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tv   Fox News Live  FOX News  March 4, 2023 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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the debate nationwide. >> thank you all. if you have your own hit or miss, tweet us at jer on fnc. that's it for this week's show. thanks to my panel and especially all of you for watching. i am paul gigot, hope to see you here next week. >> convicted killer alex murdaugh has a new look and new address. new mug shot showing the disbarred attorney with his head shaven. sporting a yellow prison jumpsuit. he's booked in a south carolina facility where he will spend the next two months before he's placed in a maximum security prison for the rest of his life. hello, welcome to a brand-new hour of fox news live, i am arthel neville. eric: i am eric shawn. new look one day after the judge handed in two consecutive life
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sentences. for the murders of his wife, maggie and son, paul. the jurors speaking out to fox news about deliberations setting him behind bars for life and the evidence he says finally sealed his fate. charles watson live with the latest on the proceedings. >> good afternoon, alex murdaugh will spend the next 40 plus days at south carolina's kirkland receiving evaluation center in columbia south carolina. the maximum-security facility that houses some of the most dangerous violent criminals in the group that murdaugh is now part of. the south carolina department of corrections says it will run tests on him as well as assessment to hold an education before determining which penitentiary it will assign him to. it's quite a fall from grace for the 54-year-old disgrace attorney whose serving two life sentences after a jury quickly
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found him guilty of not only killing his wife, maggie but their son, paul as well on the family's property in 2021. during sentencing friday the judge was frank and saying the evidence against murdaugh was overwhelming and describing him as deceitful from start to finish. that said, he stuck with his talking points and said it was the jury that it wrong. >> when i lied, i continued to lie. >> the question is, when will that end? >> i respect this court, i am innocent. i've never under any circumstances hurt my wife maggie and i would never under any circumstances hurt my son, paul paul. >> not long after he was sentenced, murdaugh's attorney said they will file the news and try to get the conviction overturned. they said their client never had
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a chance once the judge allowed his financial crimes and as evidence but one juror, it's not what and it. number 530, a 22-year-old named james asked that his last name be withheld, he says it was actually the video evidence of murdaugh at the crime scene moments before the murders that convinced everyone of his guilt. james tells fox digital quote we were all pretty sure we knew what had happened and we knew who pulled the trigger and he goes on to say we pray together, we prayed before we went in, we prayed before we came out to get the verdict, that was a huge factor in us being able to sit comfortably with our decision and interesting points in the interview with fox digital is the fact that they went to the they were better able to understand what happened with
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the shootings that night. the defense asked the judge the jurors be able to go to the property and it didn't look as it helped murdaugh. >> it seems like it backfired. murdaugh father, grandfather, they are prosecutors, they sought the death penalty in the same courtroom against convicted murderers about 30 times, that's something this murdaugh is spared. charles, thank you. arthel: all right. to the border now. a group of republican senators visiting southern border, a firsthand look at the challenges law enforcement is facing as mexican cartels continue to smuggle people and drugs into the u.s. one center calling the migrant crisis a boat self-inflicted wound. matt then is live at the border in mission texas with the la latest. >> those republican senators from around the country came here to the southern border instead they had to see it in person and they are urging the
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president and the border czar vice president kamala harris to come here for more than just a few hours. >> i urge president biden to come down and truly see it. his first two years of his presidency he spent only three hours here. the first two months that i've been sworn into office, i've been here three times. that's because i know this is one of the greatest crisis faces our nation. it's not only a humanitarian crisis, it's a national security crisis, it's both. >> now here at the border week after week, we see the links human smugglers and migrants will go to include this jaw-dropping video of u.s. route 281, a human smuggler in a work truck marks computer diagnostics leads texas dps on high-speed chase into the thick brush in the dark of night. the driver and the ramming into a fast bails out eight illegal
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migrants apprehended. in these pictures, migrants hiding beneath brush and smashed tv and uncovered trailer attached to a car. they were discovered during a traffic stop. female driver is facing five counts of human smuggling. in december we saw a record high 300,000 migrant encounters at the border. that dropped from about half, 150,000 in february so it will be interesting to see if that was a seasonal decline or a bigger picture here in the coming months and numbers continue to drop or if as the weather warms up, numbers spike. arthel: live at the border, matt finn, thank you, that's. eric: the crisis continues to overwhelm communities and put more pressure on the already overburdened authorities, what comes next? tenet christopher with texas department of public safety, thank you for joining us. you are on the front lines, first the senate visit. you think they got in eiffel could return to washington and it could energize congress to take any meaningful action?
