that balloon out of the sky off south carolina around 90 minutes away. fox news cameras captured it all unfolding live. the pentagon is saying it was a one air to a air missile fired by an f-22 at 58,000 feet. now the operation is underway to try to recover its surveillance debris. hello, everyone, i'm mike emmanuel in today for eric shawn. hello, arthel. arthel: hello, michael hello, everybody, i'm arthel neville. in advance of the military action, the faa closed the air space above north and south carolina, calling the agency a way to support -- effort a way to support the pentagon. general jack keane watched it happen along with us right here on fox news. >> we weren't able to deter it, and most everything that the ukrainians -- arthel: general keane, excuse me, i'm not sure -- pardon me,

general keane, i'm not sure if you can see this, but we have a live shot now of this balloon going down. this balloon has been taken dow- >> oh, that's great. arthel: it is now i falling from the sky there over surfside beach, south carolina. so your reaction to this, sir. >> i'm watching it. well, first of all, well done. congrats to the military for being able to do that. arthel: very dramatic, indeed. lucas tomlinson is live at the white house with the very latest. lucas. >> reporter: we've just learned from this background call with pentagon officials that it was an f-22 fighter jet flying out of langley air force base, that's near virginia beach, that shot down this chinese spy balloon using a single sidewinder missile, a heat-seeking missile. some questions if there was enough heat signature off this chinese apparatus to be able to shoot it down with a sidewinder. but i digress.

the shot-down happened at 2:39 eastern time off the coast of south carolina. very notable, it was just offshore about 6 nautical miles. why is that important? we learned from president biden and from defense secretary lloyd austin that this needed to be shot down within u.s. territorial waters. that is because they did not want to shoot it down in international air space, international waters and also because you didn't want to shoot it down too far offshore, then this debris would be down at the bottom of the ocean. right now officials say it's the debris from this chinese spy balloon is in about 47 feet of water. it's a lot easier to salvage things at 47 feet than 200 feet or 500 feet, of course, arthel. so right now the u.s. navy sending a a salvage stress is el, the u.s. coast forward as well sending their vessels to aid in this recovery. it is notable also where it was shot down, what altitude. that u.s. air force f-22 fighter jet shot down this at 58,000 feet. for days the pentagon's been

telling us that u.s. fighter jets couldn't go that high. we know open source reporting don't have to be realize in or have classified documents that u.s. fighter jets can fly at 58,000 feet, and that's where this shot-down took place. let me see if i'm missing anything else from this background briefing. no. that's where we are right now, a single u.s. air force f-22 fighter jet in southeast virginia shot down in the chinese spy balloon off the coast of south carolina 6 miles offshore to aid in the recovery and also to shoot it down within u.s. territory because this was a chinese asset spying on the united states. it was important to president biden and his defense secretary that it must be shot down within territory, and that's what happened this afternoon, about an hour ago, arthel. arthel: hats off to our awesome fighter jet pilots. lucas tomlinson, thank you very much. mike? mike: arthel, the world -- including our allies and adversaries -- watched live here on fox news as that chinese spy

balloon slowly drifted down into the atlantic off south carolina after a u.s. military jet took it out with a single shot. what will this mean for already tense relations with beijing? ryan chilcote has more on that. hello, ryan. >> reporter: yeah, hi, mike. well, no reaction yet from china on the downing of their balloon. it's 5 a.m., gone 5 a.m. in beijing. what they have been talking about, and this was several hours before the downing of that balloon, was that the u.s. couldn't cancel secretary blinken's visit because, as they put it, neither of the sides had formally announced that the visit was going to happen in the first place. so officially, you know, semantics here, but basically saying, you know, you can't cancel something that isn't officially on. the foreign ministry putting out a statement early saturday, again, several hours ago before the downing, saying that in actuality the u.s. and china

