this sunday, december 6th, 2020. i'm molly line in for jon scott. up next, gop senator kelly loeffler will face off against democrat raphael warnock in tonight's georgia senate runoff debate. martha maccallum takes it from here. martha. martha: thank you, novelly. good -- molly. good evening, everybody. it all comes down to this. >> the future of our country is on the ballot right here in georgia. >> the stakes could not possibly be higher exactly one month before georgia's two u.s. senate runoffs. >> this is our moment, and georgia's on everybody's mind. martha: deciding whether republicans or democrats will control the united states senate for the next two years. >> now we take georgia, then we change america! martha: moments from now, georgia senator kelly loeffler, a republican, squares off with her challenger, reverend raphael warnock, a democrat. >> he has espouse add radical views from the pulpit. >> they are trying to divide us.

martha: tonight's matchup likely the only time they will share a stage before the january 5th election -- >> the momentum is with us. the other side knows it, they're running scared, and they should be. >> he's someone that attacked our police officers, calling them gangsters, thugs, bullies and a threat to our children. martha: our big debate coverage starts right now. ♪ ♪ martha: good evening, everybody. welcome to our special coverage of the georgia senate runoffs, the battle for america in a big way. i'm martha maccallum, we're just moments away from republican senator kelly loeffler and democrat challenger raphael warnock taking the debate stage live in atlanta tonight. now, this is the match-up of one of two georgia runoff races on january the 5th. they will decide control of the united states senate. right now the balance of power is 50 republicans and 48

democrats. a win in one or two of the races would put republicans in command over the biden agenda. but a loss of both would give democrats a tie in the senate and then the incoming vice president, kamala harris, could be in the position to break ties for any policy change or appointment of judges or cabinet positions. the list goes on. so we start tonight with jonathan serrie live in atlanta with the a lay of the land for tonight. very big debate. hi, jonathan. >> reporter: i'll try to give you a layout. tonight's debate will be moderated by russ spencer, one of the anchors at atlanta's fox 5 news, wata. the candidates will take questions from a panel of two journalists, lisa ram, wab e, and doug bluesteven with the "atlanta journal-constitution". the debate will begin with opening statements from republican senator cel arely leffler who spent her business

career in finance and was awe pointed late last year to fill the seat of johnny isakson who retired for health reasons. today will also give opening statements from democratic challenger raphael warnock, a pastor at atlanta's ebeneezer baptist church, the historic faith home of dr. martin luther king jr. now, opening statements will be followed by three rounds of questioning. in rounds one and three, the questions will come from the panel of journalists, but in round two in the middle, the canvass will be allowed to ask each other questions. and what i've seen -- candidates will be allowed to ask each other questions. earlier this evening democratic challenge or jon ossoff was the only candidate to attend the debate for georgia's other u.s. senate seat. republican senator david perdue opted out and was represented at that debate by an empty podium as ossoff fielded questions and

made statements a alone. >> if we don't win these two senate races, they're going to try to do to the biden/harris administration exactly what they tried to do to president barack obama. it will be gridlock. government shutdowns. bitter partisanship. obstructionism as far as the eye can see. people need help now. >> reporter: at the end of the debate, the perdue campaign e-mailed a statement saying that, claiming that ossoff lost the debate against himself. martha? martha: jonathan, thank you very much. jonathan serrie live tonight in atlanta. joining me now, republican congressman doug collins of georgia. he was in this race at one point. congressman, good to see you, thank you for being here. >> no problem. good to be here. martha: good to see you too. so, obviously, you support kelly loeffler, the republican candidate, in this. what do you think she e has to accomplish tonight? >> ve she just has to make sure

that she presents the contrast. there's a contrast and a conservative vision for this government continuing on helping our economy, making sure our military's strong. and, again, this is a georgia seat although it's a national implication, this is about our military bases here in georgia with raphael warnock has not stood with our military. it's about taking a stand for our military and police. i do have to say one thing, you talked about ossoff saying the republicans wanted bitter partisanship. i'm not sure what planet he's on, but that's all we've seen from the democrats over the last two years. and if that's what he's talking about, then we don't need liberal leftists in congress, we need to stay in control so we can help our country. that's what this is about tonight, and kelly loeffler needs to make that distinction cheer between her and raphael warnock. martha: what about david perdue, the incumbent senator, who chose not to debate? they debated twice in the prior

race that led to this runoff, and perdue won by 85,000 votes in that race. in most states, that would make him the senator of the next term as well. but there's the empty podium. did this hurt him at all? >> no, i don't think it does. look, he's debated jon before. you know, these debates, he has had his chance, and instead of using it to talk about his, you know, his views, he chose to lie about david perdue. look, if jon ossoff wants to lie about things, he can do it and get pa paid for it. they've already had their debate, it's time for people to understand that jon ossoff is someone who has not put georgia first or even, frankly, some of his business deals america first, and they know the six-year senator who's fought for georgia time and time again. he has everyoned the vote -- earned the vote of the people. martha: you and i spoke the other night about some of th irregularities that have been

brought up in the georgia presidential election. there's been a lot of division between the governor and the president and the secretary of state who's also a republican and the president over what happened there and responsibility for what happened there. we also talked about signature matching which was, you know, something that i think was disturbing to a lot of people when they looked at how it worked in election. here's kelly loeffler a few days back talking about the way it's going to work on january 5th. of watch this. >> we can match signatures, and we absolutely should be verifying them, we should be checking the signatures right now. that's what we're going to do for the january 5th election. martha: so what does she mean by that? when you and i spoke, you said there wouldn't be any changes in the way signature verification is done, and she seems to indicate she thinks there will be. >> i think what she's saying is what i said the other night to you, and that was i think the sunshine we've provided and the forcing of the secretary of state to actually take seriously signature verification.

remember, many of us were very concerned about the consent decree that the secretary of state, attorney general, governor entered into. we believe it weakened the signature verify e case. but i think what we've hue lighted and what senator leffler is talking about as well is we know this is important to the georgia voter, this is important to the american voter. those signatures are actually correct to the registry of the voter itself, not just a signature that may be on file such as the application for an absentee ballot. i'm hopful the governor is -- hopeful the governor will continue to do so, actually provide more volunteers and make sure those signatures are verified to the right signature, that being the original suggest within the register to vote. martha: i mean, that's for sure. that seems pretty important. so we'll see how they're able to navigate that in this and whether or not there's any difference from what we saw last time. a lot of people very upis the about what they saw in the georgia election on november 3rd.

