♪ muck. howard: well, we now know they lied. top twitter executives said they would never dream of censoring conservatives and certainly not for ideological reasons. a bombshell batch of twitter files released by elon musk reveals the old management targeted prominent conservatives through blacklisting, shadow banning and blocking their posts from rending all without their knowledge -- trending. two twitter calfers -- staffers said we control the amplification of your content, and normal people don't know it. and just in, company executives who revealed they couldn't stand

donald trump suppressed trump's tweets even before the 2020 the election, doing this to the president of the united states. and suddenly changed their own rules to permanently ban him right after january 6th. we now know the entire system which included a secret committee at the very top was aimed at censoring speech by those on the right. the rules were blatantly abused out of sheer liberal partisanship. if if they didn't like something, they branded it misinformation. some are saying, oh, we knew this all along, but thanks to elon musk, it's now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. more on this in moments. i'm howard kurtz, and this is "mediabuzz". ♪ ♪ howard: ahead, martha maccallum on the bitter media debate over the brittney griner prisoner swap. the media hostility towards herschel walker was clear when

the networks projected his loss to raphael warnock and some celebrating hosts and pundits piled on. >> america showed us again they weren't going to vote for crazy. herschel walker was a wholly unqualified, out of the box candidate. >> herschel walker needs to be an inspiration. now it means insult. he's an insult to the black community. >> without the black and minority vote there is no democratic party, so they have to demonize herschel walker, a black man who happens to care about freedom, liberty and the right to decide what's best for your interests. >> we don't change anything. we have the same people in place in leadership, same anemia place apparently at the rnc. i'm pissed tonight, frankly. howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage a, guy benson and in new york harold ford, the former democratic congressman and fox news contributor. guy, herschel walker was mired in one controversy after another. was he treated unfairly by the

media, or was there no way to avoid covering all of these allegations about abortion and children he rarely saw and other accounts by accusers? >> well, i don't think he was treated appreciably worse than most republicans are treated especially in big, important races that the media cares about collectively, and they generally root for democrats because they mostly are democrats. but i think that the there is something to the premise of that question which is herschel walker, while being a football star and standout and beloved in that state for his exploits on the field, was not a tested or terribly good political candidate who had a lot of baggage that emerged over the course of the race. i'm not sure he handled all that baggager by well. he was vastly outspent, sort of ran a bit of a skeleton campaign it seemed like down the stretch toward runoff election, and then the pattern that was all over the country continued. incumbents in the united states senate running -- winning, and that's exactly what rafael

warnock did with all of those advantages playing in his paver. howard: right. i certainly think it's fair to the criticize the timing of only of those accusations. harrell, there are a lot of factors at play here, but is it smart for a candidate, even one who's under siege, to stop talking to the press and lose that platform? >> well, first off, thanks for having me, happy sunday. i never think you stop talking to the press. i think guy laid it out very well. this is political season, and politics happens in a political season, and the best candidates generally win. i thought the most interesting analysis on election night was that from our own laura ingraham who i think points out that the political system as it's organized today on the republican side is not yielding the kind of victories that republicans want. i'm a democrat. i'm happy that my party's succeeding, but i'm also an american first. i think the system is healthier, the body politic is healthier when both parties are competitive and offering ideas. so to your point, howie, the

precision of your question, i think you always have to be out shouting your ideas, shouting your message and telling voters wherever you may be running how you're going to make their lives better is and make the country better. howard: right. >> and people decided in georgia it was raphael warnock that could do that best in the united states senate. howard: yeah. walker basically ignored all reporters and kept them at arm's length. guy, the media are playing this huge blame game among republicans who thought they had a strong shot at taking the senate, and the media are happy to shine the spotlight, i think, on gop folks who say it's mitch mcconnell's fault or donald trump's fault because he recruited these candidates who lost in georgia, arizona, nevada, pennsylvania and new hampshire. >> yeah. i mean, it's a storyline that many in the press are very eager to cover. it's also real, right? you have a lot of people in the republican party, the grassroots activists, voters saying what happened here, casting about for

