>> secretary mayorkas, can you continue to maintain that the border is secure? >> yes, and we are working day in and day out to enhance its security. >> is the southern border currently in crisis, yes or no. >> we're seeing a significant challenge at the southern border. jacqui: secretary mayorkas is saying the border is secured even with challenges and more concerns that more migrants

will be coming in after the judge rules title 42 out. gentlemen, do they think that the border is secure? >> no, they don't. the secretary can claim that the border is security, but that's not matched up with the reality on the ground here, case in point, i want to show you video we shot as soon as we got to new mexico yesterday. as soon as we pulled up, within minutes, runners literally who climbed over the border wall and running in the desert who were running into a neighborhood. and they literally rappelled up the wall and then they go running off into the neighborhood. there were no border patrol agents anywar and we tried to follow them for 10 minutes and no agents showed up. they were presumed got-aways. last october, more than 64,000 of these known got-aways, and

more shocking footage out of del rio, eagle pass this morning, our drone showed an enormous group of several hundred migrants to crossed into eagle pass and self-surrendered typically remains cubans, nicaraguans, and from the dominican sector. it's an enormous drain on border patrol resources and a lot of people have to show up to progress the migrants. in the del rio sectors more than 1,400 illegal crossings and just since october 1st more than 72,000 illegal crossings in that sector. stunning numbers. we'll keep you in the del rio sector. our team shot as we embedded with the kinney county sheriff's office also in del rio sector as they pulled over and arrested a human smuggler and ended up being a 28-year-old guy out of the

houston area who was struggling four mexican nationals inside of his vehicle. you'll see some in the back seats and then they pop up in trunk, and a couple were smuggled back there as well. law enforcement are seeing more and more u.s. citizens caught up in the smuggling as the cartels advertise quick easy cash on tik tok. and a convicted child rapist was arrested after he crossed illegally. and his name is daniel nava sisco, and here in el paso, border patrol announced they arrested their own child sex predator, previously convicted of sexual of abuse of a minor in maryland, he was arrested after he crossed in this sector. and that's why it's so important to catch the

got-aways. jacqui: bill melugin, thank you. more insight on the national council spokesperson, chris cabrera. this is a story we've been reporting on for some time. you've got millions crossing illegally and you see the pictures there, with title 42 in place, not sure how well it's enforced. having said that if it's completely lifted you really just open the flood gate at the southern border? >> yeah, most definitely. you have title 42 being lifted. you have, remember, chuck schumer talking offering amnesty for everyone and you have mayorkas clueless to the fact that the border is anything, but secure. i mean, if mayorkas went down with bill melugin he'd see that the border is not secure. jacqui: well, they don't go down, the leaders don't go down. kamala harris, joe biden, you know, and it sort of seems the more they don't go down there, the more they can sort of claim they have no idea what is going

on or everything is okay, telling people that that they'll believe it, but we tell the stories and we show the pictures, and this is having an impact not just on what is considered a border state, but other communities within the united states as well. then certain places, for example, like new york city up in arms about the fact that migrants are sent here. why not here? why not anywhere else in the country? why should it be a certain select group of states completely overrun by this? >> you look at our communities down here, they're very small communities, we're a drop in the bucket population-wise compared to new york city or philadelphia or d.c. and we're handling the brunt of it down here and we just don't have the resources and manpower to deal with what's coming in and you have the leadership that's, quite frankly, they're derelict in their duty. they're not doing their job and then they're pretending it's not happening and nothing is getting better, it's only getting worse. >> this week, texas governor

greg abbott invoked the invasion clause of the u.s. and texas constitutions, he's saying it's going it give him a little more authority to protect his state and our country from the border crisis, but you know, chris, he obviously -- he can't do it alone and he doesn't have, you know, support from leaders of other states and blue states specifically. having said that, this is a human tragedy crisis, there's human trafficking, drugs coming across the border, crime that comes into this country. and governor abbott is trying to battle this essentially alone. >> yeah, and not to mention the suffering the people go through, special the young kids travelling here and their parents are already here and sending these kids alone on these dangerous journeys. and that's criminal to begin with and we're trying to save lives on that front, not to mention enforce the borders and we don't have the resources from our own agency to do the job. it's unfortunate that the state

