>> thanks so much for watching. we'll watch one nation at 8:00. >> i'll be on sean hannity's show night. bye, everyone, have a great weekend. >> bill: good morning. we expect more dramatic testimony in matter of minutes in the alex murdaugh murder trial when it gets back underway today. he will be on the stand. the lawyer, disgraced lawyer accused of killing his wife and son is on the stand. he was there for hours yesterday. we'll monitor that and bring you coverage as it gets underway in south carolina. there is a grim anniversary for the world to mark today. that comes out of ukraine. that country marking a full year of war with no end in sight as we say hello on this friday. i'm bill hemmer. welcome to the coverage today.

>> dana: i'm dana perino. this is "america's newsroom." a year can feel slow and can also go by very quickly. i think that if you are there as a civilian life feels very slow. it's one year to the day since russia declared war on ukraine. what many expected to be a quick invasion is a protracted and bloody conflict as the ukrainian army is holding its ground against the much larger russian military. >> bill: 8,000 civilians killed. more than 8 million driven from their homes. 100,000 ukrainian soldiers either killed or wounded in that battle. >> dana: right now at the white house president biden is meeting virtually with president zelensky and leaders of the g7. the administration announced another $2 billion in military aid and a new round of sanctions that are designed to punish those funding putin's invasion.

>> bill: despite the headlines some say the u.s. should be doing more today. >> the only explanation is that we've been self-deterred and so afraid of putin's reaction that he may escalate. after 12 months of bluster we see none of it from putin. we can't be self-deterred. ukrainian people are paying the price. if we would provide them what they want and need we could at least push them out of ukraine. far less costly in terms of our financial support and more importantly the lives and property of the ukrainian people if we would provide it quicker. >> dana: former ambassador to ukraine william taylor is here with reaction. jacque heinrich is at the white house. >> not just the new military assistance but the sanctions that are expected -- hoped to pack a significant punch. we are seeing more than 90 companies including some in china now being targeted for sanctions evasion and backfilling russia's defense

sector. the move is going to stop these companies from buying things like semi conductors made with u.s. technology abroad. another 200 individuals and entities in russia, europe, asia and the middle east are being sanctioned including banks and u.s. is raising tariffs of russian products. artillery, laser-guided rockets, drones, mine clearing and communications equipment from the u.s. in the background is looming concern about stockpiles. >> the consumption of art illry shells is higher than our production. so far we have depleted our stocks but this is not sustainable and we need to supply ukrainians every day with what they need to be able to continue to make gains on the battlefield. >> now china is trying to play neutral arbiter here calling for

a political settlement to the war. the peace plan includes respecting the sovereignty of all country, a cease-fire and the and of western sanctions on russia. being met with skepticism in the u.s. administration considering whether to drown grade intelligence to prove china is considering providing lethal aid to russia for the war. >> china is trying to have it both ways. trying to present itself as neutral and seeking peace while at the same time talking up russia's false narrative about the war. as i said providing non-lethal assistance to companies and contemplating lethal assist answer. >> a german newspaper reports russia and china are in talks about strike drones. that's concerning after russia pulled out of negotiations to renew the last remaining nuclear arms control agreement with the

u.s. known as the start treaty. >> dana: jacque heinrich at the white house. thank you. >> we're moving back from the front. the ukrainian unite we were with st started to take incoming artillery rounds. ow craneian officials say russian forces are operating inside the city limits of kiev. people will not roll over or back down. >> the stench of death is unbearable here in the church yard. >> bill: our journalists on the ground bearing witness to a brutal invasion. former u.s. ambassador to ukraine william taylor, thank you for coming back. thank you for accepting our invitation to come on. $2 billion today, 500 million the other day in kiev. and still there is a long way to go. can ukraine win this war?