reasons why. i think that if you look at a very interesting analysis by nate cohen in "the new york times", he looked at the numbers and found that the republicans most associated closely with donald trump, sort of the maga, trump-left folks, they on average performed -- underperformed, you should say, by 5 points, 5 percentage points across the country. that is a significant penalty, if you will. especially in close races. so i think the crux of the election was republican turnout was quite good, democrats did pretty well on turnout, not as well, but a sliver of republican voters and a lot of independents couldn't bring themselves to vote for certain kinds of republicans. he were eager and happy to vote for other republicans, more traditional, normal republican, but not another group. that's the key here. whether it's trump or mcconnell, you have to win independent swing voters. it's not rocket science. howard: not rocket science, indeed. harold, as you know having a 51st senate seat is very important. do you see a strange split in

the fourth estate right now? because usually we to this left-right thing where it's not just the liberal media, flex, going after donald trump -- for example, going after donald trump the, but some conservative commentators like national are review saying it's time to move on from the former president. >> i think when you have that kind of agreement and consensus in the press around any political effort, i think it causes all of us to pay closer attention. but you don't have to be the, i'll use the analogy you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what guy just said. those candidates who were more closely aligned with former president trump didn't perform well. so if you're a republican and you want your candidates to perform better, this is, again, not rocket science. you've got to figure out ways to distance yourself from the parts of mr. trump that people don't like. and until that happens, it doesn't appear that republicans are going to fare better in some of these senate races. there were people who thought a month back that, a little over a

month back that republicans would gain a 3-4 seat majority in the senate. i think it would be very hard to find someone other than the most ardent partisans and wanted to believe democrats couldn't lose regardless, who thought that democrats would actually gain a seat. again, i like it best when the parties are strong and vibrant and able to have serious debates, and right now on the republican side the debates aren't as serious between democrat and republican as they should be. howard: well, rocket science may be hard, you can ask elon musk about that, but not -- running for office, republican or democrat, when you haven't done it before is really hard, especially with the national scrutiny. so, guy, the knives quickly came out. from herschel walker's own camp, unnamed aides telling politico that he wasn't straight about his personal problems, that he shouldn't have taken five days off down stretch and that his wife played an outsized role and that she somehow thought he would win 50% of black vote in

georgia. what do you make of this kind of back stabbing? >> it's what happens when candidates lose, right? people are angry, people are frustrate. hay don't want to take the blame themselves, so you start getting whispers to reporters, and they all print what people are saying, and it's sort of this postmortem ugliness. i think there's probably some truth -- howard: if only they'd listened to me. only they had listened to me. >> exactly. he was one of those untested candidates. and to your point, howie, and the question you asked earlier of harold, if you are getting absolutely crushed on the airwaves and being outspent dramatically, you only compound the problem by not really engaging with the press because you're giving up sort of an opportunity to amplify your message that's already getting crowded out by the other party's spending. i think there were a number of issues at play for herschel walker include including himself, the candidate, and ultimately you're the name on the ballot. you have to go out and win or lose, and in this case he and a number of other republicans in

winnable races did not. howard: right. go ahead, harold. >> i want to give herschel walker some credit. i listened to his concession speech -- howard: yes, very classy. >> -- i thought he gave not only a classy speech, but it's what winners should be saying also, we should never give up on america. and i want to give -- i don't like it when staffers who are not, who are not the candidates try to hide behind something or deflect blame. howard: right. >> you lost. huddle together and figure out what you need to do better, do not blame the candidate. that should be a focus as well. howard: i agree. met me jump in on this last question which is the press is just going wild over kyrsten sinema leaving the democratic party, and she spoke to cnn and politico. but since she will caucus, saying this to guy, with the democrats just like senator angus king, is it really that big a deal? >> probably not a huge deal in terms of governance over the next two years. perhaps a bigger deal in the

2024 election cycle. she's trying to avoid a democratic primary -- howard: yes. >> she'll probably run as an independent. and if you have a splintered field with a true blue democrat, then kyrsten sinema and if the republicans nominate someone palatable to the people of arizona, i think that's a golden opportunity for republicans to right the ship in arizona because the dynamics at least in these early stages look tricky for the democrats given what sinema's done. howard: right. i think symbolically it's important, it's about sinema's re-election effort, but at the same time, everyone's acting like it suddenly jams up the senate, and just not that true with her decision to caucus with the democrats. up next, the twitter the files reveal how conservatives were suppressed and censored and how the company changed its own rules to ban donald trump. of. ♪ ♪

psoriasis really messes with you. try. hope. fail. no one should suffer like that. i started cosentyx®. five years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infection, some serious and a lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reaction may occur. best move i've ever made. ask your dermatologist about cosentyx®. we all have a purpose in life - a “why.” no matter your purpose, at pnc private bank we will work with you every step of the way to help you achieve it. so let us focus on the how. just tell us - what's your why? >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it.

>> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

howard: fox news alert, we now know thanks to elon musk hat previous twitter bosses absolutely targeted and censored conservatives and suppressed their content including donald trump even before the election. the latest document release shows they publicly lied about it. one conservative put on a search blacklist, fox news host dan bongino. >> they did this on purpose, twitter and big tech the, to steal away your country. and you know what? listen to me, folks, they did it. and elon musk is trying to help you get it back. howard: joining us now from connecticut, charlie gasparino, senior correspondent for fox business network. and, charlie, this was so sweeping and insidious that you couldn't search for dan bongino's name, you couldn't find him. as i say is, twitter executives lied about all of this in public, even before congress. >> yeah. jack dorsey said e there was no

shadow banning. who knows how you specifically define shadow banning, you know? we're old enough to remember what's the definition of is. [laughter] there was a president that questioned that. i find it fascinating the mainstream media reaction to this. and this was so clear cut, this was censorship pure and simple based on political bias. dan bongino is not the daily stormer as much as the left would like to say he is. the libs of tiktok is not some right-wing, qanon outfit. these are people that are conservative, and tiktok the, that's a parody site just mocking progressive excess. howard: right. >> and it's just so fascinating how the media's reacted to this. when you and i were making our bones back in the day, you know, it was all about let the fur fly. let's have a debate. let's not censor everything, the first amendment -- howard: yeah. that's really changed. >> now if you see reporters today, they believe in censorship. just read the stuff -- howard: all right, let me jump

in because i have a lot of stuff to get through. just last night we learned that the day after the capitol riot safety director j -- yoel roth said ceo jack dorsey had approved a five strikes and you're out plan. and, therefore, donald trump only had one strike against him because of january 6th and needed four more for a permanent ban. the very next day, boom, they threw that out, they changed the policy, hay permanently banned donald trump and dropped the exception for world leaders. and roth agreed that a ban was the thing everyone wants. your thoughts. >> yeah. i mean, it's so crazy that the ayatollahs and, you know, despots around the world have twitter the accounts where they can spout just about anything, any sort of racist stuff, you know? i don't know, but i'm pretty sure louis farrakhan probably has a twitter account, and donald trump doesn't. now, you know, listen, i'm not -- listen, twitter's a private company, they do have

to, you know, they have to have some respondent for people inciting violence -- responsibility. but if you look at exactly what donald trump said on twitter, it did not exactly incite violence. he actually said go peacefully. i mean, i remember the words. and i'm not condoning what he did during that day, but if you're going to be really specific, you know, what he's done was no worse than what the ayatollahs have done on that platform, but they banned him. howard: let's get to january 6th, because came from journalist matt taibbi. starting a week before the election roth and twitter sup. pressed the reach of trump's tweets. in other words, reached far, far fewer people. and on january 6th one executive, one top executive said after trump told the protesters go home, we love you, it's gut-wrenching. he's a horrible human being. this is in the files. so do you agree with elon musk who says twitter had become a democratic party activist machine? >> well, what do you think? i mean, yeah.

i mean, you know, i just find it fascinating that jack dorsey went before congress and said there was no shadow banning. howard: yeah. >> i think they need to bring him back and say, okay, urn oath, what did you mean -- howard: i think somebody might tie -- try to do that. the terms were so orwellian, visibility filtering and deamplify -- disamplification. raising questions about whether the whole russian disinformation line was being pushed about the hunter biden laptop. excuse me. but it was trump's fbi, trump's director of national intelligence. >> yeah. i mean, listen, there's a lot of gray area here. i mean, clearly, the fbi under trump was worried about russian disinformation. i think it becomes, if you're going to run the global town square which essentially twitter has become and that's what they thought they were, you've got to, like, think a little bit independently. you've got to say, okay, why would the government want us to