of text test has to step in and do what the federal government refuses to do. >> that's a difficult situation, chris, we'll continue the conversation as we go on into the coming weeks and months with you. thank you so much. good to see you. >> all right. thank you. jacqui: to the other big story that we're following this morning, the brutal murder of those four university of idaho students. police in moscow, idaho say they don't believe the two surviving roommates were involved. they believe the four victims were likely asleep before they were attacked with a knife and that some of the bodies had defensive wounds. authorities are still searching for the weapon and for a suspect. retired d.c. detective ted williams is in moscow, idaho and joins us again. ted, this has been an interesting twist to the story that there were two roommates that were asleep in the house and apparently heard nothing. you know, didn't find out about this until the next day. the authority are saying they're not necessarily suspects in this case, but your

thoughts on how brutal killings could happen in a house and two people could literally sleep through the whole thing, especially with these defensive wounds that suggest there was some fighting back. >> yeah, jacqui, this is a real life mystery, an unfortunate one. what we know is that the house that's over my shoulder here, that there are at least six bedrooms, that there are two on the first floor, two on the second floor and two on the third floor. it is believed that the two individuals who survived this carnage were on the third floor of this home. what we do know, also, jacqui, is that you have this door here that has a coded lock and the killer or killers would have had to come through that door or in the back, there's a sliding glass door and the killer or killers could have

come through that door. what law enforcement has done, jacqui, they've put together a timeline. they know where these four victims were just before they came back to this king street location and they were during the course of the night killed. so, but law enforcement also, jacqui, got to tell you, has been very closed-mouthed. we know as part of the autopsy that they were killed with a single life. now, we don't know how many killer or killers were involved at this stage, so all a part of the investigation. but law enforcement have shared with us, that they believe that they were targeted. so, there was somebody, somebody in that house, or somebodies that were the target of this killer. jacqui: ted, some focus has been on the activities of the victims here in the hours before they came back to the house, before they were murdered. there is some video showing two of them at a food truck and it

seems like the authorities are trying to hone in on who they might have encountered along the way before they got home. if you make the assumption that this wasn't somebody that was targeting them specifically because they knew them, but that it might have been targeted in some other way, as a result of those interactions. is there anything that you know or shared about that aspect of this? >> well, what they're doing is they've cast a broad net and law enforcement in this case don't have tunnel vision, they're looking at all of the individuals that they know that were associated with these two or with these four victims. what they're also doing is doing a forensic scrub. they're trying to determine if any of the defensive wounds, was there any dna that they can use to try to bring the perpetrator or perpetrators to justice, so they're looking at

everything in this investigation, jacqui. jacqui: and the forensic evidence can sometimes crack cases wide open so we'll be waiting to hear about that. ted, thank you so much. >> my pleasure. jacqui: ahead, some hackers are trying to make it a very unhappy thanksgiving for some u.s. hospitals and their patients. we're going to tell you about a dangerous cyber attack and how a monster winter storm is stranding a whole lot of travelers trying to get home for the holidays. # customize your kitchen at lowe's with the samsung bespoke refrigerator. buy more save more on samsung appliances plus get $350 off instantly when you buy any 4 pieces. shop daily steals this black friday exclusively at lowe's. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger.

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>> welcome back, talk about bad timing. a massive snowstorm in the buffalo, new york area dumping more than five feet of snow in some places and creating a travel nightmare for folks headed out for thanksgiving holiday. fox weather's katie byrne is in the thick of it in west seneca, new york. hi, katie. >> yeah, erie county got rocked

with another wave of snow overtime at times coming down three inches an hour. with the sun out, the snow has taken a break before it intensifies again tonight. some people are trying to dig out. you can see they've got their work cut out for them. cars are under feet of snow in west seneca. we've seen reports of 49 inches this morning and we know there are dozens of abandoned cars nearby in erie county and some impassable roads in the county and officials say these are some of the worse conditions their plow truck drivers have dealt with. what makes this different is the fact, it's wet, heavy, in erie county, two people have died after shovelling their yards and caused a partial building collapse in hamburg. >> nothing else to do so i've got my exercise in today, so, about an hour and a half worth of shovelling. i'm from texas so it's a new experience for me. >> now, people are being asked to say off the roads. a travel ban is in place for

