i am the shannon brain pray the presumed 2024 presidential front runners. >> i take classified documents and classified material seriously. it's not like they're sitting on the street. shannon: so i do try to quiet concerns about the handling of classified documents. after blasting from her president trump on the wake of the mar-a-lago search. and house republicans officially invite the president to deliver his state of the union address. as they launch multiple investigations and press for

spending cuts. >> a federal bureaucrat was to spend it, they will come before us to defend it. >> will any gop proposals make it through a democrat led senate and passed a veto pen? texas republican congressman tony gonzalez. california democratic congressman joe and us alive on what will actually happen now that republicans are in charge. from white house press secretary to the arkansas governor's mansion. >> will help me god pickwick to help me bobbitt. >> sarah huckabee sanders serving as a nation's youngest governor. a flurry of executive orders on hot button issues. and facing issues about whether she will endorse her former boss in 2024. we sit down with governors sanders and her first interview since each office the sunday exclusive. only by the administration says following inflation is a win for the president's policies. >> the sixth month in a row

inflation has come down for a. >> but american still face shortages of a baby formula, over-the-counter and prescription drugs and more. bless our sunday panel what is in store as americans head to the store in 2023. plus, to scholars with diametrically opposed worldviews on their unlikely friendship and how we can all find common ground. all right now on "fox news sunday". ♪. shannon: hello from fox news in washington. on this weekend room of the legacy of doctor trayvon martin luther king jr. they current and former president who make face up again in 2024 are both facing investigations for their handling of classified documents. and now the white house as president biden's lawyers found a more of them at his home and at wilmington, delaware in recent days. the revelation comes after the president repeatedly criticized former president trump and classified materials were found

at mar-a-lago. >> would you saw the photograph of the top-secret documents laid out on the floor of mar-a-lago, what did you think yourself? looking at that image? >> how that could possibly happen. how anyone could be that irresponsible. totally irresponsible. the twin investigation is republicans take power in the house this month but also this month governors across the oath of office. that includes sarah huckabee sanders, sworn and newly is arkansas' governor. >> as long as i am your governor at the meddling hand a big government creeping down from washington d.c. will be stopped cold at the mississippi river. >> sanders is already executive order spend crt in public schools and the use of latina exit state material. she is going to join us this hour for an exclusive interview. first for track in the battle brewing on capitol hill over spending cuts. any moment will speak with

republican congressman tony gonzalez of texas by california democratic congressman jon garamendi. welcome back to "fox news sunday". >> good morning. >> i want to start by saying we have been all up and watch the devastating images of record snowfall, rain, landslides got last check at least 19 people dead there in california. and i think i can spoke for a lot of folks that were praying for you out there in california as to whether this and more storms coming, sir. >> thank you for your concern and indeed more storms probably about a mile and half or the flooded area spear in the central valley just south of sacramento. it is tough, it is very, very tough. california is use the extremes. here we go again. shannon: let's talk about this extremes here in washington planning to debate a lot of headlines. let's talk about the discovery of classified documents and president biden's possession at different homes and office locations and that revelation yesterday from special counsel to the president of yet more

documents. in praising center at grams said this. we all must him or her former secretary of state clintons in case it involved hard drives being beaten with a hammer. the using of a bleach bit to prevent the recovery of files of the disappearance of 30,000 e-mails under subpoena. nothing happened in her case rate speaker kevin mccarthy makes this observation. >> what is so surprising to me this came out before the election. every time you find something that comes out before an election dealing with the biden families pushed under the rug. >> congressman, to get why so many americans at least on the perception the justice department does not treat all americans equally? and what does the department have to do in these cases to reassure americans? >> doing exactly what they are doing now permit special counsel in place, the documents in the whole issue before the special counsel. the investigations go forward

with regard to these classified documents that were found. i don't need to imagine i know exactly what biden said when he was informed these documents were found in his office, in his office in washington and it was that oh, followed by a four letter expletive. it is an embarrassment, no doubt about it. is it more to it? i doubt it but we will find out the special counsel as he goes about his business. shannon: those investigations will continue but meanwhile the slot to deal with here in washington would be outward in the truck treasurer and secretary were going hit the debt ceiling within a matter of days for the white house said this week, no negotiations over raising the debt ceiling but that's not going to work as you know because the house rules passed by the gop have a number of things in there. when it comes to discuss the debt ceiling things like spending caps most of us you and me included you and me included but writing her own budgets at our household. where do you think that government that tighten its belt

