tv Tucker Carlson Tonight FOX News February 14, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
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.50. or 5:05 killing my wallet. all right, tucker is up next. and remember, i'm watters and this is my world ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." happy monday. if you watch donald trump closely four years in office and we did. it became pretty clear the more outland dish the claim that trump happened to be making the more likely it was to be true. trump did tend to exaggerate at times mostly about topics that didn't matter. how big is the crowd at 2016 inauguration? who cares? but on the big things, on matters of civilization
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importance trump told the truth bluntly often when nobody else would. the iraq war was a mistake trump said. illegal immigration is a disaster. china is taking over the world. haiti is a pretty deafening his tieria followed every one of these true statements. at one point in early 2018, cnn and "the washington post" got so worked up trying to hide the obvious, that they devoted blanket coverage to the claim that actually it is an awesome and fully functional country. perfect spot for your next family vacation. if you disagree with that, you're racist. that's what they told us. three years later they have dropped the pose on haiti. leaders now consider haiti so awful, that just being from there qualifies you for asylum in the united states. with trump gone, they can finally admit that. what was once a dangerous conspiracy theory is a dangerous situation. for four years no dangerous
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conspiracy theory was considered more dangerous than the claim that hillary clinton's presidential campaign spied on donald trump. the very idea that hillary clinton, of all people, had spied on anyone was preposterous. trump was emboldening our enemies. so was this a stupid opinion that trump had? it was really a form of treason. as usual, trump kept saying it. watch him do it again in one of his last sit down interviews as president with leslie stahl of 60 minutes. >> the biggest scandal was when they spied on my campaign. they spied on my campaign. >> there's no real evidence of that. >> of course there is. it's all over the place. >> no. >> leslie, they spied on my campaign and got caught. >> sir, can i say something. this is "60 minutes." we can't put on things we can't verify. >> you won't put it on because it's bad for biden. >> we can't put on things we
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can't verify. >> they spied on my campaign. it's been totally verified. just go down and get the papers. they spied on my campaign. they got caught. >> no. >> then they went much further than that and they got caught. you will see that, leslie. you know that, but you just don't want to put it on the air. >> no, as a matter of fact, i don't know that. >> tucker: as a matter of fact, we can't verify that. this is cbs news. we don't air things we can't verify. really, leslie stahl? is that true? we still remember a cbs news piece that claimed donald trump was secretly working with vladamir putin. how did cbs news verify those facts? as it turns out that particular story, the reporting, came from reading a piece while probably standing in line at starbucks. statele claimed that the trump bank was -- how did slate.com know this? by consulting a quote, small tightly knit community of
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computer scientists. these scientists were totally nonpartisan. one of the sources explain we wanted to defend both campaigns because we wanted to preserve the integrity of the election. so here you have just another unnamed computer scientist defending election integrity. make sense. don't ask questions. jake sullivan did not ask questions. he takes slate.com very seriously. at the time jake sullivan was working for the hillary clinton campaign. he cited the slate story as evidence that trump was colluding with putin. quote, the secret hot line may be the key to unlocking the mystery of trump's ties to russia. we can only assume federal authorities will now explore this direct connection between trump and russia. so there was a bat phone in trump tower that rank directly in the kremlin. jake sullivan stuck to that line for once. here he is on cnn in march of 2017. >> what we learned during the
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campaign was that very serious computer science experts, people who work closely with the united states government, had uncovered this secret hot line between the alpha bank, the russian bank, and the trump organization. now, of course, we don't know for sure if, in fact, that were the case, but we knew that it should be investigated. we knew that given how serious these computer scientists were, they weren't just making up crack pot theories. it wasn't surprising to learn even as of last week the fbi is still looking into this. >> do you have any idea what they're looking for? >> i don't. i don't have a line to the fbi on this, but what i know based on public reporting is that there is very unusual server activity between this russian bank and the trump organization which suggests contact that took place over the course of the campaign. >> tucker: oh, the secret hot line. these people are literally willing to say anything if it gives them power. but listen carefully what jake
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sullivan said. i don't have a line into the fbi on this. everything i know is from public reporting. you know he went out of his way to say that which should have been a very clear sign to say it was a line. it was a lie. the fact the hillary clinton for president campaign was coordinating with them. they had been spreading false claims about trump and russia. from that crack pot of computer scientists to the general council at the fbi, james baker. but he didn't stop there. in february of 2017 after the election, sussman also met with general counsel at the cia. you may be wondering about the identity of those nonpartisan computer scientists who dug up all this information about donald trump's direct connection to vladamir putin. you may not be shocked to learn they weren't nonpartisan. once again jake sullivan was lying to us. in fact, a pro hillary clinton activist from south africa, rodney skwrof tpeu put together
