: four, and mccarthy that he mag at direction but no back into carthy >> harris: emily let about losingumb on votes second. the andause something he thought cs forave e now because peopl not gathg around kev mc how strong was thainal n mccarthy vote?how many of theu for kevin mccawell if that ihat is? >> e: i think that's the membermbers ele askingow as well as the am people and electing catherine o sent a memo the g.o.p. md to adjourn keep in mind as weearlier

made comments i am perfect pang but looking emba on an interna stage. together.mp weighed in awell sat go and get it done.a lot of peot mecalling force immunityand fore here s can progress >> emily: is certaemng for the p >> harris: one want you, jason, just terms of wy is talking, legislationn ge put on hold asold ast ? we he real are enemies look at t >> jason: can continueueueueueub much moroblematic. ere are no technical mem of congress in of our prodmach representativesto do at

>> harris: we are dabbling in right now. let's take a watch and listen. >> >> the prayer will be offered by chaplain cuban. kibben. would you pray with me? holy god and these days of uncertainty and change we turn to you who are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. regardless of the circumstance, lord, you are not just present but provisioning supplying us all that we need. >> harris: and while the c house reconvenes taking a moment for prayer which is very necessary especially now with so much chaos. i want to bring in bret baier. brett, when you watch this i can't make a joke about it i

have a book about faith. in this situation it's more than embarrassing, it's broken. >> bret: it is broken. it does not seem to be resolving anytime soon. a lot of talk about adjournment, but if they bring forward that effort to adjourn or gather their forces and count the votes behind the scenes, they may not have the votes for it. democrats would and can block it with a few votes and no votes against mccarthy, a few of them like representative ralph norman have already said we need to vote. we are not going to vote to adjourn. it is sticky either way. you don't want to be embarrassed by bringing up a motion to adjourn and not have the votes for that either. the bottom line is kevin out.rthy is going to stick it he will contino fight it he ds have 203 votes. e dimini but so r there is notd rnative. to jason's point, yes, it does get problematic after a while.

after the opening in the swearing's end of elect and representatives, then they had a break until january 23rd. so it could take a while. it's not going to interrupt the legislating. >> harris: that was my big question. >> bret: it could interrupt the setting up of the committees that happens usually during that time. after they are sworn in. >> jason: and brett, i want to add onto that we november 9th becausesmg g be later theygathered togetc going to have the steering committee get together and figure out who will be chairman. from then what committee assignments, then go higher the staff, you don't know what committee you are on so you can hire staff. the delay is actually much longer, but you are right. in terms of actually passing legislation, probably the end of january even in the best-case scenario. >> harris: let's talk about nancy pelosi for a second. we are six votes shy if they can

get the six votes. can you imagine a situation where hakeem jeffries gets the six votes from republicans he needs and becomes the deck democratic house speaker over majority of a republican house? >> jason: i can't imagine a scenario that the republicans would go toward democrats. i think that that would be, remember all of these people in that room right there are up for reelection in two years. it will be tough to go back to her republican district and say i voted for hakeem jeffries to be speaker of the house. i also think there is a possibility because of all of the logistics and how much everyone is running around with her head cut off that someone could vote present thinking they are doing the right thing, and if there are too many votes present the numbers shrink. >> harris: how many could he have? >> jason: 19 or 20, no votes for kevin mccarthy, right? if 15 of those vote present thinking they were going to be helping kevin mccarthy,

hakeem jeffries could end up with enough votes if all the democrats show up. >> harris: that's interesting. >> jason: listen, they have to be careful. it's on a knife's edge here. there's a lot of chaos and a lot of under the tent it's really hitting each other. it's not done yet. this will last for a little >> emily: and harris matt gaetz ay said he esy doesn' if i effries becomes speaker anthe ques from "the wet journal" l board is how does that ople of florida you are serv l of the use questions you important toee the reactio current members and to this anhow itre reacting es constituents ultimate >> harris: kenne >> kennedy: i wa to hear on. u know a lot of these people beeyave been in ress a while. what does it take for

