from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. >> sandra: the search for the payload hitting the jackpot. recovery mission for the chinese spyship locating a section of surveillance equipment as big as a bus. >> john: the pentagon set to brief reporters on the discovery very soon. the first briefing since we learned alarming details about the ability to scoop up american secrets and some of the balloon parts may have been made in the west. >> sandra: and who better to react to that news from the pentagon than a former defense secretary, mark esper will be

joining us live. but first, this fox news alert. two interviews and a primetime speech, but a week of talk from president biden only serving to raise new questions. one was about the chinese surveillance craft. the president brushing off its significance and risk after it loitered across the nation just last week. >> john: president biden claiming the violation of u.s. air space was not a major breach of national security, yet it traveled thousands of miles over some military sites and collected information from the ground to above. and capable of collecting communications and sending them straight back to china. >> sandra: a far cry to portray it as no big deal, just a balloon. a lot to unpack as "america reports" rolls into a second hour here. another busy news afternoon on a friday. sandra smith in new york.

great to be with you. >> john: john roberts in washington, good to be with you, sandra. the president getting attention for trying to downplay the classified document scandal calling the records nothing more than "stray papers" and saying they are from decades ago, kind of problematic. and putting the blame on staffers for not being careful as they packed up his office and shipped it to his house. mark, a lot going on there today. >> a lot going on, a busy friday. good afternoon to both of you. the president is facing fresh questions how the u.s. may respond to china after the spycraft was shot down off the carolina coast. and how the white house long-term national security will play out, and a bipartisan uproar on the hill about the entire incident. the president likely going to face questions with reporters in the room later on, also a white house briefing due to get started any minute. reporters are likely to ask about what the president had to

say when he spoke to telemundo on thursday. >> it's not a breach. look, it's totally, it's a violation of international law, it's our air space, and once it comes in our air space we can do what we want with it. >> officials have learned a lot about the spycraft in recent days. size of a regional jet and multiple antennas capable of collecting sensitive communications. the white house seems like it's eager to move on, lawmakers keeping it front and center. the house voting, approving a resolution to condemn china's action. the chinese believes congress is dramatizing the whole thing. and see if the white house may have new reaction of the classified documents found in the president's wilmington home and here in d.c., in wisconsin on wednesday he sat down with pbs, and said some documents date back to the 1970s and it's

possible the people packing the office may be to blame for the way the documents were handled. so a lot of different questions. the briefing probably a little shorter, the president of brazil coming to the white house this afternoon. should get started any moment now. >> sandra: the president and his team are shrugging off everything from low poll numbers and concerns over a 2024 biden run to the chinese spycraft and biden's handling of the classified documents. our next guest just met with the president this morning for the governor's reception. so, how does he see all of this? new hampshire republican governor, thank you very much for joining us, governor. good to have you here. good to have you back, i should say. so, first off, what was your take away from the meet there? >> it was quite productive. i don't know if people understand when you get republican and democrat governors together we get a lot done, we see eye-to-eye on a lot of things.

it's our job to manage, to keep the trains running on time. might disagree on policy here and there but 24/7 accountability so it was a good discussion. also among ourselves and not just to the president and vice president but staff. >> john: so many things the president is facing, among them an investigation by congress into whether or not there was influence peddling by his son and by virtue of that, the president himself when he was the vice president. what biden said about is that in an interview with judy on pbs. >> public is not going to pay attention to that, they want these guys to do something. the only thing they can do is make up things with my family -- >> john: he is saying the public is not concerned about that. survey says, potential irs bias, 71% said yes, 70% said we should be investigating biden and

documents, covid origins, afghanistan withdrawal, people think it's important to look into. >> it's not just 1 or 2 issues, it's the concept of transparency, and transparency is the foundation of public trust, especially when you are in office and especially when, you know, accountability stops with you. whether it's the president or the governor, and people just want the truth. they can handle the bad news, they want to hear some of the good news, they want to hear what's working and what isn't and they want to know the government is being responsive to these things and nimble, flexible. we do that in new hampshire, the live or die state, it's all about limited government, local control, balanced budgets, washington does not understand what that means, but all things that states do well. blocking and tackling of good government. i say it all the time, it's not our money, it's your money, and

no greater responsibility than managing other people's money. let's have that sense of accountability, the transparency and rebuild that public trust back. >> sandra: governor, reading directly from the a.p. write-up, asking the question biden 2024, reads a majority of democrats now think one term is plenty for joe biden despite his insistence that he plans to seek re-election in 2024. you want him to run? >> i don't care who runs, but a lot of people are going to run, i can tell you that. the problem he's made, he's tried to take the first of the nation primary from new hampshire. we are still going to hold it, we are not beholden to the democratic party, others can step up and get earned attention, political momentum if you will and make a run at the presidency in a primary structure. so it was poorly thought out plan by joe biden to try to take it from us. we are holding the first of the national primary, for republicans, the democrats will

