home tonight. that is it for this "special report" fair balanced and still unafraid. we got it all n one hour. we usually do. sometimes we can take two. but "fox news primetime" always comes next. this week hosted by lawrence jones. lawrence? >> lawrence: brother, great show today. thank you so much. good evening and welcome to "fox news primetime." ♪ ♪ >> lawrence: i'm lawrence jones in new york. and tonight the media elites have left the world know how they really know. if you don't agree with them, then you are just simply stupid. >> i think we have to stop coddling people when it comes to this and the vaccine thing oh you can't shame them. you can't call them stupid. you can't call them -- yes, they are. i'm not here to talking about name-calling or fight on twitter. i'm here to talk about meeting people where they are. so i hope that nikki minaj does talk to those doctors. that she gets educated and through this her fans are educated as well. >> lawrence: why is he so mad?

i guess nicki minaj is making a lot of people angry this week all because of a tweet she posted expressing skepticism over the covid vaccine. the fact that she simply told people to do their own research made likely ally to tucker carlson and millimeter number one to the supposed black thought leaders in the mainstream media. >> this is not the woman you want to get your information from. [laughter] she is a wonderful girl. she makes great music. i would not take any advice from her about getting a shot. >> you have a platform, sister, that is 22 million followers. okay? i have 2 million followers. you have 22 million followers on twitter. for you to use your platform to encourage our community to not protect themselves and save their lives, my god, sister, you can do better than that oh my god, as a fan, as a hip hop fan, as somebody who is your fan? i'm so sad that you did that. so sad that you did that, sister. oh my god.

>> lawrence: do you hear that, sister? you know better, stay in your lane. and the fact that she brought up nikki's twitter following is telling. nicki minaj doesn't need joy reid, she doesn't need anybody. she is a self-made super star who gained all 22 million of those followers for being unapologetic in herself. and don't get me wrong. joy reid loves that she has this platform. only when she is sharing opinions approved by the black thought leaders. the breakfast club has some thoughts. >> i respect joy reid she missed the real moment to teach yesterday, will nicky never said don't take the vaccine. >> you can't vaccination shame people either. have you got to allow people make it when they want to make their own decision. this is something that's new and we don't know about every other day something changes. something is different. we don't know about how this effects. where double marries, wear triple masks, wear triple masks, you can't go out. nobody knows. >> lawrence: you guys made good

point. i'm with you all. you are missing the bigger picture. joy reid thits nici should only use her microphone to rap. sound like joy reid wants her to shut up and dribble. when you break from the opinion of the black elites even if you are representing the thoughts and concerns of most black americans, you become a threat. and how do you deal with that threat? you shame them like they always do. and i get it. we're supposed to think a certain way and any time we go against the grain, there is the worry that we may be rejected. because at the end of the day, everybody wants to be invited to the cookout. let me ask you the question whose cookout do you want to go to? do you want to go to nici's or joy reid? we all know nobody wants to go to don's. editorial director at the daily caller and jason nichols african-american professor and co-host of vince and jason save the nation podcast. gentlemen, welcome to the program. jason, i'm going to go to you. >> thank you.

>> lawrence: you are a reasonable brother. why the shaming? why the personal attacks over a point of view that a lot of black folks share? >> yeah, it is true that there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy amongst african-americans. i have actually written about this on the daily caller and i think that there are a lot of directions come from, as far as the shaming, i don't necessarily think him saying that i disagree with somebody is shaming. and i think also everybody who is coming to her rescue doesn't realize that nicki minaj is battle rapper. she can take criticism. >> lawrence: of course she can. >> i think that's okay. people criticizing her and i think that's part of open discourse and open dialogue. people criticize you. people criticize me. and i don't think we get super sensitive about that. i think that people are concerned about the fact that african-americans are three times more likely to be hospitalized from covid-19. twice as likely to die from it. so, with people with large