customer and here we go again. >> is the debt limit as a lever to gain some sort of political advantage or policy along the way is really a very bad thing to do but we've seen this it's not a new pipe this is seen this play out. and the republicans in 2011 and 2013 use it and result was a shutdown of government. we do not win to go into that again for this is new spending protect what the debt limit do not talk about new spending you or talk about yesterday's appropriations and yesterday spending. you are trying let and medicaid. your talk about social security purity in the works and simply paying our bills. as a separate issue republicans should learn from their own history using the debt limit as a lever to gain some sort of political advantage to some

policy change really does not work well for them in terrible for the american economy. >> what they will say is if the new policy is to cut federal spending we are operating the time were taken more revenue, the federal government than ever has before so why not have a conversation about where you can handle cuts? >> well, we do. we do every year. we do an appropriation bill every year on that military side. we have the defense authorization act that i have worked on for the last 13 years. that is always a bipartisan. we cut some things we add things here and there. this is an ongoing investigation in the normal course of congress for it and it should be there. once again the debt limit is different. it's about being able to pay off the loans that we have actually made in the past for appropriations and spending in the past. going forward sure let's sit down talk about this program or that program, more here, less that that's the ongoing work of congress and we should be doing

that. the benefit of those who used it. they did not use three times they shrug their shoulders and the debt limit was increased that need to do. now they are in power here they were in power earlier they want to use it. it harms the economy, hand harms the nation harms our status around the world. shannon: a speaker is a new reality he made into beasts get the most to be speaker. you have done work on the hill for transportation use the hundreds of thousands of people stranded this week. we are told this is not unexpected. that some of this could have been predicted to quickly, what can you do to fix on capitol hill for the american people? >> we have to fund the faa. among the things are going to be cut from what i understand republicans talk about is funding for the faa.

now come on guys, we just went through this great meltdown of this system which is part of the faa's notification to pilots. but we need to do is to properly fund the faa. for the last 10 decades of been trying to put in place an air traffic control system. and every year there is insufficient funding has been stretched out for 10 years. another example of where we could to spend money wisely and we need to hold the faa accountable with hearings and oversight. shannon: i think they're going to be called in front of you guys to answer some questions for shortly. congressman garamendi thank you very much for being with us this morning. >> my pleasure, thank you. shannon: joining south texas republican tony gonzales. welcome back to "fox news sunday" good to see you. >> thank you for having me, shannon. let's go back to the discovery of documents. people are saying is two different cases the "washington post" of the trump and biting classified document revelations are not the same for there's no indication at this point either

the scale of information but with help from the government is as a larger more importantly biden or his team endeavored to hide the documents from the justice department. so, are these two different cases? should the special counsel's view them differently? >> it should view them similarly. i think biden has highlighted his incompetence for the world to see. i spent 20 years as a naval cryptology is holding top secret sci clearance working daily with national security agency print what you see is a failure. while the politics and is a lucrative unmarked focus on the practicality of it. i want to know who knew what and when. sources and methods compromise? if they weren't compromised as the intelligence community, what are they doing to mitigate th those? i am also concerned about the vice president. vice president harris has unnecessarily shown her level of confidence as borders are pretty as anyone checked too if she has any classified material sitting on her kitchen table?