central erie county and parts of major highways are shut down. despite the road closures though, officials have rescued dozens of stranded drivers. as for flights, buffalo's airport is reopened and the runway is in the last hour or so after closing for a few hours this morning. not sure if anyone is going to get anywhere, but it's coming down through sunday and around here, many of the hotels are sold out and people staying in them, linemen staying for potential outages. about 4,000 people without power this new york. jacqui: stay warm. thank you for that. from a travel nightmare for some, thanksgiving travelers, to a nightmare for all thanksgiving shoppers. costs for turkey and the fixings soaring 20% this year and joining us now how to enjoy your thanksgiving meal on a budgets, from one of his supermarkets in pa ramas, new

jersey. i'm wondering what kind of trends you'll see as food prices are elevated. are people looking for smaller turkeys? cutting back on sides? what are you experiencing? >> we've seen things return to normal again. you know, we're seeing the people wanting to get out. you can see travel is up across the country. what we're seeing in the store, it's a busy saturday, and people are out and you want to get together with your families and our catering orders, where they're buying their thanksgiving dinner cooked already from our chef, and those are up stronger than they were in 2019, so, it's like return to normal again as far as shopping patterns go. jacqui: it's good to know about your catering options, i'm not quite the cook myself. but having said that. >> same with me. jacqui: it's interesting, what you're describing is despite the fact that prices are up for most things, whether it be food, gas, travel, consumers are continuing to spend and

we've seen evidence of that within the economy, that, you know, as americans we want to have our experiences, especially after being under lockdown and feeling like we were sequestered so long that we wanted a normal holiday season. basically what you're saying, the shoppers are blowing through that. however they're paying for it is another story, but they're managing. >> jacqui, they're shopping smarter today. look, our fresh turkeys and i recommend everybody go fresh, don't get a frozen turkey for thanksgiving. get a fresh turkey. they were 2.69 last year and free range, no antibiotics and that's what customers want today and they're 2.99 this year so we went up about 10% on our turkey prices. we're not making extra money on that. our farmer probably raised their price up more than 10% on that. we got a load of christmas trees and you talked about the weather up north. they came in with snow on them. i had a snowball fight yesterday with some of our

guys. but they're coming down right now. we had to go up 10% on our christmas trees. the costs probably went up about 15% on that. one of the things we're trying to do is being sensitive to the customer. we haven't raised the price of organic milk because a lot of babies are dependent and young moms are dependent on that. we're trying to be sensitive to our customers and you know, i don't think that people are going to see any sticker shock alt the supermarket. we're noticing shopping and buying specials more often, they're buying more private labels than national brands. jacqui: right. >> customers are smart and looking for ways to save money this holiday. jacqui: let me ask you a question, it may not be item by item, all of my items together when i check out, i spent 100 $150 more. that's noticeable to people. do they hem and haw about it in the store? >> you know what? they're savvy, they're more

savvy right now. they're buying what they need and not what they want. jacqui: right. >> i think there are ways to navigate around the food store, chicken prices are lower than last year and ground beef lower than last year. and the egg prices are up, you've got the avian flu that sort of hurt the supply of eggs. you're seeing those are up a little bit because of market, but you know, we've been in the business 50 years and we're a family business. we've ridden the supply and demand curve all year, there could be weather up in-- off the coast of maine and the lobster boats don't go out so lobster prices go up. we've ridden that and right now we see the supply chain seems to have repaired itself a little bit, but our farmers are telling us, their gas prices are up for their tractors and their feed prices are up.