platforms, you and i don't necessarily have as large a platform but we are working on events. we think that you have a responsibility with that platform and it's not necessarily that she said make your own decisions. i think everybody agrees that that's the right way to go about it i think the thing about her cousin's friend in trinidad with the testicles swelling up. i think that people were concerned that that might have been misinformation. and i think even the foreign minister, the health minister in trinidad actually came out and said that he had no reports of that. so i think that was the concern. and i think that, you know, nicki minaj -- >> lawrence: the bottom line is this. the bottom line is this i don't need to defend nick di. she is a queen she has been handling herself and new york to be a lore long time. the black elites arrive and you know this to be true, they have a tendency of looking down on the people that are from the

streets and saying they don't have the information. some people, i'm vaccinated as well. who gives a damn? some people just don't want to take the vaccine and they have legitimate concerns from not taking the vaccine and that should be okay, right? >> yeah, i think, you know, the information is available. i think anybody can find it anybody with a phone can find that. and i think it's pretty clear 670,000 americans have died and there are only three deaths as of july that i could find that could be traced directly to the vaccine and it was all j and j. so i definitely think that the information is available. people can find the information and make the decisions for themselves. i also think from the conservative side -- go ahead, vince. >> lawrence: you jump in, vince. >> here's the problem. nicki minaj never said she was anti-vaccine. she never said she was opposed to the vaccine. she was lied about to the press instantly. the second she expressed skepticism. the second she expressed to people all she said to people

pray on it, do your own research and come to your own decision. that is a normal american opinion about literally everything that you do in your life. she said those words. the headlines went crazy. they referred to her as anti-vaccination. they suggested that she was trying to encourage people not to get it. it became a five alarm fire at the white house. they called her and said if you would like to have a phone call, we are going to set one up. we will try -- they want to reprogram her now. they want to make sure she is not saying the wrong things in public. she is standing up for freedom. and she. >> lawrence: they took her twitter down. >> you said it right. look. she built a career off of speaking her mind and i think more americans need to follow that particular example. so, you know, remember, this is as she said in her own critically acclaimed hit super based she is nicki minaj, she backs up and shut the deuce up. >> lawrence: jason? >> i think, again, the problem and what got her a call from the white house, i guess, was not the fact that she said make your

own decisions. i think everybody like i said can agree with that it's when she is telling stories about people's testicles getting too large. >> lawrence: she can say whatever she wants. >> i think that, again, is going to lead to people making dangerous decisions. >> lawrence: is she a doctor? is she a doctor? >> again, people have the right to criticize. you are right. but what i'm saying is -- people have the right to be critical of that. just like she has the right to say it. so, i think. >> can i jump in here? >> lawrence: listen, jason, the problem is not being critical. the problem is not having a debate and bringing nicki on to have a discussion about it. that's not what they're doing. >> i agree. >> they are shaming saying we are smarter, right? we know better. meanwhile black america a lot of people feel that way. and so instead of speaking to the issue, they choose to shame a person. by the way, nicki has more followers than her, why would you even have that grenade out

there when you know the people are going to side with nicki at the end of the day. >> lawrence. >> let me get one last thing in here real quick. >> would love to have nicki on. >> i would love to talk to nicki minaj. >> lawrence: last word. >> here is where jason nichols and i agree i for this. if the government wants us to trust them stop lying to us about everything else. don't lie to us about the war in iraq and war in afghanistan and don't lie to us about herd immunity and trump rickenbacker collusion don't lie to us over and over and say trust us on this one. thanks. i will do my own research and pray on it and come to my own conclusion like nicki minaj. >> lawrence: thank you so much. host of kennedy joins me now. kennedy, you know, me and you got the vaccination. >> sure. >> lawrence: and i have had this conversation with a lot of people because they wonder why i'm so upset on this issue. when you start having mandates and suppressing people's freedom, then i get a little upset about that. >> absolutely. but, you know, it's like what is

