season. [laughter] thanksgiving is behind us. there's how you can, by the way, turn all your thanksgiving leftovers into some simply awesome cooking. >> thank you, all. rachel: it was great having you. >> fors -- it was fun. rachel: do you feel like you broke into the building, like we do, on the weekends? >> kind of. will: see you tomorrow. >> it's a very opportune way to get what you need for a fairly good price. we're all out trying to save money. >> we were just like, why don't we just go and see what kind of deals they might have on different things. >> microwave for $20 and air fryers for $40. hey, i can't miss that. charles: holiday shoppers across the nation hunting for bargains as they deal with inflation, but les an even bigger problem looming, the threat of a rail strike looking all too the real,

now threatening to stop do or die shopping season in its tracks. good with morning, everyone. i'm charles payne many for cavuto, and this is "cavuto live." more on that rail strike in a minute, but first, how holiday shopping is kicking off this weekend. nate foy is tracking all the action outside of macy's in harold's square, new york city. nate. >> reporter: charles, good morning. yeah, a r09 of people getting ahead of that potential problem with the possibility of the rail strike, getting the items that they want while they can. and on top of that, a lot of people have tight budgets with inflation being what it is. but despite that, a projected 166 million consumers will be shopping between thursday and monday this holiday weekend. black friday so far the busiest day. take a look at this graphic. during that a- day stretch -- 5-day stretch, consumers are expected to spend $34.8 billion, which is a 3% increase from haas year. now, the official numbers from black friday haven't come in yet, but it's expected to be

$9.2 billion in online sales which would be a 1% increase from last year. but with inflation being almost 8%, retailers are actually losing ground in online sales. take a look at this video, charles. after two years of pandemic disruptions, a lot of people are going back into stores this year. a lot of the popular items that we're seeing, apple air pods as well as apple watches, smart tvs, smart speakers, digital cameras as well, and a lot of people are really excited to go into the store, hold these items many person and take hem home correctly. listen to this. >> it's more fun to do it in person because you get to interabout with other people and see it in person. i'm a hands-on person, so i like to buy stuff at the store. >> reporter: now, if you're planning on going out and shopping hear in these gnu next but days, adobe analytics says here's what you need to know. if you're shopping for toys, you should do that today. sporting goods and apparel,

tomorrow you will find the best deals for those items. computers, of course, cyber monday where discounts are expected to reach 27%. now back out here live, charles, today is small business saturday which is, comparatively speaking, expected to be one of the less busy days, but cyber monday just two days away where consumers are expected to spend even more money online hand they did during black friday. back to you. charles: nate, thank you very much. now to that potential rail strike nearing as retailers and the white house are both scrambling. lucas tomlinson has the latest from nantucket, massachusetts, where president joe biden has been spending his thanksgiving holiday. lucas. >> reporter: good morning, charles. a little breezy here on the island, gusts up to 40 miles per hour. president biden. venturing to town yesterday with his family for the tree-lighting ceremony, an annual tradition here on the island. they had ally -- a little trouble with the lights not

coming on at first but eventually they did. the president venturing into a local bookstore as well. on the mainland, a different story. a railroad strike looms. back in september biden took credit for averting that strike. that deal is now in danger. this time biden says he's not jumping in to help negotiate, however. >> my team is in touch with all parties, and i have, i have not directly engaged where yet. they're sill talking. >> reporter: just a few days ago a much different story from biden's own press secretary who said the opposite. >> the president is, indeed, involved directly, but i don't want to get into details at this time. but he has been involved. i just said the president has been directly involved. he's been in ouch. this is this is the third time i'm saying he's been directly involved.

>> reporter: yesterday while americans flooded stores across the country, house of amazon workers around the world walked out on the job citing low pay and poor working condition. the white house apparently responding to the crisis in a tweet, quote: while we buy gifts for our loved ones, let us be thankful for all the work -- folks working hard this holiday season. now president biden and his family return to washington tomorrow. some questions loom about whether he will run again in 2024. biden says he intends to run, but the final decision will be made, he says, early next year. charles? charles: lucas, thank you very much. just how bad would a rail strike be percent overall economy and, of course, getting those presents under the tree? let's watch hawaii that hitha herzog, gary kaltbaum and victoria fernandez. hitha, you say a strike maybe could be averted. if it's not, how serious would it be? >> incredibly serious.

