♪ ♪ howard: there is plenty of otherred fodder for the media these days as the brutal and vicious war in ukraine grinds on. there's that guy who did the slapping at the oscars, what was the name will smith, that is fueling endless debate with. madison cawthorn said law makers had invited him to orgies and did cocaine in front of him, then admitted that was not true. facebook quietly running a negative media campaign against tiktok. there is hunter biden whose firm

got millions from a chinese energy company with the washington post joining "the new york times" in reporting more aggressively, more than a year late, on the president's son. there is donald trump calling on president putin to release dirt on the biden family. it's inevitable that after six weekings public interest might fade somewhat, but the media, to their collective credit, are covering it courageously led by correspondents on the front line. russia's horrifying assault on ukrainian citizens is the global challenge of our time in defending democracy. we cannot let up on chronicling vladimir putin's war crimes and is lies. i'm howard kurtz, and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: joining us now from lviv, ukraine, is fox news correspondent alex hogan.

alex. >> reporter: hi, howie. there is devastating foot an of the northern participants of ukraine,s some of the areas that have been recovered,bodies lying in the streets, men and women, civilians with their hands bound behind their back. again, these are innocent bystanders. there are reports of rapes and -- being shot. the mayor says 300 civilians were killed, another town, i pine if -- irpin, has been the site of heavy fighting, and only half of the buildings there still stand. take a listen. >> translator: the russian occupiers are thrown out of here, and they are running towards belarus. of course they leave many corpses, many destroys houses, many booby trapped places after themselves. >> reporter: horrifying images of ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy warning residents not to come back given the real threat here and around the country.

new exmotions in the southern city of -- explosions in the southern city of odesa, a key city in the strategy of this war, ukraine's largest port and where the navy is is headquartered. howie? howard: alex hogan, thank you very much for that report and stay safe. as the war drags on, the media is still reverberating over the deck a la ration that vladimir muten -- putin should not remain in power. resurrected again when biden spoke with reporters. >> do you now regret saying that? because your government has been trying to walk that back. do your words complicate matters? >> i'm not walking anything back. the fact of the matter is i was expressing the moral outrage i feel. the actions of this man, just brutality. >> just in the last couple of days it sounded like you told u.s. troops they were going into ukraine, it sounded like you said it was possible the u.s. would use a chemical weapon, and

and it sounded like you were calling for regime change in russia -- >> none of the three occurred. >> none of the three -- >> none of the three. howard: the pundits clashed about what the president meant and whether he should have said it. >> brand new spin from the white house as they try to walk back their walkback after president biden walked back his walkback -- [laughter] over what he said about removing putin. >> quite honestly, i think this is a media with-manufactured -- media-manufactured story. to blow this out of proportion to say that, you know, the president was doing some sort of thing about making regime chang- >> he's always been gaffe-prone as everybody who's ever covered him or even watched him for a little bit knows, but in situation situations like this, he needs to avoid that. he needs to stick to scripts prepared for him. >> the president making it clear this was an expression of his own personal moral outrage. howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage are two fox

news contributors. in utah, jason chaffetz, former republican congressman there that staid, and harold ford, former democratic congressman from tennessee. jason, there's a lot of media coverage of that immediate white house walkback when president biden made the bold declaration that putin shouldn't be allowed to remain in power, but do you find the coverage more muted and mixed when biden with appropriators kind of did walk back the -- reporters kind of did walk back the walkback? >> yeah, look, the president does not give personal comments. that is ridiculous. he's the president of the united states. we're the world's superpower. when the president speaks, his words matter, and it's off the cuff that he is just horrendous. and the media needs to continue to press and ask him questions, not try to make excuses for this white house. and i think they need to get to the bottom of how is it that the white house actually walked these comments back in record time, and it makes you wonder if the president was even briefed

