and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. >> why are you here? >> i'm here to support the community and if you'll excuse me, that's where i'm headed now to be with community members. thank you. >> thank you so much. neil: all right. for that community, probably a bit of a surprise as norfolk southern president and ceo alan shaw showing up right now to try to get firsthand knowledge of what's going on and in east palestine. it was a little over two weeks ago that you recall that this train derailment occurred. we're learning more about the derailment itself.

this train was almost 1.8 miles long and had 158 cars, 38 cars ultimately had derailed. 11 were containing hazardous material and there were some five toxic chemicals on board, including vinyl chloride. that's the one that has a lot of folks worried right now because even though it's colorless and you almost wouldn't know it or sense it or smell it, some can. and that was the one that would have normally alerted people along a path of the train carrying it that you've got a train coming into town that's carrying it. now, there are different interpretations of the laws and requirements around that. be that as it may, norfolk southern has promised to provide whatever help the town needs. better that and million dollars has been distributed thus far and we don't know the details of that, but more money was coming. a lot of lawyers, some of whom i have been talking to, who are pondering class action suits saying that's a drop in the

bucket with the obligation that norfolk southern would have. no way of knowing, but the ceo is there and how long he stays, we'll keep you posted and more in a few minutes. the latest on the drama going on right now in germany where you have the secretary of state and his chinese counterpart, essentially at the same conference at the same time amid the back and forth on the search for debris and then giving up on some of those searches for some of that debris, and the accusations back and forth around the world. alexandria hoff has more on this in washington. alexandria. >> hi, neil. good to be with you, yeah, according to the white house they don't want americans feeling like their skies are suddenly full of attack balloons. it's unlikely that we'll ever know the true story behind three small objects shot down since february 10th. u.s. officials are recommending that the searches be called off. the terrain is really difficult there, as is the weather. given that the suspected chinese spy balloon was able to

maneuver cross the u.s. before being shot down, the white house has had to answer why their policies seem to differ. yesterday, john kirby reiterated that new rules will be put into place for similar situations in the future. >> it doesn't mean that there won't be additional shootdowns if he believes there's legitimate threat to our safety and security. there is is new set of parameters on the process going forward. >> the enormous chinese spy craft shot down off the coast is recovered and analyzed at the la be in virginia. today, china's top diplomate poking fun, calling it hysterical and it it at the munich security conference, it's unclear if he and antony blinken will speak while there. >> here is mike pompeo. >> this balloon is symptom of the biden's policies with respect to china. they have not confronted in a

way that's serious and would cause xi jinping-- wing is an actor or agency of xi jinping. we have haven't convinced them, flying a balloon over the united states for five days, is something that we're not going to permit to happen. >> we don't know if a meeting, casual, will take place. we haven't heard from the president, and he's set to go to poland. neil: there's a same conference in germany where you have china and the possibility that he could bump into antony blinken, not that far from where the call is right now, the house chairman, house homeland security committee, you name it, the key committees that would be on this. congressman, good to have you. >> thanks, neil.

neil: do you think whether he'll have a chance to meet with his chinese counterpart? >> yeah, there have been discussions about a private meeting to talk about the balloon situation. maybe talk about rising tensions between the two countries. i don't think that's been formalized yet. but i know the chinese foreign minister spoke and tried to make a mockery out of the united states of america, saying this is nothing more than a weather balloon and why would the united states shoot down a balloon that wasn't a threat, and saying why would we want to start an international crisis or a war over a balloon. i know the secretary of state's going to respond, very soon here. i hope he respond very strong fashion, we're not going to allow the chinese spy balloon that's committing espionage to cross the united states without some sort of retribution. it should never have gotten over mainland united states in the first place.