shannon: have been no allegations of that i'm sure everyone on their staff is thinking that through knowing these cases have now captured national headline. former president and current president evans. and sweep of what they have their office. let's talk about wrapping up the first week would hurt criticisms about congressman garamendi. here's what the majority leader over the senate had to say he said republicans have given a free pass to wealthy tax cheats independently committed to undermine the threat law enforcement. undercut women's healthcare and put forward ager coding and budget plan that will lead to cuts, to medicare and social security. and at defining the police he says. he says you guys aren't serious either going to send things to die in the senate and the gop simply cannot govern. >> it will tire is very proud to see speaker maccarthy on the very first issue do away with 87000 new irs agents. not one of my constituents has ever told me hey tony, can you

get the irs to audit me? that show some pilot. got debt ceiling coming up. i'm hearing june is going but the pinnacle of that. got a little bit of time. we have got to start early. and honestly worried about the direction in which next week is looking at. one thing in particular's border security and immigration. often times this is a topic that gets them blended. i am particularly concerned with boarded safety and security act. essentially what it doesn't bans asylum, all a silent to include legitimate asylum burden very concerned about that. about a year ago there were these three little girls the cartel abandoned on one of these fields outside of eagle pass. if this bill were to become law, what you do with those little girls? do you throw them to the other side of the fence? i don't think that is the american way. america is built on freedoms and opportunities for the immigration system aptly needs to be reformed. but abolishes one step too far. shannon: quickly won a note back

on the irs but likes the 87000 agents it's 87000 employees not all them agents. the concern obviously there will be were audits study show five -- one that was making under $25000 there are more likely to be audited than millionaires that's another conversation. back to the border i understand you had a meeting with dhs secretary mayorkas this week for a number of your colleagues have introduced articles and will introduce additional articles to impeach him. he's got to be aware of that, what is your take in a conversation with him about what this administration assesses the border is a likely to do in coming months? do they have a real understanding or take any responsibility for what is going on there? >> i did have a meeting earlier this week with secretary mayorkas. look, the house of representatives and no doubt going to start impeachment articles. and where that takes us, only the truth the latest there. representative jim jordan is going to believe those efforts. i am confident he will bring out the truth in that matter. as a member of congress, my role

is oversight -- mike one of my roles as oversight of the executive branch preceding doubts secretary mayorkas, one thing in particular push for two years is to get border patrol agents out of the processing centers and back into the field. one of the things in particular i asked for us to reopen the border patrol station and cut to leopard's about 60 miles from the border bridge been shut down for about six months. another thing we talked about was the faa outage. one of the things i asked his hate was this a cyber attack? dhs is part of the intelligence committee they do so much more other than border. we talk about relations with china and holding china accountable. i thought it was a productive conversation. but clearly, dhs has to do more. shannon: would you vote to impeach him? >> i will see when the hearings take us.

at the hearings take us down that line, i'm waiting to see all of the facts come out. >> rick quickly went asked what the debt ceiling part you voted no on the house gop and part of what that doesn't deal with how the speaker is expected to not negotiate on the debt ceiling. white has had this week note negotiation, no hostagetaking. how does that square with the rule package you have now? does the speaker risk a motion to vacate by someone he doesn't think he does a tough enough job on the debt ceiling? >> a debt ceiling is no doubt going to be a knife fight. we have to start early. i've been of the mindset no defense cuts without reforms. the key here is reforms. if you just cut defense especially national debt to go down, that is not going to happen. the only thing you're going to do is hurt defense. we have to have a broader discussion but reforms are important but when you start that conversation early and we need to be transparent. one of the things i've been pushing force have open hearings and also the bill gets issued on

the floor there is opportunities to amend it. i think that's very important to get buy-in from rank-and-file members where it is not a top-down approach like we have seen with nancy pelosi that was failed from the beginning. shannon: got ago would you vote yes to raise the debt ceiling what would it take? >> we are a long ways to go. defense spending is going to be keeper have to see were defense spending is going to be at. shannon: are a congressman thank for your time. >> thank you shannon. shannon: up text may not be hearing much about it anymore but parents across the nation are still desperately searching for baby formula in both prescription and over-the-counter drugs for children and infants is also getting harder to fiberboard to bring or send a group to talk about how families are dealing with the shortages in the middle of flu season. life... doesn't stop for diabetes. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna.

