>> mark: what a patriotic note to end on. thank you, you've done a terrific job, for topics, 4 minutes and back in a couple of hours with greg gutfeld. i will see you right back here tomorrow for fox news prime time but don't touch that dial because the one and only tucker starts right now. ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight," hope you had a great fourth of july with the ones you love them i wasn't too long ago that joe biden told us we might not be allowed to celebrate our own independence day because he had the power to decide that. had more and more control over our lives more than we ever had in american history but at the same time and that's where we

launched a streaming show on fox nation a longer format and it gives us much more time to talk to interesting people about where the world is going. today we are going to highlight just a few of them. a lot has changed in the last few years and the people who are watching carefully have changed their views too. charlie kirk is definitely in that category. the cofounder of turning point usa, one of the biggest conservative group, groups in the country. talk to him about his views of america have changed and about where the republican party and conservatives ought to be going. here's part of it. >> the people that dominated the conversation now that i realize were either heavily influenced by corporate america that one of the conservative movement to revert to abstracts and ideology

towards the kind of corporate tyranny which i would love to explore and this kind of thought also lends itself towards not necessarily away from partisanship but it gets towards a more nuanced and dare i say a more thoughtful conservative movement in the sense that we are unafraid to say you know what? may be i agree with bernie sanders immigration policy when he talked about in 2004. it may be mass immigration shouldn't be the most important things that conservatives should always stand for and russell kirk predicted this that as soon as the soviet union fell, the conservative movement in america would know what to do with themselves and he predicted this almost to the date and time so the berlin wall falls and this is what i call the four horsemen of the '90s and i was born in '93 so all of this was happening while i had basically no say about it where the generation that did so well, the older

baby boomers and the george h.w. bush irving kristol generation were in the prime of their political career and so what did they decide to do as soon as the berlin wall fell? on most of the date, russell kirk was right, mass immigration, george w. bush signed in this compromise with ted kennedy to bring in millions of people unrestricted into our nation of this great bargain of cheap labor and cheap boats so both sides got a win out of that. 1994, bill clinton signed nafta because we decided it would be a good idea to be industrialized the backbone of our nation and the 1999, one that might surprise people as a conservative i think we should find disgusting was the repeal when bill clinton went out of his way to pander to the financial services lobby that lent cheap money on the blurring of lines to commercial banking and investment banking and finally trying to enter into the

world trade organization in 2001 in all four of those things i believe was the conservative movement where the people in charge chasing momentary pleasure and not preserving the good with no commitment to permanence or trying to pass something that has worked that is moral and beautiful to my generation. >> tucker: ready think this is going? >> i try not to be solely in the predictive business. i can tell you where i think it's going. here's the question -- i don't think anyone has really set it like this. with 2016, a tremor and earthquake are in aftershock meaning was it something before something when donald trump got elected? was an earthquake which was obviously called or was it in aftershock? i think it's a tremor. i think what we are living through is a 10-year long tremor of something that's about to happen. a tremor meaning something that happens before the earthquake,

the geological explanation. i think when historians write this, they will look at that is the beginning of a decades long reckoning with this kind of pocket technology, the surveillance states, corporate dominance, postmodern secularism, all these different factors putting together so where is this going? i don't know, but i do know that there is a restlessness among decent people of what to do next. where is my place in this world you mike do i always have to be a to these devices? and so there is probably going to be because of that. >> tucker: the democratic party was once the party of economic populism, the party of fdr. it no longer is, it's the party of billionaires and identity politics. the result of this is we almost never talk about economics in our public conversations. why is that and what are we missing? gil ferguson is one of the greatest historians now writing in english, written a number of

books on economic history as well as international history. we asked him about this. here's the conversation. >> i noticed in the last few years i spent at harvard was the climate became a chilly climate in which you felt weary in the classroom or even in private conversations for fear that somebody might take umbrage and you would find yourself on the wrong side of the cancel culture. >> tucker: you had this rise of monopoly power, explosion of finance, >> it seems to me the people on the left didn't want to conversations about economics

