howie: donald trump may or may not have legal success in going after twitter and facebook but i'll tell you this. his continued banishment by the social media giants is an outrage and hurts them more than the former president. why do so many people view twitter and facebook as awash in liberal bias and one sided enforcement. there are lots of reasons. trump is exhibit a. mark zuckerberg's facebook and jack dorsey's twister have become the public square and being booted from the square in 2021 amounts to being muted and

underscores their unfairness. if there was any case for such action after the capitol riots when trump was said to be encouraging violent extremism, it vanished during his six months out of office. legally it will be hard for trump to prove that private companies can't set their own rules but politically it's indefenseable and the most appalling part is most of the mainstream media, the supposed champions of free speech are fine with the digital cancellation of trump because he's trump. they keep talking about donald trump all the time including on social media but are pleased that his mega phone continues to be confiscated. i'm howard kurtz and this is media buzz. ♪ howie: the 4th of july of a time for patriotism but in our media culture it's a time for high decibel arguments over

patriotism especially over the founding fathers and declaration of independence which included no rights for enslaved black people but after the civil war should that mar america's image today. listen to npr. >> the declaration is a document with flaws and deeply engrained hypocrisies. it also laid the foundation for our collective aspirations, our hopes for what this country could be. howie: the fork times says the flag may no -- the new york times says the flag may no longer be a symbol of unity. supporters of donald trump have embraced the flag so officer mut many liberals worry that the left has all but ceded the national emblem to the right which is drawing sharp complaints from media conservatives. >> if you wanted to be accept inned the entertainment industry, media and academia, you have to draft this country. how deranged, how crazy have we

gotten over our national politics that if you see someone flying an american flag, you run the other direction because you assume you don't agree on politics. >> i know that there's a history in this country of certain groups using the flag, the american flag to intimidate marginalized groups and people of color. howie: joining us to analyze the coverage in new york, will cain, co-host of "fox & friends weekend" in, los angeles, leslie marshall, radio host and fox news contributor. will, what a do you make of some media organizations turning the july 4th celebrations into attacks on america and what npr calls flaws and hypocrisy. >> it's tragic for the future of the country. the american flag is a symbol of principles and aspiration that's we live up to the principles but the principles remain the same, they remain pure and

aspirational. if the media and the left decide those symbols no longer represent them and their ideology, that will be to their own impending doom because i have to believe, howard, this media narrative that you laid out, whatever kind of radicalism we see in academia or social media, it is not representative of this country and i think the majority of those on the left so if they adopt that radical position it will be to their own doom. howie: leslie, what do you make of the fact that -- look, no men are debating that all men who are created equal in 1776 did not include black slaves but shouldn't we celebrate the progress america has made since then? >> it's interesting because in 1943 there was a case before the supreme court and it was the virginia board of education versus barnett. again, 1989, there was another case out of texas regarding flag burning. so the flag and patriotism have been in question not just in present day. what i think is wonderful about

our country, howie, and what i think people have the freedom to do is to view and to feel about the flag, about the symbol, about symbolism in general and patriotism and how you define that individually and uniquely. i don't think it's doom for a certain group of people to say, hey, this makes me feel uncomfortable and i don't think because the flag makes somebody feel uncomfortable that they can't and don't see the progress the nation has made in certain areas, despite perhaps one congressional member's comments. howie: i get that we have to grapple with the awful legacy of slavery. but we live in a country where kamala harris is vice president, where barack obama was elected president twice, where congress passed a juneteenth holiday. shouldn't the media report a more balanced picture? >> yes. and that progress is undeniable that you laid out. to leslie's point, i would say that no one is questioning your right to disrespect the flag. you have the right. the question is, are you right

to do so. i'm suggesting you are wrong to desecrate the principles the symbols stand for. if you no longer stand by them, if the left doesn't believe in the principles and the founding of the united states of america, well -- and i don't mean this to be jingolistic, but you can find the door. you don't want to be like a wife who says to her husband i love you but i want to change everything about you. i would ask leslie or anybody on the left at this point, do you no longer believe in the unifying and foundsal principles. the flag is a symbol for the principles. the question becomes do you not believe in what we founded upon. howie: leslie, i'll let you respond to that. people have the right to descend dash -- dissent, but to some extent it's about the tone on the nation's birthday. >> listen to will's tone.