congressman, thank you. great to see you. thanks for being here. >> take care, martha. have a good one. martha: thank you, you as well. dana perino is anchor of the daily briefing and cohost of "the five," ben domenech cofounder of the federalist, and donna brazile is a fox news contributor. great to have the three of you with us to watch this tonight. it's going to be exciting watching this debate between these two candidates. dana, let me start with you. obviously, one of the most important things here for both sides is got out the vote. we saw a very inpressive effort on that on the democrat side and questions raised about how it was all cowered out. what do you think -- do you think republicans are going to be more effective at that this time around? >> well, i think that a couple of things work in the republicans' favor. first of all, republican party has not lost -- excuse me -- has not lost one of these runoffs since 1992, so they've won 28 of them. but they're not resting on that. just last week the democrats

said that they're going to start knocking on doors. the republicans actually had people on the ground ready to knock on doors the day after the general election anticipating that there might be runoffs. so there's that. they also kind of basically mounted a presidential-level effort not only the ad spending and the republican fundraising is comment, the democrats doing very well on that too, no one's going to be short of money, but the republicans were able to knock on thousands of doors every day. plus one of the things the president said last night at his rally is that he wants them to vote, and he even said mail in your vote. if you get the ballot, turn it in right away because the republicans very much want to cut into any sort of early lead that the democrats would have either in early votes or in mail-in balloting. so the republicans, from their perspective, think they're in very good position. but they're not talking anything for granted -- taking anything for granted. martha: yeah, no resting on your laurels. we're in such a different

environment. 30% of georgians voted by mail-in vote, this is in the "wall street journal" op-ed today, it says that the president will be blamed if republicans lose. and here's a little piece of that, that op-ed. it9 says the attacks on fellow republicans are causing a split in the part that could help the democrats who are flooding the state with money and absentee ballot drives. republicans and independents who voted for mr. biden might be willing to vote for the two gop senators with the president not on the ballot. but mr. trump won't let the election go, meanwhile, he claims that the vote is rigged for democrats who could stay home. so there's a lot in there, ben, but i want to get your reaction to that, and in particular, the part about the absentee ballot drives which proved so successful for democrats in the last election. >> that seems like a lot of establishment spin, but i just don't think that t true.

in this -- it's true. i think the president did a pretty good argument at this rally the other night when he was making the case you should vote for these candidates if you want to see the agenda that i have continue. the trump agenda that includes a lot of things that are at odds with, frankly, what mitch mcconnell and a lot of establishment republicans in washington really want. i think the real problem for those republicans is that they wanted to return to the same old approach that they had used in the past, trying to win over the votes of socially liberal republicans in suburbs and the like, and they didn't want of to have the kind of trump agenda really be at the core of what they were still the trying to do. it's kind of like a coach who really wants to run his offense even if it's not the best way to win a game. i think this time around you're really going to put that to the test. and to the degree that kelly loeffler can offer an argument tonight that she represents a continuation of the trump agenda in order to get those voters out, that's really what she needs to accomplish, i think, in order to

martha: interesting, donna your thoughts on what you're looking for, this is a big night, most of the americans and the rest of the country are going to get a look at these two candidates that are playing such a big role. >> i agree, it's a national race right now and i do believe the voters will get an opportunity to see which of the two candidates really care about them, georgia like many other states in my native south are experiencing a spike in covid cases across the state, they want to know what the senators are doing in these negotiations to bring real-time relief. i also think this is an opportunity for reverend warnock to knock down some of the bitter racist criticism that he has received throughout the last couple of the weeks stated that he will not only defend the police which he has never stated but also talking about his own history and background.

this is an opportunity for him to knock those rumors back. i also think that democrats will have to be very motivated during the runoff and making sure not only the absentee ballots are in early but voting campus, there is a lot at stake in this is another referendum on donald trump. martha: dana, it was interesting to look back at the presidential numbers from the foxnews voter analysis at the most important issue for voters in georgia, 39% economy jobs 37. a quick thought on that. >> we will see if that changes at its america across the board experiences another surge. i think president trump had the right idea which was to broaden out and talk about the longer run. we see light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccine and as you said, there's a lot to cover, lotta policy, covid is important but not the only thing. martha: thank you, we are going to watch all of this together

this evening, a very important moment in georgia as it plays out we will go to georgia public broadcasting studios in atlanta work the debate between kelly loeffler and pastor warnock gets underway moments away. stay tuned. ♪ ♪ good evening and welcome i am russ spencer, evening anchor and you're watching the atlanta press club debate series.

we are broadcasting from the studio of joe georgia broadcasting in atlanta and we welcome viewers from across the state and country. this is a runoff debate for the u.s. senate held by kelly loeffler. let's meet the candidates now. they are in alphabetical order, republican candidate kelly loeffler appointed to the u.s. senate in january of 2020 to replace retiring georgia senator johnny isakson, she is the wnba team the atlanta dream. democrat candidate raphael warnock is the senior pastor at a busy ebenezer church where martin luther king junior was popular. greg blumstein is a reporter with the atlanta constitution and lisa ram is hosting senior producer on w aba radio in atlanta. let's get started. the topics were not shared with the candidates in advance, the debate be divided into three rounds in each round candidates will have 60 seconds to answer questions and 30 seconds for a

rebuttal and as moderator i will determine when a rebuttal is appropriate. in the first round they will be asked two questions each and greg you get the first question to senator loeffler. >> senator loeffler thank you for joining us. senator trump open his life also claiming he won georgia, he did not, according to the resulting loss for 12000 votes, do you stand by his narrative that the election was rigged and you support his demand of governor kemp to call a special session to overturn those results. >> i want to thank the atlanta press club for hosting this important debate. it is vitally important that georgians trust our election process and the president has every right to every legal recourse and that's what's taking place that i called for investigation and now there's 250 investigations open here in georgia but the president was also clear that georgians need to come out and vote for david perdue and myself because what's at stake in the selection. chuck schumer said now we take

georgia, then we change america, we all know what that change would be, they have been very clear, they want to raise taxes on hard-working georgians, they want to defend the police, they want to open our borders, they want to implement the green new deal, i am fighting for every single georgian to live the american dream that i was blessed to live. greg: did you believe the election was rigged. >> it's very clear there was 250 investigations open including an investigation into one of my opponents organizations, for voter fraud and we have to make sure that georgians trust this process because of what is at stake in the selection, the promise that chuck schumer made was to fundamentally change america and i making sure that we don't go down the road of socialism. >> is your turn to ask a question of doctor warnock. >> good evening, switching from