do this, what motives does the government have. i think there needs to be something a little more skeptical when government is telling you this. by the way, i'm just going to throw this out there and maybe i'll be very unpopular for saying this, why do i care if the hunter biden laptop story is russian disinformation if it's the all true? howard: yeah, because -- >> at some point, if it's true, i want to know that whether it's the russians publishing it or "the new york post" getting it through reporting, which is what happened. howard: yeah. twitter has admitted a mistake on that. all of this would have come out last weekend. this is like a netflix movie. searches were blocked by jim baker, former fbi general counsel who was involved in the early days of the russiagate probe. he was quietly hired by twitter. elon musk discovers this and sends him backing. bottom line, is this firestorm the helping elon musk rescue twitter, or is it just a lot of smoke? >> i think it helps drive traffic, to be honest with you. howard: yes. >> and i think if there's any

way that twitter's going to make money, i believe -- because it's obvious that the prior group that ran it as a public company weren't, their first order of business us -- was not to make money which is a securities crime in and of itself. i think if it's going to make money, it's got to be open source, it's got to be open to everybody. and within limits, obviously, but the limits should not be, oh, you're a conservative, oh, you know, you mock progressive overreach -- howard: yeah, i know. >> it's very scary. howard: as i say, misinformation was whatever they wanted it to be even though we now look at it and it was perfectly fair commentary. charlie, always good to see you. we will follow the twitter files. e when we come back, why anchors and correspondents are saying that the every american guesat tt pledged never to suppr donald trump. were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber...

fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

dude, what're you doing? i'm protecting my car. that's too much work. weathertech is so much easier... laser-measured floorliners up here, seat protector and cargoliner back there... nice! out here, side window deflectors... and mud flaps... and the bumpstep, to keep the bumper dent-free. cool! it's the best protection for your vehicle, new or pre-owned. great. but where do i---? order. weathertech.com. sfx: bubblewrap bubble popped sound. howard: during the uproar over donald trump saying that massive fraud in 2020, quote, allows for

the termination of all rules, regulations and articles even those found in the constitution, the former president decided to blame the media. the fake news is actually trying to convince the american people that i said i wanted to terminate the constitution. this is simply more disinformation and lies just like russia is, russia, russia and all of their other hoaxes and scams. but trump did not backtrack from his earlier demand that he should be either reinstated or get a do-over election. again, quoting, steps must be taken immediately to right the wrong. only fools would disagree with that and accept stole the. en elections. maga. anchors and reporters kept pressing lawmakers to denounce trump's comments and demand that they vow to never support him. >> can can you say categorically that you would not support him if he were the republican nominee? >> what i'm saying is it would be with pretty hard to be sworn in to the presidency if you're not willing to uphold the

constitution. >> can you support a candidate in 2024 who's for suspending the constitution? >> again, it's early, i think there's going to be a lot of people in the primary. i would support whoever the republican nominee is. >> but that's an extraordinary statement. you can't come out against someone who's for suspending the constitution? howard: guy benson, what do you make of the way in which these republican guests were pressed not just to criticize the comments, which a lot of hem did, but say raise your right hand and promise never, ever to support him again? >> right. i think that's really more of a question for voters. i can understand why politicians were asked those questions by members of the media who are ever eager to try to drive wedges within the republican coalition and to get republican lawmakers to respond to the latest thing that a trump has said or put out on social media. that's like a pastime at this point, no doubt about that. and i'm sure republicans, many of them, are sick of those types of questions. in fairness to the press though on this, howie, we have one

declared presidential candidate in 2024, and it's donald trump. he's the only one in either party who has officially thrown his hat into the ring -- howard: right. >> -- so here's a former president running for the office again dining with bigots at mar-a-lago and saying things like he did about the constitution, that's newsworthy, and it's especially amplified because he's the guy with all the oxygen right now looking ahead to 2024. and you can't help but notice those things and ask questions about them. howard: of course it's newsworthy but, harold ford, are the media laying a trap for republicans, because there's a very good chance donald trump would be the nominee, and they don't want to be on video, it seems to me, saying they can't support their party's standard bearer. >> we were told that we should have our answers pithy. i agree with guy benson 100%. howard: you can elaborate. >> i think guy's exactly right. i thought mitch mcconnell put the bow on it saying it's hard to imagine someone can take the oath of office if they're