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oppo guys. most came from georgia tech. in e-mails he explained why he was doing it. he wanted hillary to win the presidency was hillary clinton promised him a job as a top cyber security officer in the united states government. joffey wanted to help hillary win. in order to do that he gave his nonpartisan computer scientists a mission. their job was to gather data they had access to thanks to a government contract to connect trump to putten. we knew that because of john durham who spent the origin of the russia hogues and is finally producing some material. in the words of the filing, quote, joffey tasked those researchers to mine internet day to to establish a narrative tying then candidate trump to russia. this wasn't reporting, of course. they had a goal. they were trying to get hillary clinton elected president. the amazing thing is how they
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did it where their data came from. the filing said joffey and his scientists intercepted internet traffic, e-mails, presumably text messages from, quote, trump tower, his central west apartment building and the executive office of the president of the united states. in other words, trump was right. this isn't a conspiracy theory. his claims were true. democrats were spying on donald trump, not just as candidate, but as president of the united states in the white house as well as in his own home. so has anything like this happened in american history? not that we know of. but jeff bezos doesn't think you should know about it. he said while trump is once again claiming that he was spied upon, that claim has been, quote, debunked. oh really? how has it been debunked? shut up! it just has. but, in fact, that claim has not been debunked. it has been verified.
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that claim is true. it actually happened. and the way it happened tells you everything about why it has been extraordinarily difficult to bring democracy back to the united states. a government contractor spied on a populous presidential candidate, then passed the information to his opponent's campaign, which gave it to the fbi and the news media which distorted its illusion of treaty which was cited by the politician who paid for the whole thing as a reason not to vote for the guy she spied on. got it? a closed loop. everyone's got a role. here's hillary clinton during the presidential debate. >> from everything i see, has no respect for this person. >> well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president. >> no puppet. no puppet. you're the puppet. >> it's pretty clear, you won't admit that the russians have engaged in cyber attacks against the united states of america that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are
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willing to spout the putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up nato, do whatever he wants to do, and that you continue to get help from him because he has a very clear favorite in this race. >> tucker: so if you're not all in with nato, if you think it's dangerous to the united states you, my friend, work for vladamir putin. you encouraged espionage, shrieked hillary, just as he was doing that. she was speaking about a specific quote cyber attack. she was talking about the russians hacking the servers at the dnc. democrats wasted three years of our lives telling us that in ever increasing volume. here's the interesting thing. it was not true. it has never been true. vladamir putin did not hack the
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dnc. there was never any evidence that the russians hacked the dnc. they were very clearly stolen from within the building, most likely by a bernie sanders supporter. that was very obvious to anyone who was paying attention at the time. what's interesting is that no one's been punished for it. likely no one ever will be. jake sullivan, the guy you just saw lying about those nonpartisan computer scientists, has not been insraoeugted for what he did. jake sullivan has been promoted. jake sullivan is now president biden national security adviser. he's still screaming about russia. only this time it's not to bring down a presidential opponent, he's screaming russia to bring the world into a war with a nuclear power. this story is not going away. the author of a terrific book the plot against the president. he joins us tonight. lee smith, thank you very much for coming on. we're hesitant to pick up the
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story partly but a it seemed so complicated but when you dig in, it's not so complicated. they were spying on trump as a candidate and as president of the kwraoupbd from the white house. why is this not the biggest story of the year? >> right. it's an enormous national security scandal. i hear people comparing it to watergate and it does not compare to watergate at all. what we're talking about when we talk about the executive office of the president, this is some of the most secure communications that we have in the united states. the fact that these were, that these were being tapped, the idea that these were under surveillance. we know the dns system, and it may be more data as well. we don't know that. the idea that the oval office, other important offices in the white house were under surveillance by political operatives is extraordinary. it's shocking. i'm talking to people who were investigating this on the hill for several years and they're shocked.
