number, that could be the number of mail-in ballots up for grabs. >> dana: thank for joining us. i'm dana perino. see you in a couple hours on "the five." bill hemmer, you have your mask worked out? >> stand on by, dana. thanks. nice to see you. >> bill: thursday, day 2 without a winner after election night 2020. i'm bill hemmer. the moment we're waiting to here from georgia secretary of state. we'll take you to atlanta when that begins. stand by. the outcome hanging on the final four battleground states. still too tight to make a call. joe biden is half a dozen electoral votes away. there's been a few changes in the tally but nothing yet to make a call. the trump campaign mounting new legal challenges aimed at stopping the vote count in the key battleground. both sides claiming their

candidate will win when this is said and done. brett and martha have analysis. jonathan hunt in las vegas and john roberts is at the white house. first, we want to go to the board. show you where we are. 3:00 on the east coast. the what-if calendar is something that we've been watching now. how do you get to 270. at the moment, we mentioned half a dozen votes hanging out here in nevada. joe biden at 264. if that were to clock in, he would be at 270 barring changes in other states. nevada is not going to report anymore ballots until tomorrow. stand by for more on that. meantime, here's what the white house is looking at. hanging on to a razor tight may gin in georgia. more breathing room in north carolina as of now. pennsylvania is super tight. alaska, we believe will break their way, although we have not made a call. i'll show you the senate race there in alaska as well. that would bring him to 268. nevada, if it clicks in, would

give him 274 and a second term in the white house. the balance of power in the u.s. senate is very interesting now. we look at this. tends to be overshadowed right now when you figure out who will spill up the spot at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. at 48-48. a 2-1 lead for dan skull vin over his democratic challenger. we believe that will be safely in republican hands. in north carolina, tom tillis the edge in north carolina. that would be a hold for republicans also. two races down here in georgia. one is going to a run-off. this one is just barely hanging on. david purdue needs this percentage, 50.0% to avoid a run-off the first week of january. if he does, he will head into the weekend with republicans with a 51 vote margin in the u.s. senate. that's where we are right now. let's get to the white house and

get the news with john roberts this hour. that is where we begin with you, john. good afternoon. >> good afternoon to you, bill. a big set-back for the trump campaign. not a big one but a setback for the trump campaign in the legal front. they had challenged a ballot counting in the state of georgia after a poll observer said 53 ball lots in chatham had come in after the 7:00 p.m. headline that had been counted. that was thrown out by a judge that said there was no evidence to show that the ballots were received after the 7:00 p.m. deadline in georgia. one defeat for the trump campaign. plenty of legal action toing on across the country. the trump campaign buoyed by a judge's order that would allow republican observers within six feet of counters, only to be found that wouldn't be let that close to the counters. here's pam bondi and corey

lewendowski. >> they took away the ballot machine. the legal vote must be tabulated. they're not doing that. >> the sheriff won't enforce a court order. what are you hiding? open up the doors. let us in. let us six feet away so we can have a free and fair election. >> on to nevada which was the target of the president's ire when the governor decided he would mass mail-out ballots to everybody. the campaign filing a lawsuit insisting there's 10,000 votes that were cast by people that do not meet the 30-day residency requirement in nevada. also charging that ballots were submitted in the names of people no longer living. here's rick granel in las vegas. >> we're filing this falawsuit

protect legal voters. it's unlawful to have illegal votes counted. that is what is happening in the state of nevada. >> as to the state of play and how the trump campaign is feeling, they held a press conference -- a conference call earlier this afternoon. they believe they will still win in the state of arizona. they believe as more results come in in maricopa county, which are antithetical, but they think they're going to do well in the votes remaining to be counted that the margins will continue to narrow. the president is still 68,000 votes away but gained 11,000 votes in the last tranche that came in. they believe that they will hang on to georgia. the president is only separated from joe biden by 13 points right now. so that is something that is giving them heartburn. on to pennsylvania. there's been a subtle shift in tone in the campaign. yesterday saying they were

absolutely confident, bill steppian, the campaign manager saying we're declaring victory in pennsylvania. today senior adviser jason miller says they continue to have strong confidence and the president is "going to win." a subtle shift there. 369,000 outstanding votes according to the secretary of state. but the president is ahead by 108,000 votes. four of those counties have the biggest vote totals outstanding and they are democratic counties. big for joe biden. so we'll see how that goes. >> thank you. breaking news out of atlanta. we're waiting on the secretary of state. now we're getting a bit of a vote tally and what is happening in the peach state. >> one town here at the bottom, taylor, 456. i'm going to give you where we stand in the situations behind