or asked did you want to walk that back, because the walkback happened within minutes after he makes these gaffes. howard: right. it was an ad lib. harold, it's not a media-manufactured story. shouldn't even biden allies in the media admit this was an unforced error and that that this double walkback with biden saying, well, not calling for regime change, i'm personally outraged he's still in power, is rather confusingsome. >> well, first off, good sunday morning. good to be with you and jason. i i think two things. the president was expressioning his -- expressing his moral outrage. he probably should not have said it, and i don't think any red-blooded, tax-paying american disagrees with what the president said. but as jason pointed out, he is the president, so his words matter. i was happy to hear the white house clarify and walk some of it back. i also was great -- gratified to hear president biden make clear

that if the russian people want back in the world community, it's likely their going to have to retire vladimir putin who doesn't seem unwilling or undeterred even by a militaryitf his that, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to be aligned with his mission in ukraine. a ukrainian people who have resisted with the kind of resolve of not seen in decades on that continent. howard: wright. we have a rare -- right. we have a rare moment of agreement between two foreman lawmakers. jason, promising safe passage for refugees and reneging on that, saying he's going to stop attacking cities and then continuing to bomb the outskirts of kyiv before finally treating and now -- retreating and now we're learning about all the horrible casualties there. how do the media cover the daily barrage of falsehoods if from putin and and his henchmen? enter well, they need to continue to pursue that. i would also wish the media would go back and look at what

happened to georgia. the russians signed a document saying they would withdraw, but they never did withdraw. there's context that i think the media race -- media's really missing out on. there is recent history with putin and with his lies, and if they would show that in context of what's going on in ukraine and the human atrocity -- which i think they're trying to cover as earnestly as they can. but compared to the other lies, i think they would have a more complete story. howard: yeah. there's a growing list every single day. harold, i spoke at the top of the program about the media starting to cover over issues and controversies besides the war. do you think for all the unthinkable brutality, and sometimes this stuff is hard to watch, that public interest is starting to wane a bit because of war fatigue? >> i don't. i thought you framed it very well also when you said this is a global challenge of our day and our era. the fact that democracy is being challenged. i think the american people

understand in a painful and clear way what's at take here, and i think that the continual coverage on all networks is something a that i think every american welcomes because we understand that if he wins here, putin, all bets are off, and he will try other places as well. we understand the gravity of the moment, and i'm glad the american people are consuming and wanting to consume this information. howard: that's why the retreat from kyiv, the fact that the russians could not take the capital despite the very heavy cost is so encouraging. bret baier spoke to volodymyr zelenskyy on friday. here's a bit of that conversation. >> translator: just give us missiles. give us airplanes. you cannot give us f-18 or f-19 or whatever you have, give us the old soviet planes. that's all. give them into my hands. give me something to defend my country with. howard: so, jason, zelenskyy says the u.s. and nato aren't doing enough, and a lot of the appropriators' questions these days -- appropriators' questions

these -- reporters questions are about the bure kuraltic delays. -- bureaucratic delays. does the press have a point? >> i think it does, and president zelenskyy is a big reason why the world is paying attention. the fact that he's still in power, he wasn't deposed and and pushed out within days as everybody had predicted and that he's an exceptional spokesperson. i compare can and contrast his ability to communicate on the world stage with joe biden and kamala harris, and it's just night and day. he makes the case and he does it country by country, and it begs the question why is it we can't give them the materials that they need in order to fight the fight that everybody's rooting 'em on for? howard: well, zelenskyy has emerged as an incredible leader in unusually difficult sickings -- spanishs. but, harold, on that last point president biden's reaction is he doesn't want to unnecessarily provoke vladimir putin and possibly start world war iii, but he hasn't hesitated to call him a butcher or to say that he

shouldn't be in power, so is it the media that are being too hawkish here and not sufficiently mindful of the dangers of escalation? >> well, first, i thought bret did an extraordinary job with zelenskyy. here's where i differ with you and jason, i think this white house for all of the challenges and even some of the shortcomings around presentation, this is a hard thing. this is not a, this is not a thesis that you're going to turn in at university of tennessee and university of utah here. these are real life consequences. so you raised it welsh howie, do we trigger something we don't want to trigger, do we rupture nato. i think zelenskyy -- sorry, putin, discounted three huge things that we've talked about. one, the ukrainian revolve; two, the resolve of its own mill military; and, three, the incredible unity nato has. democrats may give more credit to biden on this, i think he deserves a lot of it, but