have never announced any visit. the u.s. making any such announcement is their own business, and we respect that. but china also today asked the united states to respect it and not to smear china. you'll recall that china in their very first reaction to the incident, to this balloon moving into u.s. air space said it regretted that the balloon had unintentionally entered air space. china also repeated their claim saturday that this was, is a weather balloon,, that they had little control over it and that it was not for spying. now, secretary blinken was set to arrive in beijing sunday. obviously, that's not going to happen. it would have been the first high-level meeting since china's president xi and president biden sat down back in november, agreed on blinken's visit then and promised to avoid conflict. outside the official communications, mike, i've got to tell you, you can also hear chinese experts saying, again, while claiming the balloon wasn't for spying, american

surveillance of china is much more aggressive. and importantly, again, mike, no reaction yet from china on the downing of their balloon. it's just turned 5 a.m. in beijing. we'll obviously be watching for any official statements from beijing as the evening goes on. mike? mike: ryan chilcote on the diplomat diplomatic fallout on this incident. many thanks. arthel: a chinese spy balloon obviously straining an already tense relationship. joining us now, gordon chang, senior fellow at the gatestone institute and author of two the book, "the coming collapse of china," "and the great u.s.-china tech war.." boy, i bet you have a lot to say. what is china up to? why did they float this i humongous balloon other our air space, and do they care that it was shot down? >> well, they certainly care that it was shot down because that is a humiliation of china,

at least in chinese eyesment -- eyes. the why is a great question, and we don't know that. but there are two general theories. one of them is that these two balloons, one that intruded into the united states that was just shot down, the other in latin america, possibly a third one near canada. this was all part of a coordinated campaign by xi jinping, the chinese ruler, and everyone believes that to be counterproductive for chinese interests. so that really suggests trouble at the top of the communist party. the other theory, arthel, is that the chinese military was just doing this on its own, didn't have to coordinate with the rest of the chinese government or the communist party. and that is also worrisome because it means that there is disarray at the top of the chinese political system. right now we don't know which theory is correct, but neither of them is good. arthel: but do you, in your experience, do you expect that

the second theory can be possible, you know, that the chinese military can act on its own without these rubber t.a.r.p.ing of xi jinping? -- stamping of xi jinping? >> that's possible. and the reason is that the chinese military has become extremely powerful. xi jinping has given flag officers a lot of authority, and they have been actually putting their stamp on chinese diplomacy, quote-unquote. but they've also been taking larger and larger shares of the resources of the chinese central government. xi jinping needs their political support especially now when he's having so many problems at home. so, you know, the military could have just said, look, we're doing what we're doing, or they could have just told xi jinping we're doing this, and you have no say. that is not what most people think, but that's a possibility that we need to consider especially because there have been signs over the last 6-8 weeks of real problems at the top in beijing.

arthel: and i've also been reading about how the chinese military has become more aggressive in recent times. so i wanted to ask though if, even though you said, gordon, that this balloon having been shot down is an embarrassment and not the way the chinese would have wanted it to go, still, did they feel that they got away with it because they have the information. the information was being sent back to beijing in realtime. if they feel like they've gotten away with it, mission accomplished on a level, then what's next? >> yeah. and that really is a chilling prospect, because really what that means is that the chinese felt that they could get away with it, that they could intrude into american air space, surveil sensitive military facilities. and my theory is one thing they could be doing is trying to tell the world that the u.s. was incapable. they believe that no american leader can stand up to them. i don't believe that that assessment is correct, but it doesn't matter the correctness of the assessment.

arthel, what matters is that the chinese believe that because that will guide them in making decisions that could lead the world to conflict. so we've got to be worried about the mentality in china right now. especially the incentives that xi jinping is operating under. because i believe because he's in trouble the, he's got a very low threshold of risk which means he can take us by surprise. arthel: sounds like someone else, putin. what's the impact on our tenuous relationship then with china, good or bad? >> well, we're certainly going to have a tense relationship with china. as we all know, secretary blinken postponed his trip. i don't think that blinken should have gone in the first place because china is not now in a position to have good faith discussions with the u.s. and whenever that occurs -- and this is not just the biden administration, this is every administration before it going back to george h.w. bush.