>> ukraine can win this war. it depends a lot on us. we've been providing, as you've been reporting, a lot of weapons, a lot of other support. that's what's needed. the ukrainians are doing the fighting and they are fighting very well as you have also reported. and ukrainians are now preparing for an offensive. a counter offensive against the russians. the russians are starting to push. they've got their offensive going and not going well, the russian offensive. ukrainians are preparing with these new weapons and tanks that are coming first from the europeans and those new units, those new military units that the ukrainians are quipping and training will be able to break through the russians i believe. when that happens it could be decisive. thats the way ukraine could win. >> dana: josh rogan is talking

about how and when it could end. this is one of the things he is advocating. this is the year in order to make this not last for a decade. this is the year that will be decisive. the biden administration is wrong, time is not on ukraine's side. the first thing you will hear from any ukrainian is thank you. ukrainians are not ungrateful for greedy but trying to survive. their desperation is increasing. as long as it takes must not become an excuse for -- next year there might not be a ukraine to save. in order to get the russians to think about ending it seems to me there has to be something more than gets them there. they will throw bodies at it. they don't care. is this the year to try to get it done? >> dana, this is the year. i would even say this is the six months that the ukrainians can break through. ukrainians can push back. they can convince the russians, can demonstrate to the russians

the russians cannot win on the battlefield. ukrainians -- all they want, dana, all they want is the russians out of their country. and what we should say is we support that. the united states and nato supports a ukrainian win, victory. that means the russians out of their country. that can happen. that can happen in six months if we provide the weapons and the support and the background, the training, the intelligence that they need. that can happen. >> bill: there was a suggestion that we are arming ukraine to the point where they will enter into negotiations with russia. do you buy that theory? if not, then why not give them the f-16s starting now? >> so we should provide them the weapons they need right now. the f-16s, you're right. that will come. that's for the next phase. that's for the after the victory

phase. that's for the phase where ukraine needs to be sure that the russians don't invade again. that's when the f-16s will be there. >> bill: if they go on the offensive in the spring they need air cover and they don't have it in order to win. >> so the point is they need to have fighter jets that are in the theater now that they know how to use now. that can come. that can come. the ukrainians know how to supply their airplanes. they need more of those kind of airplanes. f-16s will come. it will take a year. so the ukrainians do need the air cover, you are absolutely right. they need the air defense to be able to shoot down the russian aircraft and missiles that are coming in. so that's important for them. but the immediate work, the six months work needs to be done with equipment, training, weapons that are in the theater right now. >> dana: ambassador bill taylor,

thank you for joining us this morning on the somber anniversary of the first year of this war. >> i think of pier and benjamin hall. we are thinking about them today and angels in heaven above as well. john kirby will talk to us next hour and what the administration is thinking. a year ago they didn't think ukraine could last three days. >> dana: you have to grieve for the civilians and those that have lost their lives and loved ones and over 10 million displaced trying to seek shelter in other countries at the moment. we move on to this. murdaugh trial will be back. >> i didn't shoot my wife or my son any time ever. i would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them. >> dana: alex murdaugh will be back on the stand in moments. he is testifying in his own defense in the double murder

trial of his wife and son. murdaugh admitted he lied to investigators during hours of emotional testimony. the cover of today's "new york post" sums it up as they do saying how to get away with murdaugh. let's go to jonathan serrie with the latest. what can we expect today? >> we'll hear more cross examination of alex murdaugh. very emotional testimony yesterday. during that testimony he admitted that he lied to investigators when he told them he had not joined his wife and son down at the family kennels just minutes before they were killed that day. that lie was exposed during the trial after family, friends, testified they could hear the defendant's voice in the background of this video that his son paul took at the time. >> alex, why did you lie to agent owen and the deputies about the last time you saw maggie and paul?

>> as my addiction evolved over time, i would get in these situations and circumstances where i would get paranoid thinking. >> the defendant insists he did not kill his wife, maggie and son, paul but admitted he stole millions of dollars from his law firms, attorneys and clients including people he says he still cares about. during cross examination the prosecution pointed to a photo of murdaugh the night paul allegedly caused a fatal boat wreck in 2019. alex is seen wearing a badge that he had obtained while serving as a volunteer for the local prosecutor's office. >> a badge has a warming effect with other law enforcement. and so if i was seeking any advantage, as you say, then i guess that would be what it was. >> cross examination is scheduled to resume at 9:30 eastern time. dana. >> dana: we'll be paying attention to that.

thank you. >> has it gotten worse in the last two years? it's a stupid question but i'll ask it anyhow. >> no question is stupid. it has exceeded anything we could have ever imagined. >> house republicans on the border in yuma, arizona hearing testimony from officials on the front line of a crisis going on for 2 1/2 years. what they revealed about toll it's taking on them. >> dana: aides for pete buttigieg accusing the white house of throwing him under the bus on the ohio trail derailment. could it do lasting damage to his political ambitions. >> bill: the race for the republican nomination. the first debate is on the calendar. what we can expect from the rs growing field of candidates. ? and still have cash left over to put in the bank? with a newday 100 va cash out loan, you could do it all.

