not a credible ally, not someone -- steve: that is what is so. i'm sorry we're out of time, you have summarized it. thank you so much for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ lara: the taliban steps to power as president ghani steps down. the seat to presidential palace not yet cold.

>> a stunning turn of events in kabul. lara: a victory forged in the blood of an american betrayal, almost 20 years to the day since 9/11. here racing to kabul airport to flee . two people who held to the military plane that was taking americans to save tie, were so desperate they never let g barely visible as they tumbled through the air to death. in the war against islamic terrorists here. muslims have long paid the heaviest price, women and children have been targeted by the taliban and other islamic extremists, like the girls at this school, in the afghan capital kabul, three explosions this year, tore through flesh

and bones, leaving 85 dead and fear in their wake, afghan families have buried up to 70,000 policemen and soldiers, since 2001. according to a week report from brown cost cost of war project. casualty rate so high, military convention said though army could sustain it. after heading to battle day and night for 20 years, without end, the scale and speed of u.s. withdrawal delivered them into the hands of their enemies. without u.s. air support, the afghan special operations forces, america's most trusted partners were crippled. this small highly specialized force trained by u.s. and nato's relies on mobility, here out numbers and out of ammo in a operation in north, they, merged

with hands up, surrounded by heavily armed taliban what are heard urging them to surrender. [ sound of gunfire ] then gunned down in cold blood, amid cries of god is great. more than 20 of afghanistan's most capable warriors executed in seconds. their crumbled bodies still warm, pools of blood seeping into ground, the u.s. had abandoned. >> they believe that they can conquer and they believe their jihadist literature will prevail. lara: they believe they have won. >> they believe they are winning. lara: afghanistan vice president did not follow president ghani on his escape plan to a foreign land ubut he headed north to

join his people and talk up arms. unwilling he said to surrender to terrorists or live under tyranny. this is a difficult moment for you, is there a sense of betrayal? >> i will not put my pride on my palm and go to the americans and say, stay longer. i won't. lara: for weeks following 9/11 u.s. warplanes pounded taliban and al qaeda targets from the skies, based own intendgence from soldiers on the ground, most were afghans, supported by a small number of operations forces. salah was one of those in the fight. and main conduit for intel jeff intelligence passed to u.s. we sat down with him this summer, kabul had not yet

fallen. >> a very old society. to a foreigner it is a patchwork of villages, distance from each other, isolated communities with no economy, for westerns to say what brings them together. it is for a lot of people here, that is a puzzle. there are invisible links between the communities. developed over centuries, there is literature, and traditions, and marriages. >> those villages they are falling one by one and quickly. >> to what. lara: i don't know. what are they falling to. >> that is temporary.

the taliban cannot change the gene of the villages. we believe that god is the creator of all. and unfortunately, taliban believes that god looks at them through one prism. which is shining and bright. and he looks at everybody el elsethrough a dark window, he is happy with taliban and not with us, he tells taliban keep killing people. lara: they kill more muslims every day than anyone else, salah said proof this is about power not religion, they killed close to 2500 americans, and wounded 20,000 more by the time salah came with afghan president

ghani to washington this summer. for brief talks on the u.s. withdrawal. >> afghans have to decide their future, when they want. what they want, but for for lack of us being help. >> they say we want to defend itself we provide with you funds and technology. with advice, so you take care of yourselves, they are right, we're not asking u.s. to micro manage our country. over the past 20 years, a lot of good things were done. but when it came to building -- the contractors were more in charge than ourselves with critical areas. for example like maintaining air force. like giving training to our special forces. i would say our allies were very generous. but not necessarily very smart.