we tried desperately to talk to the chinese even when it's inadvisable not to do so. china knows when not to talk. americans, unfortunately, don't have that skill. and so i do believe that this is now a time not to talk to china. i think that that will scare the bejesus out of a lot of people in beijing, and we really need to do that because the chinese say that we don't deter them. we need to reestablish deterrence, is and this is one wayed to do it, not talking. arthel: well, general keith kellogg, i was speaking to him a little bit ago, and he said actions speak louder than words, that -- and you're saying not to talk. so what is the action? what should the u.s. do now? >> i think the u.s. needs to start imposing costs on china for this blatant violation of our sovereignty. and that means more than just shooting down their balloon. i mean, it means cutting contacts with china. especially at a time when the chinese really need us, because their economy in reality is

contracting. and they've got so many problems right now. which is the reason why in a sense china is dangerous. if we look like we're too desperate to try to reestablish talks, china will just take advantage of that. and that really has been the history of our relations with beijing. yes, everything we do now, arthel, is dangerous because of decades of misguided china policy. every option going forward carries great risk. so we are on a world where we have very few or, actually, i think, no good scenarios. arthel: because what about the notion of keeping your enemies close? if you cut off diplomatic discussions, then you don't know what they're up to,king what they're thinking. >> we know what they're thinking. and the problem is, yes, what you said sounds like it should make sense, and that has guided american policy for decades. but it's created this situation which is obviously disadvantageous. what we have done is we have fed

the arrogance of chinese leaders. it was already, you know, had already inflate notions of their self-importance, and this was making them extremely dangerous. reestablishing deterrence is very, very risky, but the chinese for more than two years now have been saying that the united states no longer deters china. and we we need to take them at their words, and we need to start establishing that deterrence. especially after the problems of the catastrophic withdrawal from afghanistan. this has been not a very good relationship with beijing. arthel: and now they, they did it. this chinese spy balloon traveled across the united states. to be shot down in the end, but it collected information along the way, information and intelligence that was transmitted to beijing in realtime. so does this bolster china's bad actions? >> well, we had to shoot it down, but it should have been

shot down the first time it entered u.s. air space which was in alaska. which was about a week ago. if. [audio difficulty] oh, you know, okay, the u.s. is willing to shoot it down, but they know that we should have shot it down earlier. this is what they would have done, what the russians would have done. arthel: that's what i'm saying. >> the fact that we allowed it to travel over a thousand miles -- excuse me? arthel: yeah, that's what i'm saying. so does this bolster their bad actions? one step, two steps, they'll do something more, they'll keep pushing the u.s.? >> yeah. i think that on balance we have not helped ourselves. it's good that we finally shot it down, but we should have shot it down a lot earlier. the chinese know that, and the russians know that as well because they're looking very, very closely at the way we deal not only with china, but iran, north korea, all the rest of it. all of these bad actors are now working together and so, therefore, they take lessons from what we do.

this was, this was not a disaster for the united states, but this is no great win either because, as you point out, they saw a lot of stuff over mall strom air force base in montana, perhaps whiteman in missouri and god knows what they saw after going past missouri. so this is not a good story. on balance, this is -- we did not acquit ourselves well. arthel: so if this band of bad actors is working inen concert -- in concert, how do we take control and direct this musical the way we need it to resonate with the world? >> we need to have a big win somewhere, because the chinese are watching ukraine, the russians are watching what just occurred. i believe that the best way to deter xi jinping over taiwan or india or japan or the philippines is to make sure that ukraine wins. yes, that's dangerous.

putin has threatened to use his nuclear weapons. but we've got to remember once putin thought that he was getting away with his new threats, both iran -- north korea and china started amping up their nuke threats. so these guys are working very closely together. and we shouldn't assume that this is just bluster. because russia has this doctrine of escalate to deescalate or escalate to win which means using nukes early in a conventional conflict. the north koreans saw it, they made a threat last year that they never made before which was to preemptively use their nuclear weapons. china threatened japan, australia, to nuke them, went after the rest of the world on march 10th with a threat from the people's liberation army. this is just crazy dangerous. arthel: it's craze i dangerous, and just this week president putin said, hey, don't -- referring to you know -- don't think this is just going to be a traditional war. he raised the specter of nuclear weapons again.