the pool sent to the senate for washington, if elected how we navigate the u.s. constitution separating church and state? >> thank you so very much, it's wonderful to be here and i want to think everybody who turned in tonight and i also became aware that senator loeffler lost a member of her staff and i want to extend my condolences to her and the family of that young man. my whole life has been about service it's white entered into the ministry and i am running for the united states senate as a continuation of the life project. the thing about me running for the senate, this gives me an opportunity to work on the issues i been working on for years i've been fighting for access to affordable healthcare i have been fighting for voting rights, essential workers ordinary people because i know

what it's like to be an ordinary person i grew up in public housing, the first college graduate in my family of 12 i'm number 11 and if it were not for pell grants, low interest student loans, i would not be here i know the importance of good federal policy. lisa: your goal is to work for fighting families but what does that translate to afford housing and healthcare as you mentioned? raphael warnock: we gotta make sure we center ordinary people and all of the policy that we do. i grew up with a father and a mother who instilled me great values, my dad had a way of saying get up, put shoes on and he gave me the sense of worth ethic but if i'm honest my dad alone but not a puppy here on the stage. here's a kid who grew up in public housing, i'm running for the united state senate against the wealthiest member of congress. only in america is not possible and inviting to make sure that kids like me whether they're growing up in public housing down in savannah georgia or

rural communities in north georgia that they have access to the american dream that i believe so much in. i am concerned that washington is not focused on ordinary people. you cannot tell the difference between washington back rooms in corporate board rooms, my opponent represents the worst of that kind of problem and that's why i'm grateful for this opportunity. kelly loeffler: i would like to respond. russ: please do. kelly loeffler: i was born and raised on a farm i grew up working on the fields, i waitressed through school and the third in my family to graduate from college. i worked hard to live the american dream and became a job creator in georgia. but this rhetoric is a distraction from the issues at hand, the democrats want to fundamentally change america and the agent of change is my opponent radical liberal raphael

warnock someone who has attacked police from the pulpit and someone who attacked our military and agreed to raise taxes on hard-working georgians as much as $2000 per family off the bat. that is not what georgians need to get through this pandemic to get our economy going, i'm fighting for the american dream every day. russ: driver and you will have an opportunity to respond, greg is going to get to them. it is his turn to ask a question. greg: i was question on the same you have been at tac from the law enforcement military and others, you said there taken out of context but you made these remarks in a public forum, why shouldn't georgians take them at face value? raphael warnock: it is clear to me that my opponent is going to work really hard spending millions of dollars of her own money trying to push a narrative about me because she is clearly decided that she does not have a case to be made for why she should stay in that seat. i have worked my whole life to pull people together, i have

been working on criminal justice reform, i worked alongside law enforcement officers to do that work. several years ago i actually brought together a law enforcement officers here in the city, the chief of police, black lives matter activists, the sitting attorney general, families, parents, all in my church focused on working as on these issues as we seen emerge time and time again and we need someone who knows how to bring people together rather than using these issues as a political point to be made. these issues are tragic and are law enforcement officers lay it on the line every day they have an ally with me. i think you can affirm what law enforcement officers do and hold them accountable. russ: 32nd senator loeffler. kelly loeffler: my opponent radical liberal raphael warnock has called police officer's gangsters, thugs, bullies and a

threat to our children when i gave them the chance to apologize he declined. he's also said you cannot serve god and the military. he has used the bible to justify these attacks and make other divisive statements, what we need is someone who can bring together to help us get through this pandemic and rebuild our economy across this country and right here in georgia. that's what i'm fighting to do. russ: do you want to put that into context? raphael warnock: i would love to respond. this is why i think folks have turned off from politics very often because people will turn anything into a cynical political argument. i was preaching that day from a very familiar matthew text that says you cannot serve god and mammon, it was a sermon about a moral foundation for everything that we do and when you have everything in order that actually makes a better soldier in a better senator and had

kelly loeffler listen to the sermon rather than try to make her cheap political point she would not abuse her advantage as a u.s. senator to make millions on a pandemic while playing it down to the people she was supposed to be representing. kelly loeffler: i would like to respond. russ: go ahead please. greg.kelly loeffler: i'm a chrin of deep faith, i don't need a lecture from someone who is use the bible to not only justify attacking our military, that is not in matthew 6 - 24 and does not say you cannot serve the military and god. he's also use the bible to justify abortion. i cannot stand by and let georgians not know who my opponent is, how radical his views are and how he would fundamentally change our country, he is out of step with georgia values. russ: in the second round you will get a chance to ask questions of each other. lisa has one more question for senator loeffler. lisa: state election officials gabriel starling proclaimed this has to stop he was referring to

threats against election workers governor kemp and the secretary of state who received death threats. sterling warned that false claims widespread election fraud could lead to violence, he said somebody's going to get killed. at his urging you responded by denouncing the violence but some did not think that was enough, tell us tonight what is your message to those who have threatened officials and have you made an effort to lower the temperature on behalf of the republican party. kelly loeffler: absolutely as someone who has been the subject of threats of violence i absolutely denounce it. here is what is at stake the future of our country hangs on this state having free, fair, trusted elections. we have built an organization within our campaign to make sure georgians trust this process in president trump has encouraged georgians to get out and vote because the future of the country is at stake on januar

january 5, we need folks to trust the process because that's what makes our democracy possible right here. we have got to get to the bottom of these investigations that have started too late, there's 250 investigations. including raphael warnock's voter registration for the second time trying registered voters in new york. that does not represent the voice of georgia and i will fight to make sure that we hold the officials accountable for carrying out free, fair, trusted elections that are accurate. russ: reverend i want to ask you about the selection, much has been made of president trump's refusal to concede, two years ago stacey abrams refused to concede the governor's race a voter suppression. do you think there was voter suppression two years ago and you think this election has been fair? raphael warnock: listen, voter suppression is something that happens all across the country, it is happen here in the state of georgia but stacey abrams did not refuse to acknowledge the fact that her opponent was the