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>> of course anytime you have a visit with any political official or lawmaker at the border, it's always official because it exposes the reality we face as a law enforcement also, those who live along the border what they are seeing and facing everyday so it is beneficial so they can see in place and hopefully put pressure on the federal government but also was the end result is the question though all these visits in the past two years, ready to see action now. we seek numbers in a slight crime generate an aaa for anticipating the numbers to increase especially spring and summer which is typical the past two years so with these visits we need to see action, we need both parties come together and put a plan and strategy in place for mass migration we are seeing but most important, the public safety aspect, drugs and criminals coming across our border so that's what we need to look at and what we are looking
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forward to so we hope and also was important is we get to highlight the work men and women of texas dps are doing especially on the front lines ever since the border crisis started in march of 2021 so it's always official to us to show what the state is doing and how we take on the burning and the coming future as well border operations. >> you talk about a plan and strategy, what type of plan, what strategy specifically would you like to see out of washington to try to stop this flow? >> i want to touch on, we talk with the federal government and they were able to decrease flow of venezuelans across the border. that did work some time but you have to look at an uptick in chinese nationals which we've never seen before as well and an uptick in illegal crossing of the northern border so it's not just impacting the southern borders, impacting northern and coastal borders as well so they need to put a plan in place and what i mean by that and border patrol agents and everyone has said is a simple fix --
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reinstate remain in mexico policy and catch and release and start the border wall construction that will buy time and alleviate pressure and flow of people coming across especially those who live along the border and then you can come together both parties and have a long-term solution but in the meantime we need to stop the drugs coming across especially fentanyl and target the criminal organizations operating both in the u.s. and mexico. eric: you are seizing a tremendous amount of drugs, great news but you also mention catch and release and stopping the border. two weeks ago they set up a new policy which they said you cross the border illegally seeking asylum, they will immediately deport you. you have to apply at a third country. do you think this should be enforced, do think the administration was forced to put them in this place to get a little tougher? >> i think it remains to be seen, too early to see.
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i can tell you we are starting to see families and children snuggled in vehicles which we would never see before because typically any family turn themselves in voluntarily to law enforcement or patrol national guard but now we see families and children snuggled in cars during high-speed chases. an incident yesterday we were helping border patrol, two children, a 4-year-old and an 11-year-old left in an orange orchard by themselves and we were able to reunite them with their mother but we seek children victimized not just in terms of coming across the border, also the treacherous journey but in vehicles. eric: why the change, we saw flows of families who were told just give yourself up, cumin, get on the bus, why the change suddenly smuggle them? >> i believe the cbp app, is also families don't want to wait, they are getting desperate and frustrated having to wait. there is which is, it's not
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working to what they expect as far as what they see something that has a lot to do with it and criminal organizations in mexico the way they operate, they have messaging to get the families, liberty to cross the border because that is their money maker so they will do what ever they can and change tactics based on what we are doing in the federal government, it will not stop them and that's why we are seeing the increase in families and children snuggled across the border which we would never see before but it's unfortunate especially not going into spring and summer when we see normally tragic deaths among illegal immigrants so we are trying to put a plan in place at least on the state side to prevent that but it remains to be seen the temporary rules the federal government has put in place and make any significant change and protect the lives of immigrants coming across. eric: good news, numbers down 40% from the month before but potentially seasonal and we will see it taking up. thank you and thank the texas dps for all the work. of course the border crisis
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extends beyond the southern states. lieutenant mentioned he talked about the northern border, we are going to talk to councilman joe later in our newscast about the flow of migrants from southern border into the big apple and how much it costs, 30,000 migrants so far. joe pirelli coming up. arthel: thank you. at least ten people have died after powerful coast-to-coast winter storms blasted the south and midwest this week. people in california left to dig out from record snowfall and lizard conditions. overall more than 12 states expected to see heavy snow, strong wind and icy conditions. fox weather meteorologist adam talked with a live look at what's still to come. it's not over, yet is it? >> no, we get getting round after round after round. one of the big ones you are talking about across the mid