happening with nicki minaj is very similar to what happened to kanye west when he went and visited donald trump and the white house. and then you have this massive chorus of people. it just activates the mob. and they are not concerned about the facts. they are not concerned about what he really said. they are not asking can curiosity that's what don lemon needs to do. he needs to curiously say why are there so many people in my community not getting vaccinated? where is this skepticism coming from? have hand honest conversation about it vince is right it's coming from the federal government. it's coming from the misinformation and disinformation that they have put outen every issue time and time again. >> lawrence: it's misinformation and it is the tuskegee project. when government does it wrong and doesn't right that wrong, people forget that my grandmother told me those stories. don lemon in that same clip shamed people and said meet them where they're. you cannot shame people and then all of a sudden try to reel them back in. it just doesn't work that way. >> no. that's the opposite. you are asking people to do the

opposite thing at the same time. and that's impossible. so if you want to have a conversation. want to meet people. then you have to try to figure out where they are coming from. when you shame people, you are trying to suppress their ideas and their skepticism. and anthony fauci i still do want to hear the conversation that he is going to have with nicki minaj like nicki the testicle swelling did not come from the vaccine. it came from your friend who wasn't wearing a mask. so he has to wear two masks on his face and one on his testicles. however big they may be we have a mask that big. brought to you by nabisco. >> lawrence: you are always so good at this. >> oh, lawrence. >> lawrence: kennedy before i let you go i do want to talk about this i think freedom is under attack. no matter where you stand on the issue, you got to be able to -- honestly, i don't know what nicki minaj's politics is. i don't care. but she does have the right to say what she's to say on any topic. >> why does an opinion have to be a political statement?

you know, she is not staking her flag. she is not claiming a hill. she is just saying i don't know if i trust this. she just had a baby. i know a lot of people who are child-bearing age who are putting off getting the vaccine until they are done having kids for whatever reason. and maybe there are a bunch of myths floating around out there. do you know who is best to dispel those myths? not the people who might have grant and misdirection brought the vaccine to this country like anthony fauci but your doctor, your own doctor. that's the kind of person that you should be talking to and getting your information to somebo situation and your body. >> lawrence: i'm not a doctor. i'm not giving this audience medical advice. i tell them about my experience because i like being transparent with my audience. i'm not going to give people advice on something i don't know. go to the people that you trust on a day-to-day basis to treat you. >> absolutely. >> do you know what i did lawrence as a favor to you? i put off shifting my show kennedy on the fox business network until next week. we're going to be on at 7:00 p.m. >> lawrence: okay. >> starting monday i didn't do

in this week, lawrence, i had your back and your front. >> lawrence: i knew you were -- you are like nicki the queen of fox business. coming up the first domino falling in this investigation why this indictment proves that the media and democrats have been lying all along about the russia collusion. that and much more next. ♪ you don't become a runner, who breaks eight world records... after age 65, without a serious support system. kathy martin has one in medicare from blue cross blue shield. she won't go a day without the right card. because she can't go a day without running. the medicare coverage trusted by more doctors. this is the benefit of blue. learn more at benefitofblue.com. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high you know how i feel ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel ♪ [man: coughing]

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in business, it's never just another day. it's the big sale, or the big presentation. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. the day where everything goes right. or the one where nothing does. with comcast business you get the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses and advanced cybersecurity to protect every device on it— all backed by a dedicated team, 24/7. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. >> lawrence: so today jonathan durham woke from his slumber and dropped a bomb. indicting a lawyer with ties to hillary clinton's campaign for his alleged role in the russian collusion scam. certainly makes it look like this whole thing was a political hit job on donald trump. and all of these democrats and journalists were either in on it or dumb enough to believe it. >> the president is a russian operative. >> russia offered help.

the campaign accepted help. the russians gave help. and the president made full use of that help. >> this cloud about conclusion with russia will hang over him no matter where he stands. >> the evidence is pretty clear that there was collusion between the trump campaign and the russians. >> it does look like collusion. it does look like he is listening to putin more than he is american intelligence. >> we're about to find out if the new president of our country is going to do what russia wants. >> the presidency is effectively a russian op. >> lawrence: right. when in reality it was all smoke in mirrors to distract from the real collusion which was happening between the clinton campaign and the dnc and russia, of course. according to the special counsel durham attorney michael sussmann lied to the fbi when it came to them in 2016 claiming to have evidence linking trump to the russians at a bank. sussmann claimed it was a tip from a cybersecurity expert who had nothing to do with hillary clinton. even though he worked for her.