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>> tucker: because i think you described it precisely right. it's a national security story. the irony here is hillary clinton shrieks about hacking servers and russia spying on the dnc when people acting in her behalf are spying on the president of the united states in the white house. so if she can do it, why can't everyone do it? honestly? >> well, yeah. this is an enormous issue. all we know so far is that they had access to this data. did bad foreign actors have access to this data as well? did they know what was going on? again, this is a target of every intelligence service around the world and has been since there's been a white house. so, again, it's extraordinary. the idea that hillary clinton, that we've been living in the psyche of this deranged and depraved woman for five years. now we understand, we see more the scope and depravity of this operation.
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it's terrible for the country. >> tucker: it really is. if trump's name wasn't in this story, i think people would feel free to admit it. they're doing -- they were doing this to the current president, i would still think it was a terriblething. it is. lee smith, thank you. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: canada became a dictatorship today. it actually did. no longer democracy. justin trudeau declared he is fully in charge. he's also said they control crypto funding and your bank account. a dictatorship. that's what that's called. still straight ahead. alright, so...cordless headphones, you can watch movies through your phone? and y'all got electric cars?
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>> tucker: when thousands of blue collar workers showed up in ottawa several weeks ago to protest the tyranny being imposed against them, the prime minister of canada refused to meet with them or speak to them. instead, he fled the city and then from his bunker, he called the truckers nazis. when they still didn't leave the city, justin trudeau suspended
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democracy and declared canada a dictatorship. >> the federal government has invoked the emergencies act to supplement pro-vin shall and territoryial capacity to address the blockades and occupations. emergencies act will be used to strengthen and support law enforcement agencies at all levels across the country. this is about keeping canadians safe, protecting people's jobs and restoring confidence in our institutions. >> tucker: so let's be clear. this is a defining moment in the history of canada, in the history of the english speaking west. the emergencies act is martial law. it has never been invoked in the history of that country. now, by law, the emergencies act is allowed only in emergencies, in quote, urgent and critical situations that endanger the lives health or safety of
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canadians. what's happening now does not qualify. what's happening in canada now is not an emergency. here's what it looked like this weekend. according to justin trudeau, everyone you saw in that tape is a terrorist even the kids in their bouncey caps. justin trudeau revoked their civil liberties and authorized men with weapons to haul them to jail. trudeau allowed for the arrest of this man. >> you can receive a free meal irregardless of what state you're from, what creed,
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religion. doesn't matter. it's about the community kitchen. we all eat as one and humanity's equal. so the concept helping the community is what we're practicing here today. we're here alongside the truckers in the fight for freedom and we're doing our part. >> tucker: so again, all of these people can now be arrested on sight simply because of where they're standing. being arrested is the least of their problem. an arrest suggests bail, you can get out of jail. you can't get out of the country, justin trudeau has just made. under martial law, trudeau has the power to force banks to seize their bank accounts, and insurance companies to cancel their insurance. that means they can't actually live in canada. they are nonperson. they are enemies of the state and they will be crushed. at least one trucker knows exactly what's coming. he has seen it before. he came to canada from romania.
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>> why 100 people, 180, 200 people to defend your lives? >> up to us, too, all the people voting. >> when some people they decide your life. 300 people decide your life. >> yes. >> tucker: so is it an overstatement to comparing what happened in canada to what happened in a stalin dictatorship. in canada they talk about diversity. but the repression is similar. today canada's deputy prime minister, a former american journalist, announced that going forward, justin trudeau will regulate all crowd funding and crypto currency under the terrorist financing act. really? justin trudeau is now in charge of all of your finances?
