you've got a big one of them. erin would've been the proper choice. everybody thank you, it was a great show and again today, that does it for us. on behalf of of rachel, and kristin, the fox report star's now. >> one america, this is life liberty and we crucially important program tonight. i guess nicholas wade, the question is the origin of covid-19. this is brought to my attention by a friend of mine. one of the smartest people i've

ever met and is been in this program. avhe said you got read this article you need to have mr. wade in your program. to talk about this and that is the origin of the coronavirus. and mr. wade is an investigative science writer and family new york times science writer and a formally writer with nature and science we know some things about these subjects. i want to thank you for coming on the program. the first paragraphs are every piece which is published in something called the bulletin of the scientist so sounds like is quite legitimate. first paragraph says that the covid-19 pandemic has destructive lives the world over for more than a year and it was soon reached $3m people for the death toll if the origin remains uncertain. the political agendas of governments and scientists have generated take clouds which the

main stream press seems helpless to discuss. so i want to through some of the sow is understandable to some of us, some of the names and institutions and you can fill it in for us if you don't mind. so let's begin with identifying some ofwh the institutions and actions. when exactly is the national institute of infectious disease in washington dc. tguest: is a bunch of the national institutes of health and awards to scientists in the u.s. and abroad who studied it matters of interest to allergy and infectious diseases in particular sports research into animal viruses that seem to have the potential of going into the humans including the best, like these coronavirus'. mark: is a big bureaucracy. it is a heavily funded

bureaucracy dino printed. guest: i know for sure. but the components of the nih naturally have a lotey of moneyo get out and find lights of researches. hundreds of millions of dollars upon approaching a billion . mark: is a director of the national institute . >> that is dr. anthony fauci . >> thirty-seven years. so what is that wuhan institute of biology . guest: the leading center for studying coronavirus is in china. and it is in wuhan and the chief scientist there who is an expert on viruses. mark: others have called the meth lady. that's how experts deal with the bad viruses . guest: she's been collecting these viruses from the caves in southern china. ahang out .

guest: ralph is, maybe a verydis researcher and he trained the doctor in china in the genetically engineering of coronavirus this. and he's a leader in his field . >> and going through this, the market people to know, so that we understand the individuals that you write about, we understand the institutions and we can draw more information haabout them and was been taking place here. what is function sort geo f research . >> this is anything that you do to a virus that increases is pathogens.pa so it's possible to do the genetic engineering to make changes in the genome and to add properties so that it didn't

have before. and that is gain of function. so that you making more pathogenic. mark: is a controversial part of research making them more think of quite a. guest: oh yes. because of the obvious danger. so for periods of time, until 2017, there is funding in such research. in the moratorium was lifted it and replaced so that. [inaudible]. to report into the government predict. mark: what is the theory behind research likeum this, making viruses morning and for legal particularly lethal for human beings. guest: all sounds crazy. but the rationale is that many of these viruses areo going to eventually took over animals to humans anyway. was that cross a couple of mutations allows them to make the job. and so if we could define those

mutations in advance, we will get a jump on the virus. naturally and that would give us a leg up in trying to predictat and prevent future epidemics. that's the rationale for gaining this function of these viruses. mark: so basically create more lethal viruses from the original virus so that you can try to figure out what to do with it should become more lethal and jump into human beings. is that about right . guest: that is right printed on exception is you're not working with the original virus . often swap into it written pieces from related viruses that may be able to do something better and spred the range of the host that the virus can attack . mark: in thists chinese experts scientists at that wuhan lab say she set out to create coronavirus with the highest

possible infectivity upon human cells. this is what she is known to do guest: she not known just for that, she is known for general expert on corunna viruses. mark: i'm assuming that if you're going to be messing around with the viruses that there is some level of safety at the slab and you say there are . that's designated from bs l1 - bsl for in the fourth is the most restrictive it. such as the ebola virus and that wuhan institute has a new lab in the state of readiness alarmed this date inspector who visited much of her work being a function of coronavirus however was not performed in the highest safety level. it was not dsl three, it was dsl

two. and you get the input fromex an expert by the name of professor albright and he says that it is clear that some or all of this work is being performed using them safety standard biosafety level two and level of standard in a dentist office. in a dentist office. will that raises some issues business her. guest: yes it does. there a lot of general issues because these are internationally rules for working on corunna viruses partied and if you are working on to corunna viruses that cause them to previous academics besides one epidemic the murders, you have to research but if you are working on in the other coronavirus, you could work in dsl to some the doctor was following international rules. it's just that to outsiders it

seems as a logical it either because if you look at a particular dangerous coronavirus in dsl to come your safety precautions and be inadequate and way will escape. mark: they are working on viruses and the wuhan lab and i am putting this in plain english. viruses that could become more killer or lethal viruses to human beings. the level of safety in this lab, one - two - three - four, the forbing's highest it is a two and i want to ask you a couple of other questions related to this. who is peter. guest: so peter, as an important roll the story. he is the president of organization in new york. call the eagle health alliance. the main concern is to study animal viruses around the world.