ght now has voted he has said he doe want to be speaker. what happens if that dynamic shifts? >> jason: for the 20 -- mccarthy? yes. that's kevin mccarthy. go ahead, jason. he is arriving. >> jason: the problem for the 20 is they supported and endorsed jim jordan, jim says he doesn't want to run, they endorse largely donald trump, donald trump says vote for kevin mccarthy. that puts them in a predicament. the underlying problem here is those 20 fundamentally at their core i mean to the heart of the heart do not trust kevin mccarthy. i say what those 20 need to do is if they want to be obstructing what is moving forward then tell us who you are actually for? >> kennedy: what jim jordan stuff stood up and said i had

and i to think about it i can do a much better job i'm a fighter i will fight for the party. i will fight to reduce the size of government here. >> jason: but the 200 would say i don't want to do that. this system is broken perry we know more about how you elect to miss america than we do the next speaker of the house. this has been playing out since november 9th. [laughter] ninth. [laughter] >> kennedy: you are absolutely right. >> harris: i have a lot of interest in this. so we saw kevin mccarthy walk in. and jackie, i saw your eyes get big. because this is the moment, right? he will find out if he lost more votes while people were eating free pizza. >> jackie: it's really interesting to watch this play out. i'm wondering if an adjournment wouldn't be a good idea for everyone to take a deep breath and continue to have conversations instead of having it play out on this public stage. what i tend to do being from a business background is look at with the stock market is doing. markets are a big today. down slightly a little yesterday, and what i find interesting today is the markets like gridlock, right?

they like nothing happening on washington. so even if there is chaos on the floor of the house, that is what they are focused on. we having a great 2023 with respect to the economy to the wall street perspective, no more spending is what they want to see at this point. you won't see spending as long as you see this. >> harris: and with no one sworn in. >> kennedy: maybe that's true but that's only way republican get real change here we talked about yesterday but there's so much status quo with democrats, they think they are, pushing sally by chanting hakeem, hakeem but their party isn't going to change. there is no introspection. there is no process that forces some of these people to go yes, we have been moving in the wrong direction and may be with a couple of days of chicken they will do something meaningful which voters have not been able to accomplish. >> harris: i want to bring bret baier back in, once i

second, emily. bret bring us back with the politics we have interviewed him and he said things that make you think he is pretty radical calling a former president the grand wizard of the kkk. he has had some moments periods but what is politics? >> bret: well, he portrays himself as centrist but you are right he has some left views that are very public including questioning the election of donald trump. but he says he is going to try to work across the aisle. there is no indication that has really happened. however, hakeem jeffries right now would like for this continue on. he would like this to keep going because every day this happens they are raising money for democrats. they are saying we are all united, republicans are divided. they are living off of what they consider a very successful midterm, even though they lost seats. they did better than was predicted. then was productive going in.

hakeem jeffries is positioning himself to be speaker, maybe not this time but in another house. i want to answer jackie one quick thing. if you want, the markets want stagnation or blockage, gridlock. they are likely going to have. it could be really nice market time because if you look at how this is all being handled, imagine governing with that slim majority. and you have all these folks say we are not like that and we are moving forward. >> jackie: it's really interesting because we think we are setting up to have a rough year economically and again i separate the markets from the underlying fundamentals of the economy, bret. but i think you know i think wall street is looking at this and finally saying it has gotten what it wanted here because we have seen trillions of dollars in spending continue to pass. spending some may argue we haven't necessarily needed.

this was a change wall street is looking for. wall street isn't saying we want answers to questions of the origins of covid or the withdrawal of afghanistan or hunter biden's laptop or all of those investigations the american people care about. they are looking at policy at this point. i find it very interesting the way the big money moves. >> emily: bret, diwali, tell mike kennedy's question, this is emily, is this right strategy however on the part, will this t their future careers? what blight will this have if any is the longer this goes and the more their goals are not achieved is this hurting them ultimately in the long run? >> bret: two things, one is if kevin mccarthy eventually succeeds they are hurting their careers. what committee assignments they get or don't get.

also if this drags out and becomes a stain on republicans, many are saying is already there but i think you have some time to iron this out months from now people will not say we spent two days figuring out a speaker. they may go back to the districts and say hey, we want the border. we want to stop fentanyl, we want to stop crime, will want to do with inflation. we don't want to play these games in washington. that is a tougher thing to say. you can say you don't like kevin mccarthy. you don't trust kevin mccarthy. but unless you have an alternative that can get all the votes, you have nothing. >> harris: kennedy do you want to? >> kennedy: no. i think bret is absolutely right. but i think there is more going on here than just going along with the status quo which is what kevin mccarthy represents to a lot of these congress members. he is someone who said he earned the speakership, they don't feel the same way.