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>> how would someone be that irresponsible? isn't that this president says about the classified documents? >> the president spoke to this personally. again, he believes classified documents and information should be taken seriously. shannon: that was our own fox news peter doocy asking press secretary the same question mr. biden himself asked after classified materials were found at maar lago. it is time now for the senator. put a co- congressional reporter olivia beaver's, townhall.com political editor guy benson, foxy senior political williams but author legal commentator horst cooper. great to have all be with us for it's been a quiet week here in washington. [laughter] but start the documents. kimberly strassel writing at the wall street journal in an opinion piece as this, the power the department may in the

justice department now has of the 24 election is extraordinary. how long will the probe strike on? but one investigation sooner than the other giving one candidate an advantage? but one be exonerated but one is indicted? how much information be leaked in each probe it attempts at partisan advantage. guy, legal issues aside their political issues as well. >> this is been an interesting couple of days. you would think a team biden which discovered these documents according to their story before the election. so it months ago would have gotten their act together rather than what we've actually seen which is a drip, drip, drip of their own making in that they control the circumstances which i think it's political malpractice certainly. when it comes to the legal side of it and certainly the optics on the politics as well, i keep saying that hillary clinton standard or precedent is the most relevant here. i think of the three people we are talking about her conduct was most egregious. she was never charged. i cannot imagine how they could

charge a president trump now especially in light of what is going on invited world. and who knows that this is the end of it. they told us the search was concluded and then five more documents showed up in a room somewhere at a house on behalf of a president or from a president whose advisors keep saying he takes us all very seriously. but actions and words are different here. shannon: less the art buddy amy mccarthy federal prosecutors it should be case right biden has it admitted guilt. it appears that biden is not challenging the documents were classified. that the locations in which he kept them were not authorized. and he failed to keep track of them. why haven't investigation all the elements of the events are established, juan? >> i find the story baffling in some way. i think these sends are close enough to the casual observer they would say well, you know what, one president did it, now another president did it. it's an equal playing field. in fact, this is the most crazy thing. this is a situation you have one

individual who is forthcoming. one is hiding. have one individual who's cooperating, one who has been stonewalling. one instance which is intentionally taking documents for more than a year, refusing to give them up versus someone who says some documents were a surprise and accidentally discovered by the quantity of the documents is hugely different. but again the scene is close at the casual observer's going to say they all did it so let's just let trump off the hook. i think the stories about trump. and fok people otherwise would e talk about inflation going down. people will be talking about the progress the country has been making economically, good jobs report. it said people about to me what is a cable news trump talking point. shannon: aren't horse, apples and oranges? >> not was sent let me suggest

what this does reveal is we live in a two-tiered system. if you were a civilian or if you were even in the service, what you would find with evidence of this kind, you would already have been frog marched out. it's not about the different search in the president and the former president. it is the difference between those who are elites and those who are not. why do we have lost if we are not going to hold people accountable for the violations of them? that is really telling in this case. space i want to victory at the capitol hill been taught but the debt ceiling this big fight that is coming. do we even know the exact rules or parameters these holdouts have made with speaker mccarthy in order to get in those votes with respect to this or anything else? >> are still figuring it out for their two tears that there are the agreements they made and they are sharing with the conference and the other our goals that they say at what they want to aspire too. the "washington post" had a story out saying some

republicans including congressman roy who is one of the 20, wants to do debt prioritization part which means you can choose where the money goes too. and republican experts find that really controversy over democrats heather going to use it against them. whether kevin mccarthy as a speaker decides to push for that is going to be a whole different thing. i think we are all preparing for this it really a messy weather it's pulling 15 belts we don't know print that is how congress kicked off this year. shannon: teams to the white house and the laughter saying guy, this is on the republicans for they are playing games with the full faith and credit of the united states. and they are the ones were going to crash this economy and global stability by saying they may or may not go along with raising the debt ceiling. >> we did all this about a decade ago. i seem to recall bits and pieces, fragments of it. and here we go again, and a question about that. the technical limit is in a few days. but with the extraordinary measures portion of the program that will get us to i think

june. there's a few months to play with. i think of republicans look back at some the success they had on this front, roughly a decade ago a little bit more it was because they had a unified, somewhat reasonable ask in the end. if they can get there again they have leverage here to maybe put a dent in this thing to some extent. the white house will have to negotiate. but they have to be unified which might be a challenge given what was how the beginning of the year end we will see if they adjust accordingly. shannon: those of the top headlights i got the tire was surprised about something that has not been in the headlines. this is a shortage of baby formula. we printed out some medications too. i got a message from a friend who said she had a mother with a baby who went to a drugstore and paid $47 for a can of formula. the shelves were otherwise bear. this is what usa said not longer the anguish is palpable and heartbreaking as mothers still are frantically searching for baby formula to feed their babies, shelves are bare in some places and stores are still rationing sales. what is going on and why are we