it should have been shot down the immediate time it entered into our air space. neil: chairman, if you were the secretary of state would you meet with him? >> you know, i would do it very privately and very behind the scenes. this is all leaked out as a rumor now. i do think they have to have discussions about that we're not going to tolerate these -- this type of espionage 60,000 feet over the united states in our air space, if you do it again we're going to shoot it down before it enters our country. i would do it only in the sense to send xi jinping a very strong warning signal that that's going to be the policy of the united states. we're not going to tolerate this. i think the way it's played out though, neil, as pompeo says a sign of weakness, a projection of weakness. now the fact it was allowed to

travel over three military bases with our top nuclear warheads, taking images, and possibility sending them back to beijing, really makes us an embarrassment to the rest of the world here. why would we allow that to happen? yeah, i would give a very strong speech before all the international nations right here at the munich security what the policies of the united states is. the president won't right now, we've got to determine our rules of engagement. and shooting down it when it enters our air space. neil: you're probably aware that china has promised retribution to destroy this balloon of theirs, they still call a weather balloon and angry when we went after six chinese technology companies that are behind making technology like this, balloons like this. so they immediately, you know,

started slapping sanctions on companies, you know, like raytheon, and lockheed martin and next week we could see a new round of restrictions on our part, on chinese companies and china doing the same. do you think this escalates into an economic war? >> well, we've been in a great power competition with china for quite some time. neil, the important point, you have a spy balloon committing espionage that has american components in them. technology parts made in the united states that have gone into their spy craft. the same thing happened with the hypersonic missile that orbitted the world, landed with precision that can carry a nuclear payload. that was built on the backbone of american technology. so, my committee, as chairman of foreign affairs, we're going

to be looking at stopping the export of this critical technology. aerospace particularly, that goes into the pla's war machine, that could be turned against taiwan and in time possibly against the united states. they steal this intellectual property, but we don't have to sell them technology that they then turn around and put into their military. i don't think that the american people support that. neil: chairman mike mccaul good to see you. the chairman. there was a little bit of an audio delay, i apologize for those questions and answers, but not too bad. the goings on in east palestine, ohio, and the man who runs norfolk and southern chairman is there, and we don't know with whom he's meeting.

maybe lucas tomlinson does because he's in the same place. >> we hear that adam shaw will be meeting with local congressman who i believe is on your show later on today. and fema now says they're sending a small team to east palestine and learning that hhs and c.d.c. will also be deploying a small team. let me read you the statement from fema in ohio, governor mike dewine, that fema will supplement federal efforts by deploying a senior response official along with a regional management assistance team to support ongoing operations including incident coordination and ongoing assessments of potential long-term recovery needs. as i mentioned the governor says that hhs and c.d.c. will deploy teams to set up a free medical clinic here, including toxicologists in addition to personnel. and the train derail half a mile from where i'm standing,

norfolk southern railroad has been handing out $1,000 checks for this zip code only. but we spoke with women two towns from that, and she responded to the farm after the derailment and tiffany says she's nervous about sending her children to school. >> i lost two chickens, three rabbits and sick chickens. and this is after 24 hours. >> i sent her back with bottled waterment do not drink the water. she did bring us home a sample out of the water fountain, it was foul. it smelled bad. >> now, just minutes before joining us on air, neil, one man stopped his car to say that pennsylvania residents on the border of eastern ohio should deserve combination because they're located just out of town. we visit add local creek out of town and one local resident

showed a visible sheen as you can see here. senator jd vance who represents ohio says he doesn't want the federal government to foot the entire bill because that means the american taxpayer foots the bill. he wants to see norfolk southern pay up. and hopefully we'll hear more from the ceo. neil: thank you for that. lucas tomlinson. other issues, we're going to be talking to a local community resident here trying to run a business there and imagine how difficult that is. we've talked to a number of home owners, one in particular who want today put her home up for sale, but in this environment, she's having a tough time finding buyers. i wonder why that would be, after this. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

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i can't believe it. here we are at the let us do good village. first community like this in america. a hundred families together that lost their loved ones. the kids that lost their mom or dad protecting us. and today is the day that we're going to deliver the first beautiful home to the thornton family.