how do you bridge the chasm within the republican party? nancy pelosi, you know, love her or hate her she was actually able to wrangle her caucus. will kevin mccarthy be able to do the same thing? with the same kind of schism? >> bret: former president trump is hardly an established with figure and when he comes out and endorses mccarthy and says we need to move this forward and is getting nominated once again putting his name back and that is what's happening with congressman gallagher on the floor. so former president trump putting out that statement essentially saying you need to get this done. if you don't like him, afterwards you now have negotiated away -- >> harris: bret i will jump in one second, excuse me. obviously with the congressman elect, gallagher, nominating kevin mccarthy now he'll make his pitch. let's watch and listen. >> we are to serve this country in congress. how lucky we all are, democrats and republicans, to be citizens

of the greatest country in the history of the world. [cheers and applause] he is definitely out of order, madame clerk. i say that because i know last night people are frustrated they want to go to parties and take pictures with their families. honestly we find ourselves here in the chamber for the second day and we know we've got work to do, but in some ways there is no place i would rather be with the possible exception of lambeau field on sunday, no place i would rather be. but maybe with the excitement some of you hadn't had an opportunity to check what is happening online.

let me fill you in or what's happening on twitter with the press and what they are writing about. in some ways, they are salivating. there are lead lines about the chaos this and that, yesterday our colleagues on the other side of the aisle were tweeting bags of popcorn they had out, they love it. the schadenfreude is palpable. but i think, my friends come on the democratic side misunderstand what is happening here. sure, it looks messy. but democracy is messy! democracy is messy! by design. by design. and that is a feature not a bug of our system. we ere it all out in the open for the american people to see because i think at the end of the day the president is not in charge. the supreme court is not in charge. the speaker of the house is not even in charge. the american people are in

charge. [cheers and applause] i'm proud to be part of a party that welcomes debate and invites different views that isn't afraid of that. now listen to some my colleagues yesterday, mr. roy from texas my good friend, he knows i respect his views. i have been his partner and anti-crusades, per regular crusades, i know his intentions are pure, i know a lot of people are frustrated with the way congress works, but and chip, you know i believe that in my bones. nobody has done more to lay out a plan for how we restore the basic functioning of this institution then kevin mccarthy. nobody. [applause]

nobody has done that. now you may not have gotten everything you wanted. there are things i want that i know are just not possible to get done in this congress. mr. mccarthy has gone above and beyond in terms of listening to people with concerns and laying out a plan for how we restore the basic functioning of the house of representatives. furthermore, i believe no one has done more to bring us into the majority then kevin mccarthy. [applause] listen, i wish we had a bigger majority, right? i wish we could do everything over the next two years but the american people gave us an opportunity. they gave us republicans, an opportunity to inject some basic common sense into the federal government. to pull the emergency brake on a lot of the crazy we have seen in

the last few years. they are asking us to do a job, and nobody has laid out a plan, proactive policy agenda, for the direction we want to take this country in more detail then kevin mccarthy. you all had an opportunity. to provide input. and the irony of this current moment and this debate we are having is on the big stuff we all agree, right? we want to secure the border. we don't want the executive branch to do everything through a pen and a phone. we want to work with our democratic colleagues when it comes to standing up to our enemies abroad. right? there are basic things we know we need to do. it is time to get to work. [applause] so, you may tweet more popcorn and moji's i get it. you may write your headlines, but what i see right now is

energy. a tremendous amount of energy in this republican caucus who want to do the work of the people. mr. mccarthy is not asking you to endorse business as usual in the house. he has laid out a plan to renew the house of representatives and once again make it an institution that we can credibly look ourselves in the mirror and say "we are working in the people's house" for that many other reasons, i nominate kevin mccarthy for speaker of the house. [cheers and applause] >> what purpose does a gentleman from california rise? >> madame clerk iritis to nominate hakeem jeffries as speaker of this house.