president and have said at some point that they would undo the constitution for a small period of time to advance themselves or their own sell interest -- self-interests. i believe that the body politic is strengthened when both parties are strong, and if you're dining with bigots, if you can't say you will uphold and defend the constitution, i think you're unfit to be president. but voters have a right to weigh in as they always do. i hope for the sake of the country that republicans don't nominate donald trump. howard: well, that'll be decided in the primaries. guy, i want to play some comments by larry kudlow, now, of course, a fox business host. >> i don't understand what our former boss is doing. i love the guy, but i do not understand kanye west, hanging out with white nationalists, hanging out with anti-semitic people, talking about ending the constitution or postponing the constitution. i don't get it. i don't know why he's saying it. howard: guy, what's your

reaction as a conservative to hearing that from larry kudlow who i don't think has ever uttered a negative word about donald trump until now? >> i mean, he loves trump, they worked together to great effect on the economy, and he's loyal in a lot of ways. but there are certain things that the are beyond the pale where you have a lot of trump loyalists who have come out and questioned and criticized what he's done in these circumstances. and the reporting from maggie haber haberman at the times and others is that trump's response privately has been volcanic, raging against insufficient loyalty and all that sort of thing which suggests that if republicans go down this path again with donald trump the, it will just be endlessly this kind of thing, constant drama and back biting and back stabbing and baggage. and i think that there are quite a few republicans out there, republican voters, even trump voters twice over who might be ready for something different, but we're a long ways away from any of that actually happening. it's still not even christmas of 2022. howard: oh, that's right.

[laughter] harold, what do you make of trump saying that fake news is creating the whole controversy when journalists are not saying abolish the constitution the, just quoting his own words about suspending it in some respects? >> i can say two things. one, his words -- he said these things, so we're all able to see them. he met with people who have proclaimed the worst things about certain people in our country and, in fact, have said the worst things about why our country is great. we allow any and everyone to be able to advance. howard: right. >> so he says them, and hen he -- then he tries to walk away from it. i get criticized at times for critiquing my own party. a salute to the kudlows and others for having, for doing the right thing and saying this is just wrong. they didn't say he's necessarily a terrible person, but they don't understand why he's doing the things that he's doing. and i think that the that's the kind of thing people have to consider as they think about the future of the republican party in the hands of donald trump.

it doesn't matter who they may want to turn it over to. he said those things -- howard: but he also has a very stronghold on the maga bays. harold ford, guy benson, thank you so much. next, martha mccall column on -- maccallum on the brittney griner prisoner swap. ♪ ♪ get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify.

i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to getrefunds.com to get started. powered by innovation refunds. you spend the holidays making everyone else smile, but what about your smile? it needs care too, and when it does, aspen dental is here for you. this season, and every season, we offer the custom dental treatments you need, all under one roof, right nearby. so, we can bring more life to your smile, and more smile to your life, affordably. new patients without insurance can get a free complete exam and x-rays, and 20% off treatment plans.

howard: when president biden announced that wnba star brittney griner had been freed from a russian prison camp in exchange for notorious russian arms dealer viktor bout, a media debate instantaneously rutted. >> -- versus a guy, the merchant of death, who smuggled hundreds of thousands of arms. it doesn't seem like a fair deal, does it? >> it's not even close. it's not a fair deal at all. >> it is a high price to pay. and, unfortunately, when you're negotiating with vladimir putin,

often you have to pay a high price. howard: i spoke about this and other hot topics with martha maccallum, anchor of "the the story" daily at 3 eastern, here in washington. welcome. >> hi, howie. great to be here. howard: the whole country is happy and relieved that brittney griner is back in america, but it took about 5 seconds for debate to erupt over whether this was a good prisoner swap for the russian arms dealer viktor bout, known as the merchant of death. you discovered -- covered this. >> this is exactly right. i mean, everybody -- it frustrates us so much when we see an american citizen taken around, you know, in a russian prison, we feel loss of control, how could this be happening to an american, wrongly accused or accused of something that is such a minor offense that they should not be spending 9 years in a russian work prison. the problem comes when you look at who we're trading for. howard: yes. >> and i think as americans you want to just say, no, we don't want to give anything, actually.

