catching up on a couple things, we are waiting for the house hearing. they are deciding if they should invoke the 25th amendment, julie, whether or not mike pence should say that the president is incapable of carrying out his duties. that's a long shot. >> julie: and if that doesn't happen nancy pelosi will present an article of impeachment tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> the house rules committee is debating a bill calling to remove president trump from office. this is a few hours ahead of a vote pressuring president mike pence to use the 25th amendment to go through food. this comes as house democrats are barreling towards the second impeachment vote with only days left on president trump's term. and if vice president pence doesn't comply with congress to invoke the 25th moment, democrats plan to start debate on impeachment tomorrow morning with the politically exposed to move a pushback even from some democrats who including senator joe manchin take a listen to what he said.

>> they know the votes aren't there. it's so ill-advised for joe biden to be coming in, trying to heal the country and be the president of all the people when they are going to be so divided and fighting again. let the judicial system do its it's a bedrock of who we are. let that take its place. let the investigations go on. but the evidence come forth and then we'll go forth from there. there is no rush to do this impeachment now. we can do it later if they think it's necessary. >> that's one idea but meanwhile constitutional law scholar alan dershowitz who may end up representing the president says democrats have no interest in getting the president if you're hearing. >> hears that tactic. what the democrats want to do is simply impeach him. they don't want to actually bring him to trial. they just want to have accusation hanging over him. it would be like a prosecutor indicting somebody for a serious crime and then saying we're not going to give you a trial or you

can prove your innocence. >> you're watching outnumbered. i am gillian turner in washington. here with us, host of kennedy on fox business, kennedy. senior editor at "the federalist" mollie hemingway. radio host leslie marshall and joining us today media and politics columnist for the hill, joe concha. welcome, everybody. president trump spoke to reporters very briefly this morning before he boarded air force one on his way out the door of the white house, he is heading to alamo texas. he tried to flip the script, interestingly, the entire city of washington has been talking about how dangerous the president is. i guess to the nation over the last week including house speaker nancy pelosi. he said he is is a security threat. he said you know it's actually dangerous is this second round call for impeachment during my last week in office. what do you think of that?

>> i think he's exactly right and terms of, let's look at it this way. the primary argument around impeaching president trump is that there needs to be accountability for the horrific siege that we sought the capital six days ago. but as the house speaker knows and is senator joe manchin and other democrats know, though votes simply aren't there. it's not even close. this is clearly a political exercise to get other republicans on the record for future campaign ads whether they voted to impeach the president or not or in the senate convict him and if they don't vote to convict him, therefore they advocated what happened the capital last week which is utterly ridiculous. joe biden can stop this effort. he can't do it on an official basis of course. he's the president-elect and this is congress. he could put out a statement saying we are only eight days away from my inauguration. i've been speaking about unity since we can't remove the president and true accountability can't be achieved

anyway, nancy pelosi, please stop this effort. that would go a long way in terms of if joe biden is really talking about unity and bring in the country together, those deeds and actions would certainly support it. i've a feeling that ain't going to happen. >> gillian: what the president-elect has done is try to stay out of the fray when it comes to specifically the 25th amendment. or invoking an article of impeachment. kennedy, he was asked about this directly a couple days ago. he was asked point blank, you know, do you plan to support democrats push in the house for an article of impeachment he basically said no comment. >> kennedy: yeah. he's going to skirt an answer as long as possible. number one because he should want the focus to be on his incoming administration. he should want the focus to be on what his agenda is, what his ideas are. and the nominees that he has put forth in making a case for them.

this current president is going to cast a long shadow over the biden presidency if they are not careful. i don't know anyone who wants that. it's great to have a foil. it's great to have someone to blame but if you're going to unify the country, you better do that with some solid ideas in an action plan that quickly brings relief to people and businesses that are truly suffering. this is a great way of not talking about that stuff. this is a great way of not having to come up with solutions or make difficult choices. we can't -- i think when jim clyburn talks about potentially impeaching the president, having a senate trial 100 days after the start of the biden administration, what they are really saying is they are giving themselves a runway, a ramp to start the administration so they can then ignore the president. >> gillian: leslie, what do you think about that, particularly this idea of not --

the house doing something to sort of condemn president trump now and putting the idea on ice and trying to rig up a hearing and then a trial and the whole jamboree of impeachment. sometime after joe biden's first 100 days. do you think that's a responsible move by democrats tried to let the transition play out or is that the calculating, devastating political move to try to keep president trump's notoriety alive and in the spotlight. >> leslie: i think it's neither. the president himself has said he's partially to blame to what happened on january 6th to leader mccarthy. the nation -- >> gillian: leslie, sorry to interrupt you. the president changed his mind. >> leslie: when we look at the process, when you read the constitution, it's very clear that it's the responsibility of congress to check. that's why we have our branches