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>> sheriff, is it your opinion that fewer americans would be dying of fentanyl poisoning if the border was as secure as it was at the start of this administration sew >> absolutely. >> bill: that's a hearing held near the border in yuma, arizona yesterday. house judiciary committee went to one of the hardest-hit areas of president biden's border crisis. not a single democrat on that panel showed up. members calling it a political stunt on behalf of republicans. bill melugin was there live yesterday. back with us today in yuma for more on what happened. hello. >> bill, good morning to you. republicans say if democrats had shown up yesterday they would have had a chance to hear testimony from the ceo of uma's largest hospital who said they're on the brink of financial collapse after having to spend so much money treating

illegal immigrants and not being paid for it. the hospital told them they're $26 million in the hole. much are pregnant migrant women's. some migrants who need months of care on dialysis with damaged kidneys from being in the desert. as a result of all this some of their local patients, local residents, u.s. citizens have had to delay their care. listen. >> we've had that experience with patients who have had to delay elective surgery because other urgent migrant patients have come in who needed emergency surgery. we've had to delay maternity patients with planned inductions because we've been out of space in maternity unit with migrant patients who have had deliveries. >> we also want to highlight this exchange between texas

congressman an the local sheriff. >> the same question i asked our former witness. are the aliens crossing illegally committing crimes across this country seth >> absolutely. >> joe biden, are you listening? mayokas, are you listening to the sheriff? >> they are not. >> as you mentioned not a single democrat on the judiciary committee showed up for the hearing or border tour yesterday. they say it is all a political stunt and weren't going to show up for it. congressman matt gaetz responded. >> we don't have a single democrat we can convince to come to this briefing to get evidence from these experts. do you think we'll get joe biden and chuck schumer to pass legislation without a fight? >> democrats on the judiciary committee say even thief they boycotted the hearing yesterday they claim they're planning their own trip to the southern

border sometime next month. see if that happens. >> bill: thank you, bill melugin live in yuma, arizona today. >> dana: tell me if you're ready for this. the republican national committee holding its first primary debate in milwaukee this august. rnc chair saying we have a long way to go but confident we'll be able to showcase our eventual nominee in a world-class fashion. kellyanne conway is here, former senior advisor to president trump. this week the field on the republican side grew by one and on the democratic side, too. but we'll stick to the republicans today. there has been some people, i saw you with great comments the other night on special report. then sean hannity is asking the candidates who want to run in the republican primary how are you different from president trump and what vivek ramaswamy said yesterday. >> what are the policy differences you have between yourself and donald trump?

>> first of all donald trump is a friend. i'm not running against him. i am running on a vision for our nation. >> you aren't running for him but against him. let's be honest. >> dana: here is another one from nikki haley and tim scott. >> probably not very many at all. i am so thankful we have president trump in office. the policies that we were able to pass in 2017 to 2020 were monumental. >> i kick forward. joe biden hasn't led. >> dana: a debate would be different. so far how do you rate this? >> senator tim scott had the perfect answer. let's be real. everyone will run on some kind of america first agenda. border security, lower crime, lower taxes, fewer regulations, putin not being the aggressor around the world, nuclear capable iran no longer salivating at israel. fair trade deals. i think senator tim scott had

the most honest and realistic and accessible answer. not a lot of policy differences. i'll show you a distinction if a difference in another way. smart to have the debate where the convention will be a year later. rnc under different leadership did the same thing in 2015. had their first two debates. the big kids table with ten candidates hosted by fox news. and then another debate with seven candidates who did not qualify important the main debate stage. 17 republican presidential candidates debating on the same day. and it is such a great opportunity for the voters, free of charge in the privacy of their own homes and screens to look at the differences in the candidates. that's direct democracy. i hope it is a competition of ideas and policies. i hope it is long on insight and short on insults no matter who makes that debate stage.

