i was never prompted. >> senator padilla? >> i think i had a female in the room at the olympic training center, but i can't say for sure. >> i feel like we all have the same people. >> if i recall, my direct communication was with a male in the room. >> okay. senator padilla? >> good morning. i want to start by thanking chairman durbin and all those who have made this hearing possible and to the panelists. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. i admire and respect each one of you for choosing to participate

today, for sharing your testimony with us. coming here today was not easy. i recognize that you each had the option of respectfully declining the invitation to be here. but you didn't. and i hope that you understand that your presence here is not just so important to the members of this committee and to the senate as a body, but also speaks volumes for the countless victims of abuse that are out there listening or watching, or will listen. or will watch. i appreciate the conversation about mental health that was prompted by the questions from senator booker. my wife is a very active mental health advocate, and so she has trained me well to be cognizant

of those issues and ask important and timely questions as well. miss biles, i hope you heard about our amplification of courage to take care of yourself. it took a lot. it took a lot at that moment. just going to offer a few comments. most of the questions that i would raise have been raised by my colleagues. do want to make it clear that mr. nassar's criminal case has been closed. we cannot and will not ignore the missteps that enabled his rampant misconduct. the power structure that shielded him has no place in america. not today, not in our future. and, if we're going to achieve the highest ideals of our nation, we talk about fairness and equality so often.

we won't just ask why. we cannot give up until we get the answers as to why this man was allowed to use his position of power to abuse for so long. we won't just ask why. we commit to getting the answers to why the initial investigation into these matters was bungled. lastly, we commit ourselves to building a justice system that holds powerful people -- learning from this particular case, but holds other powerful people accountable for their actions. so, again, my main message to you is to thank you. through your participation and what we will do, we hope to better protect future generations. >> thank you, senator.

>> thank you, all of you, for being here and being so direct with us and enduring this experience. just want to assure you that i have listened and heard what you're demanding. the burden shouldn't be on you to ensure there is no impunity in this case. the fbi, jay abbott and his subordinate, steve penney, usa gymnastics, u.s. olympic and paralympic committees. the burden is ours in the u.s. senate to see that there is a full investigation, that there's personal accountability and institutional accountability for abuse, enablement of abuse, neglectful and improper law enforcement conduct and i think compelling evidence of potential

obstruction of justice and official corruption in this case as well. so thank you again for your testimony. i'll make sure that each of you and your families' representatives have contact information for me and my office and continue to work with my colleagues to ensure that justice is done. thank you. >> thank you, senator osoff. miss biles, miss maroni, miss nichols, thanks for your testimony today. it was historic and it will make a difference in the lives of many people who are witnessing it. you don't have to wait for the judges to put numbers up on the board. you all were gold medallists today in the cause of justice. so thank you for joining us. you're discussed. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> harris: a live look inside the senate judiciary committee hearing that's been going on on

capitol hill is where olympic gymnasts are testifying on the fbi sex abuse investigation into disgraced usa gymnastics national team doctor larry nassar. the justice department found in july that the fbi made fundamental errors in its sex abuse investigation of nassar. in a bombshell move today, the agency fires the actual agent who conducted that probe. you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. we stuck with this. this started before the faulkner focus. we stuck with this. emily, there were times when we were gripped with fear and tears for these young women and what they've gone through. what is the legal ramification of what we're seeing today? >> emily: just to give background for viewers. absolutely. this is heartbreaking to watch. i can't imagine how heart

breaking it was for these young women to experience. this was essentially a catastrophic failure of an investigation conducted by the fbi. the probe opened technically in 2015 and it took months to interview some victims. maggie nichols testified today there was a failure to interview her for more than a year after her complaint. during the time of what was essentially a complete abdication and dereliction of duties on two fbi agents in particular from this field office. more than 100 additional victims, more than 100 additional young women i should say, became victims of larry nassar. as the young women testified today as well, this investigation's lack of follow through, of policy and protocol was compounded by dragging in usa gymnastics and the olympic committee's failure as well. so these girls were told, for example, by the olympic

committee, stay quiet, don't go to the press because this will interfere with the fbi investigation only to have learned, as they testified, there was no fbi investigation to begin with. one of our viewers says one of the agents resigned in 2019. one was sort of moved to an administrative position. but in another important take away is the fact that at the time, the inspector general declined or confirmed that there were declination to prosecute these two. this probe was a failure and now what is the resource going to be? >> harris: what is going on at the fbi? i have to say this. i can't hold this in. kayleigh, across now two presidents. you know christopher wray. i know you don't know him well. i said if you know the director of the fbi too well, you're probably being investigated by

