e credit cards. then, pay off your car loan. and then take the cash left over and put it in the bank for the financial security that every veteran deserves. >> john: begin at 2:00 with the unintended consequences of going soft on crime. a community fed up and furious and now st. louis's top prosecutor out of a job. welcome back as "america reports" rolls into hour two. i'm john roberts, nice to spend thursday with you. >> jacqui: good to be with you, john. jacqui heinrich in for sandra smith. kim gardner forced out after facing an ultimatum after she was accused of turning a blind eye on a ticking time bomb career criminal set free on bond and he caused a crash that left a teenager fighting to survive. chief correspondent jonathan

hunt has more on the story for us. what can you say? >> well, jacqui, the missouri attorney general is trying to force out kim gardner. he has not actually done so yet. he had given her until noon local time to resign and having not received that resignation at 12:01 central time he began the legal process to have her removed. the a.g. saying gardner has been negligent in her duties as circuit attorney and has repeatedly let down the people of st. louis. >> this is about the rule of law and about justice. instead of protecting victims, which is her obligation, she's creating more victims by neglect in office. >> the final straw for the a.g. appears to have been an incident over the weekend in which 17-year-old janay edmonson, in town for a volleyball terrific was horrifically injured as a result of a car crash on this security camera video that

happened as she walked downtown with her family. she lost both her legs when she was pinned between two vehicles. the driver who caused the crash was named as 21-year-old daniel riley. he was out on bond and on house arrest over an august 2022 robbery case. and court records show he had violated that house arrest order dozens of times. since the incident and gardner's response blaming the judge for allowing riley to be out on bond, other officials have also weighed in. the democrat mayor of st. louis saying gardner needs to "take some accountability" and the republican missouri governor telling reporters today he backs the call for gardner's resignation, given a pattern of rising crime in st. louis. >> people want to feel safe when they walk down the street. want the kids to be safe and you have to take bad people off the streets. we have to quit doing what we are doing, it's not working, and

it's the perfect example of why. >> now, gardner, who came into office as part of a wave of progresstive prosecutors backed by billionaire george soros has scheduled her own news conference for 3:30 eastern this afternoon, which we will presumably learn, john and jacqui, when she is going to step aside voluntarily or whether she is going to fight this legal attempt to have her removed. jacqui. >> jacqui: jonathan, can you explain for us, they are calling for her to resign, she's not doing it. what's the process here in actually removing her from her position? >> well, the missouri attorney general has to go to the courts, he has not have the right to remove her, so he goes to the courts and begins this process but may by his own admission take some time. he says he wants it to happen as quickly as possible, but again, this is a legal process. he said himself it could take

days, it could take weeks. if you talk to some legal experts, it could take months. the important point in about 19 minutes we will hear from kim gardner herself and we will find out whether she is going to fight and if so, how hard she's going to fight, jacqui. >> jacqui: very interesting, we'll be watching for her posture. jonathan hunt, thank you so much. >> john: more violence allegedly at the hands of a career criminal who should have never been out free. on the right side of the screen, 19-year-old man suspected of going on a shooting rampage that left three dead and two injured within just a few hours. among the victims, 9-year-old child and 24-year-old news reporter gunned down while he was simply doing his job. that suspect no stranger to police. lengthy rap sheet from battery and assault charges to gun and grand theft charges. phil keating is live in miami with the latest from the suspect's first court appearance.