jacqui: some things are better, some things are not. i totally hear you and you can't look or make overall kind of judgments on this. good it hear that people are out and shopping and still enthusiastic, we with you a happy thanksgiving and always good to see you. >> happy thanksgiving, jacqui, thank you. you have a great day, thank you. jacqui: still ahead when it comes to 2024 is a new trend in 2022 sending a warning to donald trump and joe biden. and twitter workers, elon musk, did they give him an ultimatum? new car replacement, you can get a new one. (customer) that is something else. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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>> welcome back. you're taking a live look at some pictures from smyrna, georgia. that's republican candidate for the u.s. senate hershel walker. he's holding a rally there with georgia governor brian kemp as

part of the evict warnock bus tour. everybody making those pushes on the campaign as the runoff in georgia will be held on december 6th. all right, now to las vegas where some 2024 presidential hopefuls are betting that being in the spotlight at a republican jewish coalition leadership meeting may help them gain some attention. alexandria huff is there with a packed lineup of speakers. >> hi, good to be with you. it's indeed packed and the only declared candidate is former president trump who is speaking this afternoon. he's the only declared candidate shall that is of all those who are here, but he will follow several speakers last night, potential primary challengers of his who spoke on the stage saying that the party needs somebody new. >> this is serious business, but we need not be angry, we need not be mean. we need not call names. we need to make the case and win the argument. >> look, this is the third

election in a row that we lost and should have won. i say three strikes and you're o out. >> so this criticism was lobbed following the defeat of high profile trump-backed candidates last week and maryland governor larry hogan and secretary of state mike pompeo feel they know longer like and shots at former vice-president mike pence, but they were direct. >> i truly believe to win the future that we as our republican leaders and electors must do more than criticize and com complain. >> so we're expecting to hear more of the same today throughout the evening and during the second day of the republican jewish coalition's annual meeting and governor chris sununu will speak along with tim scott, nikki haley and governor desantis who will address the crowd and incoming israeli prime minister benjamin

netanyahu. this is an influential room likely seen as the first cattle call of the 2024 election cycle. jacqui: thank you so much. we're not sure if or when the potential 2024 contenders will jump in. we do know that 76-year-old donald trump is in and soon to be 80-year-old joe biden indicated he'll run again. with a lot more younger voters turning out in 2022, will it be harder for them in 2024? joining me lee carter and doug shone. good to see you both. i don't want to be accused of being ageist here, but this is an ongoing conversation. joe biden at 80 and president trump at 76 currently, only going to be a little older when 2024 rolls around and we did see a lot of young voters turn out and there is some question about whether, both parties need just a little bit of fresh

air and blood and life breathed into everything? >> yeah, no doubt about it. it's an issue for voters and it's on both sides of the aisle. so 86% of americans say that the cut-off for the age of running for president should be 75, and looking at biden and trump, 68% of americans think that joe biden wouldn't be up for the job and others for trump. en 0 the republican side some of the younger candidates in particular, we saw what happened in florida with ran desantis, an incredible victory for him lots and lots of enthusiasm and i think there will be room as well. the question is who is going to be able to fill the shoes, it's not as clear of the emerging leaders on the left as on the right. jacqui: doug, i'll come to you

on this. because nancy pelosi resigning, she made this commentary herself saying it was time to pass the baton over, and granted she's held on for 20 years. the new leadership coming up in the house isn't necessarily so clear on the democrat's side. >> yeah, i think if someone like hakeem jefferson emerges as the likely minority leader, a person of color, highly qualified from new york, i think that he would offer the prospect as a younger man of fresh ideas and fresh service. i think the other point i would make is the issue dynamic of 2022, particularly for democrats on issues like abortion were to stimulate younger voters to turn out. lee is undeniably correct that both parties would benefit by new and younger leadership, fresh ideas. she's also right that the republicans have a deeper bench

than democrats. democrats do have the incumbent president who at this point has made it clear he is in fact running for reelection and if he does, he will get the nomination. jacqui: and lee, back to you on this, because obviously since the last time i believe i spoke to you on the air, donald trump has now announced he'll be running in 2024, and it feels like the expectation is that the announcement would clear the field in some way or possibly, you know, give the message to certain people maybe it's know the time to run. what do you think? how do you think that people that we are looking at right now are taking that announcement? do you think that it will be, you know, crowded stage? or not so crowded. >> i think it's going to be a very crowded stage. i think the reaction to donald trump's announcement isn't as enthusiastic as maybe even he expected. when you look at the polling numbers, a lot of people aren't as enthusiastic as they might have been. this is a long way out. we're still in 2022, 2024 is a