him. you know him. what is happening? >> kayleigh: he is going to deliver a scathing statement. a lot of what we heard -- >> harris: he's coming up next. >> kayleigh: look, a lot of his accounting is going to have to be before his tenure. 2015 is when the claims were brought to the fbi. this is when comey was the fbi director. she said it took 14 months for them to even contact her. also mikayla maroni. the fbi eventually opened an investigation in 2016. still before christopher wray's tenure. he came into the fbi in 2017. he's going to have to account for a lot of what his predecessor did. >> harris: he's had four years since then. >> kayleigh: he will have to account for that. >> harris: many, many more victims. we've seen james comey on the

hill so many times. i think he's written books about it. the fbi has problems all the way down the line. they fire these two agents today. does that make a difference in holding the fbi accountable? >> no. i don't think. not from protocol perspective. not from the american public. certainly not from these women testifying today. keep in mind the investigation, the oig investigation, uncovered that these agents had outright lied to the fbi to cover up their willful -- >> harris: is that criminal? >> emily: yes, it is. not only declination to prosecute. not only for their actions but they lied. we've seen people prosecuted for longer for less. right? that's also a slap in the face. here we're obviously seeing the senate committee just portray their deepest condolences to these young women and this is a reprehensible investigation. what we need is action. at the end of that oig report

they also decided to change policy moving forward for the fbi when there were allegations of sexual abuse of minors that include mandatory reporting every 30 days. part of that aspect here that was so tragic, frankly, it was the long periods of just zero communication between these agents who they were supposed to be investigating and their headquarters. people expecting accountability from these guys. putting protocol aside, that doesn't account for this situation, right? and for these women relaying their trauma. >> harris: couple things there. each senator had about a minute to talk. not everybody -- they stopped asking questions because these women aren't on trial. the fact that they've come forward with so much to say is heartbreaking. look how much information they had to share. look at what they went through. they could still be talking. but, you know, there were times, senator ted cruz, senator corey booker, it was like there was no party but one party, the american party. and everybody was grieving and

offended by this. you saw klobuchar talk about maggie nichols. you saw cornyn talk directly to simone biles. he feels for all of them but particularly so proud of biles. so much that was shared. i gotta ask, is wrag? the horowitz in trouble? somebody's got to pay for this. >> emily: somebody has got to pay for this. allie said one statement that stuck out to me. we knew of the six accusers. he said one of the athletes was abused on film giving our abusers unfettered access to children. that should have been a priority. you sense the palpable visible pain that maybe this could have been stopped if we had our foot on the gas back in 2015. there needs to be accountability. i want to praise these young women, their courage, their

strength. it has to be incredibly painful to do this on a national stage, to come forward with this. to relive it. their courage should be commended. these young women are impressive. >> harris: they're amazing. all the courage that it takes to do the seems so supernatural when they're flying through the air. emily, at one point allie said when asked, i think senator durbin asked, if you wanted us to go further and do a next step, what would it be? she said you need to look at the connections between the usag that runs all of everything. the u.s. olympic and paralympic committee and the fbi. do you know what word came to mine? an actual case of collusion. is that what we're looking at? that's what she wants to do. she wants to know that when

those piece got together, that's really when the problems began for the gymnasts because there were penalties for speaking out within those organization and committees and participation. but then an investigation that they were promised was going on was not happening. did they collude with each other? >> emily: that fits in perfectly with what kayleigh was saying. keep in mind, allegations, formal complaints about this monster, go as far back as 1997. allegations of his abuse began in 1994. as far back as 1997 a parent raises concerns to the head, to the assistant professor at msu. in 1998, another student athlete raises concerns. nothing happened for the university. we know he molested 6-year-old for five years. her father ended up killing himself. the ripples of this are absolutely unending. the point is that it goes back to the mid '90s when people in

decision making capacities and positions of authority failed to take reports seriously. so you're right, that it goes far beyond the fbi and the absolutely reprehensible conduct of these two former agents that do not deserve to have that title, a title of honor attributed to their names anymore. it goes back to all of those communities. msu, and a whole bunch of organizations that you are supposed to trust your child's safety with. or at least think they would uphold a protocol of reporting allegations of abuse, reporting it up the chain. notifying the reports. we learn that those let down all of those women. there are hundreds of victims that could have been prevented. >> harris: so what you're saying is, what we're watching today is so critically important because, while there may not be people thrown in jail the way that we would like to see it, or there