not hearing about it? >> we clearly have a supply-chain management problem. we clearly have shifted in a way when we shut down the economy that we realize, we rely overwhelmingly on unreliable sources. particularly china. no one in the white house even of this problem has started to improve, no one in the white house has addressed the real serious problem, what are we doing so that in general, not just baby formula which is very important, but what are we doing so that we shift so there are more domestic supply opportunities? what we also see in this particular case is a renegade regulatory environment of this administration. and so one person talks or issues and a directive and shuts down an industry without regard. this is not too much unlike the snatch of gasoline. one regulatory agency said is we

want to do it and them in the white house realizes its impact, they say they don't. excuse me the baby formula problem is part of this. >> is a special weekend and that we are remembering doctor trayvon martin luther king junior's legacy. as much as we have time, get some reflections on where we are as a country, what we can learn from his legacy and what we should focus on this weekend, one will start with you. >> to meet we are going through. in terms of race in american society we have lots of arguments over identity politics, politically correct speech, changing team names and the like. at the same time you have to realize were in the midst of huge demographic shifts that are changing the composition, the racial composition of the country. and to that extent i think we have to celebrate something. i think america is actually doing much better than you would have anticipated. a lot of our political arguments haven't racial subtext to them. we have to worry about white nationalism and a like a mer merging. but at the same time i think we

should celebrate for a moment. if you can be as skeptical and negative as you like it stopped for a moment and say isn't it amazing given the amount of change taking place that we are still managing to maintain the idea that we have so much in common as americans. >> horse? >> i think trayvon martin luther king would be extremely excited about what america has accomplished and the name of the vision of equality of americans. i think he would also be very disappointed how many people are taking that a quality vision as an attack on people in a new racism is developing in america that is to be stopped. white people, mails, et cetera to serve just as much a welcoming and american society as rosa parks did. shannon: what about you, olivia? what's one thought that occurred to me as we are in a pretty divisive time. but the teachings of trayvon martin luther king have continued to persist and be part

of our teachings and preachings of how to protest and how to push back on societal change. his voice still really resonates today. >> the founders gave a miraculous gift in this country with the understanding we had to always strive for a more perfect union. it's hard to think of one man who did more in his lifetime in pursuit of that golden doctor king. shannon: think you will, pampered cap next this election cycle sought nine new governor's assent to the state's highest office but we sit with down with one of the youngest one of the new governor's former trump white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders now governor of arkansas, next. ntro it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. - elites. now that we've made travel so expensive, this golf course is all... ours?

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cooks just this week sarah huckabee sanders was sworn in as a nation's youngest governor purchase art of making headlines signing a bunch of executive orders including education. sanders served two years as a trump/white house press secretary for president trump encouraged her to follow in her father's footsteps and run for governor. now people are asking if she will ultimately support trump in

2024. governor sanders joined us now for first sunday show interviewed now that she's officially on the job. government welcome back to "fox news sunday". >> thank you, it's great to be with you this morning. >> we talked during the commercial about the fact your kids will grow up in the house where you grew up now that you are a governor but you have a different bedroom this time it sounds like your daughters going to grow up in the space you did as well. hit the ground running this week after inauguration. a number of executive orders, some folks love them some do not. the second by a critic these orders. what is called executive order to inhibit indoctrination in schools. the house minority leader and arkansas you can't support our teachers if we alienate insult them with executive orders she said crt is not being taught and arkansas schools. xes seemed to back her up. reality check there's no indication the college level courses in any arkansas public schools. if that is true why the