if there is a strike is, i mean, we're talking about the rail strike, and then there's this other situation happening with truckers and workers that are delivering freight via trucks. her getting furloughed, they are getting fired in droves. so if you have a combination of those two, what ends up happening is there's a massive impact on the price of goods, especially food and especially the products that need to get delivered. so you're going to see not only are we dealing with inflation, but we're going to see more price increase on the products out there because there is a shortage of supply because of these two, the strike and this furloughing and firing of all the truck drivers. charles: right. victoria, of course, a lot of folks have talked about how strong the consumer has been throughout all of this, you know, of course, runaway inflation. but we start to look at it, for instance, adjusted for inflation, and you are starting to see some cracks in the retail

consumer, aren't we? >> yeah, you know, charles, we have -- we are a little bit. we think consumer balance sheets are still pretty strong, but are we seeing credit card balances and revolving credit moving higher? we are. it's still less than pre-pandemic as a percentage of debt limits, but it is moving higher. and, obviously, if you have a rail strike, if we start to affect things where 40% of packaged goods are now going to be affected, 50% of commuter traffic on rails is boeing to be a23ebg9ed concern going to be affected, agriculture's going to be affected, obviously, it is going to have an impact on the consumer at a time when we're starting to look at a recessioning coming in 2023. you and i talk about the yield curves and the inversions that we're see ising there quite often. -- seeing there quite often. it's just more pressure to do that in an environment that we haven't had in 30 years. there there hasn't been a rail strike if since 1992. there could be a lot of follow through that hits the consumer

at a time when they're already stretched. charles: right. and, of course, there's the diesel shortage as well which invariably will add to costs. maybe not in time for the holidays, thank goodness for that, gru, but there's a lot of dark crowds out there. >> well, i look at several things. number one, savings rates have plunged. credit card usage has skyrocketed. in the market we have widest inverted yield curve in many, many years which usually presages a recession. we're now getting, you know, job cuts especially in technology. we got 'em in the crypto area and the mortgage area for darn good reason. so this had better not happen. 40% of freight, and you don't have enough truckers to cover it, and we're talking food, chemicals, fertilizer, retail, you name it. and hen there'll be jobs. so, hopefully, we get something like '92 the where congress blinked after just two days of a strike and got a binding up arbitration on this and hopefully gets done sooner

rather hand later because i can promise you a fragile economy will not be able to take something like this. charles: and, of course, hitha, we haven't even talked about the federal reserve which is deliberately trying to slow the economy and, of course, they have the tools to make that happen too. >> you're absolutely right. and victoria mentioned the way the consumer is spending, a lot on credit. and i do want to make point: it is very easy for the consumer to spend not just on credit, but as well the way that these pay now or buy now, pay later mechanisms that consumers are using. so we are seeing about 70% of consumers using this and 25% of those consumers just now, this is the first time using these types of ways to pay for things. that's according to an oracle study. so we were, you know, we were looking into this, and i think it comes back down to the consumer psychology. that consumer feels that they need to go out and shop, they need to spend as some sort of

salve of what they've seen in past years. charles: right. >> federal reserve impacting this. prices continue to go up when it becomes very easy for the consumer to spend on credit and money that hay don't have, they're going to go ahead and do it. charles: yeah. that's the american mantra the, right? shop til you drop. [laughter] i want to pick that up too, victoria, because buy now, pay later, a big company that does it was valued at, like, $80 billion coming into the year, $20 billion now. it's so funny, because when i told my wife about the concept, she was, like, i'm from the bronx, that ain't gonna work. [laughter] everyone's taking on a lot of risk right now to try to keep this economy going. we are going to shop. we do see credit card bills have rocketed at the fastest pace in 20 the years. don't we hit a ceiling at some point? >> yeah, you have to. remember back in the day, charles, it was layaway -- charles: oh, i remember.