may not be, you know -- i don't know what you would even offer. think about the coaches that also have been thrown into this, that were running reputable programs. and the young women who then left them as young, young, young, 6, 7-year-olds, to then move into a higher level, and then the exposure to dr. larry nassar and that usa team. think about having raised in your gym a child in your care and coaching, and then to watch this happen. i mean, you talk about collateral damage. there is so much. i do want to say what we're setting up for now. so the director of the fbi, christopher wray and the office of the inspector general, represented by the ig himself, horowitz, will be next, inside that senate judiciary committee. and as they begin to get set, i do want to quickly -- we'll have to go very fast when they walk

in the room and start talking. i want to quickly, kayleigh, get your thoughts about what you want to hear from those two. >> kayleigh: we're going to hear a backward looking account of what happened. we anticipate reporting a scathing statement from wray. i think there needs to be a forward look. one of the senators brought forward a very important point. is the fbi equipped to handle sexual abuse cases? you came into a really bad system. what have you done since then to make sure this never happens again? >> harris: we're looking at live shots. did you hear the resume and all the national titles of the women? mikayla maroni, people know her from the geico commercials. allie. these are young women who have been part of our just incredible

talent of athletics for years. you saw simone biles walking. you see them with the opening statement of the director of the fbi, christopher wray. let's watch. >> this morning, ms. biles, ms. maroni, ms. nichols, ms. raiseman, who were among the many nassar hurt. i'm deeply and profoundly sorry to each and every one of you. i'm sorry for what you and your families have been through. i'm sorry that so many different people let you down over and over again. and i'm especially sorry that there were people at the fbi who had their own chance to stop this monster back in 2015 and failed. and that is inexcusable. it never should have happened. we're doing everything in our

power to make sure it never happens again. now, before i became fbi director, i was generally familiar with the nassar story. shortly after his arrest, in 2016. i remember even then being appalled that there were so many people who had failed to do their jobs and keep these young women safe from that predator. but after i became fbi director and when i learned that there were people at the fbi who had also failed these women, i was heart sick and furious. i immediately ordered a special review by our inspection division to try to get to the bottom of it. that review led in part to the inspector general's own review. i'm grateful to inspector general horowitz for his team's extensive and independent work. i want to be crystal clear. the actions and inaction of the fbi employees detailed in this

report are totally unacceptable. these individuals betrayed the core duty that they have of protecting people. they failed to protect young women and girls from abuse. the work we do certainly is often complicated and uncertain. we're never going to be perfect. but the kinds of fundamental errors that were made in this case, in 2015 and 2016 should never have happened period. and as long as i'm the fbi director, i'm committed to doing everything in my power to make sure they never happen again. the fbi cannot carry out its vital mission of protecting the american people without trust. in this case, fbi agents, certain fbi agents broke that trust repeatedly and inexcusably. and to pretend otherwise would be yet one more insult to the

survivors. failures like the ones that happened in this case threaten the very confidence we rely on every day to keep people safe. i want to make sure the public knows that the reprehensible conduct reflected in this report is not representative of the work that i see from our 37,000 folks every day. the actions instead of the agents in this report are a discredit to all those men and women who do the job the right way, with uncompromising integrity, the way the american people rightly expect and deserve. throughout my career as a prosecutor and now at the bureau, i have found that the agents and officers who investigate crimes against children and sex crimes are among the most compassionate and fiercely dedicated out there. i suspect a number of you on the committee have had the same experience on your end.

i am grateful to the women who came forward today so that i can say to everyone that there is no more important work in law enforcement than helping victims of abuse. it's work that's got to get done right, every single time. it is essential that we do everything we can to ensure that victims continue to come forward with confidence that their reports are going to be thoroughly and aggressively investigated. big part of that is accountability in holding our folks to the highest standard our work requires. when i received the inspector general's report and saw that the supervisor special agent in indianapolis had failed to carry out even the most basic parts of the job, i immediately made sure he was no longer performing the functions of the special agent. i can now tell you that that individual no longer works for the fbi in any capacity.