all of us on the left don't speak with one right, nor do all on the right. nor do all americans. it causes division. we're not unified under one message as a party, the democratic party. we're not unified as a nation with one message. i'm from massachusetts, 20 minutes from plymouth rock. my real last name you can find on the may flour -- mayflower. i don't love what happens when we hit the shores, that many of us have -- hello. we got you. >> i think i've been -- i think you guys can see me but i think i got disconnectedded somehow we .howie: we can hear you fine. let me pick be it up with will. let me mention that the author of the new york times story told cnn she was just reporting on the flag becoming a divisive symbol, she was not advocating. i want to look at two members of congress that have been attacked

by the other side. one of them is republican congressman paul gossar, a libel pundits are piling on him for associated with white nationalists. new york times headline, far right extremist finds an ally in arizona congressman. do these kind of media attacks work. >> work to do what? to paint the right in league with the white supremacist. the individual member of congress can be based upon his individual choices and actions and should not associate with someone who does not represent his views. if he does represent his views he should be held to account to explain. like i held leslie to explain whether those principles he agrees with. howie: leslie, who can now hear me again, which is great, suddenly conservative pundits are piling on congresswoman cori

bush for this tweet about july 4th. the freedom they're referring to is for white people, the land is stolen land and black people still aren't free. i don't get the still aren't free part. does the media assault from the right help to discredit her? is it fair? >> well, i think it's fair for her to say how she feels. i'm a white woman. i'm not going to tell a person of color, an african-american woman, elected official, how to feel. some would say you're elected to congress, that wasn't possible. we no history and at the time of independence african-americans weren't free. i want to say one thing. i know i was cut off. will, i've got to say, i'm not an elected official. and to put even my name in the same sentence with gosner it blows my mind, especially as somebody of jewish ancestry while this guy is hanging out with a holocaust denier.

howie: i don't think will was you attempting to do that at all. i want talk about former president trump who held a news conference this week. here's what he said about january 6th. >> that was an unfortunate event. i say, though, however, people are being treated unbelievably unfairly when you look at people in prison and nothing happens to antifa and they burn down cities and kill people. there were no guns in the capitol. howie: will, for the former president to refer to the riot at the capitol as an unfortunate event i think is going further than some on the right, who try to say nothing really happened there, it was no big deal. but trump pivoted to people were treated unfairly and bringing up antifa. your thoughts. >> i think you have to talk about january 6th in a very responsible way. you can't diminish it. i think it was definitely a riot but i think that it's been

overstated the events of january 6th. no one has been charged with insurrection. 500 plus people have been arrested, some of them by the way who have genuine questions and should be answered about what is due process. they they are being held to this day, and i talked about that on fox news prime time. if you only engage in rhetoric and hyperbole in describing the events you set aside principles and journalistic ethics and questions about what happened that day. there's a lot of questions that are not being asked about january 6th. i think we should be more responsible about how we talk about that day. howie: last hour, the former president told maria bartiromo we won this election in a landslide. he continues to say that. what do you make of him describing january 6th as an unfortunate event which is phraseology that i haven't heard him use before. >> it's a step in the right direction but sadly it is the big lie that he keeps perpetrating that he won't let

go that fans the flames of january 6th. he had the ability as president to stop it. i feel that he is, even in his own party, even mitch mcconnell felt he was responsible with some of the words he said. i'm not hearing responsibility from the former president and i'm not hearing the severity of what happened or what could of have happened. when you watch the footage, it's horrific, not only what happened with the police officers but things we heard about the risk to the lives of people like nancy pelosi, former vice president mike pence, aoc. howie: it was a traumatic event for our country. there's a lot more to say about this. when we come back, how the press is covering donald trump's lawsuit against facebook and twitter which he says are in cahoots with the mainstream media. this may look like a regular movie night. but if you're a kid with diabetes, it's more. it's the simple act of enjoying time with friends,

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howie: more than six months after twitter, facebook and google's youtube banned donald trump in the wake of the capitol riots he's fighting back with lawsuits against these big tech companies. >> social media has given extraordinary power to a group of big tech giants that are working with government, the mainstream media, and a large segment of a political party to silence and suppress the views of the american people. our case will prove this censorship is unlawful, it's unconstitutional and completely unamerican. >> it's anil liss in won -- an alice in wonder land lawsuit, .>> they ripped this guy's vocl cords out of his throat at a critical time in our nation's

