♪ howard: how can this be happening again and again and again? last sunday id stood the here and talked about the heartbreak of 10 mostly black shoppers being gunned down in buffalo, now it's 19 young children and 2 teachers at a texas elementary school almost a decade after of the massacre at sandy hook. "the washington post" says there were 42 school shootings of some kind last year, and you probably haven't heard of most of them. virginia tech, charleston, orlando, rf -- las vegas,

parkland, el paso, pittsburgh, brooklyn. i ask the question so many of you are asking, why are we not protecting our kids? why is nothing changing? as a journalist, i've had to cover too many of these mass shootings. perhaps we're becoming desensitized. as an american, a parent, you send your kids to school on an average day and never see him or her again. it's unspeakable yet that's what happened in uvalde, texas. i know this gets into background checks and red flag laws and other measures that advocates call common sense gun reform and opponents call a breach of the second amendment. there are also questions about how the texas police misled journal withists about school -- journalists about school security, about mental health, about social media radicalization and whether there's a way to stop sick, twisted men who just turned 18 -- as in texas and buffalo -- from legally buying guns. but the bottom line is that washington is paralyzed. it's highly unlikely that anything will change, and the media will soon move on from

this texas tragedy until the next mass shooting seizes the headlines. and that, my friends, is sad and unacceptable. i'm howard kurtz, and this is ooh "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: ahead, an in-depth conversation with kellyanne conway, why she still supports donald trump and the one issue where she doesn't. president biden, who's visiting uvalde today the, seemed weary and emotional when he addressed the nation hours after the massacre, and the pundits were already ratcheting up their rhetoric. >> as a nation we have to ask when in god's name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby? when in god's name we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done. i am sick and tire thed of it. we have to act. and don't tell me we can't have

an impact on this carnage. >> he spoke tonight because politics is selfish. because in today's twisted world it's considered perfectly appropriate to exploit the massacre of innocent little kids in order to try to turn around your own sagging poll numbers. >> there is something plaguing this country, and and we'll spend time figuring that out. but the president did spend time there at the beginning talking about in the on a human level. >> the republican party will do everything that the the republican party can possibly do to continue to make america's mass murderers the very best equipped mass murderers in the world. >> we hear from republicans that, well, our thoughts and prayers are with 'em. we're going to the hear from republicans, this is the cost of freedom. it's never time to talk about this, is it? they're cowards. they're such cowards.

howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage, guy benson, host of fox's guy benson radio show and podcast, and laura fink, commentator and democratic separatist. guy, it feels like we're stuck in this endlessly painful cycle. mass shooting, the politicians expression outrage, nothing gets done, and then another mass shooting. >> yep, you basically just summarized it. i think a lot of people believe that it is intoll the rabble. the question is why do we allow ourselves to maintain the exact same roles, the same scripts in this cycle. you can almost write out predictably what everyone will say, and it's like they've got their positions memorized, they go to battle stations, and it start thes within minutes. -- starts within minutes. i just hope maybe at some point there's an opportunity for people to change the script just a little bit and say maybe we shouldn't do the exact same things over and over again in terms of the way we interact with each other, the talking

points and say, okay, maybe let's sideline some of that and look at some solutions that may not satisfy everyone and may be incomplete because they're all a incomplete, but just have a different sounding conversation. and right now it feels like we are incapable of that. howard: it does feel that way. i'm glad that most of the media are not naming the dead texas shooter after of the initial reports. that's been my policy for a long time. laura, what message does it send when the media, most of the media, i should say, says this is awful, it's horrible, it's unthinkable but acknowledge that not much is going to change which is the cycle that played out after the killing of so many kids in newtown, connecticut? >> it's absolutely heartbreaking, howie, and i think what we see here is just the media and everyone else throwing up their hands. because after the tragedy, after the emotions, after the coverage of potential solutions and after of the coverage of gridlock, you get to resignation. and we're seeing that on warp

speed especially as we see these tragedies occurring on a weekly basis. i think you're also seeing a lot of coverage of the data, the data that demonstrates where americans' positions are on some of these things that president biden was talking about with respect to gun safety. i mean, this is one of those problems that is especially alarming because vast majorities of americans across the political spectrum agree on some basic things that can be done. but there is a real bedrock on the political system and republican primaries that prevents some of that action from happening. we see not just a tragedy here, but a real cavernous law in our own system. howard: yeah. we'll get to more of that, but if you look at what's been emerging, guy, texas police originally told journalists that two armed officers tried to stop the shooter, that wasn't true the. he went in an unlocked door. they waited more than an hour as students were calling 911. it is so heart-rebelling. parents growing agitated.