so i see the picture you're painting and, certainly, not at all to underestimate the power of the united states, but the united states is up against it. so how, what is the response? there's a lot going on. >> yeah. well, the ukraine war should have never started because the u.s., the european union and great britain with had an economy 25.1 times larger than russia's in 2021, the year before the attack. and so this war just, was just a failure of detenderness which means once deterrence fails, it can fail everywhere which means we're going to have conflicts perhaps at both ends of the eurasian land mass and perhaps in north africa before. we are going to be stretched like we've never been stretched since the second world war, and this is not something that we can control right now because the bad actors are driving events, not the united states and friends and partners. we're just on the defensive reacting to what they're doing.

it is moscow and beijing that are determining what's going on in this world, and that's the reason why this world does not look very good at this moment. arthel: but can we count on our friends and partners? >> yes, we can, i think. because our friends and partners are becoming scared themselves. so, for instance, secretary of defense lloyd austin was just in the philippines where he signed up a deal for increased u.s. access to the especially forward bases. he was in south korea before that shoring up our alliance there. we know that australia has signed up and is volunteering and helping, and even india with where we've always had a difficult relationship is concerned because in december there was a large chinese incursion high in the himalayas, and that reminded india once again that they need the rest of democracies to help them. so, yes, our allies and friends and partners are asking for our

help because the 202 area code is what they call when the chinese come knocking on them. arthel: okay. they're calling 202, but we want to make sure that 202 can call their country codes. gordon chang, we have to leave it there. thank you, always. appreciate your analysis. see you again very soon. thank you, gordon chang. mike? mike: fox news caught it live more than 90 minutes ago, 2:39 p.m. eastern time. the united states shooting down that chinese spy balloon, an f-22 from langley air force base taking out the balloon off the atlantic coast just off south carolina. much more on this next.

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mike: the united states military shooting down that chinese spy balloon a little more than 90 minutes ago, fox news capturing it live. officials now trying to recover the surveillance debris from the waters from the atlantic, christian whiton, a former state department official, joins us now live. christian, welcome back. your thoughts based on the news we've heard over the last few minutes in terms of it being one shot from an f-22 from langley air force base and where we go from here. >> well, it's an impressive

shot. i'm trying to think, that may actually be the first combat usage of the f-22. it's, you know, a plane we don't have a lot of, they're fantastic and very happy the air force was able to do and hopefully we can recover this. it's so bizarre for the chinese to have done this. you know, if you fly over another country in space, that's considered no big deal, the united states set that standard with our early surveillance satellites, the corona project which imaged the soviet unibegun and -- union and deorbited film before it hit to ocean. you have this bizarre act of the chinese, putting something within the atmosphere that was somewhat easily observable. maybe they thought it wouldn't be, but norad certainly proved them wrong, the u.s. and the canadians cooperating. being able to take a look at the equipment and to try and at least guess what was transmitted back to china will provide some useful information on why the chinese did this, why they did it right before our secretary of state was going to head over and engage in diplomacy. a lot of strange parts to in

that might be made a little less strange. mike: we're starting to get some reaction from senior lawmakers on capitol hill. senator susan collins, republican of maine, who is a member of the intelligence committee saying just moments ago, quote: china's brazen deployment of a spy balloon to surveil some of our most sensitive military assets required a forceful response by our government. i support the decision to shoot down the balloon, but it should have been taken out earlier over remote areas of alaska or montana. good job by our talented military. your thoughts on that statement from senator collins. >> you know, it sounds like, as usual, members of congress are trying to sound tough on china. i'm all for that, but i just have real doubts as to what would be achieved by taking this down earlier and potentially pitting u.s. or canadian -- putting u.s. or canadian citizens at risk. there just isn't a lot that you can get that probably isn't