because they had lost that argument in the 1980s, haven't been able to make the case were socialism successfully. and the conclusion was there was more money to be made for more power to be gained by exploiting identity politics and emphasizing cultural racial gender differences. that's where all the energy move to and it was bad luck for the working classes. hard-luck for the economic losers from globalization and financial is asian because they really cease the figure in the debates that were going on in the elite universities and an educational system as a whole, so i think the answer is partly there was a shift of strategy on the left away from economics into what seemed like that brand of culture but it was also partly because the people who had lost out in that period from 2001 when china joined the world trade organization, the people who lost out were of no interest

the academic left. the working class and middle america just ceased to figure and i think one of the things that we don't fully realize although it's becoming more clear is what the left now offers is in fact a religion. it's not a secular political ideology. that's why people were saying earlier it's not about economics. it is about salvation, membership of the woke and it's about elaborate rituals and speeds that can only be pursued by the believers. that somebody i usually agree with but he called it the great and that is a very astute observation. far worse, the rise of new fake religions, political religions and one thing that is very clear from the 20th century is when people take their religious and

apply them to political ideology, central to him what made communism so deathly is it's ultimately religion, marxism is the same is true. we have to be very careful of political religions, it's not something that you should approach without a religious impulse. you start feeling that about politics, take a lie down and have some sleep, take a long walk and try again because politics should not be imbued with religious sentiment. what makes islam so problematic in the world? there is no separation of church and state. the politics and the religion are inseparably meshed together and muhammad essentially said you must practice a forcible export of this religion to the rest of the world.

so christianity was clever and it separated religion from politics and that separation is incredibly valuable and again, it's one of the things that makes the united states different. it's one of the things that is special about the united states, this division was upheld and we shouldn't blur it. the minute you blur it, all kinds of things can happen because people will do no more extreme things and they would if they were applying politics in a rational way to the realm of problems that politics can solve which is actually quite narrow. >> tucker: refugees are flooding into the state of florida, but here's the thing. they are all american. why is that happening? we asked the governor of the state ron desantis, that conversation straight ahead.

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>> tucker: for generations, florida was known as the sunshine state and many people know it as the free state. one of only a few left. my is that? a lot has to do with the governor of florida, ron desantis. we had a long conversation with governor desantis including about his life. here is part of that. it's interesting because people come from some little town out in the provinces and they show up at a place which is maybe not

that different, and elite institution and they decide this is the world i really love, these are the values that i believe and it's more contemptuous. >> i have never heard anybody criticize america, everything was about how america was. i never heard anyone criticize god or christianity -- yale's motto is for god and they hated god and hated the country and had a weird way of going to their institutions and seeing that was really eye-opening and i realized very early on this is not quite where i personally fit in. >> tucker: very hard to get into those schools. >> here's what i would say. the people are smart for sure, but if you think you are smarter than you are, you've got some problems. even if you are really smart and

i think what i saw was people who were smart, but tended to think they were a lot smarter and knew a lot more than they really did and i think there's a lot of danger to that. you have to have a little bit of humility. you want to be confident in what you believe in what you think but there's always more information out there and be careful of getting over your skis and i think that has served me well. >> tucker: how important do you think that is to people's decision to move here? >> it has definitely been a factor for sure on the fact that florida was on lock down like these other states, i think the lockdowns provided an impetus because they needed an outlet to do things of some of these states like minnesota and california i'm on the fact that they were locked down and had the opportunity to go out and do stuff added fuel to the fire of what was going on so the fact that we took a hard line on that, people understood as a law and order state but also we were open has been a huge factor in

people moving to florida. >> tucker: obviously you've had a lot of successes, what didn't go according to plan? how did you screw up in retrospect? >> early on, i was hungry for data so i would look at south korea, italy and i'm trying to make sense of this virus and it seemed to me this is something that was risky for elderly people. didn't seem like there was much risk in people, not just kids but even people who are reasonably in good health under 50 but i didn't have the proof of that in florida so when they did that 15 days to slow the spread, we followed that where is i think if i had more data, i would've had the ability to say why would we need to close a gym for two weeks? these are younger people working out if you are healthy, going to end up dealing with the virus better so i think it took me a few weeks, march and into april to get enough data to say okay,