governor, here we are several weeks after the election and kelly loeffler continues to cast doubt on an american democratic election. it is time to put this behind us and get focused on the concerns of ordinary people. while she's playing political gains trying to represent someone who does not live in georgia. georgians are wondering when they will get covid-19 relief. there wondering who is going to put small businesses in front of the large corporate giants and they are wondering when are we going to call the people -- give the people we call essential workers in essential wage. i want to go to the united states senate to stand up for ordinary people. when politicians aren't satisfied with the voters, they try to pick their voters and that's what's going on right now. kelly loeffler: may i respond? russ: please. kelly loeffler: raphael warnock has partnered with stacey abrams and the voter suppression

conspiracies when in fact we have record turnout in our state year after year and it's unfortunate that the focus is on a debate about who won the election when this process is still playing out in president trump has every right to every legal recourse but we also make sure that georgians know we have a process that works, their vote is counted and no illegal votes are counted and that's what i will continue to fight for to make sure georgians know everything is at stake in the future of our country, not just the radical ideas of the left but the radical candidates who would defend the police, who would stand by and attack our military and withdraw funds that would support chuck schumer's defunding of our military by 25%. i'm going to continue to make sure we come back from this virus strong. i'm the only candidate qualified to help rebuild our economy and get passes pandemic. russ: we want to get to the point where you can ask each other questions.

that concludes the first portion of this debate. for people tuning in you are watching the runoff debate for one of george's two u.s. senate seats. we moved to the second round where the candidates will ask each other a question, then 30 seconds to ask a question, 30 seconds to respond to their opponents answer. reverend warnock you get the first question. raphael warnock: senator loeffler when you received the private briefing regarding the coronavirus pandemic, you dump millions of dollars of stock in order to protect your own investments and then weeks later when there came an opportunity to give ordinary georgians an extra $600 of relief you said you saw no need in called it counterproductive. why do you think it's counter productive to help ordinary georgians in the middle the pandemic. kelly loeffler: thank you for that question, i've been completely exonerated, those are lies perpetrated by the left-wing media and democrats to

distract from the radical agenda. since i got to the senate i have worked hard to deliver relief to georgians during this pandemic and i'm continuing to do that. but look what democrats have done, they have stood for stonewalling relief that i voted for twice in the senate to deliver relief to families, farmers, schools, hospitals grade they are playing politics and that's what they're using their lives to cover up, the fact that they don't have a positive agenda to lift georgians up, they want to defend the police, raise your taxes, implement a new deal that would crush jobs and opportunity. i'm working on to make sure that we can get the economy going again and we can drive forward after this pandemic and i been working side-by-side from my colleagues to make sure we get that done and we have delivered results. $47 billion i'd want to georgia save 1.5 million jobs of small businesses. russ: reverend you have 30 seconds to respond if you would like. raphael warnock: i do not want to defend the police and kelly

loeffler knows that. but she keeps saying this because she wants to distract from her own record. the truth of the matter is were left up to her, georgians would not have received the $600 of expanded unemployment insurance and they haven't seen in any relief in months. she hasn't done anything to provide relief for ordinary people. the folks emceeing all across the state in pain in the middle of this pandemic. russ: senator loeffler it's your turn to ask the question of reverend warnock. kelly loeffler: reverend warnock, in your writings and teaching you repeatedly praise marxism and the redistribution of income. can you hear it now for all georgians renowned socialism, and marxism? raphael warnock: i believe in a free enterprise system and my dad was a small business owner. during the great recession, you know what i was doing, i was leading like church to build a

community center where among other things we had a financial literacy center that taught people how to repair their credit, create a 700 credit score community, how to create a business, how to buy a home, how to participate in our free enterprise system. kelly loeffler on the other hand was teaching the big banks how to hide their investments offshore in the cayman islands. this is how she spent her career before she went to the senate, this is what she's been focused on now that she is in the sena senate, she was only there three weeks, i'm not sure she was fully unpacked when she started dumping millions of dollars of stock trying to protect herself. she purchased that seat. it's done well for her, the issue is that the people who sold it to her don't own it and the people of the george are coming back to get their seat. russ: senator you have 30 seconds. kelly loeffler: predictably you have heard more lies from

radical liberal raphael warnock who wants to distract from his own words calling police officer's gangsters, dogs, bullies and a threat to our children saying you can't serve god in the military for his attacks on israel, what i'm focused on making sure we continue to deliver relief, verity delivered relief for 174,000 small businesses, $7 billion for hospitals and when the government did not move quickly enough, i purchased ppe out of my own funds and donated to hospitals and i donate my salary to charities across georgia, i'm here working for georgia. russ: reverend warnock your turn to ask a second question of the senator. raphael warnock: my question is pretty simple. yes or no senator loeffler. did donald trump lose the election? kelly loeffler: you know, president trump has every right to use every legal recourse

available. in our own state we've seen time and again, we have investigations that need to be completed. in fact we run to audits and those audits discovered thousands of ballots are crossed several counties here in georgia that were not counted. i called for his signature audit, we need to hold folks accountable in these investigations to make sure they move forward quickly because everything is at stake on january 5 for the future of our country. if the democrats win they will defund the police, they will keep our country locked down, they want more lockdowns, they will raise your taxes in the middle the pandemic and they will continue to keep the borders open and support taxpayer funding for illegal immigrant healthcare. and they will defund our military by 25%. my opponent radical liberal raphael warnock would be a rubberstamp for chuck schumer because he is bought and paid for by tens of millions of dollars from out-of-state dark liberal money from chuck schumer. russ: reverend warnock 30

seconds. raphael warnock: i have been across the state especially going to rural areas and when i go to the small towns, their surprise that i am there, i'm surprised that they are surprised that they have not seen a u.s. senator. they are wondering why there hospitals are closing, why kelly loeffler does not think it's a good idea to make sure that they have healthcare in the middle of the pandemic. we refuse to expand medicaid in a state, nine of our hospitals have closed and there wondering who in washington is looking out for them. russ: senator loeffler you get the final question in this. kelly loeffler: reverend warnock, you were arrested for obstructing police in the child abuse investigation, can you tell me the nature of this child abuse, why were the police called, what was your knowledge or involvement in this incident? raphael warnock: , sure, here's the facts, and kelly loeffler