executive order? >> it is incredibly important we do things to protect the students in our state. we have to make sure we are not indoctrinating our kids these policies and ideas never see the light of day. we should never teach our kids to hate america or that america is a racist and evil country. in fact it should be the exact opposite. we know for a fact the department of education issued crt guidance and policies to every school district in the country. our job is to protect the students but we are going to take steps every single day to make sure we do exactly that. that is the reason i signed an executive order. i'm proud of the fact we are taking those steps we are going to continue to do it every single day that i'm in office. >> can teach yourself the uncomfortable conversations about the sensitive past the things our country's gotten wrong? >> our teachers aptly needed teach our history. they should not teach our kids and our students ideas to hate

this country and to give it a false premise about who we are in what we are about. that is something we make sure we protect her students from. we also need to make sure our teachers are focused on teaching our students reading, writing, science, math. these are the areas we have to improve and arkansas. that's one of the biggest and first things i have laid out over the course of the two years during the campaign is a huge education reform package. making sure we are focus on things like literacy, parental empowerment, accountability, career readiness and making sure we are protecting our students. we are going to do the largest most aggressive conservative education reform package here in the next legislative session here and arkansas progress a number of democrats and they want to work with on the issues of education. they are with you they are not for they do have vouchers or public money following kids potentially to private schools or other places. they also point to the fact you want to phase out the state income tax. they say listen, teachers and

arkansas are among the worst paid in the nation. they think rolling back the state income tax that revenue sources going to make it harder to up the pay and benefits for teachers there. >> we are absolutely capable. we are currently spending 54% of our state budget on education. for not getting the results are students enter for parents to serve. we can and must do better with the money we are already investing with that i absolutely think we can and should raise teacher pay and put incidents where they need to be. we need to reward a hard-working teachers but that's part of the education package that we are going to roll out here in the next couple of weeks. we also have to make sure those teachers are delivering for our students and that parents are empowered to make the best decisions possible for how and when their kit will best be educated. kicked out of the hands of bureaucrats but it back in the hands of parents. there is nobody that knows better how their kid can best be

educated how their kid can best be put on a path to success than parents. we have to empower parents to make those decisions. make those choices. no child should ever be trapped on their bank account or zip code that something this can be stopped and arkansas for. >> what about this idea vouchers this are going to be unaccountable dollars that they go somewhere else but to take money out of public schools were other kids are left behind for the schools are underperforming in the money is pulled out that creates an untenable situation for those kids who cannot afford to go elsewhere. >> you certainly have to have accountability in the process. that is something we want to make sure we have throughout education as encouraging that accountability components. competition breeds success. if a child is stuck in a school that's failing that's unfair to the student. it's not what is best for the school, it has to be what is best for the student. that's when to be our focus is making sure every child in the

state of arkansas has access to quality education so that they can be put on a pathway to prosperity. if we are not looking at it that way i think we are looking education all wrong. shannon: another executive artist gotten attention says a latina and be eliminated from official government use. in a piece in another network says what's characterized as respect is a patronizing attempt to shut down a debate among latin american descendent people about how to name themselves. why was that a priority fuel leak one? it's again making sure we are protecting our citizens by not using culturally insensitive language. during the course of the transistors on multiple incidents of this being used. an individual's audit payroll with this term. we went to make sure we are focused on empowering our citizens. only 3% of hispanics actually use that term and many find it offensive. our goal is to get that out of state government policy and

practice. >> will look ahead to 2020 for your file on your official pages government describes you as a quote trusted confidant of president trump. have you talked to him about his 24 run? will you endorse him in that? >> my focus right now on 2822 winning the election in november, preparing through transition and getting ready to take office as i did this past week. i love the president, have a great relationship with him. i know our current should be infinitely better off if he was in office right now instead of joe biden. right now my focus is not 2024 it's focusing here in arkansas and doing what we can to empower the people of the state. and make sure i am delivering on the promises i laid out over the course of the last two years. shannon: what kind of timeline would you have for making decision question might do it to see who else is getting in the primary? we wait for the nominee? >> again my focus is on a 25 forts we can deliver this legislative session but i'm not going to set an arbitrary