of government. to keep the executive branch in check. this is their constitutional responsibility. i as a democrat who voted for president-elect joe biden don't want this to overshadow uniting the country, uniting this ti. wants to do especially the covid vaccines going forward. at the end of the day, we cannot say to president trump and i don't care if he's a democrat or republican, to our nation, to the perpetrators, that this is okay. there has to be accountability. there has to be responsibility. i believe that's what they are doing. we really don't know, if you talk to different legal scholars, if, in fact, anything after donald trump is no longer president can be done. with regard to impeachment. we know that they have the votes to impeach in the house, not to find him guilty in the senate or prevent him from running again in the future. spoon that's a good point. i want to clarify. president trump spoke about this just an hour ago this morning.

he said that upon reflection what he said last wednesday, his speech to the crowd of supporters near the capital, near the white house, was actually great. there were no problems with it. to quote him he said it was "totally appropriate." he is pushing back on what leader mccarthy said. someone is going to need to clarify what the president thinks about that speech at some point. mollie i want to come to you. a lot of democrats are saying if the presence last week in office, he should be focused on this parens presidential transition, continuity of government, national security. instead we find them in a position where he's essentially not speaking to his vice president. not speaking out to defend the calls for him to be killed. not speaking to the senate majority leader. this amounts to a dereliction of presidential duty during the last week. what do you say? >> mollie: vice president and president reportedly had a productive meeting the white house yesterday.

part of that is not what's happening. everything that the democrats are doing here right now enabled by the media is with regard to few days, it's crazy.al of a it's insane. itthis country right now is that many americans believe that there are two systems. one for the elite and one for the normal people. i can't think of anything that would be done right now that could be worse to convince people that that's true than overreaction or improper reaction really what's going on. we have a year where millions of people have lost their jobs, lost their livelihoods, had their businesses burned down, have calls for destruction the rule of law, defunding the police. the summer of rage which was enabled by many democrats which was, you know, kamala harris put out a link to bailout the people rioting in minneapolis were dozens of people were killed, cops were dragged through the

streets. nobody cared. nobody cared. it took months to get condemnation from democrats. to have people say now and there's been this escalation to the capitol, only nash people do anything in response is so unserious and so damaging. i think it's a good moment, republicans are already there. they condemned what was happening this summer and they condemned what happened on wednesday and i was a time to bring media democrats on board for mutual condemnation of all violation of rule of law in all this violence, political violence, and that's what should be done by adults who actually care about the country and actually healing things. everything else here is such a stupid distraction. it's just unserious. there are national problems, international problems that would be great to see some leadership from anyone. >> gillian: plenty of problems to go around. we will continue to touch on impeachment, the 25th amendment throughout the hour. president-elect joe biden is taking heat for saying that he's going to prioritize aid for

businesses based in part on americans' race and gender. critics questioning whether that's fair or appropriate. we will discuss the backlash. top democrat likening to republican senators to terrorists. he says they could be put on the no-fly list over last week's riot on capitol hill. plus, parler not backing down. s fighting back with a lawsuit. secretary of state mike pompeo sharing a warning about big tech. stay with us. >> censorship, wokeness, political correctness all points in one direction, authoritarianism as moral righteousness. if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, inflammation in your eye might be to blame. looks like a great day for achy, burning eyes over-the-counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. ha! these drops probably won't touch me.

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>> kennedy: parler, the social media app popular with conservatives is suing amazon. amazon cut off parler after google and apple banned the apps from its story saying that the company had not done enough to moderate violent threats made by its users. the parler ceo says it's gone beyond the threat to his company. watch. >> i've seen people say it's scary but i've seen people participating in the 5 minutes of hate and kind of egging it on and cheering and it's disgusting. people threatening my life. i can't go home tonight. this is not just our civil liberties. they can shut down a billion-dollar company. >> kennedy: secretary of state mike pompeo yesterday speaking at the headquarters of voice of america warning that big tech is moving down a dangerous path. >> censorship, wokeness

political correctness all points in one direction, authoritarianism cloaked as moral righteousness. similar to what we are seeing at twitter and facebook and apple in too many university campuses today. it's not who we are. it's not who we are as america americans. and it's not what voice of america should be. it's time that we simply put woke-is him to sleep. >> kennedy: all right. joe, are we on the path toward authoritarianism? is it comply or die? and if you don't give and you'll be canceled. >> oh, yeah, we are on that road. that whole situation deserves examination. it was deemed a threat because the accusation was from amazon and google and apple is that people on that platform helped organize the siege until and as it was happening.