long way away. in 2015 we were expecting it to be jeb bush as republican nominee, so i think there's really no way of knowing, but i expect the deep-- the bench to be deep. you can see a lot of people out there. mike pence is clearly putting himself front and center and there's others like nikki haley, certainly governor desantis is going to put himself out there. i expect them to be at least a dozen doing exploratory work right now. jacqui: and of course, desantis had the huge win in florida and many people say this is his time, but we'll see. thank you both so much for coming on, lee and doug, always great to see you. >> good to see you. jacqui: ahead, well over 100 hospitals in 21 states getting hit by a cyber attack putting patient's privacy and lives in danger. what does it keep happening? north korea firing off another missile test. while that's not new, officials warning this one could potentially hit the u.s. that's next. my fellow veterans because i know so

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>> u.k. prime minister meeting with ukrainian president zelenskyy today in kyiv. 's promising that britain will provide 125 anti-aircraft guns and technology to counter russia using those iranian drones. this is as millions of ukrainians are still without power after russia targeted energy sites there, to fox's greg palkot live in kyiv for us with more.

hi, greg. >> hi, jacqui. more help for batteried kyiv as yes, there's more attacks by russia and the power situation here becomes dire. u.k. prime minister, the latest high profile visitor in kyiv promising more british military aid to beef up anti-missile and air defenses. this after a punishing week of russians attacks here closer to the breaking point. take a look at what we're seeing and hearing. >> president zelenskyy on a frigid saturday afternoon in kyiv with u.k. prime minister sunak. honoring those who lost their lives as this increasingly cold and bitter and finding war with russia continues. russia strikes continue against ukraine's power grid, millions without electricity and heat this week. civilian infrastructure hit by moscow's missiles and drones, amid russian defeat on the

battlefield. most of the private utility has been damaged as well as many transmission lines and workers raced to repair. and the day we interviewed the ceo, we ended up in a bomb shelter amid air raid alerts. >> we have no choice, but to defend our country and find a solution to keep on and keeping this country heated and keep our people in the country to fight. >> keep our people in the country to fight, jacqui, those are the words from that utility executive. one more note about the missile landing in poland on tuesday which killed two. initial reports said it could have been russian. u.s. and others saying it was probably a ukrainian air defense missile. kyiv now saying, yes, it might have been theirs. still, the fight here goes on. back to you. jacqui: it sure does. greg palkot, thank you. to the fallout from that missile that did hit poland.

and dragging the united states and allies deeper into the conflict. let's ask ambassador voelker. this is not something that triggered something larger per se, but it's a fear that people have worried about for some time and the longer the conflict continues, the more chance for something to happen. >> that's exactly right. the risk has not gone away. we have to make sure that we're thinking about this clearly. it doesn't really matter if it was a ukrainian missile or a russian missile. the only reason it happened is because russia is launching these massive missile barrages against ukraine and ukraine is trying to defend itself with air defense missiles. one may have gone astray or it may have been a russian missile. that's not the point, the point is that russia's war is dangerous for n.a.t.o. >> it's a great point and greg made the point as well that russia is going for key infrastructure.

obviously, the temperatures are dropping and getting very cold on the ground there, and taking out the power and the heat makes it very difficult for the ukrainians. having said that, they are committed to continue on the fight and to move forward, but this is going to be a really difficult winter. >> yeah, it's going to be a hard winter. there will be power outages that affect heating and may affect water supplies, but the ukrainians are incredibly determined to keep fighting, to ride this out. it's either do without water or do with russian occupation and torture chambers and war crimes covering hundreds of thousands of people in ukraine. so, they're determined to fight and they'll take the water shortages, the power shortages and keep fighting rather than see their countrymen subjected to such abuse. >> how do you see this eventually resolving itself? does the conflict go on until, you know, one party has perceived, you know, a win