phil, have police found a motive yet? seems to be elusive at this point. >> it's very elusive and will only come out if the guy starts explaining to investigators why he did this shooting rampage. tragic one, the sheriff just updated his investigation a couple hours ago, and he says 19-year-old suspect is a known gang member with quite a long list of previous arrests, including gun charges, aggravated battery, and assault, but most of the crimes he was accused of committing all happened when he was a juvenile. the central florida spectrum news reporter who was shot and killed at the scene of an earlier murder was doing his job. dylan lyons, engaged to be married. the photographer he was with, jesse walden was also shot and remains in critical condition but is talking with detectives. this started wednesday morning with a 38-year-old woman shot

and killed in her car. the news crew responded, pulled up on to the scene, and were then shot in their news vehicle as another orlando local news station crew was on the scene witnessing the entire thing. according to investigators, this is the killer, 19-year-old keith moses, now facing several felonies, including three counts of first-degree murder. his first court appearance was waived this afternoon, but the judge did deny any bond for him. after the news crew was shot, the sheriff says moses then ran down the street into a nearby house, shooting a mother and her 9-year-old daughter, killing the little girl. all three crime scenes were seemingly random and unrelated except for the one connection, the suspect. the state attorney for the orlando area explained why this guy was out on the street and not in jail. >> this individual's only adult offense was a possession of

marijuana, 4.6 grams of marijuana, that my office did not charge. >> basically that was such a small quantity of marijuana that police don't even test it to see if it is marijuana, and so the prosecutor said we couldn't prove the case. anyway, unless this suspect, moses, starts confessing and talking to detectives while behind bars, the sheriff says we may never actually know what this motive was. john. >> john: yeah, i mean -- gosh, phil, how many of those crime scenes have you been out to and you know, you never think of something horrible like that happening. wow. just really is amazing. >> i know, it's -- it's really sad. >> john: phil, thanks so much. and jacqui, we both grew up -- i was in miami at the criminal scenes literally every night, and never thought somebody who

perpetrated the crime would take a shot at us. >> jacqui: in las vegas, shots were flying and did not come near us, it does go through your mind. the young promising journalist, 24-year-old dylan lyons killed, it's heartbreaking. you feel for his family and co-workers, you are out doing a job you love. people don't get into the news for the money, especially local news, and to have his life cut short while he's doing his job is shameless. >> and the reporter and photographer in virginia not long ago both shot by a gunman who came along and shot them while she was on the air live. horrible, horrible stuff. turning the page here, chicago's mayor's race could turn on the city's out of control crime. lori lightfoot facing an uphill battle, eight other candidates

on the ballot, and critics say she is a failure. crime has skyrocketed 60% under her watch, robbery, sexual assault and other crimes spiking. nine candidates in the mayor's race. lori lightfoot says it's bound to go to a run-off, some challengers are saying she may not make it to that run-off. what do you think? >> yeah, it's -- depending on the poll you look at, she's in either second or third place. the election will take place next tuesday and if no candidate gets 50 plus 1% of the vote, then to a run-off that takes place of the top two candidates will go to a run-off that takes place five weeks later on april 4th. and right now, a good chance lightfoot may not make the run-off. other candidates in the race, garcia, and johnson, have both

been surging in the poll, and so again, she's right on the cusp of being defeated as an incumbent mayor, first time in chicago history. >> john: continues to run in third place, almost a certainty she would not make it to the run-off. look at crime in chicago, a huge issue for so many people, at least two of the people who are her prime contenders are running on a law and order pro police platform. put it up on the screen for you. chew garcia wants to increase the number of police officers, and support from the chicago fraternal order of police. brandon johnson, you also mentioned, is endorsed by the chicago's teachers' union and lori lightfoot has been battling the teachers' union. look at the opposition against her, how prominent issue do you think crime is going to be? >> there's no question the number one issue, one poll had it over 70%, number one issue on

the minds of voters. 63% of those in chicago do not feel safe and an issue that has spread not just -- homicides are down, but violent crime, carjackings, robbery, up across the city, including places in much more affluent neighborhoods, magnificent mile, lincoln park, it has touched a ton of voters in the chicago area and as you mentioned, paul vallas, leading in the polls, his prominent message is battling crime and law and order and brandon johnson who is a defund the police guy, he sponsored a resolution in the cook county board and so lori lightfoot is getting attacked from both sides. he's muted that recently, he's talking about more in the police department and not taking funds away from the police department,