>> nar>> the gentleman is recog. >> madame clerk make no mistake there is no frustration on our side. we are focused on serving the american people. in order to do that, we have to unite behind a speaker. democrats are united behind a speaker who prioritizes putting better paying jobs in industries of the future. growing up in a working-class family he knows a good paying job and a good education are key to economic mobility. he knows that to tackle the afford ability crisis in this country we need to make sure that everybody gets paid enough to live and work in any zip code. and he knows about creating these jobs we can once again make it in america.

madame clerk, as chair of the democratic caucus i am directed by that boat of the caucus to present for election to the 118 congress the honorable hakeem jeffries were presented f elect for the state of new york for the office of speaker. [cheers and applause] [chanting "hakim"] >> for what purpose does the government from texas rise? >> i seek to place nomination for speaker. >> joma and is recognized. >> yesterday my stomach first vote for speaker of the house

was byron donalds perry today i am rising to nominate byron donalds for speaker of the house of representatives. [cheers and applause] byron is a dear friend. a solid conservative. but most importantly, a family man who loves dearly his wife, erica, his three children, has a proven track record as a businessman, public service in the florida legislature, and now is a member of the united states congress. now, here we are in for the first time in history, there have been two black americans placed into the nomination for speaker of the house. [applause]

however, under speaker order, or madame clerk, order. we do not seek to judge people by the color of their skin but rather the content of their character. byron donalds -- [cheers and applause]

byron donalds is a good man raised by single mom who moved past adversity. became a christian man at the age of 21, and has devoted his life to advancing the cause for his family in this country. and he has done it admirably. there is an important reason for nominating byron. and this country needs a change. this country needs leadership that does not reflect the city. this town that is badly broken. [applause] the house of representatives is the people's house.

it represents the entirety of our country and we each represent some 750,000 people. and here we sit in a room filled with those representatives. and my friend mr. gallagher, he is my friend and i agree with them on many things, and i agree almost anything you were talking about. but we should be in here having this kind of a conversation with this many people in the room about the ukraine. and we should debate the merits and ups and downs of being involved. we should debate the $45 billion. we should debate whether it should be more or less. we should be debate whether it should be paid for peer we should debate what the result we should demand. the only way you will get that is if you change the rules and have the leadership to advance the rules to make sure we can do that. [applause]

now we have had a conversation for 2 months to try to advance the ball and we have had success in doing that. but we are not there. we are not at the place where we need to be to guarantee -- to guarantee we will be able to stand up in the face of the swamp that continues to step over the american people on a daily basis and spend money we don't have. and to continue to leave our borders open, and continue to fund a bureaucrat stepping over the freedoms of the american people. byron will stand up and do that. [applause] byron has a track record of doing that. and importantly while we are sitting here today and get to the b debate when they have the vote, i asked my friends of the side of the aisle do you think the american people support the status quo? yes or no? do you think the american people

want us to continue down the road of what we have been doing? do they want us to continue to do the things, the leadership in place has been in place, do you think they want us to continue down that path? and the argument i would make is that they want a new face, new vision, new leadership, and i believe that face, vision, and new leadership is byron donalds and i am proud to put his name in a nomination. i yelled back. [applause] >> the reading clerk will call the role.

adams. jeffries. at h, adderhalt, mccarthy. angular, jeffries. holford. mccarthy. allen, mccarthy. alrid, jeffries. amode, mccarthy.

armstrong, mccarthy. arrington, mccarthy. awkenklaus, jeffries babben. , mccarthy. bacon, mccarthy. bard, mccarthy balderson. , mccarthy. balent, jeffries. thanks, mccarthy. bar, mccarthy. beregan, jeffries. being of florida.

mccarthy. beatty, jeffries. betts, mccarthy bara, jeffries. burgman, mccarthy. buyer, jeffries bice. , mccarthy. bigs, donald's. bilorachus, mccarthy.

bishop of georgia, jeffries. bishop of north carolina, donalds. blumenauer, jeffries. blunt-rochester, jeffries bobert. donald's. jeffries. bowman, mccarthy.

jeffries boyle. of pennsylvania, jeffries. rakin, donalds. brown, jeffries. brownlee, jeffries. buchanan, mccarthy. buck, mccarthy. buchan, mccarthy. butzinski, jeffries. burchett, mccarthy. burgess, mccarthy. burleson, mccarthy.

bush, jeffries. calvert, mccarthy. camic, mccarthy. caravello, jeffries. carbohal, jeffries cardenas. , jeffries. carrie, mccarthy. carl, mccarthy. carson, jeffries. carter of georgia, mccarthy. carter of louisiana, jeffries.