here? or at some point is there a conversation that may not be as popular of a solution, but to have diplomatic conversations between the two? >> well, i can't see the ukrainians agreeing to give up part of their country any more than i can see the united states giving up new england or germany giving up bavaria, it's just not going to happen. so, the ukrainians are going to fight to take their territory back. what is interesting here is that russia, who everyone presumed was a much stronger military power is actually failing militarily. they tried to take over the whole country, remember back in the spring take to take kyiv, pushed out away from there and this past week ukraine retook kherson in the south and i think this is the pattern that we'll see. ukraine continuing to take territory back and that's going to create problems for putin inside russia. jacqui: the russian army wasn't as robust as many expected, but yet they still continue to be in it so we will continue to

watch the story and see how it plays out. ambassador, thank you. thank you. jacqui: to the tech world where hundreds of twitter employees reportedly hit the road after elon musk demanded that they do extremely hard core work or leave. that left the company on the ropes. ♪ hit the road jack, don't you come back no more, no more ♪

>> welcome back. hundreds of twitter employees are said to have the exit doors after elon musk's ultimatum to do hard core work or leave. can twitter survive the mass exodus? it's a big question and one that elon musk is obviously putting his money down on the fact that it will be able to survive. the kings view asset management, scott martin with us now. this is a silicon valley

culture and this isn't a post pandemic we don't want to go back to the office. he's making serious demands and you wonder if there are people even within that sphere that will be able to step up to the plate? >> yeah, they move around a little jacqui. i probably would have chosen my words more carefully than the ones said earlier, but silicon valley is going through changes for sure, but musk for shadowed this. when he did the deal talked about laying off 75% of the workers and wanted to revamp the company and following through on that. if you look at other companies throughout his career and he's made quick moves, fast, and he's doing that with twitter. jacqui: i look at his leadership style at other companies, tesla and spacex, this is par for the core for elon musk. i'm not surprised here and generally been very, very successful. it's know the it's difficult

to say that some people say he's got it wrong. >> and the fact that he's followed through on numbers and cuts and actually asked some of the folks to come back days later which obviously was a little bit of a misconstruing here. and it probably does need a rebuild with different people underneath him. twitter has got a positive outlook if he can get the workers that he wants. jacqui: it's interesting, even with all of these headlines, he says that engagement is up, and sometimes it goes back to this idea that, you know, any kind of headlines, any kind of press, even bad ones, don't necessarily hurt the underlying product. >> very true. and that sounds, obviously, in my case, too, based on lunches i had last month that got some big attention because of what i spent, but in reality, that's what twitter is about. twitter is about show, it's about fanfare, it's about wrangling and whatnot so the platform is kind of imitating itself in a way, jacqui, you're

right. if twitter comes back better than before, better than ever with new leadership with musk and people that he wants there, it could be better than it's ever been and therefore record engagement results as well. jacqui: he's got a lot of work to do. he's got to get the right staff in place, get rid of the bots and see how people feel about paying for their blue checks. >> he's got tesla, too, to worry about. jacqui: and tesla, but he gives us a headline every day so i know we'll be talking to you again. >> see you. jacqui: a random attack on hospitals and health care centers exposing dangers to patients and their lives. how do we stop the cyber attacks once and for all? next. y hectic life you'd think retirement would be the last thing on my mind. thankfully, voya provides comprehensive solutions and shows me how to get the most out of my workplace benefits. voya helps me feel like i've got it all under control. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus.

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>> 140 hospitals and over

1,000 care sites in 21 states getting hit by a ransomware attacks and fox's gillian turner has the latest from washington. >> ambulances diverted, urgent cancer surgeries delayed, patients overdosed on medications, though no one died. and that's ransomware attacks on common spirit health, hospitals and cancer centers nationwide. hackers hijacked the company's i.t. system, encrypted it and blocked doctors and nurses from accessing patients records for 11 days and they're working diligently to bring systems online and restore full functionality as quickly and safely as possible. three-year-old jay's mother says doctors at a hospital run