police handcuffed one mom, and governor greg abbott says he was misled. should the media call these initial accounts what they were, lies, fake news? >> i think so. and, it's interesting, we can have a big policy event about guns, gun controls, school safety measures. one thing that has been interesting about at least this particular incident is some of the combatants have stopped attacking each other because the country seems united in outrage over what actually happened many terms of the official response -- in terms of the official response, the police response, and then the account of that response. we had bill melugin on my radio show this week, he was on the ground in uvalde for us here at fox, and we were just marveling at the fact that for two days they told us there was a school resource officer who was armed, but very specific detailed; he

was wounded, he caused the shooter to drop an ammo bag. they told us very specific things about something that on day three said, oh, actually, never mind. that didn't happen at all. how is that possible? it seems like every press conference only makes it worse and confirms the worst about the response and the official accounts. howard: yeah. this is not fog of war stuff the, this is the total -- as you say, relying -- relaying with specificity of detail and turns out it's completely made up. it feels like the police were trying to put a good gloss on an awful response. everybody greece, the governor is angry. laura, by coincidence the nra held its convention over the last few days in texas. donald trump was one of the speakers. a lot of, obviously, public interest in what he would say about this. the president once said he was going to take on the nra. let's take a listen. >> we witnessed a now-familiar

parade of cynical politicians seeking to exploit the tears of sobbing families to increase they are own power and take away our constitutional rights. when joe biden blamed the gun lobby, he was talking about americans like you. howard: laura, the former president called for hardening school doors, for letting train thed teachers carry concealed weapons. the coverage -- and this was not carried live by any of the three major cable news networks -- suggests that the he was sort of playing to that crowd and staying away from any proposals whatsoever actually involving guns. >> and, certainly, we see donald trump from articulating very clearly the position of a lot of republicans across the board. and i think that's the real challenge here, is that this is actually in conning travis to public opinion and even public opinion among republicans. and so it really is a reflection of our politics today and our inability to really act on even things that large swaths of the

population agree upon. even when the stakes are as high as 19 beautiful children being gunned down. and that is, you know, and donald trump leading that charge and making that change is not surprising. howard: guy, by the way, nobody was allow to bring a gun into that convention. obviously, some people enjoying the contrast there the -- >> secret service -- howard: i understand. former president trump said the left wants total gun confiscation, modest changes to background checks will lead to more and more measures. that's a slippery slope argument. that is certainly not the mainstream media's position. the vast majority of the press is pretty much on one side of this gun debate. >> yeah. and we saw in recent weeks on abortion these are two of the issues where the9 media has a singular mindsettlement without -- mindset, almost without exception. howard: what about background checks, 60-70% for curtail thing or eliminating assault rifles? >> they ignore polls that are

80% in favor of abortion limitations because they don't favor those. only that card gets played in certain circumstances, not others. background checks, i happen to favor a few more background check provisions, but i'm not really sure that it would have prevented any of the mass shootings that you listedded off at the top of the show. the loopholes haven't actually been exploited in these mass shootings, so maybe that's something we can do to make ourselves feel better. i'm not sure it's responsive to the problem that we're seeing. and when there the have been background check provisions put to voters not in a poll, but actually on ballots in various states, the numbers are actually much closer than 80/20 because when you have a robust debate over something in a state, you know, in an electorate that's paying close attention, it's not theoretical, there's an actual bill and you see often a very divided country, which is what we are. howard: yeah. there's no legislation you could pass that would stop every one of these mass attacks. the roots are much broader and deeper. at the same time the, some are

even talking about raising the age limit for purchases to 21 because when you're 18, you can't rent a car, you can't drink technically, so forth. laura rah, beto o'rourke, the democrat running for texas governor, crashed the governor's press conference. let's take a brief look. >> no, this isn't the place -- >> this is totally -- >> sir, you're out of line. howard: laura, i thought that was kind of a tone deaf stunt the day after all these children were killed. he could haved had his own counter press conference a half hour later. request quickly, what are your thoughts? >> one person's stunt is another person's, you know, expression of outrage. i think what resonated in particular with that choice by beto o'rourke was the fact that a lot of americans are outraged, and they're upset at the people in power for not doing things. and i think that bad expression after shooting after shooting really is something that is reflective of how a lot of conversations that i'm having.