but no question, every campaign stop, debate going on, is all about the issue of crime. and lightfoot the mayor for 4 year and not doing the job to the, i guess the sufficiency of the voters that are out there. >> john: she recently famously told voters on the south side if they were not going to vote for her, she shouldn't vote at all. she's walking that back a bit, if i said anything other than everyone needs to vote i misspoke in the heat of the campaign rally. but saying everybody needs to step up and need to vote just as i said today. here is what she said when she was talking to people, if they voted for chewy garcia or paul vallas, said if you want them controlling your fate and your destiny, then stay home. then don't vote. i mean, it's kind of hard to walk that back. >> yeah, it is, and she was speaking to the south side largely african american audience, paul vallas is the

only white candidate in the race, chewy garcia the only latino in the race, explicit play of the race card and she was heavily criticized for that and walked it back. it gives you a sense of how desperate she is in this situation. she has spent more money than any other candidate, attacking all the other candidates in every direction, including as i mentioned trike to tamp down brandon johnson's surge from her left. we'll see what happens in a week. she has a chance to make the run-off, it's a possibility, but looking bleaker and bleaker by the day. >> could always, as the song says, "just dance." jacqui. >> jacqui: dramatic day in the testimony of the murdaugh murder trial. and it is not over yet. we are expecting disgraced lawyer and accused killer alec murdaugh to return to the stand and testify more in his own defense. we'll have it more you live. >> john: also the united states walking a thin line between

sending aid to taiwan and not angering china. will a recent increase in u.s. troops help the island nation or will it be seen as a provocation? >> as we would with any nuclear arm superpower, we have to proceed with great caution and make sure we don't needlessly provoke any sort of conflict between the two countries. worko build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.

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>> jacqui: officials report the u.s. is quadrupling troops to taiwan. just returned from a secret trip and had this to say. >> my concern is we are not

moving fast enough to learn and implement. arm our friends and partners before it's too late. >> jacqui: jennifer griffin has the latest on this story. >> fox news has confirmed biden administration plans to send 100 to 200 troops to taiwan for training amid rising tensions with china, according to a u.s. official familiar with the decision. the news was first reported by the wall street journal. this number will expand a much smaller training program which has included the national guard, special ops and u.s. marines in the past. michigan national guard will train a contingent of the taiwanese army, including some training as part of larger exercises on u.s. soil, reminiscent of the training u.s. gave to ukrainian troops for years after russia took crimea in 2014, a key factor that has allowed the ukrainians to hold off the russian invasion that

began a year ago. navy secretary gave the following warning about china's navy this week. >> we do need a larger navy, more ships in the future, more modern ships in particular that can meet that threat. unfortunately, china does have a significant advantage. >> china's navy could field up to 400 ships in coming years, up from the about 340 they have now, according to secretary del toro. the u.s. has fewer than 300 ships. u.s. navy announced it is retiring eight combat ships, even though they are new. the ships had repeated engine failures and technical problems in an anti-submarine system intended to counter china's growing naval capacity. meanwhile, the marines could not send a large crisis response unit to turkey after its devastating earthquake because there were not amphibious ships in the region.

general david berger said in a recent interview with defense one, we expect the biden administration to announce another $2.25 billion insistance to ukraine and we have also just learned the treasury department will be bringing more sanctions against russia that will also include chinese entities active in evading sanctions. jacqui. >> jacqui: thanks so much. >> john: this evening will mark one year since russia fired the first shots in the invasion in ukraine. the defense minister says they expect the russian president to launch a barrage of missiles to mark the occasion, and believes ukraine will soon have one of the biggest military requests fulfilled. trey yingst to watching as we tick toward the anniversary. live in kyiv with more. trey. >> john, good afternoon. today we spoke with ukraine's defense minister just hours before the one-year mark in the war. he discussed a variety of topics, but focused in on one specific thing, fighter jets,