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midwest, continuing to check today still a couple of winter weather advisories, winter storm warnings in interior new england running up to maine but they've seen a ton of snow up to waist deep and portions of maine. we are going on the tail end, back side of this but a little more snow currently rolling out and these are snowfall totals and this is new hampshire the last three to four hours but widespread up over a foot as high as 16 inches of total snowfall. probably the best ski weekend we seen the entire year for the northeast, it's windy on the backside but finally a really big snow and temperatures cold enough to keep the snow on the ground for a little while but it's not over because we seen round after round off the west coast and here's more winter storm colors across the west, early california stretching pacific northwest and these systems along the coast mostly a rainmaker but as soon as you get elevation, it becomes snow and this will continue to lift up into the northeast and northwest
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and eventually into the northern plains. this is snow on the way and you see pinks and purples, several feet of snow will be lifting up across the region and a lot of spot in the west getting several hundred times% of where we typically see this time of year so it's wintry for the folks at west. arthel: so, no hope for early spring? >> not for them anyway. it stays mostly mild on the east coast so. arthel: all right, adam klotz, thank you very much. >> california government gets newsom and icy response for critics. he decided to leave his state from personal travel, californians are left digging out from the snowfall after that storm. christina coleman lived in los angeles with the latest on the governor. >> that's right, unclear why governor gavin newsom left the state this week while californians literally dig her weight out of the weather
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related emergency. the move sparked quick backlash in a tweet thursday, republican congressman kevin kiley said californians are trapped in their homes without power, more storms on the way and governor newsom is just left the state for personal travel. the back to back winter storms buried homes and businesses under several feet of snow in the mountains and san benito county, 60 miles east of los angeles we spoke to a woman this morning who says she's been trapped by the snow in the area with her family since monday. she says they can walk into town for feed and barbara can drive a car because is blocked by the snow. she questions why the governor left california during this critical time. >> kind of ridiculous, we are the ones in an emergency unless he has another emergency or something going on, his focus should be on getting locals the support we need. luckily we are okay but there's been quite a few people trapped in their homes, running out of
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food. houses have been collapsing. >> we reached out to the governor's office for a response to the criticism. we are waiting to hear back. governor newsom cleared a state of emergency and 13 counties dealt with disaster relief. some trapped residents reported running out of supplies like food, water and medication. >> the enormity of this event is are to comprehend. we are thinking we are in southern california yet we have had inundation all that has really generated severe amount of anxiety, frustration and difficulty, especially to the victims and those trapped in their own home. >> the national guard has been delivering supplies to hard-to-reach homes. it's unclear exactly how many residents are stranded in the mountains at this time. eric: we will see when the governor gets back.
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christina, thank you. arthel. arthel: eric and christina, fox news alert as at least one person was killed after a gas tanker crashed and exploded today in maryland. our affiliate in washington reports the tanker crashed in the town of frederick about 50 miles west of baltimore. it is unclear what led up to the crash but it appears several vehicles were involved. the crash ignited a huge fireball and damaged at least one nearby home. emergency responders are still cleaning up the scene, lived look now from our affiliate. no word yet if anyone else was hurt. eric: the white house way tough new crackdown on china by targeting tank industry. some say we should have done it five or ten years ago. tensions are high between washington and beijing, could there be more fall out over this? john bussey on china next. ♪
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biden administration energy policy memo raising questions in washington. it acknowledged charging also fuel companies less in fees to
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drill off alaska. that would likely mean greater energy security but the memo recommended keeping the fees high to fight climate change. the white house announced the president has a cancerous le lesion, removed from his chest last month. lucas tomlinson with the latest on that, theory common urging people to get it checked. what's the latest? >> first this week the lack of congressional delegation came to the white house to ask for the biden to approve massive oil and gas project off the coast of alaska one day before the leaked memo. earlier lawmakers reacted to the news. >> they have an agenda and the agenda is the green new deal agenda and it doesn't involve oil and gas, it involves batteries and things we depend on from china. >> we need to make sure we moved as aggressively and rapidly as we can toward energy independence and renewable energies at the same time.