my coming to the human pathogens. and night a grant that did not get the grant directly to the doctorate at the wuhan institute . give it to peter. so he is the prime investigator oof this and he himself contracted the coronavirus. sue and limited the street because is important to the market people partied our the officials infectious disease office director gave a grant to this organization eagle health alliances of new york run by peter. they in turn give a grant to the doctor and the wuhan lab to do exactly what . guest: will her task which we know because the abstracts of the grant are on public record.

tells us to explore what made that spike protein, part of the coronavirus sticks out and attacks is target on human cells or whatever. over whatever animal it may be infecting. she was weeks for the range of been infectivity of the spike proteins. in the range of coronavirus is an she would sort them and one by one to a generic coronavirus backbone to see which is spike proteins made the virus most infectious. and that seems to have been her program. and that is what dr. fauci describes and enter t interviewe gave in the summer of entrant december 2019 just before the pandemic can't predict one summer funding this lab in china to a party in new york run by

peter and the purpose of this funding is to increase the lethality of corunna viruses. theoretically to try to figure out what to do with these more lethal viruses should these more lethal viruses become manifest. correct printed. guest: basically. first of all, is definitely the duty of dr. fauci to explore these viruses and see what kind of data is in there . because they had to generated the sars monomers epidemic. so subject to research for him. that was the overall purpose of the grant. it was not in itself to create the most dangerous fires, he was to explore the infective

possibilities in the natural viruses circulating in china. sue and it seems like the responsibility of a government agency to make sure that a lab that is getting ultimately federal dollars for the sort of research has a security and safety measures that are not having apparently the state department didn't think it did it partied. guest: that's a very interesting question. and probably we can't answer it quite yet. certainly if the virus escaped from a lab in the u.s. lab that was funded, i don't think we would immediately say, we are responsible for that rated thing for small, we would look to the director of 11 say following ola applicable safety rules and precautions. so i think the responsibility lies first and foremost with the lab director partied and then take one step back in this case,

your i've with dr. fauci. and just so in general terms, he would be the first to oversight person responsible for making sure that his grantees like doctor xi were working as a conditions. i could take one step further back in that it as i doctor xict was working in this same rules followed by biologists around the world so now you can argue will all of the biologist who set the use rules are too low to be easy on themselves they don't like sitting suiting up in a bubble suit for level four. that's what you see the pictures of xi is wearing one of these. probably not in the conditions she was working in. so maybe the responsibly and also it should be looked at in terms of what the biology as a

whole was recommending in terms of the safety levels. mark: absolutely were going to take a break but this is a whole world that the american people are unfamiliar with and perhaps the consequences of this killed millions of people worldwide and whalf million people in the united states. so we've got to know more about this as a people which is why i'm trying to figure out more and more of this. quite frankly, thanks to the knowledge that you've gained. when we return might want to know more about peter, the this groupho has funded the wuhan lab. and what actions he took and others may have taken when the pandemic began to spread it. we will be righto'l back. ♪i've got the brains you've got the looks♪

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♪ ♪ mark: welcome back i'm here with welcome back i am here with nicholas wade who the well-known writer about science however the new york times. interscience magazine in all expert sort of areas in a piece

that is really drawn my attention and the attention of a lot of people and something called the bulletin of the atomic science. so sounds . important. surgical look at this and i want to get into this and again further. peter, you said that he is the president of the echo health alliance in new york and he got a grant from our infectious disease federal department. kenny is a grant to fund some of the research at the wuhan lab. let me ask you this mr. wade. there's a obligation called lancet and what did they wind up doing in terms of when the pandemic first broke out. guest: will open it first broke out, there to reasonable scenarios for the argument of that. when it could've jumped naturally from animals and thee other it could've escaped from the lab. right in the middle of wuhan.

and right from the beginning, public perception natural emerges of the escape and that conception was very much shaped by the lab escape was a conspiracy theory and said the natural emerges caused the way this virus has emerged we should all stand shoulder to t shoulder with her chinese colleagues providing this disease. now as it turns out, it had been drafted and organized by the doctor who of course if it indeed escape from the wuhan lab, you might certainly piece perceived as being at fault. so he had a clear conflict of interest which is unfortunate not declared to the readers of the lancet. in the letter in this we declare no conflict of interest.