history. the point is that the president is trying to do something to correct an injustice for the american people. howie: all right. will cain, does donald trump who had been saying he didn't care about being off twitter, he was going to start his own social media platform, does he have a case about unfair treatment by facebook and twitter, and also does he have a legal case. >> i listened at the top of the show. i think you got it just right. i don't know about the legal prospects of the suited filed but i think any american can look at this and say something is not right. something is not right in american culture, much less in big tech. where even a sitting president, much less a former president can be banned from the biggest technological platforms in the country. it's certainly not in the spirit of free speech. i don't care if it's a private company. that's not the point. they control the public sphere. when you see not just

this issue, but the origins of covid-19, therapeutics on dealing with covid-19, the hunter biden story, the truth is not allowed to be discussed and increasingly, alarmingly increased frequency and if donald trump continues to expose and tear that down, great. he's proven to be a very effective wrecking ball that exposes the rot in american culture. howie: trump told maria bartiromo that twitter allows dictators around the globe on but not him. you can weigh in on the legal arresting ament if you like. does this show the liberal bias of the likes of facebook and twitter? >> well, first of all, howie, and i said this before, they're a company. and the former president also said it's unamerican. right. what they're doing to him. and it's actually very american. it's called capitalism. because make no mistake, if these companies could make more money having him on, they would do it. you have to remember these platforms are not national.

they're international. as you just mentioned. people that are on their platform from around the world, not just the united states. we don't live in this micro come here. constitutionally, it's very clear, they're a private company, free speech does not apply to them. he'll lose the lawsuit. i'm old enough to remember if you don't like the company, you can go somewhere else, two, just get out of all the platforms, all together, three, start your own, that's what they did with parler. again, twitter and facebook if donald trump helped them, he would be on there. so it's not just about their political bent. and i would imagine there are people working at those companies that are both democrat and republican like most companies throughout the world in most areas of this. howie: the point is that twitter and facebook have become so powerful, i use the phrase public square, it's not realistic to go out and pitch your own tent. but also, in his news conference the former president said the

mainstream media are working with zuckerberg and dorsey and their companies to silence him and i'm not sure i understand that complicity, will. >> i would say, first of all, to leslie's point, and you touched on this, howard, it's not so easy to say if you don't like it, start your own. you brought up parler. parlers was kicked off amazon weber services. it's not like we're dealing with a completely free environment to innovate and compete as you want. what we're dealing is almost anti-trust monopoly corporations who have control if not the legality of free speech, the culture of free speech in this country. it's not just the constitutional right to free speech but the culture of it. this is what's being lost as much as any constitutional principle. the idea that you and i can sit here and share an exchange of ideas and should, that's being lost. howie: leslie, there is a vigorous debate on the hill about whether the companies should continue to get legal

immunity, the so-called section 230 that trump tried to eliminate. at the same time, it's what they're doing censorship, since it's not an arm of the government and the question here is, does the first amendment apply to these private outfits? >> it doesn't. the constitution is very clear. unless somebody wants to amend the constitution, which we all know is extremely difficult, although it's been done 27 times, look, there are going to be arguments and if you're going to put it forth, whether in a courtroom or the court of public opinion, people will say if the it's hurting, why are republicans, governors in the state, why are republicans the majority in certain state legislatures, how did donald trump win in -- not the last election, the election prior. the list goes on. so where is -- people might say you may perceive this as being against conservatives but at the same time the proof is in the details and are those elections

based on those. howie: it's not like if you don't like a hamburger company you did buy somebody else's ham bergeres. they've -- hamburgers, they've become that dominant. espn benches a star host over racially charged comments over legally video. are the media unfairly dunking on her? i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. hi, verizon launched the first 5g network, and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g by giving every customer a new 5g phone, on us, aha!

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this past year has felt like a long, long norwegian winter.

but eventually, with spring comes rebirth. everything begins anew. and many of us realize a fundamental human need to connect with other like-minded people. welcome back to the world. viking. exploring the world in comfort... once again. howie: you are looking at a live picture of the virgin galactic aircraft which is about in the process of separating, this is part of the final stage of this relatively brief flight into the edge of outer space. and we're going to keep an eye on that and we'll cop back to it -- come back to it shortly. espn host rachel nichols has had a rough time since the new york times obtained audio of a private conversation where we explained about the sports network giving a coveted assignment to a black colleague,

maria taylor. >> i wish her all the success in the world. she covers football, she covers basketball. [ indiscernible ]. go for it. howie: once this exploded in the press, nichols who has tried repeatedly to personally apologize to taylor was painted as the villain around this week espn booted nichols from the premier event, the nba finals. joining us from dallas, steve krakauer. this may seem like inside baseball or basketball but is what nichols said in the private conversation enough to warrant her being bounced by her network from the nba finals. >> no, it's totally incongruous.