step in. i just don't see democrats saying look, the first two years has not gone very well, we'll put up with another six. they are talking six more years from today, it's not something the left wing elites in washington are going to go quietly into the night with. >> john: drill down what you said a second ago, we just discussed it with kim reynolds as well. south carolina on february 3rd, new hampshire, nevada 6th, georgia 13th, michigan on the 27th. you are number 2 in terms of contests, but because south carolina is a primary now you are number 2 in terms of primaries, the state constitution says you've got to be number one. >> that is not the calendar. that's the democrat party hopeful calendar. that ain't happening. our primary will be in late january. >> john: what happens if they don't show up? >> what doesn't show up? >> john: the dnc and the candidates. >> who cares? the candidates will show up. they want the media attention.

in new hampshire, you have to look somebody in the eye, earn who they are as a person before you get to the policy, and that's why the votes are earned in new hampshire, not just handed out because of big money and elite poll -- politicians. >> sandra: governor, wear waiting on the pentagon briefing after we are learning more about the chinese spy flight over the united states. were there some missteps there, how would you have handled anything with that differently? >> quick and decisive, no doubt there was a lot of opportunity to bring it down before it traveled across the country and into the ocean where where he hope to find all the pieces. you could have brought it down clearly. a matter of china poking at us, and they keep doing it. a couple different pokes,

whether it's tiktok or balloon or who knows what the next thing will be. they want to see our resolve, they want to see how divided we are, they know there could be an escalating opportunity with taiwan and again, they want to know if we'll have what it takes to respond quickly and decisively with a coalition, we are talking about doing with taiwan, we should do, they are something to be protected, to be sure. >> john: back to politics as we round this out. nikki haley we expect will be announcing on the 15th. when are you -- >> i don't know -- candidates don't have to make the decision for a long time and we are exploring the waters, having the conversations. look -- >> john: what's your thinking? >> i want the party bigger. i'm spending a lot of my time raising money to reach into the next generation of republican, 18 to 27-year-olds that should be strong republicans but are not with us but should be, we

believe in the core concepts of low government, local control, and we have to broaden the base. if you can't close the deal in november -- >> sandra: how do you close the deal, what do you think it's going to come down to, the next election? the biggest issue to your point to win over those younger republican voters? >> so you've got to be aspirational, inspirational, positive, you can't just spend your whole time saying i'm only going to yell at somebody and tell you how bad the other side is. we have to be more than that and we are. >> sandra: hold on a second, your piece in politico on posturing for president may be the line is i'm ranked the most fiscally conservative governor in the country, number one in personal freedoms. you say sorry, ron, you are number two. >> florida does a great job, i'm going to poke around for being the second best in personal freedoms. both states do a great job, without a doubt. without a doubt.

we all get along as candidates, we really do and i think we have to direct the conversation where it needs to be, and instead of where we think it should be, it's where the citizens want it to be, things that matter to them. this job is not about us, it's so much bigger than ourselves and directing that conversation maybe as potential candidates make each other a little better so at the end of the day we are getting the most conservative candidates that win in november of 24, get stuff done in 25. >> john: news flash, kim reynolds just beat him out as fiscally -- >> i'm number two. two of the most fiscally responsible governors are in washington, d.c. >> john: can you imagine that, and here in the studio. >> sandra: are you running or not? >> who knows? no, i -- i'm definitely thinking about it but that decision does not have to be made for quite a while. i think we want the party to get to a place where the

conversation is more what we can do, the big ideas. >> john: which way are you leaning? >> new hampshire first, that's where i lead, new hampshire first. >> sandra: i was going to say right. >> john: he's not going to give it up. >> sandra: governor, appreciate you coming on and thanks for the chat. >> john: please, no more 108 below days either, they are a little rough. fbi searching former vice president mike pence's home to see if there are more classified documents. he pledged full cooperation with the national archives and doj. they say the search was exhaustive, four sealed boxes that contained some classified information. today's search will last a total of several hours. and told pence's think tank in washington could be searched in coming days. he's in california visiting his daughter who just gave birth to his second grandchild. more details if we learn, if

anything, come from the search. >> sandra: still waiting on the pentagon briefing, we will get there as soon as it begins. a warning that two of our adversaries are teaming up on a weapons project that could lead to "more chaos, more mayhem and more deaths" so what are we doing to stop it? that reporting ahead. >> john: word the military has found the payload from china's spy flight. size of a school bus, and found it mostly intact. what secrets could that hold about what the chinese communist party was doing above our heads? we'll ask mark esper. >> in the future, i believe we need to take the balloon down, if it ever happens again, before it gets to alaska or the united states. it's happened too many times in the past, now we will be prepared. thing costs more: gas, groceries, cars. we all need cash in the bank to stay ahead. well here's great news for veterans who own a home.