we want our person back because she did something that is very minor and has been overcharged. you want the rightness to be what prevails -- howard: but it's vladimir putin. >> exactly. we see this person, viktor bout, who has basically fueled civil wars with arms on both sides of the battle and is responsible for the deaths of who knows how many thousands of people around the world. howard: those who say it's a lopsided deal with right -- are right. on the other hand, does the biden administration leave brittney griner to rot for years on a matter of principle? it's not an easy question. >> no, it's not at all. and it reminds me of bowe bergdahl who was traded for five members of the taliban, and you have to go forward, scroll forward a bit. four of them are now in leadership poxes in the taliban -- positions in the taliban. howard: so president biden, as you know, drew a fair amount of media criticism when he was in arizona and was asked about why he wasn't going to the border. here's the question the from peter doocy. >> reporter: mr. president,

why, why go to the border state and not visit the border? >> there's more important things going on -- [inaudible] howard: so the flip side, of course, is that conservatives want the president to go to the border so they can spend a couple of news cycles attacking his administering's claims hat border is secure which, of course, it is anything but. >> i always look for a president in this situation to do the unexpected, you know? to go to the border -- howard: to call an audible. >> -- and to talk to some of the members of the border patrol there. i think it would go such a long way in mending some of these fences. but there's a lot of bad blood that could be repaired. also you've got families of who have lost their loved ones to fentanyl deaths who say, wait a minute, this is not a priority for you? these drugs are pouring across the border, and it's a very, very tough situation. i really think the president is in a good position right now. he's had some wins. he could say, you know what? i'm going to meet them halfway, i'm going to go to the border, we're going to talk about in

the. howard: we'll see if he takess your advice. now, in the wake of the georgia runoff, maga candidates who lost key battleground races, there's an often deny unusually fierce debate within the key movement, some blaming trump, mitch mcconnell, others. is it more challenging to cover that because it's not the usual left-right splitsome it's a pretty intense fight within the gop. >> it's interesting just to take a look at georgia, actually, in answer to that question where you have a lot of republicans who won in state legislature positions, the governor won -- howard: brian kemp, yeah. >> in that example you say maybe the candidate was the problem. and, yes, we know the former president really pushed him to run. his ledger is not good on these high profile races. what people care about are what matters -- howard: control of the senate, that's what this was all about. >> i think for all of the republicans who talked up this

red wave and people like rick scott who thought all of my candidates would win, i think you want to underpromise and overdeliver. they gave the opposite, and that leaves people with a sick feeling in their stomach if that's your party and you wanted them to win. i think for president trump it's been a difficult cycle, there's no doubt about it. howard: a lot of people in our business talked up the red wave too, and i was surprised how the midterms turned out. if you're in this business, you get a plot of you're too anti-trump or too pro-trump. in just the past three weeks, donald trump has had the kanye uproar, the furor over the constitution comments, the midterm fallout as well as the fraud conviction of the trump organization. i happened to be on the air with you when that verdict came down. so even if you just read the bare bones, minimal of those stories, you'd still get, oh, you know, you're obsessed with trump, or it's trump derangement syndrome, but how do you not cover these stories against the former president? >> a, he's a former president,

b, he's a declared candidate and, c, it's been a pretty bad couple of weeks. howard: yeah. there's just no way of getting around that. we didn't invent it. >> yes. of course you have to cover the story, 100%. howard: nevertheless, a lot of people in the country feel very strongly for trump are, against trump on the liberal side as well. i feel like they take it out on us as a messenger. we report good news -- >> i can't think of anybody that's more fair in the coverage than we are. we don't bash, you know, we don't bash and we don't applaud. if you have to be -- you have to be honest in the coverage of this. and for the reasons that i said, we are covering the good and the bad of what his situation is as a potential political, as a potential presidential candidate. and for anybody that we're covering, there's going to be good days and bad days for them, and you have to be straightforward about covering them. you know, you're going to get people who think you have a horse in the race -- howard: yeah. >> -- who think you're against