western also weigh the consequences -- we should also weigh the consequences. i am one who believes we should supply them with every piece of weaponry and technology we possibly can -- they being the ukrainians -- to defend themselves, but i don't have all the facts many front of me, i don't have all the intelligence in front of me, and i trust this administration is going the best they can on this front. howard: i agree with you, but, jace, do you want9 to to respond about -- jason, do you want to respond to the media's role and the dangers of escalationsome. >> well, i do give some credit to joe biden and the understanding that we don't want to spark world war for. -- world war iii. but it goes back to your earlier question, howie, which is how is it that the president talks about regime change, about our troops going into the country, all these things that peter doocy talked about in his question, and then joe biden says, well, none of that happened. that a gives us zero credibility. the media needs to more widely report that story because that's the heart of the problem. and i think why vladimir putin

doesn't give a whole lot of credence to what the united states says and does. that started in afghanistan, and it's playing out in ukraine. howard: harold, i've got half a minute. a lot of media reports about vladimir putin being isolated, not listening to his advisers, but the problem is we don't completely know if that's true. it's coming from u.s. intel. >> this is true. to your point, if what you're i saying is true, we don't know. but we do know he thought he was going to be able to invade ukraine very quickly, that has not happened. he thought nato would rupture, that has not happened. he believed we would be reluctant to believe that we would give or nato would give support to ukraine. that has not happened. again, in the middle of this effort -- and jason and i were in congress on 9/11, after 9/11, excuse me, and i can tell you we made mistakes up to that point, but president bush was able to

martial support around the world. we supported him, there were mistakes, but there were far more accomplishments. we have to be willing to amplify the achievements on this war front as well. howard: everybody underestimated the ukrainians, i think it's fair to say. when we come back, donald trump asks vladimir putin to release damaging information on the biden family and faces a major media blowback. ♪ . i'm covered for everything. which reminds me, thank you for driving me to the drugstore. earn big time with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything. we've been coming here, since 1868. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but this is my happy place. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with therehealthy jointsof ways to make the most of your land. and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements

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this is xfinity rewards. our way of showing our appreciation. with rewards of all shapes and sizes. [ cheers ] are we actually going? yes!! and once in a lifetime moments. two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. howard: as vladimir putin continues to inflict appalling atrocities on ukraine, donald trump was back in the news, appealing to the russian leader over an unproven allegation that a russian oligarch married to the former moscow mayor paid a large sum of money to a business that hunter biden helped found. >> she gave him $3.5 million.

so i think putin would know the answer to it. i think he should release it. i'm sure he knows. >> the united states has seen that putin and the russian soldiers have committed war crimes, and yet trump is asking him for help. it is truly staggering. >> none of vladimir putin vladimir putin's war crimes have changed donald trump's mind about vladimir putin being a genius who he can can for favors. howard: jason chaffetz, that trump interview -- which has gotten a little coverage on fox -- has donald trump in the middle of this brutal war in ukraine publicly asking putin to release dirt which may or may not be true on the biden family. is that newsworthy? >> it's newsworthy that the former president made such comments, but he was responding to a direct question. any cub reporter, if they wanted to figure out how is it that hunter biden received millions of dollars, allegedly, from the

former mayor of moscow would say, hey, maybe we should ask the russians. that is not a ground-breaking, new revelation. it's something that years ago i believe donald trump had thrown out, so it's not new news, but don't put it out there and say, hey, donald trump was doing this and ignoring everything in ukraine. that is fundamentally not true. he was answering a direct question. howard: yeah, politicians ignore questions they want -- they don't want to answer all the time. i hear the very low-rated morning joe and his psycho wife mika, and i should not be asking about this if the money went to hunter and is joe -- again, absolutely no evidence that there was -- so he stands by it. >> he does. i would differ with jason here too. i think president trump was, continues to be uniquely unserious around a very serious issue.