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president lula to convey the united states unwavering support for democracy in brazil. they will have a packed agenda here today, discussing issues that are important to both of them, and as i said, to the region and to the world. that includes combatting climate change, stimulating economic development -- this meeting between the two countries. one more note before we jump into questions, and just an update on u.s. efforts to

respond and to help provide assistance to the people of turkey and syria in the wake of those devastating earthquakes. we are ramping up our assistance to these earthquakes that have now killed more than 20,000 people, turkey and syria, including that we know of at least eight american citizens. this is a terrible tragedy, obviously and our hearts continue to go out to all those impacted. we remain in close contact with our turkish allies at every level of government, including of course a phone call between president biden and president erdogan. united states will provide $85 million in life savings assistance to provide she will tory -- shelter, and aid. and an assistance and response team is on the ground and two most highly trained urban search and rescue teams are conducting

operations in support of turkish rescue efforts in one of the hardest hit areas inside the country. nearly 200 personnel combined between them, specialized equipment and canine support dogs as well. they have been able to expand their operational reach with the support of u.s. military blackhawk helicopters, and because of the extensive damage to roads and bridges, ground transportation, i think you can understand is pretty challenging. they'll continue to run airlift operations, transporting rescue personnel to sites they are most needed to conduct operations. the dart teams as we call them are looking at damages to buildings and infrastructure, 630 sites to date. in syria, humanitarian partners urgently scale the response efforts to reach people in need. that work has included chartered flights transporting medical

supplies and teams distributing hot meals and other food. as of this morning, united nations and its partners successfully completed its second cross border humanitarian convoy into northwest syria and one of our partners delivered 14 additional truckloads of supplies, now 20 trucks of critical medicines, food and water to people in need over two days. to underscore u.s. sanctions will not prevent or prohibit humanitarian assistance in syria, the department of treasury i think you saw issued a broad general license to provide additional authorizations for disaster relief to the syrian people. we were able to deliver humanitarian assistance without the general license but wanted to undercore the aid getting in so the treasury issued the license as well. it will be in effect for six months. humanitarian assistance is

delivered directly to the syrian people no matter where they live and we will do all we can to help those affected in the days, weeks and months ahead as required. >> why did the president decide to go to poland, what message he wants to deliver and is there any chance that he would visit ukraine during his visit to poland? and i have also one on president lula's visit. he said he wanted to create a group of countries, including china and india, to mediate peace between ukraine and russia. does the president support this effort? is this the right time for opening negotiations? >> there's a lot there. so look, on the trip, i don't have any other additional stops to speak to. karine announced the purpose of the trip, and that's to go to

poland and in karine's opening statement i think she answered your main question, he wants to talk about the importance of the international community resolve and unity in supporting ukraine for now going on a year. wouldn't it be great if the president did not have to make a trip around a one year anniversary of a war that shouldn't have started, and sadly that's where we are. and the international community resolve and to make it clear to the ukrainian people the united states will stand by them going forward. next weeks and months will be difficult and critical especially for the armed forces and the united states will stand by them. on your president of president duda and peace overtures -- >> oh, lula. i'm sorry. >> he wants to create a group of countries to negotiate peace in

ukraine and those group, would include china, india, maybe some other countries. >> certainly refer to president lula to speak to his ideas. i think in the aggregate, we all would like to see this war end today. we would like to see it end right now, in other words, without having to go to the negotiating table. that does not appear to be in the offing, as mr. putin just over the last 24 hours flew dozens more cruise missiles into civilian targets into ukraine, knocking out heat and power across the country. so absent that, we are going to have to stay at the task of supporting ukraine so it can succeed at the battlefield so that if and when president zelenskyy has determined it's time to negotiate, and sit down at the table to solve this diplomatically, he can do it with the wind at his back, he can do it with the strength he knows he's going to need in that negotiation. so it's really up to president

zelenskyy to determine if and when negotiations are appropriate and under what circumstances, as president biden has said countless times, nothing about ukraine with ukraine. >> on the trip to poland, we expect the president to make any kind of formal announcement as it pertains to maybe additional security aid, or mostly a symbolic show of support as you were talking about to the ukrainian people, the u.s.-polish alliance. >> i won't get ahead of the president's remarks, i'm not going to do that. the president will make it clear the united states will stand with ukraine as long as it takes. he will continue to call for the kind of international unity that we have seen, not just across nato, but across the world, not just across europe. and i think he will certainly make clear that additional security assistance, additional financial assistance, additional