and, you know, i think the coverage of it was appropriate. i actually think i want to say overall, journalistic coverage of this shooting from the incidents and the discrepancies in the police reporting to the coverage of the data the that demonstrated the difference in american policy and the fact that the gun violence is the leading cause of death, i think those facts need to be in the public square and, hopefully, we move some people. howard: ahead, my sit-down with kellyanne conway, but when we come back, can journalists really keep their emotions out of a gut-wrenching story like the texas school shooting? ♪ i got into debt in college and, no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. between the high interest, the fees... i felt trapped. debt, debt, debt. so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low-rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt. get a personal loan with no fees,

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howard: fox news alert, president biden and the first lady have just gotten on a helicopter in san antonio

enroute to uvalde, texas. they're going to meet with survivors, family memberses of victims and first responders in a today of events. -- in a day of events. ♪ howard: journalists generally try to put their emotions aside when covering difficult stories, but with the texas school massacre, many are finding that impossible. >> i don't want to stop feeling. i don't want to survive this story and move on to the next. i don't want to move on. i don't think any of us want to move on until something actually happens. >> how is anybody doing this morning when you look at how this keeps happening? you and i have covered too many of these, and i try really hard -- it's getting harder. >> is this all of our fault? i mean, as a country, we're so divided. you hate someone else because they vote a different way than you do? they'll never see their kids again. howard: guy benson, i struggle with this myself, should

journalists show emotion in the wake of a terrible tragedy like this? >> well, journalists are not robots, and if you are describing on the air thoughter of 19 -- the slaughter of 19 children and 2 of their teachers and you don't feel something and you don't catch a lump in your throat, then maybe you don't have a pulse. we're humans, that's okay. if it crosses a line into performance -- i'm i'm not alleging that here -- that's another question. i get the sadness, the human compassion, the anger when you find out there's officers standing outside this locked door for an hour or so while the kids are begging for help inside with phone calls and such, i think that that is understandable. i would say, and you briefly alluded to this in the last segment, howie, that one thing that we in the media can do and i try to do it on the radio, it's your policy as well here on this show, there is data that suggests there's a copycat effect when we sort of

gloryfy -- glorify or lionize these shooters. people are out there watching, okay, interesting, his face is everywhere, his name is everywhere. i think you can check the box -- howard: yeah, and move on. >> -- never say the name again. that actually is something we can do in the media. howard: laura, your thoughts on journalists and emotions. >> i'm sorry, i have no sound. i can't hear you, howie. i'm missing all of our panelist discussion. oregon if you can hear me. -- i don't know if you can hear me. howard: can someone ask her to go ahead? well, i guess we'll try to get laura back. okay, laura? >> i'm here. i'm sorry, howie, i didn't hear your question. howard: your thoughts on journalists and showing motion in times of tragedy. >> i think it's important and i think it's human, and i think it's one of those things that is, again, reflective of how all of americans are feeling. i think it also demonstrates

that, you know, that journalists who normally don't show emotion, it's just been too much. too much volume, too many shootings, too many grocery stores and synagogues and schools that we have to see this day in and day out. and i think that emotion is real, and i think it's appropriate. howard: yeah, i'm with you on that. again, there's -- we don't want to cross the line but, you know or we are human beings. and i think the country looks to us to see how we're roadway acting -- reacting. friday's white house briefing, guy, one reporter after another just hammered away at the press secretary, why hasn't joe biden gotten anything done on guns, why hasn't he prioritized it, why hasn't he led. they were questions, but they were all in the same vein. >> yeah. i mean, is it lobbying? is it asking wes? i didn't see too many questions why hasn't he led on fill in the blank solution that doesn't involve gun control because there are legitimate parts of this conversation that have nothing to do with guns and have