carter of texas, mccarthy. cartwright. jeffries. cassar, jeffries. case, jeffries. kasten, jeffries. casher of florida. jeffries. castro of texas, jeffries. chavez derimer, jeffries. mccormick, jeffries chu. , jeffries.

cisellini, jeffries ciscomani. , mccarthy. clark of massachusetts, jef jeffries. clark of new york, jeffries. cleaver, jeffries. klein, mccarthy. cloud, donalds. cliburne, jeffries. clyde, donalds.

cohen, jeffries. coal, mccarthy. collins -- >> harris: bret baier you're watching along with us from washington, d.c., and kevin mccarthy has gotten to the point again. he has got 6 who voted other and the meaning of that is what at this point? >> bret: once you get to the 5 e heading to a fifth ballot for speaker of the house. they are not going to have enough votes for byron donalds to surpass mccarthy's votes, and neither jeffries nor mccarthy will get to 218 the number needed, the magic number. a couple of things really quickly byron donalds represents the 19th district of florida, congressional district who lives in naples southwest florida that

area, fort myers. it is only going to be his second term in congress. he is well respected, and is very across the party within the caucus a lot of people like him, you heard of chip roy's introduction and nomination of him, he became the 20 vote yesterday to vote for jordan saying he was sick of doing all of these ballots. now he is the name they are choosing instead of jim jordan. for speaker of the house. one other interesting thing, obviously an african american man he grew up in the bronx, so if he managed to succeed to get the numbers needed to be speaker of the house, he would have both the speaker and the democratic leader being from the bronx and being african american men. but he is not going to get the numbers at least on this ballot. and we are heading to a fifth ballot for speaker of the house whether that is today, whether that is tomorrow, we don't know. this is going to go on past this

boat. >> harris: bret, did you see anything? we are listening closely to the names and i know they do it alphabetically but we are listening to c, was there any change? any change in boat you happened to notice? >> bret: no. we have not all voted in yet but it is looking like it's going to be 20 again seeing donalds votes if he votes for himself. >> harris: of course he votes for himself. >> bret: i don't know, maybe. he has endorsed mccarthy, he did at the beginning care and he said yesterday his boat to get to the 20 was to stop the process. to stop the bleeding of these ballots. it will be interesting to see how he votes. also chip roi and other republicans wanted to make the point they want a new generation of leader, and that their problem is with kevin mccarthy, not with the

policies. >> harris: i'm looking now, i had been following byron donalds pretty closely on twitter earlier in the day. you know, he says he is not sure of where he might be going which is what he said before he voted yesterday. all along, jason, i have wondered. we know there were five absolute no's and 14-15 probably nos how weak is the support of kevin mccarthy amongst the people that say yeah i am voting for you. they do vote in the first three rounds and maybe there is a change, we don't know because it's not over yet. >> jason: the more these votes happen the more we get locked in. that's the problem. the 20 i think are really locked in. >> harris: could be more than 20 this time? >> jason: i don't know, but if this plays really well in those districts, you know? people have to understand you are right, these primaries come up in about 14 months from now in the saying i'm not going to

vote for somebody who has been in leadership for 14 years. i came to change the way we do business. i thought chip roy was pretty eloquent. in saying his argument i could argue both sides of this but i can see where a lot of people say we want somebody else, a new generation of leadership. i can't go back to my constituents and say i came here and i perpetuated the status quo by voting the very person who has been in leadership for 14 years. >> kennedy: and bret, it's kennedy may be can answer this what does kevin mccarthy do next? he has gone the entitlement route saying he's from the speakership and then he went the tough guy route saying all right i will strip you of your committee chairs, and then he went into horsetrading promising various representatives of various things for their various districts. what else does he have in his quiver? what does he do next? >> jason: he is running out of arrows. there are not a lot of other

things, and the negotiations, it is simply about member to member. trying to get them and sway them. every indication we have from mccarthy and his allies is that he will fight the long fight here and continue to try to hold his group together at some point it becomes untenable but when that is we don't know. remember, you have to have the quorum, the exact amount of people. if you have fewer in that chamber, the number, the magic number is fewer. either on the democratic or a republican side, if that changes over time, maybe mccarthy can get to the magic number. but it seems as the votes go on that there is a hunger for somebody else. member too, mccarthy is ending up at each one of these votes at 203. the other ones are at 20. so you will have a standoff here unless somebody negotiates. now there are all kinds of names being thrown out.