>> you doesn't get your item until you -- you didn't get your item until you paid it off. and that is going to cause a buildup and some issues. and when you look at a federal reserve that is trying to bring down inflation, they're trying to tighten up that labor market, i think this is going to be a component that's really going to fill into that. we're looking for more people to come into the work force, looking for that participation rate to go higher. i just don't see the mentality of the consumer right now fitting into that mold which, in my opinion, means the federal reserve is going to have to continue to raise rates and just continue to push these types of behavior. charles: gary, i just got 20 seconds. give you final world, my man. >> well, you said it, i call it the popeye credit, wimpy one, i'll pay you tuesday for a hamburger today. and the numbers on that are stunning and staggering. and i just wonder, a consumer

that's spent up and we're going to know in 2023. we just have an economy that has worked off of 0% interest rates, $9 trillion of money, so '23, for me, going to be quite interesting and right now i'm not feeling too great, and i hope i'm wrong. charles: feels like we're living on borrowed time, but i do think we're going to enjoy the holidays. hitha, gary, victoria, thank you very much. still ahead, a harrowing rescue of a man who fell off a cruise ship in the gulf of mexico. the coast guard calling it a miracle. and police returning to the scene where four idaho students were brutally stabbed to death. find out what they're learning hour as their search continues. at a price that you won't believe. where? lowe's, actually. black friday is here! get our best deals on everything for the season while you can.

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what could they be hooking for? ler -- here now, bill daly. while why would they be going back so many days after the attack? >> good question. there are some things that come about in the course of reviewing forensic information they have, raking everything from taking measurements inside the home where maybe they need some of this for future prosecution when they catch the individual. it could also be collecting additional data, maybe photographs of doorjambs where there were tool marks or many some cases police have been known to actually remove drainpipes to get what remnants may be in the drain. we are figuring at this point the actual scene where the murders took place has been both well covered by police as well as maybe people coming in afterwards or even cleaning the aftermath up. so i would probably suggest that they're now kind of fine tuning things. it could be predicated on some additional information they have, hay want to go back and qualify that on scene.

but i think it does lead towards them making sure they have a good case once they catch the individual or individuals. charles: a lot of anxiety over the fact that it's taking long. during the press conference, the authorities said, you know, they tried to make it more possing -- positive. i think world they used always a whole picture, was the term. but just how much more difficult is it as each day goes by? >> well, i don't think each day going by, you know, makes it more difficult, i think it just goes to show you that, you know, it is a very complex scene and perhaps because there wasn't my immediate trail of someone perhaps within the orbit of these victims who's responsible that gets a little bit more difficult to kind of pull it together. you know, it's something -- i'm going to fall back on some of my former colleagues from the fbi are saying, you know, which is, you know, this is something that perhaps was committed by one individual, maybe two, is that

in the person probably was in their orbit at some point. i call it orbit, meaning minute that had some contact with them. in fact, just yesterday one of the victim's fathers said police had told him that police believe only one of the victims was the target the, and the others, unfortunately, were casualties associated with that. charles: ivan spoken to several -- i've spoken to several folks in law enforcement, and that issue, that particular part of it has become somewhat contentious. some are saying maybe it's the wrong theory, maybe, you know, it's that they put it out will too early, the notion that this was a targeted attack and then on the other side of this, bill, folks in the community are saying if you know it was targeted, can you share more information for us so we we know who may be, who could be a potential target in the future? >> yeah. that's exactly right. and i think police have tried to do that with some of their press conferences and tell them all the things they're doing and

give them some sense of confidence. but certainly, when you're living in a community where perhaps you to thinkable killer is out and about -- think this killer is out and about, what would happen if he thinks crag-- dragnet is closing in around him. perhaps some people chose wily associated with the scene are saying the pact that this has gone on so long doesn't suggest sophistication, it just means individual or individuals when committed this act happened to be maybe fortunate in the pact of what they didn't leave behind that wasn't necessarily incriminating to them. but it doesn't mean as time goes along and even as we get into the next week or so, charles, and you and i know sometimes these things fade from the headlines as other things come up, police are working it. literally, they have scores of investigators working on this, and i do believe they'll come to a conclusion. it may be not as quickly as we all would like in our tv time

frame, but they will find this individual. charles: bill daly, thank you very much. we're also following the dramatic rescue of a man who fell overboard from a carnival cruise ship and was found and saved hours later by the coast guard. alexandria of has the story. >> reporter: this is a wild tale. two things are typically required, other people need to have seen the fall happen, and a rescue operation needs to kick off immediately. neither of those things were able to happen in this case. no one saw this 28-year-old man fall in, but somehow hay believe he spent up to 21 hours treading water. you can see him in the dark waters waving before being hoisted up to safety. the man was sound responsive but exhibited hype memoryic-like symptom according to are rescue crews. in a statement, a coordinator for the new orleans coast guard shared, quote: it took a total team effort from coast guard