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he's in charge of crypto currency? how does that work? his government unilaterally just sent $1 billion to ukraine where the head of the rival political party is now under arrest and where opposition media has been banned. that's the country they're now in solidarity with. jonathan trilly is a constitutional law scholar. thank you very much for coming on. can you in a democracy just declare yourself king and say, i'm eliminating your bank account, i'm regulating what you say, i'm regulating crypto currency? where do these powers come from? >> this could not be more serious. canada does not have the history of robust free speech protections we have in the united states. it's closer to england in that sense. this should be chilling for every canadian. what happened to these truckers
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is really quite breathtaking. this was an act of civil disobedience. we've had those types of acts and protests for generations. we celebrated those acts with the civil rights movement. that's what was reference, causing good trouble, right? it is to act peacefully but disruptive. and that has been done to the generations. what happened here is that you have a prime minister declared these people insurrectionalists. terrorists. said they were threatening democracy itself. you have social media and the mainstream media echoing that, those attacks. then, worse yet, as you noted, we have these crowd funding sites that literally froze millions of dollars that average citizens wanted to give to support these truckers. when you put all that together, you've extinguished the ability of thousands, perhaps even millions of people, to express
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themselves through a form of civil disobedience. and according to prime minister trudeau's definition, he could have shut down civil rights movement. he could have arrested martin luther king. he could have arrested any number of figures that we now celebrate today as visionaries. now, that doesn't mean that the truckers were right. it doesn't mean they can block bridges. they can't. but what the government has done here is really at odds with very basic human rights and civil liberties. >> tucker: if they're regulating crypto currency, which i'm praying is not actually possible. they're saying that they want to out loud. that's a preexisting priority for them to establish social and political control. that's not related to the truckers, right? >> right. you sort of stand back and go, what? you have people who are engaging in what he calls occupation. that's a form of civil disobedience, and yet you go to
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def con4 suddenly and say i'm going to take control over banks and crowd funding and crypto currency. all of this is because truckers descended on their capital to object to these mandates. now, i happen to support vaccinations. i don't necessarily agree with the truckers. but what i have in common with the truckers is free speech and association. when someone tries to deny that to them, they deny it to us. >> tucker: exactly. the last liberal in washington. i mean that as a compliment. thank you for coming on tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: so you may be wondering as you look around, why are all the people in the media in washington, in the biden administration, people like liz cheney and the republican party, why are all of them on the side of ukraine? why are they all suddenly concerned about democracy. turns out ukraine is not a
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democracy. the head of the opposition in ukraine has been arrested. opposition media has been shut down. if that's a democracy, the one the biden administration wants to bring to this country, you should be worried. we have details up ahead. (vo) what makes my heart beat? having everything i want in the place i love. jamaica. heartbeat of the world. let's go!
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>> tucker: so for months now, really for years democrats and some people in the republican party have been telling us it's our moral obligation, duty as americans to back up ukraine in its battle against russia. why ukraine? because the president's son was paid $1 million a year by ukraine and they have a massive lobbying effort in washington. that's not the reason. the reason is ukraine is a democracy, russia is a dictatorship. it's autocratic. therefore, all good people support the democracy, right? right. everyone's been telling us. adam kinsinger crying, it's a democracy. what exactly is ukraine like? what's its government like?
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turns out it's run by a dictator who's friends with everyone in washington. doesn't make him less of a dictator. how do you know? because the main opposition figure is now under arrest and the opposition media, the tv stations have been shut down by the government. that's not how a democracy operates. that's how a dictatorship operates. it should make you very nervous, joe biden, susan rice, the national security adviser, they're all telling us with a straight face, it's a democracy. so none of this escaped the attention of the president of the center for the study of partisanship. he wrote a really interesting piece today on this, on twitter. we're happy to have him join us. thanks for coming on. so it's a democracy. i'm not going to ask you to weigh in. no country that jails its opposition leader is a democracy, in my opinion. the biden administration seems like it's kind of running ukraine. >> yeah. i mean, if you look, any time
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2019. former president has been accused of treason and put under house arrest. they also have parliamentary elections. zalensky's party was the biggest winner there. then they went after the second biggest party. they shut down their tv station, seized assets of the biggest financial backer of the party. ukraine also, i mean, in recent years shut down the biggest social media site in the country. basically think the russian equivalent of facebook. that's just taken completely off the internet. they've passed language laws that say you can't be educated in russian and also that basically national media cannot be printed in russian any more. basically everyone recognizes this is going to end russian language media on a national scale. so you can imagine if, after 2020, biden comes into office. he puts trump under arrest. goes after the main donors of the republican party. he shuts down fox news and conservative media. shuts down face book and twitter