we are not doing without you, going to make sure estate is open, get the kids back into school and we will focus our protection on elderly people. >> tucker: if you want to understand what's happening on the border, talk to someone who lives there. he's the mayor of texas right up against mexico. for him, open borders have been a disaster and that is true for the people of his city too. many of the people coming across the border he says are coming by rail. the number of apprehensions on trains is at 900% commencing videos of those migrants on trains right now. it's remarkable footage but very common. said the crisis is getting so much worse, state officials in texas meanwhile aren't even taking his calls. watch. >> we've always dealt with immigration and it's never been a problem but most of the time when they came out here will

looking for work, just passing through, very humble and very nice and now these groups that come through is totally different than what we saw. we caught 16,500 young male immigrants last month just last month. >> tucker: that's the size of your entire town. >> that's what they called it and i'm going to tell you a good many of them came right through our surrounding area. it is nonstop. >> tucker: you just made the point that you've dealt with immigration forever because you were on the board but the people you are seeing now are different. how are they different? >> they are more aggressive, feel like you owe them something. the pictures that media shows on tv from a very docile and humble people is not what we are seeing. you can talk to border patrol, this group of people are very aggressive. they want to fight you, they don't want to stay, they don't want to be caught and we used

did not see that. now people are nervous at night. i've been mayor of the seven years now, i've caused senator cruz's office when this started, i have yet to hear from them. i'll have an aide call me and tell me different things but it's no avail. >> tucker: you can get in touch with your own senators? >> is an elected official, i cannot get a call back. >> tucker: they call themselves conservatives, now the governor of your state famously a republican probably the last when you're going to have. >> i hope not. >> tucker: i hope not too but looks that way, governor abbott says he believes in border security and what has he said to you? >> the same thing. i've called his office until i'm blue in the face, talk to his secretary, talk to the chief of staff one time but get no response. it's time for us as a state to say you know what? the federal government is not

controlling this border. our governor needs to quit worrying about being reelected and say it's time we shut this border down. the federal government won't take care of it, then we should. >> tucker: why wouldn't you do that? >> i don't know why we are not doing that. the constitution says of the government does it, we have the right to protect our borders and we are not because it's an invasion in our country. del rio last month, 740 people dead across the board. >> tucker: so your governor, just want to say his name again, governor abbott seems like a total fraud who was a republican. he could just say this is our state, the state of texas and we are not putting up with this and we are going to seal our border because it's our state but he has refused to do that. >> i agree, he should. there was a bill in the house to protect the border wall in the state of texas and there's a lot of support in texas to build up border wall.

>> tucker: after george floyd died in minneapolis last may, we were told we needed a racial reckoning. that reckoning was based on lies. we will talk to two of the people who expose those lies next.

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>> welcome to fox news live. for more bodies found in the rubble of a collapsed condo building in surfside florida after cruise after crews demolished the last standing portion of champlain's towers south is that it was a critical to search and rescue efforts allowing crews into more places including bedrooms where people are believed to have been sleeping at the time of the disaster 12 days ago. now 28 confirmed deaths, 117 remain missing. according to the vatican, pope francis is alert and an overall good condition after undergoing intestinal surgery.

underwent a three hour operation to remove half of his:sunday and expected to spend time in a special sweeper reserved for popes. i am lauren blanchard and now back to "tucker carlson tonight." draw your headlines, log on to foxnews.com. >> tucker: after george floyd died in minneapolis last year, america changed and it changed very fast. we were told they needed to reckon with something called systemic racism for the democratic national committee heard that african-americans are routinely murdered by the police. all of it was alive. a social scientist and a professor and has studied the data on this. he's got a new book called the hate crime hoax. we had an amazing conversation. you've never heard of him, watch this. what are some of the things that you believe are true that are not permitted in polite conversation right now?