total coincidence, sure. i guess it is also a coincidence that hillary tweeted about it around the same time. other and jake sullivan one of her top advisers signed off on that tweet. now, that's significant. remember jake sullivan is the really sad looking guy the democrats sent out to do their dirty work like when you screw up in afghanistan, and then need somebody to go on live national tv? president biden isn't going to do that. that's what they pay jake sullivan to do. here now to react is former director of the national intelligence rick grenell and "fox & friends weekend" co-host my friend pete hegseth. so, pete, the same jake sullivan was the guy that was all involved with this? is that shocking to you? >> pete: no, because the ones that were there in 2016 are the ones that are in the white house right now. no surprise. and this is all indicative of exactly how washington d.c. works. you use a really fancy law firm like perkins couey to launder all your dirty work and send

someone to the fbi and in case he made the mistake of lying andmisrepresenting who he was that's how they do it. they do it in order to trigger an investigation do you know what happened hillary tweet just a few weeks after this the "new york times" has new reporting that the trump organization is under investigation for potential ties to a russian bank. that's all they want. the dust cloud. the smoke of investigations, reported in the "new york times." doesn't have to be true. doesn't have to be real. we all know none of it was true. none of it was real. but they used their connections in the fbi through the filters of the lawyers. this is exact same time the steele dossier was coming together. hillary clinton and the dnc and michael sussmann is the one that got caught. now, the question is a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound? no one else is going to report on this and does it lead to more from durham? haven't seen much yet. >> lawrence: rick, did get caught or warn all about him when you were in the dni? >> look, i don't even know where

to begin this is such a swamp situation. i hope that we have a lot of time to focus on these issues going forward. the media that pushed this, i don't believe that the fbi officials were duped by an outside lawyer working with hillary clinton who lied about his client. >> lawrence: good point. >> michael sussmann, whoever he is and whatever lie he told, we released his transcript when i was acting director of national intelligence along with 63 other transcripts from the house intelligence committee. we released these because john durham wanted them released unredacted. so that's exactly what i did. there is treasure trove of information of people lying under oath in these. but, let's just remember this. the audience needs to remember this. the inside the fbi, the russian collusion investigation continued, not because some

lawyer lied to them about who he was working for, because the fbi leadership knew this information was wrong, they knew it was made up, they continued the investigation because it would help hillary clinton. everybody in washington lobbyists newsrooms, a whole bunch of people wanted hillary to win. so what did they do? they allowed this opposition research to become part of doj and fbi. that is so scary to think that politics permeated into the doj and to the fbi. this is what we call political prosecution and when it happens in third world countries we call it out. it's happening right here in america. >> lawrence: rick, that's just the point and, pete, i want to go to you, so often you have the left that wants to go after the police but you have a legitimate case right here of the -- not the rank and file but the leadership of the fbi and by the way this is not the first time they have done, this okay?

gone after citizens, american citizens and they are absolutely silent on the matter. i don't get it. >> pete: yeah, ric is right about the swamp. ric is right that everyone in washington, d.c. knows each other. they know who they work for. they know if they are in the official capacity or unofficial capacity. they know if something is classified or not or who talks to reporters or who doesn't talk to reporters. they weave it through knowing. in this case knowing that the establishment of the fbi just like the establishment of the doj was in the tank for one candidate and one candidate only. then you wonder why people don't trust jake sullivan when he walks to the podium or don't trust anthony fauci when he tells you to do something because inside the halls of so many of the bureaucracy in washington, d.c. they are in the tank for one side. so trusting them is not an option. >> lawrence: you know, we heard a lot during the trump administration, and i don't care if people don't like the former president. he was still the president of the united states and the thought that you have executive

