, because it hinges on the idea of objectivity when you see the connections of moderators, steve scully reaching out to anthony scaramucci before the debate, that is not being objective in the middle of the road. that is taking a side. >> harris: kennedy, do we know why the debate moderator tonight killed her twitter page? would it have been in reaction to what happened with steve scully? just to take that out of the realm? is it something that every journalist should do? i'm serious about wanting to know your opinion about this because i consider myself just a

journalist. i'm not a hyphenated anything. maybe i'm not interesting enough to be that but killing your account -- by the way, twitter doesn't go away, kennedy. >> kennedy: what are you hiding? if you're shutting your account down. what happened to transparency? what is in those past tweets? or maybe she was hacked by steve scully's guy. it's a real problem here. in terms of the mute button, i understand that the time will be taken away if in fact one of the candidates interrupts the other and that was a weakness for the president in the first debate, so what happens if joe biden doesn't answer a question or he drones on and on and gets very boring? can his time be taken away later on? i think there needs to be a little bit of parity here. >> harris: i'm wondering, jessica, who is keeping the time? like, what's the time keeping -- are you comfortable with this? i mean, for either candidate, does this seem fair to cut into

free speech and just cut the mic? what do you think? >> jessica: i actually think that this unilaterally benefits president trump because he didn't do well in the first debate with interruptions. it was double the amount of vice president biden that did it. all of the polls taken after the debate said that he lost and that people found it really difficult to deal with that he kept interrupting, so in that sense this will keep him regulated to his allotted time. he also has been maintaining for quite some time that joe biden is suffering from dementia. can't make a coherent statement. that he will get lost in his own words. so now he gets his way, right? y woo will see joe biden untethered for two minutes straight and the american people will be able to decide if they think he has the cognitive abilities to execute the powers of being president of the united states of america, i don't see why president trump is doing that unless he likes to throw

his toys out of the proverbial pram. it was always going to be up to the moderator to decide what the topics were going to be and frankly the president should want tonight to be what's going on domestically because he has opportunities to she he's empathetic to the coronavirus and has a plan to get us out of the virus. i think he should be welcoming this decision. >> harris: i'm not sure how it works in all of those capitol hill hearings you were in, trey gowdy, but sometimes the best questions come in between the gaps. maybe the moderator is perfect. i wouldn't be perfect if i were moderating although i would love a shot at it but you want to be fair and sometimes you're listening and you are saying but wait a minute. that didn't get brought up. i'm with katie on this. either there is a mute button for everybody or there is not a mute button.

>> trey: i spent my entire podcast that came out this morning giving the president debate advice albeit unsolicited, there will be 70 million people watching which is 10 times whatever show he could go on. no one likes it when the rules are changed at the last minute and no one likes a biased referee but this is your last, best opportunity to persuade the most amount of people, and unless there is a rule against preparation, and i don't think there is, then you should be spending the next two days preparing to spend 75% of your time talking about what you have done and what you hope to do and then you can save your critique and your questions for joe biden for the very end. he has a magnificent opportunity thursday night, but i think he needs to perform differently from the way he did during the last debate. >> harris: all right. our special coverage of thursday's final debate between president trump and joe biden begins with bret baier and martha maccallum hostingab

in-depth preview before the candidates take the -- hosting an in-depth preview before the candidates take stage. >> harris: six days later the biden campaign has yet to deny a bombshell report about hunter biden's alleged emails and the questions they may raise about his overseas business dealings. do voters deserve an answer before they go to the polls? >> there are more questions now about joe biden and foreign policy, whether he's compromised by communist china that should be asked and answered. the mainstream media is in joe biden's corner. alright, i brought in ensure max protein