mark: is signed by a lot of the media as i recall, people of said that maybe that'll of the lab and so forth as you point out. some of them were dismissed as kooks. president trump said maybe we should look at the lab. maybe that had an influence in our country. who is kristin anderson predict. guest: is biologist, the author of second letter that was widely shaped in public. and the perceptions in the second letter said that the virus can clearly not have been eliminated natural emerges was the best solution. but in fact, there was no good scientific basis, he was assuring the public that is something that he could not know for sure. maybe something in general scientists my view should not do. mark: mcafee sciences, we have these sort of these groups of

scientists. we had 2025 actually we had 35 signatures and we had the second one from anderson come up with five signatures. the media basically use these letters as an argument that had to be from an animal jumped to the human beings. anything the media was so curious, people are getting ill, this is a pandemic printed if you work back at the new york times and so forth when you did you say to your editor, want to know how the heck this happened. guest: is very puzzling to me why the media headed by science journalists and the staff mainstream newspapers and networks did not run after the story. and by any standards was one of the biggest stories of the decade. i just don't know why they

didn't see through theee rather large holes inn the anderson and those other letters. they were so much shaping the public opinion. the science journalists are going along with the natural emerges. in the editors against and their advice went along as well. in addition, the whole issue became publicly politicized essentially by president trump saying that the virus escape from the wuhan lab. and not providing evidence. so i am . sure that my guess is that the intelligence service said to him, that they convincing and the biden administration, mainly that he cannot rule out the possibility of lab escapes and mr. trump i fear dropped all of those caveats in announced it as if it were an outright fact. so therefore everyone who voted

against president trump refused to consider it. and it seems to me to be so politicized. these political aptitudes prevailed and what should been sounded into curiosity . mark: a mistake to think about that. so in china, and if president of the united states had came out of the lab, then why would and i provided the data that you indicated in your article that the chinese had their own release to prove otherwise. suspect is in trump may have been tryingco to to build the communist chinese and providing that data. he said he came out of the lab,e all the chinese had to do is say when many, here's our data and here's access to our lab. is interesting that the chinese will not release any of the data related to this research. guest: yes and i think it is.

it's a knee-jerk reaction to suppress in this chinese to suppress the stars one epidemic. nonetheless i think what we see here is very systematic and resentful is cover up and that all of the records at the wuhan institute, the databases and information has been closed down. i think the trickle information of the chinese have left out is been mostly falls are designed to mislead. mark: we will be wreck hundred right back. ♪ ♪♪

♪ ♪

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so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. >> good evening and welcome the "fox news" president biden me with the family of george floyd in the white house tuesday and is expected to be a somber occasion. the first anniversary floyd's death. earlier today, minneapolis or floyd was killed when a police officer pressed his knee on floyd's neck, there was a rally. several family members were there as well as reverend help sharpton another civil rights leaders. secretary of state anthony is condemning for forcing ryan air just to land in his country so the government authorities the journalists on the fight and resident turned the actions the state sponsored terror acts.

the european leaders meeting tomorrow to discuss what actions to take an leaders are considering the air space man. now back to life liberty, you can always live under "fox news" .com for all of the headlines. mark: nicholas let me ask you a inquestion. you're watching what is going on and when you see your former profession, what caused you to write this article. very substantial article. because you to do this. guest: i picked up interest in this about a year ago when i read an article posted by a man who is a russian canadian and he wrote a great article showing in detail how this virus could have been manipulated. he said it could've been not was but it could've been. he started me to read anything that i could find about the

situation and accumulating evidence. i found i had not to write a very very long 11000 word article. mark: and what he think you're one of the few people who is curious enough and motivated enough to do this. there are people still the new york times and washington post and there are people in cbsn nbc and abc, you are talking about the virus that is killed in an enormous number of people in that shut down our economy, change the way beeman kevin and govern ourselves. in the media will pick up stories on things that there is no consequenced whatsoever and yet here you are, i guess you are semi retired near you are looking at this thing that i am going going to get to the bottom of this. you were in this industry a long time. guest: i think we see a sustained chinese propaganda effort at work.