branch, the fbi and all these agents, doj doing this behind the scenes is quite scary, but, also the fact is, is that they -- it's very clear that the deep state really exists, ric. they did not respect the man. they did not like him. they worked against him and they ate it. the media, as well as the democrats to help impeach him. >> yeah. look, it's the leadership of the fbi. there are a lot of fbi agents who are trying to do the right thing who are just as frustrated as we are. but, you know, we make fun of the swamp and we think that it's a funny name. but the reality is that a swamp is where you go when you are stinky because no fresh water, no fresh ideas get into it. we have got to start sending people to washington, d.c. who socialize at home. whose lives are outside of washington in their district. stop voting for people who make washington, d.c. their social life, their church, their family, forget it. make them come home or don't vote for them. >> lawrence: i want to know what the republicans are going to do about this, gentlemen.

will there be more hearings or are they just going to continue to send letters back and forth to the doj? anyway, thank you so much for joining the program. up next, democrat lawmakers want everyone to shut up and get the shot whether you have natural immunity or not. but we're going to talk to a fire chief who is fighting back against the far left. governor vaccine mandates. don't you go anywhere. we have more "fox & friends." ♪ ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm not getting through the pandemic just to end up with the flu. i asked for fluzone high-dose quadrivalent.

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feel the cool rush of claritin cool mint chewables. powerful 24-hour, non-drowsy, allergy relief plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear. ♪ >> lawrence: so covid obsessed democrats can't get enough of following the science except when it comes to the power of natural immunity. yet, study after study shows us natural immunity has been a stronger deterrent from covid than the vaccine. and a "the washington post" op-ed john hopkins photographer dr. marty makary cites the following: a 700,000 person study from israel two weeks ago found those had had experienced prior infection were 27 times less likely to get a second tom is a covid infection than those vaccinated.

politicians like oregon governor kate brown don't want to hear anything about what the science actually says. she would rather just force people to get the jab instead. one oregon fire chief is suing brown for her executive order that will require healthcare workers to be vaccinated. fire chief williams says he has had covid and considers vaccine mandates to be unamerican. that fire chief joins me now alongside his attorney rebecca millniard. thank you so much for coming on the program today. can you tell me how you reached this breaking point because a lot of americans feel just like you. >> right. so, we have been dealing with this pandemic since it began, both on a personal level and on a professional level we have gone through the past 18 months working hard to keep people safe. we have had mandate after mandate, shut down after shut down and then a few weeks ago we

had our governor give as you mandate that we have to have vaccinations and mandatory vaccinations as well as having the option to test weekly. and then about a week later that test was taken away from us. so the mandate was to have only a vaccine. i have been in the emergency services for 28 years making decisions that impact people's lives every day. i can sure as hell make a decision what i put in my own body. >> lawrence: what did they tell you, sir, when you made this decision? >> well, i have made this decision. basically what has happened is the state of oregon has told me as an employer that i cannot employ a firefighter or a volunteer firefighter. they're telling me that come october 18th i have to get rid of those people and i'm not going to do it. and i am willing to lose my job over that. >> lawrence: that's where it starts when americans start

fighting back. rebecca, you have the legal case. what do you plan on saying in court? >> well, thank you, lawrence. i'm planning to say that with regards to these plaintiffs, mrn the lawsuit, this is a mandate, a law that doesn't make sense. and i think it's pretty low bar to say our laws, our regulations, our mandates have to at least make sense. >> lawrence: is it unconstitutional? >> i certainly think that it is unconstitutional. as you know, if there's a significant government interest or compelling government interest, you know, certain regulations are allowed. and we could all say probably covid is a compelling, you know, situation. there is an emergency. there is a pandemic or there has been, at least, in the past. but, that doesn't do away with that bottom line requirement that laws and regulations have to make sense. and if someone has natural

immunity that's better than an injection could give you, then it doesn't make sense to require them go and get a vaccine on top of that. that's what the lawsuit is about. >> lawrence: it doesn't make sense. you are exactly right. josh, the governor, i imagine, she hasn't had the courage to pick up the phone and call you. even though you have almost given the city almost 30 years of service. so, if you had the opportunity to look her in the eyes, what would you tell her. >> i would tell her let people make their own decision. this is not about science. this is about power. and the people have had enough. and i'm not going to put up with it anymore. >> lawrence: yeah. and you are speaking up for the people all across the country, sir. not just in your town. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> lawrence: i appreciate y'all joining the program. also tonight dr. marty makary doctor and fox news contributor. doctor, thank you as always for joining the program.