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count mail-in ballots it receives up to three days after election day. the u.s. justice department today has filed an antitrust lawsuit against google. and it's been in the works apparently for more than a year. it focuses on claims that google monopolizes internet search services and search advertising. google calls the lawsuit deeply flawed. and the world series opens tonight. mlb. with the smallest crowd in more than a century expected cue due to pandemic restrictions, the tampa bay rays face the los angeles dodgers in arlington, texas, the first neutral field world series since 1944. watch it all on the fox broadcast network. >> i know you would ask it. i have no response. it's another smear campaign. right up your alley. they're the questions you always ask. >> harris: that is about the extent of the comments joe biden

has made on reports claiming his son hunter biden made millions of dollars trading on his father's influence. neither he nor his son has denied the reports. "wall street journal"'s james freeman writes in his editorial. >> harris: meanwhile, the biden campaign has called a lid on any events until thursday night's debate meaning voters may have to wait until then to get more answers, which brings me to my point, trey gowdy, doesn't hurt to ask.

hope the moderator does -- or somebody. the title of his book, by the way, if you just tuned in. >> trey: yeah, that's the seminal question. are you the big guy? and that previous report highlighted the authenticity of the underlying emails. you have a right to remain silent but only because that right keeps you from incriminating yourself so the public is welcome to draw whatever conclusions they may want from joe biden's refusal to answer this question, most of us draw the conclusion that the answer would not be good for you, and that brings in the media. it is the media's responsibility to provide oversight in a noncriminal way, and yesterday i saw more stories about jeffrey toobin's zoom practices than i did the substance of the emails -- i hate to bring it up, but it's true -- i saw more stories about that than i did the substance of what's contained in those emails so if he's going to remain silent i'm going to draw

the inference that the answer would not be good for you, mr. vice president. >> harris: trying to get everything that you said after his name out of my mind. >> trey: good luck. >> harris: thanks. interest katie, it's interesting that joe biden hasn't learned this lesson from court packing. he didn't want to answer the question, and it blew up. because he wouldn't answer the question. and that was just last week's lesson on how not to answer a question. this week's new lesson on how not to answer a question has to do with his son, hunter biden. how is he doing? >> katie: it depends. looking at the other networks and the way this has not been covered, he's doing well, he doesn't feel like he has to answer the question because he's getting away with it when it comes to many members of the media refusing to cover it or giving into this idea that adam schiff said autorussian propaganda but the biden

campaign, joe biden himself and hunter biden have not denied the authenticity, and joe biden has been caught in a lie. he previously said he didn't know about his son's business dealings, was not involved and now there is alleged email evidence that they're not denying is true that he actually did know more than he let on and he doesn't want to answer questions about what he would do as president. there are questions about national security when it comes to using the vice presidency for influence peddling to allow your sob to sell your last name while you're in the second highest office in the land and again what joe biden would do if he were to become president of the united states. hunter biden said "i wouldn't be doing foreign deals any more" but there are questions about what was happening when he was in the number two position if he wants to apply for the job of number one. >> harris: kennedy, there have been questions about the trump children. through the years. the president has said he feld

felt like, and i'll paraphrase him now, that they have been targeting in some ways from the media. is this another missed opportunity by joe biden to maybe take a crack at that? it seems like everything is in bounds in politics these days so why not go there? he can't do that until he cleans up his own house. >> kennedy: yeah. absolutely. they're in crisis mode. the reason that he put a lid on it is not because he's doing more debate prep, it's because they have a real story here and they don't know the margins of it. they're not sure where it begins and where it ends and clearly hunter biden has not been straightforward with his father and his team and his dad hasn't been straightforward with us. even jessica admitted that his dad knew he was meeting with executives from this company and he knew that these executives wanted to meet with him. that's knowing something about your son's foreign entanglement. so that's one lie. the other thing is i don't know

why you wouldn't be able to answer a few questions if you're running for president because as we have seen in the last seven months alone look what happens in a single day. you can't put a lid on your day when the economy is melting down and americans are dying and you have issues with cyber spying overseas from places like china and russia and north korea. you're going to have to handle a lot, and joe biden is not showing that he can multitask without having emotional tantrums at members of the media who are asking pretty basic questions and i would say that the questions he's gotten so far have not been aggressive. what is interesting is the reaction he got from some of his fellow media members in the gaggle, they were aggressive toward him. they shouted him down. they were upset that he asked joe biden that. what has happened? what is the state of journalism now? >> harris: again, are you going to pack the court? it seems simple. we really don't know when we're