mike pence as a possible solution. there is mchenry, tom cole, all of these other people but byron donalds is now going to get the votes that jim jordan got yesterday. we will see how donald himself votes momentarily. >> emily: we just did capitol hill's producer just said after he voted for himself he received a small standing ovation from the "anti-mccarthy members" standing there in. >> harris: emily, when you look at that, that looks like someone who potentially has some support in a room may be more than jim jordan, we don't know at this point. could we actually see a position where others switch? i mean, people are still voting. i understand what bret is saying, we are beyond the point where mccarthy has won this on the fourth boat, that's not happening. that happened when the others category got to 5. i get that. but could it get worse for kevin mccarthy if people say oh, byron donalds i look kind of like him?

i didn't realize they would put some new second term choices in there. >> emily: i would say i felt the electricity surge on this couch when we heard chip roy's nomination for byron donalds and we said he's making history right now. actually, volley the question to you, jason, will this be like the bills-oilers game will this be the greatest comeback in history with to harris' point is it exactly the person this faction of the g.o.p. party that says we do not want this status quo, we are not here for it, we are not here for mccarthy and here finally someone has an alternative that could work because jim jordan clearly wasn't the right candidate. would you predict this could actually be the different eye of the storm if you were a betting man from the 14 plus and then more than the 200? >> jason: fairly certain the strategy of the 20 are to show a series of people they could vote

for. i think also on that list is kevin hearn, who is just unanimously elected to the republican study committee, not many people know him. he's a congressman out of oklahoma. but they really like him. they also like lee zeldin who the body is very familiar with. you will continue to hear these names, and i think it plays well for the 22 say we are not here to represent the status quo, this is what we told him we would do and here are some names we can get behind and byron donalds is a very capable member that a lot of people respect. i think he would be a wonderful speaker. >> harris: let's talk again about the former but my vice president mike pence. bret i know you have to leave us in a few moments so i will go back to if you are still with us. how does that play out? the politics of someone who, you know many of us have looked at on a potential list to run for president in 2024. what does this all mean for

somebody like mike pence? >> bret: these are just names, harris that are being thrown out and mike pence is probably not in the running as far as wanting to be speaker of the house. all indications are he wants to run for president periods these are names that are being thrown out to be consolidating figures that could potentially get the votes and change the dynamic. i think you have a situation here that is a stalemate. 2, jason's point yes the 20 are having success in showing there are alternatives to mccarthy, but eventually you have to get to this is over and they are moving onto the people's business, the american people's business. and with a negotiated deal they have made that five people could stand up and say this speakership is not working, there has to be taking a "yes" at some point if you are going back to your constituents saying "we are doing this ad nauseam." >> harris: so, jackie, we

talked about the economy a little bit. you said there are underlying factors separate from wall street today. most people aren't looking at their televisions for the wall street number today. they are paying the bills. they are in cold places right now like buffalo that is finally starting to thaw. they are thinking heat and eat, those types of issues. they may be watching this. they may be wondering does that delay my ability to do what republicans had promised we would do? >> e>> kennedy: that's very possible, but i think those issues are going to continue with us. throughout the year. >> jackie: i think we are bracing basically because so much damage has been done already. the ability to block spending is a wonderful thing. to not dig into the whole worse but we are already in the hole and getting out of it is going to be a little difficult. the federal reserve is trying to do that. they cannot do it alone. you know, i caution viewers to brace for it because i think oil

prices could shift. i think a lot of different things could shift this year that people are not expecting. i think people could lose their jobs as these rates continue too go up. this is very important absolutely. i am not necessarily sure how much legislation is going to happen to actually be able to elicit change. i want to make one more point. this is an interesting comparison. but when elon musk was making the bid to buy my twitter in the $44 billion, there is part of me that thinks he just wanted to ignite the conversation. and then the whole period where he was trying to back out of its because he didn't necessarily want the company, he just wanted to get people talking about it and to bring the issues to the surface. so, jason, i am wondering. if part of this political theater if you can call it that to some degree isn't for these 20 to say we are ignite in. we are coming to show our constituents and if we given eventually and you get this,