>> our allies will not appreciate that. >> i think deep down they agree with me. lara: salah experienced first hand misery inflicted on fellow muslims the last time taliban ruled afghanistan for 6 years before 9/11. stoning women to death. for adultery. sentences carried out in public to spread fear, he hoped biden would leave a small military force for counterterrorism operations. to deceit the ideology. but the administration instead pressures them to form a new government with the taliban. and pulled all u.s. troops. >> 20 years since 9/11, where is afghanistan now. >> afghanistan is in a stalemate situation. the taliban are not defeated. they have not severed their ties with terrorist groups, they are

boosted. but when it come its the ideological gene, they are as radical and irrational as they were before, even more irrational, they believe that they have defeated the western armies. lara: what do you mean more radical? >> without showing concession they have received this one way concession from the united states, in terms of -- they have not agreed to enter into meaningful negotiations for settlement. and they are of the view without changing their theology, without killing, without challenging, stopping challenging the global order, they are recognized. and -- >> they are, right? >> that is true. >> they have a defacto embassy

in qatar thanks to u.s. and their allies there they sit down at negotiating take wealth table americans, they have been give than defacto status. >> i think it is a mistake. a mistake they are given all of those concessions without us collectively using our lever to change them. lara: how do you negotiate. >> the taliban have not negotiated with us, for two years they negotiated with the u.s. and secured so-called doha acumen, but you say how do we negotwait with them now, we are not retreating from negotiations, war is tragedy. >> negotiations with al qaeda protectors would have been unimaginable on that clear

september morning in 2001, when osama bin laden brought war to america's shores. murdered close to 3,000 americans, including a number of muslims. he established al qaeda extreme ideology as the foundation, or translated from arabic, idea logical base of a global jihad or a holy war to rule the world. for the men and women who headed into afghanistan, the mission was urgent, protect the u.s. by hunting those responsible for 9/11 and eliminate the threat. >> on my orders, united states military has begun strikes again al qaeda terrorist training

camps and taliban regime in afghanistan. these carefully targeted are designed to disrupt of use of afghanistan as a terrorist base of operations. and to attack the military capability of the taliban regime. >> over the years, as shock wore off and memories faded, america lost the toll fight, not here on the battlefield where no one in uniform could forget. defeat instead lay in the nation's capital, america's leaders changed their stories. and with help of those meant to hold them accountable. >> greatest terrorist threat of al qaeda in afghanistan. -- we are

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issues in afghanistan, a front row seat from embassy in dc, for fora washington's view of the war. >> second area where american public has been deceived america spent a lot of blood and treasure on afghanistan. most of moneys that not gone to afghans but to american contractors, who were once the mission started being enlarged it became a business, nongovernment organizations showed up, engines in philosophical battle which i respect but not necessarily connected to the war effort. third area in which americans are deceived is that a peace process was taking place.

the united states was negotiating only the withdrawal of its troops with the taliban. >> we he studies ideology that u.s. no longer wants to acknowledge as a existential threat. >> al qaeda has been decapitated. lara: is it true. >> al qaeda by definition is a organization that can reconstitute itself, many of its leaders are still around. they are recruiting. this means a new generation of al qaeda is being born. lara: the ties to taliban were forged long before 9/11. in photos from 1996, you see osama bin laden in mountains of eastern afghanistan.

where the taliban took him in after he was forced out of sudan. under pressure of u.s., they gave him refuge and a base of operations, when u.s. came for him, fought and died alongside his men, rather than give him up. both escaped across the border to tribal areas of pakistan. what is the relationship between the taliban and al qaeda? >> they were supposed to sever and cut their ties with al qaeda. lara: they have not. >> difference between the taste of coke and pepsi, if you remove the labels you can say which is coke and pepsi. lara: how do you deal with that? do you deal with them as one? >> in afghanistan we deal with them as one, absolutely. because when we capture an isis

person, within minutes of interrogation we find out that you know last month he was taliban, two years ago he was al qaeda, now he is isis. because the foundation is the same. >> taliban closely linked to al qaeda. and so the factory mains that the -- remains that distinctions between al qaeda and the taliban are making them has lead to policies that have not enabled the united states in able to deal with the taliban problem. lara: or defend itself from the threat of islamic terrorism? >> indeed. lara: separating al qaeda from the taliban was critical to selling an end to the afghan war, we wanted to hear it from the taliban. we asked shaheen a familiar face