watch standers, response crews and our professional maritime partners operating in the gulf with of mexico to locate the missing individual and get him to safety. the man was found about 20 miles from the southwest pass which is a channel at the mouth of the mississippi river are. he was reported missing to the guard around 2:30 p.m. thursday, pulled from the water around 8:30 p.m. according to the ap, he was last seen by his sister the night before when he left the bar to use the bathroom. hay report -- now, this carnival ship was bound for cozumel, mexico, but turned around and retraced its tens in that route to help with the search. charles? charles: absolutely amazing. coming up, homeland security chief alejandro mayorkas says he's not going anywhere after kevin mccarthy tells him he wants to him to get going. and with president biden kicking student loan payments down the

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charles: president joe biden putting those student loan payments on hold yet again, and now taxpayers are are on the hook, in fact, one watchdog group putting the cost for this latest extension at another $40 billion, and it all comes amid a supreme court ballot over his loan forgiveness push. joining me now, a constitutional lawyer, katie true kousky. a group of states are asking the high court to scrap it. how do you think it will go? >> this is a very serious separation of powers issue, and i think the biden administration has attempted to make this about

fairness to those who took out these loans, but the bigger question is whether the administration has the legal authority to extend the statute that they're using for this loan forgiveness program to the extent that they're trying to. and i think hat supreme court is going to be very wary of that. charles: apparently, they're using the so-called heroes act which forgave student loans for military members back, i think, you know, during the gulf war era. and i guess there's a part in there that says other emergency, other periods of emergencies. recently, president biden declared the pandemic was over, and so even with that in mind, where's the immediate emergenciesome so it feels to me, again as a layman, that this is a bridge too far. >> well, i i think that you're exactly right, and i think that it was a very creative interpretation to try to fulfill the campaign promise of canceling this department through existing legislation that never contemplated it would be used to this extent with this much money on the line are

that's not only being erased for the, for those with loan, but being transferred to other tax pa -- taxpayers. it comes down to the constitutional analysis of whether that legislation could reasonably be interpreted to allow for this funding by the executive branch. and i don't think the supreme court, again, is going to be the very accepting of that, from what i see. charles: yeah. and then the notion of fairness, haas a whole different kettle of fish, particularly for persons -- americans who don't have college degrees. what about kicking this can down the road? the math is at about $190 billion, and eventually students have to pay that back, but can president biden keep doing this until the 2024 election? i mean, is there a limit to how long he can keep this moratorium going? pleasure. >> i think that's the bigger question here and, ultimately, there's two cases that are pending. if they continue to get rulings or that are contrary to the administration's position that

program cannot continue, i think at some point the buck is going to stop. but ultimately, president biden is going to push this out as far as possible. he doesn't want to be the one holding the bag when the payments restart because that's against what he's promised people. at this point he's going to extend it the most significant amount he can, but when they have final rulings in some of these courts, i think that's going to end that a, and and he's ultimately going to have to continue to recoup the payments. charles: and, of course, we've seen that with some of these other moratoriums, right? the rental issue, again, the administration got pretty creative with it but, ultimately, a judge said, no, you know, it doesn't work. i mean, it's -- what i'm concerned about is what happens if these the kids, or, you know, young adults now, you know, feeling like they were never going to have to pay this money back actually went out and spent money and had this false sense of security, hay they may end up owing all this mentioner right? >> absolutely, they will. and i think that really when you're making these promises

using, again, existing legislation, it's a far reach. and i don't think the biden administration and their attorneys thought this wasn't a far reach, i think they wanted to push this out as much as they possibly can. but legally speaking, constitutionally speaking, it's on very shaky ground, and it always has been, and they're all probably well aware of that. charles: a cynic might say they got what they wanted out of it, a pretty good midterm turnout. katie, thank you very much. >> absolutely, thank you. carling charles thanks a lot. from stuffed bellies to packed airports. with thanksgiving over, the wicked weather that could wreak havoc on your holiday can travel. but first to georgia where early voting is underway in a tight senate runoff race and how the candidates are making their final push with 10 days left. , all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're providing greater access to investing,