going to get an answer to that. he said maybe before the election. >> kennedy: hunter. >> harris: how little the big three networks covered the hunter biden scandal, kind of to kennedy's point, if you're going to look into it, you have to look into it, from wednesday to sunday afternoon. >> harris: jessica, you play like you practice. it actually will help joe biden if he practices answering these questions before 70-plus million people watch him answer it on thursday night. could be a bigger audience. that number could be small. >> jessica: it could be. last week's town halls didn't perform as well but they were separate. he could be practicing this very issue in debate prep. i know his campaign is obviously well aware of it and those

surrogates on the sunday morning circuit are aware and i don't have a doubt he will be prepared. from what kennedy said that these emails are alleged so if he did have email correspondence and said to his son i will meet with this guy even if it didn't end up happening, the emails would be authentic but we don't know if they're authentic yet. i have no objection to anyone covering a story if they're going to do it responsibly and the truth of the matter is that responsible coverage for this does not look good for the trump campaign. i have already talked about this guy who allegedly got the hard drive dropped off over a year ago but only got around to dealing with it, by the way, october right before a general election. we have "the new york times" that absolutely decimated "the new york post" and a long time post journalist who worked on the post story did not find it credible enough to attach his name to it, we know that one of the women who shared a byline

did not know until it went to print. "the washington post" has covered similar things and beau erickson who was schooled by joe biden talked to the guy who manages the repair shop and found him tripping all over himself. the truth is the american public are never going to believe that the bidens are an organized crime family. donald trump lashed out yesterday at a.p. reporter jeff mason, yelled at him that he was a criminal for not covering this. that pales, in comparison -- sorry, that is so much more extreme than what joe biden said to joe erickson to follow the facts on this but -- >> harris: exactly. we need to follow the facts. political rhetoric is going to sit where political rhetoric sits but if we as journalists are doing our job then no one will have to twist anybody's arm to believe anything because the facts will be out there. we'll move on. but you do have to answer questions in order for us to get to the facts is the point i am saying. only hours to go now before

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>> she's at 2.2. i would be willing to go more. she doesn't want to do anything until after the election because she thinks it helps her. i think it helps us because everyone knows that she's the one breaking up the deal. they are talking. let's see what happens. i would rather go bigger than her number. >> kennedy: the president's

willingness to gihigher than the house's 2.2 trillion dollar price tag puts him at odds with senate republicans who found the $1.8 trillion white house proposal a bit too rich. senate majority leader mcconnell has scheduled but it's not clear if the bills will pass. treasury secretary steve mnuchin are scheduled to begin negotiations a little more than two hours from now. trey gowdy, a couple of things going on here and it seems a strange way to negotiate when your opponent is high-balling you and you still want to go higher so who is going to prevail here? the president? nancy? or senate republicans? >> trey: i find it all very vexing. i don't understand the g.o.p.'s negotiating strategy. if the president wins, he has to have a senate g.o.p. if the president loses, the country has to have a senate

g.o.p. so why we are negotiating a bill that the senate is not going to take up, he's not going to let his vulnerable senators vote on that, let the senate pass what they're going to pass this week and put the pressure on the house. i do not understand the negotiations between mnuchin and pelosi. maybe i'm not smart enough to get it but you need a senate g.o.p. no matter what. let them drive the car. >> kennedy: harris, why not settle on the skinny bill, the $500 billion that would go toward pay check relief? deal with the greatest desperation now. go ahead. >> harris: i had senator chuck grassley of iowa on yesterday on "overtime" and he was saying what trey gowdy was saying, if you don't think that mnuchin and pelosi are going to get a deal together that the senate will pass, here is what they will

pass. they have billions of for testing. it's not that big one. it's a skinny version of that. i said does it help to have the president come? he said yeah, but it doesn't mean we're going to do what he wants. that's what he said. trey, it is as you tell it. the senate is going to do what it's going to do and people are waiting, and waiting, and waiting. >> kennedy: when are they going to get relief, jessica? how does this stalein mate end? >> jessica: hopefully it ends -- when does this stalemate end? >> jessica: hopefully it ends by midnight tonight. we see spikes in coronavirus cases in a number of states having to move us backward economically having to preserve people's health so i would be in favor of getting the skinny bill done to get the checks out there but if we pass the $2.2 trillion