why are the scientists today and the thought leaders in the science, dr. fauci and all, not acknowledging natural immunity? i mean, it's very weird what's happening in the country because they don't deny it for any other virus. so why is this the one? >> it's so frustrating the to watch the politicization of the human immune system. basically they dug into a position they took early on without the humility to recognize that their hypothesis was wrong. and they have not evolved their position and as a result, we are hearing about these tragic stories and that was so hard to watch what you just played there. first responders and students and nurses and soldiers being kicked out of their livelihood because our public health officials are ignoring natural imimmunity. they took this position early the politics of it was such that an edict was handed down from on high from the white house that was very simple vaccinate

everybody but it was not scientifically precise. because of that people were natural immunity disenfranchised. tens of thousands of americans died when we were rationing the vaccine goig natural immunity and should have given to those who needed it kids are being forced to get two jabs. we know there are side effects of that second jab. if they already have immunity those are avoidable harms. >> lawrence: doctor, i'm curious, what are folks in your profession saying. the average day doctor because what's happening in the country is they are not looking too well right now. i wonder if they're speaking up and saying they condemn the big guns like dr. fauci and to acknowledge the science? >> it's mixed. so the public health leadership has a tremendous amount of influence and clout in the medical profession but a lot of people are seeing through this sort of group think right now. and they are making their own decisions for their patients and

they are recognizing natural immunity. 27 times more effective than natural immunity-than vaccinated immunity in that large study. so a lot of doctors are saying, look, if you have got natural immunity you are okay for now. we may recommend one dose just to add a little extra protection but you have got very good protection. remember, dr. walensky and dr. woodcock, the head of the cdc and fda they signed off on the plan to recommend boosters for everybody before the data were in. dr. fauci last week when asked about travel vaccine requirements said, and i quote: if the president wants it, then i will support it. how about give your own sound independent medical judgment that has been absent. lawrence the cdc is operating by politics. then you got moderna that came out today saying, you know, essentially boosters of course they are. they make more money with the boosters. i'm not condemning people going to get another shot. i probably will get a booster. it's just strange that the pharmaceutical company and the

white house, they are coordinating and it seems more about politics in some cases making money than serving the patient. because that's what matters, doctor. >> well, that's why the head of the fda vaccine center, a very highly respected scientist mary gruber quit. she quit in protest. it's clear. and it came out this week with a letter that she signed on to in the lancet saying, look, you have got to wait for the data to come in. you don't make decisions ahead of time. right now there is mixed data on people under 65. but over 65 there may be a benefit to reducing hospitalizations. but many are saying this booster conversation is distracting us from our main tank of asking nonimmune adults to get vaccinated and there is a global equity issue also. >> lawrence: it's a distraction. these guys don't know what they're doing. it's all centered around politics and, as a result, more people get hurt because they don't have the proper information and it's sad that we can't trust our doctors to give

us the right information. we can't trust our government either. and that's a sad day in america. doctor, thanks so much for separating fact from fiction. up next, the afghan refugee it [inaudible] out. look at that they're all going to swing states. that's weird how that happened. we will talk to karl rove about it after the break. tums vs. mozzarella stick when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast heartburn relief in every bite. crunchy outside, chewy inside. ♪ tums, tums, tums, tums ♪ tums chewy bites to make my vision a reality my varilux progressive lenses provide seamlessly transition from near to far. with every detail in sharp focus. that's seeing no limits. varilux lenses by essilor.