by common spirit gave her son a dosage of opioids five times described, she says it's because they couldn't get to his records. and he's okay, but there are risks of dangerous health care and having their medical records leaked. >> it's a double whammy when it comes to your health care and your own personal information protected. >> ransomware attacks increase 94% from 2021, to 2022, and over two-thirds of health care organizations reported a ransom wear attack in 2021. this week, the open medical center attack saying it's promised 500,000 patients medical records and the hackers are demanding tens of millions of dollars. the fbi director christopher wray testified before congress that the threat to hospitals from hackers are on the rise and claimed the bureau

prevented the attack just last year. >> thank you. how big of a threat is this, and why does it so many like we could never seem to stop the hackers. the former fbi director, john bennett, joins me now to discuss it. john, obviously the attacks are scary and there are significant consequences as well. we move to digital systems thinking it would be a wonderful thing, it is in some ways, but it also leaves us vulnerable. what exactly is being done to make sure that we can secure our facilities and our systems? >> good morning, jacqui, yeah, this continues to be a big problem. the health care industry is a favored victim of these threat actors. there are, if you think about the threat platforms that are out there, the interconnecttivity between a hospital and a pharmacy, your health records, there are a lot of doors and windows for hackers to get in and this needs to be addressed at the highest levels of these health

care industries and board of directors and leadership and making sure that people understand they're part of the security of that network. >> do we have any idea where the hackers are coming from? are they domestic? is it international? >> sure, and that's a great question, jacqui. they are international and they are here in the united states, and they are in europe. they are our nation states and criminal organizations, and it's quite the wild west out there right now and it will continue to be because hackers understand that hospitals and health care systems are so vulnerable that they will pay the ransom and this is all about getting that money. it goes back to the dillinger quote, why does he rob a bank? that's where the money are, why are they going after the hospitals? that's where they know they'll get payout. >> i was going to ask you, in most cases do people raise their hands and say we'll pay it, please stop? >> you know, in some cases that's the cost of doing

business and some hospitals understand that. but that could be prevented. there are rings and layers of security in the industry that they should be thinking about. who are you going to bring to the fight when you have a problem. they should be established days, weeks and months before you have a problem and bringing in cyber security experts. hospitals are great at mass casualty events, but i would argue the mass casualty of a network going down, they're not that good at and they need to have the experts behind them to really come in and get them back on their feet and protect them quickly. >> right, it's certainly an investment that needs to be made, having said that, you zoo he what happens here in the health care space specifically, and a lot of people were able-- what about the energy grid and our power grids. what else is vulnerable in the country? >> yeah, and then what we see, you know, from my company and from our industry is that there are those critical infrastructures that are vulnerable and there are a lot of people scrambling right now

to put resources and equipment on board, but, you know, as we've seen, the ability to hire out of this problem is not there. there are not enough cyber security experts out there, that's why you have to establish all of this in advance, and those other industries as you talked about are vulnerable as well. >> how much would it cost, you know, a hospital, for example, to bring in the proper experts, the proper security, and really, you know, kind of staff up and protect themselves in that way? >> yeah, jacqui, that's a great question. some of this, as i said. it's really the layers of security. it starts with some of the board of directors owning this and making sure that they are provisioning i.t. systems and resources to prevent this. but it's also staff education and it's also, you know, establishing contracts before you have a problem and it is multi-layer. jacqui: thank you so much, john. good to see you, scary stuff,

but good to know that there are resources out there and we're on top of it. see you again soon and thank you to everybody at home for watching us today. have a very happy thanksgiving. fox news live from washington d.c. with griff jenkins and aishah hasnie is coming up next. vision insurance doesn't do you any good if you don't use it. just like this treadmill i bought, that i keep saying that i'll use... but never do. yeah. with hundreds of frames to choose from, you can put your vision insurance to good use at america's best. book an exam today. buy more save more on qualifying appliances like our lg kitchen suites. get $300 off instantly when you buy select 3 pieces. shop daily steals this black friday, exclusively at lowe's. all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work helping them achieve financial freedom.

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>> you're looking live at a house in the small town of mass cow, idaho. that community stilling reeling from the horrific murder of four university of idaho students one week ago. police have not announced any official suspects or persons of interest in the case that has gripped the nation. welcome to fox news live, i'm griff jenkins. aishah: hi, griff. local police are getting help from the fbi