>> the book looks at what you can call cancel culture today and what many people do call cancel culture which is this idea that there were certain things that may be true but may even have very intense explanatory value that you're not supposed to discuss in polite society. in the problem here is that if you can't discuss the possible explanations for things, the very likely explanations for things in some cases, you end up having a nonproductive conversation with things that aren't very relevant. sexism comes to mind in many conversations, ending up being labeled the total cause of everything we are seeing so the first chapter of the book looks at the black lives matter movement. i openly say i'm a black man and a proud one, and academic, i have some sympathy towards the underlying goals of the movement with racial equality and so on but point out many of the things they say are objectively not true it if you look at the claim that there is a very large number of murders, if you will, of african-american men by police, that turns out simply

not to be true. the total number of unarmed african-american males killed in genuinely disputed, potentially controversial shootings by police last year if i have the number correct, 13. the total number of unarmed people including the very large caucasian and hispanic majority we rarely talk about, that number was under 100. full number of police shootings all in was under 1,000 and that included people attacking the officer with a pistol or another firearm, knife, a vehicle used as a weapon. so that argument simply didn't stand up. there wasn't a gigantic black/white discrepancy. you adjust for crime rate in the total number of these cases for all groups combined was 100 or less so those were the facts and i went on from there into interracial crime in general and i think this is something that the media and all political sides really emphasizes because like the failure of masculinity

if you will with planes crashing out of this guy or animal attacks, it's one of those things that terrifies people we see a lot of stories about warriors and the other race attacking people unprovoked and ugly. it turns out this very rarely happens. there is an annual document that summarizes the victim reported crime in the usa that we call the justice statistics report. out of 12 to 20 million crimes at a typical year, we have a problem of crime in this country, generally 600,000 of those are going to be interracial violent crimes that involve either a black perpetrator or a white victim or a white perpetrator and of black victims of a tiny percentage, 5% and even more politically incorrect part of that would be those numbers in general are also about 80% black on white. you have to understand, there are five times as many white people as black people just begin the analysis, still a bit disproportionate but the actual

figures don't give support to anyone's theory of paranoia. this is 5% of the crimes, it doesn't cut in the direction the mainstream media reports almost every time. we are going to talk about this fringe topic at all. so i make this point, it is saying there's an epidemic of white cops or white people attacking black people, we can all call out cases where that indeed did occur or may have occurred but that simply is not the reality of the country and presenting it as though it is hurts race relations pretty seriously. >> tucker: there are a lot of reasons to be very distressed about higher education in the united states, most of it is garbage but there are rare bright spots and maybe the brightest of all is a professor at of all places, brown university called glenn of mowry. glenn lowry is really smart, a very clear thinker and in glenn lowry's vision, things that are

very complex become suddenly understandable. we asked him about the moral panic that took place in this country after george floyd's death. here's what he said. >> the rioting in the street after george floyd died is a grave matter. the reaction is not to think it through, not the question, not to assemble facts, not to make arguments but instead such that you can hardly distinguish what they were doing from a manifesto that would come out of black lives matter. and i thought this is bad for the country, but i also thought this is horrible for the universities. >> tucker: and these are smart people. >> indeed they are, very smart people and you can speculate about their motives. >> tucker: they should know better. they are committed to free inquiry and that ought to trump their political concerns. >> or their insistence on having the world know that they are on

the right side of history because we don't know what the right side of history is for most of these things. that's the question. we are there to figure out what the right side is. >> tucker: man, is that true. as you're living it, you need to retain some humility that 100 people will have a clearer sense of decisions. >> in 1789, they thought they knew with the right thing was. in 1917, they thought they knew with the right side of history was. he thought he knew with the right side of history was. we live long enough to know that's pretty hard to know what the right side of history is. but like i said, we're universities, not a political campaign. could it be true that every member of the administration of this university reads the george floyd incident in exactly the same way? i don't even know if it was a racial incident.

i mean that seriously. >> tucker: of course, me too. >> he died, the jury spoke, was it a racial incident? was at a racial reckoning? i think something remains to be demonstrated here. when you say it's a racial -- when you racialized that encounter, emmett till, i was alive when emmett till was lynched in mississippi. this is not emmett till. i'm pretty sure of that. how many times can you remind the white majority of this country that their numbers are shrinking and they're about to be dominated by a nonwhite coalition of latino and black and what not, how many times can we tell them that they are intrinsically racist, that their lives are built upon an unearned privilege, how many times can you accuse them of failing to see your humanity when in fact you are living in the freest country and you are the richest people of african descent ever to have walked on the planet. how many times can you do that

and not have them get the idea that they've got an identity that's a racial identity and it's not yours. that's not the world do you want to live in. you don't want to be told in response to your iconoclasm, we will tear down the statues, we think the founding fathers are full of [bleep]. you don't want that. >> tucker: last year, people in the scientific community told us that racism was a public health crisis. meanwhile, the country was ravaged by an actual public health crises. we will tell you what they are next.