as for the former indianapolis special agent in charge, the descriptions of his behavior also reflect violations of the fbi's longstanding code of conduct and the ethical obligations for all fbi employees, especially senior officials. now that individual has been gone from the bureau for about 3 1/2 years, having retired in january of 2018 before any review launched. i will say, i will say it is extremely frustrating that we are left with little disciplinary recourse when people retire before their cases can be adjudicated. but let me be clear. people who engaged in that kind of gross misconduct have no place in the fbi. i can also assure you that the fbi's response is not limited to dealing with those who failed so profoundly back in 2015. to make sure that something like

this never happens again, we've already begun fully implementing all of the inspector general's recommendations. that includes strengthening our policies and procedures, strengthening our training to firmly under score the critical importance of thoroughly and expeditiously responding to all allegations of sexual assault or abuse. because, as i said a moment ago, the american people are counting on us to get this done right every time. and finally, i'd like to make a promise to the women who appeared here today, and to all survivors of abuse. i am not interested in simply addressing this wrong and moving on. it's my commitment to you that i and my entire senior leadership team are gonna make damn sure everybody at the fbi remembers what happened here in heartbreaking detail. we need to remember the pain

that occurred when our folks failed to do their jobs. we need to study it. we need to learn from it. that is the best way i know to make sure that this devastating tragedy is never repeated. so thank you, mr. chairman, ranking member grassley and members of the committee for the opportunity to testify today. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. inspector general horowitz. >> thank you, chairman durbin, ranking member grassley, members of the committee. i also want to begin my testimony by recognizing the many courageous gymnasts who came forward to report larry nassar's abuses and by thanking ms. biles, ms. maroni, ms. nichols and ms. raiseman for their compelling testimony today. these gymnasts have showed remarkable bravery in detailing the sexual assaults they

endured, at the same time they were competing at the highest levels for our country. they did so with the beliefs that their actions would save other young women and girls from the serial abuse they endured. sadly, as detailed in our report, the response of the fbi agents who received that information, betrayed their law enforcement responsibilities and their duties to these victims. nassar's abuses should have been caught sooner if appropriate action had been taken. not only did that not occur, but after the agents' failures came to light, records falsely summarized the testimony. further, when called to account for their actions, two of the agents lied to our investigators. the lig was able to investigate and identify these failures only because of the courage of the athletes who spoke to our investigators. what they did was extraordinarily difficult and i want to thank them for their cooperation and strength in

coming forward and speaking to us. because of their actions, critical reforms are being undertaken to ensure events such as these do not occur again. let me briefly just summarize the results of our investigation. in july 2015, usa gymnastics rorlted sexual assault allegations to the indianapolis field office. usa gymnastics officials described graphic information that had been provided and informed the fbi that all three athletes were available to be interviewed. however, it wasn't until six weeks later, september 2nd, the indianapolis office interviewed ms. maroni and neither did nichols nor ms. raceman were ever interviewed. the indianapolis office did not formally document its interview of ms. maroni at the time or its july meeting with usa gymnastics. the office didn't formally open an investigation or an

assessment of the matter. immediately following that september 2nd interview the indianapolis office and local federal prosecutors concluded there was no venue in indianapolis for the federal investigation. both offices also had serious questions as to whether there was federal criminal jurisdiction as opposed to state or local jurisdiction. yet the indianapolis field office didn't advise state or local authorities about the allegations and didn't take any actions to mitigate the risks to gymnasts that nassar was continuing to treat. further, that office failed to transfer the case to the fbi office that actually might have had been. after eight months of inactivity and may 2016, usa gymnastics officials contacted the fbi's los angeles office to report the same allegations it had provided to the indianapolis office. following this meeting the l.a. office opened a federal

investigation and under took numerous investigative steps. but, critically, it didn't contact state or local authorities and didn't take action to mitigate on going threat presented by nassar. it wasn't until august 2016 when michigan state university police, that police department, received a separate sexual assault complaint from another gymnast. in september 2016, the next month, the msu police department executed a court authorized search of nassar's residence. among other things they seized devices containing over 30,000 images of child pornography. according to civil court documents, approximately 70 or more young athletes were allegedly sexually abused by nassar under the guise and medical treatment between july 2015 when the fbi first received allegations until 2016.