these numbers. we'll start at the top. notice several counties have dropped off as they have completed their uploads, the ballots that they had in hand. chatham county is currently scanning. i know they're working. we have an investigator there to keep an eye on things. at some point, one of you will ask me what happened down there. i need to answer with first-hand accounts from our people. that's what's happening there. clayton county, we talked to them this morning and after lunch, they're continuing to work. they continue to scan and make uploads. notice the total has dropped. cobb county continuing to finish up their ballots there. floyd, i don't have a clear answer on the 682 just yet. forsyth, they're working to get through. they're on the side of being accurate than fast in some ways, which is very good. she's a diligent director. fulton continues to draw down their number. they have 7,305.

again, with the work of our monitor in there, we're keeping a close eye on that number. there were 1,200 ballots in the second stage of signature match that were brought over today. they're inside that total. one other item from fulton county, 3,900 provisionals. i don't know the coding. as you may or may not know, there has to be action done by the voter or an automatic acceptance of them pending coding. i don't have that detail. gwinnett is down to 4, 800. we had discussions with them about why they had the 7,700 out there. part of that is a scanning differential between the accepted ballots and those were reported. the actual totals are 4,400 of the absentee ballots to scan and report. they had an issue asked about this morning. they had a corrupt memory card on one of the early voting icps,

the polling place scanners. they discovered that. they took the ballots from that. they rescanned those. those included the totals with 4,400 votes and included in the 4800. that is one of the benefits of having a paper backup. those situations occur, you can take care of those. harris is continuing to work. laurens county, we talked to them this afternoon. they are trying to figure out where the batch is for the 797. they thought they uploaded and have not. taylor had a unique issue. they did their absentee ballot printing in house. something along the way made the ballots not be appropriate size. so if you have a ballot that is based on coordinates, and it's not the right size, it cannot be scanned. so they're going through the process of duplicating them and then what they have to do is

take the original ballot and duplicate and match them to keep a paper trial alive. they will take those ballots and 456 of them and run them through the scanner. they're a little over halfway through that process right now. you can imagine, it's an arduous process and make sure you get the ballot reflecting exactly what the intended vote of the voter was. so again, it's a total of 47,277. on another note following up with another question that was asked earlier today, we have -- this is included in the counts that we have right now. 17,529 military ballots. as i noted earlier, under the federal laws, the ballots post marked by tuesday can be accepted up to friday. of the pool of those, there's

8,899. that doesn't mean that any of them will arrive or all could arrive. we have no way of knowing. not that 8,900 will be counted. those could arrive to be counted. and any subset thereof. with that, i'll answer any questions you have. >> can you tell us how long you think it will take for the count? >> let's see. first of all, i'm not the secretary. statewide voting implementation manager. >> how long do you think it will take? >> again, as we have been stating for weeks and months, with the advent of paper, it will take time. we anticipate having to count done when the legal certification is, which is ten days after the election. that's when we're done. there's ballots still coming in and ballots that will be verified. we can't know how long the process will take. we hope to have clarity on the outcomes as soon as possible.

when you have so many important ballots being done so close, we're trying to get all the legal votes counted accurately so we can get the right results and make sure everybody's vote is reflected properly. >> what is your message to people around the state and around the country who claim the amount of time is taking georgia, some sort of effort to steal an election? >> the effort here is to make sure every legal vote is counted properly and the actual results are reflective of the intent. it's a close vote. there's other states that have more votes to count than we do but it's a wide margin. but nobody cares. this is the first time we used paper ballots in 20 years. the secretary stood where i'm standing and said this will take more times. we have to be diligent and make sure we do everything right. yes, sir.