mccarthy, you better come close to our site. >> harris: i'm sorry, bret you have to go in a minute and a half so final word on this, something to pick up from jackie on or just your own comic own thoughts on this? >> jason: makes a good point but the statement is how far will they go? that's where we are. giant game of legislative chicken on the house chamber floor. who is going to give first? what will the negotiation be? the little bug in the corner suggests byron donalds will be on the 1:00 p.m. eastern time show. that will be interesting to see with john and sandra because how he portrays what his intentions are now one for himself moments ago will be fascinating. you'll probably stick at 20, we haven't seen anyone added to the list we are heading to a fifth ballot, 1856 was 153 ballots so we are a long way to go.

>> harris: bret has been an honor and a plunger and also fun. as it always is to have you along, you have to get ready for all of the things so we appreciate you being with us on outnumbered. for some of this. is not a smooth ride it's a bumpy one. it's i guess are going forward. >> is that where we are going question marks me when i don't know! >> jason: i don't know we would call it forward but we are paddling i guess. >> harris: and kennedy you keep up with the letters that's what i was asking where are we? >> jason: not even halfway through. this is wild. >> kennedy: you will see more people peel off it's what happens and what happened to a ulysses s. grant when he was trying to secure the nomination for his third term as president pair he thought he would do it on the first ballot. he narrowly failed. then he didn't seal the nomination at all. he was a two termer and the constitution was amended. kevin mccarthy has been

suffering from this favor for some time and byron donalds is just getting a whiff of it. he wants to get the very top. he can see power, he wants to get his hands on it, he changes people. will he represent change for the better? we have to wait and see. >> harris: wow. that was just beautiful. and of course, now we are at 103. for mccarthy. jeffries 101. sitting at 12 formica others. jason you think will pop anothee where we are yesterday? >> jason: i think the numbers will be similar. i think there are three ways to ascend to the position, one is you carve out a name for yourself on oversight, that's what john baynard end. the early days of john boehner, that's how he made a name for himself and got there. give other people that are policy oriented. that's why paul ryan was there. that's why newt gingrich is there. to put together a coalition of peoples and wow you're the smartest person in the room about policy. and in the third one is about

money. that's how nancy pelosi got there, and that's what kevin mccarthy is making arm. i raised the most money, i deserve it, i campaigned the most. but wasn't begun of to, because of policy or oversight it was because of money. >> harris: but emily, he was able to raise all of that money. and he thought they would get 246 seats in the midterms, and they didn't. right? he didn't meet that goal of being able to be the monster money seat grabber and all of that kind of stuff. i mean what happened? >> emily: and some argue on top of that the fact that he was clearly unable to win enough votes for the speakership then is exactly why they argue he shouldn't be in that leadership position. they say essentially you are tests were abject failures and we are seeing them play out even further, which begets the question who next? so to what you all were saying earlier, this whole crew, this different one after another

these names are indicating here are plenty of capable people that in fact cannot only rally but can also represent the new face of the party that many need and want and have been yearning for, that donald trump's election paid for and the question is at what point will it be successful if at all? that goes back to my question to you about whether this is indeed that 1993 game or. i think you know the ten or best of this particular house make. really what you think will happen? if that's the worst question on live tv. >> jason: it's hard because i don't know barry i can argue both sides of this. but i think a lot of people will say okay, why is it kevin mccarthy? this is an open see. why kevin mccarthy? no typically what i hear is he has raised the most money and he ran to every district and helped get a lot of people elected. is not enough to become the speaker of the house of representatives? everybody is going to have to make up that decision. the members are going to have to go back to their constituents

and say i voted for, mccarthy because-and what is the answer that question? for the 20, it is like. >> kennedy: why don't they like him? it's not his policies, it's not the direction of the country, it's not even the status quo. they don't like him, why? >> jason: they don't like them because they didn't necessarily get the hill. they didn't trust him and they broke a lot of that trust. let me give you a short quick example. rules package which was published on sunday night says we have 72 hours to review a bill. that bill was supposed to be called up on tuesday. less than 48 hours. sold there aren't members there that old saying this is exactly why we don't trust kevin mccarthy. you put forward the rules package, we had less than 48 hours to review it, and then the bill said it would give a 72 hours. by the way, it makes oversight worse, not better. that's their opinion. that's what they are saying. i'm affecting having talked to people part of that 20, they are saying case example just