if an investigation should take place, let's let the investigation take place with mr. biden, young mr. biden, and if there's anybody if else a that needs to be impri candidated, that information would unfold that way. but -- investigation would unfold. but amid war, i think the narrative is already there, again, it reminds you of soft -- of some of the things that americans who voted for trump in 2016 and against him in 2020, these are some of the things that i think people were hoping to rid the news feeds of. howard: right. jason, journal withists are pointing out that this is reminiscent of the so-called perfect phone call with zelenskyy when president trump was trying to get him to put out negative information about the bidens. but even as as a cold hearted political play, how does this help the republicans? >> well, i think there's a great deal of frustration that there is all kinds of information out there about hunter biden and the biden family taking, as peter

schweizer says, more than $30 million directly. there are situations in romania, in mexico, in china, in ukraine itself. how come the media has such a lack of intellectual cure curiosity -- curiosity? that raptop, the new rev ration that, hey, that is actually real? fox was reporting that a year, year and a half ago. that laptop was real. nobody's asking hard questions, nobody's pushing hunter biden. the rest of the media, they just absolutely ignore it, and for those of us who care about law and order and justice and everything else, they -- it's just terribly frustrating that the media doesn't do its job. howard: fair comment, but i notice you didn't say that trump's comments helped the republicans. harold, just finally, donald trump's detractors say he always makes it about himself and his political prospects. hasn't he given these critics, including those he calls fake news, more ammunition here? >> i think without question.

look, i'm one -- to answer your question directly, yes. i think the body politic is weakened when there are not serious ideas being batted around on both sides. i'm a democrat, but i love an honest, serious debate about the future of the country and the issues that will define that. when president trump does what he did over last several days, it animates the worst part of american politics and it's, again, one of the reasons he was not reelected. and to your question you asked jason, without question it hurts republicans, it hurts the body politic, and it aids democrats coming november, and for that matter, who years from now. howard: we talked about media hawkishness. msnbc host allie vel she has said he wants direct military involvement this many ukraine by the u.s. and nato. so at least some people on other networks are saying, yeah, let's get into a war. obviously, that has -- as we talked about, quite acutely.

good to see you both, harold ford, jason chaffetz, thanks very much for joining us. up next, griff jenkins on the challenges of reporting from ukraine. and later, why the media fixation on the oscars' slap is stronger than ever. ♪ ♪ i'm way ahead of schedule with my trusty team ♪ ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? timber... [ sighs heavily ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you've built with affordable coverage. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack? progressive helps protect what you've built trust safelite. >> tech vo: this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... ...then we got to work. we replaced his windshield

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howard: joining us now from lviv, ukraine, is griff jenkins, fox news correspondent who's report reported from many war zones. there's a complete lack of trust in anything russia says. explain. >> reporter: well, that's right. i mean, once you get on the ground here, howie, you quickly realize this is a country at war, and ukrainians are unified in a way they've never been, and they absolutely distrust russians. remember, early on in these 39 days of an invasion we heard russians saying they were not targeting civilians. now look at the images we've been showing all day long coming

out of places like bucha. just unbelievable atrocities being committed. then, of course, when retreat began after those negotiations midweek on wednesday this past week, they said that they were not going to be targeting, escalating things in the kyiv area, but yet they shelled heavily. so at every turn, the ukrainians do not trust russians because they've done exactly the opposite of what they said they would do, and it's really driven home the larger point, howie, that this is a war now that has no rules. russia's playing by no rules, and anyone is at risk of being indiscriminately killed. howard: given the risk, given the tragic loss of two of our fox colleagues, how does this war differ from others you've covered when it comes to staying safe? >> reporter: that's a great question. it's unlike anyone has covered in the last 20 years whether it be from iraq to hear in ukraine because there's no u.s. military here. you are truly on your own playing, as i just mentioned, in