glenn greenwald, one of the few and last independent true journalists out there, he poses a good question and asks, do you know how many active parler users were arrested in connection to the cgs far? zero. none. so this clearly was okay, conservative now have come of this was on the most popular apps on apple, growing platform and we need to eliminate it. even twitter, with their whole excuse around banning trump for life, remember he was suspended after the siege. they led him back on and then he said i'm not going to attend the inauguration which i guess twitter, through core breaking and mind-reading, said it was actually a message to extremists that they had the green light to attack the inauguration which you can say is definitely going a bit too far. i remember one situation and i will leave it here. there was a seattle sonics nba play-by-play announcer, grant napier. he wrote in may on twitter, all he wrote was "all lives matter,

every single one." he got fired just for putting out that sentiment that i think we all could agree with. if we saw this last year. forget the siege. way back when we saw cancel culture really taking off and now you see people emboldened when it's going to get really dangerous, even if you say you're a trump supporter and you say it on social media, you would probably lose her job over that if an employer deems that too offensive. >> kennedy: mollie, if amazon really had an issue with parler and i think it's fair to say to this platform, you have to somehow self policing have a system of moderation and move forward. they were given no warning. what do you think that does for their lawsuit against amazon and does parler survive it? >> mollie: i think we should be very suspicious of everything that these big tech oligarchs are claiming about why they're shutting people down. the russian dissident electing of all he said he knows they

don't actually care about death threats because he's been at the receiving end of death threats and, you know, these big tech oligarchs have done nothing about it. this is just a means to destroy opposition. part of that is competitive opposition, obviously if twitter wanted to take out donald trump they knew that most people are -- a lot of people on twitter. people from different sides engaging with each other and if you remove that very important thing that made twitter so great and go to another place, you have to kill parler so people, so you can retain your competitive advantage. all of these companies doing everything the same day show they were colluding together to retain their power and control. it's partly about business definite about a natural right, free speech. these are things that we have the right to do as americans. part of that is the law part of it is our culture and we've never seen such an onslaught from unfortunately democrats, people in the media, big media, and big tech.

it's a serious threat to the republic going forward and it's all hands on deck that needs to be fought against. whether it's political action in congress or state attorneys general or lawsuits or people saying that we need to stand strong against this right now. >> kennedy: a lot of people are saying that. a lot of voices saying that. my problem with it leslie, i have an issue with prohibition in general because when you have prohibition, you have depend pem swing in the opposite election. when you try to stop immigration, more people come over the border. when you try and stop speech, you're only going to fan the flames. >> leslie: i would agree. i don't really like censorship. it makes me cringe. i don't like the words authoritarianism and i hope are not heading towards that but if we look at these companies and their companies and to mollie's point, i don't think they colluded. it's more monkey see, monkey do.

but at the end of the day these are companies that are quite frankly damned if they do, damned if they don't. if they have any speech from anyone, radicals on the left or the right out there that provoke or incite violence, they can be sued. but their private company. they have a right to do this. the lawsuit with regard by parler for the sherman act, it might be pretty strong and it comes back to section 2 and whether the plaintiff can prove that the competition with amazon and what amazon has done is prevent them from having their business and taking their business elsewhere. speaking of taking their business elsewhere, consumers obviously can do that as well. >> kennedy: but they really can't win the platform where they are choosing as an alternative to shut down without warning. we will see. clearly there is still a need for this digital conversation. more and more big company suspending political donations

after last week's events in washington. why some are targeting only republicans. the uproar after a major business magazine threatened to blacklist companies that hire former trump officials and why some are calling president-elect biden's plan to help small business reverse racism. that's coming out. >> our priority is a black latino asian, native american, women-owned businesses and finally having equal access to resources needed to reopen and rebuild. [ engine rumbling ] ♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪ uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain. [ beeping ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