>> dana: a lot of people would share that. it is only february. as you know, time goes by fast. let me ask you about secretary pete buttigieg. this is a headline from "politico" that caught our attention. buttigieg world is frustrated at republican attacks over the train rack. a democrat said buttigieg took a lot of bullets for the president on this. that caught my attention because if you have somebody like that saying something pretty pointed towards the white house why are you throwing me under the bus? does he deserve to be under the bus and two, does this have long-term implications for pete butte buttigieg's political ambitions. >> i think they're frustrated that his presidential ambitions have been self-derailed. his response was so long in elitism and so short on empathy. you have to establish connective

tissue with people in pain. that's how you show leadership. i have no idea why it got politicized at all. i would blame them for mentioning donald trump and saying it is a photo op. you can almost see him shrugging his shoulders and flicking his wrist as if he gets to decide who is in real pain and who is not based on where a train derailed. he looked like he was forced, not coerced to show up weeks later. i would remind us all, dana, politely. this is similar to the comments coming out of the kamala harris's team and even her husband, that the second gentlemen is frustrated with his wife eva's agenda. you are the vice president of the united states. show some leadership. both of them after all of this, kind of remind us how we got joe biden as president. give him his due. i don't think the democratic

bench is very full of talent and quite ready for prime time. nobody looked at pete buttigieg in east palestine, ohio and said that's a future commander-in-chief. i want him in charge of our national security. >> dana: i hope we can have you back again and again. have a good weekend. >> bill: we're minutes away from going back inside the courtroom in south carolina. the murdaugh double murder trial set to resume at any moment now. prosecutors will continue their cross examination of the accused double killer on the stand. plus the ntsb released a preliminary report on the train derailment in east palestine calling it 100% preventable. if we know that now, what is next? ohio's governor mike dewine is our guest coming up. >> this was 100% preventable. we call things accidents, there is no accident. every single event that we

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>> bill: it is now 9:32 in the low country south carolina now, another day of bombshell testimony expected inside that courtroom. prosecutors about to resume their cross examination of alex murdaugh. he admitted to lying and stealing repeatedly for millions and millions of dollars but then staunchly denied killing his wife and younger son. prosecutors expected to press him on that today. we'll monitor that hearing in south carolina live as it happens. all right. there is this. >> upon passing the third detector with a temperature of 253 degrees above ambient, that's critical, 253 degrees above ambient. a critical alarm message sounded

instructing the crew to slow and stop the train. >> dana: ahead of the national transportation safety board revealing the train derailment in ohio was 100% preventable. the accident was caused by an overheated axle. republican ohio governor mike dewine is standing by with reaction. go to mike tobin live in east palestine, ohio. good morning, mike. >> good morning. that ntsb report is really 0ing in on a wheel on the 23rd car in the freight train. sensors along the train tracks and the wheels were getting hot. the wheel bearings heated up some 215 degrees information a 30-mile stretch. that sent an alarm to the engineer. he started braking the train, automatic brakes kicked in. by that time the wheel bearings failed and train derailed. axle and wheel were so hot the car was carrying a lot of

plastic and it caught on fire. secretary pete buttigieg arrived to inspect the scene seemingly regretful of the administration's slow response. >> i want to balance two things. my desire to be involved and engaged and on the ground, which is how i am generally wired to act. and my desire to follow the norm of transportation secretaries allowing ntsb to really lead the initial stages of the public work. whether i got that balance right. >> an informal sample of people here in east palestine are very dissatisfied with the administration's response. they say they are picking up the message that administration doesn't care. >> i think he should have been here when the evacuation was lifted. i guess that's what i think.

he should have been here sooner. >> absolutely too little too late. we have biden in ukraine handing out millions of dollars. where is he? >> it's just one aspect. it is overall. everything has just failed us. you know, he could care less about it. >> east palestine is getting a lot of attention from high-profile figures. donald trump two days ago. secretary buttigieg yesterday. today a well-known activist erin brokovich is holding a town hall there. >> bill: governor mike dewine with me now. thank you for coming on our program. ntsb was quick on the draw. a lot of times this takes several months of investigating, but they were quick to point out the factor that was involved here. if that stands, we move to an entirely different area of the story. that's whether or not it is safe for these people to live in that community. can you say today that it is?