help for ukraine will be coming from the united states. >> follow-up on the chinese spy balloon. the idea that president xi jinping may not have been aware of the order to send this balloon over u.s. soil, what would that tell you if that were true on his grip on his own government. is it possible it's a kind of power breakdown, is it surprising to the u.s.? >> we can't confirm those reports about president xi's personal knowledge of that, and i would refer you to the prc to speak to their own leadership issues and information sharing. what matters to us is that this was a violation of our sovereign air space, and clearly with intent. now, whose intent, i don't think we have a perfect picture of that right now. clearly without question the intent of the prc.

because we know that this balloon belonged to them. and president biden acted decisively. >> the u.s. officials briefing lawmakers told lawmakers this is the u.s. intelligence community's -- >> i'm not going to speak about intelligence assessments from the podium. >> thank you. admiral, there's been warnings from the ukrainians as well as intelligence agencies in europe and here that as the one-year mark of the war approaches, that might be a moment where putin tries to really escalate the conflict, maybe launch a major offensive. are you seeing any signs of that being in the works? >> what we see, jonathan, is that the russians continue to conduct offensive operations in the donbas area, pretty vicious, as we are talking, clearly over the last 12 hours he's willing to continue to barrage the country with cruise missiles, knocking out civilian infrastructure and trying to make life more difficult for the

ukrainian people and we believe he will try to take advantage of these winter months to re-stock, resupply, rearm, contribute to his man power in what could be offensive, renewed offensive operations come spring. but have we seen all that take shape now, i don't believe we are at a point we have seen all of that form. but we are anticipating that, and frankly so are the ukrainians. and that's one of the reasons why you have seen in just recent weeks the kinds of security assistance packages that -- from the united states, and from others, that are more advanced capabilities, the kinds of capabilities that will allow them to fight in open terrain, combined arms capabilities, armored capabilities, artillery, all of that is designed to help them prepare for whatever the russians might be planning in the spring. we do expect as the weather improves the fighting will probably get more vicious.

>> hi, john. i have more follow-ups on the lula visit as the assistance to turkey. can you speak to rumors there is another chinese balloon above alaska or any other parts of the u.s. territory the u.s. shot down? >> so i can confirm the department of defense was tracking a high altitude object over alaska air space in the last 24 hours. the object was flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet, and posed a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. out of abundance of caution and recommendation of the pentagon, president biden ordered the military to down the object and they did and it came -- inside our territorial waters, those waters right now are frozen, but inside territorial air space and over territorial waters. fighter aircraft assigned to u.s. northern command took down the object within the last hour,

ok. >> can i just follow up, john, and thank you for that. that's really helpful. can you give more details on the support to turkey, specifically the u.s.s. george h. w. bush is on stand by, any communications with ankara whether it will be a part of humanitarian efforts? >> i think i updated as much as i could. what we are doing is what i put in the opening statement. there are naval assets in the mediterranean and under the command of u.s. naval forces europe. commander of u.s. european command has designated the commander of u.s. naval forces europe in charge of the operational coordination for military assets, and he is doing that. i cannot speak to any specific contributions by the aircraft carrier u.s.s. george h. w. bush, but obviously there is lots of -- there's lots of capabilities in the

mediterranean region that could be brought to bear but we are working, and this is a really important point, we are working in lock step with our turkish counterparts to make sure what we are providing is what they need at the scale and the speed they need and not trying to overwhelm their system one needed material or unneeded capabilities. so you know, you talked about the bush, but there's a lot of military capability on the continent under the european commander's authority that could be used but again, we want to make sure we are doing this -- appropriately through turkish counterparts. >> visit by president lula, can you speak about -- >> she's still asking questions. >> i hear you, but -- i hear you. >> just the last question. just the last question. can you speak on how brazil can be a partner in monitoring irregular migration, specifically because brazil has been a route for africans coming to the u.s. through mexico.