some wonderful people donated. a bunch of land in land o' lakes. to let us do good village. having stood here on this same property with a shovel and now seeing a home where a family is going to move in. built all of our roads, all of our infrastructure is here. we've got several homes are under construction. this is a foundation that you should be a part of because not just helping me, but there's so many people like me that need help. this time next year, we hope to have another dozen houses done with another dozen families in. every inch of this community has meaning. >> if the folks in east palestine are telling us that they're not comfortable drinking that water, i think we ought to take their word for it. neil: all right, that was congressman rick crawford of arkansas that runs the house

transportation committee and of course, under his committee and his role, of course, he has to see to it that when we have issues like this, that they're being addressed. we told you that norfolk southern, the president and ceo is in the town right now and providing some relief, financial, that seems small to a lot of folks who expect more. the ceo is expected to give them more, but this comes at a time when a lot of people are saying all the assurances they're getting on the water and contaminants in the air and seem to be passing muster with the safety officials and the like, matters little to them, but it's the business that has been hit. home sales canceled and home values that have plummeted. if you're living there and you're trying to get work done there, times are very, very tough there to put it mildly. including a conversation you had with eric whiting seeing it firsthand for himself. take a look. >> we're getting better every day, i suppose, at least, at least we're back in our homes

right now and we're happy for that, but just wish it was a little bit in better circumstances with better air and water quality and we had he a be a lot happier with that, but we'll take what we get right now. neil: eric, you heard the governor, you don't have to drink bottled water unless you have a well. do you have a well? how do you feel about the recommendation that things are okay, the air is okay, the water is okay? >> now, we don't have a well, i'm on city water, but i'd rather as a precaution, i have three young kids and myself and my wife and i'd rather not find out down the road that there is a problem. they're still doing tests, there are no final results and he'd rare err on caution. and today it's okay, because it's windy and cold, but especially at night, when there's no wind, it burns your eyes, my throat is sore all days and my kids have to deal with that, i'm about a quarter mile to a half mile from where

the accident happened so i'm pretty close to it. neil: man, oh, man. eric, apparently there's little fema can do at this point because it's not a natural disaster like a tornado, hurricane, flood, their role is limited and we're learning the same from the epa for the time being even though they're available if home owners want to have their home examined. are you open to that? have you had that done? >> i have not had it done yet. we'd be open to it if they want today take a look at it. but i worry more about the history of the future that we have with the family, that we had a home, we had value in it, we had equity built up in it. for the last 10 years we've been living there. now, i don't know what i would do with it. it's not like i can sell it tomorrow and move. i don't necessarily plan on doing it, but didn't, didn't give me any options. i feel that, you know, maybe, maybe fema trucks at this point may not help, but somebody's got to be able to help

somewhere for like basically us losing our livelihoods for a lot of the town. neil: and maybe for quite a while at that. i hope i'm wrong on that part, eric. have you had heard anything from norfolk southernment any mailings, tweets, calls, anything? >> i have not. i've gone over to the resource center over in new waterford and every time i've gone, it's been several hours of waiting to get through the line, so we've mostly just decided we're going to go there when it calms down, but we've had no interaction with them other than at the front door when we're getting the paper work, but no -- nobody else official that's telling us any actual answers. they've most likely been told not to talk to us, i would imagine. neil: now, we talked to a couple of lawyers, eric, reaching out to residents and maybe they've reached out to you to take some actions right now, to hold norfolk southern accountable. norfolk southern has countered that it will not leave until

your town is right. where are you on this? has any lawyer contacted you? >> i have gone to meetings for lawyers. i've talked to one today as well. i just want to weigh my options. i haven't chosen anything yet, i haven't decided anything yet, but i kind of want today see how it played out, but that may be what we have to do in the end because i don't think that anything is going to be done out the goodness of anyone's heart withouting having to go that route. it's a shame and that's what we have to do. we're truly disappointed that 15 minutes after i'm rolling back into town after the evacuation is over, the first trains are going by, lined up ready to go and they didn't remove soil, they didn't remove any of that stuff, they just put tracks down. i believe it was like 16 hours after the accident they were laying track out preparing to repair the damaged track. it was clear that there was a one main goal that they had and that's to get the lines back up and running.