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>> officials say the internal memo is posted accidentally by the interior department showing biden administration recommending higher royalty fees on oil and gas permits off the coast of alaska despite its own internal assessment saying lower fees would help attract investment and work toward energy independence. the biden administration favored higher fees because according to the memo, constitute the most reasonable balancing environmental economic factors from the american public. senate energy committee chairman joe manchin was fired up about this leaked memo and told colleagues at fox digital who first reported this," makes it crystal clear that the administration is literally putting radical climate agenda ahead of the needs of the american and people of alaska in the united states. now the medical news he mentioned off the top, president biden had her sonoma removed from his chest last month but the white house didn't make the announcement of the biopsy until yesterday. according to fox news contributor doctor nicole
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sapphire, basal cell carcinoma is the most common form of skin cancer, rarely fatal she says that can spread quickly and surgery is important which we are told is what happened last month when president biden went to his annual physical at walter reed. eric: love the president is okay. thank you. arthel: >> the prc's military fusion strategy and stated intentions for global dominance and artificial intelligence are real. unfortunately many of the powerful computer chips that come in consumer goods can be the foundation of systems for mass surveillance or modeling and development of nuclear missiles and other weapons. arthel: that is alan undersecretary of commerce for industry and security. speaking at a house hearing this week about the surveillance threat from china. this is the biden administration
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takes bold steps to guard u.s. tech from being manipulated by beijing. the administration is reportedly considering a move to prohibit u.s. investment in certain chinese sectors along with a ban on u.s. companies exporting computer chips to telecom giant wall way. john bussey is here, associate editor for the "wall street journal" and fox news contributor. want to get to, let's start with restrictions on investments in china. what does that entail, how would it work? >> is coming at it from a couple of angles. as a piece on this on wsj.com right now. the administration is looking at computer chips, semiconductors that could be of value to the chinese military. chips that might be used from qualcomm or intel by wall way, the telecommunications acumen munication but the united states is worried possibly using telecom equipment to spy on
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countries abroad. the micro sense, is looking at specific industries that might benefit china treasury department and congress department is looking at setting up a new regulatory system that looks at u.s. investment in china more broadly in quantum computing and artificial intelligence and dual use practices the could be used by the chinese military. it wants to examine this not just company investment but perhaps private equity, adventure kat to make sure the u.s. isn't funding china's ability to exert its power against the united states, against its companies and national security of the united states. arthel: when you talk about national security the united states, cannot before so if the u.s. revokes export licenses,
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how would they monitor and enforce these restrictions? >> this is part of what commerce and treasury is looking at. this mechanism called cvs, treasury department looks at investments by companies and nations abroad into the united states, make sure they don't get into something of national security. now it will be the other direction so they want to set up a system that does many things, one is to survey this landscape, make sure tech isn't getting to china that shouldn't be getting to china. gather data in general and make sure it's national security and not competition. there will be a balance in the want to make sure competition happens between chinese and american, they don't want to forgo u.s. national security and they want to make sure companies in the u.s. don't lose, they shouldn't lose by restricting
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them from selling to china. arthel: that's why i want to jump in, what is that boomerang effect on u.s. businesses? then talk about the trickle-down effect, impact on trade with china, supply chain and ultimately consumer impact. >> revenue companies is hugely important, they have to innovate the next generation of product saying be careful what you wish for. if you restrict us too much, you won't see the innovation but going into the break, eric mentioned some people are saying this should have happened five, ten years ago with as much more oversight about what we give china in terms of technology. china has stolen technology from the united states but a lot of companies have given it as well to get a foothold in the chinese market. they handed over american patrimony so the treasury department and commerce wants to
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put, have surveillance of that and careful consideration of that. something that probably should have started about 20 years ago and it will affect supply ch chains. there will be certain things that don't get to china anymore under this but presumably the sources of the product will get into the u.s. market from other places including g7 companies countries the u.s. wants to impose similar restrictions on china. arthel: 20 years ago this sleepy dragon we've been talking about for all those years and now we see the fire coming out of the mouth. john bussey, thank you very much. eric: well said. nearly $5 million a day, 5 million. that's new york city. the shelling out to house and feed migrants they say calls for a
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joe pirelli on that as fox news live continues. ♪
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staggering numbers from new york city spending on migrant crisis. the big apple shelling out nearly $5 million a day to house and feed asylum seekers. the number is expected to skyrocket to a total of $4.2 billion by june of 2024. the city does not get much needed help from the biden administration, is bringing new york city councilman joe pirelli, councilman. new yorkers, it seems like they are paying the tab and there's no end in sight. >> they are paying the tab all right. i'm glad wrinkly that we are