it's about the state of espn and the hr hunger games that's happening there, the reactive nature in huh how things are going on there. rachel was being critical of espn as a whole for the lack of diversity efforts, they have one seat for a female colleague, a fee nail journalist, it's -- female journalist, it's between rachel and maria, this story has no real timely resonance right now. this is a story that is a hit piece orchestrated by maria taylor's camp to impact espn and rachel nichols. it hits as nba finals are starting, as maria taylor's contract is up in several weeks and you get this punishment of rachel nichols not for what she said a year ago but for what is a pr kind of nightmare for espn.

howie: i take your point on the contract. there are reports she was offered a $3 million deal but we don't know for a fact. i want to clarify. this was orchestrated by maria taylor's camp but you can draw that inference if you like. the other day, however, this shows how things have goten, rachel nichols went on the air on espn and offered this apology. >> i also don't want to let this moment pass without saying how much i respect, how much i value our colleagues here at espn. how deeply, deeply sorry i am for disappointing those i hurt, particularly maria taylor. howie: should she have had to you apologize like that when her colleague won't respond to her text and she's trying to say i'm sorry, it wasn't aimed at you. >> will not respond to her text and will not interact with her on the air. it looks like rachel nichols is talking to maria taylor, it's not happening.

she refuses to engage with her on the air. it's not an apology based on trying to come to an agreement. it's kind of what you have to do. that happened on monday. on tuesday, the decision was made to take her off of the nba finals. it's not like the apology led to a kumbaya moment. it didn't have resonance at all. howie: you're right. she was criticizing espn's approach to diversity. maybe the network felt stung and that's the reason for the retaliation i'm going to call it what it is. >> yeah. i think it's really just trying to get some pr win out of this. espn did not look good in that piece, i think it was by design, in that new york times article, it was losing the battle on twitter which as we know has so much relevance these days, i think undue relevance for a big organization like espn. you take rachel off the nba finals, you try take some of the heat off it. this may happen a during the nba

finals, game 7, maria taylors' contract is up. i would say it's a huge win for maria taylor and will probably lead to a contract from espn, looks better than the 3 million she was offered earlier this year. .howie: we shall see. you how we go back to the historic space flight, virgin galactic, richard branson, the founder of the company, on-board. tell us what we're looking at right now. >> well, it is a historic moment, that's exactly what you're looking at right now, howie. an incredible moment for not only space, but for space tourism, as sir richard branson takes this giant leap forward for many people who have hopes and dreams to reach the very edges of space. a few moments ago there was a gasp out here and you will hear cheers now, when the rocket

decoupled and was released from the plane that took it up to 50,000 feet and that rocket shot straight up in the air and you could see the stream as it went up into the air and it's hard not to be excited and hard not to smile when you see something like that. the live feed of what exactly happened didn't go quite as planned. it was hard to kind of see the crew in there once they reached the moment where they were kind of weightless and floating around. we saw a brief moment of that but now we know they're getting back in their seats and they're heading back down-to-earth so this is one of the most critical moments when we wait and see if it will make a nice, save, smooth landing that we have seen virgin galactic do in previous missions to the edges of space here. howie: had that's what i want to ask you about. >> that's what everyone here is waiting for. howie: there's enormous public interest, isn't that in part because richard branson at the age of 71, the guy who had death

defying episodes in the past, he's on board and it's been cast as the battle of the billionaires because nine days from now jeff bezos will go up and isn't that what's driving in part the enormous public opinion. >> the race to space, certainly there's an interest in the billionaire race to space. but to tell fro the people who are out -- tell you from the people out here, we just heard a big boom, we hope it's the sonic boom, as they re-enter the earth's atmosphere. i think it's good to see the he competition between bezos and branson who will take a similar flight nine days from now in west texas. that's certainly a big part of it. but you need eye balls and you need interest in order to keep this going and if you're wondering, sir richard branson has sold 600 tickets to do this experience at a tune of a quarter million dollars a seat. so there is definitely a lot of