>> [question inaudible] >> under the law in the state, there's two ways to request a recount. you can request it before certification to make sure. that would be a county by county function. we don't see a mechanism in place to call for a statewide recount under that scenario. the second way, it would have to be after certification. whether that is county certification or state certification, it would be after the state certification. at that point one of the good things we had happening today is we have been setting up for the risk-limiting audit. in doing that, we have ballot manifests where we know the amount of ballots for each one and they're tracked. we know how many there are. the rule we've asked to help define the recount after we had hb 316, which is the election

reform law, was that essentially you would take a sample amount of ballots, run them through the scanner, make sure it matched what we saw and rescan the ballots on central scanners called the icc at each county. in anticipation of this as i noted in our conference er -- conference earlier, we secured the high speed scanners for each county for just such as an occasion as this. john? >> [question inaudible] >> we anticipate most recounts don't make a difference. the cost, unknowable and unknown after this point. i can't give you an answer. we have already procured the necessary equipment statewide for such an occasion. how long it's going to take? it will be faster than what we saw in chatham county where a

judge decided to order a hand count of the ballots we had. took five days to do 5,000 ballots. in this case using technology, it could take up to a week. that is our first blush look at it. we were talking with logistics companies earlier about making sure we had processes in place with the counties but would have to be after the certification. >> [question inaudible] >> no, the counties certified by november 13. the states by november 20th. >> in that process, do you anticipate sooner than later? i know you can't definitely say a time frame. what is your best guess? by monday, this weekend? >> here's the issue. we're reliant on the counties to do their jobs and do them properly. we had a conference call with our elections director laying out the timeline. saying the sooner you get it to

us, the sooner we can get your certifications down, the sooner we get the audit down so we can get that out of the way. we need to understand a few things about the election directors i talked about before. we have the potential mistake of having a state level election in the psc. that means there's one december 10. that means they have to prepare for that. under our state law, they have a roll-over list and they have to get the absentee ballots for 700,000 people now. the state is not doing that if there's a state run-off. there's three counties that have the congressional district 5 run-off election. early voting begins monday for that. so they'll be running those elections. the same time, be preparing for the audit and the certification and the recount. now looks like we have to have a run-off for the purdue seat along with the loefler seat.

so 700,000 ballots we have to prepare for. we have to make sure there's inventories. we encourage the counties to go through their inventories. so obviously, john, a lot of things happening at one time. these elections directors will have a very good sleep after january 15th. >> do you have any numbers on ballots coming in from counties at this point? >> we don't have the numbers on them. they have until tomorrow to cure those ballots. stephen? >> the absentee ballots, can you explain the process for them that takes so long? why does it take so long to process an absentee ballot? >> one of the issues you have, first, absentee ballots were

allowed to be submitted legally by 7:00 p.m. tuesday. so everybody is running the election tuesday. you get to wednesday. then signature verification to assure that ballot goes to the person that requested it. we want to make sure the human being that signed it sent it. so then they get scanned. when they get scanned, if there's an overvote or ambiguous mark, you have to sort that out. takes time. yes, sir. >> [question inaudible] >> let me explain the different of outstanding means. i mean outstanding from the at the time vote totals. i noticed before if you go to

the savannah morning news, they have a good split, which slows the process down. they batch them differently. that takes more time. that's one of the reasons that -- that's why we make sure there's no issues down there. yes, sir. >> will every vote be counted? are there any ballots that are illegal? >> first of all, the secretary of state's office doesn't make those distinctions. they're made by county level. any ballot that came in late after 7:00 p.m., it's not it's illegal but no longer to be counted but came in too late under the law. we'll have an inventory of those after the election. >> when you do -- >> hold on. >> bill: here we are in georgia now. you can tell this thing continues to get protected like this. you heard the one phrase. it would take a week to do a recount in the state of georgia. here's the action on the map

behind us here. atlanta is up in here. this is savannah down here. mentioned chatham county a couple times there. they have a fair amount of votes in chatham county. it's a democratic county. whether or not the margins are the same in 2020 and whether they continue to come in in a certain rate is something that we'll wait to see. he mentioned floyd county, this is where rome, georgia is. part of the president's argument during his campaign, he went to this county. there was an enormous crowd that turned out in the northern part of georgia. here's atlanta. any time you talk about georgia, you have to talk about fulton county. clearly a democratic city. joe biden has a fair amount of votes there. maybe about 7,000 outstanding still to be tabulated. in the end, at the moment anyway, .2 points separate trump and biden, a different of less than 13,000 votes. that has shrunk since earlier today. i came on with bret and martha.