gotten on an hourly basis by chinese or russian satellites, to talk about the other adversary there. you know, i'd much prefer or that china -- excuse me, that the congress got serious about a policy and a military that can deter chinese activity. so we're not caught just reacting to this, that we actually look -- you know, people have talked about sending the reagan based in san diego, a carrier and huertasing force to china -- and her task force. you're not going to war with asia on one -- with one carrier task force. to deter that, we need a much larger presence. we need to take advantage of japan and look at taiwan and increasing significantly their ability to defend themselves which, you know, might make it possible we would never have to fight china. mike: some are questioning why not take it out sooner. a senior u.s. defense official answering questions from pentagon reporters says there was not a water shot opportunity

after it entered alaskan air space january 28th. when asked why the u.s. military did not shoot down the balloon after it entered alaska, the senior military official says the balloon then crossed over canada, entering idaho january 31st. so your thought on that timeline that we're hearing. >> yeah. and that's consistent with what the president said earlier, that he'd been made aware of this, that he gave the order to shoot it down on wednesday and they waited. i think it's fine to wait. you know, if you want to sound tough on china, china's not going to make a big change in its conduct based on whether this was shot down earlier or later. presumably, this was not just recording information, it was transmitting incriminated information, so whatever it collected, did make its way to beijing. that wouldn't have happened if it were shot down earlier. but i again would say that's probably not a lot of qualitative intelligence that was supplied to beijing during that period that they couldn't get from other imaging and other

satellites or from their extensive network of human intelligence that exists in the united states. unfortunately. so probably not a big difference. and alaska, huge parts of it are not particularly tense hi populated, that's true of canada, also true of the northern u.s., but, you know, just not understanding exactly where this will impact probably, you know, the military made a good decision to play it safe. mike: christian, this is obviously a provocative act. do to you imagine at senior levels of our united states government they're discussing potential provocative responses? >> i -- yeah, i don't think so they're going to react more. i think they consider this a provocative response, and i'm worried they think this lets them off the hook for a tougher policy on china overall. there are people in the administration, the administration is not monolithic and, frankly, the president himself has said some pretty tough things on taiwan at least three times. he says the united states would defend taiwan, and all three

times he's been walked back by his own officials. i hope that this gives an up upper hand to people in the administration and the new republican majority in the house, i hope this gives momentum to get a more serious china policy and to explain that to the american people, which they haven't done. mike e mike you make an interesting point because, of course, there is an american policy, but there are lots of discussions behind the scenes where people have all different types of opinions, right in. >> that's right. yeah, any administration including the bush and trump administrations, any administration you have different factions, ask and within the biden administration you have the john kerry faction that wants to engage, wants to talk about climate and supply chain and confidence building, and you have the people who actually do see, there's great bipartisan agreement on the hill, just not a lot of coherent action, people who understand that china is our foremost threat and the one nation that could end the united states of america and the need for a different policy, ideally one that involves economic decoupling, not just military

deterrence. mike: christian whiton, former or administration official in the trump white house, thank you. arthel: a single shot took that balloon down at 2:39 eastern. stay with us for adopting coverage. for continuing coverage. , in cuz you paid too much for those glasses. next time, go to america's best where two pairs and a free, quality eye exam start at just $79.95. book an exam today at americasbest.com. ♪ i just always thought, “dog food is dog food” i didn't really piece together that dogs eat food. as soon as we brought the farmer's dog in, her skin was better, she was more active. if i can invest in her health and be proactive, i think it's worth it. visit betterforthem.com

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some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. arthel: fox cameras capturing the moment a fighter jet coined -- downed that chinese spy balloon over the atlantic ocean. lucas tomlinson live at the white house and, lucas, that f-22 flew straight the out of langley, right? >> reporter: that's right, arthel. a background briefing between

senior defense officials and reporters just wrapped. they said a single u.s. air force f-22 flying out of langley shot down that chinese spy plane firing a sidewinder missile, just one shot, one kill, so to speak. and it was blown out of the sky about 6 miles off the coast of south carolina. that debris field some 7 miles long in just 47 feet of water. a u.s. navy salvage teams are enroute, the u.s. coast coast guard as well to start recovering some of the effects. now, the pentagon also saying that chinese spy balloon was shot down at 58,000 feet, about the same height the jets were flying, and president biden spoke a short time ago to reporters. this is what he said. >> on wednesday when i was briefed on the balloon, i ordered the pentagon to shoot it down on wednesday as soon as possible. they decided without doing damage to anyone on the ground, they decided that the best time