interest. someone like me obviously can't afford that. you can tell people want to experience this. howie: maybe they'll let journalists ride along at some point. bezos told a ticket for $28 million for a tourist on his. this particular flight, other than the pilots, has virgin employees on-board. but the spacecraft has successfully done this a handful of times. is there something other than branson's out-sized presence and of course we're all interested in that, he's a very colorful entrepreneur, that makes this particular flight that we're watching now different from the previous event? >> i think part of it is you've got someone who is a billionaire, who is obviously funding -- howie: let me jump in. richard branson is talking right now. we're going to listen. >> it's an experience of a lifetime. fa i'm looking back -- now i'm looking down, congratulations to everybody for creating such a

beautiful, beautiful thing. congratulations to our wonderful team at virgin galactic, 17 years of hard, hard work to get us this far. howie: i didn't realize that we were actually going to be able to hear from mr. branson in mid-flight. that is you amazing and also makes my point about it being a bit of a television show. jeff, let's pick it up, please. not sure if we still have audio contact. >> oh, yeah. howie, yeah, i think the point you were making before we heard from richard branson is that someone is paying and funding sort of an adventure to space, that he's putting his money where his mouth is and he's actually experiencing it to give the confidence to other people who are wondering if it's safe and viable. this would be the first time an owner of a privately run rocket company is taking the ride

himself. howie: right, to give our viewers an update. the virgin galactic flight is at 22,000 feet and descending. doesn't look like a dramatic descent but obviously it's moving very quickly. you have to give credit to the entrepreneurs, bezos wished branson lots of luck before the launch. they didn't have to do this. there's a strain of thought -- i like everybody else are wondering, private companies doing what nasa used to do exclusively, it feels like a new era but is it a diversion for rich people who can afford to buy the tickets, will it be more of a fun thing for people who have a lot of money as opposed to leading to a deeper exploration of space and the planets? >> i mean, i think if you go

back in history and you look at aircraft, commercial aircraft, i'm sure there were similar conversations about that happening too that is for the rich and the affluent and here we have people now like me, flying for work trips to come here to witness this historic moment. so i think the competition is good because it obviously will make the companies better and of course things are expensive when they first start out. an iphone was very expensive when it first starts out but a lot more people have iphones now, same with laptops or any technology. so very historic moment. it's hard to put into words, being out here and hearing the excitement and knowing what could be next for the future. howie: yeah. as somebody who grew up during the u.s./soviet space race and the great american moment in 1969 when man first walked on the moon and all the subsequent apollo flights, i'm used to the choreography of seeing a capsule cep freight the main craft and -- separate from the main craft

and splash down in water. maybe you could walk our viewers through how this will make a landing, i think this landing will get more attention than previous ones because of branson's presence on the spacecraft. >> yeah. so this is -- it's sort of almost two aircraft, if you will. it took off like an airplane would and that space rocket et that ended up going to -- rocket that ended up going to space was in the middle of a twin fuselage airplane. once it hit the 50,000-foot mark, then the rocket was released and took off to space. now it's coming back in and it's supposed to kind of be coming into the atmosphere with the underbelly taking the brunt of the gravity and the pull and the burn that's coming in back to the atmosphere and then it will land like a plane or a space shuttle, obviously it's much smaller. so it's a mixture between a

rocket and a an airplane they're calling it a space plane. howie: there's so many unique things that makes it so fascinating, beyond what you described as the battle of the billionaires. we should point out even though there's been success with this particular spacecraft, this is not without rifnlgt you talked -- without risk. you talked about somebody putting their billions of dollars where their mouth is. this is not a routine thing yet. they had to feel ready to launch. nasa does not regulate this other than the risk to people on the ground if something were to go wrong, anybody who gets on these spacecraft, whether it's branson, bezos or space tourists who buy a ticket know full well this is not like getting on a cross country flight from new york to la. >> no, it's certainly not but i think what separates virgin galactic from some of the other rocket companies we're hearing about is they've already taken

people on a similar ride and brought them back down. howie: 500 feet. >> safely as we await sir richard branson landing. howie: we're waiting now, 500 feet above the landing zone. let's be quiet for a moment and watch. >> main gear touchdown. and we're going to hold it just like this for a minute before bringing the nose down. they're already celebrating inside there. and the nose is coming down now. nose gear touchdown. and braking.