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switch to xfinity mobile and save hundreds on your wireless bill. plus, save up to $400 when you purchase a new samsung phone or upgrade your existing phone. learn more at your local xfinity store today. >> lawrence: y'all know democrats never let a good crisis go to waste each if they're caused by joe biden. the disaster in afghanistan has resulted in a flood of refugees coming to america. so, where are they going? according to angst gross, thousands are headed for the battle ground states. the democrats were desperate to win in 2020. how convenient? including arizona, georgia, michigan, north carolina, florida, and my home state of texas. now, would would biden want to send them there? and here's something funny, the guy in charge of this job, joe biden's buddy, the former governor of delaware. and wouldn't you know it out of the 37,000 refugees only 30 are headed to his state. and none of them are going to washington, d.c. here now to react is karl rove

former white house deputy chief of staff and fox news contributor. now, karl, i will admit this, i'm a libertarian. i'm always skeptical of government. but this seems a little fishy. am i wrong? >> well, i would be concerned a little bit because, for example, i have got my little handy map here from axios. you are right, 1,000 refugees are going to florida. but idaho, which is 1/14th the population of florida is getting 420. you are right. 1.3 -- 1300 going to michigan. but there is 775 going to nebraska which is a fraction of the size of michigan. so, i wouldn't see this as a plot. i am a little bit concerned about why it why isn't square doing its fair share? really these decisions are typically made by between it state department and department of homeland security based on a couple of factors one of which is the ability of resources at the state level to accept these refugees and proper treatment

and also looking atticly this is a case with the so-called siv holders the people who fought alongside with us, interpreters, you know, military aids and so forth, they have sponsors and the question is where is their sponsor the person willing to help make certain that they get settle in the united states and start to make their life here in our country? so, i wouldn't say this is all sort of, you know, some dnc representative sitting in some weird office in washington saying let's have these people put in certain states so that 15 years from now, 18 years from now if they become u.s. citizens they will vote democrat in a battleground state for us. i think it's not that -- not that under handed. >> lawrence: karl, i want to go deeper because i have been traveling across the country. i have been to these processing centers military bases and talked with the veterans there and wives are the ones that are hand links this transition making sure they get the toiletries and help with their transition. part of the reason why they wanted to do it is not just out of the goodness of their heart

and they were very nice people, but they were promised that these were people that helped america in afghanistan. we don't know for sure all those folks are right now. so, what do you know about that? when are we going to start this process where we know these are the people that are on the battlefield with our troops and their families? >> first of all there is some processing going on every one of these individuals, in fact, in the first wave, there was a report that 44 people out of the first wave of several thousand were immediately sent back out of the country because we had intelligence that these were not good actors and had no involvement with u.s. military forces. we have got a pretty good handle on who did help the united states. some of them went through the siv process but others have people who are willing to stand up and say this person was helpful to our unit in the following manner. so we have got to put an emphasis on that. we have got treat every one of these people though as someone worthy of further consideration and further, you know, observation. we can't just sort of say

welcome to the united states. have a good life. we have got monitor these people. but, you know, we have a moral obligation to people. i'm old enough to remember what happened after the end of the vietnam war and when we had a lot of vietnamese refugees particularly in our home state of texas. you may remember we had a real kerfluffle down on the coast when a lot of those vietnamese refugees went back to what they were doing back in vietnam which was fishy. but, nonetheless, they become an important part of our country and i think the same thing will happen with these afghans. they came here not because they wanted to, you know, they wanted to get away from the taliban. they wanted to stand with the values that they have fought for and stood for many of them for the last 20 years. >> lawrence: i definitely think america has to keep its commitment but i also think and you know i travel around the country covering crisis that happen in chicago, filly, and baltimore. and a lot of those folks feel like america doesn't care about them. doesn't care about their circumstance. there is literally blood bath happening every single weekend

and they don't feel like america is doing a good job there. we have got to be careful about that too, karl. >> yeah, absolutely. got to make certain that these people are observed and make certain that we don't have problems hidden among them. >> lawrence: thanks, karl. it's a murder mystery that keeps getting weirder and weirder. you won't believe the latest twist in murder for hire plot gone wrong. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪