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because that's where conservatives congregate. shuts down say spanish language media in florida because the people who use that language are against biden. would anyone on earth think this was government behaving democratically? absolutely not. and so it's not a question of whether russia or ukraine is perfect. it's a question of whether ukraine matters to the united states. whether ukraine is such a morally upstanding country that it's worth the u.s. poisoning its relations with another super power, the only country in the world that is a pure competitor as far as number of nuclear weapons. bringing in a tornado and going to war for ukraine. what is it about ukraine? ukraine has to be basically saintly for the united states, for it to be worth americans. you could even say even if it was, who cares what happens in eastern europe? that's none of our business. if you're going to rely on this idea that it's a democracy, you have to look at ukraine as it
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actually is. this is reported in american media although it gets underplayed. >> tucker: i think it's the kind of democracy they'd like to see here. maybe that's the point. for more on what ukraine is like and for more on why our current establishment loves ukraine, you should check out richard hanania. you explain it in really compelling detail. appreciate you coming on. thank you. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: on sunday a 35-year-old asian woman was stabbed to death on a subway in manhattan by a homeless man who followed her to her apartment. you're looking at video obtained by "the new york post." the latest random attack in new york city. democratic politicians are refusing to recognize there is a problem with mental illness and crime in their cities. a problem they have exacerbated dramatically. sandy cortez is telling us the problem is the result of people having to steal baby formula ever since the child tax credit
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expired for real. watch. >> because we run away from substantive discussions about this, we don't want to say some of the things that are obvious like, gee, the child tax credit just ran out on december 31st and now people are stealing baby formula. but we don't want to have that discussion. we want to say these people are criminals. we want to talk about people that are violent. >> tucker: so the tik tok girl is accusing us of not being substantive. we give up. we're going to turn over this segment to somebody who is substantive. she joins us to assess the substance. great to see you. people are stealing baby formula because the child tax credit wasn't renewed? >> i have to say this. there's part of me that wanted to hold out a candle for aoc when she first came on the scene. i always say there are only two types of socialists. those who are stupid and
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ignorant but people who are evil and look forward to government to operate like tpaoeu dell castro did. when she came on i thought maybe she really is ignorant and has this idea that life can be a dream, everything can be free and we can make everything equal and not look at individuals as individuals and just say we're all going to have the same. as time has developed and you look at this circumstance. defund the police. release the criminals because we need to make sure we don't have too many black people in prison even if these black people are committing violent crimes. release them back on to the street because we need to make sure there's equality inside the prisons. now she's seeing what the consequence is of those policies that she pushed. she knows that people are being murdered in the streets. good people are being followed like this young asian woman into their apartment building and being slaughtered. if she was a good person and was simply ignorant, she would immediately do a 180 and say, do
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you know what? we tried something and it didn't work, but i care about you people. this is the person that championed, the socialist, black and brown people, right? black and brown people need to get ahead. they're hurting. well, black and brown people are the number one people being slaughtered by her policies and she doesn't care. my assessment of aoc is she's an evil prop beganist. she's part of the democratic machine that will do anything and say anything to ensure that they are in power and the people that they govern beneath them remain oppressed. it's a sad, sad realization for aoc. >> tucker: i completely agree with you. when she first came in and she appeared to take on amazon i thought, i don't agree with her, but if she's willing to go after the people with real power, you know, then i can respect that even if i disagree. she has been a hand maidmaid, a faithful servant to power. if she has any bravery or concern for people, black and brown people, she'd be really upset. but she's not.
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>> no, she's not at all. it's power. maybe she has better intentions when she first got into office and then people started putting money into her pocket and telling her to say these things. but there's no question now, this is a young woman who is completely corrupt. she does not care about black and brown people. 14e she sees them suffering every day. rather than apologizing, she's looking us further in the face and lying and saying, do you know what? this is all happening because of bad governance. what you need is more government. she should be absolutely ashamed of herself and hopefully the black and brown people are waking up to the truth. socialism kills. it's killing us right now. >> tucker: candace owens, thank you very much. great to see you. >> thank you. >> tucker: forbes just fired one of its writers. that's not shocking. forbes is failing as an enterprised. they fired this person because he dared to write articles critical of anthony fauci. that doesn't sound like journalism at all. we've got details next.