howie: well, it looks like a picture perfect landing, a smashing success. i've been on plane landings that were a lot bumpier than that. >> it's incredible drone footage as we come in and there is full stop. howie: the crowd there i'm sure very happy. jeff paul. we did get to see that shot of richard branson kind of clapping his hands together, knowing that he's just completed this historic flight and just watching those pictures was something when you consider all the technology and the hard work and the risks involved and now we're looking at the plane having successfully completed its landing. your thoughts? >> yeah, 90 minute flight, a very historic one and he's back down on the ground. it's pretty surreal to think that in an hour and-a-half -- an hour and-a-half ago we watched him get into the suv and head out to space and now he's back

down on earth in the matter of an hour and-a-half remarks would be a typical movie. so it's incredible just to see this experience, to see the technology, how far it's come and as you mentioned, sir richard branson has been working on this for years and years and finally he gets a chance to experience something that he has invested countless dollars in and now other people soon as they have booked tickets will get to experience something similar. howie: it's got to be an absolutely thrilling way to spend some time even though it's described as being on the edge of space. we're talking about 50 miles up and of course the effects of gravity and the effects of feeling weightless even though you're not weightless is really something and i think everybody was cheering for branson and that flight and i think there will be a similar reaction when jeff bezos goes up in his rocket. it's really something to watch these historic pictures. jeff paul, appreciate your doing the duty there and keeping us posted.

would you like me to keep going? okay. sorry, i thought we were. >> i was just going to say, just an credible view from space, from the windows, i'm sure that's part of it too, the weightlessness, also the view. howie: and live and in color. in the early days of the apollo program, a lot of it was in black and white. i imagine over the next 24 hours we'll hear a lot more from richard branson about what it was like, his feelings about the successful launch and i think the press will have a lot to feast on here about is this a kind of a wright brothers moment that is going to lead as you were saying earlier to kind of a new era, in which private companies, in which capitalism is going to play a much bigger role and nasa which laid the foundation for this over the decades and is still going to be exploring places like mars, will have some competition and competition in america is a good

thing. >> yeah, we'll see what happens next and we're nine days away from jeff bezos doing something similar. obviously his experience will be a little different, it's a fully automated rocket that will land itself back down-to-earth and it's going to go a little higher and there has been back and forth between virgin galactic and blue origin about what's considered space. the u.s. government defines it as 50 miles above. international market, 62 miles above. most experts say there isn't much of a difference between the 12 miles once you're up that a far. howie: it goes to show you, you've got to win the battle for space and then have you to win the pr battle to tout your accomplishments but that's the world we live in and we also live in a world where billionaires with the right amount of drive, determination, money and of course very talented engineers and scientists, people like that, can make something like this happen. and again, the fact that we watched that very slow, smooth

dissent onto a landing made it seem routine. we've been having very different conversations, there could have been complications, something could have gone wrong, there was a delay, weather related reasons. you can't say anything other than this was a triumph, a success for branson, for virgin atlantic, for america and for those who really care about space exploration. >> yeah, and i think the other part of it, if you talked to people who have watched space launches in the past, they brought back down the ship that will likely be reused again. part of it is bringing the cost point down, the reusable aspect of this space flight. howie: let me turn -- we have on the phone john krisidis, air gnaw particular engineer who -- -aaeronautic engineer, give us

your take on the landing and what was accomplished here today. >> it's tremendous. this really sets us apart and gives us the ability to have space tourism and i'm ready to go too. i think it's an amazing thank tg that happened today. howie: you're raising your hand, you're ready to sign up. >> i'm ready to sign up, yes. howie: i hope you have a big bank account, at least initially. what's a amazing about it, because the thing that strikes me -- again, i made an earlier reference to the fact that i'm used to seeing the big booster rocket take off from kennedy and then later the splashdown of the cap sewel. i mean, -- capsule. i mean, here we have a different kind of takeoff, it took off kind of like a regular airplane, and a different kind of landing. talk a little about that, if you would. >> sure, this is more like a space shuttle, that would land like a regular plane. and what sets this apart from what bezos is doing and musk is

that this is a plane that the astronauts actually control. versus an automatic system where everything is done automatic. when bezos goes up, it's going to be fully automatic. howie: why the different approaches? it would seem like fully automatic might be safer. on the other hand, if things go wrong you do want experienced pilots on-board, i would imagine. >> right. you hit it right on the head. you do want pilots on board in case something goes wrong. i'm an engineer that does automatic controls. imperfectly content with an automatic system too as well. howie: you see the press gathering you now, maybe some of these folks will come out. in the meantime, if i had asked you fine years ago whether this was -- five years ago whether this was likely, whether this was feasible and whether this could become routine, what would