and he has this to say about the situation. >> and the same question we discussed with the partners, how long it will take training the pilot, with the experience, with their understanding of battlefield behavior, etc., etc. so it should be pragmatic decision. but god willing it could be done probably one month. >> you think you'll get fighter jets in a month? >> yeah, yes. >> how will that change the course of this conflict? >> again, it will strengthen our air defense capabilities and it will help us to deter russians in their positions and switch them or shift them on defending position. it help us to ruin their stocks, their fuel depot, their

reserves. >> the defense minister also spoke about the expectations for the one-year mark in the war, he believes they will fire cruise missiles and drones, but says ukraine is ready. >> jacqui: and we just heard at the white house, press secretary asked about all of this tensions with china, ongoing conflict with russia and ukraine and what that means for where the world is right now. take a listen to her answer in the white house briefing room. >> question on ukraine and china. you have the major regions of the world involved directly in the war in ukraine, europe, you know, north america, the middle east, asia, what are the president's plans to bring us back from the brink of world war ii kind of scenario here. >> i think what you have seen

the president do this past week speaks to the unwavering -- the unwavering support that you have seen for ukraine, not just from the united states, the nato allies, the west, and how europe has been unified. and we have to remember, we have to go back in time just a little bit to see where we were just almost a year ago where the expectation was that nato would crumble. the expectation was that kyiv would fall. that was what was expected and being reported. that russia was going to take over ukraine, and it has not happened, and that is because of the strength that we have seen of the alliance and the partnership that we have seen, and that's what the president was there for this week to continue to show that and as we move forward, as we move towards the next several months, and so that's what is important, nato is strong, unwavering support is strong. >> john: all right, let's bring in the former u.s. ambassador to

nato, kurt volker. pick up where she left off there, sure ukraine has captured back territory russia has had its assets in but not much has moved in the last few months except a lot of people are dying and china is on the verge of jumping in by supplying weapons to russia. where do you think we are headed here, kurt? >> i think what we see now, russia trying to get more and more people into the military forces, they are doing mass mobilization, getting people out of prisons and throwing them to the front line and suffering enormous casualties, and it cannot go on on the russian side. and they are not succeeding and advancing. a year ago john we were looking at the studio of the maps of the russian columns of tanks and vehicles, ukraine has taken back over half of what the russians have taken since the war began

and later on this summer as some equipment arrives, tanks promised, longer range artillery shells and hopefully the defense minister is right, aircraft as well, i think it will give ukraine the opportunity to push through and isolate crimea and make advances in the east again. that's going to cause the russians to think what the strategy is now. >> kurt, this report the biden administration is considering downgrading intelligence to show that china is weighing this decision of whether or not to send material aid. do you think that they should do that? they did that when it came to russia and their plans to invade ukraine, and it helped sort of solidify in the public's mind you cannot believe what russia is saying. what should they do with the china situation? >> different situations, to be honest. russia invading ukraine, no one

believed it, ien the ukrainians were skeptical, so important to get people mobilized to defend themselves. the right call. in this case with china, i appreciate there is intelligence but i think the better call here, our target audience is not the allies, our target audience this time is china to get them not to do it. and i think there we are better off engaging them privately, telling them what we know, telling them what the consequences would be, and seeing if we can walk them back from that. >> john: the deputy press secretary said this about china's potential involvement. >> there will be consequences for china should this partnership with russia further deepen. they would certainly be a miscalculation of china to provide lethal aid to china. >> do you think it's to help putin take over ukraine, deplete the stockpile of u.s. weapons so china could roll into taiwan, is it both or something else? >> i think it is something else.