their horse or for their hours, and we're going to get that all the time. i feel like if i get it on both sides, i'm doing the right thing. howard: i think that's a pretty good measurement. >> you have to be straightforward about it. making it sound like something isn't a problem when it's a problem or when you say, you know what? these are wins. these are big policy wins. we talked about those for president trump all the time as well. so there's a ledger -- [laughter] there is a ledger for all of us, right, and for all of the wins and losses in life, and you have to be honest ant them. howard: same thing for joe biden, same for ron ron desantis if he gets in. >> absolutely. howard: that's part of our job. great to see you in washington. >> you too, howie. howard: after the break, how joe biden's low-key presidency keeps shifting the harsh media spotlight back to donald trump. ♪ ♪

the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day... a "let's dig in" day... mm. ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day... a "perfectly delicious" day... - mm. [ chuckles ] - ...a "love my new teeth" day. because your clearchoice day is the day everything is back on the menu. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. living with plaque psoriasis? otezla can help you achieve clearer skin. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla can cause serious allergic reactions. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.

otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today.

howard: just when the media attacks on donald trump on controversies from kanye to the constitution seem to have peaked came this breaking news: >> the jury just returned a verdict, guilty on all counts against both trump corporation's entities -- howard: joining us now in nashville, morgan ortegus, a state department official in the trump administration and maria lieson. mara liasson.

>> i think, howie, it depends on which content you're asking that from. so the context that i think matters most right now is how important is this to republican primary voters. i don't see it registering on the radar in any polling. i do see things like the outcome of the midterm elections where you were just talking about in the last segment there was supposed to be a red wave and there the wasn't. i do see more of those things registering with voters, but i think giving russia, russia, russia and the various investigations from president trump over six years, i don't see this being something that republican primary voters care about. i will say it's interesting to see in the media environment, you talk about media on show, over the last six months or so we've been seeing major cuts and layoffs at cnn and washington post, even nbc. big media outlets suffer when they don't have trump outrage to sell to their -- howard: maybe ooh -- maybe that's, that's why hay like stirring it up.

howard: mara, the trump former ceo pleaded guilty but didn't implicate trump. didn't pay taxes, and the company faces a $1.6 million fine. >> tiny. howard: it's all tiny, yeah. so trump calls this a witch hunt. >> well, i i think that trump would call any prosecution of him or his businesses a witch hunt. i think we can fairly assume that. but, look, he's the former president, he's a current presidential candidate, it's news when his company and, as you said, he built his political career on his company and on some people would say the myth or idea that his company was super successful and he was the best businessman ever in american history. so it is news, but i agree with morgan, politically not that important. howard: yeah. and prosecutors didn't charge trump. now, let's turn back to the brittney griner prisoner swap for armed deal -- arms dealer viktor bout which has been criticized by commentators who say she's anti-american because

she joined with other athletes in those national anthem protests a couple of years ago, morgan, but does that mean she should serve years in a russian prison camp? >> no. listen, i said this the minute i heard the news was breaking, that it is a great deal -- it's a great thing every time we can get an american home. and, listen, we were able to get the most hostages and lawfully -- excuse me, unlawfully detained people out of prison in the trump presidency than any modern presidency. it was over 55. robert o'brien, national security adviser, dealt with hostage issues before at the state department. i worked with him, we got a lot of americans out. and not every american that we got out in the trump administration had a glowing resumé or stellar background. we get americans out, we don't leave them home. however, and i don't think this is a political comment, this comes from my background at the state department for a long time, i do think the way the biden team negotiated this deal does put americans at risk.

and i don't say this lightly. if you're an american who does work, who goes to russia or china, you should really be thinking twice about it. howard: yeah. let me get mara back in. >> it's not that we traded her, we just didn't get everyone out. howard: some pundits saying she wasn't worth the swap and some also saying that biden left ex-marine paul whelan behind, it was never an option because he's been held on bogus spy charges. there's no way to get him back at this time. >> right. surprise, surprise, everything is partisan and people are criticizing the brittney griner swap. the fact is we got her home, that's great. now, as morgan said, taking hostages is what china and russia do. they want to trade them, and i agree that anybody who a's going there has to be super careful now. the biden move was controversial not just among the right. there are many prosecutors who serve democratic administrations who think that this was a bad deal because it lets go a guy who sold arms to terrorists and

kill americans. howard: right. >> but these hostage negotiations are always fraught because they always come at a price. howard: it's a legitimate subject for public debate, i'm just a little surprised at the attacks on brittney griner. finally, morgan, joe biden, pretty much a low-key president. he doesn't send out any incendiary tweets, doesn't make news on weekends. does that help keep the negative media spotlight on donald trump and his various investigations going back to your point about how these organizations want to get their ratings up? >> that probably works for now. i think that that will be something new and challenging for him in the new congress, and that's because -- have a republican-led house which will be oversight and we'll be able to have are, hopefully, subpoena power and the power to investigate. and why does that matter? because there are things that i don't think are political but that the are legitimate national security issues that we should be concerned about.