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being a bit more transparent how much all of this is costing but to give a comparison, $5 million a day is about what we pay on our entire sanitation department parks department in the city of 8.8 million people so this is not just a drop in the bucket, it's more than most large american cities have in their entire annual budget we are forced to pay the tab because joe biden is not offering us any compensation or taking over essentially federal duties and there's no end in sight because he refuses to take action at the border and re- implement policies that prevent people from coming here. eric: about 30,000 migrants they said. the cost of the city is $363 a day to house and feed them and we saw video of the row hotel in times square, a great tourist beautiful hotel but these people are being put up. >> they are taking over certain parts of manhattan, taking over complete blocks of new york city
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time to time. i give credit to a lot of decent people in our department of education and other agencies around the city will have empathy and they are treating them nicely but the cost is what the problem is for new yorkers. if the biden administration wants to take over federal duties, why don't we start doing air traffic control over the state department that the problem, this should fall on the federal government to ensure these people can't come here or they come through a regulated process. eric: does the texas governor greg abbott have? can they sue texas or abbott for sending buses to new york city? some would say it is his fault. >> i would say is mayor adams had the ability to withstand to sue governor abbott, he probably would have but i can only empathize with the people of texas. if we deal with this problem at this dollar amount with 30,000 people currently in the system, i can only imagine what the
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crisis, the impact they are having on small cities around the border. texas and arizona and new mexico and elsewhere, that's really where i hope media attention is focused on because it has to be having a similar impact on budgets there. eric: that's what governor abbott and officials say, the reason for the buses is to show other cities not on the border and other states, the impact of the border crisis of the southern border now. the good news, crime in new york city, the good news is crime is down according to the nypd. let me review the stats that came out a couple of days ago. murder down 27% as you can see rate 22% and burglary down. encouraging news, why do you think councilman, and store owners and democratic politicians banding together to get tougher on crime? >> we have a right to criticize numbers when they went up and placed blame on politicians in
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charge and the number going down are the responsibly and reaction to the great police department doing good work let's be clear you mentioned politicians, i think we are seeing the pendulum swinging back the other way. you have democratic lawmakers who two years ago for touting bail reform and raise the age. now they introduce legislation to raise penalties on folks. the city council we had the split of progressive caucus because half the members decided they no longer to be part of defining the police so is a clear sign the tide is changing. eric: mentioned that again so folks around the country understand. a progressive caucus in the new york city council and they put out there charter or principles, defending -- defunding the police? have the progressive members of the caucus quit because of that? >> correct. half the members who are progressive democrats on a number of issues, many of them
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are decent people, they decided they can't any longer back the policies that are going to hamstring our police and defend our police. crime is a real problem and if progressives want to be to the left on so many issues, that's wonderful but you finally getting pushback from their constituencies whether they are where i live on staten island or the upper west side, people are sick and tired of criminals and people are sick and tired of politicians whose priority seems to be the criminals and not the law abiding people will occupy all of new york city. eric: too democratic officials and state senator have a bill increasing first-time felonies one year to up to four years so some are getting the message. new york city republican councilman joe pirelli who represents the great borough of staten island, good to see you. thank you. >> thanks, eric. arthel: thank you, house republicans lost an
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investigation into a horrific murder last year, a woman strangled to death if the suspect a teenager who belonged to the gang ms 13. emmanuel has more. >> she loved church, she loved god. >> kayla hamilton was 20 years old, the young woman with autism living in independent life. brutally strangled and raped in her own bedroom. >> it could have been anybody's child, anybody's daughter. she wasn't doing anything wrong, just living her life going to work. >> 17-year-old illegal immigrants suspected ties to the ms 13 gang has been charged with crimes and tried as an adult now two prominent republicans house judiciary chairman jim jordan and subcommittee chairman tom mcclintock are demanding answers from two biden a fenestration cabinet secretaries. writing to alejandra mayorkas have home and security quote terminal aliens and gang members
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exploit the immigration system to harm americans. authorities say the suspect was stopped by border patrol in rio grande, texas a year ago and transferred to frederick, maryland. jordan mcclintock wrote to help consumers with services obvious becerra since hhs runs an office of refugee resettlement, the biden administration's open border policies created full abilities criminal aliens and gang members exploit to the detriment of american citizens. kayla's mother's expression frustration because as a teenager, the suspects identity is protected and if convicted, he could one day be eligible for parole. she argues is such a vicious crime was committed at a young age, there's no telling what he's capable of as an adult. in washington, mike emanuel, fox news. eric: the texas state republican party voted to censor one of its own.