>> as i said, i would -- >> john: we want to jump in for a second as the conversation moves on to the visits of president lula to the white house. sandra, some incredible breaking news a second ago, in the last hour the u.s. shot down another balloon, this one over territorial waters in alaska. >> sandra: undeed. mark esper's reaction to this in just a moment, john. just -- noting that as the news of the hour. so john kirby came out obviously talking about ukraine and other matters, but this just came from kirby a second ago, i think to many people's surprise we are not always given a head's up on what the news is going to be, but that is the news. the u.s. shot down another high altitude object he described over alaska. he's taking another question on that right now, john. dip back into the briefing room. >> the president directly involved in ordering this and is wreckage being recovered? >> i'm going to try, remind me if i forget something.

yes, the president absolutely was involved in this decision. he ordered it at the recommendation of pentagon leaders. he wanted it taken down and they did that. they did it using fighter aircraft assigned to u.s. northern command. pentagon will have more to say later on this afternoon, it's only just in the last hour. we are calling this an object because that's the best description we have right now. we do not know who owns it, whether it's state owned or corporate owned or privately owned. we just don't know. we don't know. as i said, state owned. don't know if it's state owned. and we don't understand the full purpose, we don't have any -- don't have any information that would confirm a stated purpose for this object. we do expect to be able to recover the debris since it fell not only within our territorial space, but on what we believe is

frozen water, so recovery effort will be made and we are hopeful that it will be successful and then we can learn a little more about it. >> was the appearance like the chinese aircraft? >> no, it was -- it was much, much smaller than the spy balloon we took down last saturday. the way it was described to me was roughly the size of a small car as opposed to a payload that was like 2 or 3 bus size, so much, much smaller. and not of the same -- not -- no significant payload, if you will. >> lastly, is it now the policy of the united states that if unidentified aircraft are over u.s. territory, that it is likely the president will choose to shoot it down? >> the president will always act in the best interests of our national security and in the

safety and security of the american people. >> john, pentagon ordered this new object be taken down over alaska. >> the president ordered it. >> president ordered it. a fair take away the pentagon regrets not taking down the first balloon before it crossed the entire u.s.? >> i'm not going to speak for the pentagon. i can tell you the president does not regret the way we handled the first balloon. first of all, apples and oranges in terms of size. the size of a small car and over very sparsely populated area and critically, it was over water, water space, when we ordered this down as we did the last one. but completely different size. and the debris field for this we expect to be much, much smaller than would have been for the other one. that's difference 1. difference 2, we knew the prc

balloon was in fact a surveillance asset, and capable of surveillance over sensitive military sites and that it had self-propulsion and maneuver capabilities. the first one was able to loiter, slow down, speed up, very purposeful inside the jet stream. >> that would suggest over alaska, too, though -- >> the pentagon has already spoken to this question about whether or not they should have or could have shot it down over alaska air space. hours and hours of testimony yesterday on that. >> on the communications, though, correct me if i'm wrong, we don't know what intelligence or communications could have been collected or what devices they were targeting as i understand it. that being said, how can the president say it was not a major breach if we don't know that?

>> we do know, the basic flight path of this thing and we were able to take steps at sensitive military sites that we believed would be along the flight path to significantly curtail any intelligence ability that the chinese could get from the balloon, certainly curtail anything that would be above and beyond what they normally try to collect through other means. >> was this latest object that was shot down within the last hour, was that based upon any information gleaned from the monitoring of the last balloon over the last -- over last week, in terms of what you learned about that chinese program, did that inform the decision to shoot this item down? >> i think i would be careful to say anything specific to what we have learned from that last platform, and you know, we were able to collect some information

from it while it was in flight, that was another reason why we let it traverse overland the way it did. but i would be -- i would not say that information gleaned from our surveillance of that surveillance balloon provided insights that permitted this detection and track. >> as of this moment, are you convinced you shot down -- do you know what you shot down, that it was not just a harmless weather balloon, that there was some motivation flying this over u.s. air space or is it truly -- >> i think we are going to learn more. i can tell you it was an object at 40,000 feet and the predominant concern by the president was safety of flight issue at that altitude. the one that was shot down last saturday was at 65 plus thousand feet. so no threat to civilian aircraft. this one at 40,000 feet could have posed a threat is civilian

aircraft and did not appear to have the maneuver capability the other one did. so virtually at the whim of the wind. >> thank you, karine. thank you, to follow up on what you said about civilian aircraft, is that what you meant initially when you said there was a reasonable threat to shoot it down? >> yes, my exact words were reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. >> and to -- given what you said earlier about intent with regard to the chinese spy balloon, does the u.s. give any credence to the chinese argument that the balloon accidentally veered off course and ended up where it did? >> talking about the one from last week? say that again. >> does the u.s. give any credence to the chinese argument that this thing accidentally veered off course and ended up where it did?