neil: we mentioned norfolk southern there. there have been reports that it was offering $1,000 checks to residents. were you offered anything like that? >> if i go over that resource center, yes, apparently i would be qualifying for that. i am within the one mile zone. we've not done that because i didn't want to wait yet for it, but that might be something we do in the beginning part of next week to go over and do that. i want to make sure i talk to legal counsel before i did that, sign anything or take any checks. neil: you're a smart man, eric. how are your kids holding up? >> they're okay. it's crazy, they're at home right now, so they're happy to be home. staying in a hotel outside of town, it was a cheap hotel we had to stay at. i mean, the first night we ran out of the house with the clothes we had on, i grabbed my wallet, kids, wife, the dog and we left. that was it. we didn't have a change of

clothes, so luckily, we were able to come back into town the next day and we were able to get some more stuff, but we were still-- then we were forced out basically and we had to stay out, which is understandable, but it was-- we didn't expect that the first night. we thought we'd come back the first morning and fire be out and fine. nobody said anything about toxic until our eyes are burning and throats are itchy and can't breathe and then we're told about it. seems like they should have he thinks med something from the get-go that there's toxins. neil: all right. eric whiting. just among the many residents who really don't know what's going on. they're not getting the real skinny just how safe it is or is not and when they get assurances from local officials and others coming from the epa, the air is fine and contaminant level is low, and the 400 houses or so-so far look good. they say to themselves, yeah, but look at this creek and

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>> and we will hold people accountable and that includes secretary mayorkas. you cannot lie to the american people any longer and tell us this border is secure. >> in washington, we are listening to border communities and stakeholders and people who are on the ground who of course have an incredibly important perspective on how we deal with some of the challenges and issues around border safety and security. neil: all right. you had republicans gathering on the arizona side of the border, with kevin mccarthy the

speaker, the first time the speaker has been down there as speaker and you had joaquin jeffries and other democrats with him on the texas side of the border. so, they were within 24 hours of each other and so you thought, could one overstay the other and maybe they could talk about how to deal with it. anyway, casey stegall in mission, texas with the fallout from this. hey, casey. >> hey, neil, yeah, as we talked about yesterday, both sides are calling each other out for saying this is nothing more than a political stunt by coming to the border and frustration is mounting with boots on the ground as lawmakers do visit the region from both sides of the political aisle, yet, no real solutions are ever introduced, no real framework is introduced to really help fix the problem. just this morning brand new video from the fox flight team drone, showing a group of about 50 migrants being taken into custody over in eagle pass, that's part of the del rio sector.

federal agents say just in the last week alone across the entire southwest border, more than 31,000 migrant encounters have been logged. more than 12,000 got-aways recorded. in addition to 117 pounds of fentanyl was seized along with 134 pounds of meth and 95 pounds of doe cocaine, within a seven-day day period, proof officials say that it's anything, but secure. all the way, border patrol agents are discovered what are known as stash houses. a holding place used by cartels on both sides of the border where migrants and/or drugs are kept, so the cartels can better control the flow of couldn't-- cont contraband. the total of 175 of stash houses that have been dismantled by u.s. border pralle so far for fiscal year

2023, and they say that they've discovered thousands of others along the border in that time. neil. neil: thank you, casy. i want to go to the cochise count sheriff. and sheriff, the surge is on again. so, we had a brief dip and it looks like it's picking up again. >> well, you're right, neil, on that. just in the last couple of weeks, we've had six dead in my county. we've had three law enforcement vehicles damaged, two of them sheriff's office vehicles of the juveniles are back at it again, smuggling. adults, the pursuits. i was on one last saturday night, my deputies and troopers here and border patrol collectively, a vehicle 100 miles per hour. ran into the back of a semi. four migrants thrown onto the highway. this goes on every day, we're dealing with pursuits, fleeing from us, fighting with us, assaults on us. neil, i agree with speaker mccarthy, i appreciate him