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charles: polls are open in georgia after the state's supreme court ruled in favor of allowing early voting today. republican senate candidate herschel walker and democratic incumbent raphael warnock have just 10 days heft to make their final pitch to voters. steve harrigan is in georgia with the latest. >> reporter: charles, a pretty good crowd here for early voting, much the same scene at poll stations across georgia. there seems to be a lot of excitement, people coming out again for this runoff election between senator raphael warnock, the democrat, and rer shell walker, the republican, former football star. warnock had 37,000 more votes last time around. he failed to hit 50%. for that reason there is a runoff in georgia. it's been an incredibly expensive election, both sides pouring more than $30 million into television ads for this runoff election alone. warnock in a stronger position as far as cash on hand goes, almost three times as much as a walker. both sides trying to get their base out again but also moving

towards the middle. in some of his campaign ads, warnock features himself walking a dog, and he attacks walker's character saying he's unfit to be a senator. >> you'd think herschel walker would want to explain what he'd do in the senate if he actually wants to represent georgia. instead, he repeats the same lies. >> reporter: some of the walker ads also feature a dog, it's often people other than walker speaking. once again, the subject is walker's character. many of hose people in his ads -- those people many his ad as praising walker as a role model. [no audio] >> reporter: the real battle here is around the atlanta suburbs. both sides trying to take advantage of that. the republican governor, kemp, was reelected easily, but he got 200,000 more votes than walker did, so a lot of people voting for kemp, not for walker. republicans trying to change that now.

kemp going out on the campaign trail for walker and, of course, whichever side wins, control of the senate will still be in democratic hands unlike two years ago when the runoff determined who controls the senate. charles, back to you. charles: thanks a lot, steve. so it's all about turnout and those split-ticket voters. the republican governor stumping for herschel walker, former president obama is set to campaign for raphael warnock right now. who's got the momentum right now? susan crabtree and kristin hawn. susan, three times, i was shocked when steve said three times the amount of up money. that's a lot of cash and sounds like that's a great way to build a lot of momentum. >> certainly. the republicans had a hard time with money in this cycle. hair big donors were tired -- their big donors were tired and said we're not giving any more, and they also botched the early voting. brian kemp, the governor of georgia, was one of the people

who did not do so. he actually bested abrams in early voting by 6,000 votes, and then he was -- it was a blow on election day for republicans giving him about a 7-point margin. so, actually, the herr -- herschel walker team has borrowed that team a, the ground game team from kemp, and they're hoping to really up their early voting game and get that turnout going because that's really going to be the difference. kemp wasn't able to carry him over, but they had different ground game operations, and the national republican senatetorial committee was faulted along with the rnc for not putting an emphasis on the early voting across the country. and what trying to see if is you're going to have republicans really trying to up the early voting in those rural counties and in atlanta to combat what avenue well war knock -- raphael warnock is -- charles: susan, no matter what

happens, les going to be a lot of soul searching and probably continued finger pointing. kristin, right now i would imagine democrats feel pretty confident. >> i think we do. you know, those -- it's pretty remarkable that a you mentioned those 200,000 voters who came out to vote for the governor and overwhelmingly elected him and chose not to vote for walker. it's unlikely it comes town to a ground game right now, but it's unlikely that those voters won't get to the polls to vote for walker when they actually made a decision not to before, so i think the democrats peel pretty good -- charles: although there was a wildcard, right, the libertarian candidate. didn't the libertarian candidate take just enough votes, kristin, that if the majority of them had gone to walker, maybe there wouldn't be a runoff? >> yeah, you look at that a but also we're in a runoff right now, so you look at the independent voters, and warnock as of a few todays ago was leading walker by about 15

percentage points, and in a runoff election, that can actually make a difference. that's not a good sign for walker. charles: susan, senator warnock was asked by fox digital if president obama -- president biden would join him on the trail. >> would you welcome president biden down, or are there any mans for him to join you on the campaign trail? >> president obama's -- [inaudible] i don't control the schedule of the president of the united states. we've got a little over two weeks. we'll see who shows up. [laughter] charles:s all right, susan, we just talked about issues within the republican party. that doesn't sound too good, that doesn't sound ooh ooh good with respect to president biden. >> president biden had offered, he said he would do whatever warnock if wanted him to do, would make himself available. so that's an interesting response. he knows well that biden did offer. and is also you have in the brian kemp ad that he cut for walker, you have him really