a game with no rules. no marines, no army rangers are coming to get you. we don't have eyes in the sky to tell our partners. in 2015 at least you had the 82nd airborne putting eyes over us with iraqi special forces. that's not here. every area is dangerous. journalists have been killed in this conflict, just yesterday a photo-journalist said, you know, once you go in, you really put yourself at great risk because you don't know how you're going to get out, and you don't know where tragedy is going to strike, and that is just how high the stakes are, howie. howard: yeah. i've got about half a minute. obviously, zelenskyy is unhappy with what he sees as the slow pace of weapons from the west. now that you're there seeing the bombed-out buildings and seeing the human suffering, does it give you a different perspective than sitting here in a washington studio? >> reporter: it certainly makes

very abundantly clear you get to see closer the human suffering and the toll that it has taken on this country. that is why you're seeing president zelenskyy and every member of parliament pretty muca librarian we spoke to yesterday on "fox news live," give us the weapons, give us the missiles, give us the planes, let us win this war. the closer you get, the more you understand their mindset for making that desperate request. howard: precisely. griff jenkins, stay safe. appreciate your reporting. ahead, joe biden saying he wants donald trump prosecuted, but next on "mediabuzz," why will smith slapping chris rock reflects the worst of our media and entertainment culture. many. ♪ if n had autism, his future became my focus. lavender baths always calmed him. so we turned bath time into a business. ♪

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and i can walk. all of this is made possible because of heroes like you who go online to loveshriners.org right now and say yes, with your monthly support. when you do, we'll send you this adorable love to the rescue blanket as a thank you. and a reminder of all the kids whose hero you are each and every month. thank you, your support has changed our lives. thank you. thank you. gracias. thank you for being my hero. please call now. if operators are busy, please call again, or go to loveshriners.org right away. the world could use some more heroes and your call will make a difference. thank you for being our hero. howard: the schaap heard round the world is finally having some consequences. will smith just resigned from the academy which is investigating the violent

outburst burst that the media have now replaided a zillion times -- replayed a zillion times. [laughter] >> oh, wow. wow! will smith just smacked the [bleep] out of me. [laughter] >> keep my wife's name out your [bleep] mouth. >> wow, dude! >> yes. >> it was a g.i. jane joke. >> he did a great service for the oscars because if he hadn't slapped chris rock, the talk would have been how crappy and boring the show was yet again. >> this long-held perception in this country that men of color especially can't control their rage and ang, and just to see someone who's been that beloved for decades, it was troubling on so many levels. howard: joining us now from new york, kat timpf of fox's gutf if el -- gutfeld show. with will smith resigning from

the academy this weekend, he put out yet another scripted apology saying his actions were shocking, painful and inexcusable. all true. this strike ises me as way late damage control. >> right. of course it is because i think that you see when somebody really thinks it's just them up there, like when he gave his acceptance speech and got a standing ovation is, but unlike you or i, people like will smith have entire teams of pr people who are able to help craft these sorts of statements. it's not really so much him speaking from the heart as the team saying, hey a, this is where you should go with this. i'd love to have that luxury. i do not. [laughter] howard: nor did he even put out a video. the words, obviously, by his team, as you say. one of the cohosts reacted to the incident that everybody's still talking about. take a look. >> it was sickening. it was absolutely -- i physically felt ill. and for them to let him stay in

that room and enjoy the rest of the show and accept his award, i was, like, how gross is this. howard: now, the academy played defense, said that will smith was asked to leave the oscars after that televised slap -- some media reports say it was suggested that he leave, but he refused. excuse me, he refused? don't they have security? [laughter] bozo in the audience tossed out on his ear? >> right, absolutely. if i hit somebody, i have to leave where i was, and i couldn't just say, no. but, of course, it's interesting that in the wake of it, you know, wanda sykes is saying that amy schumer also saying she was traumatized by it. but at the time, after he gave that acceptance speech when he won best actor right after doing that, he got a standing ovation. people like jim carrey called that out saying this is sickening that somebody could behave like that and right after of that get a standing ovation. howard: i absolutely don't understand that. i don't understand the pro-will