>> if you are talking about the trains, i think we have trains running through ohio all the time and as i listened to the news conference yesterday about the causes of this train wreck, this horrific train wreck one of the things that struck me is it would certainly be very helpful to our fire departments, many times volunteer fire departments that are around of the state of ohio around the urban and rural areas that trains go with toxic material all the time. it would be helpful if the railroads would take a much more proactive role in having seminars and meetings with these fire departments. they have very little contact with these railroads and yet they are bringing this toxic material through our communities. as we've seen in east palestine, the fire department has to deal

with it. >> bill: can you say today that it is safe to live there yes or no? >> look, the water is clear, the air is clear. we've got a clinic set up for anybody who has a problem. as far as the experts that i continue to talk to they believe it is safe to live there. >> governor, thank you. i apologize about the in interraiment -- i think i probably wrongly took from clients and people that trusted me as much money before that boat wreck as after. >> all right. i'm just trying to get through it so we don't get bogged down like we did yesterday. >> i understand. >> all right. so you wouldn't agree with me that in 2019 alone you stole about $3.7 million?

>> no, i think that's correct. >> all right. would you agree with me that figure in 2019 was generally higher than any other year that you've been stealing since 2011? >> in any year, yes, i would agree. i thought overall the whole -- the whole cycle but yeah, i would agree that in 2019, i stole more money than any other year. >> would you agree with me that from 2015 on, your legitimate income while still very strong was diminishing as a general matter? >> well, i think whatever my income is speaks for itself. as a general rule, the plaintiffs lawyer doing what we do, income ebbs and flows. you have some really good years and some really lean years.

and no, i think i had some -- i think i had some good years. maybe not, you know, 4 and $5 million years but i think i had some 2 and $3 million years in there and my caseload was such that, you know, i had one of the things i was working on that monday was one of the biggest cases that i've ever been involved in. >> the dominion case. >> yes, sir. >> so i think it was cyclical. so i don't -- without looking at the records specifically, i don't necessarily agree with that. >> okay. you don't remember then. >> i do remember. i don't think i agree with that. but again those records will speak for themselves. >> all right. so would you agree with me that in 2014 your reported income was over a million dollars?

>> objection, relevance. >> objection is overruled. >> reported income like tax-wise? >> yeah. >> i assume you have a document that says that and if you are reading that from a document i don't dispute it. i trust you, mr. waters. >> appreciate that. 2015 would you agree your reported income was over $2 million? >> again, i don't dispute that. >> all right. 2016 reported income $9 hundred thousand? >> okay. >> 2017 reported income $218,000? >> okay. 2018 reported income of $749,000 roughly? >> okay. and 2019 reported income of $655,000? >> okay. to me that demonstrates what i'm talking about how it goes up and

down. >> and would you agree with me that during those periods of time where you were making that kind of money, you continued to steal. i think you've said your stealing increased as we move through those years as a general matter. >> absolutely. i don't dispute and i have never disputed since i was confronted on labor day weekend that i took money from my clients. >> we've gone through that. >> you keep asking me about that. >> i'm asking you if your income -- >> the point is, i have never since being confronted that day my brother and my partner came to talk to me that i have stolen money that did not belong to me

that i misled people to do it. people i cared about, still care about. a lot of them that i love and still love. and i misled them to do it and i was wrong. i have never disputed that from day one. >> and we've been through that. all i'm trying to establish right now with you, mr. murdaugh, is as we move toward june of 2021 what your financial condition was like. i agree you testified to that multiple times, all right? let me ask you this. during this time that your income was what we just went through and you have conceded your stealing was increasing, were you also borrowing significant amounts of money from palmetto state bank? >> yes. i always borrowed significant amounts of money from them or for the last more than the last

decade so yes, sir, i agree with that. >> as we move to june of 2021 did you have a million dollar line of credit with the bank that was pretty much maxed out as we move to june of 2021. >> so in june of 2021. >> sure. >> yes. >> and did you also have a $6 hundred thousand line of credit that was pretty much maxed out around that time? >> i did. >> all right. and did you also over the years repeatedly borrow six figures from your law partners? >> well, i borrowed money from a law partner. >> which one >> johnny parker. >> that was a fairly common occurrence over the years that happened multiple times. would you agree with that? >> i agree it happened multiple times. >> you would agree also that you would sometimes use some of the stolen money to pay that back.