focusing on biden, saying he's not going to change his agenda at all this cycle in the last press conference he had after of the election. and that's been a focus with going back to inflation. of course, the warnock team is focused on walker's baggage and his gaffes. that's always been a problem for walker. but the biden administration has had this inflation problem going on, and it's echoed from the general campaign. hopefully, they're trying to send that message home with brian kemp. charles: and, of course, president biden's had a few gaffes of his own. kristin, i want to go back to you on that because a lot was made of it, obviously, going into the midterms. democrats feel like everything worked out anyway and president biden certainly taking credit, in fact, emboldened enough to be talking more aggressively about 2024. >> yeah. i think a lot of it, if you look at the midterms across the board, it came town to the quality of candidates.

down. and i think that's reflected here too in the georgia race. i mean, we have an incredibly flawed candidate in herschel walker. that's not even beginning to describe it. and in raphael warnock, you have somebody that people really relate to. and so i think eventually it comes down to who the candidate is, and if i'm him, i want to make it about me and not about the national party or the president. charles: yeah. although some would say both candidates have a little bit of hair on 'em, let's just -- for lack of a better term. ladies, thank you both very much, susan crabtree, kristin hawn, appreciate it. meanwhile, folks, drunk drivers aren't the only concern on the roads this holiday season for police. the new danger they're looking out for. and later with more and more migrants coming in, house minority leader kevin minute -- mccarthy calling to push the head of homeland security out. how he's responding, coming up. ♪ policy perk, new car replacement, you can get a new one.

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charles: millions of holiday travelers hitting the road this weekend, and while trunk drivers already have finish drunk drivers already have police on arelater, there's a few concern as more states are legalizing marijuana. madison alworth is riding along with the police in new jersey to find out more about new driving danger. madison. >> reporter: charles, holiday season police departments across the u.s. are always on high alert for drinking and driving. but now with the spreading legalization of can bus, hay also have to look out for drivers who are high and operating their vehicle. we're doing a ride-along today with sergeant shane temple who's a drug recognition if expert. i want to ask him a couple questions. what are you looking for for drivers that might be under the influence of marijuana? >> so it's very similar to looking for drivers under the influence of alcohol. both things make it so you can't focus on more than one task. so operation of a vehicle is fairly similar. and then when they're stopped, even the standardized field

sobriety tests that i can administer or my patrolman are going to show impairment. it's then later on when you get into processing where you're given the opportunity to do the breathalyzer test where it's determine it's not necessarily alcohol, it's something else, and that's where i come in as a drug recognition expert. once we figure out it's not an alcohol dwi, i do a standardized set of 12 tests which are able to determine what drug can category you're under the influence of which includes cannabis. >> reporter: so you've obviously been trained in this, but it is different than alcohol where you have a standardized test and a limit, a breathalyzer, blowing a .08, you're in trouble. you don't have the same for marijuana, so what challenge does that present when it comes to identifying that this person shouldn't be driving? >> it makes it fairly simple to still identify, it's when we go to court and we have to prove it that it becomes more channeling. obviously, the breathalyzer test has been around for a long time. it's been determined to be

scientifically reliabling and gives you an actual readout. dres have been around for a long time, and our evaluations have also a been found scientifically reliable, however, it relies much more on my testimony, my observations, things that a we see when we're doing the test than just a printout that gives you a number. so there's no per se evaluation but, again, my evaluation -- it's a little more tricky, but it works just same. >> reporter: got it. thank you so much, sergeant. a big part of this is they coa lot of outreach as well. it's, you know, challenging when you meet that person on the road. they try and do it before hand, so getting out to the schools and talking to students about the dangers of driving while high is something they actively work on. charles, back to you. charles: thanks a lot, madison, great stuff. meanwhile, shoppers aren't the only ones out in portion, how retailers are working against the rise in shoplifters. but first, you've heard of helicopter parenting, but what does the opposite look like? there's a new parenting trend

that's letting kids call the shots, all the shots, next.