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>> tucker: after two years of watching medical establishment ignore science and lie, lot of americans don't trust doctors any more. that's a very sad thing. but there's a reason for it. past few years big pharmaceutical companies have discredited health care. john abramson is a doctor, family physician. he's watched this happen over a long time. he's watched how doctors, good doctors, people of good intent, are manipulated by pharma without even knowing it. so he wrote about it. sickening how big pharma broke american health care and how we can repair it. we had an amazing conversation with him. here's part of it. >> now we are in a situation where it's not the authority of the church, it's the authority of capital. it's the authority of -- it's the needs to maximize the return on investment for the investors and the share holders that directs our science, that
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directs the process that generates the information that drives our health care system that's spending $1.5 trillion extra a year and leading to 1,300 american deaths every day. >> tucker: you would hope, ideally, that medicine and science could harness the power of capital without being hostage to its imperatives. >> that's exactly right. and that's, i hope, where we get to in our discussion. >> tucker: so let me ask you about your experience on a couple of these. first you write this book and one thing i have noticed in the past couple of years is that -- this is very distressing as an american. the scientific community, the doctors community is not -- tends to be hostile to people who disagree or are saying something different. kind of the opposite of what you'd want. >> yes. >> tucker: did people look at you and say, shut up, doctor? stop talking? what kind of reception did you get? >> i got an increasingly icy
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reception in the doctors' lounge as time went on. sure. it's hard because the docs think they're doing the right thing. >> tucker: right. >> i am not accusing them of being purposely harming their patients. >> tucker: no, i'd never say that. >> they're trying to do the right thing. >> tucker: right. >> they don't understand this idea that peer review doesn't have access to the data. it's just so disparate from what has been hammered into them, from the day they took the admission test for medical school. it doesn't fit. >> tucker: wait. did you hear that? the scientists who, quote, peer review studies and, therefore, set the parameters of american medicine, don't have access to the full data set. in other words, they can't actually assess whether the drug works or not because they don't have the numbers. they peer review it anyway. shocking. that's one of the many things we learned from that conversation
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with john abramson on fox nation. we recommend it strongly. well, here's one example of what dr. abramson was just talking about. this show has learned forbes fired a long-time writer for writing articles investigates tony fauci. that contributor was pushed out after a series of pieces exposed fauci's high income and the fact that he has the largest retirement in the history of the federal government, a $350,000 a year pension. forbes editors admonished him for his tone on fauci before canceling his connection to them. adam joins us now. adam, thanks so much for coming on. i'm not in any way doubting your story. i used to work in magazines. i have never heard anything like that. did i misstate what happened? >> no. clearly forbes editors did not want our oversight of dr. fauci's finances.
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after eight years 206 columns i estimate i wrote 250,000 words on the forbes platform, my column was cancelled. here's how it worked. the national institutes of health six top executives wrote an e-mail to myself and randle lane, the top content officer at forbes. it was couched as a corrections e-mail. there was no substantial corrections and they quibbled about small things in my column. that's the excuse forbes used to cancel it. >> it was that randall lane character who was posing as an editor? he's the one who made this decision. >> here's how it went. after that e-mail, within 24 hours i received a phone call from my editor at forbes that i was barred from publishing on anthony fauci any longer. keep in mind our oversight was the spear with anthony fauci. we were the ones who wrote he
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was compensated as the most highly compensated government employee. in 2020, his house hold earnings, anthony fauci and his wife made $1.7 million. many people don't know that anthony fauci's wife, christine grady, is the chief bioethicist at the national institutes of health. she makes more than the vice president. north of $235,000. anthony fauci makes more than the president at $456,000. so if you take their salaries, tax on the cost of federal governments at 30%. the two faucis, their house hold income, paid for by taxpayers every year is $900,000. >> tucker: you described the whole point of journalism, to tell people which their government, which they pay for, is actually doing and randall lane, the kid in the hat, and
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>> tucker: february 14, 2022, the day canada abandoned democracy and became a dictatorship. regulating everyone's cryptocurrency. will our leaders notice? will anyone say anything? we will be watching. hope you have the best night. we'll be back tomorrow and every weeknight. in the meantime, sean hannity takes over. >> sean: thank you. welcome to a busy news night tonight. there is breaking news all over the world. in a moment we will check in on canada where the country's wannabe socialist dictator justin trudeau, the emergency powers act, illegal, all in an effort to stomp out peaceful protests taking place in ottawa. is the wimpy, cowardly, gutless justin, what are you planning, sending in the police or the military to hurt the heroes of the pandemic? is that your plan? apparently he now wants to
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