smith tweets, some of which have been deleted. he now says he did something really wrong, and you're right, when it counted was when he was up there accepting the oscar. and he habit really paid a penalty until now -- hasn't really paid a penalty. now a couple of his film projects are being held up. let's go a little broader. doesn't this reelect frequent -- reflect what i call slap culture? trump loved to slap his opponents, and he got slapped all the time. biden tried to slap putin but kind of, sort of took it back. whether it's ginni thomas, clarence thomas, ketanji brown jackson, brett caf neigh -- brett kavanaugh, we have -- with clicks and retweets. >> i think this is unique in terms of the amount of media attention and different takes that people had. there was actually a piece in new york magazine, a guide to all the takes on the schaap is. when they first publish it,

there was 29, and when they updated on friday, they were up to 89 distinct different takes involving race, toxic masculinity the, someone brought up big farm -- pharma and then, of course, people saying donald trump, there was a cnn analyst who said this is how trump got normalized. it was a very shocking moment, but it's something that there's so many different angles on those few seconds. but to me, the most interesting thing is the response to it more so than the incident itself. because i agree with you, seeing so many people defending will smith over physical violence, i think, is part of this whole words are violence beyond all doubt that's been circulating for years especially if you look on college campuses and more liberal circlings. if words are violence, then violence is an acceptable response to what you just called violence, and i think that's harmful on a larger scale beyond just comedy. howard: yeah. i think all the people when you

go on twitter, facebook, i think it shows coarseness of the culture. and the fact that it's even a debate -- and i understand, everybody, you know, civilians as i call them i bump into is talking about this still, so i understand the reaction. but, wow. what about the effect not just on comedian,s, some of whom say they're worried about people getting physical if they don't like a joke is, but the black community? if kareem abdul-jabbar says black men are less able to control their emotions and smith just gave comfort to the enemy. >> yeah. he made that point, there was a piece in "the washington post" that made that point and also jemele hill wrote in the atlantic saying that some of her white friends were asking her e about that and she said, no, this is will smith's fault. so a lot of different people took a lot of different dives on that issue as well. again, this is one moment that it seems like everybody saw a little differently.

howard: yeah. kind of a rorschach test, i would say. >> yep. howard: and it is, you know, i do worry about -- i can understand. first of all, it stole the attention from best picture and the best actress and all that, and that, i think, is part of the damage that will smith did. and i think it's going to be -- >> including to himself in his moment. howard: yeah. look, the guy basically blew up his career. will he come back? probably, but we shall see. kat, thank you so much. after the break, that 7-hour gap in donald trump's phone logs on january 6th may be a nothing burger, and joe biden reportedly says he wants trump prosecuted. ♪ ♪ (driver 2) nope, i think it's your turn. (driver 1) i appreciate you so much, thank you so much... go. (driver 2) i appreciate your appreciation. it fills me. (burke) safe drivers save money with farmers. (bystander) just for driving safely? (burke) it's a farmers policy perk. get farmers and you could get a safe driver discount simply for having a clean driving record for three years.

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i was on the verge of getting gastric bypass surgery, and i saw the golo commercial, and it was the last thing i tried 'cause it worked. howard: is the latest media uproar over january 6th off the mark? the press went haywire when "the washington post"'s bob woodward and cbs' bob acosta obtained white house logs of president trump having placed or received no phone calls for over 7 hours while the cap capitol was under assault. >> it's astonishing and it's not believable r -- believable because trump is making calls that day. >> whether he made secret calls on burner phones, knew what they were doing was wrong and tried to hide it. simple as that. howard: but cnn says, well, there's no there there. >> there are no missing pages, and the 7-hour gap is likely