we further found in the fbi's handling of the matter came under scrutiny in 2017 and 2018, indianapolis officials provided inaccurate information to make it appear that they had actually been diligent in their follow-up efforts and did so in part by blaming others. this didn't accurately reflect what she had told them and could have actually jeopardized the criminal investigations by providing, by including false information that could have bolstered nassar's defense. further, we concluded that that agent made false testimony, statements to the oig in two interviews that we conducted. we also learned during our investigation that in the fall of 2015, the indianapolis

special agent in charge, jay abbott, met with usa gymnastics president at a bar and discussed the potential job opportunity with the u.s. olympic committee. there after, abbott engaged with penney about both his interest in the u.s. olympic committee job and the nassar investigation. while at the same time participating in the nassar investigation with the fbi. he applied for the job but wasn't selected. we determined abbott's actions violated the fbi's clear conflict of interest policy. we also found that abbott made false statement in two interviews we conducted. i want to conclude my testimony where i started it by recognizing the courage and bravery of the extraordinary gymnasts that we heard from today and that we've heard from and that came before law enforcement in other settings. their persistence and strength

are an example to all of us who work in the area of accountability and want to promote accountability. although the sexual abuses by nassar and the inadequate response by the fbi agents cannot be undone, these athletes commitment to justice and their pursuit of accountability for all involved in this deeply tragic series of events will improve our institution ultimately and will help ensure federal law enforcement respond and appropriate and timely way to reports of sexual abuse in the future. our report recommends several important necessary forms as director wray indicated. the fbi is taking them. we will continue to conduct our independent oversight to make sure they are implemented. thank you, and i am pleased to answer any questions that you may have. >> thank you very much, inspector general horowitz. and thank you for your excellent

work, as usual, in this report. director wray, i have to touch you personally, not only in your official capacity, but even just as a parent, to listen to these young women tell stories of what they have been through. what strikes me here is that doesn't seem to ever have been a sense of urgency or immediacy in that indianapolis field office. the july reporting leading to the september attempt, vain attempt to change venue on the case to lansing, which didn't happen. and then the later report in los angeles and then they sat on it. what am i missing here? this is like a child kidnapping case. this man is son the loose molesting children and it appears that it's being lost in the paperwork of the agency. >> well, needless to say, i share your reactions. i share your bewilderment.

i share your outrage. on a personal note, not just as a parent, or a brother or a husband, but as somebody whose first introduction to law enforcement was working as an intern in a d. a.'s office in a unit specifically focused on these crimes. that's part of what motivated me to pursue a career in law enforcement in the first place. and i don't have a good explanation for you. it is utterly jarring to me. it is totally inconsistent with what we train our people on, totally inconsistent from what i see on the hundreds of agents who work these cases every day. that's why that individual has been fired. >> understood. but you also heard ms. maroni talk about -- i can't imagine this. three hours she's sitting on her bedroom floor going through an interview which you can tell was by a person, who ever it was,

totally insensitive to this young woman's tragic experience. what has the fbi learned from that? in terms of cases of this insensitivity. to at least have interviewers who say there are certain words you better be careful with. >> thank you for that question. it illustrates something important o important that we put in place. we have child adolescent forensic better views. these are interviewers who are specially trained in the unique sensitivities of what it takes to interview people, victims, survivors of these kinds of crimes. one of the reforms that we've put in place is to make crystal clear a policy that interviews of individuals like ms. raiseman should be conducted with those kinds of interviewers. and they should not be conducted telephonically. they should be conducted in

person, whenever possible. we've made it more clear now. we're putting mandatory training in place, which has already been completed, to ensure that that occurs. that's a partial answer to your question on that one. >> general horowitz, did any of the fbi employees or agents involved in this case deliberately misrepresent any facts to you in your investigation? >> they did. we found both that the person who wrote the report that ms. maroni testified about, falsely testified to us about what he did in connection with that report. as well as other matters that we asked them about. special agent abbott made false statements to us about the steps he took in 2015 when these allegations came in. but also about the efforts with the u.s. olympic committee. >> did these reach the level of criminal violation? >> well, we found they violated criminal law sufficiently, what

we do at that point is make the referral to prosecutors to assess them because that's who needs to make the decision whether or not there will be charges brought. >> director wray, what happened next? >> as inspector general horowitz said, those were referred to the prosecutors at the justice department. they're the ones that made the decision, as i understand it from inspector general horowitz's report, the prosecutors at the justice department on two separate occasions, both in 2020 and then again in 2021, declined to prosecute. i really would defer to the justice department. >> were you personally aware of any facts or circumstances that would lead to that decision? >> i am not. >> well, it is outrageous. i am sorry because i have a great faith in this attorney general and the department of justice. but when we ask them to bring someone in to explain this today, they refused and said they wouldn't attend.