at negotiating table in doha, and an influential figure in taliban's political wing, he spoke to us by remote from their political office in qatar. lara: why have you not renounceal qaeda. >> we'll not allow anyone do -- >> that saying you would allow to be used specific question, why will you not renounce al qaeda. you never have, not from day one or 9/11 until now. >> we have said, we condemn killing of civilians by any entity, any group. whether it is a organization, a state, or any group to kill civilians that is our general renouncing of anyone.

that is. lara: as spokesperson, shaheen is well versed in the message. >> that is not the same thing a general statement. >> i was from the beginning, as member of the negotiation, from the obama administration, i know what they said on the the table, concern of the that we not allow anyone to use -- gain them. lara: will you renounce al qaeda. >> anyone who are killing civilians. >> not anyone, al qaeda specifically. will you say you would renounce al qaeda. >> i think anyone who are killing -- that is our clear policy, i think that is clear. lara: it is not clear sir, i think you are avoiding -- >> for us it is clear. maybe not clear for you, but for

us it is clear. lara: do share-al qaeda ideology. >> we do not have any foreign agenda. that we have proved last 20 years, we were able to care out attacks outside of afghanistan, against those in waiting countries who have had invaded our country. but we didn't do that. we fought them in our country. in order to gain independence. >> do you not support al qaeda's goal to see the onerous scourge to the earth. >> i already told you our policy. >> i understand, sir, it does not seem honest, because, you fight side by side with al qaeda, the dead are found

together. you are treated in the same hospital in pakistan, you have married to each other's families there is al qaeda bases that have been found where the taliban and al qaeda are working and operating together. i have spoken to other taliban fighters in past we have filmed in camps, where we have seen you, working and fighting and living side by side. it is hard to believe that is true, that feels like fake news and propaganda. >> i think that fake allegation, who prolonged the war in afghanistan, for 20 years, who caused two trillion losses to america. and also losses and equipment to them, but the reason was this meaningless war it was because of such fake allegations, i hope to put a stop a big stop to such

allegation. please, instead of that focus, and peace and consolation in afghanistan, our people need that. >> with a narrow vision. for how they want society, and that is who they are. and public does not consider the taliban representative of of of them -- taliban could have accepted participating in some form but they refuse to do, that they say they don't believe in elections, and they insist on an an -- islamic system, they will define it for afghanistan, almost all taliban leaders have operated from pakistan at be one point or another, they do not want to -- that reality, pretending they just fought in

afghanistan with means they have somehow managed to scrape together and none of it is true. >> while shaheen was telling us that afghan people needed peace, taliban fighters were on the war path. they seized major cities and advanced on the afghan capital in a flurry of propaganda, supplies and logistics through this crossing on pakistani border, they raised their flag for the world to see, reports and videos out of the areas they have taken seem to show the new taliban were no different to the old, this one, a young man reportedly accused of stealing had his hand chopped off at punishment. severed limb thrushed into boiling water, taliban denied it all. we asked shaheen. lara: in areas that you reported

to have taken there are reports of video of women lashed in public and people having their hands chopped off, girls schools destroyed, hospitals destroyed. why that? what does that say what afghanistan would look like under the taliban again. >> those are fake -- from the past years. >> you say it is all propaganda and none is real? >> yes. it is wrong. that is against our

marianne: the wild fire has been burning for a week in northern california and it continues to burn out of control. this one of several blaze in the drought-stricken state that burned thousands of homes and caused people to vac rate. vice president kamala harris meets with singapore's president and prime minister monday, kicking off a week-long visit to southeast asia. the trip is to strengthen ties with key allies in the region.