to do with, you know, safety and school security, etc. it seems like in a lot of cases in the media it's a one-track solution, and they're all pushing for it. but that being said, i think it's a fair question. you could go back and maybe ask barack obama a similar question. he was president with 60 votes in the senate, they did nothing on guns. so it's one thing to rage at the other side, okay, what are you doing, how are you leading as opposed to just finger-pointing and casting blame. howard: laura, i've got half a minute. it seems democrats are saying republicans are heartless and they don't care about kids, and republicans are saying democrats want to take your guns away, and that seems to shrink the space almost to nothing for even modest steps toward dealing with this crisis. quick thoughts, please. >> well, i think even modest steps are blocked by republican inaction. and i think the way that you see that is you're not seeing proposals for school safety at the national level, you're not seeing proposals that would address mental health, both of

which are cited as potential causes in these incidents by republicans. so i think the lack of will to even advance those proposals and attach a republican brand to it is another reason why you're seeing in the inaction on those fronts. and then the durability, i have to mention it, the durability of the filibuster and democratic support of upholding that filibuster is another reason why you need 60 votes, not 50 plus 1. howard: all right. good conversation on a difficult topic. guy benson, laura fink, thanks very much. up next, how about all those media stories about the georgia election law preventing people from voting that turns out to be wrong? and later what kellyanne conway told president trump right after the election. ♪ ♪ drive off the lot. or more. that's why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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howard: when georgia passed a controversial election law last year, most of the mainstream media and led by the president loudly and repeatedly condemned it.

>> do you want to be the on the side of dr. king or george wallace? do you want to be on the side of john lewis or bull connor? >> the return of jim crow in georgia. the republicans' latest salvo in their war on democracy. >> this is the not about election security. not when you're making it a crime to give food or water to voters in hine are. howard: but it didn't turn out that way. i spoke to kyiv krakauer from -- steve krakauer from dallas. steve, welcome. >> hey, howie. good to be here. howard: with turnout in the georgia governor's race up 30 percent since the last midterms on the democratic side, stacey abrams running unopposed, and up 98% in the republican primary, doesn't all the a fiery criticism about how this was a danger to democracy and, of course, major league baseball moving the all-star game out of atlanta look absurdly overinflated? >> yes, absolutely. [laughter] look, it's not shocking that

democrats and other pundits on the left might make these certain, you know, voting rights stories a major issue in elections or in whatever campaigns they're trying to run. and the media should cover what the democrats are saying. the problem here is those things got so intertwined that the media started to make these same proclamations, as you mentioned, and that's really a problem because as we saw now it completely folded when it came to actually reality. so, yes, i think the major problem here and the media should go out and start to correct the record -- howard: but on that point, steve, with the exception of "the washington post," most major news organizations are reporting on the annual turnout but not mentioning all the gloom and doom predictions as if it never really happened last year. >> right, mentioning their own coverage of it before. no, exactly. the media is often very hesitant to say we got this wrong, and here now we're going to try to get it right. i have to say in this particular case it's an example of even

doing that doesn't do enough because most people see the story the first time, they see the coverage originally, and that that's -- they don't have time to start going looking at different sources and nine months down the road seeing what actually happened. they got it wrong, and the next story like this, take those as truth and actually go and start to examine the reality before they start to make these mistakes in the first place. howard: two big losses for donald trump in georgia. his arch enemy, republican governor brian kemp in a 50-point blowout over trump's endorsed candidate and secretary of state brad rathens berger also thesely i should say renominated, not reelected. how much -- and trump the has helped other candidates win. how much would the national media care about these individual a races if it wasn't to write stories about how trump is losing clout in the gop? >> yeah. you didn't see as much coverage of these georgia races that

trump, quote-unquote, lost as you did with j.d. vance in ohio. no, i think the storyline that the larger kind of media apparatus the likes is that trump still has this giant grip on the gop. these stories not so interesting because it tells the opposite story. howard: right. >> and i think trump certainly is a major figure but, look, the media loves trump because he's great for ratings and interest, and this is going to continue to happen for, you know, for cycles of elections to come. howard: i think you put your finning per on it. steve krakauer, thanks very much for joining us. >> anytime. thanks, howie. howard: next on "mediabuzz," kellyanne conway on dealing with the media, donald trump and the impact on her family. stay with us. ♪ ♪ go with simparica trio it's triple protection made simple!