i understand that it's procedure in the department and has to go into the basis for deciding not to pursue prosecution, but this is, on its face, obvious that these agents not only were derelict in their duty, when it came to these young women, but all did their best to cover up what had happened. that is inexcusable from where i'm standing. let me ask you this finally, director wray. i'm going to accept your profession of real caring. i believe it is real caring about what happened in this circumstance today. what can you tell me if it happened tomorrow would be different? >> so there's a whole bunch of things we've done differently. first, we've accepted every one of inspector horowitz recommendation and then some. we've already begun implementing all of those.

we are strengthening policies. we're strengthening procedures. we're strengthing our systems, all building in double checks, triple checks, safe guards, oversight. different ways of making sure that we cannot have, as occurred here in certain instances, a single point of failure. that's one of the lessons here that's totally unacceptable. so part of what's built in is a bunch of, as i said, double or triple, even quadruple checks to make sure that doesn't happen, both in terms of how the initial reports of handled, the appropriate urgency there. but also in terms of communication. one of the important recommend eights is reporting to state and local law enforcement, as well as communications between field office, transfers between field offices. i can go into detail about any of those. but those are part of it. there's some things that occurred here that are so basic and so fundmental and so

foreclosed by our policies. we have clear policies on a lot of these things. i have tried to make clear in very stern language to not just the leadership team of the fbi that on no planet is this acceptable. >> it seems a lot of the decisions were being pinned on whether or not there was alleged violation of sex tourism statute. why is that such an exclusive remedy that if you're not on all fours with that, in fact, the fbi agent felt they were constrained to do anything? >> well, i'm not steeped in the particulars of the sex tourism statute in the way that i used to be. what i would say, one of the things we try to make clear to people is that we don't want

people getting wrapped around the axle about federal jurisdiction issues at the front end. part of what needs to happen, while they're figuring that out, in consultation with the prosecutors, which is what should have been happened they need to make sure they are reporting to state and local law enforcement on a parallel track. >> thank you. senator grassley? >> please give me a minute before the clock starts to ask unanimous consent to include in the record letters that i have sent over the last few years that show the nonresponsiveness of the fbi to our inquiries on this subject. >> without objection. >> second one would be a little unrelated to this, but deals with the unresponsiveness of director wray in regard to -- so i hope the committee will listen to this as well.

i have asked mr. wray to talk to me about a troubling believing that i received from the fbi and was weaponized against my and senator johnson's oversight. director wray and his staff have ignored my requests to meet, mimicking the pattern here at the nassar case, nonresponsiveness. without objection, i'd like to introduce into the record at the hearing today an e-mail thread illustrating the fbi's nonresponsiveness to my request. this e-mail shows the great length that i went to to get a meeting with director wray. now my question to director wray. the inspector general's report shows that jay abbott, a senior official in the indianapolis field office at fbi, was allowed

to retire in 2018 and evade prosecution even though this report describes misconduct by him and an agent under his supervision. i have asked that the attorney general reconsider the decision not to file charges against some of the individuals involved in the case. i would like you to provide this committee with a list of all disciplinary actions that took place with respect to fbi personnel who were the subject of this investigation. i believe that you owe that, at the very least, to the victims of today's hearing. >> well, we can provide the committee with whatever information we can. certainly, as i have already testified here today, the special agent, supervisory special agent who features so prominently in inspector horowitz' report, i can confirm

has been terminated. as to the former special agent in charge, he retired before this review commenced, before we learned the extent of his misconduct. much to my frustration. and as to the decision whether or not to prosecute either individual, i would respectfully refer over to the justice department, which i think is where, senator grassley, you said your letter was appropriately directed. >> i'd like you to cooperate in assuring that the prosecution of those individuals who failed these victims and give us your commitment that you would go to the justice department again to try to get that done. >> well, i'm happy to do whatever would be appropriate. in this particular case, the criminal investigation that was conducted, the case agents, as it were, were from inspector

general horowitz office, which i think is as appropriate. so that's really a discussion between his office and the justice department. but if i can be a constructive part of that, given how strongly i feel, as i hope the committee can tell, i'm happy to do whatever i can that would be appropriate. >> next question, why didn't the children's unit at headquarters play a greater supervisory or coordination role here? for example, by ensuring that the correct office at fbi handled this matter, and why didn't it follow up to ensure that the indianapolis office had referred to the matter to an fbi office that had jurisdiction over these allegations? >> well, i want to be careful not to try to paraphrase too much inspector general horowitz' report, since he's really the master of the facts here. as i understand it, among the things that happened here were