i think it is about china establishing itself in the minds of the world as a great power, a peace broker. someone that everyone has to take into account, and in some ways surplanting the united states. the u.s. rightly has sided with ukraine in this, but china says they are going to negotiate a peace in the war. will china send arms to russia, i doubt it. i don't think they want to risk sanctions from the u.s. and europe and don't want china's ambitions on taiwan to be anywhere equated with russia's attacks on ukraine. they see they're desire to absorb taiwan as legitimate, it's not a member of the state of the u.n., not an independent state by most countries, they want to make sure they keep some distance between their ambitions and their neighborhood and what russia is doing. >> jacqui: the question is if they do end up supplying material aid to russia's war, how does the u.s. respond, how

does nato respond. what we are seeing right now is the u.s. deploying troops to taiwan, to train their military so that they are able to defend themselves and this question of whether going too far becomes provocative, something that this administration has wrestled with with the russian invasion. i want to read for you one line from one of the pentagon officials. said one of the difficult things to determine is what is really objectionable to china. we don't think the levels we are engaged in and are likely to remain engaged in in the near future, that we are anywhere close to a tipping point for china, but a question evaluated and looked at involving support to taiwan. what do you make of that? >> yeah, this is a tough one, and i think there's a flip side danger to this. doing too little is being, going to be seen as weakness, and weakness is also a type of provocation. so what i think is best, teddy

roosevelt had it right. speak softly and carry a big stick, and people will see it but you don't have to be provocative in the rhetoric and the way we do things. and i think china is very different, very different country from russia. russia is really a thugaucracy, people in the kremlin are only worried about amassing power and exercising it over others. china is really a country and trying to develop as a country. they feel they are a rising power, that's a different animal for us to engage with. we need to show strength and resolve and do it calmly. >> john: also making all our stuff, kurt. so if push comes to shove, some consequences for us. >> we have to watch the economy in both directions. thank you, john. >> john: appreciate your time. minutes away from alec murdaugh taking the stand again testifying in his own defense at the murder trial of his wife and son. before breaking for lunch, he

became emotional as he insisted he did not murder his wife and son. but will that be enough to convince the jury? we'll go live to the trial just as soon as it resumes. >> jacqui: a monster storm making its mark across the nation, causing problems for millions. we'll go live in the elements and tell you where this thing is headed next. with an affordable home loan from newday and save hundreds every month. there are no upfront fees to apply. good news! a new clinical study showed that centrum silver supports cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. hi, i'm lauren, i lost 67 pounds in 12 months on golo. golo and the release has been phenomenal in my life. it's all natural.

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your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. >> jacqui: democrats are blasting president biden for his shockingly inhumane border proposal, make migrants in eligible for asylum in the u.s. if they pass through other countries and do not seek it there first. they say it would be temporary to help with the strain at the border when title 42 goes away. tom homan, former acting ice director and fox news contributor and tom you know the

border issues very well. you have said this proposal is long overdue, and i'm sure have a lot more to say about it. but my question to you is, you know, democrats are saying it's inhumane, and that it shouldn't have happened, but the border patrol says folks are still going to be able to claim asylum. clear this up for us. >> well, look, i do think, when someone claims asylum, if they are escaping, let's say, asylum from honduras, because their fear -- they have a fear of persecution from their home government, that's what asylum is. so if they get to mexico, have they not escaped that fear of persecution from their home government, of course. they should claim asylum the first free country. it's smoke and mirrors again. establish rules but so many exceptions to the rule that they don't follow the rule. they have to come to the border and say i fear more my life, and how do we disprove they fear for their life. so many exceptions to the rule

it's not going to matter. what really concerns me about this administration, why don't they do something that's already been proven effective and federal courts have said it's legal. the remain in mexico program. you don't have to worry about title 42, don't have to worry about the fake policies you are coming up with. title 42, it worked, it was a game changer, the highest court in the lands that was legal, people can still claim asylum but wait in mexico. the administration won't do it. they come up with the policies they will lose in court and they know they will, here is the game. when they lose in court, they can say well, we are solving the border crisis, now the number is back up. this is a game they are playing. the policies they are creating are unlawful, they won't work, but they are ignoring the policies that did work under the trump administration. >> how do you mean the policies they are creating are unlawful and don't work if they are accused of -- having the same policies as the trump administration you are saying