>> i won't dispute that. i don't know that that's the case. i know what i saw mr. bernie testify to and using that particular accounting method, you know, i see that. so i don't dispute that. >> all right. and would you agree that you also, when you needed money occasionally borrowed as much as 5 and 6 figures from your father, mr. randolph? >> i did. >> over the years, particularly as we move to 2021 you would use stolen month en to pay that back. >> i don't dispute that. if that's what the records show. >> all right. and you just mentioned here in the testimony that the banker and all that you would agree with me that as we move to june of 2021 you were running out of money at least in liquid funds.

>> in money on hand or money i could get. >> money that you could -- liquid funds. >> i don't know what you mean by liquid. >> money you could readily access to pay your ever-increasing debts? >> no, sir, i don't agree with that. i do not agree with that and i will tell you why. in -- are we talking about june? >> as we move to june. >> but what time period are you talking about? >> let's talk about january to june. >> january to june. january to june, i could borrow money from my father, i could borrow money from johnny parker, i could go to the bank and borrow money. i had substantial equity in the house. it was in maggie and my name.

that definitely was in both of our names. moselle was in maggie's name. substantial equity in that that could have been borrowed against. so under the terms as you defined liquid assets just now, money i would have access to, i disagree with on that -- for those reasons that i just said. >> can we at least agree that generally the way the compensation structure for legitimate money you earned in your law firm, the vast majority of your compensation comes in one lump sum in december. can we agree? >> we get a salary. we would receive a salary. i believe our salary was $125,000. and then the income that was earned would be paid in the form of a bonus at the year end. >> all right. and then would you agree with me that that is why you stole the

ferris fees in march of 2021 because you were in desperate need of funds and you could not wait until december to access those funds? >> i think there is probably a lot of reasons why i stole those funds but i certainly would believe or don't dispute that that's one of the reasons. >> would you agree with me that the $792,000 that you stole of those ferris funds that you exhausted those within about two months? >> i don't know the time period but i know that they -- i know that i exhausted them. >> all right. now again i'm trying to get through this quickly. there is a lot more to talk about obviously. but we went through a number of questions yesterday about the various clients that you stole

from, correct? do you remember that? the back and forth we had yesterday, do you remember all that? >> sure i do. >> i will try to short change this but i think it's important that we at least say the names of the people that were involved. let's just do this to see if we can -- >> object to the comment. inappropriate. >> i'll rephrase, your honor. >> the clients that we're talking about, these are all real people, yes or no? >> they are real people. they are good people. they are all people that i care about. that i cared about then. and a lot of them are people that i love. >> okay. >> and i did wrong by them. >> you hurt the people you love, i know. so -- >> object to the comment.

>> sustained. >> these were all people, every single one of them that you add least had a personal conversation with at some point during the course of your representation. >> all of my clients? absolutely. i had multiple conversations with all of my clients. >> these were people, every single one of them, real people that you looked in the eye and convinced them that everything was right. >> objection, your honor, repetitive. cumu cumulative. >> proceed. >> i would have had conversations with all of my clients and at some of the conversations would have been on the telephone. i would have had conversations where i might not be looking them in the eye i would have had plenty of conversations where i did look them in the eye. >> every single one of them looked in the eye at least once, is that fair? >> sure. >> every single one of them you

looked them in the eye and developed their trust in you, is that true? >> every client that i had, at some point i looked them in the eye and i believe that i had the trust of my clients. whether it came from me looking them in the eye or not, i can't answer that. but i will agree with you that every single client i looked them in the eye and i believed that the people that i stole money from for all those years trusted me. >> i will show you what has been previously admitted at state's 329 i believe it is. and 314. i am going to ask you to peruse those spreadsheets and then i'll have 1 or 2 questions about that.