actually knows them. i was working and trying to make sure that young people who were being questioned by law enforcement had the benefit of counsel, a lawyer or a parent. the law enforcement officers actually later thanked me for my cooperation and for helping th them. she knows this, but the question is why she doing this? it is because she has made a calculation that after being in the senate for ten months, she does not have a case to be made for why the people of georgia should keep her there. she has been focused on the same thing she has focused on her whole life, herself. during the recession she was helping billionaires like her hide their money in the cayman islands. she dumped millions of dollars of stock, played it down and then when she could help ordinary people she did not do

it in the people of georgia have not seen relief for months. she is spending millions of dollars focused on me because she has no case to make for herself. i think that is sad but that's no reason for her to keep a senate seat. russ: you have a rebuttal. kelly loeffler: you just heard radical liberal raphael warnock light again and not answer question, an important question that georgians deserve to have the answer to. unfortunately this is consistent with his track record of disrespecting law enforcement, anyone in georgia can read the police report as to what happened in this child abuse investigation at the church camp. georgians deserve answers but they also deserve someone who respects our men and women of law enforcement. he did call police officers gangsters and thugs and he said we should empty the prisons and in cash bail. he will not keep our communities safe, that is what i am fighting for. russ: senator thank you. that concludes our second round. if you are just joining us this is the runoff debate between candidates for the senate seat

to fill the georgia seat held senator loeffler. we turn to the panel to ask questions and as moderator i'm going to take the privilege of asking a question to the two of you to start this round. reverend al begin with you, i'm interested in the number you're comfortable with when it comes to coronavirus relief. senate majority leader mcconnell seems to favor 500 billing, the moderates are talking about 908, two months ago the white house adjusted 1.8 trillion in the democrats wanted more, how much is required by this. raphael warnock: the problem is, for months we have not seen any relief. and we can talk about the numbers, that would be an important part of the conversation but when we sell relief we saw the shake shack's of the world and roos chris in the l.a. lakers at the front of the line and small businesses at the back of the line. our front-line workers, our teachers, our police officers, our health professionals need

ppe. our workers need relief and we need to begin even now thinking beyond how we survived this pandemic and begin to think about how we survive on the other into the pandemic. while were providing relief i think it's time to start thinking about an infrastructure program here in this country that will repair our roads in our bridges and begin to build green energy and green energy jobs, provide jobs with a livable wage and position our economy to lead into the future. russ: can you give me a number? raphael warnock: look, i think that we should at least make sure whatever we do, workers are at the center of that relief. russ: senator loeffler you're in a position to vote on this very soon perhaps, janet yellen has said the country can afford to borrow this money now to get people through this crisis until were all vaccinated and if we don't spend it now it's going to

cost more in terms of a job destruction, what would your number be and what can you live with. kelly loeffler: i was pleased to support all the relief packages when we were addressing this virus, over $3 trillion of relief to americans, 47 billion that i helped bring right here to georgia including 7 billion for hospitals, 174,000 small businesses that i brought $15 billion in ppp funds, 1.5 million jobs and in fact they voted twice on the senate floor in recent months to support a package that democrats have blocked that nancy pelosi has confirmed that it was playing politics with americans lives and livelihood. she has held out targeted relief that would've gone to hospitals to schools, to families, to small businesses. that is what i have been fighting for, that's what the democrats are holding up. my opponent radical liberal raphael warnock would be a

rubberstamp for chuck schumer and nancy pelosi as they try to use the pandemic to put the cost on back of hard-working george's informal part taxes to fundamentally change america and i'm not going to stand by and let that happen. i'm going to make sure that we serve our families and our small businesses right here in georgia. russ: thank you, lisa church and ask a question. lisa: senator loeffler you called yourself the most conservative candidate in the race, you're also the richest u.s. senator with an estimated net worth of more than a half billion dollars, how will you use your wealth in your privilege to improve the life of the average georgian, the one who makes minimum wage and more specifically minorities who feel you have not made an attempt to meet them where they are. kelly loeffler: first of all i been blessed to live the american dream and that's what i'm fighting for every single day in washington because i was born and raised on a farm, a group working on the film fieldi

filled out a timecard at 11, i waitressed my way through high school and college in the first in my family to graduate from college. i know what it means to live paycheck to paycheck, i've done it, i also annoy blessed to live the american dream, that's when fighting to protect it. that's why values matter to up hold the constitution, our freedoms are under attack in this country in religious freedom, the right to life, the second amendment, that's what helped create opportunity for all georgians to live freely my opponent radical liberal raphael warnock is a socialist he support policies that would grow our government, bankrupt hard-working families with high taxes, the cost of the green new deal in every georgian family would be $75000 in taxes would go up $2000 per family. that's when focused on helping every single georgian succeed. lisa: have you reached out to minority communities to hear their issues and what they're thinking and feeling? kelly loeffler: absolutely i have built my career based on

bringing folks together and left everyone up. that's what i've done from day one. i just introduce my prosperity plan that would bring much-needed capital access to small businesses in minority communities because our country has failed in that area. that is one way that we can help, we can also make sure that we protect school choice, the democrats would overturn school choice trapping children, for education within their zip code. i am fighting to make sure that we fund school choice and support kids to live their dream to have the education, i'm also making sure we keep taxes low, the jobs act that raphael warnock would overturn would raise taxes on single moms making $39000 with two kids. their taxes would go up 20%. that is not a way to help hard-working families here in

georgia succeed. russ: grade your turn to ask a question. greg: this is for both. do you plan to accept a vaccine when they clear it safe, how do you plan to persuade the public to take it? raphael warnock: absolutely winter health professionals tell us we have a vaccine that works and effective and safe, i will take it. i will encourage the folks who listen to me, the people in my church and in the community to take it. i will also try to work hard as a senator to make sure the communities that are so often marginalized don't find themselves at the back of the line again that they have access to the vaccine so often that they find themselves at the back of the line. i have spent my life standing up, fighting for ordinary peop people. kelly loeffler is trying to misrepresent me because she knows that she has spent the first ten months, all ten months

of her tenure thinking about herself, she's unelected senator of georgia, she is appointed the people of georgia have been disappointed in looking for somebody will stand up for ordinary people. i've spent my life doing that as a citizen and i'll do that as a senator. russ: your 30 seconds to respond to that before greg asked his question of you. kelly loeffler: i a spent every single day working for georgia georgians, i'm 100% about georgia, that was my calling to public service. i was blessed to live the american dream and i want georgians to live theirs. i was a job creator in georgia and i'm the only person in this race that knows how to help georgians. i've created jobs and he never created a job in his life buddies advocated for high taxes that would crush small businesses and families seeking the opportunity, he would take away school choice for kids who want to have a leg up and he would play politics just as nancy pelosi and chuck schumer have done holding up relief for