>> no. >> so -- was it targeting specific places? was it targeting military sites? >> what we know is that the flight path is executed, took it over sensitive military sites. what we also know is that it could maneuver, propulsion capability and steerage capability, slow down, speed up, and it was on a path to transit over sensitive military sites. >> thank you. >> thanks. admiral kirby, on the latest object, you said it did not appear to have the maneuverability capabilities the chinese spy balloon have. did it have any maneuverability or was it flying on its own? >> at this time all i can tell you it did not appear to have the ability to independently maneuver. we'll attempt recovery and we'll see what we can learn more from. >> sorry, one more on the

chinese spy balloon. we are reporting that the u.s. is about to impose export controls on chinese companies that are believed to have been involved in that balloon surveillance program. can you confirm that and say when the administration might impose those export controls? >> i'm not in a position to confirm those reports right now and i would refer you to the department of treasury. >> i believe said this was shot down, o or landed on the frozen waters off alaska. >> initial assessment. >> is the policy still, considering the first one off the east coast and this high altitude object was shot down off the west coast, is the policy at this point in time you can shoot it down if it's over a body of water? >> i wouldn't derive from these two incidents some sort of policy that comes out of it. the president will always act in the best interest of the

american people and in our national security. last week we were talking about a surveillance asset that was purposecally flown over the continental united states. in the case today we are talking about an object, again we don't know a lot about it, but that at its altitude represented a potential threat to the safety of flying customers, civil air traffic. >> based on your broad and deep experience, who do you think might own or have flown this thing in the air? >> i have no idea. >> don't know who owns it or flying, but has anyone the administration reached out to the chinese to see whether they will claim this new object? >> i know of no outreach to the chinese government about this. >> the state department over the weekends, or last few days, since the first spy balloon confirm they think they have gone over 40 countries.

considering that fact and the new development today, what's next on a larger diplomatic front? u.s. talking with allies about how to police the skies, about how to bring this to the u.n. to figure out what to do? >> we are talking about dozens of nations who we know have been overflown by chinese surveillance balloons, part of this program that the chinese have invested in to share with them the context and information we have learned by forensics we have done since we came in office about this particular program and i would remind you be briefed congress in a classified setting in august about this, it's not something we have not been trying to learn more about. we have been aware of it and trying to glean more information from it, and this -- we expect that the recovery of the debris from the balloon we shot down last saturday will help us gain even more information. but we are in the act of

conversations with many countries who we know have been overflown. >> where specifically in alaska was the high altitude object shot down? >> the pentagon will be talking more about this a little bit later, probably have more detail for you, but the general area would be just off the very, very northeastern part of alaska, right near the alaska-canada border. >> arctic ocean? >> yeah, that's where it went done, on that northern side of alaska near the canadian border on water that is frozen, yes. >> over land -- >> it was, it was, yeah. >> it was shot down in the last hour. when did you -- you said when did the u.s. first get intelligence that it existed? >> the knowledge about the

balloon and the track first came to our attention last evening. >> what time thereabouts? >> i don't have an exact time on the clock for you, it was last evening. >> have you ruled out -- not ruled out, but you have not determined it was surveillance in nature. >> we haven't ruled anything in or out. that's why we are calling this an objects. >> you called it a balloon. misspoke there? >> yes, i'm sorry. you have me with balloon on the brain right now. this was an object, just clarify, i'm not classifying it as a balloon right now, it's an object, we are trying to learn more from it. that it landed on what, on water that is frozen could help us assist make it easier for us to try to recover some of the debris. u.s. northern command is examining what the possibilities are. >> you have no knowledge of outreach to the chinese yet from the administration. are there plans to reach out and ask --

>> i know of no plans to reach out to the chinese specifically on this. i want to stress again, we don't know what entity owns this object. there is no indication that it's from a nation or an institution or an individual. we just don't know. >> foreign entity -- >> we don't know who owns this object. >> thank you. thanks. are you tracking any other similar objects right now at this time? >> i'm not aware of any other tracks. >> and also, i know you said it was due to a civilian aircraft threat, but why not wait until it's over warmer water where you could more easily recover -- it was -- >> it was heading over the arctic, not very warm. >> thank you karine, admiral. one question on today's incident and then a separate subject if i may. given how little was known about this object at the time that our

forces shot it down, is it safe to say that when the president ordered that it be shot down he did not know whether it was a manned or unmanned object. >> we were able to get some fighter aircraft up and around it before the order to shoot it down and the pilot's assessment was this was not manned. >> on a different subject, after the state of the union address, minutes after he finished delivering the state of the union address, president biden encountered in the halls of the capitol brittany alconis, the wife of your navy comrade ridge, who remains in prison in japan and the president told her we are going to get this done. i wonder if you can tell us if the alkonis case figured in the conversation the president had with the japanese prime minister when he visited here, and the