did work? explain that for me, what you mean there. >> ok. they're not the same policies. trump administration, they had the remain in mexico where you can claim asylum but wait in mexico. for instance, the parole policy, parole 30,000 people in. that's illegal. parole policy states the statute clearly says it has to be a case by case analysis based on the circumstances and the facts of each case, that must result in the significant public benefit for the country. they are not doing that. they are saying 30,000 a month are coming in. where is the case by case analysis. they will lose in court, that's why 20 states are suing 'em this. the latest policy created the rule, made all the exceptions to the rule, so the trump administration did it differently. they established a program where you can still claim asylum but wait outside the country. this administration is creating a policy where we are going to make illegal immigration legal and bring you through the port of entries. it's not going to work, they are

going to lose. >> jacqui: how do you respond to senate democrats saying they are deeply disappointed they are using the proposal rule, perpetuates the harmful myth that they are against the administration. and foot on american soil you have the right to claim asylum, and they are upset about the policy. what's your response to that? >> first of all, they want completely open boards. and the democrats, i will say this. look at the data. immigration court data says nine out of ten people who claim asylum never get relief. don't show up or qualify. nine out of ten. that means millions will be removed. they also know this, homeland security report says if not detained, only 6% will leave. the millions that lose their case are never leaving, they are going to win and wait for the next amnesty, so the democrats

want to pick a side in the issue, look at the facts. the facts says nine out of ten commit asylum fraud. they don't qualify, and they are clogging up the system for thousands of people around the world that really are escaping fear and persecution and need united states assistance. data shows it's a massive asylum fraud and they need to deal with that and secure the border. securing the border saves lives. securing the border ensures only those with real asylum claims will get processed, such as remain in mexico. you still get heard, your cases get heard, you get scheduled for court but you are not released to the united states to remain here for decades after you get ordered removed by a court. >> no one knows the border as well as you do. thanks for your time, sir. >> john: the judge in south carolina is running a tight schedule. we expected court to resume right about now and there we are back in court. alec murdaugh again on the stand

to answer questions from defense attorneys before the defense turns it over to the prosecution for cross examination, shall be say, understatement, more than interesting. listen to the court here. probably in a bit of a pause as the jury is brought in. i think the judge just gavelled things in. now, a little bit more of a pause. jacqui, when we left to break for lunch we had the extraordinary confession from alec murdaugh that he was in that video, at least his voice was heard out by the kennels after he said he was not there on the night of the murders and admitted he lied to

investigators everything that night yet he wants the jury to believe when he says he did not kill his wife and son. >> jacqui: and painting the picture of a close relationship, referring to his wife as mags, and son as paw-paw, i don't think we heard in prior tapes. >> here comes gene griffin again. >> go to june 7, 2021, meeting with gene secinger. you remember meeting her? >> i do. >> what was the meeting about? >> jeanie came up to me and asked me -- previously annette griswold had come to me and asked me about the fee check in the farris case and jeannie was coming to me and saying that she was following up on that, and if she didn't, she wouldn't be doing her job, and asked me some

questions. >> let me ask you. >> which i understood. >> briefly, the farris fee, what -- what originally happened to it? the pmpde portion of the farris fee. >> originally? >> yes, sir. did it come to you directly? >> yes. >> should have come to you directly? >> no. >> ok. did -- when miss secinger asked you where the fee was, what did you tell her? >> i can't remember exactly what i told her. the conversation got interrupted very quickly but i told jeannie that the funds were in chris wilson's account and nothing to worry about. i didn't know where the mix-up came from. >> what -- what was your level of concern about miss secinger's

inquiry to you on june 7th? >> there was some level of concern because she's asking me about money that i took that i wasn't supposed to have, so certainly i had some level of concern but it wasn't -- it wasn't a very big concern. as you heard testimony earlier, a the some point annette griswold had sent chris wilson an email, something to the effect of alec thinks he has more expenses or something like that seeking financial documents from chris wilson. when chris wilson -- i was not copied on that. but when chris wilson got that, he called me up and he's like, you know, what -- what is this all about? >> [inaudible]