♪ charles: if you think making the right decisions for your kids is tough, what would you say about letting them be the ones to call the shots? that's what some families are doing in a trend that's known as free range parenting. they say it encourages kids to be independent while critics argue it could be dangerous. what would my next guest do? independent women's forum kelsey bo lahr. i know you're a mom of two, kelsey. what do you think? well, let me just start off like this, or i'm a little older than you, wink-wink -- [laughter] and when i grew up, we didn't have bicycle helmets. i used to disappear for a long time, i mean, for hours on end,

and is we had so much fun, and we played on the monkey bars and the parallel bars, and we didn't care, we fell, we got scrapes. and there's been this longing by a lot of people to bring that back. that's gone, maybe it's gone forever. so now i'll ask you, is there room forking something like that? >> -- for something like that many. >> exactly, charles. free range parenting has existed for generations. we perhaps didn't have the labels where we tried to put them many neat little boxes of these different parenting strategies, but certainly it sounds like your parents practiced some form of free range parenting as a did many especially back in the day before we had cell phones where we could be tracking our children's every move if. and so is there are some critics of free range parenting. i can el you as a young mom, it's becoming more difficult. i have to force myself out of my own comfort zone to be more of a free range parent because it feels like in today's culture where the schools are trying to

indoctrinate your children, expose them to inappropriate content, not age appropriate, you know, these covid policies that are affecting their ability to learn, you have to force yourself to not be a helicopter parent, to encourage your children to have more independence. but, yes, it seems like our culture today is not so excited about giving these kids independence, and i do think, you know, this is important, to teach our children consequences of their actions and to encourage them to develop into their own beings. charles: right. there's another part of this so sort of evolving story, it's called gentle parenting where you raise a kid using understanding and empathy and respect and no corporal punishment, no autocratic control. and this gets, i guess, to the part where people are saying some of these kids are running outside barefoot and things like that. do you find a way to draw a line?

if you would like your kid to have some exercise more independent, should there be a line drawn? >> first off, charles, i can't get my kids to keep their shoes on their feet -- [laughter] so i think it's actually good if for children to have their feet -- charles: i guess from someone like many new york city, you know what i mean? but i get ya, i get ya. >> exactly. and so every parenting strategy can be taken to the extreme. of course, free range parenting can be taken too far, and that's why we have reasonable laws at the state and federal level, to protect children from any sort of child endangerment. but it's important to balance those laws with parental rights, enabling and empowering parents to be able to raise the children, their children how hay see fit. and i fear our societies, our authority figures are more and more telling parents we know how to parent better than you, and we need to return that authority back to the parents, trust them to make their own decisions for

their children and also trust that our laws will protect them if hay do talk any of these strategies to the extreme. carl article so that brings me to something else that's going on, and this is community parenting. not community parenting like, you know, your neighbors looked out for your kids, but you hear president, vice president kamala harris kind of talk about this a lot. there's a movement where the kids are sort of the domain of the entire community. like, they don't just belong to the parent anymore. and that's sort of evolving alongside this. you know, i'm starting to see red flags about this because i know, identify seen throughout -- i've seen throughout history where these ideas start off, they germinate, they start to water it, and they wait until it's a full-fledged movement that's hard to stop the. what about the notion that your children aren't really yours, that they belong to the community? >> yeah. of course this concept, i believe, has already been taken to the extreme. in theory, yes, we want a community helping us raise our

children. but what's happening is these authority figures are abusing their power and stripping parents of their basic rights. we have educators, school boards no longer listening to parents, telling hem it's okay to have -- them it's okay to have pornographic material in the libraries, exposing that type of content to young children. and so unfortunately i think what could be a good strategy of community, communities helping to raise children has already, you know, become abused, and i fear that this stripping parents of their essential rights -- it's happened slowly, and parents, you know, i think are waking up, especially what happened with covid, they're waking up to what's happening. charles: yeah. and i'm glad you brought that up, because i think that's the new movement, right in i hope it doesn't go away. i think a lot of people looked over to see what their kids were learning on those laptops, went to school meetings and hearing people saying they had no right

to authority over their kids. i remember when you became a mom the first time, you know, kelsey, a lot of good stuff there. really appreciate grow. thank you very much. we'll talk again soon. meanwhile, the dhs pushing back on house republican leader kevin mccarthy's call to push their head of the department out. we're going to talk to lieutenant chris oliveras when we come back. ...

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you, i