to do that was when it got over water outside of, within the 12-mile limit. they successfully took it down, and i want to compliment our aviators who did it, and we'll have more to report on this a little later. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> what's your message to china? >> you were saying the recommendation from your, was from your national -- >> i told them to shoot it down. >> onen wednesday. >> on wednesday. >> but the recommendation -- >> they said to me, let's wait for the safest place to do it. >> reporter: we learned there, arthel, the president said shoot it down starting on wednesday when it's safe to do so. this is exclusive video from our fox news team there in surfside beach, south carolina, just south of myrtle beach, showing the moment that that side wieppedder missile from the f-22 out of langley shot down the chinese spy balloon 6 miles offshore. we're also learning defense secretary lloyd austin putting out a statement about this successful shootdown saying,

quote, u.s. military commanders have determined downing the balloon while over land posed anen due risk due to the size and altitude of the balloon and likely heavy payload. the department of defense developed options to take down the balloon safely over our territorial waters while closely monitoring its path and intelligence collection activities. this action was done in coordination and with the full support of the canadian government, and we thank canada for its contribution in tracking and analysis of the balloon through norad as it transited north america. today's deliberate and lawful action demonstrates that president biden and his national security team will always put the safety and security of the american people first while responding effectively to the prc's unacceptable violation of our softenty. prc, obviously, an acronym for the chinese government there, arthel. it's notable from that statement from lloyd austin and from president biden how important it was to them, to the pentagon and the white house, that this spy balloon be shot down over u.s.

territory. that's why they wanted it shot down within u.s. territorial waters. those extend 12 nautical miles from land, about 14 regular miles. it was important to shoot this down within u.s. territory. of course, if it had occurred in international air space, certainly you'd hear a lot more from china. the fact that this was shot down over u.s. territorial waters and its air space very critical to this story, arthel. arthel: very critical and done with a single shot. lucas tomlinson, thank you. mike? mike: arthel, the world watched live as fox news cameras captured the moment a u.s. missile shot down the chinese spy balloon. general jack keane, our fox news senior strategic analyst, watched it all happen along with arthel at 2:39 p.m. eastern time. >> we weren't able to deter it, and most everything that the ukrainians -- arthel: general keane, general keane, excuse me. i'm not sure -- pardon me, general keane. again i interrupt you because

i'm not sure if you can see this, but we have a live shot now of this balloon going down. this balloon -- >> oh, that's great. arthel: -- it is now falling from the sky there over surfside beach, south carolina. so your reaction to this, sir. >> okay, i'm watching it. well, first of all, well done. congrats to the military for being able too old that. to do that. e who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uhhhh... here, i'll take that. [woo hoo!] ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar and nutrients for immune health. this week is your chance to try any - subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. free monsters, free bosses, any footlong for free! this guy loves a great offer. so let's see some hustle!

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mike: fox capturing the moment the united states shot down the spy balloon over the atlantic ocean. back with more reaction, gordon chang, a senior fellow at the gatestone institute and author of "the coming collapse of china" and the great u.s.-china tech war. gordon, great to have you. >> oh, thank you so much. mike: when you're dealing with an adversary like beijing, you wonder what their reaction will be to an action like this. your thoughts on that. >> yeah.

that's a really important question, because just as china saw saw our reaction to their balloon and not only the military's reaction, but also the effective public opinion on the biden administration, now it's our turn to observe because we're going to see how the chinese react, how quickly a statement comes out, who gives the statement. if we go back to the april 2001hainan plane incident from a chinese fighter clipped a u.s. navy reconnaissance plane, we saw china not being able to react. it took them days to do so. now we're going to see how fast china reacts. and so i don't know what the answer to that is, but we will have some very important clues, because right now beijing is very opaque, much more opaque than it's been in a very long time k. and so this is going to be a great window into how they operate. mike: are you surprised at all that they claimed this was just some weather balloon that kind of drifted off over, basically,