>> pardon? >> i said objection, rules 801 and 802, your honor. >> response? >> your honor, i'm not asking for what chris wilson said, i'll move on. accept the objection. >> objection sustained. >> were you concerned about chris wilson opening his trust account records to your law firm? >> no, i was not concerned about that at all. >> and why were you not concerned? >> i knew one of the people that chris wilson -- as you heard, chris wilson and i were very close. we talked every day. i did work with him all the time and i mean, he was one of the people closest to me in the whole world. i knew everything about him, and i knew he was going through -- one of his partners, and he and his partner had split up, a partner and associate had moved to a firm in charleston. the partner was going through a

divorce and the wife of the partner was trying to get chris wilson's trust documents in that case to find out money her husband -- didn't have anything to do with chris and i or anything, totally had to do with that, but i knew that chris wilson was not going to send any financial documents to my law firm at least at that time and at least not any time soon. so -- while i'm sure it registered with me that i got to deal with this, at that particular time, it was not anything that was a big deal. >> was there an immediate urgency to the situation on june 7th? >> no. >> and i believe there's miss secinger testified, you learned your dad was going back in the hospital. >> that's correct.

there was a text, i can't remember if that text came from my brother randy or my brother john, but they were the ones that were taking my dad back to the hospital that day, and whichever one was with him, i believe it was john was with him at the hospital but i know randy was with him in treatment, send those documents. bottom line we got a text saying we knew my dad was really sick, he had cancer and he couldn't breathe, and there was a big issue about whether his inability to breathe was coming from an obstruction caused by the cancer, which was the worst case scenario, and that's what it ended up being ultimately and what he died from, but this particular text was saying ok, we are putting him back in the hospital, the doctor thinks it's pneumonia, and -- which was, you know, i mean, pneumonia is never a good thing but when compared to cancer, at that time pneumonia, that was a good thing

to learn that. >> on the 7th the information you had, i mean, you believed at that time that the prognosis was pretty positive for your father? >> well, it was better than the alternative. i'm not going to say it was good but it was better than -- it was better than the alternative and what we previously thought it was. it didn't stay good very long, but -- definitely was better. >> do you know whether or not you told miss secinger that you're dad's condition was terminal on the 7th. do you remember whether you said that or not? >> no, i wouldn't have said that at that time, and when i -- you know, jeannie, as soon as the thing comes through my dad's going in the hospital, jeannie and i, as you heard, i mean, she stopped the meeting. we stopped it. it lasted a couple minutes. now, my dad's going in the hospital and the very next day

we learned that he's terminal, and i'm -- i'm just sure that a year, or the amount of time that's gone by -- jeannie assumes he was terminal. >> speculation, your honor. >> objection is overruled. >> mr. murdaugh, the -- on june 7th, did you believe that your financial house of cards was about to crumble? >> on june 7th? >> yes, sir. >> absolutely not. >> had you had, i think there's a document in evidence, state introduced it, had you reached out to russell lafitte extending a line of credit on the moselle

property? >> i had reached out to him, i don't remember the date of it, i reached out to russell. >> on june 7th, did you have equity in the moselle property that, or you and maggie had equity in the moselle property? >> sure. and i mean, moselle was fully in maggie's name. >> okay. >> but yes, there was equity in moselle. and looking at the documents that had been used, there was a million $800,000 owed, there was an appraisal for 3.3 million without timber value, and so on 1700 acres, you know, i don't know what the timber value was, but if you just said $1,000 an acre, that would be another million something dollars in value over and above the appraisal. i doubt the timber value was