they join me. bret, your home state so to speak in georgia. what do you take from what we heard there? >> they're getting close. all of these votes eventually are going to get to a point that it is a very close election. think about where this state has been. you think about how many times the campaigns went down there, both the biden campaign and the trump campaign. this is why. because you're coming down to almost a 50/50 split here on the the vote. then you add to that, the complexity of the senate races. one going to a run-off. the other literally 3,600 votes away from either being a victory for the republicans or being another run-off january where it could be the balance of power in the u.s. senate. >> great point. as you watch this, martha, we've got joe biden half a dozen electoral votes away from taking this thing at the moment. >> we sure do. the president needs 56 electoral

votes to get to 270. joe biden needs 6. if you had up everything on the right-hand column, you get to 57 electoral votes that are still outstanding here. the president needs to sweep these remaining states. he also is putting forth a strong argument that arizona should be reevaluated as well, which would give them one more path. when you listen to what's going on, i have to give credit to the gentleman that we were just hearing from. he's in charge of the voting commission in georgia. they have their work cut out for them. they have this very contention senate race that bret mentioned. they have deadlines that they have to hit. november 13 and then november 20th to certify the counties and certify the state. he talks about the fact, the evaluation of a questionable vote. you know, it wasn't filled out right. they have a democratic right field and a republican

representative sit together and decide whether or not that vote is legal. so there's just painstaking work that is being done here. very thin margins in a couple states. you know, this is going to be vote by vote, bill. >> bill: one thing we can't say, when it ends. we can agree on that. i'll give you an example. this is in north carolina. president has a lead of about two points, we'd say. less than two points. 76,000 votes. i can tell you guy, there's are 40,000 be estimate provisional ballots cast in north carolina. they won't be looked at until after november 13. could that be important? the margin, the difference could if it shrinks more. if that -- among provisional ballots. they're ineligible. maybe the signature doesn't match up or registered to vote in the first place.

our estimates suggest up to 30,000, 40,000 could be tossed. if you're dealing with a close margin like the tarheel state, 40,000 votes that haven't been looked at yet, it could easily punt itself past the 13th of november. >> definitely. that could happen in a number of states. you and i were in tallahassee, florida in 2000. provisional ballots, military ballots. it all starts to factor in the you're within a narrow enough margin that it can make a difference. that is where some of these legal challenges could potentially delay things as well. as you look at the actual paper ballots that have been already counted. then they challenge whether the signature matches, whether it was handled properly. you're looking at days here. and then each state will come to a point where they have to certify the vote. in some of those states, you have a secretary of state who is

a democrat and a legislature that is republican. that's going to create another problem. >> bill: sometimes these stories tend to go for a period of time. other times they tend to come to a crashing end and have a conclusion. do either of you get a sense that this could come to the latter and you get a crashing end to a conclusion? >> pennsylvania. >> i agree. it's not that difficult to see either scenario. i wish i had a definitive answer. things will unravel quickly and we'll have an answer or else -- >> bill: even if you get an answer in pennsylvania, you have the legal challenges out there. would you certify -- >> it has to be huge. the numbers have to be as we were talking to andy mccarthy this morning, he said there's a number of levels to this. you can dispute individual votes, the question of whether or not you're being given enough

opportunity to observe and the transparency. but he said in the end, in order to really push this, you have to prove that pushing it could potentially change the outcome of the election. so the number of votes have to be at stake, that it is nudgeable by anyone of these issues. >> bill, the side of the screen, on the screen now are the vote differentials. that is the -- those are the numbers that we need to be looking at. if it's small enough in georgia, in nevada, you can argue north carolina, although it seems like it's heading the trump way. pennsylvania is closing and it depends on where the vote comes in from. that is the number that -- whether the legal challenges make their way or don't. >> bill: thanks to both of you. stabbed by. i have ken starr in a moment. see you later today. ken starr joining this conversation. we're talking about pennsylvania. i was looking at butts county. it's a bellweather.

you can see how close it is for comparison's sake. four years ago, that's where we were. the reason i brought this up, this was red until today. now we move to the legal challenges that we were just discussing. what do you believe at the moment is the most salient point to make when you get a gauge of the lawsuits that have been filed in these various states? what should we focus on? >> the key question is, in these states, are the rules being followed. pennsylvania has raised some serious questions about transparency. so we had judicial ruling. you've got to allow these observers to do as we heard about georgia so they can actually see what is going on. we call it transparency, checks and balances. the earlier comments are very salient. including what andy mccarthy has been reminding us of, which is