or the $1.8 trillion, everybody winds, the american public is going to hold everybody's feet to the fire who did not make sure everybody was bailed out when they bailed out the auto industry in 2008, these people need it as much if not more than those people who got it in the past, it benefits everybody to pass this. >> kennedy: who doesn't win? my children don't win. they'll have to pay that bill and there could be so much corruption and we don't have the kind of safeguards that we need in order to make sure that greedy hands aren't reaching into this trough first because that could well happen. you have 10 seconds, katie. >> katie: 2.2 trillion is insane. 27 trillion in debt and there are other consequences to think about in terms of debt and where this money is going. >> kennedy: katie pavlic. the president's full campaign schedule versus joe biden's more

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campaigns. president trump campaigning hard this week crisscrossing arizona, pennsylvania and north carolina. joe biden taking a more cautious approach, holding one campaign event in north carolina over the weekend and with no scheduled stops this week. his campaign, however, is also warning against complacencey as he leads in the polls. campaign manager o'malley said to supporters, "the truth is that donald trump can still win this race and every indication we have is that this thing is going to come down to the wire." mr. gowdy. president trump is putting the work in. joe biden says he's preparing for the debate. seems like it would be hard to lose given all the work that's being put in. >> trey: i think biden feels like he's up. i think they think they're up a lot and when you're up a lot all you have to do is run out the clock. the president has one time out left. if this is the most consequential campaign in our country, the president should

prepare and perform accordingly. this is his last best chance to change the trajectory of this race. >> katie: the biden campaign strategy for months and months now but in places like pennsylvania joe biden is ahead by less than hillary clinton was in 2016 against donald trump. does that make you nervous? >> jessica: oh, i have been nervous since election night 2016 and i won't be until probably until a month after this election night when we finally get done counting the mail-in ballots, i was listening to o'malley, the campaign manager talk about it, she's right to tell democrats make sure you have a plan to vote early to galvanize people to get out there but she did say things like we're up in arizona so you're right to point out that things are tightening in a state like pennsylvania though he's up in michigan and wisconsin and still in the average in pennsylvania but we have new states open to us not typically

available to democrats to take like arizona. things looking good in georgia and north carolina. thom tillis is having a tough time there. there is a reason that donald trump is showing up in states like georgia close top the end of an election, a state that a republican should not be worried about losing so i'm totally fine with the biden approach and the voters know who he is, they know what he stands for and he has surrogates out all over the country. >> katie: president trump won in 2016 because he expanded the map, because he broke down the blue wall of pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan and he's campaigning in minnesota too. >> kennedy: just because happened doesn't mean it's going to happen. no one should take anything for granted. i would love joe biden's schedule. he has the schedule of a preschooler. he gets some hot cocoa, a story and a nap and then it's bed time thea 1:00 p.m. it's a wonderful life and it's

going to be a shock to him if he is elected because as i said earlier the presidency is very, very rigorous and we still don't know. everything in politics is weird. nothing is as predictable and as pat as we would like it to be so don't assume we know the outcome. a lot of people have voted but you have a lot of republicans who have registered so we still have no idea. >> katie: we have no idea. it's an unprecedented year. after 2016 and everyone saying hillary clinton was going to win, i'm not going to make predictions until election day. more "outnumbered" in a moment. attention veterans, today's all time low mortgage rates just dropped even lower. veterans who refi now can save three thousand dollars a year. with newday's va streamline refi, there's no income verification, no appraisal and no out of pocket costs. one call can save you $3000 a year. $3000! that's a big deal.

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investigate hunter biden's business dealings as joe biden remains off the campaign trail. i'm harris faulkner. fox news has obtained. >> reporter: containing some emails on his dealings with china, russia and ukraine p fox news has not verified the signature is in fact hunter biden. now at least 11 house republicans are calling on attorney general bill barr to appoint a special counsel