the united states of america? >> they had to say that because if they didn't, they would say, well, we can violate your sovereignty, and we don't care, which is the way chinese officials actually think, but they're not going to say that in public. so they're trying, i think, to divide american public opinion by saying, well, this was no big deal. and we have seen a number of narratives from americans supporting china which is an indication how china interacts with american public opinion. also very important to study. mike: does the united states need to do something provocative in response like flying something into their air space and seeing how they like it or some other action? of. [laughter] >> no. we shouldn't do that. but i think we do need to impose some costs beyond just shooting down the balloon. and those could be all sorts of things such as severing, cutting off consulates, closing them

off. secretary pompeo did that in july 2021 with houston. we could do that someplace else, or we can impose more trade measures. there's a whole range of things. and right now because china needs the u.s., its economy is, in effect, contracting even though they say it's growing. i don't think that it is. china really needs a lot of foreign money right now, and president biden can turn that off by using his powers under the international emergency economic powers act of 1977. so there's a lot of non-kinetic things that we can and should be doing. mike: do you think the regime there in beijing is pleased that the united states didn't take it out until after it passed through the united states, you know continue innocent -- continent, basically? >> i think they're happy about that because they got a lot of intelligence that they can't get from their satellites. remember, this balloon was just 60,000 feet.

a satellite in low earth orbit is going to be, has to be in space which means it's about 400,000 feet minimum. so there's a lot that china learned from this. but also they saw that we did not take it out when it first entered our air space, which was about a week ago in alaska. and it traversed uninhabited territory where we could have easily shot it down and not affected anybody or put anyone in jeopardy on the ground. and the same goes for canada. once it left alaska it went through canada, also sparsely and in uninhabited areas. we could have taken it down there as well. mike: you're the expert. how bad are u.s.-chinese relations right now? >> well, they're certainly going to get tense the, but i think that they need to get tense because of what china's been doing. and it's not just the balloon. across a whole range of areas china's become much more belligerent, and i believe that china is not in a position to deal in good faith with the

united states or, for that matter, with most of our partners. so i believe we should not be talking to china at this particular time. the chinese are very good at using dialogue to get us to do things. we should be doing the same thing with the chinese. especially because right now they need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. mike: if the united states had not shot down the balloon, just said let it go, how weak would the chinese have seen that? >> that would have really been catastrophic, i think. and it's not just the chinese, it would have been russia as well and iran and north korea, their proxies. because all of the -- excuse me. all of these bad actors are working together and in coordination, and they take their cues from each other which really means at this particular time we have good policy with regard to one of them. it will have beneficial effects with regard to the others and vice versa is also true.

mike: gordon chang, we'll let you get some water. thank you for your time, great to have your analysis today. >> thank you so much. mike: arthel? arthel: thanks, gordon. all right, mike. you saw american military aircraft shoot down that chinesn fox. we will have more reaction from capitol hill after this break. ay mind about these glasses. yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. anything else i can help you with? it's simple. like what? visionworks. see the difference.

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arthel: well, about two hours ago fox cameras captured the moment the chinese spy balloon was shot down the from the sky off south carolina, and we're getting some reaction from capitol hill. florida congressman and former green beret mike waltz is joining us on the phone and, congressman, you're also former white house and pentagon adviser. put on all those hats and give us your reaction. >> well, arthel, i think we have a heck of a lot of questions from a congressional oversight standpoint. i sit on both the armed services and the intelligence committees. my first question is on the risk analysis on shooting or not shooting this spy balloon down. obviously, the pentagon made a recommendation that it wasn't

worth even over rural montana which has roughly a population density of about 35 people evere mile, but if the debris field as they modeled it out was going to be several square miles, then it wasn't worth risking those american lives for what they thought the chinese were getting. so we want to know what did they get in terms of intelligence value, what were we able to even potentially jam or obfuscate, and then why was action not taken when we saw this crossing the pacific, when we saw it crossing our air space in the aleutian islands in alaska? why did we deal with this on the back end, at the back door rather than the front door? and finally, arthel, there's the military sites and the equation that could have ended that decision, but then there's the messaging, the war of ideas, the propaganda value. and the chinese communist party are now thumping their chest