they hope to bolster ties with both nations to counter china's influence in the region. sacrifg afghanistan. >> if put in today's contact. taliban come to a district with 70 security personnel. they out number them overwhelm them and capture them, what they capture it life comes to a halt. >> girls don't get educated. >> what comes in to existing is a taliban and a society that has to submit and bow. that is it. it is inhumane. it does not represent my past. my present and i do not allow it to dominate my future. >> in 2009 we first met,

saleh was afghanistan's top spy. >> they know that threat of radical islam is not confined to a particular geegraphical area, and not containable. lara: what are they doing. >> the belief is that it can be contained through negotiations and through creating an area of cooperation. lara: what do you think of that? >> i believe not, but i'm a minority now. lara: to many it is a miracle saleh is still alive, not for lack of effort by his enemies, they got close enough to kill his deputy. and in 2017, a suicide bomb are missed him by seconds at a funeral in kabul, where 15 people were killed, two years

later, they came for him again. this time, with 6 gun men and a massive truck bomb. it was coordinated attack on his office in kabul that left 30 dead, saleh lost many of his staff, two of his nephews, the attackers fought on the death, then months later. >> a road side bomb explodes close to saleh's convoy. >> we go for the election. lara: they never know. >> they planted 16 bombs. 4 in each direction. that is determination. >> his government made this video, to remind people what life was like under the taliban, and how much had changed. especially for women, images of

burkas and executions a far cry from the world where women worked and went to college. once the taliban returned, female journalists who were all over the news, disappeared. replaced by men with beards, some had been targeted early and killed, others quit, in fear.

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>> what the west has ignored to this day is where a country which has nurtured radical islam as a very effective weapon, they have weaponized their relation, that aspect for whatever reason has been ignored. underestimated or looked over. >> is that your greatest

frustration with u.s. policy in afghanistan? >> you are right. that is our greatest frustration. for example violent today means -- hundreds of people get killed, why, because they are infiltrating my country like locus to kill, we provide evidence of it on daily basis. >> to who? >> to everyone, to u.n. to the media. lara: to the u.s. >> to the u.s. absolutely. lara: what is the biggest mistake? >> right after 9/11, when we gained control of afghanistan, so quickly, the question was not asked what happened to taliban leaders? that question was not asked.

>> we knew what happened they went over the border to pakistan. >> yes, and they ignored it. >> hard to ignore pakistan's role here in arlington cemetery. with rows and rows of headstones mark the soldiers who died because of the -- they have protected those killing them and no u.s. administration has stopped them. >> 90% of the explosives from taliban bombs come from two fertilizer plants in afghanistan, this is going through checkpoints, the fact that we can't do anything about this is beyond belief. a veteran of dc swamp, during early years of george w. bush presidency, he worked as an

adviser to secretary of defense, he is now a senior fellow the american enterprise institute. one of few think tanks left that not firmly on the left. lara: in week of 9/11 it was clear the whole world thought that taliban was sheltering al qaeda and closely aligned but then obama administration comes into office and narrative changes. >> yes. >> what happened. >> president obama wanted to do, how he turned afghanistan from good war to bad war. he fought that u.s. was making a basic problem by protecting our military force. he wanted not only to end the american projection of military force but create a situation where no presidential came after him could project military force. lara: he did it by discrediting the afghans. >> absolutely. lara: then by -- narratives were

that al qaeda is decimated, was that true? >> absolutely not. lara: he does his research on the ground. and his office is testament to learn first hand. >> everything my wife will not let me keep at home. lara: helped shape his understanding, when president trump secretary of state pompeo made this announcement. >> i am proud to announce u.s. secured separate commitment from islamic respect of afghanistan and the taliban to hold negotiations for peace. >> for michael ruben it was groundhog day, repeating same mistakes that led to 9/11. >> we had more than 30 ambassador above engagement with

the taliban during the clinton administration. there are people who went to senior levels. who had written papers saying we should recognize the taliban. they withdrew them from public after 9/11. their careers continued as if they never made that mistake, the fact is that taliban out right lied to us uthey said they'd would close the terrorist training camps, and they would d -- they did not, it was imperative to not take them at their word. lara: we have done the same thing. >> yes, this is be what thing that drives he nuts. not simply that we're negotiations with the taliban as in 1990s, but in some cases negotiating with the same taliban. lara: same time. >> same people, and expecting different results, and every time i had an opportunity to ask people, who are negotiating, i