you need real closeness. because there may be improprieties. and they nonetheless need to be shown to make a difference. philadelphia has a terrible record. i've said this before. it needs to be said again. philadelphia has a terrible record in terms of the integrity of the elections. it's troubling that in that very important state we do not have the kinds of obedience to apparently judicial orders. here's a judge saying allow them in. apparently all that happened was just another complication. that strikes me on the outside as bad faith. it's failure to comply. so i think the trump organization, the trump campaign is doing what they need to do. go in -- >> bill: how do you rectify the issues that you're just describing for us, ken? >> you go back to the judge. you say, judge, it's time for you to issue another order

enforceable by the contempt power. that gets people's attention. >> bill: that is pennsylvania, philadelphia. you're saying there's a track record there. what about michigan and et cetera? is there something that could be relevant in the end? >> yeah. michigan is very important in terms of did in fact the law of the state -- this is so critical under the constitution. i hope everybody learned that by now. a governor cannot step in lawfully and override the law of the state and neither can a state supreme court. so let's watch that. is there in that litigation an allegation, not just there's some impropriety but a violation of state law. why do i mention that? that is the point to keep an eye on in terms of the supreme court. voting irregularities, fraud here, fraud there, that won't attract the attention of the supreme court. it's got to be the law was not

followed. the law is passed by the legislature, not by the governor. >> bill: thank you, ken. check back in later in the week. thanks. have a lot more to get to this hour. track of the race of 270. more on that in a moment with an all-star cast as we roll along.

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we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa >> bill: half passed the hour here. they're still not calling a winner in the four battleground states. the trump campaign launching legal challenges in some states. team biden calling them meritless. chris stirewalt on why we can't make a call. jonathan hunt reports in nevada and jacqui heinrich is with the biden team. >> the biden campaign is urging people to be patient.

they say they saw these moves coming a mile away. back in september they expanded on an existing legal team of hundreds of lawyers across the country that they set up to prepare themselves against what they saw at that point even as the president's efforts to suppress the vote, to sow disinformation about mail-in voting and sow distrust in the process. the biden lawyers committee is headed up by former obama white house counselors and two that are both supreme court and appellate court advocates. each serving as the fourth highest ranking officials at the department of justice. eric holder is also part of that effort. now, on a press call this morning, the campaign said team trump is making an effort to make a cloud of confusion that might be effective with the public but in court they're litigating issues that have

already been litigated and getting desperate. >> i want to emphasize for their purposes, these lawsuits don't have to have merit. that's not the purpose. it's not to bring bona fide claims before the courts. it's to create an opportunity for them to message falsely about what is taking place in the electoral process. >> now, in terms of the vote, they are still confident joe biden will hit 270 maybe today or tomorrow. and not to get scared if the president make gains as the totals trickle in. >> don't be surprised if we bounce a small margin to begin with. we should see ups and downs depending on the order of the results coming in. at the end of the day, we're confident we'll be ahead in nevada. >> they say the gap is closing in pennsylvania. they're also still confident

about arizona and nevada, bill. >> bill: thank you. what is happening in nevada? jonathan hunt is live in las vegas now. jonathan? >> good afternoon, bill. two major story lines coming out of nevada. numbers and lawsuits. the numbers first. at this point 24 hours ago, former vice president joe biden was leading president trump by just around 8,000 votes. at this point now, he's leading president trump by just under 2 12,000. so a net gain of 4,000. what gives the biden campaign the most optimism here is the majority of outstanding votes are coming here in clark county. that is because clark county is home to 73% of all registered voters in nevada. the biden campaign believes that he as a candidate is particularly strong here in clark county. we expect something like another

51,000 votes to be tabulated through the rest of today here and announced at around noon eastern tomorrow, bill. so that is the number at the moment. former vice president biden more cause for optimism than president trump. so that may be why we saw this trump lawsuit today. you heard john roberts explain it. the trump campaign is alleging that dead people have voted and those votes are being counted. they're alleging that thousands of nonresidents have voted and those votes are being counted. they're complaining about the lack of transparency. they cannot check signatures. they offered scanned evidence for any of those claims, frankly, bill, in a rather bizarre press conference here where the former act being director of national intelligence refused to take any questions and lectured the media. you are here to take in information.