why was hunter biden selling american military companies to the chinese communist party, to their entities while his father was vice president? that's not political. howard: okay. let me just get mara in. obviously, joe biden isn't meeting with anti-semites, but he doesn't draw media scrutiny. >> zero. donald trump is way high up, biden is at the very bottom. howard: but is that fair who? is it fair? the he's boring. and don't forget donald trump's metric for success was being the number one news story 24/7. howard: right. >> that's what he wanted. does it help donald trump when joe biden is boring and not in the news? sure. howard: yeah. still to come, abc yanks two gma co-anchors off the air after a tabloid report on a romance, but are they being treated fairly?at that's eio next. ♪

what should it look like, and what can we be as a community of women? it's still okay to hope. ♪ ♪ my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. ♪ from holiday hills, illinois to rudolph, wisconsin. from santa claus, indiana to snowflake, arizona. from garland, texas to north pole, new york and everywhere in between. we're holiday ready with fast and reliable delivery, serving every address in america. the united states postal service. if you have diabetes, then getting on the dexcom g6 is the single most important thing you can do.

and it's covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking, my a1c was still stuck. (female announcer) dexcom g6 sends your glucose numbers to your phone or receiver without fingersticks, so you can make better decisions in the moment. (earl) my a1c has never been lower. (female announcer) dexcom g6 is the #1 recommended cgm system. call now to get started. (bright music)

howard: the melodrama surrounding two abc news anchors has become impossible to ignore now that the network has yanked them off the air. >> looking forward today weekend. >> me? >> yeah. >> of course. >> of course we are. howard: t.j. holmes and amy rohrbach found themselves in the middle of a feeding frenzy thanks to the daily mail. i don't understand why the media stalk thed couple. abc says they violated no company pail and yet with the story all over the new york papers, we don't know how long they will be benched from gma. kim godwin told the staff the couple had had become a

distraction. now, they did make one serious blunder which is not telling the network. they say they were waiting for their divorces to become final. sorry, you don't blindside your bosses. and it didn't help that holmes had a previous 3-year affair with another staffer, but this is not like what happened at cnn where the couple lost their jobs. zucker was her boss and could boost her salary. t.j. and amy were co-equals. is it really fair to call this this a bigtime scandal? parent company disney disagrees, things could get messy. and time magazine's choice for person of the year, the only choice, the obvious choice is volodymyr zelenskyy who has inspired the world and with the help of his courageous countrymen beat back a brutal and unprovoked russian invasion. that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." i'm howard kurtz. you can subscribe to my podcast, mediabuzz meter, we're on track

for 4 million downloads this year, and apple itunesing is a good place to do it. you can actually get it at apple music. a lot to covered today which is why i talked so fast. we're back here next sunday at 11 eastern. we will see you then with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ ♪ no matter your purpose, at pnc private bank we will work with you every step of the way to help you achieve it. so let us focus on the how. just tell us - what's your why? .. it looks like - looks like you paid too much for your glasses. ... who? anyone who isn't shopping at america's best - where two pairs and a free exam start at just $79.95. book an exam today. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really?

>> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ vehicles come in all different sizes. yet ordinary windshield phone holders are one size fits all. does that make sense? no. but this does. the adjustable windshieldfone from weathertech. it extends and retracts for a perfect fit in any vehicle. plus, a quick release tab for easy one handed in and out. and for kids, use it in the back seat too. comes with short, medium and telescopic arms, to fit any vehicle.

order the american made windshieldfone at weathertech.com. even makes a nice holiday gift. all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.

>> awaiting the splashdown this our auch nasa's unmanned capital, artemis one after it wrapped up its historic voyage and journey around the moon but we will tell you about american justice. no terrorist will go unpunished. the stunning arrest from a shocking attack against america more than 3 decades ago. welcome to fox news live