promise to mrs. alkonis, i know generally you don't like to say a whole lot about these efforts, but what can you tell us what's being done on behalf of lieutenant alkonis? >> back to what i said to you last time, james. the president is well aware of this case and well aware of what the family is going through. also well aware of concerns by the japanese government with respect to their judicial system. and he's got the team working on this. i'm not gonna disclose personal conversations that the president had either with mrs. alkonis or with the prime minister, but he's well aware of it, tracking it, and so is the national security team. >> thank you, karine, and admiral. over here. >> i need to watch for her hands. >> two questions, incident that happened in the past hour -- i wanted to know, is there any line of communication that you can describe that has been ongoing over the course of the past two weeks on the diplomatic

side of things? i know the defense secretary says that his call to his counterpart was not returned from china. but on the diplomatic side of things, are there lines of communication between the u.s. and china right now? >> well, certainly. look, we have an embassy in beijing, diplomatic discussions routinely happen with beijing. so of course the diplomatic channels remain open. sadly, the military ones do not appear to be open right now. secretary austin made a good faith effort to reach out to his counterpart and was rebuffed, and that's unfortunate, particularly when at times like this you want to keep as open as you can the lines of communication and the president has committed to that. >> on ukraine, president zelenskyy was in the u.k. earlier this week and he received a promise from the u.k. government -- >> sandra: we are going to digest the big news from john kirby live at the white house with mark esper in just a

moment, john. what we are learning, the department of defense was tracking this high altitude object as kirby continues to describe, not calling it a balloon, at least not yet. it was over alaska air space for the last 24 hours, it was flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet. they decided, collectively, it posed a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight and out of abundance of caution, kirby's words, and the recommendation of the pentagon, president biden ordered the military to down the object and they did, and it came inside our territorial waters, about the size of a small car, he described it, a bit different obviously than the situation we just had in the past week, john. >> john: the former secretary of defense to the trump administration mark esper has been listening with us and joins us now. sounds like a different animal, a different beast than the last balloon, what do you make so far? >> amazing the breaking news

that happened here. there are differences, of course, in terms of what john kirby is defining, described object, but the attributes make you think it's a balloon once again. and later admitted the aircraft would fly by it, to get a visual on it before shooting it down and we know the aircraft is down, i assume northern command is selling helicopters to the site quickly to recover the debris, to secure the site and begin the forensics of all that. interesting, the good news, it appears the administration has tightened up procedures with regard to detecting and reporting and deciding what to do with air vehicles or objects entering air space. the bad news, if it's another chinese balloon, very hard to explain what is going on in beijing if they would continue to do this. i think it's important we not jump to conclusions.

it could just be a weather balloon from another country, but this is going to be very important politically diplomatically to find out whether or not this is another chinese balloon or not and we'll have to wait until our teams get on the ground, recover the wreckage and do the forensic. >> sandra: mr. secretary, great to have you on and good timing following the news out of the white house and john kirby, and we are expecting a pentagon briefing shortly where we hope to learn more, and karine jean-pierre may add further detail about the president making the decision to shoot down this object. just some of the details, the pilot's assessment was made this was not a manned aircraft, important to get that in there. they still don't know whether or not this is a chinese-owned object. he did detail they knew the flight pattern of this object for a while, they were tracking it for 24 hours and did land on frozen water, that's critical, right mr. secretary, hopefully

more intact to study exactly what this is. >> yeah, it's -- it will be intact but falling from a great altitude on to ice, there is going to be some damage. it should still be sufficient to do the forensics. and look, the other issue here realities to the previous incident is this -- their actions seem to undermine their previous explanation for why the first chinese balloon wasn't shot down or in alaskan air space. it proves that they can do it, we can do it, we'll see what the debris field looks like, the recovery, so forth and so on. but much to be learned in the next 24 hours. i think it's important to not jump to conclusions until we get some more reporting out of the pentagon. >> john: you suggested a moment ago if it is another chinese balloon, the gall to put another one up after the first one would be extraordinary. however, since it's a different type of object than the first balloon, does not seem to have a

capability of steering or maneuvering, it's just riding on the wind as kirby said. could it be this was put up before we detected the last one? >> we just don't know, john. and look at the direction from which it's coming in. the chinese balloon over the last week came in through the aleutians, so -- in western/southwestern alaska. described it came in from the northeast, from the arctic ocean. so i imagine following a jet stream. it could be from another country, it could be a peaceful scientific weather balloon, who knows. but again, clearly we have tightened up our procedures in dod and the administration regarding our ability to detect these things, report them and quickly make decisions about unidentified objects entering our air space, that's a good thing. >> sandra: mr. secretary, there was a question in the briefing room that was an important one by a reporter asking have we called china?