well, as you know, bill, we're here to take in information. we're also here to ask those that make claims that pose questions about our democracy to add evidence to those claims. ric grenell declined to do that. bill? >> bill: jonathan hunt, more to come from there. thank you. what's the hold-up you ask, huh? that's complicated. chris stirewalt, how are you doing, sir? >> living the dream, brother. >> bill: you can throw a dart. looking at four or five different states. why can't we make a call? >> that's not to say we won't. right now we're not ready to call anything. things are really cooking. >> bill: how so? >> we have vote ripening. all of this vote flowing in in pennsylvania. we heard what is going on in georgia. sounds like nevada is done for the evening. i mean, my gosh, when you look

there. north carolina is creeping. they're just -- they're going so slow, they might be stopping for barbecue sandwiches. certainly in georgia, certainly in pennsylvania, you have all of this vote out and you have things moving. we're getting to an exciting phase here. >> bill: if that is the way you see it breaking -- i don't know if you heard my conversation with bret and martha, sometimes it goes on and on and other times it comes to an end and quickly and sometimes unforeseen. given the legal challenges out there perhaps in these battleground states, even if it does start to tighten, what would the margin have to be to avoid a protracted legal battle here? >> when it comes to what we do. we're not the law or elections officials. we're forecasters. we're the weather man. we can tell you where the storm is going, but we cannot insure you're roof. legal matters are for the

courts. other always present in every presidential election. there's filings and lawsuits. we get it a different way in way the trump campaign does it and because it's spread out over days. we've gone from having an election day to having an election week because of coronavirus. so we're doing it in slow-mo. but if you think about previous election years, of course stuff gets filed. that's what you do. you have to make your claim, this is like hold on just in case. just in case it might help me later. >> bill: we're on stand by. stop by and see you later. "new york post" offers this today on the cover. no matter who wins, the polls, the press, the pundits were all wrong, wrong, wrong. frank luntz is one of those pollsters. good afternoon to you. how did they miss it? how did you miss it? >> all i did with you guys is the focus groups. i didn't do any polling. i'm blessed that fox news has

their own pollsters and we did focus groups. for once it worked out well. they missed it because trump voters don't like participating in surveys. they think that the information is going to be used against them, they think it's part of the swamp and part of cnn or the times. the only time that they'll participate if they know they're having an impact. they know the people in washington are listening to them. rather than ignoring them or forgetting them. so its really hard to do accurate polling. you have a segment of the population that refuses to participate. good for them. they have the right to know they're being heard. >> bill: you sent out this tweet before the race. if pollsters get it wrong, it's the end of public polling and politics. you stand by that, frank? >> absolutely. "the washington post" got

wisconsin wrong by 16 points. cnn, your competitor network, declared last weekend that joe biden was going to win by 12 points. looks like he will get a 3.5% advantage over donald trump when the votes are counted. the published polls -- the public polls and the press has never been as wrong as it was this time. they should have none better because they got it wrong four years ago. >> thank you, frank. frank luntz with a lot of evaluations. you'd agree with that. nice to see you. in a moment here, the balance of power in congress. what is the effect of a divided washington? the markets are reacting. we'll get insight on that as we continue coming up on 4:00 now on the east coast. whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches!

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>> bill: the top of the hour. we showed you the battle of power in the senate and how that could shape up. 48-48 at the moment. the three states in gold are undecided. this is dan sullivan's race in alaska. 2-1 lead has not been called. the republican would hold that seat. in north carolina, tom tillis had one of the most talked about re-election campaigns in the state. he leads kyle cunningham by two points. that race has not been called. tillis is in a good spot. this is georgia. the one to watch. this could -- this race could determine in the near term the balance of power in the u.s. congress. david purdue has to hang on to 50.0% for the republican to keep his seat. if he doesn't do that, he will have a run-off in january. the second senate race here in georgia has been called. so they will have a run-off in georgia for that seat.

so as it stands today, you have a divided washington. alisa slotkin just won in virginia. good afternoon to you. >> michigan. state of michigan. >> what did i say? >> virginia. >> bill: sorry about that. i would never make that mistake again and you'll beat them in football every time. how do you fend off the movement of the far left in the democratic house? do you think? you're pretty center left. how do you do that? >> yeah, i mean, listen, i think the results of the election as we're seeing them is that people want practical reasonable policies that make their life better. right? i think if we focus on that -- it's fine to have big, bold ideas and enter that in the arena but we have to affect people's pocket books or their kids or we won't earn their vote. so that's what i'm focused on and that's what the majority of democrats are focused on. regardless of what the media