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♪ howe kellyanne conway, no stranger to this show during the trump years, has just published a memoir called "here's the deal" about her time in the white house, and i talked to her about it from new york.

kellyanne conway, welcome. >> thank you, howie. thanks for covering my new book, "here's the deal." howard: got it in right away. [laughter] you generally had good relations with the press, but your former boss talked about news organizations being the enemy of the people, he mocked individual pundits and reporters. did you ever try to advise him against that? >> well, president trump knows how i feel, that i felt his best moments, his best days is when he was communicating information to the public that they otherwise would not have. that's why whether you like his tweets or you don't like his tweets, everybody had instant, free of charge presidential communication. the plumber on the job, the stay at home mom, the billionaire ceo were able to hear what was on the mind of the president. boy, do we really miss that now with this crew in the white house. of course, i'm not a big fan of the name-calling, but i will also say it's president trump who really looked past a lot of the name-calling that was being visited upon him and gave that

same press access. there he was sometimes an hour, who hours up at podium in the press briefing room, howie, to tell everyone what was going on with the coronavirus, later called covid-19. there he was in the oval office, talking to him under the wing of air force one, sometimes for close to an hour -- howard: yeah, he absolutely provided access. look, you are very loyal to donald trump, but in this book you break with him on what is the most important issue to him. you write after of the election i may have been the first person donald trump trust thed in his inner circle who told him that he had come up short in the time. was that a difficult conversation. >> well, yes, because i wanted him to win. it was heartbreaking. i voted for him, i wanted him to have a second term. obviously, this country would be much better off a because look at the manmade disaster that is the biden-harris presidency. but, howie, donald trump very recently in a movie put out by

citizens united he says there we lost. so he has said that. but i think he still can be curious about everything that happened. i still think we should say universal mail-in balloting is a problem, ballot harvesting, chain of custody, where's voter id? gee, the media spent almost three years looking for russia collusion never finding it, they couldn't just be a little cure curious and dig in a little bit? nothing to see here, we decide what the final conclusion is, no questions asked. howard: but donald trump is out there virtually every day trying to defeat republicans who challenge him on the stolen lectionaritive, and he is saying things -- lectionaritive, and her -- election narrative. he's saying it's the crime of the century, so you make clear that you believe joe biden is the legitimate winner of the election, but you don't seem to want to go the next step and criticize the former president. >> that's not true.

and that's, respectfully, the wrong way to characterize it. i think the way to look at it is where do we go from here. because the 74 million americans who voted for president trump, record number for a sitting president, what did they want? what are they looking for? the president knows how i feel because i tell him. elections are always about the future, not the past. howard: on january 6th you pleaded with a trump aide to tell the president to, please, speak out and stop the violence, but you also blamed those around him saying they were deluding himself, they were not giving trump the story and they were promising goods they could not deliver. do you believe donald trump bears some measure of responsibility for calling his supporters to washington and suggesting they march on the capitol? >> he had a rally and he said fight like hell. he has made very clear, you have to listen to his words and his intent, that he never knew people were going to go inside the capitol or, god forbid, what some of them actually did once inside the capitol. listen, it was shocking, howie, and i write in my book that i'm still in shock.

i think you've got many people in the main street media trying to castigate and mix together in this toxic brew the 74 million people who voted for donald trump who are hurting under the policies because he's not there anymore and those who breached the capitol. they're not the same. i think questioning the election in this state or that state to or the wisdom of mail-in ballots or ballot harvesting does not make you, as i say in the book, the q nonshamman,. i also went on live tv. i was on abc news live telling people if you're listening, get out of there. what are you doing? people can protest, but you don't breach the building. howard: let me -- >> so i do wonder even for you, howie, why every day is january 6th. can you explain that to me? howard: january 6th was a very dark day in our history. i understand a lot of people would -- >> i'm just asking why every day

is january 6th. is there a good answer to that? howard: for the media, you're saying? >> well, for you on the show and the media and democrats just generally and a couple of republicans who are having hearings on that -- howard: i agree that many people are using it as a political weapon, but i also wanted to ask you about it. but i do want to move on -- >> it's the covered in my book. howard: one other incident has to do with a briefing in the early months of the pandemic where he said there should be research into whether or not ingesting bleach could kill the virus. you called it an unforced error. president clearly misspoke by confusing the light therapy and the disinfectant. people still remember that. >> i devote an entire chapter on it because i sounded the alarm bells and took chief of staff mark meadows out of the oval, we walked down to the office so he could meet with this person from homeland security who the president did not know, and this is a great example of people trying to foist their own