being here and i know freshmen congressman are doing an amazing job to engage with us. we've got to get it fixed because right now it's not okay. neil: what would be -- you're right there at the front line, sheriff, and i ask you a lot about this. you would know what to be done at least if you had your pecking order of the immediate things that the government would do. what would they be. >> the first thing we need and i continue to say this is enforce the rule of law as it's written. those who come across the border need to be held accountable to our laws, neil, which is immediate expulsion, it truly is. either do it legally or don't do it at all and we need the president of the united states, vice-president harris, secretary mayorkas be true to the people and enforce the rule of law. neil: joaquin jeffries comes and says we are aware of what's going on here. do you believe him? >> i believe they're aware of it. that's not what concerns me. they're very-- they're intelligent people and

not going to take that from them. take their politics and set it aside. republicans take politics and set it aside. let's work together for the good of this country and that's where the fracture is. i testified three weeks ago and watched republicans blame democrats, democrats blame republicans. enough. enough. while they battle this every day, we're on this border dealing with tragedy after tragedy and my citizens are tired of it. coming to get on this show here i stop and got a soda and a citizen walked up, thank you for what you're doing and thank you for law enforcement, but the federal government has got to help us and that's what i hear daily out here in the public. neil: i tell you, sheriff, and i think you've heard others from your testimony, your testimony was was riveting. you took no prisoners, you're not a happy guy and you have no reason to be. sheriff mark dannels, cochise county sheriff and speaks his mind and we could use more of that. we're speaking our mind as a country when it comes to russia. right now, saying it's really

guilty of crimes against humanity and worse. but what's going on in ukraine is essentially getting a shrug shoulder response from vladimir putin because i don't know what the russian term for whatever is, but that was his response.

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>> all right. there has been another shooting, this time in mississippi, at least six are known dead. charles watson has the latest

for us. charles. >> yeah, really, devastating situation here in tate county, mississippi, neil. the sheriff says this 52-year-old suspect in this case carried out those shootings armed with a shotgun and two handguns killing at least six people, including his ex-wife and stepfather. those shootings spanned four different scenes, including this gas station behind me. the gas station parking lot here in arkabutla, mississippi, south of memphis. and they described richard dale crum, shooting a man in the pickup truck. the victim's brother was in the pickup, but was able to escape through the woods as crum chased him briefly. and another shooting at a home a couple of meals away.

and when deputies arrived found the deceased body of a woman, later described as the suspect's ex-wife and her current husband who had been wounded. a short time later, the sheriff's deputies tried to pull him over and he would not stop on led the deputy in a chase that ended at crum's home where deputies arrested them. deputies would found four more shot nearby, two handy men behind crum's loam and the bodies of his stepfather and stepsister in a neighboring home. and all of this has shocked the community of less than 300. >> we have crime, everybody has crime and from time to time, we have violent crime, but certainly nothing of this magnitude. >> now, we now know the names of the victims. 59-year-old chris eugene boyce. debra crum.

charles manuel. and 73-year-old george mccain and 78-year-old linda mccain and as of right now, the suspect is jailed without bond. he's only currently facing one count of capitol murder, but those charges are expected to be upgraded. neil. neil: thank you, charles watson in mississippi with that. i want to switch our attention to halfway around the world, what's going on in ukraine. you might have heard the president is going to be leaving on monday for poland, whether he meets with president zelenskyy is anyone's guess. we do know all of this with the back drop of our country formally accusing russia of crimes against humanity in the ongoing war there. that's about a year old now. trey yingst is in ukraine with more. and they're calling there must be consequences for crimes

against the ukrainian people and those on the front lines telling us they need more western support. >> a ukrainian territorial defense captain checks monitors in the region. they're using drones to identify russian positions and direct ukrainian artillery fire. with the help of radio our troops transfer information where the movement of our enemy was seen so they can shoot the leader of the reconnaissance unit explains. they show off american made sniper rifles and they say they're thankful for american support and need more 0 ammunition and rockets to fill russian soldiers. we have a lack of heavy weapons. the sniper explains. while much of the world's focus remains on ukraine's eastern front, the south is where ukraine could soon reclaim more