explained by the use of white house landlines, cell phones and personal cell phones that don't go through a switchboard. howard: joining us now to an rise the coverage in jacksonville, florida, susan ferrechio, national politics reporter for the washington times, and in san diego, laura -- susan, left-leaning news outlets portraying this as a scandal and cover-up, and along comes cnn and says perfectly plausible explanations, there's no scandal here. in -- >> well, that's great. that's the media correcting itself. "the washington post," i don't believe, has posted any kind of update to their story. cnn in the past has been caught in the same position. i believe they reported the story that don jr. got e-mails leaked to him ahead of time about wikileaks are, the wikileaks e-mails. it turned out that was incorrect, the timing was off and that, again, was leaked from

partisans in congress who have a real agenda. so is, again, it just raises this issue with the media accepting things from a partisan committee. and in this case, it's the january 6th committee. there's three republicans on that panel, but they're anti-trump republicans. you need to take everything they say with a grain of salt, and the reason "the washington post" didn't is there may be assumptions that president trump was trying to hide something. i would argue if this was a democrat, what they would probably have have done is fleshed out why that happened and probably discovered what cnn did, that this might be that unusual at all. instead, they ran are -- ran with it. howard: all right. laura, after a lot of media speculation, donald trump said he'd never heard of a burner phone, john bolton said, no, trump has discussed burner phones several times, but that's irrelevant if there's no need to use such a phone because other people are placing the calls. >> i think a couple things.

one, "the washington post" story was accurate and did say it was common practice for trump. that could explain those logs. i think we have to distinguish between what pundits are saying and their interpretation and is what actual journalists are writing and producing in terms of stories. i didn't actually see all of that indictment outside of pundits interpreting what was being said. but i think what it does shine a light on is the absolute vacuum of coverage. no leaks from merrick garland's justice department. and we know this common practice of trump flouting the presidential records act, we know he likes to destroy documents, he likes to take the documents down to mar-a-lago. that is why we see these large gaps and no accounting with the archives that were then subpoenaed. there's also merrick garland's decision to not prosecute contempt of congress e ferrells which means that that sunshine that the january 6th committee could be reviewing is also creating a advantage cream. that explains why a story like this is getting so much coverage. howard: since you brought up

merrick garland and he hasn't prosecuted those contempt charges so far, new york times today, page 1, reports, susan, that joe biden has confided to his inner circle that trump is a threat to democracy and should be prosecuted, but he hasn't said that, according to the story, to merrick garland. are the president's comments cause for concern in a story about growing political pressure on the a. g. to bring charges against the former president? >> yes. and when president trump called out bill barr and complained all the time, there was ample reporting about that, ask people a talked about it being inappropriate. trump is president biden's political foe. he's the democrat party's number one political foe. not only is he possibly going to run many 2024, even if he doesn't run, he's going to play a major influence probably on on the 2022 election and the 2024 election potentially. so i didn't see that reflected much in this new york times story, just framing it in terms of one political opponent against another here.

and one of them, of course, is the president of the united states trying to put the justice the president to go faster and further on this january 6th probe which we already know it's not showing so far that president trump is criminally liable for what happened. but they're trying to get there. they're trying to find a way to charge him criminally ahead of the '22 election and ahead of him possibly running in 2024. i think that's the story. howard: but, laura, shouldn't journalists make the distinction between donald trump publicly pressuring his a.g., bill barr, to prosecute his political opponents including obama and biden finish as we know from husband book and my interview with him -- and biden saying this privately perhaps not expecting it to be reported although somebody obviously decided to leak it? >> i think that's a huge distinction. dis, in fact, joe biden, president biden's hands are a little bit tied because he really wanted to establish the independence of the justice department. so even sort of normal conversations that may have happened between previous

presidents, presidents previous to trump are a not potentially happening because of biden's arm's length from the justice department. i think that is huge especially given the gravity of these, it's something we've never seen in our u.s.ly and since amendment -- history, an insurrection look to overturn our election. the stakes couldn't be higher, and merrick garland has quite a job ahead of him. howard: i think people on the left are engaging in exactly the conduct they criticized from the trump administration when trump admittedly, you know, put a lot of pressure on his doj. so i just want to make that point. let me get a break. still to come, madison cawthorn still got the media teas that attention -- media's attention. there was talk about drugs and orgies, and then came the backlash. ♪