-- justed is what the evidence they have changed, i am assured no, don't worry they are more nationalistic they have

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>> i've been told one of reasons why for example u.s.e mains reluctance to provide air power

in afghan military, while battling the taliban in recent military push, the reason is they don't want the taliban to blow up the american embassy in kabul. isn't that allowing terrorists to feel empowered. >> yes, the afghan forces on the ground, who need help, it is there is nothing subtle about it. >> absolutely. lara: he is frank and it got him in trouble with his political masters back home in pakistan, he now lives here in exile,tioned by islamabad and and his new life is researching searchingwrites about islamic e. >> it remains a threat to the united states and also across

the world. the threat is not over. >> how many armies in the world are fighting islamic extremists? >> in many places all the way from the philippines to morocco. at least 30, 40 armies in the world face ordeal with insurgencies that have islamist extremist ideas boca haram. >> and we al qaeda in middle east, and small cells of various islamist organizations, operating in europe. lara: what americans hear of a little group here and there, they don't identify that as a threat, if you know they are all -- understand they are working toward same goal, does the threat look different. >> multiple extremist groups are one single oh, one group does not make a difference, the fact is the magnitude of the problem

is what it is. there are extremists, who can attack in different places. there are people who do not accept the values and they are willing to die for their belief including to the willingness to blow themselves up. have we accomplished a great deal since 9/11 in terms of building intelligence capability and understand, absolutely. have we eliminated the do you struggle with occasional nerve aches, weakness or discomfort in your hands or feet? introducing nervive nerve relief from the world's number 1 selling nerve care company. as we age, natural changes to our nerves occur which can lead to occasional discomfort. nervive contains b complex vitamins that nourish nerves, build nerve insulation and enhance nerve communication. and, alpha-lipoic acid, which relieves occasional nerve aches, weakness and discomfort. live your life with less nerve discomfort with nervive nerve relief.

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lara: probably single most important people to u.s. efforts were the afghan who stepped up to translate. without them the u.s. could not functioned. what happens now to these people? >> those who feel they have a specific threat, u.s. should keep its promise, make sure

they're relocated, u.s. protected those who fought alongside american soldiers in south vietnam there is no reason why u.s. should not keep a similar promise, if it does not there will be a new point where people try to turn people against america. lara: there is breaking news coming in. former vice president of afghanistan. saleh. >> i am not ready to be part of the -- humiliation and shame foreign militaries have endured, the war not over. lara: saleh is leading resistance with masoud, son of afghanistan's most famous commander, known as the lion of the -- >> i don't want to be alarmed or sound like only commodity i have

to sell in washington is the fear. that either you remain attached to me or you your way of life will be in danger. lara: you once said if the light goes out in america it goes out everywhere. >> america is a respected country. it means what it says, does what it says. we don't want america to slide. we want america to remain a great power. >> why? >> because it stands for values. it stands for principles. this is a generous nation, you see compassion, they share their food, knowledge, it open, they embrace you, you see humanity, you don't see much arrogance with human-to-human relationship. if you imagine and visualize the

day this gone, who will replace it? that is why america remaining super power from human perspective it is truly interest to humanitarian that america "fh chris wallace" is coming up next, thank you for watching, have an awesome day. >> i'm chris wallace as a u.s. rushes to evacuate americans and afghan partners from kabul, president biden reckons with a new reality. chaos near kabul airport as people desperately try to flee the taliban back at home the biden administration shifts explanations and point fingers over how quickly the afghanistan fell. >> it was nothing that i or anyone else all the indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11