more than that, is just blindness i can put it that way of our media where to polarized to see these big issues for their own sake without putting a political quest on them. everyone was for the blindsided it from the start. by these two letters that we just discussed into thinking that natural emerges with a possible solution. and in fact, you have to possible scenarios, we have no direct evidence for either of them. we don't know the origins. but we have to possible scenarios but if you look at all ofof the evidence and asked themselves, which scenario explains expect better. it seems to me at least the lab escape explains it a lot better. so that is where we are created printed sort of complicated conclusion to arrive at i can only assume the committee was

blindsided and they didn't know what necessary in the field and to take off their political classes and look at just the news. just old-fashioned now t they sprayed and they failed to at least present the two possibilities. mark: tend to think even though there is not a direct connection, don't you think the national institute and the infectious diseases on the national institutes of health that the market people that a lot of faith in and have a lot of reliance on an over the decades i know i have, the things the responsible to try to figure out how this happened. i hear nothing from those institutions about where they think this virus came from. other than they dismiss people who have game comments and so forth. it seems me that it's going to be the business of granting, i don't care it is three levels

below or whatever it is. at this point you know something horrific happened. shouldn't they have some responsibility to try to get to the bottom ofoo it printed including say, we are trying to get the data for the communist regime in china will give it to us. guest: i think that is an excellent point. it the national institutes of health and even more so the media, shortly havega the duty. if they couldn't to explained by the continued funding the research during a moratorium of the funding target are lots of questions that i wish the nih had addressed a year ago and it been upfront about and invited the public to comment and scrutiny and just laid out a new and try to see what had happened and that have not done that. and i just don't know why not.

sue and even though there are arguments as you point out for this function t making more letl for these viruses in order to address them should they turn out to be as lethal as they are it seems to be. if weol don't have something in place to watch these labs and we hold people accountable for what they are doing this in our side, then maybe this moratorium should be continued to predict 90 said something in your article that i want to get back to. use of this funding occurred even though there was a moratorium in place because of the polls. missing to me like it when it comes to this, throw to be no loopholes. so when we a come back, to ask u about it. we will be right back. incomparable design makes it beautiful. state of the art technology, makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2021 nx 300 for $349 a month for 36 months. experience amazing, at your lexus dealer.

i'm erin. -and i'm margo. lease the 2021 nx 300 for $349 a month for 36 months. we've always done things our own way. charted our own paths. i wasn't going to just back down from moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. psoriatic arthritis wasn't going to change who i am. when i learned that my joint pain could mean permanent joint damage, i asked about enbrel. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop permanent joint damage. plus enbrel helps skin get clearer in psoriatic arthritis. ask your doctor about enbrel, so you can get back to your true self. -play ball! enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores,

have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. visit enbrel.com to see how your joint damage could progress. enbrel. eligible patients may pay as little as $5 per month. mark: welcome back nicholas wade mark: welcome back, nicholas wade, this local that you write

about a piece, there's loopholes when it comes to this kind of funding research. there was a moratorium assume for a reason. to know why there was a moratorium. guest: because of the obvious danger of the research. mark: and yet there is a loophole. guest: there was a loophole into the regulation about the moratorium saying that they had of the government funding agency, not sure that meant doctor collins ahead of the nih or actually the head of the naia d, theov funding agency could invoke this twofold to continue funding the research. preventing any research in the reasons for that could be the national security extreme to public health. now we don't actually know if doctor collins did invoke from this loophole. for the research to have continued but now i assumed that

it might've been a question of definition off functioning because dr. fauci told the date nih that they had not a function of research. the description of what doctor xi seems to be part of that function so it he may be working to these alliances of arcing to a different definition therefore it's a matter of definition, not of the t loophole. mark: so this is fascinating, so dr. fauci is been on more shows that i can throw a brick at talking about the lack of curiosity by the media. all you have to do is read your article. hudson appoints to dr. fauci but it points to the moratorium in the loophole in the new point out that predict ahead of these agencies, either the head of nih from the overarching umbrella or the head of dr. fauci's agency to permit the grant to go towards this kind of a function

activity. i would like to consider myself relatively intelligent printed we need to get an answer to this. who was that, was it dr. fauci, was it collins. in a moratorium that is sent to moratorium is obviously a semantical issue seems to be that is something we need to know as well. this is a grave matter, perhaps discretion never have been given in the first place as a matter fact. and yet it was. guest: there's all these questions which we need to get answers. and as i said before, if they were dressed so many months ago but we do need to know whether the research continue to simply because the nih considered this function research. which actually seems to be in

position and if thato is the position then we need to see how this squares with everyone else's understanding of this function and in particular how squares with the language in the moratorium. it defines it very broadly is anything that makes a virus more pathogenic. mark: it is not hard to find out these trajectory. they signed often in the bureaucracy, and ultimately went to the top and then same with the third party in the media l area and how they conducted themselves. it would not take a lot of pickets out . really wouldn't. we are not china, we are at the united states and this is the sort of thing there are paper trails. there still seems to be no interest in this and instead we have somebody like doctor rand paul questioning dr. fauci of