focuses on and that's what we're going to do. >> bill: how do you -- i guess the question is, how do you fend them off? how do you fight back? how do you resist? >> it's not very hard. we have the numbers. right? we're literally just on a caucus call 15, 20 minutes against. the numbers are with us who tend to be in that pragmatic middle. again, while the focus may be on three or four, i don't have to fend myself often from three or four or five members of congress when there's a bigger group of us that, you know, cue to the pragmatism in the middle. >> bill: have you had time to stop about think about what the this election has taught us? like your home state of michigan. >> the answer is no, i haven't had enough total time. i think -- listen, the fact that i got re-elected in a district that is -- it was drawn to be republican, i think shows that people were willing to come out

in droves and they had a lot of passion and for some places like michigan, we'll vote the person over the party. that's what we saw. my district really swung in who they supported for president between 2016 and 2020. i think that that is an encouraging sign. but i think the most important thing that i take away is that we need to heal. we just can't keep doing politics like this. i refuse to believe this is how we have to do politics from now on. >> bill: could be difficult regardless of how this turns out, don't you think? -perhaps it's more difficult based on the results we're seeing. >> may be difficult but i refuse to accept it. that's the way it has to be. for me, in a place like michigan, our neighbors have different political views. my inlaws have different political views and i refuse to believe that we have to disagree with toxic anger. i'm not going to sit down and accept that, no.

>> bill: thanks forks your time today. we'll talk soon from michigan. thank you. something is moving in the stock market. we've seen another day of pretty big gains. up more than 500 points now as we move to the close. we'll have more on that shortly. another word of a trump campaign news conference in phoenix, arizona. so stand by. we're setting up the cameras out there. we await that. we'll have it. our thursday team is on for the first time since we have spoken to them since a week ago. certainly since the election. geraldo and leo on what this election has taught us coming back.

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>> bill: we mentioned about the press conference if georgia. the trump team says they will have a statement in phoenix in moments. stand by for that. fox news has made the call the other night on arizona. we'll see what the message is

there. we should get a dump at 9:00 eastern time from the southwest. so want to bring in geraldo. leo terrell, civil rights attorney. gentleman, good day to you. a couple minutes here. geraldo, you're an animal for this political stuff. i mean that affectionally. the hispanic vote for the president and the increase in african americans, what do you think about what this selection may be telling us about the republican party? >> i would love the president to gesture to the hispanic vote, give the dreamer as pathway to citizenship right now. why? in florida, it's the latino vote that delivered the big sunshine state to the president. in texas, it is again, the latino vote. not just in the big cities but along the rio grande valley.

it's the place where the republican party will grow in the future. should be absolute outreach. spanishs, the largest minority in the country. 17%. they are by nature socially conservative family oriented. they go to church, they're perfect republicans, bill. >> bill: perfect republicans. leo, what do you think about the margins with the president captures for african americans at a greater rate that we've seen? >> i'm very glad about it. donald trump has redefined the republican party, bill. for people accusing donald trump of being racist, i have news for you. people of color voted in greater numbers for donald trump. 68 million people. that was followed by people of color. black men. hispanics. all of that. that tells you something that the democratic playbook is dead. the democratic party can no longer claim that the people of color are going to vote for them. the republican party is the party for all americans. donald trump has proven that.

that is what made him something different than any other republican president ever before, bill. >> bill: you think, leo, about how hard he campaigned for the african american vote. >> he got me over there. he got me. i tell you, it's a difference. >> bill: why? >> because i'll tell you why. platinum plan, economic relief. first step act. you have a democratic man named joe biden for 47 years and i challenge anyone watching your program to name one thing that he has done for black americans. zero. >> bill: geraldo, what do you think about the case of leo? >> impeach the polsters. they pornographiers. they don't go into the spanish neighborhoods. they never ask the latino men which way they were going to vote. that's why you have the u.s. veer undercount. i think that whole industry is bankrupt, bill. it's shameful what they did and suppressed the vote as a result.

>> thank you, geraldo and leo. on stand by for the trump event in phoenix. take you there when it happens. maybe we get a joe biden comment today. stand by for all that. we'll bring it to you. meantime, roll on. >> count every vote! >> neil: the protests continue on both sides of the aisle and all across this country. and through all of this, while it may be deemed by sunday to be a sign the country is falling apart, at the corner of wall and broad, buying and buying. never mind we still are not closer to some sort of conclusion on this presidential race, buyers were racing to set another triple digit advance on the dow jones industrials that is four in a row such advances this week on what is already likely to be not only a historic week for politics,ut