happened a couple days ago. >> harris: all right, we are watching this and as we forward toward the end of the fourth vote, the question comes do they adjourn? and already, emily, who mentioned emotion already that yeah, we don't want to adjourn, that was before the fourth. i wonder if they will try to put a motion now to adjourn after this since mccarthy will obviously not win and where to go from this? does he bring in free pizza again and do they sit around and kumbaya? as if he loses one more about what will happen then? >> jason: they could do another round. i tend to think -- >> harris: why would he do another round? >> kennedy: i think they are in charge of the clock right now. they are not allowing a recess to be called and they know the longer this goes the more chaotic and disorganized it looks the worse it is for mccarthy and in more academic the more it hurts him. >> jason: also the 20 get a forum they wouldn't get

otherwise they could stand up and make a case. that's why i think they will go potentially with lee zeldin. >> harris: so, jackie, i hesitate to say this because i don't even know really what this means in terms of some of the bills in play. there've been some things on the senate side that senator mcconnell and the democrats have even agreed to some infrastructure and all of that. does this impact any of that money being spent? >> jackie: i don't think so. >> harris: so we will see and jason you are saying no. the reason i ask that is because i mean, i think, emily, you were the one. mcconnell gave his blessing to mccarthy. as a senate there were republicans and the senate will they sit purged to watch this? does anyone else come to a screeching halt while we don't have a speaker of the house? >> emily: and while this is all happening, first of all that was utilized leverages an argument of look, there's a lot of cohesiveness within the g.o.p.

you have even mcconnell through trump advocating for mccarthy, so hey, guys, get on line. and then keep in mind as we mentioned a moment ago. off air, the democrats are eating popcorn. >> harris: literally. >> emily: literally and publicly. they're really enjoying this moment of them to mock the g.o.p. publicly and say this is exactly what you said you would do in power? reminder democrats still have the senate and they still have the white house. so the congress is the only place where the g.o.p. enjoys albeit a slim majority and they are saying this what you're doing with her? this is what you do when the game is tied up? then you drop the ball? so we will see what comes on the other end of this and to bret's point maybe two days it will be seen as inconsequential or nominal but in this moment it seems quite significant. >> jason: the only thing that doesn't get going is oversight. they cannot issue subpoenas, they can't start calling, they have to have a certain number of

days. >> harris: so afghanistan and how we present there? >> jason: yeah. i think they have until maybe the weekend and they start to turn a corner. >> harris: that's two days. >> emily: it is wednesday. >> harris: it's thursday and friday until the weekend. [laughter] have you seen the last two days? >> kennedy: just we thought it could get more wild harris that's what i was thinking. we have seen so much political turmoil. all of our elections, especially the presidency, and to emily's point republicans finally think they have a win and it is still very much unsettled. i am still in the camp i think change can happen. i don't know if there is a grand scenario that these 20 art of playing with or going after, but if they do in fact have something tangible they want, momentum is definitely on their side right now. it will not stay very long

because people will agitate for stability but in this moment we could see the party coalesce in a more freedom centered way they want. >> harris: wouldn't that be interesting. if it's around i don't know byron donalds the congressman elect from florida? he is coming up on america reports the first thing i would ask him would be when did you know and when they do know it? >> emily: right? >> harris: people wanting to nominate you for speaker of the house and of course he voted for himself today, as i kind of figured he wouldn't would but you never know. we will stick with this right here on fox news channel. this is history being made, in 1923 van more than one ballot. now we've gone in several different history making ways. we now have many ballots, we have had a recess until noon that happened today and we picked up with the fourth ballot, perhaps they vote again, perhaps as kennedy says, democrats are eager to see more chaos so they push for more voting. and watch perhaps kevin

on fox news. "america reports" again will talk with the man who right now has the 15 votes for others against kevin mccarthy, byron donalds from florida, congressman elect. thanks for watching us on "outnumbered." and when you can't watch, dvr. >> sandra: "america reports" with the house floor, speakership battle enters a second day with kevin mccarthy fighting members of his own republican party to take the top job. hello and welcome, everyone, i'm sandra smith in new york. hello, john. >> john: mccarthy receiving a fourth nomination for the leadership role, appears to be losing again as republican holdouts dig in their heels. byron donalds also receiving a