the reporting is more about how they are fighting with each other rather than can we figure out exactly what is taking place here. and dr. fauci made unequivocably main statement statement that he did not and we do not fund this and at the wuhan lab, this is in a significant way, but they do. there's third parties that the federal government is giving money to the date use money for these entities that do in fact gain of function research. they would know more about that than you and i.i we are the outsiders. even though you've written a fantastic piece on this, they know if there giving money to gain function activity and if they don't, is not an incredible admission. guest: they should certainly layout their thinking. it is very obscure. these grants will start with

biologists who will review whether or not should be funding available and looking into the safety issues. in a way it is the system that is produced this proposal, not primarily nih but nonetheless, they should stay on the top of this decision-making apparatus and they should really be giving us answers to the questions you are raising it. mark: okay, we will be right back. (his voice) “baloney!” (automated voice) has joined the call. (voice from phone) hey, baloney here. i thought this was a no by-products call? land o' frost premium. fresh look. same great taste.

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mark: welcome back. mark: welcome back printed nicholas wade coming to point out new piece which is superior, estate look i can tell you exactly how this happened. but when isc can't he is one scenario seems more logical and rational than another. but when we go from here. guest: but i would like to see happen is more and more people to consider the evidence and follow the chain of arguments that's presented and come to a conclusion. and the evidence is more likely to escape from meth lab.

now a lot of people start saying that particular scientists, for the first time will put pressure on the chinese to bring out there evidence and tell us exactly what happened. that's a free ride because everyone is been saying it's been a natural emergence in the chinese to say nothing. it didn't have to say anything. if we put pressure on the chinese to tell us what really happened. then we would be a lot further forward and i think one could point out that this is maybe far too optimistic. there's a potential face-saving formula here which is the chinese they let the virus escape, as the u.s. the funded the research. so there's a little bit of blame to go around on both sides. and if they can agree to that, then maybe they could focus on try to find out how to make sure this kind of thing never happens again. mark: is there moratorium now, do you happen to know that.

and if not, shouldn't there be. guest: will we should discuss in london the people who say, it is very beneficial should make their case if they can and then someone may beho an independent body should tell a biologist what is the appropriate safety level preach kind of research. the biologist don't like to work in these l for the outcome is very cumbersome and everything takes twice as long freighted so ip think people babies hundred decide that the safety level should be significantly raised rated the kind of review that i think that we should have. mark: do you think the government will try to investigate this . did you think these agencies that are be looking out for health and welfare are going to want to be doing this because so far, best i can tell the am not moved an inch. guest: they been irresponsible

for theea biomedical research which is been one of the great glories of americans designs. and i think we should retain her faith in them to investigate themselves fully and fairly. layout what is happened. they seem to have been a party to made out to be a terrible oversight. and maybe they indeed escape from lab but then maybe look to them to try to find out what happened and put things right to make sure he does not happen again. mark: summons to start that process relatively soon. it's been over a year we've lost half million people could be nice to get to the bottom of that. you have made in contribution. to the public a dialogue here . you've open my eyes and eyes of the lot of other people. when thank you very much and god bless you sir. guest: thank you so much.

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mark: >> the inspector general, the department of justice and the united states congress needs to get to the bottom what caused this pandemic. joe biden has an hour discussion with the president for life, the dictator, china xi and never once brings this up. not once. that's really a disgrace. the government gets bigger and bigger. debt gets bigger and bigger. this administration is at war withe our energy and productio. you see the price of everything going up. you see the notion of critical

race theory, gender theory and gets more and more incompetent and more and more authoritarian. i want to encourage you if you can to encourage you to get a new book i wrote. it's probably the most important i have ever written. it's the longest book i have ever written and i think it's the most important book i have ever written. it's called american marxism. i would like to encourage as many of you as possible to preorderwo your copy because i want to inform as many americans as possible from sea to shining sea, the tea party, the reagan revolution, the trump revolution. what's happening to the country,

things you may not know, month who is behind it and the enemies behind it. we need to know that if we are going to defeat it. in the last chapter of the book i explain what you can do. we need to push back. i will see you next time on "life, liberty & levin." steve: good evening everyone welcome to "the next revolution" the profamily pro- community and pro- america did you see this when the vice president this week? get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do. how is that acceptable way for an elected leader to speak to people? biden as well get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do