of their territory. for civilians with a year of shellings and attacks, that counter offensive could not come fast enough. >> and we live in fear, she says, we're scared for our children. we're scared for our children, heart breaking words there. we met kids at a school, six and seven years old. the sights and sounds are etched into their minds, neil. neil: trey yingst. thank you for that, my friend. and developments out of north korea. it's fired off more missiles, this is the first significant launch of missiles we've had, icbm types, since last year. we don't know much more than that outside of the japanese prime minister saying they've gone over the economic zone of and this did come up at the

german conference coming up and antony blinken spoke. >> we have been engaged with north korea and the response from north korea is missile launch after missile launch. neil: and the four star fox news contributor, general, what do you make of the provocation of north korea with the chinese all, but ignoring our diplomates including secretary of state blinken. what do you make of the two? >> well, you know, the north koreans are, you know, sort of experts at sort of taking advantage of any situation in the world when the u.s. may be, our attention diverted someplace else. i think between paying attention to balloons and coming up with the one-year anniversary on ukraine, these things are not totally, i

think, unpredictable. and that really, our response has to be one of continuing to sort of bring together a collective response from japan, south korea, like that, so the north koreans can't paint it as just against the americans, that it's really them against the world. neil: you know, it's period, gen-- it's weird, general, i'm the one connecting the dots and someone like yourself more savvy, when you think about it, we want to talk to north korea, north korea doesn't want to talk to us. we want to talk to china and the post the balloon thing. and they hang up on the secretary when he calls. and so far at the conference yet to meet with the secretary of state even in the same place at the same time. what do you make of all that? >> well, you know, with a lot of those type regimes, they don't want to engage you unless they are convinced they are talking at a--

from a position of advantage. and so, there are all of these things going on in the world, but when you look at the back drop of what's going on in ukraine and sort of the huge lack of success russia has had to put a glass half full spin on this, they see that regardless of their desires, that the united states still is the leader of the free world and i know a lot of people don't like this term, but in many people's eyes is the indispensible nation and if people doubt that look what's happened the last year and had the u.s. not been in the positions and taken the actions we've had. so, while you can get distracted on these individual events, i think, actually, korea and china are very good at stepping back and saying, you know, maybe we will try this, you know, death by a thousand cuts because the u.s. and our allies are having an

unprecedented level of success in ukraine and as we're coming up on the one-year anniversary, i'm sure that's not missed by them. neil: general david perkins, i appreciate you taking the time. we'll follow that up, if we have any more news or reaction to these overtures, but we do know that the daytona 500 is on and this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about, including us, including brandy campbell who is coming up with some details on what we can look forward to. living with metastatic breast cancer means i cherish my memories.

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and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate lock so your rate can never go up for any reason. so call now for free information and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. >> all right. this is the final practice for sunday's daytona 500. and the eyes of the world on this race as a lot of attention turns to some of the biggest names in sports. but will the weather hold up for this? let's go to brandy campbell at the daytona international speedway. how does it look there? >> neil, the weather today is

gorgeous. we had a cool start and the sun is coming out, giving us a little bit of warmth. unfortunately, our meteorologists are telling me in my ear there's a slight chance for rain tomorrow. i'm sure everybody will be crossing fingers and knocking on wood. right now, if you can hear the track, they're circling us, right now qualifying and they're out here on the track. it's active. no races yet, but there will be two later on. meanwhile, there's a lot of rv's that you'll see around us because that's just part of this experience. the people that come out to camp and just hang out with each other, have a good time and of course, watch the 500 and that's going to happen tomorrow. so, all day we've just been roaming around, talking to folks and seeing what this experience is really like, also cooking with folks, or checking out some of the free experiences if you're not inside of the infield, and operate other side of the stands, you can come and do some stuff for free and interact with some of the drivers in this race.

but it's just really been a good day out here and of course, some good weather, neil. neil: and it looks like some good food, brandy. thank you very much. brandy campbell on that. meanwhile, we want to just sort of put this altogether for you as we wrap up the show. and i want you to think about this, what is the difference between norfolk southern and handling this whole derailment problem out in ohio, and johnson & johnson handling the tylenol tampering cases of the early 1980's? it's a world of difference. we'll explore and explain. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