>> what was your question? >> i asked you to look at them. have you had a chance to review those documents? >> i have. >> would you agree with me that every single name on here are either clients that trusted you that you stole from, or instances in which you stole from your law partners who trusted you as well? >> i agree with that. >> we don't need to go through each one of these, correct? >> agreed. mr. waters, like i told you, i will go through whatever you want to go through but each one of those clients is just what we've already talked about. good people, fine people, upstanding people. they trusted me. every single one of them i did and i do still care about and

many of them i love and consider them close friends. >> you stole from him? >> i did. >> you recall a conversation that you had with ronnie crosby in which he told you that barrett was desperate for money because he needed his wife to stay in a hotel near him while he was undergoing treatment for terminal cancer around time you stole from him? >> objection, your honor. >> objection is overruled. >> i don't recall that conversation but i knew barrett was sick. barrett is a unique situation. barrett -- barrett is and was dear to me as a friend. but barrett and i had a long, long history.

you know, i guess -- and i lied probably more by omission and stealing that money but that's a perfect example. you keep asking about me having these conversations and looking people in the eye. that's a perfect example. when i stole that money, he was nowhere around. it was more based on lies by omission. and barrett and i had such a history in these real estate deals you're asking me about. barrett was one of my good friends and we had been in these real estate deals together. barrett was just an interesting person. a shrimper born and raised in allendale county and moved down to the coast and as -- >> i don't think we need his entire life's story. >> it is important to understand this based on the question you asked. >> i don't think his entire life story is responsive, your honor.

>> i'm just telling you background. >> tell us about your friend. that's fine. >> barrett started getting into real estate and he was really good at it so i started getting involved with him in that. he could find pieces of property that were really cheap. get them and sell them and make money. well we got in some of these deals and we got in and some other people. well, when the recession hit, one of the reasons these land deals caused me trouble is because the people i was in these deals with no longer could pay. whereas i might have gone in as a 20% person, i'm now all of a sudden either i have to default at the bank and affect credit and ability to borrow or i have to pay 100%. so that's what i did.

i paid 100%. and so there were years where i was paying instead of if fifth for a half, i'm paying the whole thing. it equated to millions of dollars, which is one of the ways where i ended up with the moselle property because i had paid more than a million dollars in monies for barrett and that was part of the deal and the trade in me purchasing moselle. >> you felt like you were entitled to steal from him. >> no. i will tell you this, that, you know, when you are doing the things wrong that i was doing you have all kind of ways of justifying it. and i'm not saying that makes it right by any means, because it is not. it's wrong. i've said that 100 times but

when i was doing it and as addicted as i was and things i was doing, there is all kind of things that you, you know, to be able to look yourself in the mirror you lie to yourself. and i guess no justification for these bad things, you know, i guess is what i was doing but barrett had owed me so much money that when i took his money, i just didn't tell him. it was a lie by omission. >> all right. all these people on these two exhibits, these are real people that needed this money, is that correct? >> i'm sure they did. >> but it was more important to you that you stole their money on top of the 40% of legal fees that you were taking. >> objection, asked and

answered, repetitive. >> i never asked that question. >> i stole their money. >> it was more important to you than their needs, is that correct? >> objection. >> objection overruled. >> i don't remember sitting down and calculating is this more important. one of the self-justifications i talked to, mr. waters. i want to make it clear, i don't -- as i sit here today i do not believe that any of this justification that i'm talking about made any of this okay because i don't. i've owned up to all this money i stole. i tried to since i was confronted and i continue here today but one of the justifications at the time when i was taking pills and doing the things i was doing was i may ask a partner how much is this case worth and if one of my partners -- i may not even give them all

the real facts, okay? so if they said this case is worth $1 hundred thousand, okay, i go out and i get them $3 hundred thousand, you know, that's one of the stupid little things okay, well, this isn't the same. that's one of those justifications that i used in looking back on this that i don't know how i did but so to sit down and say did i evaluate that they needed the money more than i did, you know, i don't think i did that. i think i was selfish and i think i just took the money. >> i think i understand. i asked you a series of questions yesterday about at least relating one conversation you had with one of these clients. i will ask you this one.

do you remember looking tony satterfield in the eye and lying to him? >> i remember lying to tony satterfield and i remember looking him in the eye on many occasions. >> and lying to him? >> yeah. >> lying to his family? >> i lied to his family. i don't know if i did it in person but i know i had phone conversations with them where i lied to them. >> okay. let's talk a little bit about the pills if we can. >> okay. >> and you've already testified, as have other people, that you were still able to function as a lawyer over the years despite the pills that you were using. is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and you were able of course during this period of time t