have we asked if they are taking ownership of this, and claiming this object? the president, i asked our team to tee it up last hour, we rolled sound on the president in this new interview asked about chinese relations with the united states, i believe his response was they are great. but -- so wouldn't we be able to pick up the phone and call china and ask if they are claiming this? >> relations are clearly not great, they are low and going lower. the recent incident in the past week and a half undermines trust between our two countries. but you are right, i said a few days ago if we had -- if we knew june 28th, i'm sorry, january 28th a balloon, chinese balloon had entered our air space, you know, you would we would immediately pick up the hotline and ask the chinese what's going on, and by the way, we are going to shoot it down. it does not appear the chinese are willing to talk or they are not talking, but the military to

military hot lines, making sure they are working to reach out to beijing and finds out what's going on, and that's why it will be interesting to see where the balloon is from, understand what the purpose was. a lot can be discovered in the next 24 hours. >> john: mr. secretary, alarming news out of the classified briefings on the first balloon yesterday. one of the details is some of the components appeared to be made in the west and had english writing on them. what do you think is behind that? would this be western manufacturers supplying military equipment to china, or could this be potentially fairly innocent dual use capabilities? >> >> john, we need to find out. we need to understand the instrumentation and alarm to find western components, and not afraid of u.s. components in the instrumentation. china has been doing for decades, they will buy u.s. components, western components,

technology for one reason, may be it through a commercial company and then ship it illegally, illicitly without u.s. permission into the people's liberation army, that happens often despite our best efforts to go after export control, that's why give the biden administration credit for cracking down with regards to the export of our highest and best technologies to china, because once he goes over, there's no stopping into the pla hands or the ministry of state security hands, so we have to crack it down semiconductors is one thing, but there's more technologies we should look out across the board to make sure that they are not using our own technology against us. >> sandra: i want to quote the president directly, i don't know that we will be able to turn it, so i will say what he said to judy woodruff in that interview, she asked him, so china today is saying they feel smeared obviously following the state of the union address in referencing his remarks from the state of the union, she asked him, have relations between the u.s. and china taken a big hit? he said no, no, how do you know,

she asked him? i know, i talked to him. what was your take away from that? >> yeah, i did not understand it, because as we know there has been no communication between washington and beijing at the highest levels in the last week or ten days, and it just makes no sense, clearly relationship has taken a hit, because of the chinese actions, it was such a brazen act for them to do this. and the other part is the chinese went from lying when it was first discovered calling it a scientific weather balloon, they expressed some regrets, and then they came angry that we would accuse them of doing this, and then they played the victim, and now they are threatening. it's just -- it's fascinating what is going on from beijing, and we need to learn more, i think that you spoke about in an earlier hour about what is going on within beijing. was this a decision by xi jinping, the pla, the military act to undermine these relations were is it simply broke roddick m confidence going

on within the chinese communist party government? we don't know when those will be important things to find out. speak to mr. secretary sandra mentioned the pbs interview moments ago, whether or not president biden believes that this incursion into our airspace by the first balloon was a major breach, listen here. >> it is not a measure breach, look, it is totally a violation of national law into our airspace and once it comes in our airspace, we can do what we want. >> john: my apologies, it's a telemundo interview, but the sound bite was the right one compass by craft we have learned has the capability to vacuum up signals intelligence and it floated over the united states for the better part of a leak, would you consider that to be a major breach? >> it is a major breach, not only violated our airspace but our sovereignty and they have done something that my memory no other country, no other country that threatens us has done in my lifetime, and that is send so

basically a surveillance system through our airspace observable by the american people, and have it loiter in places here and continue to travel across united states. it's just unprecedented. i don't recall this ever happening. and so yes, of course it is a major breach. and we have learned that they have been doing it in dozens of other countries around the world. and i think that this is another wake-up call for the west that the chinese ambitions are to spy on us, to steal our technology, and to do everything they can to achieve their aim of dominating certainly the endo pacific if not the global order by the year 2049. >> sandra: a big news afternoon, we'll see the fallout from this announcement just a few moments ago come alive from the white house, mark esper, mr. secretary, thank you for joining us. and john, the john kirby briefing is still ongoing at the white house, and we have been monitoring that for additional news, and while he did detailed that they made this call to shoot the object down or take it

down within the past hour, just a little further detail on that, the decision was made this morning he just revealed, asked when did the president give the order to shoot it down? this morning. >> john: talk about burying the lede, talks about all of this other stuff, and then a reporter says, oh, by the way, did you shoot something down? oh, yes. here are the details. my gosh. >> martha: grade to be with you come have a great weekend. i'm sandra smith. >> martha: elsey and monday, thank you for joining us, "the story" with martha continues to breaking news. >> it's actually a trace, good afternoon, and trace gallagher in for martha maccallum, "the story" is a bombshell as we can train new breaking news, about to go to the pentagon as a white house confirms a "high altitude object was shot down over alaska today. though there is no confirmation on who owns the object. we don't know if it is state