that the indianapolis folks most responsible concealed information from certain people at headquarters at different stages. that's part of the problem. we have implemented changes now that go to the point that you're getting at, which is the transfers between field offices. we've built in a number of additional checks. one of those three or four additional checks that we've built in now gives headquarters program management visibility which is there to monitor so they can ensure, as a second, third, fourth check, to ensure that the work is being followed up on and the transfer is appropriately handled. >> did anyone at the fbi headquarters consult with indianapolis and los angeles offices about notifying state and local authorities about the allegations against nassar? >> i don't know the answer to that, but inspector general horowitz did the investigation, so i'll let him speak to the

facts. >> senator, i'm not aware of discussions about referring to state and local authorities. >> director wray, how far did knowledge of the nassar investigation extend within the fbi headquarters in 2015? >> my understanding of the most senior individual involved, based on looking at the thorough and independent investigation of inspector general horowitz was that the most senior individual with knowledge and responsibility was the special agent in charge in indianapolis, mr. abbott. but again, i would defer to inspector general horowitz on that. >> was the director aware of the nassar matter at any time in or before calendar year 2016? >> i don't know the answer to that, sir. maybe inspector horowitz does. >> prior to 2017, did the fbi

headquarters follow up with its field offices about the status of the nassar investigation and whether further federal investigation was needed? >> senator, there was in 2016 some dialogue about that, but as we described in our report, the fbi policies don't require the level of detail and reporting to the headquarters unit that would, for example, put the responsibility directly on them to have notified state and local authorities. >> senator leahy? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm glad director wray, that you are here. but conclusions we have here are

-- i suppose a nice way to say it is they're troubling. they're damning. they're horrible. i think of the young women who testified here today, what they went through. i don't see where they can get much solace out of listening to this, and what the american people feel. senator grassley just mentioned mr. horowitz said about jay abbott, named in the ig report. he retired. was that a forced retirement? >> it was not. >> did he ever face any possibility of prosecution? >> we referred our findings to the department's prosecutors for consideration about the false statements that he made to us in our interviews. >> by consideration, do you make a recommendation when you do that? >> we don't make a formal recommendation. as you know, as a former

prosecutor, there are informal discussions. but ultimately, the responsibility for the decision is with the prosecutors. i wrote a couple about the fbi director statement about what he would do if he were the prosecutor. i'm not about to jump in and take someone else's responsibility. >> i understand that. when i was a prosecutor and law enforcement sent their investigation, i had to make the final decision, of course. but i think a number of people get charged for lying to the fbi agents, and we've seen such charges being brought in area, everything from organized crime on. it is troubling to me to see that an fbi agent lied, broke the law, knew he was breaking the law and nothing happens.

i understand the procedures, but it bothers me greatly the failures by the fbi field office in indianapolis, delayed the starting investigation of larry nassar on sexual assault of over 100 victims. and everybody, i don't care where they are in the political spectrum or the aisle, had to be torn apart listening to the testimony of these victims this morning. i know pitches -- i was. we talked about miss raisman's testimony. she didn't have a parent or a lawyer present when she was being questioned.

director wray, is that procedure? i realize this happened before you were director. i'm asking you about changes in procedure. today, would she have a parent or lawyer present with her? >> well, that would be a discussion between the agents and her and her parents. one of the things that, as i said, that we changed, is to step up the emphasis on cafi, child adolescent forensic interviewers. i cannot stress enough how important it is to view these kinds of interviews as a very unique kind of interview. there's all sorts of sensitivities. we heard a lot about it in a very powerful way from the women who testified here this morning. the point you made about parents, etc, that's part of one of those many sensitivities. that's why it's so important to

have interviews done by or at least heavily involving these child adolescent forensic interviewers. that's why we have that program. that's why the policy has been strengthened, to require them. that's why we've discouraged as much as possible, telephonetic interviews in these kinds of cases. one of the other helpful points that came out of inspector general horowitz report is the clarification that that should also take into account women who are adults at the time of the interview, but who were victimized when they were minors. because that is its own kind of unique sepb-- sensitivity. we're trying to avoid the heart breaking insensitivity that you just eluded to. >> supervisor a special agent in indianapolis, michael linesman, has now been fired.