agenda, let's get somebody else there in the briefing, and the president's not properly briefed. he conflated the two. i go through the entire episode that preceded it. howard: let me ask you about steve bannon. you say he denounced the media in public but privately was feeding barrels of bull to journalists. explain. >> that is the true. look, steve and i had a good relationship are. we were in the foxhole together with a couple of other people like jared and the president himself, a very small team that going to done. i think for me this hits close to home because so many of these folks wanted to prove i was a leaker. i have an entire chapter called how to spot a leaker, and it relates to conversation i had with the president. leakers get great press. does anybody really think that's me? leakers are constantly complimenting people like me, i don't know how you go out there

and talk to the media, kelly. i think people need to know the truth about who was feeding the media. howard: and someone else who accused you, as you write, unfairly, in your view, is jared kushner who you town if difficult to work with. >> jared did not want to work with me, apparently, on any number of things the president wanted us to collaborate on, and i think that is regrettable because at least when united states senators take my call or at least when i make it all the way to the white house, i know why. it's not a doubt. it's called merit, and it's called, frankly, integrity and performance. so i think that if the president asks people to work together the even if you don't have a pre-existing relationship which jared and i did have in the campaign, it was a good relationship, even if you don't particularly like the politics, you do it on behalf of the country. jared was constantly saying we don't trust her, she'll never get close to the president, she's a leaker, she's not going to be in that meeting, what does

she know about that a topic anyway, and i had deleterious effects on the a ability to get things done. and i feel jared getting in my way -- he's apologized since. i like jared, he's a smart person, we should have worked better together the. he should have brought me into the to 2020 campaign. howard: after the break, how the press pounced on their teenage the daughter's tiktok video. ♪ ♪ i'm steve, i lost 138 pounds in nine months on golo and taking release. since taking release, my sleep is way better. my inflammation has gone way down. i'm nonstop now, i feel way better than i did before. [ kimberly ] before clearchoice, my dental health was so bad i would be in a lot of pain.

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howard: more now of my conversation with former white house counselor kellyanne conway. as you write about in "here's the deal," your daughter claudia, who was 15 at the time, started making some pretty harsh anti-trump videos, and you blame "the new york times" for putting together a montage of those videos even though they were, obviously, publicly available. >> sure. there's lots of stuff that's publicly available. i see that -- i won't go there. taylor hour lorenz knew what she was doing, and now she's on tv crying when people publish her name. this is a 35-year-old grown woman direct messaging our 15-year-old daughter after midnight promising her fame, fortune, and it allowed the floodgates to open for other equally irresponsible and reprehensible, quote, reporters to talk to a minor child. howie, i don't know what the standards are at fox news or "the new york times", but there

don't seem to be standards in place that tell you what is right and what is just wrong when it comes to dealing with minors. and we're letting her just be talked to by a hungry media? do you think my daughter matters less? do you think that the sanctity of my family matters less? do you think that my marriage deserves more scrutiny because of how i vote or where i work? that is, that is the root of all evil that happened the here. and you know what? claudia and her siblings have more class and judgment in their pinky than the adults who were hounding them. howard: as a father, i sympathize. now, you write about your marriage in the book and trump the famously call george conway the husband from hell. you left the white house saying your kids needed more mama, less drama, and i think you thought -- you said you thought -- that george would step back as well. you're very candid, you told

your husband he was attacking you by attacking people in the white house, you write america will survive, george and i may not. it sounds like these struggles are still going on. >> look, george's vows were to me, to love, honor and cherish, and that also means supporting my work as he always had. and without george conway encouraging if not insisting me to take my shot in 2016 when i got the campaign manager offer, without him being there on election night in his maga hat applauding and so excitedly celebrating the election of donald trump and then taking a job, a big job in the trump administration, i probably would not have been able to. you do these things as a couple, as a family. and george changed his mind about donald trump, and i assume me. again, this is america. that's okay, howie. what's not okay is expressing it publicly so constantly and giving in to the mob who really only cares about clicks and

kicks, who only truly cares about drama and trauma because look at them? have you seen these people? they are terrified, thin-skinned, troubled people living in glass houses with very messy lives, and they just want to deal -- by the way, when president trump commented on george conway publicly and even privately, it was few and far between. i can recall three times privately that he mentioned george by name, and he only did that probably out of protection of me. he could have asked me to leaf, who could have blamed him if he said, listen, it's too much. i've got to worry about kim jong un and vladimir putin. he never did that. howard: you're back in the politics game now. could you see yourself working for donald trump in 2024? >> we'll see if he runs, and i know he wants to. he wants that rematch with joe biden to get this country's policies back on the right track, and as always, i will make the decision based on my family first which i did in