political reasons and i think that is completely wrong. russ: greg. greg: reminder of the question, do you plan to except the coronavirus vaccine if they say it safe and you intend to persuade the public to take it? kelly loeffler: absolutely, i was with vice president pence on friday at the cdc, i cannot be more proud of what we have done this year to deliver relief and also get cures, vaccines and therapies that are effective and i'm going to encourage my fellow georgians to stay safe and get that vaccine and we have a great plan to prioritize those communities who need it most and we will make sure that is carried out. my opponent will continue to play politics with the pandemic, telling lies in trying to achieve political objectives that would try to radically change our country at a moment in a pandemic. i will continue to fight for every single georgian to have the freedom and opportunities that they deserve and not be crushed by big government that

would have government mandated healthcare that would provide free healthcare for illegal immigrants, raise their taxes to pay for government healthcare and bankrupt medicare. i am making sure that georgians have the resources they need while we keep our taxes in our government low and small. russ: lisa, it's your turn to ask questions before doctor warnock, and atlantic business owner who had to close her doors because she was unable to pay thousands in back rent due to the pandemic. president-elect joe biden considers it a top priority to get a generous stimulus package through congress and even said support that. if you were to speak to katina, what would you ensure her that you would do to help her and other business owners get the help that they need. raphael warnock: my dad was a small business owner so i understand the struggle that small business owners have and i spent time in my church creating financial literacy center that helps people to get started.

i think a good sign of what someone will do an office is what they were doing before they ever went into office. i spent my whole career standing up for ordinary people. in fact, we had a job center in my church contrary to what senator loeffler is trying to suggest and i have stood up for ordinary workers time and time again. during this pandemic we call people essential workers while paying them a central wage, we want to provide small business owners like her the assistance and the support that they need. kelly loeffler is out of touch, she's think about people who are like her and i'm okay with the fact that she wants to make money, i'd think you should not use the people seek to enrich yourself, you use the people seek to represent the people. kelly loeffler: i would like to respond. russ: please do.

kelly loeffler: these are more lies from radical liberal raphael warnock someone who has invited the del castro a murderous dictator into his own church. someone who is celebrated anti-american, anti-summit jeremiah wright. he has also said police officers are gangsters and thugs and refused to apologize, he said you cannot serve god in the military. he has actually made sure that we know who he is in his own words, those are not my own words, i'm working hard to serve georgians, of served thousands of georgians and so proud to represent the state help georgians through this challenging time. russ: reverent as i understand your young man in the church in new york would you like to respond? raphael warnock: there is a lot at stake right now. in the middle of this pandemic. it is too bad she's engaged in the politics of distraction and division, i have never met him i never invited him. he has nothing to do with me. if you want to know who informs

me and my sense of how we engage as people in the economic system, you need look no further than matthew 25, matthew 25 christian that's what i yam. i was hungry and you fed me and i was thirsty and you gave me something to drink and i was sick and you visited me. love your neighbor and that doesn't mean you get rid of your neighbors healthcare particular in the middle the pandemic. russ: greg. kelly loeffler: may i respond? russ: go ahead. kelly loeffler: i'm not going to be lectured by some but he uses the bible to justify abortion, to attack our men and women in the military, what is happening here someone who will not own up to their own record of division, he has called on americans to repent for their warship of whiteness, that is divisive, that is hurtful, he celebrated jeremiah wright anti-semite, he called israel an apartheid state, that is wrong for america

and i will continue to make sure georgians understand that is him in his own words. russ: reverent please respond to the abortion issue in particular. raphael warnock: listen i have a profound reverence for life and abiding respect for choice, the question is whose decision is it. i happen to think that a patient's room is too small of a place for a woman, her doctor in the u.s. government, i think that's too many people in the room. but those who are concerned about life and i certainly am on to be focused on the incredibly high rates of infant mortality and maternal mortality in our country when compared to other developed nations. that something the government can work on and i've been working on in my entire career. russ: greg. kelly loeffler.greg: president s attacked governor kemp, he said he was ashamed to support him

and even invited one of your formal rivals to run against him in 2022, was the president wrong to say that about the governor and are you concerned his comments can alienate republicans in georgia ahead of the runoffs? kelly loeffler: the president has the right to pursue every legal recourse to make sure this is a free and fair election in georgia and we know these audits have turned up thousands of votes that were initially uncounted and i have called for his signature audit and the buck stops with the secretary of state, he has to run an election that georgians trust because everything is at state on january 5, the future of the country, we can take past of supporting the american dream of standing the economy back up and getting to this virus together or the path of socialism that little girl ro rafael warnock's wants to take from our country, the private insurance from your jobs, turning your doctor's office into the dmv, he would open our borders, bring amnesty, free healthcare to illegal immigrants, none of that would

help the pandemic and get kids back in school. i am not going to stand by and be lectured by someone who has not done anything for americans during this pandemic. greg: was the president wrong when he called the governors those remarks. kelly loeffler: i appreciate the president support of me and i appreciate the governor support of me. they both understand what's at stake in the selection, that's why they're encouraging georgians to get out and vote for david perdue and myself because were fighting for georgians every single day, were using our private sector insurance to make sure georgians get back to work and school and church to while the democrats pay politics, hold up relief and try to keep our country locked down. that is wrong. lisa: senator loeffler on that last question, president trump criticized your governor, governor brian kemp, he appointed you to the senate, you've criticized the election process as well, tonight can you tell us where your loyalty lies

as you represent the state of georgia, is it with the governor kemp or president trump? kelly loeffler: lisa, my loyalties are with georgia, i had a calling to public service to serve the people of georgia, i have lived the american dream, i want to make sure every georgian can do that from going to working on a farm to waitressing, being the first in my family to graduate from college, i know the free enterprise is the way to lift everyone up, not socialism, not high taxes, not big government, not open borders, not the chaos of defending the police that the left wants, not the lockdowns. i making sure georgians know what is at stake on january 5. our way of life in georgia will radically change as promised by chuck schumer, now we take georgia then we change america. that's my number one focus, making sure georgians know what