you have said? >> i would have given ate a 50/50 honestly. we're here today. it's a great day. just look forward to the future. howie: so we're looking at live pictures of branson and the crew and the employees inside the capsule. they must be breathing a little easier now. you can have all the drawings and scheme matt ex and studies -- scematies and studies but i'm sure it's a relief to be on the ground. your projection, you would think that 50/50 odds, underscores that we've been used to a lot of success with the space program, with a couple of tragedy as well, thinking of the challenger for one terrible moment during the reagan administration, that this was not a foregone conclusion and that the risk factor is still substantially high when you're faulking --

talking about all the things that have to go right for this to be successful. >> exactly. john f. kennedy said it right. we do this because this is hard. we're building satellites at the university of buffalo right now, one of them we're about to give to the air force. it's been six years in the making, this is about the size of a shoe box. it takes a lot of work to ensure that the satellites will work safely and obviously when you have humans involved, that goes up by an a order of magnitude. so a lot of planning needs to go in place. this was a short launch but when you launch things into space, you don't get a chance to -- you only get one chance. so think about flying a car for millions of miles and not being able to -- you've got to get everything correct and make sure it's going to work the first time. howie: i'm particularly interested in hearing about what you're working on since i'm a graduate of the state university of new york at buffalo and

obviously a lot of private companies, contractors will try to get in on this. where do you see this going? do you think it will reach the point where space travel is relatively routine or for now is the most that we can say is that there will be occasional flights with relatively rich people on-board to get the excitement of going 50 miles into the at atmosphere. >> it will definitely be routine i think in 20 years, just like right now we're at the beginning of air travel, right. who would have thought how fast air travel would have became routine. that's what's going on right now. i think within 20 years it will be fairly routine with space tourism and hopefully with private companies and billionaires behind this and making the transition from government to more industry and i think there's going to be -- space tourism is going to be big. maybe some day one of these

billionaires will build a space station up there and have a permanent presence for tourists to go up there. i think that would be very exciting. who knows where it's going to go right now. howie: let me bring back jeff pulling. the justification for the initial nasa space program is it would greatly aid research for things here on earth. obviously there's natural drive and inclination to try to go to the planets, landings on the moon and all of that. i hear less about that now, but perhaps if this does become more frequent, more companies involved, more people experiencing it, there will be some scientific benefits as well? >> yes. well, i'm thinking more in terms of the moon and asteroids because there's a lot of rare minerals on there, water that we can use, and other things that can be brought back to earth. and help solve some of the problems we currently have on earth. obviously, we're a long ways

away from that but i think it's something we should be planning for. howie: yeah. i'm sure that that will be the case. i guess we at least briefly lost our connection with jeff paul. let me say a couple things and bring you in, john. that i think there were times during the u.s. space program when there was a great debate here on earth about was it worth the money. couldn't we take all these hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and a spend it on needs here at home and people starting with jfk when he launched the space race, lbj has been interested in space and every president has argued it's worth it, that it's man kind's destiny to explore and also there would be benefits well beyond the creation of gatorade for people here at home and so i think that the media play a pretty crucial role here, not just in we all get very interested in showing these launches and these landings, but i think it helps drum up public

support the more attention we pay to what people like branson and bezos are trying to accomplish. >> exactly. and i think that's a very good point. because when shuttle launches became routine, this happened with apollo as well, when it became routine there was less media coverage and people didn't tune in as much. i think as more and more of this happens, people are going to become a lot more aware of it. i got into my area, became an aerospace engineer because i wanted to be an astronaut. i think the more we do this, the more we'll get excitement to explore, to get into the stem field and i think that's really important. i think a lot of people don't look at that aspect and say do we want to spend more money on education, that's great, but this will do a lot more to inspire kids like apoll low did for -- apollo did for me to get into the stem field of aerospace

engineering. i think it's exciting. howie: we're looking at footage from earlier this morning of the virgin galactic aircraft. if you're just joining us, there you see a shot of the crew inside. this is earlier videotaped footage. it's been a tremendous success. richard branson at the age of 71 putting this billions of dollars into this and bringing it in for a safe landing after a roughly hour and-a-half flight. jeff paul, let me ask you the same question i was just exploring which is how important is the media coverage in terms of raising people's awareness of not just the flashy parts of this, branson versus bezos, but the benefits and the allure of what might some day be more routine space travel. >> obviously, it plays a huge role in bringing what's happening to us and keeping the