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♪ ♪ >> lawrence: today, alex murdaugh turned himself in and was arrested and charged with insurance fraud, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud, and filing a false police report the chief breaking news correspondent trace gallagher has the latest. a crazy story, trace. >> lawrence, the reason it has captured so much attention is because one, it is baffling, and two, it involves a south carolina family that has owned a prominent law firm that has been a center of power and influence for 100 years. family patriarch alex murdaugh has just admitted he tried to arrange his own killing so his

son could collect a $10 million life insurance policy. on september 4th, alex murdaugh was changing a tire on the side of the road when he was shot in the head. he survived. turns out, murdaugh had already decided to kill himself, but because life insurance doesn't pay out for suicide, he hired a hit man named curtis smith, a former client, as a suicide hit man. but the mystery gets deeper. back in june, "tucker carlson today"'s wife margaret and 22-year-old son paul were shot and killed at a family's huntin. alex murdaugh found the body, and although nobody has yet been arrested for those murders, alex murdaugh is now clearly being investigated, and there is more. when 22-year-old paul murdaugh was shot and killed on that hunting ranch, he was on trial for driving and crashing a boat while drunk, a 19-year-old woman died in that crash. and in 2015, another murdaugh son was investigated and cleared in the death of a 19-year-old

mao was found with his skull crushed. a tangled web, indeed, but legal analysts now say if alex murdaugh has now admitted that he hired someone to kill him, other admissions might soon be coming, lawrence. >> lawrence: what a mess. thanks, trace. joining me now, criminal defense attorney mark eichler's. mark, this is a tangled web. i need you to put your criminal defense attorney hat on. why is he cooperating right now? did someone confess? what is the motive right now? >> because they got him. there is no "who done it," they got him. night to defend people, it's either "my client did not do it, he or she was framed like the mona lisa" or "okay, he did it, she did it, let's sit down at the table and cooperate, add to that, my client has a 20 year history with opioid abuse and was not in his right flame of mind, please let's mitigate this sentence and give him less than

what you would normally give him." >> lawrence: his family founded this firm that he was tangled with, and apparently he was stealing money, as well? >> yeah, that goes along with abuse. when you are addicted to drugs -- i'm not certainly justifying it, it is not uncommon, i see it with a lot of my clients. 20 years of a bill of using pills put him in a financial hole, and he was so desperate he stole from a client, allegedly. >> lawrence: his wife and son, is he a suspect in this case or just a person of interest right now? >> i love when people use those terms. "person of interest," "suspect," it is all the same, like calling a beggar a roadside entrepreneur. the same thing, just a prettier way of looking at it. of course he is a suspect vehicle they are looking at it carefully. everyone around this guy seems to die except him, when coincidentally, he wants to die. that is the big question, lawrence. how does a guy you hired to kill

you misses? how does he fail at that? that is the lead, to me. >> lawrence: though, the big question is, people have been dying around him for a while now. why did it take this long for them to count him as a suspect? i mean, is he that well-connected? >> well, first and foremost, we have this little-known document called the constitution which requires a certain level of evidence before they stripped someone of their liberty, and i think part of it is a lack of evidence. the first thing now is we have them sitting at the table and admitting everything that he did as it relates to his own, you know, fraud, to kill himself to get insurance money. and in that arena, i bet they are asking him more questions, leading to potentially making him a suspect in the other cases. >> lawrence: you know, i'm interested how this plays out. i hear there are other families that want justice for their family, as well, based on -- and they don't know what happened. we are going to be following the case. mark, thank you so much as

always for your insight. great legal analysis. thank you for so much for watching "fox news prime time." i'm not done, there's still one more night and this week, i hope you come back. tucker carlson is sitting in the chair and he is up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening, and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." parts of the country feel a little out of control. have you had that feeling? here is one measure of it. eight months into the joe biden administration, consider del rio, texas, a small town on the mexican border come about four hours south of midland odessa. over the last few days, thousands of illegal haitian immigrants have descended on del rio, texas. these are