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>> why are you here? >> i'm here to support the community and if you'll excuse me, that's where i'm headed

right now to be with some community members. thank you. >> thank you so much. neil: well, to hear some residents tell it, they're glad he's here, the guy that works for norfolk southern railroad, alan shaw arrived. and a lot of people are saying what took you so long. this is not exactly the immediate response we saw for johnson & johnson. for those of a certain age you might remember the tylenol scare in the early 1980's. johnson & johnson had nothing to do with the tampering of dozens of people that were killed over two separate waves, but they took it into their own hands. and got rid of the capsules the way we sent pain relievers to our stomach and changed them off the shelves worldwide, at a great cost to them. the story on that, when all was said and done, the company's response was so praised that it

had a greater share of the pain relief market than it did prior to the tampering scandal. so, lessons that could be learned here for norfolk southern. dave dodson, graduate stanford school of business professor extraordinare and remembers, as young as he looks, maybe that johnson & johnson lesson. what do you think? i mean, still early, norfolk southern hasn't botched things, it's late in responding to things. what do you think? >> i'm sorry, neil, i think when they were faced with their moment of truth, i give them a failing grade. they really failed. this is not a legal issue, this is a leadership issue and this is what happens when something happens like this and you bring your lawyers together for advice. the first thing they should have done is he should have gotten all of his executives together, told them to take off their ties, tell their families they'll be back in quiet a while, and got a box of pens and pads of paper and gone door-to-door and talked to people. the first thing people needed to know in east palestine is

that they were listening, because before, their immediate response was to give answers, if they want to take you to the back yard to see the soot and the debris on their swing set, you go in the back yard. and then after that, you come back and this is what tylenol did or johnson & johnson, which is what norfolk hasn't done, you say what would be a appropriate response given what we've learned from the people in east palestine and when you have that together, then you say the simple thing, you use the power of 10, you say, okay, now tell me what it would look like if we did 10 times that response and that's where they failed. neil: that's interesting. i remember jim burke, the former ceo covered that story 40 years ago, hard to believe. and the one thing that was being debated in the board room, well, you know, boss, it's really not our fault that someone contaminated these pills. he says well it's on us now and we have to do something now. now, what he did was so sweeping and expensive, it was unprecedented, but it worked. and the company still enjoys

this solid reputation today. this is a tough time for norfolk southern to get over the initial bad first impression. >> yeah, i mean, you know, that was what johnson & johnson did and burke did, he used the power of 10. i think he actually did two things. one, he used the power of 10 and the second thing, i believe in my heart what he thought at every response, he said, how will i be remembered by my children by how i handled the situation not how i will be remembered by my shareholders or by my lawyers, and that, again, neil is the difference between leadership and making this a legal matter. and if you want to build a great company, you need to be able to lead and that is part of where they're failing right now. and the other thing is that you don't just check the box with an apology. they have been wronged. okay, we don't know exactly everything that's happened yet, but they've been wronged. you apologize until they're ready to accept your apology. and if you don't know the

answer to a question, you say i'm sorry, mr. smith, i don't know the answer to that, but i care about it and i will get back to you when i can. neil: that's very well-put, dave. you're right. we'll see what happens here. to dave's point though you don't get a second chance to make a good first impression, but you do get an ongoing chance to make up for the fact that you didn't. that will do it. was hiring local talent. if i knew about upwork. i would have hired actually talented people from all over the world. instead of talentless people from all over my house. not that into saving, are you? -whoa, dude... -money. cuz... cuz you paid too much for those glasses. next time, go to america's best where two pairs and a free, quality eye exam start at just $79.95. book an exam today at americasbest.com. ♪ come here! you know why people are always looking at their phones? they're banking, with bank of america. see cousin jimmy over there? his girlfriend just caught the bouquet so...

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>> the white house finally sending fema resources to east palestine, ohio today after the agency initially denied the ohio governor's request for federal relief. welcome to fox news live. i'm griff jenkins. jacqui: i'm jacqui heinrich. and alan shaw just finished meeting in east palestine, including with bil