♪ yeah, it's time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ after we make grilled cheese, ♪ ♪ then we're eating grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ because it's time. ♪ yeah. ♪ time for grilled cheese. >> gillian: a growing number of corporations suspending political contributions after a pro-trump mob stormed the capitol. marriott, amazon at&t and other giants coming off donations to lawmakers who tried to block the electoral college result. hallmark is asking republican senators josh hawley and roger

marshall for the companies money back. i want to do left and right side of this issue with mollie and leslie. isn't it true that the members and senators who did object to electoral college results were exercising their constitutional rights as democrats did during the 2016 election? >> mollie: not just 2016. democrats have objected to election results were republicans won in every election of my adult lifetime. even in the last 20 years you have people who are still in congress who spoke up in defense of objectors, including nancy pelosi. the problem here is not doing the objecting or even if corporations want to do something of his nature. the problem is the twisted way in which they do it. blm rioters, it the injured 60s secret service people at the white house, they set buildings on fire, caused all sorts of destruction and damage.

a lot of corporations gave money to blm. you had the mayor of d.c. paint defund the police and black lives matter plasma. then you have this situation which thankfully everybody is condemning what happened wednesday and then you have this reaction from corporations. it's not tenable and i think republicans are going to have to join together to make sure that corporations stop doing so much to assist leftist ideology in the democratic party. it's very dangerous. corporations are also contributing, everyone is contributing to the back moment that we are in. corporations are no exception and they need to be put on notice that this is not helping how they're behaving. >> gillian: leslie, do you agree corporations should not be piling on here and that they should sort of state a political? in the company's defense who are making these moves to pull money from republicans, including josh hawley, they are saying these folks helped inside violence that resulted in a riot on wednesday and people were injured. people died.

do companies not have a right to vote with their money? >> leslie: absolutely. people think it's about politics. quite frankly they give money, many companies, democrats and republicans. as corporations they want political favor when these people make decisions on legislation that will directly affect their bottom line. that's what they are doing here. i think sometimes we as americans forget that the economy as a global economy and we have people internationally that are outraged, horrified by what they saw last week. these companies don't want to lose consumers, not just in the united states but worldwide throughout the world and that's why they are doing this and quite frankly some voters should be happy because there will be less corporate money and some of the politicians' pockets. at the end of the day for them it's not about free speech. it's not about a democrat or. it's about green. cold hard cash. >> gillian: we have to get in this other story. "forbes" magazine with a warning

to businesses that are considering hiring current or former trump administration officials. take a look. photos of white house press secretary kayleigh mcenany, her predecessor sarah sanders and stephanie grisham and kellyanne conway. forbes media chief content officer writes "let it be known to the business world, hire any of trump's fellow staff, forms will assume anything that your company talks about is a lie. we will scrutinize, general tech and investigate with the same skepticism we would approach a trump tweet. joe, i will give you the floor. i want to point out "forbes" magazine seems to have people in their crosshairs people doing communications work. didn't see policy people. they are focusing on spokespeople and communications people. >> joe: because past press secretaries never spun

narratives for the bosses. >> gillian: and where's sean spicer? where's sean spicer? >> joe: i think i saw him and that story also. >> kennedy: he was in there. >> joe: clearly after after his performance in "dancing with the stars." the best unintentional comedy you'll ever see, the same columnist, the media chief content officer, whatever that is, said that he is not advocating cancel culture. he insisted that this is not what he's doing. except this is exactly what he's doing. it's kind of a pattern that we've seen over the last four years explored and that's a shift ofisms where we go from journalism tobias to outright activism. when a writer at a publication since we are going to track and make sure that these people can't earn a living post trump just because they were spokespeople within the organization. it's a bridge too far hundred guests.

>> gillian: kennedy, coming from forbes, do you think it's more about their own hiring practices or do you think it's more about encouraging other media outlets, other american companies to steer clear of these folks. >> kennedy: i think it's just gross. what's the point? to cancel these people into poverty? you're not going to be happy unless you see kellyanne conway in rags selling oranges on the side of the freeway? i don't understand what the aim is. i have to say, they've got a tremendously difficult job. the impossible was asked of all of these people. the fact that they were able to do what they do in the manner in which they did i think makes them even more attractive. it's like hiring a veteran. you want someone who's been through something very, very tough. even if they have been painted and wounded because chances are they will give you a great deal

of hard work and loyalty. i may not agree with some of the statements that they made on behalf of the administration. i think there are certainly times that they were stretching the truth. considering what was expected of them, i think they will all be fine. >> gillian: i want everybody to know i tried really hard not to laugh during the description of kellyanne conway. let's leave it there. next, joe biden taking heat over his plans to help businesses owned by minorities and women. some critics are saying this plan in itself is racist. an about-face from new york's governor when the virus and why the plan is raising eyebrows. that's next. and still going for my best. even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib... not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm reaching for that.