company honest, to the viewers about what's going on and the challenges they face at this point and what the experience is truly like. i tell you what, there is all sorts of different media here, internationally, probably more international media here than domestic. you've got local reporters from new mexico and a he'll pa he sew -- el paso area, also from london, australia, france, different parts of asia, all over the world here to view this moment and i think share it with viewers who they think have an interest in it and find value in this huge step towards space tourism is what they're calling it and one of the other things i want to point to is you can kind of see the crowd of people who have showed up here, some of them virgin employees, people who have gotten a chance to come here and witness it and they're all waiting to get a glimpse of richard branson and to cheer him back as they get back from space. howie: yeah. you know, richard branson has had a career where he's done

some wild things, where he's been injured in some of the things that he's attempted to do, bungie jumping and other stunts, all of which has made richard branson very famous, very rich, but he's also had to run this company. i want to provide some perspective as we continue to look at live pictures of the touchdown site. and that is, you know, it's just shy of 120 years ago that the wright brothers were able to achieve flight, get an actual now primitive looking aircraft off the air and look at how much has happened, how much the world has changed, how much the world has shrunk because of airline travel and of course then the explorations and recently the unmanned craft on mars and the explorations of the moon and all of that. the point is, throughout all of human history, this was unthinkable, this was not possible. now we're looking at something that is all too possible

financed by private companies that could have a great future. >> yeah. and judging by the looks of it, the atmosphere that someone like richard branson brings along with something like this is pure excitement. you know, you can probably hear the music behind me and that's what it's sort of been this entire time we've been out here since the early morning hours, around 4:00 a.m. a. they've been pumping music out here, getting people excited about this, not just for richard branson but what's next for the future of space flight, space tourism, maybe experiencing the weightlessness. elon musk has set his sights on going to the outer limits of space. it's a huge step. it's an exciting one, even for the people down on the ground,

just seeing that trail that the rocket left as it shot up. you can remember where you were at that moment i think for a lot of people who were out here in the new mexico he desert to witness this moment. howie: thanks very much for your reporting and your insights. we appreciate it. it is exciting, sitting here, it's my job as an anchor to help narrate and to provide some perspective and information but, you know, just on a basic level and this is going back to the first time that people like john glenn, the future senator went up into space, it's exciting. it's rivetting to watch this when you take a second to realize, john, let me get you back, how much of a technological challenge this was. i'm sure there were many nay-sayers saying you will never be able to pull this off but today at least has been a huge success. >> yes. i agree with you 100%.

going back to the point about the international community, i look at space as the unifier for the world. because we all share space. and the more we cooperate in going into space, hopefully it will be part of the thing that unifies us in the future. so it's a great day. and for all the nay-sayer, i've got to admit i was a little bit in that sense too, but, yeah, i mean they've all been proven wrong and keep going. howie: on that point, i mean, the original space race of the 1960s was born out of a competition between the united states and the soviet union. it was kind of a proxy for the cold war. but then the two countries now with russia ended up cooperating on the international space station, china now trying the to become a player in international space as well. but the biggest thing here i think is that private industry, which takes a lot of criticism, has shown that there are

visionaries there, there are a lot of companies that have not as well run, and branson who as i said has been controversial, who has been colorful, really gets to do the victory lap if i may use that phrase for what he has pulled off. a quick final thought from you, john. >> well, competition breeds technology. right. so competition is good in that sense. it can also have a downside but by and large i think competition is a very good thing and if china were to say we're going to mars, what would we do? we would immediately say we're going to mars, we want to beat them, right. i think it's a good thing in a lot of ways. howie: john, we appreciate you joining us by phone. thanks very much. and i'm just going to look at the pictures here now for a moment as we kind of take it all in. i keep trying to reset the scene because the magnitude of what has gone on here today and the possibility of many flights to come, whether it's branson, whether it's bezos, whether it's

other companies really could change space commerce and the way we think about it. i'm he delighted to have had a chance to share this historic moment with all of you. we're coming to the end of peed ya buzz. thank you for watch -- media buzz. thank you for watching. we'll be back next sunday. we'll pick up the coverage with fox news on this historic day, successful flight of the virgin galactic. arthel: a historic step on the road to private commercial space travel, virgin galactic's ceo richard branson and five company employees landing minutes ago after blasting off from new mexico aboard branson's own rocket plane. the you crew briefly leaving the earth's atmosphere, making branson the first billionaire in space, beating amazon and blue origin founder jeff bezos by nine days. well low, welcome to -- hello, welcome to "fox news live." i'm arthel neville a. hi, eric. eric: good morning, i'm eric shawn. thanks for being with us.