saying we can penetrate, we can send things across the united states without consequences. that's not necessarily on the military, that's a political leadership decision. and we want to understand how that was laid out and why we didn't take this thing down before it entered the united states and violate our sovereignty. arthel: yeah. and your former congressman said that china is embarrassed that we did shoot it down. however, to your point, maybe they are, but they've already accomplished what they tended -- intended to. they collected a last of data. we don't know exactly what they collected -- >> right. arthel: -- and it was streamed to beijing in realtime. also christian whiton points out that the data that was collected may not be much more than what was collected on a normal basis from chinese spy satellites. what do you think? >> well, the difference in the spy satellites is, you know, they are moving -- [laughter] incredibly fast, and they pass

over the united states very quickly. this, obviously, was able to loiter for days. so what it's able to suck up in terms of imagery, signals and other types of intelligence is what we'll be looking to understand in a classified briefing. and then also what is it a able to transmitt back to -- transmit back to beijing realtime, or were we successfully able to jam it and then take it down. so those are the questions that are outstanding, but this is, this was just an incredible moment. the entire nation, the entire world was watching, and i want to understand what the white house was thinking on not taking this down as soon as it crossed into alaska. arthel: congressman, two quick questions for you. when -- how soon do you think you'll get answers to your multiple questions, and also what do we do now? what's the next move on the part

of the u.s. stevenically, messaging? -- strategically, messaging? all the rest. >> well, i would expect some classified briefings in this coming week when the house is in session, and i have asked that, and i would expect our leadership -- i understand speaker mccarthy has as well. and the american people deserve answers. number one. and then, number two the, i am glad secretary of state blinken canceled his trip. the chinese need to understand that there are repercussions. i don't think we sent that message by not shooting it down up front, but i'm glad we did at least on on the back en. and what we can't be doing -- back end. and what we can't be doing, arthel, is making these national security concessions because a big part of the administration believes that climate is the most dangerous threat. the chinese know that we believe that, and they are using that as leverage to get all kinds of

concessions in the national security space. so we have to be -- arthel: clarify that one for me. >> yeah. arthel: clarify what you mean by that, i'm confused. >> well, you have, you have a kiss corps adapt china policy. on the one hand, you have a national security strategy from the administration that says china is the greatest military, economic, diplomatic threat that we face, but on the other hand, another part of the administration says, no, no, that is, that really needs -- those threats need to fall to the wayside. we have to be able to work with the9 chinese on the true and greatest threat, the climate. and since china is the greatest carbon i mitter, then -- emitter, then we have to work with them and cooperate with them to get some concessions from them on their carbon emissions. those two things are butting heads, aren't adding up, and at the end of the day we make national security concessions

when we should be taking a much harder line on a number of spaces because we hope to get their cooperation on climate. arthel: well, national security is number one, of course, and it certainly is a conundrum to have the deal -- to have to deal with the enemy. congressman, thank you very much, congressman waltz, for joining us this afternoon on this important and really outstanding and captivating, i should say, coverage of this breaking story that we've had here today. thank you very much for joining us, congressman. >> all right. thank you, arthel. take care. mike, well, it was really fascinating. it was fly by the seat of the pants coverage, but it was just so impressive on multiple levels not to -- first of all, the most impressive was our military, the f-22 fighter pilot who shot that thing down with a single shot. i mean, my goodness, we are awesome in that regard, for sure. mike: 2:39 eastern time, live on the air we had the shot, and you

quickly called it, arthel. you respondented it and reported it -- spotted it and reported it real eau -- realtime. amazing when we're able to show our viewers or in realtime what's happening. arthel: thank you very much. "the big saturday show" is up next. we will be back tomorrow at noon eastern. please join us then. hello everyone along with tammy bruce, lisa booth and david welcome to "the big saturday show". the big story tonight. fox news alert u.s. military fighter jack shoots down a chinese spy balloon just as across south carolina into the electric ocean. also tonight flight arriving and departing for airports in the carolinas but president biden just revealed to give the military the order to shoot down