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>> gillian: president-elect joe biden facing backlash after announcing his administration will prioritize aid for businesses struggling the pandemic partly based on race and gender. some are calling the plan itself racist. here's biden. watch. >> our priority will be black, latino, asian, native american owned small businesses, women-owned businesses. finally having equal access to resources needed to reopen and rebuild. >> kennedy: the president-elect getting blowback on social media including fox senior political analyst brit hume calling the planned racial determination plain and simple. joe concha, what do you make of

this plan. you are a white man. you are screwed. >> joe: that's true. [laughs] family is originally from spain but i am a white guy for all intents and purposes. call me jose going forward. let me read from joebiden.com. this is his mission statement. he says i pledge to be a president who seeks not to divide by two unified. who doesn't see red and blue states but united states and who will work with all my heart to win the confidence of the whole people, for that is what america is about. the people. apparently it's for about some sections of not all people. speaking of white guys, friend of mine owns a restaurant not too far for me and it took him years just to get on the plus side as far as making a profit. prepandemic. it's one of the hardest businesses to succeed in. he may have to close may be in a week or two because it's winter and he can't do outdoor dining

anymore and it's just almost impossible for him to survive so that business that he built, is he out of joe biden's range as far as who gets help and who doesn't? breaking it down by class is the ultimate definition of panderi pandering. >> kennedy: not even blinking bg it down by class, it's more overt than that. i thought it's the opposite of what we're trying to teach our children. >> gillian: i was going to say that if you're surprised by this policy will the president like biden announced, i think you have to never listen to a word he said of the past year, maybe even make it eight years. he has made identity politics core, a cornerstone of his entire not only his campaign but the way he has built his administration. he was very up front. he committed to choosing a vice president nominee who was a woman before he even laser

denominated. he has made a point of committing to the most diverse cabinet in history. making no bones about the fact that he wants minorities of every stripe representative. i think if you're surprised by the fact that he's going to plan an end implement domestic policy based around the same considerations, you have been asleep. >> kennedy: leslie, how is it not racist? >> leslie: i'm going to tell you how it's not racist. before joe biden was elected, congress was proposing $284 billion, 60 of which would be set aside under donald trump's administration for women and minority companies. the reason is with the round of ppp that came, they got shafted. they are still getting shafted. look at the numbers. job losses, 140,000. what industries? leisure and hospitality. who suffered most? women and minorities. joe biden is not going to give

you money, joe, and the white guys, he's saying we need to help those mom-and-pop organizations run by women and minorities to have equal opportunity to level the playing field. it isn't racism. it's unity. >> joe: just say all people, say were going to help everybody and not break it down by race. >> leslie: looking at disturbing funds to certain segments of the small business owners in our country, especially women and minorities because they were passed over the last time ppp funds were given out. they didn't get them. >> kennedy: a lot of big corporations did. let's bring mollie in. >> mollie: it is of course racist to discriminate for or against people on the basis of their race. it is sexist to do the same on the basis of sex and it's completely ridiculous and it

seems like people don't understand that in this country you can be a black owned business and higher white people or vice versa and so we forget how so many people are beneficiaries of business ownership and that it doesn't break down along racial or sexual lines. we are in a horrible economic situation in the way out is not through anything other than letting people get back to work and letting people thrive. we had so many gains for minority business welders and just minority wage growth in the last four years. it wasn't by government dictating who would be winners and losers. it was by letting people work, letting people thrive, taking off those regulatory so hard to go from poor to rich in this country and that's what we're going to need to do in the years to come and unfortunately this is a horrible sign that biden and unfortunately democrats don't have any clue about how to get us out of our bad economic situation at this moment.

>> kennedy: great point. you remove those barriers to entry, everyone, everyone succeeds. new followed from the capitol hill riots by a top democrat. senators ted cruz and josh hawley could be put on the no-fly list. and after multiple criticism over his pandemic shutdowns, and new york governor andrew cuomo suddenly pulling a 180 despite a sharp rise in cases and slow vaccine rollout. >> we simply cannot stay close to until the vaccine is critical mass. the cost is too high. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa ...little things... ...can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla.