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howard: republican congressman madison cawthorn made headlines when he portrayed some of his fellow lawmakers as trying to draw him into moral corruption as with this invitation. >> and then you realize they're asking you to come to an orgy or the fact that some of the people that are leading on the movement to try and remove, you know, addiction in our country, and you watch them doing a kilo of cocaine right in front of you. howard: house gop leader kevin mccarthy rebuked the congressman who told him the remarks were exaggerated. he did not tell the truth, that's unacceptable. susan, madison cawthorn, you know, look, orgies, cocaine, it gets a lot of media attention. with kevin mccarthy scolding him and some republicans talking about primarying him, it's kind of hard to blame this one on the media, isn't it? >> it's really about a young member of congress, he's 26 years old, he's trying to make a name for himself in a world where really just one law maker

out of 435, and he's got himself into real trouble here because, yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy in congress. you have members of congress saying one thing and doing another. we've covered it for years, there's a lot of corruption, a lot of misbehavior. but talking about an orgy and people snorting cocaine right in front of you, that's really pushing it to the realm of kind of fantasy land, i think. i've never heard of orgies happening on capitol hill, and and i've been around there a long time. and and i think he's gotten himself into trouble. if you have kevin mccarthy, the minority leader, who's potentially going to be the speaker saying he lost faith in you, you are in real trouble. he provides a block for the rest of the conference who may want to get rid of him. that's gone now. he's big trouble. he just got into it himself. howard: and yet, susan, cawthorn in a statement that he finally put out does say the left and the media want to use my words to divide the gop, i will not

back down to the mob. now, first of all, how is quoting his own videotaped words the media's fault? and, by the way, he doesn't deny having said it, he doesn't denied having told ken mccar think he was exaggerating -- kevin mccarthy. howard: it's very trumpian -- howard: i'm sorry, that was for laura. >> oh, you know, here's what i see, he broke the first rule of fight club which is you don't talk about fight club. if you're exposed to those allegations, you don't talk about them. and the media coverage is also driven by inside leaks because i would always say to my leaks, you can't have your own people going to the media and speaking ill against you. and he has crossed the line with inside if republicans, the speaker of the north carolina house, he's jumping districts, and this was really just the last straw. kevin mccarthy doesn't censure people publicly easily. you saw that with his almost reticence with respect to marjorie taylor green, paul gosar and the more inflammatory

scandals that they sad around their commentary and their choices. so this is a real landmark moment. it's an inside job, and this is a don't mess with the republican power structure. howard: yeah. i do want to agree with susan, both parties play this game. a number of lawmakers are interested in building their brand, saying things that get attention. you know, a couple weeks ago cawthorn call zelenskyy a thug, and that will obviously get headlines. good discussion. susan, laura, nice to see you this sunday. >> thank you. howard: and before we go, jen psaki is stepping down as white house press secretary in the coming weeks. as a, owes first reported -- axios first reported, she plans to join msnbc. she's not officially confirming that because of ethics rules. msnbc also hired kamala harris' spokeswoman simone sanders. perhaps the only surprise here is that psaki, who joined cnn

after the obama administration, didn't go back to her old network. well, that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." i'm howard kurtz. we hope you'll like us on facebook and twitter. check out my podcast, media buzz meter. looks like we're out of time, so i'll just say see you next sunday with the latest buzz. ♪ ♪ >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: that's service that fits your schedule. go to safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance.

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god bless you and eric: russia retreats from around kyiv, but now the shocking reports of unspeaking war crimes, the bodies of ukrainians left dead in the streets. the carnage prompting new calls for vladimir putin to be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. this as his army is accused of barbaric atrocities. russian forces continue to target ukraine, now aiming at the port city of odesa. more first first if missiling -- more missiles slamming into that city today as officials say the russians targeted oil