timeline. i'm not really focus on that at all but focus on what we can do to impact change and deliver on the promises we made during the campaign season here in ark arkansas. >> so, it's arty speculation about your future, a piece in new yorker magazine intelligence was written before the former president announced he was running and set is sarah huckabee sanders already auditioning for vice president? too early for status roughly top spot but what about trump/sanders 24? she shot her loyalty to the far present repeatedly said if the former president didn't run again may beat desantis/sanders would have a ring to it. you just got sworn into you feel the pressure of future speculation? >> i feel the pressure of delivering the legislative session. that's the only thing our team and i am focused on is delivering on what we laid out to do. i look forward to serving as governor of arkansas for a full eight years that the people of arkansas will give me that

privilege and that opportunity. i am incredibly excited about what i think we have in front of us. that's the only thing i'm spending my time focus on right now but. shannon: stranger back of the manchin this time as the governor and a different room assignment i assume? >> certainly a little bit different. it will be interesting, this will be the first time since a chelsea clinton lived it will help elementary age kids in the governor's mansion. a whole new ballgame with our three kids. but very excited about again the opportunity that is in front of us. our kids are going to have as much from growing up years i did. shannon: governor sanders thank you for your time today. cap next a sitdown with two of the biggest names in academia on the campus culture wars how they manage have tough conversations and still say friends

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shannon: we hear a lot about polarization know are those acute than the world of politics. this morning went to highlight the examples. two professors work to stay close friend despite the significant policy differences but recent set out doctor cornel west and george. >> thank you for making time for us to predict after such an interesting friendship. there's a lot substantively you disagree about. but you are great friends. how do we do this in 2023? >> i think it has everything to do they love and the trust we have. we are more than friends he is my very dear brother. he's like a member of the fa family. and sometime members of the family can be wrong. i love him and i'm sure you still love him but most importantly we are tied to a deep commitment the fallible

quest for truth, beauty, goodness. and i learned much from him and he's has learned some things for me. in that sense i think the world needs to know you are actually looking at two brothers who have a deep love of each other. even as a disagreement in certain political policy issues. >> how have we lost that? how do we have the ability to do that with each other? >> is a failure of trust. ultimately a failure of friendship. the old language, and that worries me. no worries cornell because to run a democratic republic you need a minimum of >> friendship. people are going to disagree about things and circumstances of freedom, that is natural but how are they going to treat each of the disagree? are the adversaries to be defeated, destroyed or are they going to treat themselves and each other as fellow citizens who just happened to disagree about this? are they going to work it out

using the mechanisms of constitutional democracy, deliberative democracy? one side will lose in one side will lose for now? there's no permanent winners no permanent losers. we always have the opportunity to come back to our fellow citizens and say a few years ago when we face this issue we took a wrong turn we live down the wrong road. you can try again. but it's important to understand with those whom you disagree. cook. shannon: are both professors are teaching and spent a lot of time with the next generation. you think they get this this concept of being able to disagree but to have honest conversations? >> i think it's very difficult nowadays. people are actually rewarded for being echoes rather than finding their voices. you have to be sincere about who you are and what you do. you are not just posing and posturing. we live in a culture now people pose and posture all page the top, the middle, the bottom and never know who they are by the

time their funeral takes place. that is sad. shannon: your classrooms as well what you see about the next generation on their ability to engage on tough topics? >> one good thing about young people they can pick out a fraud at 100 paces. they know if you are faking it. they need to learn not everybody is a faker. they need to give up the cynicism. they need to be willing to acknowledge that someone isn't honest truth seeker. at a courageous truth speaker even if they disagree with them. and they need to recognize their own fallibility. here's a problem i find with the younger generation. they have not been taught the virtues of humility. it's not a silly feeling in them in the first instance it is a failure in our generation for failing to pass that along. families to model bat. students learn a lot more from what you do than what you say. we teach by precept that's important but it's even more important to teach by example. they have failed to have modeled

for them the kind of openness to other people as truth seekers. that they are going to need if we are to overcome this terrible polarization. >> i want to read a little bit about opinion piece jeffrey tucker wrote in the economic times for he said you would suppose a tenured professor at ivy league university will be perfectly positioned to tell the truth sec's at. maybe had to play the game and grad school and arduous climb to the ranks. now that he's finally arrived he is free, right? wrong. the fall from the top of the profession straight to the bottom. he writes about this fear that even tenured professors have now being canceled if they say the wrong thing. >> is no question in a climate fear, intimidation has descended on our institutions our intellectual institutions, our business institutions our