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>> kennedy: a few short weeks ago new york governor andrew cuomo was congratulating himself or his response to the coronavirus and fast-forward to yesterday when he changed his tune on lockdowns despite a sharp spike and confirmed coronavirus cases. to be cohesively cannot stay close until the vaccine hits critical mass. the cost is too high. we will have nothing left open. we must reopen the economy but we must do it smartly and safe

safely. >> kennedy: and you are just realizing this now. cuomo's reversal comes as he faces backlash over the states slower than expected rollout of the coronavirus vaccine. in recent weeks medical providers were even forced to throw out unused doses because of the states strict vaccination guidelines. jill, this is adding kerosene to the campfire. so many businesses are shuttering. some of the people are still hurting in new york. now you have a 51 question thing that you're supposed to answer online that's filled with glitches and confusion. now they are tossing out perfectly good vaccine because it's going bad. it's been a banner year for the governor of new york. >> joe: if governor cuomo to go back and watch his press conferences? i hope they say that they want their emmy momento.

cuomo advocating for shutting down restaurants and businesses yet still allowed -- saturday lives allowed to have in studio audiences. it's fine but broadway's close, restaurants, no thanks. i can't get over the fact that for whatever reason when cuomo does these press conferences, he doesn't seem to have any national reporters from cnn for example yelling questions at him like they do with desantis in florida about the failures he's had in terms of xyz around the vaccine rollout for instance. for whatever reason he's not under that scrutiny from the national media while the republican governor from florida is. go figure. >> kennedy: we should always mention his horrific response to the coronavirus pandemic, forcing covid patience into nursing homes which kill thousands and thousands of elderly new yorkers. it's amazing, i am watching this and thinking you are just now

realizing that your restrictions are killing businesses and hurting people? how did he not see this months ago? >> mollie: it's crazy making to watch something like this happen. people were putting forth arguments like we cannot shut down the entire economy because the cost of that is way too great in terms of the lives that are destroyed or since transmission doesn't happen in a particular way at schools, it's evil to keep children from schools. the response to people saying these things was that they were monsters of that they were evil and how could they -- they were telling grandma and whatnot. here now finally, i guess it's good that cuomo is finally sounding like how some of these other governors were sounding in other states. it's way too late. but at least we have those people who didn't show leadership, whether they were in florida or south dakota or texas, trying to balance all the concerns of their constituents. >> kennedy: very good, excellent discussion. democrats unleashing against

g.o.p. senators ted cruz and josh hawley over their objections to the electoral college results. one leaving house democrats like inning the senators to terrorists and what he says should happen to them now. that's coming up. stay with us. ♪ limu emu and doug.

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this. what hawley did and what cruz did was horrible. >> let's not skirt the issue. he does go on to say that he believes both senators, hawley and cruz, both qualify as domestic terrorists. >> that is quite a statement. that is something he'll have to absolutely prove. you can say what they did was horrible. i think it would be a stretch to say it was a crime. you also have to prove intent here. you don't want to diminish the word terrorist. i think that's very, very important. you can disagree with their actions. you can say that it was completely politically driven and it was a horrible miscalculation. i still think that there's a big, big gulf between that and crowning someone a terrorist. >> leslie, what say you? >> i actually agree with kennedy

on that. to say somebody is a terrorist. i do believe both of these individuals violated their constitutional oath. they did not defend us from all enemies, foreign and domestic and their rhetoric, fanning the flames of laws regarding this election did help fan the flames. bottom line here, it's not congress, but the fbi who determines who is or who is not on the no fly list, that the tsa then enforces. we should know every elected individual, even the president, is not above the law. but regarding calling them terrorist, that is not what i would call them. i would say the rhetoric helped incite what we saw on january 6th. >> joe, you've got ten seconds. >> 2005, 31 senate democrats did exactly what hawley and cruz did. this is obviously an overreach exploiting the breach at the capitol which was, by all accounts, horrific.

>> this is not what a free and fair country does, this type of attempt to silence all political opposition is just dangerous and people, adults in d.c. need to start acting like adults and people need to start pushing back against this escalation that's happening on the hill. >> we have to leave it there. thanks to everybody at home. thanks to our virtual house, joe, leslie, kennedy and mollie. here is martha in for harris on outnumbered overtime. >> thanks, everybody. we begin with political fire storm as house democrats move closer to impeaching president trump for a second time, which would mark a first in our nation's history. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm martha mccallum in for harris faulkner. democrats calling on vice president mike pence to invoke the 25th amendment, which we heard from the president, he is not planning to do.

if that was done, it would ultimately remove the president from office. we are learning pence will not do that. house democrats plan to forge ahead with their impeachment vote in the house tomorrow charging the president with incitement in terms of the riot that happened january 6th at the u.s. capitol. democrats do appear to be divided on the timing o