>> tucker: has hundreds of thousands of americans got hooked on opioids, one family raked in billions of dollars from their suffering. but they didn't act alone. an investigative journalist has written an entire book on the opioid epidemic with a fascinating conversation. here's part of it.

>> 2007, purdue had to plead guilty to felony misbranding, misrepresenting the drug is not addictive enough and to safe and everything else, $600 million fines, paid by the top three executives and if we spoke the week after that, i would've said to you it's over, doesn't matter, they are not going to sell big numbers anymore and what i have been wrong because after they plead guilty after this agreement, after the department of justice is supposed to watch them, they have their biggest sales from 2008 on, bring in the great firm to say we need the big guys here, we need mckenzie and mckenzie tells them how to turbocharge sales in 2013 when sales are down $100 million and every year taking out 800 million, a billion in 2015, they make the forum's wealthiest families and forbes calls them the oxley clan.

>> tucker: what does mckenzie tell them? >> this is fantastic. i told them you need to increase the sales representatives who were going out, the detail team, those that are selling the drugs directly to doctors by 20%, make them make more visits and don't have them waste their time on the low prescribing doctors because that's not worth it. go just for the high prescribing, go to the ones who are. >> tucker: i think a lot of people who first read about the story 20 years ago said to themselves that's really sad people are dying of drug abuse and attics o.d. and they are addicts and your sympathy is limited because they are an addict and they are reviled. my mind was changed when i read the numbers, the numbers of pills coming into certain zip codes particularly in appalachia and kentucky and west virginia and parts of ohio were so high,

it didn't seem to me that any honest and decent pharma executive could read these in the monthly report and think that was okay. >> it's impossible. he can't get away with it. they knew where there was heavy concentrations, they never reported any of this to the fda, never reported anything back, they just put on their blinders and said let's pocket the money. there's a lot of responsibility that goes around, it is the fda, the middle distributors, doctors running pill mills, pharmacists who are willing to cut the roles and look the other way to fill the prescription that shouldn't be done though they will take the brunt of the blame because they are the owners of this star drug that because of so much devastation but there's plenty of blame to go around. >> tucker: if you can't stop eating certain things, maybe there's a reason for that. it turns out a lot of the food products we buy at the grocery store are addictive and

processed, as processed as crack cocaine. he would no, spent more than a year writing the book "hooked, how processed food became addictive." it explains a lot. he is part of our recent conversation. >> i'm starting to call a lot of these products fast groceries like fast foods in restaurants and one of the defining characteristics as they are so highly engineered and processed that you can't tell what original foodstuff from the farm went into them. an much of the grocery store now is populated by these products. it's not just cookies and soda, ice cream treats. we are talking the freezer aisle and the pasta sauce aisle and on and on and on but the issue is when you talk to nutritionists is not that the food companies have engineered the bullet points things that we know are sweet. ice cream and soda and cookies, they've marched around the store adding the sugar, engineering

for things i didn't used to be sweet so now brad has added sugar and a point for sweetness yogurts, certainly could have as much as per serving of ice cream of sugar in them and then spaghetti sauce. >> tucker: has the same amount as ice cream? >> yes, per serving. and pasta sauce. some of the more popular brands ended up having the equivalent of a couple of oreo cookies worth of sweetness in the pasta sauce. so it's that marching around the store that really caused us then to expect sugar in anything, everything we ate for sweetness, so when you drag yourself over to the part of the store where we are all supposed to be spending more time, you know what i'm talking about, the brussels sprouts, broccoli and you get some of those bitter, sour notes that are also part of

our chemistry, your brain is saying what's this? where is the sweetness? take you back to the middle of the grocery store. >> tucker: because consumption of sugar suppresses your ability to process the other tastes, so when's you flood your system was sugar, the more subtle flavors don't even make sense to you. >> i think what's going on there is the memory. we are creatures of habit and the more you eat these ultra processed food products, the more your brain is going that's what i want, let's get more of that. so even beyond the sugar and one of the things that really startled me in writing the book is it's not just the ingredients that you see on the packages at the food company -- food companies know how to maximize the allure, they are going after our basic instincts. that draws to food and at one point, one of the scientists i was meeting and spending time with pushed back and said you know, it's not so much that we

are addicted to food it's that we by nature hard drawn to food and the food companies have changed the nature of our food to make over eating an everyday thing. >> tucker: comedy requires the truth and needless to say that not many comedians left in america but adam corolla is still telling the truth. wait till you hear what he's got to say next.