cultural institutions. this reinforces a natural human tendency that cornel just mentioned a people to be conformist, to be group thinkers. we are not going to get inward toward reforming these institution are overcoming this problem unless there are some people who are willing to exercise the virtue of courage and a model that courage for other people, especially for young people. the good news is courage is contagious. the bad news is cowardice is contagious, isn't it, cornel? when people are seen being cowardly that also sends a signal. that is contagious too. but what upsets people want to say i'm going to sit now, is nobody has a permission slip not to be courageous but that's not to say i don't understand the fear, i do understand the fear. it's not to say the fears unwarranted, the fears totally warranted priests not to say there will be no casualties that no one will lose a job, an academic appointment, a career

opportunity, and educational opportunity and integrate struggle any cause excluding for educational freedom and integrity there will be victims. but this much i know, it will have nothing but victims unless somebody is willing to step up and exemplify some courage here. so i say to suit my students and particularly graduates of those who aspire whose vocation is truth seeking, begin now, not later. don't wait until you get a job. don't wait to get tenured don't wait to get to full professor don't wait to get the department chair don't wait to become dean of the college are present at the university. we'll be too late will be retired or never x of phi or example by the bravery. we need it now, begin now. no guarantee won't be a victim. but you will have your own integrity intact. shannon: what has been the area where you two may be disagree the most? whether it's religion, race, politics and how did you navigate it? >> part is just being christian.

we wrestle over the scope of the market much more of the revolutionary christian come open to democratic socialist concerns i think the poor and working-class ought to be central no matter where they are, no matter what colors or gender orientation my dear brother has a deep commitment to eliminating poverty to more marketed oriented strategies. we are concerned about the least of these in the sense of the poor in that way. we struggle over abortion which is a very, very, very real my dear brother police and the least of these being the unborn freight i have a disagreement and when that precious little something something become a precious little baby? he believes it's a very precious baby from the very beginning identifies a moral compassion for the unborn if you believe unborn is in fact a person immediately. but i believe the fact it's also a matter of women having some control over their bodies on one hand but also the fact i'm just not convinced that immediately that baby is a baby. we will not go into all of that sides of that discussion.

we have a certain similar empathy for the least of these which comes out of our own biblical sensibilities that we have as christians. >> did you agree? >> yes, i do. we have some very deep fundamental agreements but often our disagreements, very important disagreements are about how to get where we agree we need to go. how do we lift the poor out of poverty? i look at the record of socialist systems i say it not good for poor people. >> and the eggs actual that in trooper capitalism so far it is not been able to eliminate poverty either. we've got to be able to find ways of keeping the focus on the dignity of poor people. >> you notice in both of us avoid ending up in extreme positions on these issues. space. shannon: 's lot of impasse on capitol hill. any advice to folks who might seem at the talking past each

other? >> there is too much self righteousness and arrogance on both sides. it is so easy to keep track of the corruption in the republican party and i'm not saying a word about the corruption in the democratic party. the problem is the crisis is more acute, it is more intensive. we are reaching a point of impasse. the very possibility of democracy could be called into question but that is what we are dealing with at the moment. and that is a matter of both parties. need to be willing to learn from each other but that means genuinely listening to each other. deepened my understanding by understanding why a person as intelligent as i am as every well informed as i mess a well intentioned as i hope i am, would nevertheless reach a different conclusion for. >> i love the description you gave you found a way to joyfully disagree with each other. so gentlemen, make your example beta for the rest of us and influence of conversations we have in our lives as well but thank you both very much. >> thank you very much. >> god bless you shannon.

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may we all take time to reflect on the legacy of martin luther king junior this weekend and the days ahead. have a great week. we will see you back here for

next fox news sunday. ♪ ♪ the border crisis stretching from border towns all the way to the big apple. taking a live at live drone pictures where thousands of migrants cross over into the united states every single week. now new york city mayor is in el paso texas today where he is getting a firsthand look at the ongoing situation there. new york is that its breaking point as record number