is at stake. i have served georgians every single day, it's been my honor and i will continue to do that. russ: if everything is at stake on january 5, that would presume president trump has lost, is that what you are saying? kelly loeffler: what's at stake is the senate majority, this will determine who brings bills to the senate for an under the republican senate, we have been able to deliver $3 trillion of relief to hard-working americans hard-hit by this pandemic to the front-line workers, hospitals, schools. we have to continue to make sure we open up our economy, the democrats want to keep this lockdown, they want to radically change our country and their agent of change as radical liberal rafael warnock, someone who is said to imagine police whose number one goal is to defend the police. we know the direction the country would take and we will continue to make sure that georgians understand our very way of life here in georgia and across the country is under

attack by the left. russ: not to belabor the point but all the things your warning about not be happening presumably with president trump as president. it almost something you're conceding that that part of it has been settled and now it's important for the republicans to keep the majority in the senate to have a divided government? kelly loeffler: i saw firsthand that the senate as a shock absorber in this country, i saw that firsthand when i got to washington and the impeachment trial started. i saw the russia hoax and how that distracted us from addressing this virus, the democrats have played nothing but politics since day one, they never accepted that president trump was president, they were distracted from serving americans, they were distracted during the pandemic and now they use the pandemic to fundamentally change this country and put the cost of the government on the back of hard-working georgians, that's why i'm fighting to make sure that the republican majority is retained in the senate because we are the shock absorber for

commonsense policies that bring americans together that lift everyone up, that provide a great educational choices for kids that stops the radical agenda of the abortion on demand the democrats want. it attacks our second amendment right. they want to take away our guns, they want to tax guns and they want to fundamentally change america and radical liberal rafael warnock is their agent of change. russ: greg time for your question. greg: democrats to win control of the u.s. senate, they will be pressure to increase the size of the u.s. supreme court, would you support adding more justices to the supreme court to offset president trump's appointments and you think there needs to be term limits for justice on the bench? raphael warnock: i want to point out that kelly loeffler actually voted to defend the police. she voted against the cops program, one of only ten united states senators who did. i don't think we should defund

the police but we certainly do need criminal justice reform. we need to make sure that we have an independent review process when civilians die at the hands of police, we need to make sure that police and officers and departments that have a pattern of misconduct are held accountable. we can do that and celebrate police at the same time. as i move all across the state, people are not asking me about the courts and whether we should expand the courts, i know that's an interesting question for people inside the beltway to discuss but they are wondering when in the world they will get covid-19 relief, they haven't got any from kelly loeffler in months. when she had a chance to stand up for ordinary people she thought $600 was too much, meanwhile she was busy dumping millions of dollars of stock profiting from the pandemic, who does that.

russgreg: i'm wondering can you answer the question, do you support expanding the supreme court? raphael warnock: i'm really not focused on it. and i think too often the politics in washington has been about the politicians. i am a pastor and so when i think about these issues i think about the people that i've had to stand with in the critical care units while their loved one was dying between life and death and not only are they concerned about the sickness there wondering how in the world they will pay for. if kelly loeffler has her way 1.8 million georgians with pre-existing conditions on these people hypertension, diabetes, folks who had a stroke, cancer, people who are recovering from covid would not be able to get healthcare. i think that is morally wrong and i it's my faith that actualy informs that. she can't explain why she wants

to take away people's healthcare. she knows the junk healthcare plan that she rolled out has a loophole in a big enough to drive a mack truck through. she cannot explain that so she's trying to misrepresent my record. but the people georgia understand the truth. greg: senator 30 seconds please. kelly loeffler: you just heard radical liberal rafael warnock lie about my record, i never voted to deepen the police. i voted to support more funding that the democrats of course blocked. but he also is distracting from the fact that he would pack the supreme court. that is outrageous. justice ginsburg herself said nine justices is the right number. he would pack the court with radical justices that would legislate from the bench to fundamentally override the constitution and other laws in this country and georgians need to know, that is wrong for georgia and our country.

russ: would you like 30 seconds to respond? raphael warnock: i believe in the constitution. this is the greatest system on the planet. and our country is the only country where my story is even possible. i believe in our norms, i believe in the separation of powers and i believe in the nonviolent, on chaotic transition of power. kelly loeffler auto stand with the people of georgia, the four greatest words ever spoken out of democracy are the people have spoken on the presidential election in their waiting on their senator to be focused on them. not the person in the white house. russ: lisa. lisa: senator loeffler, given all the police violence we have seen against african-americans, consider this. courtney owens of atlanta is worried about her son, her father and husband all african-americans, she fears for the lives daily. you called the black lives matter movement fascist, you alienated members of your own

basketball team by talking about the stands there taking rather. is that still your view tonight after seeing and hearing how it hits home with so many people personally and what conversation would you sit down and have with courtney owens? kelly loeffler: the life of every african-american is important and there is no place for racism in this country. but there are organizations whose number one goal is to defend the police and we know that hurts minority communities more than anyone and we have to stand with our men and women of law enforcement and i will always do that. that is a distraction from the fact that my opponent does not stand with police officers, he is endorsed by organizations whose number one goal is to defend the police. he's called police officer's gangsters, thugs, bullies, territory children, he's called for our prisons to be opened up and emptied out pretty called for the abolishment of the cash

bail system. he does not care about safety and security in any community and i am fighting to make sure we have the resources to keep our community safe in our police department well-funded and well-trained. russ: senator, thank you, would you like to respond? about opening up the deal? raphael warnock: first of all the land of the free is the mass incarceration capital of the world. we would house 25% of the world prisoners. and people on both sides of the aisle know that our current criminal justice system needs reform. and we saw that this summer, multiracial coalition of conscious pouring out into american streets after the tragic deaths of george floyd and breonna taylor and ahmaud are bree and so many others. and what did kelly loeffler do she used her enormous privilege

and power as a united states senator to pick a fight with the black women on her team who know what it's like to grow up in a community where you have to have talks with your children, one about the birds and the bees and the other about what happens if you're pulled over by a police officer. to acknowledge that is to not condemn police officers in general, i have worked with police across the years, i have been invited to speak at the memorial services when they have lost their lives in the line of duty and she says she is against racism and racism has no place but she welcome the support of a q and conspiracy theorist and she sat down with a white supremacist for interview. i don't think she can explain that. russ: let me give you a chance