2016. there's no term limit on you being a mom, and les no gigger job -- there's no bigger job. i want joe biden and kamala harris out of there. howard: kellyanne conway, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you. howard: donald trump said in a statement kellyanne conway never told me she thought we lost the election. if she had, she would have been wrong, could go back to her husband. she told me she'd seen a trump draft student -- the statement praising the book. still to come, the u.s. military will defend taiwan. why does the white house keep walking that back? ♪ ♪

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♪ howard: it was the worst kept secret in washington, jen zack

sky was constrained from discussing it, but msnbc has announced the former press secretary will host an online show and join the network. the president of the united states was unambiguous on defending taiwan. he did not mince words. >> you didn't want to get involved in the ukraine conflict militarily for obvious reasons. are you willing to get involve militarily to defend taiwan if it comes to that? >> yes. >> you are? >> that's the commitment we made. howard: almost immediately the white house walked it back in a statement, as the president said, our policy has not changed. he reiterated our one china policy and our commitment to peace and stability across the taiwan strait. joining us now, kevin corke, who covers the white house for fox news. kevin, joe biden says we will defend taiwan militarily, period. he's the commander in chief. so why does the white house keep rushing out these statements

saying, no change ors nothing to see here? >> look, you're going to make mistakes, this happens with all presidents, but the problem is the alarming frequency with which this is happening by the president of the united states. he'll make a statement that's slightly off topic or make a statement that's slightly off the exact policy, and in doing so in and in being -- and in being inaccurate, it certainly makes the team run back out there. he did this before, howie with, back in october. howard: on taiwan. he's cede it at least twice, so this is the what he really thinks. a couple days later it seemed like the president had gotten with the program. let's show that. >> mr. president, would you send troops to taiwan if china the invaded? >> the policy's not changed at all. i said that when i made my statement yesterday. howard: except he didn't say that. so the pattern here going back to vladimir putin should be allowed to remain in power and, of course, another white house

clarification -- >> he's a war criminal, remember, he said that. howard: yeah. clearly, this is how he feeled -- feels. >> it is the how he feels, howie, but the problem is he's not some, to use an expression, he's not a big-mouthed senator from a small state like delaware do. you're the president. you have to be precise. and if you're imprecise, listen, china's foreign minister just as an example says china will take further actions to protect its sovereignty, when you make statements like this and they're precise -- imprecise or inaccurate altogether, it can have major policy implications. he's having to have his team play cleanup on aisle 5. if you do this repeatedly, it's not just a strategy the ec problem, you're not being strategically ambiguous, it's a problem because you force your team to do something they ought not do which is make you look like you're wrong. they need to be lifting up your message, and they're not able to do that all too often.

howard: i wonder whether the president is actually trying to send a message knowing the official policy will have to be walked back. look, you covered the trump white house. if the if president trump had done the exact same thing, would the media reaction have been the focus of his foreign policy knowledge? >> no. i think the problem would have been the media despised president trump writ large. you remember "the washington post", for example, had a daily fact check, and they had thousands and thousands of incidences where they accused him of lying even in the case where he may have misspoken. i think the difference would have been that the media would have said this is a person who is not buttoned up. even biden himself, you may recall back in 2001, said words matter in an op-ed that he wrote about then-president president bush who made sort of similar misstatements about taiwan. i think the media would have taken their shots at president trump. howard: words do matter especially when you're president. kevin corke, good to see you. that's it for this edition of immediate yahoo! was --

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arthel: fox news alert, president biden is now in uvalde, texas, on his way to meet with families. this is the happening after a gunman if killed 19 elementary students and 2 teachers five days ago. it's another somber trip for the president, the second time visiting the site of a mass shooting in just the past two weeks. welcome to "fox news live," i'm arthel neville. griff: and i'm griff jenkins filling in for the great eric shawn. the president will meet with the families of the victims and first responders later this afternoon. a memoria