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congressman tony gonzales. comes after the two terms lawmaker broke with the party to support new gun safety laws there after the uvalde school shooting in his district. gonzales is angry the gop. the government to defend same-sex marriage and opposing sweep house immigration proposal. it allows state republicans to spend money and remind primary voters about the rebuke if he does indeed seek reelection. arthel: the new nuclear threat from north korea after the u.s. and south korea make plans for massive military drills. details for you on that coming up next. ♪
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kim young moon is at it again, north korea making new threats after the announcement the u.s. and south korea would conduct large-scale military exercises this month. the regime calling for an end to the drills before they spiral
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out of control. ryan lived in london with more on this. >> tough talk from north korea with the foreign ministry saying the korean peninsula the biggest powder cake and dating ground for military exercises, something north korea says is simply can't tolerate. this most recent threat from north korea following an announcement from the united states and south korea yesterday saying they plan to conduct large-scale military exercises a week from this monday to strengthen their defensive posture in the south and the face of what they call north korean aggression. north korea says the wargames are evidence they are bent on regime change in north korea and calling on you and ten minutes ago to stop them. though not sure how far that goes. meanwhile, concern about growing food crisis north korea, a big
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one in the 2000's but there are some forecasting this time could be up as bad as the famine in the 1990s when hundreds of north koreans are thought to have starved to death. as for north korea's own weapons program, north koreans today and the statement from the foreign ministry saying is just a test reacting in the balance of power in the region. eric: in london, thank you. arthel: as you know, is the final day of seatback and a new hole shows who attendees want is there republican nominee in 2024. live from the conference up next. ♪
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today is the final day of seatback. who's who of republicans rallying supporters for what could be a long grinding primary race. preferred front runner has been taken but still waiting to hear the results. mark meredith lived at the conference in maryland. when will we know the winner? >> good afternoon, they are about an ounce right now so we will look to see who it's going to be but i have a good idea, we've been here the last several days, a lot of the speakers are here are related to the former president or the administration or longtime supporters, america first agenda. that brought out the same supporters here behind me.
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it's kept the 2024 candidates away, including rhonda sanders, former president mike pence and dave declared candidacy and many thought to be potential candidates going forward. they decided to go to florida for a fundraiser and it was interesting a lot of the former president waiting to he wasn't invited but call it done. i will be curious once he trait takes the podium if he talks about the potential rival in the race. while he was here, we did hear from former un ambassador nikki haley, 2024 candidate herself. she spoke out on the stage, the audience gave her a perception, standing ovation. some pointing out the crowds are not as large as tonight when trump is in but it's an event seems to be tailored toward the trump audience. so many people said they are solely to go here to see him and speakers wanted to hear from the
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trump apparatus in campaign but you referenced it here a second ago, this will go well beyond cpac, along bruising primary, the truck will be going to iowa my essentially one more than one week from monday and we know rhonda sanders making a trip to iowa next week as well. arthel: i heard them talk behind you, have they announced it yet? >> let me turn around and see if i can find out, they're going side-by-side, i'm sure there are 35 slides or something. looks like they will probably save the last result for the nominee, i'll let you know when they get the results. arthel: you will tell us later, thank you very much. we will have more news after this.
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cooks university of fort lauderdale baseball player makes a brave save off the field. caleb wasn't practicing when his team -- practicing with his team when they saw a car crash in a powerful by their field for the driver was unconscious so they pulled -- broke the window and pulled him out as flames started to engulf the car. caleb said he thanks he was meant to be there. quickset happened exactly how it
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was supposed to happen. jesus put me in those other people in that situation and i may have saved his life. >> amen. the driver's family says he had a medical episode that caused him to lose control. the drivers now recovering in the hospital. that is amazing. quickset is just wonderful, congratulations to caleb. and his teammates. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> hello everyone i am alicia cooney along with charlie hurt, cap and. welcome to the bexar to show self-described democratic socialist bernie sanders defending biden student loan handout as the supreme court considers the constitutionality of biden's plan. the senator is adamant the loan cancellation was some estimates but the cost it more than $400 billion to taxpayers is not

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