>> tucker: adam corolla has always been a funny, but one of the last funny people in the entire united states. because he's telling the truth when it's not allowed. wait until you hear what he thinks of the president of the united states. we just spoke to adam corolla for over an hour for tucker carlson today. here's part of it. >> i don't think joe biden means anything. i don't think there's anything

that comes out of his mouth that he means and when he is talking about jim crow 2.0 are talking about certain -- i heard him the other day saying certain nations are being pulled back, certain states are being pulled back into jim crow where they are going to ask black people to count jelly beans before they can vote, it's insanity. it's reckless, it's a responsible sort of insane. it's sort of equivalent to your pilot being drunk. he's not a bad guy. i know, but he is drunk and flying an airplane. yeah, he drinks a little. you know what i mean? it is kind of that on the you know what i mean? he doesn't want to kill anybody. i know, but he's a drunken airline pilot. that's what biden is to me. saying horrible, divisive things that has got us going at breakneck speed apart from one

another. politicians to figure it out, corporations have figured it out, cola and airlines and all of that, they are all racing this direction. i don't think they know what the end game is and the end game is power. it's not prosperity. it's just power. they are going to get more power, other people can languish, other people can go fight it out in the streets, they are going to seize control of the power and i don't believe -- i don't believe a thing that biden says or kamala harris says. she is up there with biden in terms of does she believe what she says, one little interesting test to figure out whether they believe what they're saying is just go on youtube and see them saying exactly the opposite four years ago or two years ago are 18 years ago, you know what i mean? how could they believe what they are saying?

>> tucker: dave portnoy has single-handedly built a couple of thriving businesses and then once he succeeded, turned his attention to saving other small businesses. millions of dollars for the barstool fund have been passed out to restaurants across the country, seems like a good deed so why are so many people trying to destroy dave portnoy? we asked them that and here's part of it. >> one of the things i think a lot of people who hate me don't do which i've done is i do research. just because somebody says something about a person or whatever, i will dig into it. we have four to six articles written about me that if i read them without knowing myself and just trusted, i would honestly believe that if i read it, but i am has central characters so i know the context and everything so i do that for everything i'm involved in. when becky run a sports web site but here you started your own

aid program so where is this going? >> we have done charity throughout the history of a barstool when there's causes that happen like in boston when the bombing happen, we raised a quarter million to get a guy a new house, much smaller at the time. the shooting in orlando, the nightclub shooting we raised money for so any time that i was in boston and a police officer was slain, read raise money for the family so we've always done charity and this is something where we can help and we jumped in. it's funny since that and definitely rose and i would never do that because you can't get anything done. it's fairly disgusting in my mind that the government didn't do something far earlier since i caused it, that caused it and is not that hard, it took me 24 hours to come up with this

concept and put in motion and go. everyone should want to help small businesses, so it was disheartening to see the government not do anything. i'm glad we could help a little bit and it wasn't myself, guy furey was another guy who raised 25 million, we teamed up and helped. people want to help people wanted leaders to help and nobody was coming out. >> tucker: so you never run for office. >> i would never run for office ever in a bazillion years. there are so many different things. i like my life, i don't want to hate my life. i don't need that headache and to be honest, they don't get anything done. >> tucker: by the way, a new episode is out tomorrow, may be our best yet, it's called surviving disorder and it's an in-depth look at what happens when things fall apart. law enforcement disappears, you're on your own, but increasingly, u.s. government has decided to disarm americans

with catastrophes like that. we have footage you will definitely want to see on foxnation.com. that's it for rest tonight, we will be back tomorrow and every night 8:00 p.m., the show that is the sworn and sincere enemy of lying, smugness, and groupthink. have the best night. see you soon. >> over the years i've developed a real passion for medicine. when i would visit these brave men and women that served our