have there been recommendations -- what took so long to fire him, i might ask? >> well, we waited for the report. one of the things that i want to make sure is we don't have a situation where two wrongs make a right. so we waited until we had the inspector general's independent report. we followed our disciplinary process. he's been fired. >> did he contest the firing? >> i probably can't get into that discussion here. i want to be sensitive about privacy act concerns and so forth. >> mr. horowitz, if you can say, has there been a recommendation that he be prosecuted? >> again, what happened in these discussions generally are interactions with the prosecutors. we don't make a formal recommendation to the prosecutors. i think you'd have to have the department officials speak to that issue. >> i'll just close and say, a

whole lot of people should be prosecuted here, besides nassar, obviously, should be prosecuted. i'm thinking some of the people within the athletic field that were aware of this and turned a blind eye to this and did nothing to it, allowed all of these victims to be there. i'm not talking about people in government, but people even outside. there's a whole lot of people who should be in prison. i'm glad he's in prison. i can tell you, frankly, as a parent, as a grandparent, there's a hell of a lot more i'd like to see in prison. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. senator feinstein. >> thanks very much, mr. chairman. gentlemen, when this report was released, that's the ig report, on july 14, the fbi publicly

promised, quote, to take all necessary steps to ensure that the failure of the employees outlined in the report do not happen again. that's a direct quote and an important promise. can you please describe the specific steps, specific steps, the fbi has taken -- >> harris: we want to pull away from the senate judiciary committee meeting. we heard from the four survivors of sexual abuse, representing so many other women and usa gymnastic. among them, simone biles, aly raisman. now on the hot seat is the director of the fbi now. he hasn't been there the entire time that this case has played out against that monster doctor, larry nassar, who did such horrible things to those young women. but he's been there four years of this. the inspector general horowitz is there, too. so the two of these men -- and i gotta tell you, kayleigh and emily, just seconds ago, and we

said, we got to come out and talk about this a bit. when senator leahy said, i want to see a whole lot of people go to prison, what was he talking about? and you can just hear a hushed quiet inside that committee room. >> he was referring to the failure on the part of so many fbi agents, decision making, authority capacities and the handling of the investigation and probe into larry nassar. he was talking about the lying before this committee, the failure on the part of supervisory agents at headquarters to oversee the behavior of these field agents. he said, how did you not know they were lying? how did you not know they were concealing? how did you not know they were failing in their protocol? how did you not know they were conducting three hour phone interviews with a minor? the list goes on. he demanded accountability in such a clear way before he said there are many who should be in prison. >> harris: can we hear just a little bit of simone biles? for people who may have missed.

>> the horrific abuse continues to live with all of us. as a lone competitor in the recent tokyo games who is a survivor of this horror i can ensure you the impact of this man's abuse are not ever over or forgotten. the announcement in the spring of 2020 that the tokyo games were to be postponed meant that i would be going to the gym to train, to therapy, living daily among the reminders of this story for another 365 days. >> absolutely heartbreaking. mc kayla maroney said she wants to see prosecution. they knew about child abuse and did nothing. we heard dick durbin say, if you knew a child had been kidnapped, you would act. you'd act immediately. you would not delay for 14 months interviewing some of these women. incredible comparison that he made. >> harris: if you knew it was happening over and over again, that's an epidemic.

you didn't treat this like that. >> the pattern is so horrifying to us. that's what these young women said today. they also said my abuse was enough. mckayla maroney said it specifically. if they weren't trying to protect me, who were they trying to protect? why was one credible allegation of abuse not enough? these women were traumatized over and over. >> harris: we've got about a minute before we wrap. there was a theme today among lawmakers' questions for wray and horowitz. why are people then, even though they left, why was 2018 a year that you let one of the perpetrators retire? >> that's right. that's why these women are demanding accountability from all of these organizations. >> harris: usa gymnastics, olympics, paralympics. >> wray said we are limited in the disciplinary measures we can

take. so put it to congress to pass laws that you can retroactively call someone back. >> harris: what say you, kayleigh, you said they waited until today to fire people. wow. that's gonna do it for us. here's america reports. >> thank you, harris. bombshell allegations in final days much the trump presidency. milley called chinese officials and promised to warn them of a potential attack. good afternoon, on a busy wednesday afternoon, i'm sandra smith, hello, john.