that high, i'm using that as example. 500, another $800,000. so, several million dollars in equity in that moselle property. >> all right. and did you have equity in the edisto beach house? >> yes. >> how much equity in the beach house? >> if i remember the records correctly, there was about $250,000 owed on that house, and whatever the value was at the time. i think -- i think there's a contract for just under a million dollars, so -- 700 something thousand dollars. >> did maggie's death make it more difficult to obtain financing immediately after the

murder, around june 7, 8th? >> maggie's -- yes. >> how so? >> because the entire moselle property was 100% in maggie's name. the edisto property was 50% in maggie's name, i was only a half owner. so with maggie, all i had to do was to get her to sign the documents, which she always did. she didn't question finances. so i mean, she signed the papers. when maggie wasn't here there was estate issues -- i couldn't go and sign the papers like i would normally go and get a loan. so i couldn't. >> ok.

i want -- was there -- hearings scheduled in the boating lawsuit where you were a defendant set for that week? >> yes. >> do you remember what day it was scheduled for? >> well, i mean, i've heard the testimony and i knew -- i'm sure i knew at the time it was june 10th. thursday, june 10th. >> what was your level of concern about that hearing coming up on june 10th? >> about the hearing? >> yes, sir. >> my level of concern about that hearing was about the venue motion that was coming up, which -- >> what do you mean by venue? >> venue motion is -- venue is

where a civil lawsuit is pending and so there's laws and rules that govern where you can bring a case. there's laws and rules that govern how certain parties, a defendant or a plaintiff, can go about trying to move it from one place to another. so in this case the plaintiffs, the beach family, had filed suit in hampton county. parkers was trying to move venue to beaufort county. i wanted the case to stay in hampton county. and really that was my only thought about -- i wasn't doing the legal work on those. i was a party in that case. i wasn't -- danny henderson was primarily representing me personally, john tiller, and amy

bauer were presenting me personally, and dallas cook was representing me personally and those were the guys who were doing the legal work. so i wasn't actually doing that work, but what i was concerned about was the venue motion. i had already done what i had to do for the financial motion and danny henderson was on me about getting him a financial statement because -- >> let's stop -- so there was a motion to compel and seek a lot of financial records from you, is that correct? >> absolutely. >> and were you concerned that your house, financial house was going to be opened up for the world as a result of that hearing? >> no. i've been a plaintiff's lawyer like mr. tinsley that sat here, we do the same exact thing. and my law firm, the guys in my

law firm are some of the best lawyers i've ever known and definitely some of the best lawyers in the state, handling some of the biggest cases that have ever gone on in this state. in my 27 years of practicing, plaintiffs always are trying to look and get financial documents of corporate defendants, of, you know, those type things, and my 27 years i've never been able to get a judge to order anything more than a net worth statement prior to getting into a phase at trial. so early on in the case i am not aware of -- i personally have never, despite trying repeatedly, have never been able to get a judge to order the kind of information that mark tinsley

was saying he was seeking. >> were you working on a document for that upcoming hearing? >> yes. >> and what was that? >> a financial statement. financial statement lists your assets and your liabilities. >> and had you reached out to jeannie secinger on the 7th to get your current balance of your retirement account? >> you know, i don't remember doing that but that would certainly be something that i did, and because i know i had to have that for that financial statement, and the document that i prepared was what mark ball talked about that he found later in my office. and it was typed -- handwritten, ready to be typed up by -- because of the charges against paul, i was so -- i kept everything very close in the civil case. it was danny and his office that

was doing it and i had that document prepared, handwritten in the neatest handwriting that i could make because a secretary other than mine, a paralegal other than mine was going to be the person who was going to put those -- that financial information into the final document. and that's the document that mark ball talked about that he found on my desk whenever it was that he found it. so that is what was going to be, if necessary, what was going to be used thursday. >> the jury has heard about testimony of you stealing client funds. did you do that? >> i did. >> did you steal or divert that fee away from the law firm? >> i did