to respond and then we will have one more question before we get to closing statements. kelly loeffler: that is incredibly sad these comments that he has made. first of all, there is not a racist bone in my body, i worked to bring communities together my entire life. but this is really terrible coming from someone who has divided people continually, he's called on rick americans to repent for their worship of whiteness and he's called israel an apartheid state and said we should and military assistant and he compared israelis defending themselves against palestinians compared them to birds of prey and celebrated jeremiah wright and anti-american and time summit that is divisive. greg: should members of congress be barred from trading stock? kelly loeffler: what is at stake here in the selection is the american dream, that's what's under attack, when they attack me for a lie, a left-wing media lie conspired with the democra

democrats, this is an attack on every single georgian who gives up every day to work hard to provide a better life for their family, who wants to live the american dream. it is a distraction from the real issues not the conspiracies in the selection. what is at stake is the future of our country, our freedom to live the american dream, to not be taxed into bankruptcy, to not have to go into government healthcare, government run healthcare, they want to take away the healthcare that 180 million americans rely on through their work, that's why introduce the healthcare plan to make it more affordable, not government run healthcare that would bankrupt those that rely on medicare and i will continue to fight to keep her country free and keep our borders secure and make sure that our communities are safe and secure. russ: reverend you have an opportunity to respond. raphael warnock: the senator cannot explain why the people of

georgia should send her back to the senate. so she has continued to misrepresent my record she has lied not only on me but on jes jesus. everybody is clear about what that passage is about in matthew. you can't serve two masters and she should've listened to the lesson. maybe she wouldn't be so focused on herself, she would be think about the people she is supposed to represent. i intend to center the concerns of the ordinary people that i've been running into all across the state particular he enrolled georgia. russ.kelly loeffler: i would lio respond. russ: were out of time i apologize that you will have a time for closing statement pre-that's all the time we offer questions. the candidates have 60 seconds for closing statement. senator loeffler you get to go first. kelly loeffler: thank you everyone who turned into this important debate, you can see

what that state, there's two divisions for our country, mind, the mayor can dream, my opponent socialism. this is what's on the ballot january 5, the american dream, i was born and raised on a farm and group working in the field i built my career and became a job creator right here in georgia and i have been blessed to live the mayor can dream. but chuck schumer said it best, now we take georgia then we change america. they would increase our taxes, open our borders, socializer healthcare in my opponent radical liberal rafael warnock is his agent of change, someone has falsely used the bible to attacker military. the bible never said that we serve -- that you can't serve god in the military. he's attacked a police officers, he wants to fundamentally change america into a socialist country. i'm not quite to let that happen i'm working hard for every single georgian and i'm kelly loeffler and i'm asking for your vote on january 5, thank you and may god bless america.

russ: thank you, senator, reverend warnock your closing statement. raphael warnock: thank you so much and thank you to everybody who tuned into my eye rafael warnock, i one of 12 children in my family and i'm number 11, the first college graduate. listen, these are dark and difficult times. amidst the thick fog of this pandemic and the economic turn down even in this season of joy it's hard for people to find joy. i think about my dad in a moment like this. god bless his memory. he is to wake me up every morning at dawn and say get ready, get dressed, put your shoes on. it was dawn and so it was morning so it was still dark. it is dark right now. but morning is on the way. it is our job georgia to put our shoes on and get ready. there are those who are engaged of the politics of division, they have no vision so they engage in division.

tomorrow is the last day to register, tell everybody you know to make a vote plan because healthcare is on the ballot, workers are on the ballot, voting rights is on the ballot, criminal justice reform is on the ballot and if you give me the honor of representing you in the u.s. senate i'm thinking about george everything will they. russ: thank you very much. robert and senator. before we conclude this debate everyone involved since her condolences to the loeffler campaign into the family and staff member of hair harrison deal who was killed in a car accident, or thoughts are with you and their family. we are very, very sorry. election day is january 5, absentee voting has begin in early voting begins january 14, thanks to the candidates in the panel for participating, well done, thanks to the atlanta press club and public broadcasting for arranging this debate. i am russ spencer with fox five in atlanta, thank you for joining us debate series. good night. ♪. martha: that is th debate betwen

kelly loeffler and rafael warnock, the pastor at the ebenezer baptist church where martin luther king jr. was a pastor as well. back now with final thoughts on what we saw tonight and this really important race nationally and as well of course in georgia. dana perino joins us and then, glad to have you with us. dana, let me start with you, what was your reaction, how do you think both of these candidates did tonight? >> i think rafael warnock obviously as he is a pastor he has a really nice way of speaking, he's a good communicator and i think he held his own pretty well, i do think towards the end when he would not tak denounced the issue of t packing that to me reminded me of when joe biden in the last presidential debate talked about a transition from oil and that gave the trump campaign fuel to

run on in the exit polling shows, it did help the trump campaign in places like pennsylvania and texas along the border region and in some of the other places people are concerned about. i think kelly loeffler was very rehearsed but what did she want to stick, radical leftist raphael warnock. if you want to wait thinking anything about that debate, that's what you would probably walk away with that's what she wanted people to know him as. martha: it was pretty clear that the way she wanted to present him over and over and over again. and he basically called her rich and out of touch, that was his line in the way that he perceives her. who do you think came out ahead tonight? >> i think we can talk about who wins or loses the debate but what really matters is what you take away from it and what i took away from this is that when it comes to the issues related to culture war significant battle that matter in the u.s.

senate, raphael warnock is no different from any of the other democratic members were not referenced. i think his answers when it came to abortion, his non-answer to the supreme court is a signal of that, i think the culture war issue is going to matter even more in the coming weeks especially as we see the other point is being made by joe biden or potentially made by president-elect joe biden. one other thing we need to point out, the questions that were being asked in this debate were insults to softballs. this was ridiculous, the fact that we don't know the answer to some of these big questions is a real problem. martha: it was interesting format, quick thought on the debate itself, just a couple of seconds. we have to leave it there. thank you guys, good to both of you with us. coming up next, life liberty and even at night and "the next revolution" was steve tilden and at ten pete hegseth, for the

second annual christmas tree lighting live from fox square in new york city, thank you all for watching tonight dana and ben on this, we head to the week, i'll see you tomorrow night 7:00 p.m. eastern for the story, have a good night everybody. here is mark live in ♪ mark: hello america i'm mark within and this is "life, liberty and levin" and i'm glad you are with us. fraud in an election but what is fraud? is criminal fraud, civil fraud. what happens when a state abandons completely its constitution? the supreme court of that state conducts itself flawlessly? is that fraud? i want to talk to you about the battleground estate called the commonwealth of